Remain calm and relaxed whenever in close proximity to baboons. This actually applies to all animals. Baboons are far better at reading body language discerning any sign of latent misogyny than we are, and if we come across as threatening, they will become nervous and unpredictable and may be more likely to be aggressive. This is of course easier said than done, as it is obviously not easy to remain calm when you encounter a baboon in your house or car blog or forum! But it is really important to do so. At the very least, when confronted by a baboon, lower your eyes and look at the ground in front of you [and apologise profusely]. This will be less threatening to the baboon than staring directly at it being right or having facts on your side.
The baboon is generally well known for being a pretty vicious little sod when riled up. Of course, I'm talking about the species typical to the environs of Freethought Blogs, and in particular, the troops that frequent the sub-community of Pharyngula. Unlike their offal-arsed cousins known for farting loudly in African bush grottos, however, these particular baboons actually consider themselves civilised by their own lights, and hold it as a virtue that their extreme and frequent displays of aggression are acceptable in at least not being based in sexism, racism, or any -ism you'd care to mention.
Little is known about these creatures, and a casual observer who finds himself in their territory is likely to find him/herself quite shocked by their viciousness. In the interests of scholarly study, and perhaps to serve as a field guide to the unwary, what follows in this thread shall serve as a repository of the extreme threat displays these animals are known to make. And while reading, remember - they probably think they are more decent, empathic beings than you.
So to start with, let's have the eye-watering missive from the Pharygulite Tethys, as seen in PZ Myers' Thunderdome - an ostensibly unmoderated thread where Pharygulite baboons generally go to complain about the lack of trolls and chew-toys to fight with, largely because said trolls and chew-toys have already been banned.
Note to any reader as yet unacquainted with general Freethoughtblogs baboon practice: those most people posting screencaps here will likely supply a link to the orginial quote/post (largely because many slymepitters have the revolutionary idea that people should generally be able to examine context etc., and make up their own minds for themselves) it can be possible that the link no longer functions. This will probably be down to one of the more prominent baboons, such as PZ Myers or Ophelia Benson, using the post in question as a suppository. Ie - the offending post gets 'disappeared' to where the sun don't shine. It's been known to happen.
Nope, no limit on how far back one can go. That said, this isn't intended as a complete guide (frankly, there aren't enough years in a lifetime) - really, it's down to anything anyone feels might be worthy of inclusion here. Or not, as the case may be.
In the mean time, I'm going to hunt down some classic 'Julians'. Gonna be a long night...
Julian. Ah, Julian. An FTB regular who has become quite notable for his inability to find that median point between typically uninteresting Social Justice Warrior rhetoric and explosive expressions of the old ultraviolence. It has led some to speculate that Julian is on some sort of medication or hormonal treatment program, as there is a decidedly Jekyll-and-Hyde quality to his outbursts. One minute he'll be there, squatting listlessly in some FTB comments section, offering the usual banalities as to why other people are a bit shit for not adhering to the baboon brand of social justice, and the next moment -
- well, it's kinda like this. You know how Dr Bruce Banner turns into the Hulk when he gets cross? Well, don't for a minute think that this is what happens with Julian. Largely because Dr Bruce Banner didn't turn into the kind of weedy Internet Commando that makes one think of Kip from Napoleon Dynamite:
That said, for all Julian's lulzworthiness, his violent explosions are pretty nasty, and do at least make you sympathic to the idea of Atheist/Skeptical conferences widely adopting safety and harassment policies - ie, ones that exist solely or in part to prevent Julian from attending.
There have been other reports of Julian's highly disturbing internet outbursts - notably one instance of him wishing he could skateboard over someone's face, and another involving a shotgun to the mouth. Unfortunately, I can't find any links for those - in any case, given Julian's record as shown here, I wouldn't say it was beyond the bounds of reasonable probability that he offered such displays of online...badassery.
In fairness to NikNak Julian, though, he has been pretty quiet on the old ultraviolence front recently, which does lead me to conclude that a suitable narcotic solution has at last been concocted to salve his troubled condition. Nevertheless, Julian remains almost but not quite unrepentant about his past misdemeanors, as this very recent missive shows:
Ah, Spokesgay. AKA, Josh Slocum, the executive director of an organistion involved in protecting consumers' rights as regards funerals; one would think that such a job would require a good grounding in tact, diplomacy and sensitivity, in which case, I can only presume that the 'Official Spokesgay's' general bad-temperedness and habitual nastiness on FTB and Twitter comprises some form of catharsis. Perhaps the sheer amount of privilege he has gets to him - after all, if you've seen his well-fed frame waddling around his plush office in one of those 60 Minutes features, you can surely sympathise with his predicament. All that privilege, making him prone to being inadvertantly insensitive to those less well-off. Perhaps he just vents on FTB and Twitter to get it all out in one big churn, leaving him the very model of socially-moral rectitude at all other times. That said, given the amount of spite he delivers, I can only suppose the rage-tear inducing privilege he has to suffer involves regular lunches of caviar topped with truffle shavings and lard, served by lederhosen-wearing muscle-boy waiters with silver bells hanging off their gonads.
It should be noted that Josh is apparently good friends with Ophelia Benson. Little wonder the poor old dear (Benson) is so jumpy. Word of advice, 'Phelia - if Josh ever recommends you put some lotion on your skin while brandishing the garden hose, run like a mad fucker.
