The Trump Dump!

Double wank and shit chips
Brive1987
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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2521

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:30 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: You can find a lit of former pitizens on Twitter. Skeptickle, Gefan, Jan Steen...all firmly anti-Trump. I think the Trump support took a lot of pitters by surprise, they found it disheartening and left.
I think you need a timeline, you are inventing history for partisan gain. Trump lite.
What dafuq you on about? What am I inventing?
Correlation (Both causal and temporal) between the debates off the past 12 months, people no longer posting and their current political beliefs.

Gumby MkII left because of CaptainT’s abuse of FTB (as kiddy fiddlers). Skep stopped being active almost as soon as she went red after the Sargon podcast. A step back for her was probably IRL sensible. Welch and Caruthers went down as white knights (over Anita and SciBabe), Strawkins lost interest once FtB died and was largely off radar pre Sargon. Pitchguest had issues with his father so who knows. Yeti was fairly pro Trump ... Really? only had interest in the SJW angle.
Maybe Jan left over Brexit.

There is no common thread. Beyond the downgraded topicality of FTB / schism

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2522

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:49 pm

Oh, Aneris was chased away by Kirb in the wars single confirmed ideol-kill.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2523

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:18 pm

Looks like PZ has outed himself as a self professed liberal nut job.

http://i.imgur.com/dT2MDBj.jpg

#notmyteam

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2524

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:31 pm



:lol: :lol:

Gotta hate it when that happens.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2525

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:10 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: You can find a lit of former pitizens on Twitter. Skeptickle, Gefan, Jan Steen...all firmly anti-Trump. I think the Trump support took a lot of pitters by surprise, they found it disheartening and left.
I think you need a timeline, you are inventing history for partisan gain. Trump lite.
What dafuq you on about? What am I inventing?
Correlation (Both causal and temporal) between the debates off the past 12 months, people no longer posting and their current political beliefs.

Gumby MkII left because of CaptainT’s abuse of FTB (as kiddy fiddlers). Skep stopped being active almost as soon as she went red after the Sargon podcast. A step back for her was probably IRL sensible. Welch and Caruthers went down as white knights (over Anita and SciBabe), Strawkins lost interest once FtB died and was largely off radar pre Sargon. Pitchguest had issues with his father so who knows. Yeti was fairly pro Trump ... Really? only had interest in the SJW angle.
Maybe Jan left over Brexit.

There is no common thread. Beyond the downgraded topicality of FTB / schism
Bullshit. Snap Tickle proudly supports "Resist" in her bio and 80% or more of her posts are anti-trump. I've contacted other former pitters privately who were dismayed that the board went Trumpish. Or would you rather I simply repost every anti-Trump tweet from former pitters that come my way?

I was a bit disappointed myself. Trump is a conman, nothing more and maybe even less. You'll notice support has cooled somewhat as his bumbling incompetence has become apparent to even the meanest understanding. Even that creepy incel has wandered off to other pastures.

You support a mean-spirited, dim, egomaniacal narcassitic shitwit. Even Ann Coulter (not a towering intellect) sees it clearly. "The politics of hate" indeed.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2526

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:18 pm

Brive1987 wrote:

:lol: :lol:

Gotta hate it when that happens.
They corrected it very quickly. But you can see why they'd be confused.
43240tak0k911.jpg
(633.01 KiB) Downloaded 191 times

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2527

Post by Brive1987 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:19 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: You can find a lit of former pitizens on Twitter. Skeptickle, Gefan, Jan Steen...all firmly anti-Trump. I think the Trump support took a lot of pitters by surprise, they found it disheartening and left.
I think you need a timeline, you are inventing history for partisan gain. Trump lite.
What dafuq you on about? What am I inventing?
Correlation (Both causal and temporal) between the debates off the past 12 months, people no longer posting and their current political beliefs.

Gumby MkII left because of CaptainT’s abuse of FTB (as kiddy fiddlers). Skep stopped being active almost as soon as she went red after the Sargon podcast. A step back for her was probably IRL sensible. Welch and Caruthers went down as white knights (over Anita and SciBabe), Strawkins lost interest once FtB died and was largely off radar pre Sargon. Pitchguest had issues with his father so who knows. Yeti was fairly pro Trump ... Really? only had interest in the SJW angle.
Maybe Jan left over Brexit.

There is no common thread. Beyond the downgraded topicality of FTB / schism
Bullshit. Snap Tickle proudly supports "Resist" in her bio and 80% or more of her posts are anti-trump. I've contacted other former pitters privately who were dismayed that the board went Trumpish. Or would you rather I simply repost every anti-Trump tweet from former pitters that come my way?

I was a bit disappointed myself. Trump is a conman, nothing more and maybe even less. You'll notice support has cooled somewhat as his bumbling incompetence has become apparent to even the meanest understanding. Even that creepy incel has wandered off to other pastures.

You support a mean-spirited, dim, egomaniacal narcassitic shitwit. Even Ann Coulter (not a towering intellect) sees it clearly. "The politics of hate" indeed.
Bullshit back at you.

The claim was “they found it disheartening and left.”

I pointed out the exodus came before Trump’s inauguration and certainly before the calendar 2018 debates.
I also pointed out their current political views do not change this fact. And there were a multitude of observed causes that weren’t Trump related.

It is tiresome having to restate blatantly ignored points.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2528

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:06 am

Brive1987 wrote: You need to debork your quote. I’d be wary of casting aspersions (on other peoples behalf) that they are echo chamber seeking snowflakes.
It's more likely that the opposite thing happened, and that the board became, to an extent, an alt-"lite" echo chamber.
Re Northam, Jesus makes more sense than you. You’d support the left dude with blackface but crucify KMan with no direct evidence?

Hack.
I never wrote this. Don't put words in my mouth.

What I wrote is that the Trump right is more than happy to use SocJus outrages to their advantage, just like it happened before with Al Franken. I never commented on the Kavanaugh hearings before, but I think that the brouhaha was actually a shitshow for the Democrats, and it was used by the GOP effectively in a couple of Senate races.

Unlike in the case of Roy Moore, where the evidence of improper sexual behavior was stronger, the Kavanaugh hearings were based on less substantial allegations, and ultimately he was still nominated. There was evidence that Kavanaugh drank a lot, and probably did a lot of stupid things as a teen/college student, but not so conclusive evidence that he was a rapist/guilt of sexual assault. It'd have been better to try and oppose Kavanaugh's nominations on his merits as a judge. Even some conservatives weren't completely happy with him.

Northam was an utter moron for taking his blackface/KKK hood pic and putting it in his yearbook, but I'd wager that there were lots of drunk morons in college doing similar stupid things, especially in the South. It's not like there is evidence he ACTUALLY belong to the KKK, or that he took part in racist acts, or supported racist ideas. He might have been just a stupid college student trying to be "edgy".

