Search found 357 matches
- Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:20 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:08 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I'm shocked. Mainly that Jack Chick was still alive. I had no idea.Sunder wrote:Jack Chick died.
- Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:44 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The odious Shiv provides some unsurprising insight into the nature of their character: ...I would sacrifice really cute animals to get the money to pay for some of these post-secondary programs that I cannot afford, and likely won’t afford for another decade if I’m lucky... https://web.archive.org/...
- Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:36 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
This looks, basically, like assault to me, but it protects bicycles so The Guardian is gushing about it: Bike lock developed that makes thieves immediately vomit https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/oct/21/bike-lock-developed-that-makes-thieves-immediately-vomit Pussies. http://www.cnn.com...
- Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:04 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:16 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:46 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
This is rape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nFG3dYjbcQ Jeez what a self entitled idiot. Apparently she is a "free person of Earth" or summat but doesn't have to obey the law of the country she's in. All rights but no responsibilities about sums it up. And that voice. I thought it was Laurie Penn...
- Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:55 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Holy shit! I'd never heard of Eolo Perfido before. Thanks for that.Shatterface wrote:https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... 605368.jpgBhurzum wrote:Did somebody mention Oolon?
- Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:38 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
That makes sense. The unsecured(?!?) cars on the deck and that listing cruise ship looked dangerous as hell.free thoughtpolice wrote:I'm guess it was anchored further out and the anchor dragged or it lost power?Why did he have his yacht in the breakers?
- Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:11 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Why did he have his yacht in the breakers?free thoughtpolice wrote:
Some of those looked fun.
- Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:26 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I don't have to tolerate your fat-shaming.Billie from Ockham wrote:Fuck you for writing in one sentence what took me three paragraphs. If you don't help the 0s and 1s to get exercise, they'll get fat and lazy.Mr. X, Indeed wrote:By this, no one who has been falsely accused has been convicted. The Innocence Project might disagree.
- Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:44 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
YOUR MOVE, CREEP. I wonder how we know exactly how many unreported rapes there are? I've no doubt it happens, but arguments based on this kind of thing: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2bG5K3IUAAX9li.jpg:large Seem a bit more political than factual... By this, no one who has been falsely accused has b...
- Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:00 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:58 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
There are numerous people selling half of a single cuff link on Ebay right now. Someone will consider the seed a value add.feathers wrote:But his couch is now full of seed. Try to put that up on Ebay.
- Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:03 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
My third eye loved potato chips and was convinced the cops were about to bust in at any second. I think I got a raw deal.sp0tlight wrote:http://i.imgur.com/e8FmSvL.png
Smoke weed, turn black, open third eye. I love the intersection of woo and black supremacy.
- Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:28 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
A decent short history of MARTA:comhcinc wrote:Yeah I am still trying to get a grasp on the politics of the area but I can say I would use MARTA if it was in Cobb.
http://www.atlantamagazine.com/great-re ... portation/
- Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:45 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The stadium in Cobb could be a traffic disaster, so at least that will be fun to watch. If it wasn't for some trees I could see the stadium from my balcony. This area is already such a clusterfuck I don't really think that it can really make it that much worst. It's a shame Cobb is terrified of MAR...
- Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:27 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Do you think Caine is a Redskins fan? Cleveland Indians or Atlanta Braves? I heard a story once on NPR a couple years back and I have never been able to find it again. Anyway it was about some Bay area "native peoples" who was upset with the Redskin name. The guy interview sounded like Woody Allen ...
- Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:14 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:44 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I picture Skepticon being a bit more awkward.Really? wrote:Looks like footage from a Skepticon afterparty.
- Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:57 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
First of all, I will remove a couple of questions that not really questions. 2. (hbomberguy) What is it with you people and skulls? 6. (hbomberguy) No seriously, what is it with you people and skulls? They're for the sexy rituals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUCmQiuPpJI I mean creepy...and sexy.
- Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:21 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I ... i just can't even ... https://twitter.com/davecribb/status/781795967821606912 Fake http://www.snopes.com/navy-raccoon-breathalyzer/ Snopes should apologize for calling a noncom an officer several times in the article. I've never met a petty officer who would tolerate that shit. But, yeah, if ...
- Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:45 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Boner mistake expert Richard Carrier is trying to get verified on Twitter. https://twitter.com/RichardCCarrier/status/781914219734265857 How can he not figure that out? Photocopy your drivers license. Take a photo of that. Print out the photo and then scan it. Then you have a jpeg that you can send...
- Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:55 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Can we just cover everything in the world with bubble wrap for these people and be done with it? FFS, shouldn't mental health advocates be out advocating for, i don't know, maybe better funding and treatment for the mentally ill. I'm sure that fucker on the street corner having a long conversation ...
- Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:48 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Feels like an 80's flashback. I wonder how the SJW 'community' will take to their strange new bedfellows in the Moral Majority / Religious Right. No bad tactics and all that... Fuck Censorship...Dye Pajamas. Maybe closer to Tipper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNT4DikDdQw Moral panics are often ...
- Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:01 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Knott’s Berry Farm and its parent company, Cedar Fair, announced Tuesday that they are shutting down the Halloween attraction Fear VR after the feature caused concern among mental health advocates, including Saddleback pastor Rick Warren and his wife, Kay, who sent an email to the park Tuesday. Men...
- Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:27 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
A Walmart bakery south of Atlanta refuses to make a "Blue Lives Matter" cake. http://www.cbs46.com/story/33187680/walmart-apologizes-for-failure-to-make-racist-cake-for-police-officer http://www.cbs46.com/story/33232233/woman-who-ordered-racist-cake-from-walmart-speaks-out So there is this, the Conf...
- Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:16 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Wow. I did not know the main cannon for the A10 Warthog was this big: http://3uqfoj8rqn912yhyb3z5mgju.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg The entire plane is basically designed around making this cannon fit into the airframe. It's not just a cannon, it's a 7...
- Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:10 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Chaos. Always root for chaos. It's usually more entertaining.deLurch wrote:Dammit. I don't know who to root for.
- Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:07 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
OK. Assault, Libel, and Slander is just a catch-all category for lawsuits. Carrier isn't accusing anyone of assault. My mistake. Isn't "Assault" one of those quirky legal terms where threatening to physically harm someone counts as assault? And given Lauren was sexually involved with Carrier, there...
- Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:53 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
From Meyers: http://i.imgur.com/yiUQXZ1.png Holy shit: https://dockets.justia.com/docket/ohio/ohsdce/2:2016cv00906/196941 Plaintiff: Richard Carrier Defendant: FreethoughtBlogs Network, Paul Z Myers, Orbit, Stephanie Zvan, Skepticon, Inc., Lauren Lane and Amy Frank-Skiba Case Number: 2:2016cv00906 ...
- Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:37 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
From Meyers: http://i.imgur.com/yiUQXZ1.png Holy shit: https://dockets.justia.com/docket/ohio/ohsdce/2:2016cv00906/196941 Plaintiff: Richard Carrier Defendant: FreethoughtBlogs Network, Paul Z Myers, Orbit, Stephanie Zvan, Skepticon, Inc., Lauren Lane and Amy Frank-Skiba Case Number: 2:2016cv00906 ...
- Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:43 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
A bit tired and going to be bed, but just to let you all know: it's a done deal, I'm married. Congrats. Don't do anything I wouldn't do. Except get married of course...and maybe have some kids if you want them...or buy a house if you're interested. Actually, you're probably fine doing lots of thing...
- Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:34 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Meh. They can just add another page to my file.Lsuoma wrote:Ruh-roh!!
- Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:15 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:06 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The M&M's /Skittles example actually plays better for Trumps point than for feminists. When you take in refugees, you're getting literally unvetted handfuls. Who really knows what you're going to end up with. Thats not really true, at least in the US. There is actually quite a vetting process to ge...
- Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:06 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The M&M's /Skittles example actually plays better for Trumps point than for feminists. When you take in refugees, you're getting literally unvetted handfuls. Who really knows what you're going to end up with. Thats not really true, at least in the US. There is actually quite a vetting process to ge...
- Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:05 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The M&M's /Skittles example actually plays better for Trumps point than for feminists. When you take in refugees, you're getting literally unvetted handfuls. Who really knows what you're going to end up with. Thats not really true, at least in the US. There is actually quite a vetting process to ge...
- Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:59 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Good PR and photo op makes for good headlines and good propaganda for politicians who want to be re-elected. Long-term reforms take time, effort and money and don't look good on the media, at least not enough to be of any use for a political campaign. It's the same thing with the SJWs and the SJW-f...
- Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:47 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
As for walking beats again it all depends. For example the county I use to live in is 600 square miles. It makes no sense to some guy walk anywhere. Probably not, but would that work with downtowns of bigger cities? The PD in a lot of cities is understaffed and beat cops are one of the first things...
- Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:40 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I saw this in a tweet. It's one of those things that make me wonder what's really going on. In April, Jody Allard wrote about her son, who seems to be determined to kill himself. http://imgur.com/GTAe1LQ.jpg I Knew My Son Was Depressed, But I Didn't Know He Wanted to Die Then in September she wrote...
- Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:44 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
feathers wrote:And with his daughter in a film.Kirbmarc wrote:Serge Gainsbourg looked like an ape and he had sex with Brigitte Bardot, one of the most beautiful women of her time.
But only after he'd done Jane Birkin.
- Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:29 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
But, but, but, Silverman has done great out-reach. He went to CPAC, for FSM's sake. Truth is I just don't give a fuck about the national organizations, conventions, meet-ups, etc. anymore. The SJWs have, essentially, ruined what could have been a thriving community with their politics of hate and b...
- Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:39 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The problem with supporting Trump under the assumption that at the very least he will shake up the status quo is Trump's own record. When, exactly, has he delivered on any of his promises? He just wants the prize, after that it will be his advisors in charge while he leverages his brand. Yeah, if e...
- Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:36 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Some videos take prior to that chick going off on Nicholas Christakis at Yale last year. http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/15/watch-a-mob-of-yale-students-bully-a-professor-who-hurt-their-feelings/?ref=yfp Imagine a world run by those zeebs! Christ, I'm glad I don't move around in the company of cun...
- Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:17 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
5 button sleeve. Fashion forward and shit.Service Dog wrote:http://i.imgur.com/0fjmeCS.png
- Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:34 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
My Bayesian analysis reveals a 99.87% chance that Carrier didn't learn his lesson: https://twitter.com/RichardCCarrier/status/774684750149775360 If anyone wants to bring some 16 y/o Lagavulin, I'll be happy to drink it. Learn some fucking manners. I'd suggest Carrier review Wisconsin statutes befor...
- Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:23 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
If anyone wants to bring some 16 y/o Lagavulin, I'll be happy to drink it. Learn some fucking manners.Really? wrote:My Bayesian analysis reveals a 99.87% chance that Carrier didn't learn his lesson:
- Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:03 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I'm finding this a far more concerning debate. Porn or art. The more I stare at it the more I tend to the former. Yet the French lingo demands it be high culture. So confused. :geek: https://twitter.com/artpicschannel/status/769823109549584384 Yet another nude based on his wife, Georgette. Somethin...
- Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:21 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Now, relevant to my country (because right now it seems to be close to the focus of this whole discussion): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France I visited a friend in Paris within a couple of weeks of the RER bombing in '95. I had some ridiculous haircut so my head wa...
- Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:18 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I mean, shit, Im a triple posting git. we're doomed. That's OK. The second time, I enjoyed the feeling of STEM smugness you engender even more! I forgot to mention my supervisor's workaround: She promised the fashion label people that two "good looking guys in suits" would be standing by the contra...
- Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:43 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
https://www.spreaker.com/user/smalleyandhyso/260-pz-myers-vs-david-smalley?autoplay=1&clickid=wu2X5TRAKUxxTF7Q2czKkQwLUkkwXvyNUUTPwI0&irpid=10078&sharedid=&mp_value1= I'm struck by how rude and passive-aggressive PZ was. That exasperated sigh whenever David Smalley said something he didn't like was...
- Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:09 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
- Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:08 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Biggest piece of shit car I ever had was a 1982 Dodge Omni 024 hatchback. It was horribly engineered and the carburetor would suck up oil vapors, thereby clogging it up. I had to take it in almost weekly to get the carb cleaned out, but even that didn't stop the tendency to stall at every red light...
- Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:10 am
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Given Pizzy's penchant for trashing every Sci fi. Movie he's ever commented on, I don't get the feeling he was ever a real Trek fan. Probably a bit of a poser to get along with the social group he landed in. You almost get the feeling that he despises the childish entertainment habits of his chosen...
- Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:22 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
PZ has a problem talking to people on the "Devils Instrument"? Poor boy needs another kiss. What is it with the phone calls? I give my phone number to friends and family. The last thing I want is The Amazing Atheist to give me a ring so we can work out our differences, as if a phone call would fix ...
- Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:13 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Instead of PREmenstrual syndrome, it's NOmenstrual syndrome. I'm an old fuck now and no longer get periods. Ohh, poor girl, here are some: . . . . . . . that was cheesy, wasn't it? Oh thanks a lot! I'm sending you the bill for a bunch of pads that I never thought I'd have to buy again. :x Just free...
- Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:55 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
[youtube][/youtube]
Oh, ok. I get it.
Oh, ok. I get it.
- Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:09 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
This "beware of feminist men" list is great. :lol: More evidence that feminist women have developed hatred toward all men because of their exposures to feminist men. Who'd a thunk that feminist men are just as big of self centered assholes as feminist women? http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/08/reas...
- Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:05 pm
- Forum: Past Misdeeds
- Topic: The Refuge of the Toads
- Replies: 72028
- Views: 10907631
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Hey, you lovely people. I just woke up from my nap, grabbed my tabled and learned my friend's wife died. Just entered 30s, they had a kid year ago. Last time when I saw her, it was their wedding day. Now, I'm going to visit her for a last time. I'm a cunt of a friend it seems. Who's drinking? Fuck ...