So now we come to Brownian, also known as Anthony K (on account of a doxxing by, er, Anthony K himself) and The Virgin Ian Brown (on account of his endlessly protracted adolescence). Highly regarded by his fellow baboons for his witty and erudite put-downs of the more flamboyantly non-baboon folk, which probably says more about the FTB commentariat than it does anything else, given that said put-downs generally appear to come from the tormented psyche of a stroppy thirteen year old Ritalin addict who is cross because mom has grounded him yet again. Anthony K also has the distinction of being the proud owner of a cat with the world's worst haemhorroid problem:
I'm sure Minnie will be very pleased with derpself, given this subsequent word of advice from Chas:
9 February 2013 at 8:49 am (UTC -6)
If Ben Stiller, Adam Sandler and Jim Carrey were eviscerated
[Just a general heads-up: some of those context-denying rascals at the sl*mep*t are collecting pullquotes indicative of the 'violent fantasies' of FtB commenters. It's some kind of gotcha-hypcrisy thing, as usual. Bullshit but you should know.]
I will sign on enthusiastically to the last two, but Stiller gets a lifetime pass from me for this. ymmv.
Hmmm. 'Context-denying'. As in supplying links to the original posts so that people can check out the context for themselves. Tell me, how does that work again? :lol:
So far, the proferred examples of visceral nastiness have come from the more beta-end baboons of the troop that frequents Freethought Blogs and Pharyngula. However, if the casual observer should think this a seque into some examples of the 'alphas' - such as PZ Myers - then I'd advise you to think again. Because though there are such examples to come, I thought that instead, this might be an opportunity to explore one particularly explosive missive from one particular baboon who is so far lower than even an omega in the pecking order, he can only aspire to be about as effective, interesting and intelligent as a broken vacuum-cleaner nozzle.
I am, of course, talking about one Greg Laden, a testosterone-poisoned female whose utter malevolence combined with unparallelled ineptitude actually does make me wonder if he was grown by aliens as a comedy character for a Sol-System based humourous reality TV show. What follows is a missive he sent to fellow Freethought Blogger Justin Griffiths, whose crime was, apparently, to offer a few tentative thoughts that maybe some aspects of the Slymepit really aren't quite as bad as his cohorts make them out to be.
It should be noted that after this outburst, Greg Laden's blog was removed from the Freethought Blogs network. It was not, however, quite enough to make him persona-non-grata amongst his fellow baboons. In particular, FTB blogger Stephanie Zvan - who indulges Laden in the manner of a shit-shoveller following a terminally dysentric circus elephant around - thought that this outburst was really no big deal at all:
Iâ€™m vaguely amused at how this story has grown. Thatâ€™s the problem with a strict zero-tolerance policy, I guess. The fact that you can get kicked off a blog network for writing the ambiguous colloquialism â€œIâ€™ll kick your assâ€ to a fellow blogger who reads it as a physical threat just isnâ€™t exciting enough. Now we must have multiple threats!!!
Now for a quick detour - into the dank and uninspiring territory that is the Atheism Plus forum.
For the uninitiated, Atheism Plus ostensibly began with a blog post by Freethought blogger and hobo centerfold Jen McCreight, where she lamented at some length as to why skepticism in its current state was shit - because it wasn't into the things she was into - and finished with a rallying cry for a new femini-atheist movement which would actually be a bit more into the things she was into: that is, feminism with some added concern for social justice (particularly if it was about social justice for teh womyns), with some trace elements of atheism and skepticism thrown in. And thus was Atheism Plus born, much to the cheers and decidedly premature self-congratulations of the FTB baboons, including Jen's fellow Freethought blogger Diddy Dickie Carrier, who fell to such paroxysms of nipple-popping joy at the idea that he got a bit 'carried' (see what I did there?) away with himself and inadvertently shat all over the whole thing by going full ablist - even by then a big no-no to the Atheism Plus enthusiasts - and throwing around such epithets as 'retarded' or 'lame' to denigrate those did not share his delight at this bright new dawn for the atheist and skeptical movement*. It was, to say the least, a portentious start.
Subsequently, when the victory party died down and the baboons began to wonder what they would actually have to do to achieve this victory, it's fair to say that Atheism Plus soon fell to being little more than some sorta...thing, which has continued to spasm and twitch rather like a small wart on Greg Laden that wishes it could be free of such an ugly growth. In particular, the Atheism Plus forum has provided much in the way of this spasming and twitching, because it has devolved into quite possibly into the most insane forum on the internet. This isn't really suprising, considering the amount of prominent contributors it drew from the Freethought Blogs baboon troop - such as Setar, for instance, who has a pathological aversion to being a useful member of society, and Flewellyn, a person so utterly devoid of any interesting characteristics that if he stood in front of some magnolia wallpaper, he'd be camouflaged.