He should have been the one to reveal the stupid photos in advance and point out that he had been an idiotic college student and then he changed. Instead he hid his past, or maybe forgot it, and was caught with his pants down, like a complete idiot. At this point it's more or less inevitable that he'll be forced to resign. But let's not kid ourselves, this was done by the Republicans to get back at the Dems for Kavanaugh and to promote their myths about how they're not racist, the Democrats are the "real racists".

The Trump right isn't interested in curbing down outrage campaigns or the SocJus in general, or to "protect freedom of speech". They're more than ready to exploit outrages, or the SocJus tendencies of the Democratic, or to curb the speech of people they don't like. Trump and the GOP are feeding the SocJus, both directly and indirectly, to "own libs" and in general exploit any potential weakness of the Democrats. They'd be more than happy to fuel Democratic purity tests.

Today it's Northam and his blackface/hood photo, so screw him, tomorrow it might be someone who wrote than transwomen aren't real women.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2529

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:17 am

By the way, this was one of the last posts by Jan Steen:
What is happening in Poland is worrying: A government of ultra-Catholic fanatics is trying to do away with the independence of the courts, and is about to destroy large parts of one of the most valuable nature reserves in Europe to help their cronies make a quick buck. But an EU-hating dimwit like you thinks the EU is the real problem here. What a fucking moron. What a blinkered idiot. I hate to share a forum with lowlifes like you.

The Slymepit used to be a den of sceptics. But it is becoming more and more the mirror image of the SJWs we have been agitating against. Nietzsche was right, I guess.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2530

Post by Steersman » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:11 am

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:12 pm
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: Fucking autocorrect changed Popehat to "lol what."

Oh, and I just heard something about Trump caving.

Also,

Code: Select all

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1088881959034589184
Even the best experts on border security never envisaged that migrants would be able to develop ladder technology to counter the wall. It looks to me like some of them are carrying prayer mats too.
Barbed wire & machine-gun posts - that would do it. Or, as Anne Coulter recently suggested, planting some mines - from sea to shining sea - would work as well - and probably cheaper too. ....

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2531

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:19 am


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2532

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:19 am

Steersman wrote:
Barbed wire & machine-gun posts - that would do it. Or, as Anne Coulter recently suggested, planting some mines - from sea to shining sea - would work as well - and probably cheaper too. ....
The barbed wire wouldn't give much protection, they will just drape their prayer mats over it, hardly even slow them down. :twatson:

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2533

Post by Steersman » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:18 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Steersman wrote:
Barbed wire & machine-gun posts - that would do it. Or, as Anne Coulter recently suggested, planting some mines - from sea to shining sea - would work as well - and probably cheaper too. ....
The barbed wire wouldn't give much protection, they will just drape their prayer mats over it, hardly even slow them down. :twatson:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Steersman wrote:
Barbed wire & machine-gun posts - that would do it. Or, as Anne Coulter recently suggested, planting some mines - from sea to shining sea - would work as well - and probably cheaper too. ....
The barbed wire wouldn't give much protection, they will just drape their prayer mats over it, hardly even slow them down. :twatson:
LoL - some "cafeteria" or "secular" Muslim suggested recently that most Muslims would sooner leave their wives - all of them - behind than their prayer mats. Maybe a stretch, and based on some questionable assumptions. In any case, see "mines", something that the builders of the Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall didn't have access to:



But, changing gears, recollect you posting something awhile back about some particularly problematic immigrants to Canada that were brought over by some Church groups - from Thailand or Vietnam, I think - and who turned out to be less than ideal citizens, i.e., thugs. Think you also suggested that that happened in your neck of the woods - you have any links to published stories on the issue? A resolution to that problem?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2534

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Kirb, I gave you Jan as an EU-phile rage quitter. Not even Trump-triggered.

Do better.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2535

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:59 pm

Steersman wrote:
But, changing gears, recollect you posting something awhile back about some particularly problematic immigrants to Canada that were brought over by some Church groups - from Thailand or Vietnam, I think - and who turned out to be less than ideal citizens, i.e., thugs. Think you also suggested that that happened in your neck of the woods - you have any links to published stories on the issue? A resolution to that problem
I don't have any links on this, it happened from the late 1970s to the last I heard around the mid-late 1980s. Those fuckers got away with all sorts of crap for a long time, getting let off the hook over and over again. Most of their shit got little attention from the larger media and a bit more from local media ( Comox Valley Echo now defunct, Comox Valley Record) reported on some of their shenanigans. The larger BC media did cover their illegal and destructive behavior that pretty much fucked up local clam harvesters. My run ins with them were when I was in the wild harvest wholesale florist green supplies, evergreen shrub cuttings for wreaths and flower arrangements and pine and cedar boughs for xmas wreaths, that sort of thing. They really destroyed the patches that were otherwise producing every year or two and destroyed the market by flooding it with low quality shit that drove the prices down and basically got our products dropped from the lucrative Amsterdam Clock flower auction. Meanwhile, they were using those industries to launder money from their heroin and cocaine sales. The head of the gang bought an apartment building in Campbell River with the profits and moved the gang into it. The last I heard, I think was in the late 80's when the queen's cowboys moved into that building and made IIRC about 50 arrests for serious crimes like heroin sales and at the same time went to the local evergreen buyers and audited their books to catch the money laundering.
You could try and look some of that up I suppose but it was long ago and sparsely reported. A lot of things were things I witnessed myself or heard of directly from people I knew and talking to fish and game and federal fisheries people had never made it to any media. For example, one fish and game officer that had been risking his life catching these fuckers driving around at night poaching deer and when they were brought into court the judge would let them off the hook, let them keep the meat, and talk about how these were people just didn't understand our laws and were working hard to adjust to their new home.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2536

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:45 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:17 am
By the way, this was one of the last posts by Jan Steen:
What is happening in Poland is worrying: A government of ultra-Catholic fanatics is trying to do away with the independence of the courts, and is about to destroy large parts of one of the most valuable nature reserves in Europe to help their cronies make a quick buck. But an EU-hating dimwit like you thinks the EU is the real problem here. What a fucking moron. What a blinkered idiot. I hate to share a forum with lowlifes like you.

The Slymepit used to be a den of sceptics. But it is becoming more and more the mirror image of the SJWs we have been agitating against. Nietzsche was right, I guess.
Btw Jan went dark from June to October 2017 after this exchange:

http://i.imgur.com/wZRmPgv.jpg

...

He came back in October with a mix of Brexit angst and trad-orbit. Dribbled to a handful of posts in Nov/Dec without undue or escalating criticism or passion. And blazed out in Dec with this overreaction to two wrongs making too much right. Ie He ran, he wasn’t chased.

http://i.imgur.com/nBDokhy.jpg

Which advances my theory that PhDs are better markers for intellectual sensitivity (and OCD) than overall ‘cleverness’. But I digress. And certainly his fish pics delivered value.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2537

Post by Old_ones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:46 pm

I don't see Brive and CaptainFluffyBunny's positions as necessarily being mutually exclusive. We know that Pitters have gone for different reasons, and that a major reason was that FTB ripped itself apart in 2015, and a lot of the better known SJWs in the community lost their standing around that time. Brive seems to be right about people leaving for a variety of reasons around that time frame. Also, IIRC a lot of pitters (Real Horrorshow, Blueshift Rhino, Billy from Occam to name a few) have just faded without any obvious indication of why they left, and there could be a number of reasons pertaining to each loss.

