Crass Free Forum

[Submariner]

The following topic is for the academic style (or merely crass free) discussion of ideas related to the differences between the various groups opposing or supporting various positions, methods, and goals of the new wave of atheism plus social justice issues.

No swearing, personal attacks, or sophomoric artwork or jokes allowed in this thread.

[Apples]

Dear Submariner, I don't think your signature sets an appropriate tone for this thread. I think you should 'get some time' and consider changing it, unless the suggestion offends you, in which case please take it under advisement.

Also - Stephanie Zvan's remarkable unattractiveness in no way affects the validity of her arguments.

[jimthepleb]

I believe PZ myers is occasionally somewhat foolish.

[windy]

"Academic style"= give me a grant and I'll get back to you in a year or so with preliminary results

[LMU]

I believe PZ myers is occasionally somewhat foolish.

Perhaps you or someone could pick a specific example and explain why/how it is foolish?

[Metalogic42]

Ok, I'll contribute to this.

Here's a recent post by PZ Myers: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... nd-ftb-17/ - now, I'm not critiquing PZ here, just using this post as an example. I'm critiquing Ophelia Benson.

The simple fact of the matter is, this one post, which took PZ probably 10 minutes to write, is three days of posts for Ophelia. The vast majority of her posts are:

1) One sentence mentioning the topic of the post. Half of this sentence will be a link to something else.
2) Huge blockquote of text from whatever she linked to.
3) One more sentence essentially reading just "I agree with this", or other irrelevant comment.
4) Second huge blockquote of text.
5) Final sentence restating "I agree with this".

Here is a perfect example: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... -dont-get/. Richard Reed has previously made this point in satire: http://richardreed84.wordpress.com/2013 ... ia-benson/, but I'd like to say something more.

My issue with this is that she's considered a "member of the FTB community". My question is why? To be rightly considered a member of a community, one must contribute in some way to that community, and Ophelia barely contributes anything, good or bad. She claims that she's opposed to "misogyny" (whether what she opposes even counts as misogyny is a topic for another time), but what does she ever do about it? In the spirit of this thread, I don't want to say "drama queen"; however, a survey of her posting history does reveal that she spends far more time calling attention to things she doesn't approve of than she does on trying to change any of those things.

[incognito]

I do believe it would be an accurate characterization of my opinion to say that I, personally, do not find any of the FTBloggers very intellectually stimulating, cognitively challenging, persuasive, or entertaining.

[another lurker]

I do believe it would be an accurate characterization of my opinion to say that I, personally, do not find any of the FTBloggers very intellectually stimulating, cognitively challenging, persuasive, or entertaining.

Setar is massively entertaining! Gotta love A+!

[jimthepleb]

I do believe it would be an accurate characterization of my opinion to say that I, personally, do not find any of the FTBloggers very intellectually stimulating, cognitively challenging, persuasive, or entertaining.

Setar is massively entertaining! Gotta love A+!

careful chap that was almost funny!

[Michael K Gray]

No swearing, personal attacks, or sophomoric artwork or jokes allowed in this thread.

Fuck that, you cunt.

[d4m10n]

To take seriously the thought that a bit of crude humor will put off huge numbers of people and drive them to the loving arms of ideologues, is more than a bit paternalistic. They can only keep a hold of those who are already perpetually aggrieved and they know it, that's why being perpetually aggrieved is so constantly reinforced among them, no matter what we do or don't do. Those who laugh and mock are their greatest enemies, not their weakest, and they know it. Refusing to mock these clowns, universally taking the high road, IMO, would do more damage than good. It would give seeming legitimacy to even the weakest of their claims of hatred and victimization.

To be clear, I wasn't arguing against crude humor or sweary language. I've nothing at all against sophomoric artwork in and of itself. I'm also not arguing for any more rules in the Pit, in fact, I went publicly on record in favor of the current rules just two days ago.

All that I've been arguing is that given a choice between making fun of someone because they are fat/old/unattractive and making fun of that same person because they are dead wrong about something of substance (or else flamingly hypocritical by their own standards) it seems to me that the latter course is far more likely to persuade the persuadable. I'd like to encourage people to take that latter course when they feel that they have a choice between the two. That is all.

Mykeru says the "best approach is just hit these bastards head on" and I completely agree. The occasional danish joke may be irresistible (and worth a chortle) but that's not what's going to win the day. Calling them out on their words and actions will.

Back to your regularly scheduled side-thread.

p.s. shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.

[16bitheretic]

I do believe it would be an accurate characterization of my opinion to say that I, personally, do not find any of the FTBloggers very intellectually stimulating, cognitively challenging, persuasive, or entertaining.

I do think outside of FTB that NonStampCollector's YouTube output is awesome. AronRa did some great YT vids as well, and when he's on the Magic Sandwich Show his ability to cut through the bullshit arguments of people like Muslim apologist Hamza Tsortis or various Christian apologists is quite a thing to watch. There are a few of their bloggers whose blogs I don't find all that compelling, but whose real life activism is worthy of respect.

Then of course there's the large cellar of crap that we know from the PToS section of this site, and I think we all know which usual suspects are in that category.

[free thoughtpolice]

I believe PZ myers is occasionally somewhat foolish.

Perhaps you or someone could pick a specific example and explain why/how it is foolish?

Apparently you are having difficulty understanding the concept of a safe space free from crass! Do you not know that asking for an "example" is tone trolling? Keep that shit up and you take a week off and aardvark anus something...

[Michael K Gray]

I do believe it would be an accurate characterization of my opinion to say that I, personally, do not find any of the FTBloggers very intellectually stimulating, cognitively challenging, persuasive, or entertaining.

I do think outside of FTB that NonStampCollector's YouTube output is awesome. AronRa did some great YT vids as well, and when he's on the Magic Sandwich Show his ability to cut through the bullshit arguments of people like Muslim apologist Hamza Tsortis or various Christian apologists is quite a thing to watch. There are a few of their bloggers whose blogs I don't find all that compelling, but whose real life activism is worthy of respect.

Then of course there's the large cellar of crap that we know from the PToS section of this site, and I think we all know which usual suspects are in that category.

[Michael K Gray]

I do think outside of FTB that NonStampCollector's YouTube output is awesome.

Whereas I find NSC's 'output' to be the equivalent of a 14 year-old shooting dead fish in a barrel with a howitzer.
Too fucking easy for anyone with an education and an IQ over 85.

Similar with Aaron Ra, and Matt Dillahunty.
Hunting down and killing already lame/dying game and advertising one's "feat" is not a proper sport for a gentleman.