And then there is Simpleflower. Not, to the best of my knowledge, a regular Freethought blogs contributor, but given that Atheism Plus, like Skepchick, is a sister venture to FTB, and that Simpleflower xirself (male to female trans; I use 'xir' because I'm not sure what gender pronoun SF would prefer. I'm polite like that, you see) is a complete fucking lunatic with cannibalistic tendencies and a dream of seeing a Social Justice utopia rise in the irradiated 'paradise' of Chernobyl (I swear I'm not making this up: run a search on Simpleflower's posts at the A+ forum if you don't believe me), I thought it only fair to include xir's post here, where s/h/it speaks of how society might become a little more just and caring if only kids were beaten and thrown into jail for the crime of saying nasty things:
It should come as no surprise that Jen and most of the Freethought Blogs baboons don't say much about Atheism Plus these days. Diddy Dickie still gets the occasional peg-on for it, but by and large, Atheism Plus is FTB's elephant in the room. Much like Greg Laden, really, though the A+ elephant doesn't have a Svan to trowel its shit under the carpet; in fact, it has a bucket of its own to crap in, in the shape of the Atheism Plus forum, which is not to say that Freethought Blogs finds it easy to escape the stink.
Some time ago, a moderator on the Rationalia forum made a 'jest' - and I use the term very loosely here - as to whether or not it would be immoral to rape a Skepchick. Certainly a very nasty 'jest' in my view, and there were plenty of baboons ready to make similar feelings clear when PZ Myers put up a post about the matter. Unfortunately, some of these baboons decided to lament the moral failings of 'Pappa' - the Rationalian who made the 'joke' - from a position of...well, moral failure themselves. Really, you must wonder how sincere these people must be when they can condemn a rape 'joke' on the hand, whilst blithely keyfarting out their wishes that other people should die with the other.
But never fear, because very soon, our old pal Josh 'Spokesgay' Slocum is on hand to approach such a sensitive and thorny subject with all the decorum of a fat, spiteful little pud with an extreme Charles Manson complex:
But perhaps I'm the one who's being uncharitable here; after all, have we not all said things in haste that we regretted later? Surely there should some room for the benefit of the doubt; to not hold these people too accountable for their words.
I'll leave you with this comment from Stacy:
22 July 2012 at 10:18 pm (UTC -6)
Iâ€™ve said a lot of dumb things in my time on the internet too, very few of which are actually representative of who I am as a person
Iâ€™ve said a lot of dumb things in my time on the internet too. Some that Iâ€™m really ashamed of. You know what? They were absolutely representative of who I am as a person. I owned them, dealt with the self-knowledge, and, if I was ashamed of what Iâ€™d revealed about myself, Iâ€™ve tried to change.
Who was it said, itâ€™s what you do when no oneâ€™s looking that reveals your true character? Same thing for what you say using an anonymous nym.
As for your blog friends being real people and not a borg, what do you think we are here? What do you think the Skepchicks are?
*who usually attaches the phrase 'Intellectual Terrorist' to the 'insert pretentious nonsense here to make yourself seem more interesting than your posts would indicate' slot that you find next to Pharyngulites' nyms. In the case of 'Ing', I can only presume such services to intellectual terorism must be akin to those of Faisal's with regard to the Islamicist kind, as depicted in Chris Morris' Four Lions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGO_l_YTbk
I think nikephorius realized he had posted something illegal after people started tweeting him about kneecapping! He very quickly deleted his own account - although not before I managed to do a screencap! :obscene-birdiedoublegreen:
As for insectidyll, perhaps you are correct. Although, since anyone who opposes them is automatically labelled a slymepitter, surely it is OK to do it the other way around?
OK, maybe not.
Insectidyll did attack Woolly Bumblebee over her criticism of Melody Hensley. She may not be a standard FTB supporter but she does seem to be a cheerleader for the radfems.
Sometimes, the violence one finds in a Baboon's missive is not always explicit; sometimes, you get the impression that the Baboon in question is quite well aware of what they would really like to say, but for whatever reason - embarrasment, shame, or the possibility of being investigated by the authorities - they strain very hard not to go full Manson. Inevitably, the end result is as creepy as it is ineffectual, as the following post from Freethought Blogs irregular Francisco Bacopa illustrates. Either that, or he's just come up for some air following a 12hr stint on GTA multiplayer in his mom's basement, and still can't quite shake himself out of his role as an online...badass:
Has to be said, when you consider this and the Nikephorious post above - not to mention a certain fan-letter that came across as more threatening than reasurring - Ophelia Benson sure does attract some odd sorts. Still, that's not to say Benson should be condemned by the company she draws, nor even the company she keeps, such as Josh 'Spokesgay' Slocum. That would be very unfair, donchathink?
In any case, Bacopa's peculiar missive was soon ably and deservedly mocked by Tony Parsehole with his Bane video. Which he has now removed. Bollocks, Parsehole, that was funny - why'd you take it down?
Perhaps the only lasting contribution of Pharyngula will be the (rotting or decaying) porcupine meme. The use of this is now discouraged, as even PZ Myers considered it to become embarrassing. Here is a relatively late occurrence in a comment by Cipher, who is now an inmate of the Atheism Plus Asylum.
The aptly nymed Janine Hallucinating Liar, living up to her title by likening Justin Vacula to that particularly vile strain of Catholic clergy on the basis of...well, no evidence whatsoever (see last line):
You'll also note that if you click on the link, you'll find that Hallucinating Liar's fucknasty outburst was met with no criticism at all; and that furthermore, it was Justin Vacula who got banned, and not Janine.