To CaptainFluffyBunny's point, there is an obvious divide at the pit between anti-SJW left leaners, and people who are more right leaning. If a bunch of former pitters are posting anti-Trump stuff on twitter, then the Trumpishness of the pit could contribute to their decision not to come back to the place, even if (as Brive notes) they left for some other reason.

Personally, I would never comment on the pit if I had discovered it for the first time a month ago. I gave up on the main thread last September, because it has turned into a discussion about immigration policy, "national identity" and related nonsense, none of which I really find interesting enough to be worth discussing. There isn't enough entertaining SJW loonyness in the Trump era to sustain the discussion, and to me it feels like it is turning into an alt-right/alt-light (I honestly don't see a distinction) circle jerk. I still come to the Trump Dump mostly because it's a fun place to gloat when bad things happen to Trump. I rarely look at anti-SJW youtube channels either, anymore. A bunch of those channels have gone full retard on Trump (Sargon, I'm looking at you) and left me without any sense common cause. I don't have any space for the kind of commentator who will point out blatantly stupid and repressive positions on the SJW left but then applaud an ignorant turd as he attacks journalism, lies 50 times a day, and calls the heads of his intelligence agencies "naive," because they cautioned him about the dictators who are flattering him. When that thing is the president of my country, I care a lot less about the anti-intellectual tantrums being staged by powerless 19 year old social justice majors on college campuses.

I can only speak for myself on this, but there could be former pitters who have similar lines of thought.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2538

Post by Old_ones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Steersman wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Steersman wrote:
Barbed wire & machine-gun posts - that would do it. Or, as Anne Coulter recently suggested, planting some mines - from sea to shining sea - would work as well - and probably cheaper too. ....
The barbed wire wouldn't give much protection, they will just drape their prayer mats over it, hardly even slow them down. :twatson:
free thoughtpolice wrote: Steersman wrote:
Barbed wire & machine-gun posts - that would do it. Or, as Anne Coulter recently suggested, planting some mines - from sea to shining sea - would work as well - and probably cheaper too. ....
The barbed wire wouldn't give much protection, they will just drape their prayer mats over it, hardly even slow them down. :twatson:
LoL - some "cafeteria" or "secular" Muslim suggested recently that most Muslims would sooner leave their wives - all of them - behind than their prayer mats. Maybe a stretch, and based on some questionable assumptions. In any case, see "mines", something that the builders of the Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall didn't have access to:



But, changing gears, recollect you posting something awhile back about some particularly problematic immigrants to Canada that were brought over by some Church groups - from Thailand or Vietnam, I think - and who turned out to be less than ideal citizens, i.e., thugs. Think you also suggested that that happened in your neck of the woods - you have any links to published stories on the issue? A resolution to that problem?
Scott Adams shows the real brilliance of the wall as a talking point: that people like Scott Adams will believe in something if and only if it is simple enough for them to understand. You could call these people "concrete thinkers" but personally I prefer "blockheads".

"There is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong."
H.L. Mencken

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2539

Post by Brive1987 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:57 pm

Old_ones wrote: I don't see Brive and CaptainFluffyBunny's positions as necessarily being mutually exclusive. We know that Pitters have gone for different reasons, and that a major reason was that FTB ripped itself apart in 2015, and a lot of the better known SJWs in the community lost their standing around that time. Brive seems to be right about people leaving for a variety of reasons around that time frame. Also, IIRC a lot of pitters (Real Horrorshow, Blueshift Rhino, Billy from Occam to name a few) have just faded without any obvious indication of why they left, and there could be a number of reasons pertaining to each loss.

To CaptainFluffyBunny's point, there is an obvious divide at the pit between anti-SJW left leaners, and people who are more right leaning. If a bunch of former pitters are posting anti-Trump stuff on twitter, then the Trumpishness of the pit could contribute to their decision not to come back to the place, even if (as Brive notes) they left for some other reason.

Personally, I would never comment on the pit if I had discovered it for the first time a month ago. I gave up on the main thread last September, because it has turned into a discussion about immigration policy, "national identity" and related nonsense, none of which I really find interesting enough to be worth discussing. There isn't enough entertaining SJW loonyness in the Trump era to sustain the discussion, and to me it feels like it is turning into an alt-right/alt-light (I honestly don't see a distinction) circle jerk. I still come to the Trump Dump mostly because it's a fun place to gloat when bad things happen to Trump. I rarely look at anti-SJW youtube channels either, anymore. A bunch of those channels have gone full retard on Trump (Sargon, I'm looking at you) and left me without any sense common cause. I don't have any space for the kind of commentator who will point out blatantly stupid and repressive positions on the SJW left but then applaud an ignorant turd as he attacks journalism, lies 50 times a day, and calls the heads of his intelligence agencies "naive," because they cautioned him about the dictators who are flattering him. When that thing is the president of my country, I care a lot less about the anti-intellectual tantrums being staged by powerless 19 year old social justice majors on college campuses.

I can only speak for myself on this, but there could be former pitters who have similar lines of thought.
For years I would catch up on the Pit first thing over coffee (given time shifted activity). I was very sensitive to the diminishing quantity of catch up - which happened slowly and over time. Two to 1.5 pages was typical and then less and less and the schism faltered. I’d date the peak to just prior to Benson’s demise with the resulting fragmentation of the horde and the Orbit.

Nature abhors a vacuum. What filled our space was general banter, misc broader SJ id stuff and trans issues.

The conversation shifted to immigration and Brexit in 2016, 2017 Trumpism and from late 2017/18 extended again to alt lite vs nazis pipe laying, the response to the migration crisis, questions of National ID, American politics and the drift of applied liberalism. Which is all very intersectional.

All sides of the debates have been active, persistent and vocal.

I can understand this shifting dynamic could alienate the users wedded to common purpose directed at FTB. The alternative was a dying conversation, a Democrat / social liberal echo chamber and the elimination of wrong think.

Anyone trying to cast this site/conversational evolution as vandalism by specific individuals is missing the forest for the trees.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2540

Post by Keating » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:03 pm

Kirbmarc wrote: Today it's Northam and his blackface/hood photo, so screw him, tomorrow it might be someone who wrote than transwomen aren't real women.
Meh, I think his proposal that killing babies after birth counts as abortion was the bigger problem.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2541

Post by Old_ones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:05 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Old_ones wrote: I don't see Brive and CaptainFluffyBunny's positions as necessarily being mutually exclusive. We know that Pitters have gone for different reasons, and that a major reason was that FTB ripped itself apart in 2015, and a lot of the better known SJWs in the community lost their standing around that time. Brive seems to be right about people leaving for a variety of reasons around that time frame. Also, IIRC a lot of pitters (Real Horrorshow, Blueshift Rhino, Billy from Occam to name a few) have just faded without any obvious indication of why they left, and there could be a number of reasons pertaining to each loss.

To CaptainFluffyBunny's point, there is an obvious divide at the pit between anti-SJW left leaners, and people who are more right leaning. If a bunch of former pitters are posting anti-Trump stuff on twitter, then the Trumpishness of the pit could contribute to their decision not to come back to the place, even if (as Brive notes) they left for some other reason.

Personally, I would never comment on the pit if I had discovered it for the first time a month ago. I gave up on the main thread last September, because it has turned into a discussion about immigration policy, "national identity" and related nonsense, none of which I really find interesting enough to be worth discussing. There isn't enough entertaining SJW loonyness in the Trump era to sustain the discussion, and to me it feels like it is turning into an alt-right/alt-light (I honestly don't see a distinction) circle jerk. I still come to the Trump Dump mostly because it's a fun place to gloat when bad things happen to Trump. I rarely look at anti-SJW youtube channels either, anymore. A bunch of those channels have gone full retard on Trump (Sargon, I'm looking at you) and left me without any sense common cause. I don't have any space for the kind of commentator who will point out blatantly stupid and repressive positions on the SJW left but then applaud an ignorant turd as he attacks journalism, lies 50 times a day, and calls the heads of his intelligence agencies "naive," because they cautioned him about the dictators who are flattering him. When that thing is the president of my country, I care a lot less about the anti-intellectual tantrums being staged by powerless 19 year old social justice majors on college campuses.

I can only speak for myself on this, but there could be former pitters who have similar lines of thought.
For years I would catch up on the Pit first thing over coffee (given time shifted activity). I was very sensitive to the diminishing quantity of catch up - which happened slowly and over time. Two to 1.5 pages was typical and then less and less and the schism faltered. I’d date the peak to just prior to Benson’s demise with the resulting fragmentation of the horde and the Orbit.

Nature abhors a vacuum. What filled our space was general banter, misc broader SJ id stuff and trans issues.

The conversation shifted to immigration and Brexit in 2016, 2017 Trumpism and from late 2017/18 extended again to alt lite vs nazis pipe laying, the response to the migration crisis, questions of National ID, American politics and the drift of applied liberalism. Which is all very intersectional.

All sides of the debates have been active, persistent and vocal.

I can understand this shifting dynamic could alienate the users wedded to common purpose directed at FTB. The alternative was a dying conversation, a Democrat / social liberal echo chamber and the elimination of wrong think.

Anyone trying to cast this site/conversational evolution as vandalism by specific individuals is missing the forest for the trees.
I don't view the direction of the pit as an act of vandalism. The pit has also alienated right wingers in various episodes. Gurugeorge and VickyCarmel left because they were posting holocaust denial and got shut down by you and some of the other people on here.

Part of my own alienation has to do with the non-alignment of the Pit discussion to my own interests and priorities. I got interested in the A/S community in the first place because I'm a proponent of science and science education. I gravitated to Dawkins and PZ Myers over the public arguments in the 00s about whether "intelligent design" should be allowed in schools and whether "accomodationism" was a sensible position for science advocacy groups who pushed evolutionary theory. I tried to reconcile myself toward the feminist crap that PZ started posting, because at the time I had respect for him, but I was always skeptical of the doctrine, and also less interested in issues of interpersonal politics between men and women or racial groups. The Grenade post was the thing that sent me over here, because IMO that was the point when PZ showed unequivocally that he doesn't give a shit about evidence or rational thought when it contradicts his ideology, and I'd had enough of the shit-flinging chimps on his blog.

So I got into a discussion about SJWs because the SJWs invaded science advocacy, not because I innately tend to gravitate toward the issues that the SJWs care about. My biggest political issues are ones that are less talked about - climate change and the development of sustainable industry. In my view our degradation of our own support system in the natural world is a bigger and more ominous sleeping giant than immigration, which I don't really care about.

Obviously, I'm not resentful that the pit didn't follow my interests. The Pit is going down the rabbit holes that most of the people here find most interesting, and that is as it should be. If anything I resent PZ and his gang of muppets for hijacking a movement about science advocacy and running it off the rails and into loony land. The supposed goals of the movement got lost in the inane struggles over what skin tone and genitals the leaders of the movement should have, and whether there should be a harassment policy at the conferences.

Honestly, the defeat of the FreeThoughtBlogs crowd seems like a pyrrhic victory to me in some sense. "Organized atheism" and "Skepticism" seem like they have more or less died out. There are still some proponents doing interesting things (Sam Harris, for instance) but its hard for me to regard either of these things as a movements anymore.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2542

Post by Keating » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:09 pm

And yeah, the Pit has been dying for a while. Most of SocJus could be attacked from the Left, but no one seems prepared to do that.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2543

Post by Keating » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:21 pm

Old_ones wrote: Honestly, the defeat of the FreeThoughtBlogs crowd seems like a pyrrhic victory to me in some sense. "Organized atheism" and "Skepticism" seem like they have more or less died out. There are still some proponents doing interesting things (Sam Harris, for instance) but its hard for me to regard either of these things as a movements anymore.
I think this was always going to be the case, and I'm sorry I didn't understand this at the time. This is really what the core of what Peterson and Harris were trying to get at. Harris thinks that if you get rid of organised religion then you can actually make progress on issues like climate change, sustainability, AI research and moral progress. I think the rise of SocJus shows why that isn't the case, and, in many ways, is just a replay of Martin Luther causing a split in the Catholic hold on Europe. That's a much deeper human problem than saying the Lords Prayer before the start of parliament. We don't have a good language for this problem devoid of its religious context.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2544

Post by Old_ones » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:28 pm

Keating wrote: And yeah, the Pit has been dying for a while. Most of SocJus could be attacked from the Left, but no one seems prepared to do that.
It has happened to some extent. Sam Harris, Brett Weinstein and Peter Boghossian have all launched some attacks against the excesses of social justice politics. There was also a small backlash against "identity politics" on the left in the US after the election of Trump. Lindsay Shepherd also considered herself a lefty at the time she played the tape of Jordan Peterson in her class. Of course none of this has had much effect on the woke lefties - they regard critics of the social justice ideology as a bunch of trogs who are "on the wrong side of history". I'm sure the discussion will continue to play out. It's hard to be a critic of SJW politics on the left, because SJWs refuse to hear a criticism without reconstructing it into a statement about the perfidy of the critic. You can't write an oped criticizing racial quotas at Harvard (just a made up hypothetical) without being remade into a white supremacist who thinks black people are too stupid to study at Harvard. That might not matter to conservative pundits and politicians, but it does matter to people in academia and on the political left.