I guess it's all part of the Freethought Blogs inclusive remit: after all, why shouldn't the drooling mouthbreather community - so ably repesented by Janine Hallucinating Liar - be heard?
The baboons love to wallow in their own real or perceived victimhood. Here is Ichthyic (a commenter best known, if at all, for not capitalising the first word in a sentence) falsely accusing Jerry Coyne (Why Evolution Is True) of banning him. He then tries to score victim-points by whining about it while denying that he whines about it.
Jan Steen wrote:The baboons love to wallow in their own real or perceived victimhood. Here is Ichthyic (a commenter best known, if at all, for not capitalising the first word in a sentence) falsely accusing Jerry Coyne (Why Evolution Is True) of banning him. He then tries to score victim-points by whining about it while denying that he whines about it.
They got pissy with me (and called me an asshole) for saying that sometimes I don't capitalize the first word of every sentence. Why does Ichthyic get a free pass on that?
Oh, right, he/she is part of the in-group, and if you're part of the in-group, you can threaten to murder and rape people, and such behaviour is totes ok! Yeah, that's the entire point of this thread :)
To be honest, I can't help but be more amused than appalled at this post, considering that:
A: Grim's 'fuck off and die' bit gets censored, presumably for being triggering, despite that fact that he rails against Wind for her triggering.
B: That Grim should write 'fuck off and die', without assuming it could be potentially triggering - which one would certainly expect of someone with "I'm not saying that neurotypicals are bad people or anything, they just can't feel empathy". (Unless Grimalkin himself is a neurotypical - ie, sane. Obviously, the jury's still out on that one.)
C: That the censured phrase is pretty much par-for-the-viscerally-coarse at Pharyngula (see Spokesgay, above), which, like the Atheism Plus forum, is reckoned by a large contingent of its members to be an internet 'safe space'. I guess it's to the A+ moderator's credit that he/she would prefer that the forum didn't turn into a safe-space for the terminally nasty...
Oh, and I left in The_Laughing_Coyote's response at the bottom as an excellent example of skilled literary conciseness, in how it manages to sum up so much vacuity in so few words.
I notice that concentrating on the FTB horde we are ignoring some of the leaders.
I'll start to put that right by showing a delightful quote by Ophelia Benson as she wishes cruel and unusual punishment - in other words torture - on someone who was convicted of the crime of mass murder, child abuse, serial rape, viciously beating his wife, kicking a dog, ...errr...sock puppeting on the internet? http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... to-prison/
Being sent to prison for this terrible crime is, however, simply not enough.
While we're on the subject of the alpha-baboons, I think it might be a good time to revisit an ugly little missive from PZ Myers*.
But first, a question: let's say you heard about a guy who attended an atheist conference, and being religious, was not best pleased with what he saw and heard. And that guy got so cross that he placed a notice in the window of his ice-cream shop, stating that conference goers would not be welcome. Then lets say that about ten minutes later, the guy thought this was a pretty dumb thing to do, and removed the notice. Then, even later, and after getting some reaction about about it, he apologised profusely and admitted it was a stupid thing done in the heat of the moment.
What do you think a fitting reaction should be?
A: At worst, consider the ice-cream guy a bit of a dick, then go back to watching the telly.
'Fuck him to the ground.' Well, quite. Something of an overreaction, I'd say, and a wee bit rapey too, Peez. Not what I'd expect from such an apparently ardent feminist, who would never dream of doing something like inviting a woman up to share a stage with him, before proceeding to make lewd jokes at her.
*Though personally speaking, I find PZ more hoggish than baboon-like: there's something about him that makes me think of a bloated, grease-flecked Regency baron-farmer overseeing a 'horde' of shrieking, aggressive pigs in his parlour. This Blandings-style similie cannot really be helped when one considers Pharyngula regular Caine, Fleur-De-Whatevah - for instance - whose general temperament can be likened to that of a permanently outraged mother-sow.
And now we come to Ellenbeth Wachs, President of the Humanists of Florida Association, and the Freethought Blogs/Skepchick axis' resident crazy cat lady. And when I say 'crazy cat lady', I don't just mean she's crazy about cats. Frankly, she's crazy about all sorts of things is our Ellenbeth. Actually - she's just crazy. Full stop.
It's fair to say that the good Mizz Wachs has had a fairly chequered background: an arrest for battery, as well as charges for misrepresenting herself as a lawyer and, er, making lewd noises in her home. However, it is important to point out that as far as I'm aware, none of these charges led to a conviction, and that there is some merit to the idea that Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd just might have taken against her because he is somewhat to the right of Reinhard Heydrich. As you can imagine, a loudmouthed lefty-lib like Ellenbeth would not be high on Sheriff Grady's list of people to invite to a cross burning ceremony. Or something.
Nevertheless, Ellenbeth does have the unfortunate habit of attracting trouble. This is probably down to the fact that she is probably as mad as a badger's ankle. For example, not so long ago, Ellenbeth just happened to be Hoggl earnestly reading the Pit with a stern expression on her face when she chanced upon a comment that apparently appeared racist to her. Within seconds, she had tweeted about it. Another twitterer, John Brown AKA humidpress, thought she was taking things out of context, so he decided to give her a taste of her own medicine by calling her a racist - again, without any supporting context. Ellenbeth, getting quite into the spirit of things, then somehow managed to convince herself that the following tweet would make an entirely appropriate response:
Er...wut? I mean, yeah, I can see where yet another non-sequitur might be the right approach. But...um...in terms of taking things a bit far, it is akin to dynamiting your toilet in order to dislodge a Lurking Laden brown admiral.
But then, Ellenbeth is probably crazy, remember. As she aptly demonstrated a few moments later:
Of course, you might think me a little unfair considering Ellenbeth crazy on the basis of such tweets. In which case, I would ordinarily invite you to click on the links above and make your own determination....if Ellenbeth hadn't just gone and made her Twitter account protected. Which is understandable behavior, I guess, for a the leader of a secular organisation who gets caught making such inappropriate noises ( :dance: ). In any case, you'll just have to take my word for it when I say that I think she is dang-gone crazy - or whatever it is you people just south of Canada say.
Anyways, just before departing the crazy world of Ellenbeth Wachs, I'd like to leave you with an image of her from a time when t-shirts - namely Harriet Hall's - hadn't become quite such an issue within the atheosphere:
Addendum to the post above - Mizz Ellenbeth's Twitter is no longer protected, so for the time being you should be able to visit the links. Of course, it's possible she could go all private again, then all public again, and so on and so forth. I'd guess Ellenbeth is somewhat inconsistent like that.
She might not know karate, but she knows crazy - and she will use it.
Going through the old Elevator Gate threads on Pharyngula using the Wayback Machine I actually found fewer uses of the porcupine meme than I expected. For those not aware, I'm referring to the "stick a porcupine into/up your [orifice of choice]" meme that used to be popular in the Pharyngula comment threads.
In "Alway Name Names!" the word "porcupine" shows up 11 times. Some were not actual uses of the meme (one was confusion because they didn't recognize the meme, others were quoting it and laughing or adding to it, or just mentioning porcupines multiple times within a single comment). Reading each of the appropriate comments it looks like the porcupine meme was was used 7 times. (I didn't count one comment where the commenter seemed to be enjoying/laughing at the idea but not necessarily using or adding to it.) Those who used it: chigau(#74), Brother Ogvorbis(#142), serendipitydawg(#262), plien(#513), Kamaka(#790), cicely(#859), amphiox(#864).
In "The Decent Human Being's..." the word "porcupine" shows up 20 times. Despite that there appeared to be only 5 uses of the porcupine meme in that thread. Part of the reason is that the pharyngulate were challenged on their use of it, and it was discussed. Those who used it: Matt "Nora" Penfold(#77), Daz(#398), Brother Ogvorbis(#458), Caine(#483), and Algernon(#655).
In "Oh, no, not again..." the word "porcupine" shows up only 1 time, but it is a usage of the meme by Caine at #194.
So that's 13 uses of the porcupine meme in the three Elevator Gate threads.
Tigzy wrote:Thanks LMU - will look into it. Once I've got the non-porcupine backlog up-to-date. Yep, there's plenty more FTB related nastiness to come...
You're welcome, and thanks for your efforts Tigzy! I didn't include screenshots because the way I was viewing the threads didn't preserve original formatting very well. Should I have included the quotes though? (There were a lot of comments.) I can go through again looking for "MRA," "PUA," "mysogynist," etc. I think those might actually matter more as they are smears that can actually affect people's reputations if they are believed.
Tigzy wrote:No worries about the screenshots - I'll see if I can sort that out later. Be interesting to read the 'always name names' thread again, to see what (if anything) has changed in the meantime.
As I said, might be a while yet before I get something more specific as regards the porcupine thing, though.
Take your time. I don't follow the FC(n) et al anymore, so if something isn't brought to my attention by someone here I probably won't notice (and if it is then it is often by your work :) ) so I figured if I were going to contribute in this thread then I should do it by going back to where I knew there'd be a lot of baboonery.
Looking that the three EG threads again this time for uses of "PUA" and "MRA". In this context "PUA" stands for "Pick-Up Artist" and "MRA" stands for "Mens Rights Advocate." My understanding is that PUAs are men who give or have taken lessons on how to "pick-up" women for sex or relationships. In contrast (again in my understanding) MRAs are people (not just men) who are concerned about equal rights issues for men, for example gender differences in work related fatalities or child custody in family court. While overlap between the PUAs and MRAs is possible, you wouldn't necessarily expect it (you might expect PUAs to be predominantly young single men, while you might expect MRAs to be older divorced men with children, a person can't fit both of those stereotypes at once), for that reason it is somewhat amusing that when used as epithets, the commenters use them almost synonymously as if they don't really understand the insults they're using.
Additionally, both PUAs and MRAs are very much "opt-in" in that if you don't know what they are, then you almost certainly aren't one (except by some very broad definitions of those terms), so the fact that many of those who received these insults had to look them up, means that the accusation was false. Given this, why do they use those terms as insults? Because to their thinking both "MRA" and "PUA" basically mean "misogynist." In their view PUAs treat women as objects, and are therefore misogynists, and MRAs fight against women politically, and are therefore misogynists, and this is assuming they make any distinction between those things at all (the fact that they think a PUA would write an "MRA manifesto" suggests that they don't). Make no mistake, if they call someone an MRA or a PUA, they are trying to insult and slander that person.