The A/S drama and Gamergate give us a good model for how to anticipate the anti-SJW backlash in liberal politics, though. You can expect it to start with SJWs taking positions of power in liberal or academic institutions, and then overreaching with their power in stupid ways. They will advance stupid and unpopular policies and opinions with hamfisted impunity, and then be surprised as the backlash carries them away. This is how the Wilfred-Laurier drama with Shepherd happened as well. It wasn't that Rambukkana or Pimlot were teaching and studying radical identitarian nonsense that got them into trouble, it was the fact that the took it upon themselves to subject a TA to a private inquisition for daring to play a clip from public television. IMO the resolutions of the drama at Missou, Wilfred-Laurier and Evergreen State all point at the same trend, and are good signs for the direction of academia. There needs to be more smoke and fire before the public starts demanding that universities fix themselves, though. AFAIK the same thing hasn't happened in any left leaning political parties yet (unless you count the election of Trump, which I probably wouldn't) but that is probably coming. In a few years we'll get the trigglypuffs and Suey Parks of the world running for elected office, promising to "end fat shaming" or "censor the toxic masculinity in Rocky movies", and the whole world will get a chance to bask in the glory of social justice nuttery.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2545

Post by Keating » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:58 pm

Old_ones wrote: It has happened to some extent. Sam Harris, Brett Weinstein and Peter Boghossian have all launched some attacks against the excesses of social justice politics.
It was really bad that Weinstein could only get time on Fox News. No one else would give him the time of day. That's a real problem given how truly progressive Weinstein is.

I had hoped that the election of Trump would have formed a stronger backlash against SocJus. (It was one of the reasons I saw him as the lesser evil.) That hasn't happened. It is a lot more out in the open now, I suppose.

One of the more interesting things is that a lot of (formally?) left wing splinter groups are now joining forces with conservatives. TERFs and cons coming together against the trannies. More seriously, I saw an interesting talk about the left wing problems with Transexualism presented by the Heritage Foundation by left wingers who simply couldn't find anyone else prepared to give them a platform. That's a really big problem.
You can expect it to start with SJWs taking positions of power in liberal or academic institutions, and then overreaching with their power in stupid ways. They will advance stupid and unpopular policies and opinions with hamfisted impunity, and then be surprised as the backlash carries them away.
We are way, way past that. They've been in positions of power in the academy and cultural institutions for decades. Their overreaching and unpopularity is why its all blowing up all over the place. They've been gnawing at the foundations for a very long time, though, to the point that these institutions may not be salvageable.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2546

Post by Kirbmarc » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:57 pm

Keating wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: Today it's Northam and his blackface/hood photo, so screw him, tomorrow it might be someone who wrote than transwomen aren't real women.
Meh, I think his proposal that killing babies after birth counts as abortion was the bigger problem.
This is misleading, though.

The proposal is about lowering the number of doctors required to certify the need for a third trimester abortion from three to one, and extending the qualifications for third trimester abortions from risk of death or "substantial and irremediable" impairment to mental or physical health to simply threat to mental or physical health.

The "killing babies" bit wasn't in the proposal, it was in an interview about a comment that another political figure, Kathy Tran, made, where she answered to questions in a committee and said that in SOME cases abortion might be justified UP UNTIL the point of birth.

Northam was asked about Tran's comment in a radio interview, and was asked what would happen if, after a botched abortion at a very late stage in pregnancy, the child was born. Northam should have said that this was a medical decision, not part of the bill, but he mouthed off a comment about how "the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

This is controversial statement for sure, but a) it's NOT about "killing babies after birth" and b) it's NOT part of the bill. Crucially the bill doesn't say that the infant is to resuscitated only if that's what the mother and the family desired. By not making this explicit, it puts the decision of resuscitation on the doctor.

Northam (who we can now tell has some issues with "edgy" ideas) made a comment in an interview about a specific issue that might ensue with a late-term abortion which INDUCES a birth, in which case the child is stillborn and can be resuscitated, not about generically killing babies after the birth.

It was a stupid comment because that's NOT part of the bill, it's a medical issue about the specifics of an edge case that MIGHT present itself as a consequence of a BOTCHED abortion, but also in general if an abnormal pregnancy produced the birth of a stillborn child, even without a botched abortion.

So you have a controversial bill, a controversial comment and a controversial interview all meshed together and turned into a narrative of "infanticide".

The GOP, however, rapidly seized the opportunity to run a scaremongering campaign about "killing babies after birth", as if the bill was about that.

Northam was an idiot to answer a question about a complex medical issue as part of a grilling interview. We can safely say, between this and the blackface shenanigans, that he's not big on emotional intelligence.

But the GOP has also manipulated things for electoral gain, to push a scaremongering narrative of abortion being extended to mothers ordering doctors to kill children after birth.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2547

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:22 am

Keating wrote: I had hoped that the election of Trump would have formed a stronger backlash against SocJus. (It was one of the reasons I saw him as the lesser evil.) That hasn't happened. It is a lot more out in the open now, I suppose.
This is largely because Trump and the GOP have zero interest to cause a backlash against the SocJus. If anything they have every interest to feed into the SocJus controversies, to split apart the Democratic party. That's what happened with Al Franken, and to a lesser extent recently with Northam (although Northam did much to put his own head into the noose).

Trump's shenanigans, far from inducing a reflection about whether the SocJus was electorally helpful, have made many SocJus slogans noble, part of the Resistance. The idea that America is a patriarchal, white supremacist country is an easier sell when the president rants about how there "might" be Middle Eastern people in the immigrant caravan, or about how immigration of people from "shithole countries" is a huge problem compared to immigration of people from, say, Norway, or about how Mexico sends rapists and "some, maybe [...] good people", or that when actual white identitarians march and cause a death there were "good people" on both sides.

It's easier to rant about "rape culture" when the president makes off-color comments about how he'd date his own daughter if he wasn't her father, or how much he likes to kiss women immediately without even waiting, and grabbing them by the pussy because they let you do it, or about how he'd take DNA samples from Elizabeth Warren, but "in the MeToo era", he can't.

Far from being the cause of a backlash against the SocJus Trump has been a boon for the Social Justice side. Ideological radicals like Linda Sarsour and Tamika Mallory have easily taken over progressive movements by selling their identity as "oppressed POCs" under the Trumpatriarchy. Any criticism of the SocJus is dismissed as shilling or being an useful idiot for Trump. Even former neocons like Max Boot or Bill Kristol have embraced the SocJus and its lingo, and they've been welcome by it.

"Owning/triggering the libs" has become a widespread hobby of conservative/right-wing figures, which has led to defensiveness on the liberal side. When you're under attack, you tend to stick together with all people who seem on your side, even if, in a more peaceful times, you'd be slightly wary of them.

And again Trump and his cronies have no interest in opposing the spread of the SocJus. Bannon wrote about how getting the left to discuss race and gender was a boon fro the Republicans, because it divided the Democrats and made them look crazy. At least SOME of the "triggering the libs" is a deliberate tactic to make "the libs" look like a bunch of crazies, specifically targeting the craziest parts of the SocJus.