I'm not going to make a distinction here between saying someone is an MRA or PUA outright, and saying that they have MRA-like views. I understand that this is arguable, but saying someone is a misogynist and just saying that they are "parroting misogynistic thought" is too close for my comfort. Also the accusations will often be made about all those who disagree rather than a specific commenter, for example: "Aaaand the MRAs have arrived. Oh what FUN!"
Looking at the first thread "Always..." the term "PUA" appears 7 times and it is insinuated that someone is a PUA twice: by Rev. BigDumbChimp at #188 and again at #231. "MRA" appears 34 times and is used as an epithet 25 times in total. Those who used it: Amphigorey (#379), Brother Ogvorbis (#438), plien (#478), Ing (#719), RahXephon (#724), Caine (#735), Bryant Belknap (#752), Caine (#762), Brother Ogvorbis (#788), Brother Ogvorbis (#869), Josh (#878), JustALurker (#901), ted (#968), Caine (#1040), Josh (#1059), Caine (#1092), Caine (#1107), Caine (#1118), Andyo (#1131), Caine (#1134), Caine (#1140), Caine (#1173), Some bloke or another (#1196), tielserrath (#1216), and Brother Ogvorbis (#1276).
Looking at the second thread "Decent..." the term "PUA" appears 8 times and is discussed in thread but not used as an epithet explicitly. "MRA" appears 44 times and is used as an epithet 18 times. Those who used it: Philip Legge (#36), Carlie (#62), Caine (#82), oihorse (#103), Ms. Daisy Cutter (#142), Andyo (#201), Rey Fox (#211), strange gods before me (#282), Andyo (#418), Cerberus (#498), Nerd of Redhead (#514), Nerd of Redhead (#533), Algernon (#541), Matt "Nora" Penfold (#598), Josh (#629), Caine (#633), Daredevil Dan (#646), a_ray_in_dilbert_space (#704).
Looking at the third thread "Oh no..." the term "PUA" appears 5 times and is used as an epithet 3 times total. Those who used it: webriggs (#177), Carlie (#777), and mouthyb (#852). "MRA" appears 69 times and is used as an epithet 30 time total. Those who used it: Gyeong Hwa (#54), Caine (#127), Caine (#140), Caine (#185), RemembersABeach (#199), Nerd of Redhead (#214), Jessa (#235), Harmless Eccentric (#254), Daredevil Dan (#306), plien (#310), Andyo (#325), Brother Ogvorbis (#334), Andyo (#431), Shala (#448), plien (#464), Aratina Cage (#517), Caine (#551), Philip Legge (#590), Caine (#604), jcmccreight (#629), Philip Legge (#641), Carlie (#777), Algernon (#805), Algernon (#828), John Morales (#831), Andyo (#855), makyui (#857), Andy (#863), Algernon (#873), and Andyo (#878).
So that's 5 uses of PUA, and 73 uses of MRA over all three threads.
If you've ever heard someone make a sweeping generalisation - usually negative - about an entire ethnicity, religion, gender or nation, then it's usually a fair bet that the someone making the generalisation is a bonehead. And more often than not, a racist/neo-nazi/xenophobic bonehead. From intellectual sluice-effluvia such as 'All the Jews are...', all the way to 'All the Muslims are...' (see Pharyngula regular SteveoR for prime examples of why, apparently, muslims are directly analogous to the Cybermen) we run a sewer-stream gamut of stupidity, nastiness and visceral hatred.
I'll leave you with this offering from Anthony K, AKA Brownian, AKA The Virgin Ian Brown, AKA The Cat's Clements. In fairness to the pudgy little one, it may not be down to hatred as such - more the angst of the hormonally frustrated teenager whose view of the world is somewhat tainted by an incomplete education and too much time skateboarding and hanging at the mall when he should have been studying:
Now, I know what you're thinking - Aha! But Ian isn't really being a xenophobic twat here, is he! He's actually being quite clever for once, and is deploying such xenophobic twattery in an ironic way, in order to show how such sweeping generisations about muslims are so xenophobic and, er, twattish.
So let's have Ian clarify, just in case his argument came across as too nuanced for some:
Iâ€™m not just â€œrantingâ€, Iâ€™m acting on my cause, which right now is to rid the world of master trolls like you. And my chosen course of action in service of that cause is to feed the troll until it explodes. Now fuck off and die.
Fuck off and die, you scum-sucking bottom feeder. You deserve to have a dumptruckâ€™s worth of used tampons and maxipads and pee sticks emptied over your car, preferably after theyâ€™ve been fermenting in the hot sun for a month.
Fuck off and die. Youâ€™re a scum bag and I wouldnâ€™t turn my back on you for any amount of money. Youâ€™re the reason I have to keep my guard up for myself and my friends. You pose as an ally but youâ€™re an enabler or worse.
Thanks LMU - I was gonna put it in myself today. It should be noted that many of those links now lead to (conveniently?) excised comments sections.
Nice to get one by Aratina at last - a person who has perhaps set a new record for underachievement in managing to bask in the reflected glory of le poltroon grande, Oolon. And yes, the previous sentence was entirely gratuitous and not at all there to help with search terms. ;)
Thanks debaser. I looked at the wayback machine and I can't find any archives that still have their comment threads. However, I should note that I've had problems with older archives not always appearing (I had this trouble with the EG threads in fact, sometimes they'd appear and sometimes they wouldn't, not sure why), so it's a fine idea if anyone else would like to check.