At this point there cannot be any meaningful discussion of the issues with the SocJus within the left until Trump is gone.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2548

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:27 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote: Meh, I think his proposal that killing babies after birth counts as abortion was the bigger problem.
This is misleading, though.
My point was if the right had any power in this domain, that would have been what brought him down, not the SocJus pet diversity issues.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2549

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:28 am

Kirbmarc wrote: This is largely because Trump and the GOP have zero interest to cause a backlash against the SocJus. If anything they have every interest to feed into the SocJus controversies, to split apart the Democratic party. That's what happened with Al Franken, and to a lesser extent recently with Northam (although Northam did much to put his own head into the noose).
I meant I expected better from the left. Trump was always going to Trump. I thought higher of his enemies. I was clearly wrong about that.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2550

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:32 am

Keating wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote: Meh, I think his proposal that killing babies after birth counts as abortion was the bigger problem.
This is misleading, though.
My point was if the right had any power in this domain, that would have been what brought him down, not the SocJus pet diversity issues.
But getting your enemies to get rid of one of their own is, from an amoral point of view, the best way to do it. Machiavelli and Sun Tzu recommend seeding mistrust in the enemy's side, and what better way to get them to turn on their own and use their own rules against them. If all you care about is "owning the libs", Northam offered a great change of self-ownage. And he doubled down with the stupid Michael Jackson comments.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2551

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:40 am

Red on red is never to be dismissed. It’s never the basis for sound strategy.

The focused application of force at a critical juncture works far better.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2552

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:48 am

Keating wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote: Meh, I think his proposal that killing babies after birth counts as abortion was the bigger problem.
This is misleading, though.
My point was if the right had any power in this domain, that would have been what brought him down, not the SocJus pet diversity issues.


“This is how we lose”

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2553

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:52 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote: Meh, I think his proposal that killing babies after birth counts as abortion was the bigger problem.
This is misleading, though.
My point was if the right had any power in this domain, that would have been what brought him down, not the SocJus pet diversity issues.
But getting your enemies to get rid of one of their own is, from an amoral point of view, the best way to do it. Machiavelli and Sun Tzu recommend seeding mistrust in the enemy's side, and what better way to get them to turn on their own and use their own rules against them. If all you care about is "owning the libs", Northam offered a great change of self-ownage. And he doubled down with the stupid Michael Jackson comments.
Well sure. Once (some) people on the right saw that Northam would fail by their standard, they pushed that. The same way Cernovich got James Gunn fired. That just furthers my point that the cultural power is entirely with the SocJus crowd. The true™ conservatives were only interested in the abortion angle, but that got no traction at all.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2554

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:54 am

Keating wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote: This is largely because Trump and the GOP have zero interest to cause a backlash against the SocJus. If anything they have every interest to feed into the SocJus controversies, to split apart the Democratic party. That's what happened with Al Franken, and to a lesser extent recently with Northam (although Northam did much to put his own head into the noose).
I meant I expected better from the left. Trump was always going to Trump. I thought higher of his enemies. I was clearly wrong about that.
Trump says a lot of stupid shit to make people mad. That's part of his shtick. Even when he was just a TV reality show host, he was all about being an utter cunt to upset people and get attention.

In the age of social media, when newspapers all routinely report about twitter or facebook pileups, even if it's obviously trolls and idiots doing them, Trump is the Troll President. Every stupid thing he tweets is deemed newsworthy. And he says A LOT of stupid things.

He has attacked the media as "the enemy of the people", has expressed the will to stay in power longer than his terms would allow him, and has attacked American intelligence and law enforcement institutions as if they were personal enemies of his. This has led to the widespread perception that he's just a few tweets away from an authoritarian coup to install himself as an absolute dictator.

Also he clearly and blatantly favored his families and cronies with institutional support, specific tax cuts, exemptions from rules, etc. He's on friendly terms, and in a very explicit fashion, with several dictators and various autocrats, from Duterte to the Saudis, to more recently, after a twitter spat, even Kim Jong Un of all people.

These are some of the reasons why people on the American left see him and all of his supporters and their ideas as the biggest threat to democracy worldwide. This is partly justified, partly over-hype, but it's something that Trump does everything in his power to support, even calling for military parades, or creating narratives about how he'll "lock up" his political opponents.

Now I don't think that when push comes to show he's going to be able, or even completely willing, to do all those things he said. He doesn't have absolute powers, and he's flip-flopped about many of his over the top ideas. I don't think he's a dictator in training, more like a con man who is milking stupid ideas about easy fixes to complex problems to get support from people who are all about fear-mongering over lack of religion and Scary Non White People moving in. He's more of a Berlusconi or a Huey Long than a Hitler. But he's unpredictable and erratic enough to cause panic.

In this context, is it really likely that lots of people on the left will listen to criticism about the excesses of Social Justice, when they look at worst like dumb college kids saying dumb things? When the president trolls about how much he wants to remove civil and political rights to crown himself dictator and target people he doesn't like, how many can be cool-headed enough to not react defensively?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2555

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:20 am

I've already said I was wrong for thinking higher of the left. What more do you want from me?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2556

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:29 am

Basically:

Trump: I could shoot people and not lose support! I love people who didn't get captured! Lock Hillary up! Vaccines cause autism! Global warming is a Chinese conspiracy! If CFCs cause problems in the atmosphere, how can they get there? I spray my hair in a closed bathroom LOL! News media are failing and all lying about me! My critics are the enemies of the people! Maybe the Chinese are right, term limits are a nuisance, I wish I could stay in power longer! I love Saudi Arabia, they've done nothing wrong with Kashoggi, not my business! Putin is not so bad after all! Duterte is a pretty cool guy, too!

People who aren't Trump fans: You sound like a deranged authoritarian idiot.

Trump: Mexico is sending us rapists (and some good people, maybe)! This judge is Mexican, so of course he's against me! We need a muslim ban, because they're a danger! When white identitarians have caused a death at a march, there are good guys on their sides, too, and both sides are to blame! Why we are letting people in from shithole countries like Haiti and not people from good countries like Norway? I don't know, but maybe terrorists will use the immigrant caravan!

People who aren't Trump fans: You sound like a racist asshole.

Trump: I would date my daughter if she wasn't my daughter! When I see beautiful women, I don't wait, I just kiss them! I don't care if they're married or not! My rival is a nasty woman! I fucked a pornstar while I was married, but don't believe her, she's a ugly horseface! I could take Elizabeth Warren's DNA, but in the MeToo era, not so much! LOL!

People who aren't Trump fans: Jesus Christ, I wouldn't let you close to me/my daughter. What a fucking creep.

SJWs: Trump and his people are racist, sexist, authoritarian assholes.

People who aren't Trump fans: It sounds about right, maybe not all but most are fine with it.

Critics of SJWs: Careful, the SJWs are also authoritarian assholes with bad ideas about race and gender. Here's some evidence.

SJWs: You're taking focus away from Trump. Are you working for him perhaps? Have you voted for him? Are you Republicans?

Critics of SJWs: Wait, that's not true. At least not for all of us.

Trump fans: Leftists are all crazy LOL. Listen to what these critics of SJWs have found out! And what WE have found out!

SJWs: See? SEE? We told you they were secret Trump fans!

People who aren't Trump fans: Seems legit.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2557

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:30 am

Keating wrote: I've already said I was wrong for thinking higher of the left. What more do you want from me?
Nothing, I just want to make it clear WHY the left is not keen on self-reflection under Trump.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2558

Post by MarcusAu » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:41 am

Keating wrote:
Old_ones wrote: Honestly, the defeat of the FreeThoughtBlogs crowd seems like a pyrrhic victory to me in some sense. "Organized atheism" and "Skepticism" seem like they have more or less died out. There are still some proponents doing interesting things (Sam Harris, for instance) but its hard for me to regard either of these things as a movements anymore.
I think this was always going to be the case, and I'm sorry I didn't understand this at the time. This is really what the core of what Peterson and Harris were trying to get at. Harris thinks that if you get rid of organised religion then you can actually make progress on issues like climate change, sustainability, AI research and moral progress. I think the rise of SocJus shows why that isn't the case, and, in many ways, is just a replay of Martin Luther causing a split in the Catholic hold on Europe. That's a much deeper human problem than saying the Lords Prayer before the start of parliament. We don't have a good language for this problem devoid of its religious context.
Something was going to eventually check the power of the catholic church in Europe at the time. It was a fairly worldly and political institution - so it could be challenged on what may be perceived as hypocrisy, or by others wanting to take on some of that power for themselves.

Luther probably did a net positive (though he was no angel). Nor Henry VIII, come to that.

Talking of things being 'devoid of context' though - I think religion does not make much sense without including the supernatural. Also I think that liberal interpretations such as 'many paths to the same destination' are a modern interpretation not compatible with the traditions.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2559

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:01 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Keating wrote: I've already said I was wrong for thinking higher of the left. What more do you want from me?
Nothing, I just want to make it clear WHY the left is not keen on self-reflection under Trump.
I'm sorry. I forgot how brilliant you are.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2560

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:04 am

MarcusAu wrote: Talking of things being 'devoid of context' though - I think religion does not make much sense without including the supernatural. Also I think that liberal interpretations such as 'many paths to the same destination' are a modern interpretation not compatible with the traditions.
I'm not sure I agree. I think that it has been true that there is a supernatural element to religions, but we've been moving away from that. What would you consider Scientology?

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2561

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:04 am

Maybe the supernatural element is simply a result of time.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2562

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:24 am

This MSNBC grab neatly explains why I detest the liberal media with an intensity once reserved for the horde.

http://i.imgur.com/99i1pbZ.jpg

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2563

Post by MarcusAu » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:11 am

Keating wrote:
MarcusAu wrote: Talking of things being 'devoid of context' though - I think religion does not make much sense without including the supernatural. Also I think that liberal interpretations such as 'many paths to the same destination' are a modern interpretation not compatible with the traditions.
I'm not sure I agree. I think that it has been true that there is a supernatural element to religions, but we've been moving away from that. What would you consider Scientology?
Perhaps I am being to kind (or is the right word 'accommodating'?) - but I do think that a distinction can be drawn between a religious view and a non-religious view of the world. And I think most religious people would agree, even going so far as to say that the supernatural is an essential part (and not just in a metaphorical sense).

It was a point of contention between Jordan Peterson and William Lane Craig in their recent discussion. Peterson tiptoed up to the line but did not quite commit.

Scientology can be considered a religion or not a religion depending on which definition you want to use - or for the US Government if you have been extorted to. Or perhaps as you advise we can just wait.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2564

Post by John D » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:40 am

Brive1987 wrote: This MSNBC grab neatly explains why I detest the liberal media with an intensity once reserved for the horde.

http://i.imgur.com/99i1pbZ.jpg
Oh man.... what a good weekend for news watching. I just laugh and laugh about the Northam thing. The fucking guy almost did the moonwalk on stage to prove he was a Michael Jackson fan.... but his wife stopped him. Oh my god.... I laughed so hard my dog had to leave the room from fright.

The progressive talking heads on "Meet the Press" are blubbering that the Dems can only win if they are the party of "zero tolerance" for any social failure. It doesn't matter how small the slight and it doesn't matter if the issue was from decades ago. ZERO TOLERACNE. Haha. This is so fun to watch. Zero tolerance always goes wrong. You end up kicking a 7 year old boy out of school for a week for making a gun out of construction paper. I really love watching the Dems set themselves on fire. No politician can survive a zero tolerance policy... because they are all self-important ass holes.... that is why they are politicians. Wow... it's gonna be great.

I am not historically a Republican voter and have never voted for a Republican president in my life. But... I hate almost every policy the Dems are promoting right now... so I do enjoy their crazy racist and ignorant ranting. Middle America watched in dismay as they proposed 4th trimester abortions and propose 100% gun bans in some states. The right wing is correct when they claim any infringement of individual rights is a slippery slope. The left never knows when to stop. "Abort a baby after it has been delivered.... sure... why not?" Yikes!!!!!!

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2565

Post by Sunder » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:46 am

Nobody actually cares if Northam goes down. This isn't a Franken redux where you've got a genuine party leading light getting snuffed out, weakening Dems as a whole. This guy will be gone and forgotten in a month and the world will keep on turning.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2566

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:02 pm


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2567

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:04 pm

During the 2016 election, I seem to recall myself and others predicting that a Trump win would embolden and strengthen the far left. As I recall, we were mocked. Whattyaknow.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2568

Post by MarcusAu » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:15 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: During the 2016 election, I seem to recall myself and others predicting that a Trump win would embolden and strengthen the far left. As I recall, we were mocked. Whattyaknow.
Well, he manages to balance things out by emboldening the far right as well.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2569

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:28 pm

Sunder wrote: Nobody actually cares if Northam goes down. This isn't a Franken redux where you've got a genuine party leading light getting snuffed out, weakening Dems as a whole. This guy will be gone and forgotten in a month and the world will keep on turning.
The story isn’t really about Northam. It’s the momentary compelling car wreak of a political zeppelin moonwalking to destruction. Secondly, and more pointedly, it’s the liberal response. Especially measured against Doctors “having conversations”.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2570

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:34 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: During the 2016 election, I seem to recall myself and others predicting that a Trump win would embolden and strengthen the far left. As I recall, we were mocked. Whattyaknow.
The counterview was that a Trump victory would be caused by the perceived excesses of the liberal-left.

That truthism quickly morphed to model based on inherent American racism. :bjarte:

Though, given Chicago is apparently “MAGA Country” complete with rope and bleach lynchings :lol: maybe there’s life in them bones.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2571

Post by John D » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:35 pm

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: During the 2016 election, I seem to recall myself and others predicting that a Trump win would embolden and strengthen the far left. As I recall, we were mocked. Whattyaknow.
I remember this discussion and you were right. The far left is going further left... abortions after delivery... honestly.... I can't wrap my head around this.