Aneris wrote:Here's a handy search link (remove the pharyngula for overall FftB obviously). Just replace the "fuckwit" with whatever term you find interesting. Here is a quick breakdown. Mind you, not all will be in an insulting context, but it becomes clear that most of it does. Feel free to copy&paste and expand (just use notepad for formatting).
In my book, youâ€™re a sociopathic scumbag who needs to die in a fire if you canâ€™t even manage a decent fucking apology without trying to be cute. Youâ€™re not cute. Youâ€™re a disgusting piece of shit.
[Named commenter] says about me:
â€œyou are the kind of sick fuckâ€
â€œyouâ€™re a disgusting waste of human fleshâ€
â€œDIAFâ€ [= Die In A Fire!]
Iâ€™m just being curious, do you find these utterances still tolerable?
Response: Youâ€™re absolutely right about [named commenter] and I shall chastise him forthwith: [Named commenter], stop being so gentle and mild-mannered to [named commenter]. He should be properly described as whaleshit, the nastiest, most slimy mess in the depths of the ocean. He should be pounding so many decaying porcupines up his asshole that quills start coming out of his ears.
Just left this on Michael Nugent's blog. Currently in moderation. Let's see how fair he is:
Tigzy March 4, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Well Michael, seems I havenâ€™t been the only one compiling a list of what we see as the worst excesses of the other â€˜sideâ€™, as it were. In the interests of fairness, I thought Iâ€™d share with you some examples of nasty pushback againstâ€¦well, anyone who disagrees with the FTB lot, really:
(Trigger warning for excessive violence and lots of wishes that people die in a nasty manner. Shedloads of wishes, in fact.)
â€˜*Breaks two liquor bottles and brandishes the jagged necks.*
I WILL cut you abear, you stupid fucking troll.â€™
â€˜spectator, no decent person wants to interact with someone like you. Go die in a fire. No, Iâ€™m not being hyperbolic. I actually mean I want you to die in a fire.â€™
(Yes, I know Wowbagger complained about this one being brought up again. Anyone would think him ashamed at such a display of incivilty, or something)
â€˜I wouldnâ€™t go to TAM now if it was across the street from me and free. Iâ€™d just load up on more ammo, in case any of you cretins got the wrong idea of what I think of sexist garbage like you.â€™
â€˜go fuck yourself. Off a bridge or something.â€™
â€˜ â€œI went looking and I am sorry Amy but you need to get a backboneâ€
Mind if I tear yours out and give it to her?â€™
â€˜Call me a spic and Iâ€™ll snap your damn neck.â€™
â€˜btw, Iâ€™m going to break your neck wasnâ€™t a threat. We were discussing racial slurs and whatâ€™s acceptable and I mentioned I have no qualms snapping the neck of someone who calls me a spic.â€™
(Julian, clarifying the statement above, just in case anyone got the wrong idea about him, presumably)
â€˜Howâ€™s this, Jimmy, you fucking two-faced lying bag of shit?
You go fuck yourself. Get something heavy and sharp. Die whilst doing it if possible.â€™
â€˜Arcus, the next time you feel like writing â€œMy guess would beâ€, go find an industrial press, have them engrave one of the plates with that phrase, and stick your fucking head in.â€™
â€˜If Ben Stiller, Adam Sandler and Jim Carrey were eviscerated and their guts spread along the length of the Equator, it would be a nice start.â€™
â€˜AHAHHAHA I hope you get hit by a car! Seriously! Play in the street!â€™
â€˜Go take a nap in a deep lake.â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die. Seriously. Youâ€™re even scarier than I thought; a full-on narcissistic fuck who cares more about his abstract humor affectations than he does about real people.
I pity your wife.â€™
â€˜Go die, Lion.â€™
â€˜Seriously. Please die. I mean that. Iâ€™m really eager for you and the bigots of your generation to take a dirt nap; itâ€™s the most effective way for marginalized people to have one damned bit of breathing room without looking over their shoulders wondering whoâ€™s going to rape them, beat them, get them fired, and then gloat to the boss that â€œthey had it coming.â€
You canâ€™t imagine the satisfaction I get watching your cohort succumb to attrition. Every one of you who dies is one fewer voter who can push through legislation legalizing forced pregnancy, consequence-free rape, and socially approved queer bashing.
Age early and often.â€™
(Josh Spokesgay, clarifying things just in case people thought he was only a nasty little git)
â€˜You are scum. I would no more trust you than I would trust a priest with a young child.â€™
(Janine Hallucinating Liar, to Justin Vacula)
â€˜Why is it that every time thereâ€™s a protracted argument about how Muslims are clearly more evil than everyone else, there seems to be a goddamn Australian at the centre of it all?
Goddamn genocidal racist motherfuckers.â€™
(Anthony K, aka Brownian, expressing his disgust at racism by, er, being xenophobic)
The following were proudly compiled by Aratina Cage, from Pharyngula when it was housed at SciBlogs:
â€˜Take a greased pole and fuck yourself.â€™
â€˜Fuck yourself with a sharp stickâ€™
â€˜find a splintering stick and fuck yourself up the assâ€™
â€˜go fuck yourself. And then die in a fireâ€™
â€˜Go. Fuck. Yourself. With a Hefty Bag full of rottweilersâ€™
â€˜Go fuck yourself with a chainsaw in that festering pustule of an asshole of yoursâ€™
â€˜Fuck yourself Charles- IN THE ASSâ€™
â€˜You can fuck yourself with a razor-bladed stick and go die in a ditch, you pompous, lying, gutless, disingenuous fuckâ€™
â€˜Take your gun, lube the barrel and fuck your self in the ass.â€™
â€˜you should be fucked sideways with a rusty knifeâ€™
â€˜Do us all a favor and kill yourself before you have a chance to have childrenâ€™
â€˜you can go fuck yourself. Do it deep, long and hard.â€™
â€˜Go die in a fucking fire. The world will be a better place without you in it.â€™
â€˜I will, however, say that this fuck up here is a complete asshole and needs to die in a fireâ€™
â€˜Go and die painfully, okay?â€™
â€˜Go fuck yourself sideways with a rusting chainsaw, you vapid, godbotting wankâ€™
â€˜fuck yourself up the ass with a splintering crossâ€™
And just in case anyone should think things improved once PZ Myers moved to Freethought Blogs:
â€˜Iâ€™m not just â€œrantingâ€, Iâ€™m acting on my cause, which right now is to rid the world of master trolls like you. And my chosen course of action in service of that cause is to feed the troll until it explodes. Now fuck off and die.â€™
â€˜You know what? Suck it [named commenter]. And fuck off and die. Youâ€™re no ally; youâ€™re an apologist. Get the hell out of here.â€™
â€˜You are such a piece of honky shit, pretending they do so as much as they did prior. Fuck off and die.â€™
â€˜Being a â€œhonky McStraighterson,â€ I didnâ€™t need to fucking read this bullshit. Fuck off and die, [named commenter].â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die under your bridge. Youâ€™ll make much better compost than you make a simulacrum of humanity, precious.â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die, asshole. And before you do, learn how to spell â€œshitâ€.â€™
â€˜And you know her motivations how? Fuck off and die.â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die, you scum-sucking bottom feeder. You deserve to have a dumptruckâ€™s worth of used tampons and maxipads and pee sticks emptied over your car, preferably after theyâ€™ve been fermenting in the hot sun for a month.â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die. Youâ€™re a scum bag and I wouldnâ€™t turn my back on you for any amount of money. Youâ€™re the reason I have to keep my guard up for myself and my friends. You pose as an ally but youâ€™re an enabler or worse.â€™
â€˜Pre-emptive response to whiny MRAs: fuck off and die, assholes.â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die, [named person]. Perferably the latter.â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die, slimepitter. Honest enough for you, asshole?â€™
â€˜Fuck off and die, you asswipe troll.â€™
â€˜What a vile fucking sack of shit you are. Please fuck off and die you lying misogynist scumbagâ€™
â€˜Fuck off and die in a fire. Pretty please. â€˜
â€˜Fuck off and die, you revolting flap of skin, and stop whining about being treated rudelyâ€™
â€˜Go take a nap in an incinerator virtualsatyr. You repugnant fuck. You donâ€™t deserve your mother.â€™
â€˜So, benniepoo, jump off a bridge. Youâ€™re unworthy of our oxygen.â€™
â€˜Die in a fire, you filthy rapist.â€™
(Courtesy Stevarious, despite their being no evidence that the person he was responding to is a rapist)
â€¦and thereâ€™s plenty more where that came from, if the backlog is anything to go by.
All things considered, Iâ€™ll settle for the Slymepit, whatever its faults may be. Unlike Freethought Blogs â€“ which your pal Ophelia has made her happy home, Michael â€“ the commentariat generally donâ€™t leave me feeling quite so sick and disgusted as the likes of Anthony K, Josh Spokesgay, Julian, Wowbagger et al do.
The sickest thing is that simply by dint of at least not straying wholly into sexist and racist territory, they probably consider themselves as empathic, decent human beings.
7 December 2011 at 4:02 pm (UTC -6) Link to this comment
We gave Rebecca Watson a care package because it totally sucks to get anonymous rape threats and douchebag insults from strangers for months and months because you made a comment about freaking manners. Not because she is a goddess of atheist or whatever. I donâ€™t always agree with Watson, or even follow her blog closely, but the last few months must have totally sucked.
The fact that you donâ€™t see this as pretty obvious calls your basic humanity into question, so enjoy this prickly porcupine.
(Speaking of which, surlyramics made me a custom necklace with a totally cute porcupine and the word â€œinsertâ€ underneath it. I get compliments on it every time I wear it (without even any questions about why the word â€œinsertâ€ is under the porcupine). It makes me giggle inside.)
Somewhere, out there, is a Pharyngula post which has the full deck of nastiness: insert porcupine plus rusty knife, die in a fire, jump off a bridge, and all done both slowly and sideways.
Such emphatic, caring people. Do they not think that any people reading their shite might have been victims of violence themselves? Or have tried self-harming or attempted suicide? Been horrifically burned? Had a loved one commit suicide?
Seems splash damage is fine if what you're splashing around is petrol...