I don't remember my exact comment back then, but I suspect that I agreed with you at the time. I also think I might have said something like "okay!... bring it."

I think things will get more angry before we get through this turmoil. A bit of chaos is in order.

Perhaps things will reach some kind of resolution (in ten years or so).

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2572

Post by Kirbmarc » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:37 pm

Brive1987 wrote:
Sunder wrote: Nobody actually cares if Northam goes down. This isn't a Franken redux where you've got a genuine party leading light getting snuffed out, weakening Dems as a whole. This guy will be gone and forgotten in a month and the world will keep on turning.
The story isn’t really about Northam. It’s the momentary compelling car wreak of a political zeppelin moonwalking to destruction. Secondly, and more pointedly, it’s the liberal response. Especially measured against Doctors “having conversations”.
The part in bold is pure wishful thinking on your part. If anything this brouhaha has made the woke stronger and bolder in asking for vetting of Democratic candidates. Trump is ennobling them and there'll be lots of salt spilled from the alt-right when he loses in 2020. Not to mention the fact that the whole debate on integration will likely devolve into accusation of racism, no matter how reasonable the concerns are.

The Trump-kins who giggle about how Northam has "proved" that "the Democrats are the real racists" are idiots if they think that this will somehow hurt the Dems rather than simply making them double down on the SocJus.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2573

Post by Lsuoma » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:39 pm

Now this really IS the Trump Dump thread...

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2574

Post by John D » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
The Trump-kins who giggle about how Northam has "proved" that "the Democrats are the real racists" are idiots if they think that this will somehow hurt the Dems rather than simply making them double down on the SocJus.
They will double down on SocJus, I agree.... and that's why they will lose in 2020. Why do you think they will increase their chances in 2020 if they go further left? This is a very dubious analysis.

My wife is really pro-choice and always votes for Democrats.... but she was so disgusted by these 3rd tri abortion bills that it actually makes her feel physically sick.... Seriously.


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2575

Post by Brive1987 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:51 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:
Sunder wrote: Nobody actually cares if Northam goes down. This isn't a Franken redux where you've got a genuine party leading light getting snuffed out, weakening Dems as a whole. This guy will be gone and forgotten in a month and the world will keep on turning.
The story isn’t really about Northam. It’s the momentary compelling car wreak of a political zeppelin moonwalking to destruction. Secondly, and more pointedly, it’s the liberal response. Especially measured against Doctors “having conversations”.
The part in bold is pure wishful thinking on your part. If anything this brouhaha has made the woke stronger and bolder in asking for vetting of Democratic candidates. Trump is ennobling them and there'll be lots of salt spilled from the alt-right when he loses in 2020. Not to mention the fact that the whole debate on integration will likely devolve into accusation of racism, no matter how reasonable the concerns are.

The Trump-kins who giggle about how Northam has "proved" that "the Democrats are the real racists" are idiots if they think that this will somehow hurt the Dems rather than simply making them double down on the SocJus.
The “moonwalking” reference should have alerted you that the “momentary” diversion aspect relates to Northams impeding bloody end. Not the Democrats.

Really Kirb. Adjust your trigger settings.

The salient point of course is that the progressives demonstrated zero limits on either their indifference to independent nascent life or their SJ purity spiral. 1984 indeed.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2576

Post by Steersman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:14 pm

free thoughtpolice wrote: Steersman wrote:
But, changing gears, recollect you posting something awhile back about some particularly problematic immigrants to Canada that were brought over by some Church groups - from Thailand or Vietnam, I think - and who turned out to be less than ideal citizens, i.e., thugs. Think you also suggested that that happened in your neck of the woods - you have any links to published stories on the issue? A resolution to that problem
I don't have any links on this, it happened from the late 1970s to the last I heard around the mid-late 1980s. Those fuckers got away with all sorts of crap for a long time, getting let off the hook over and over again.
<snip>

You could try and look some of that up I suppose but it was long ago and sparsely reported. ....
Thanks for the info - I'll maybe try to do some digging; an in-law has lived on the Island his whole life so might recollect some of the story.

But sure a lotta people finding out - through frequently painful object lessons - the truth of the adage about good intentions and the road to hell. I've periodically quoted the quip of Sir Wm Stephenson [Man Called Intrepid] about how many are unclear on the difference between being high-minded and being soft-headed - our "illustrious" PM Justin Trudeau - AKA #JihadiJustin - being a case in point. Something along that line from the frontlines of the clusterfuck of transgenderism:



Ran across an adage from Lord Acton ("power corrupts ...") long time ago - something about it being unwise to pass laws that have manifest flaws in them on the assumption that they won't ever be misused - but haven't been able to track down the specific phrasing and source.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2577

Post by Keating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:03 pm

John D wrote: They will double down on SocJus, I agree.... and that's why they will lose in 2020. Why do you think they will increase their chances in 2020 if they go further left? This is a very dubious analysis.
Well, yeah. That's why I thought better of the left. I expected Trump to be a one term president.

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2578

Post by Steersman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:11 pm

Old_ones wrote: <snip>
Personally, I would never comment on the pit if I had discovered it for the first time a month ago. I gave up on the main thread last September, because it has turned into a discussion about immigration policy, "national identity" and related nonsense, none of which I really find interesting enough to be worth discussing. .... I don't have any space for the kind of commentator who will point out blatantly stupid and repressive positions on the SJW left but then applaud an ignorant turd as he attacks journalism, lies 50 times a day, and calls the heads of his intelligence agencies "naive," because they cautioned him about the dictators who are flattering him. When that thing is the president of my country, I care a lot less about the anti-intellectual tantrums being staged by powerless 19 year old social justice majors on college campuses.

I can only speak for myself on this, but there could be former pitters who have similar lines of thought.
Looks like those "powerless 19 year-old social justice warriors" are just the tip of a very problematic iceberg, the first "flowers" - so to speak - of the rather twisted ideologies that have rotted out most of academia - at least the "humanities" with some serious encroachments on the science side:
Time for the Academy To Put Its Pencils Down

Don’t dismiss the petulant students at Yale and elsewhere

—they’re here to tell us what we should’ve known a long time ago: American academia is beyond salvation ....
As I've said periodically - more or less from square one (November 8, 2016), Trump looked to be - and has more or less proven to be - a bull in the proverbial china shop, and that the "cure" might well turn out to be worse than the "disease". But seems rather hard to deny that there was a whole bunch of crockery that needed smashing that wouldn't otherwise be receiving its just desserts if he hadn't been elected - cases in point being transgenderism, Muslim immigration, border protections, Title IX, thuggish actions of the Chinese, and - to a lesser extent - the encroachments of the "Military Industrial Complex".

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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2579

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:56 pm


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Re: The Trump Dump!

#2580

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:40 pm


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