Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Ape+lust]

Happy Birthday Abbie!

http://imgur.com/T8NcNL5.jpg

[codelette]

Peezus linked to the article from here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... e-poseurs/

He writes:

Why do we pay a woman who has a Master’s degree in sociology far less than a man who has an engineering degree, when both have invested the same amount in their education and are working just as hard in an important job?

Men with sociology degrees get paid less than women with engineering degrees too.

It's almost like it's the degree and the employment opportunities it provides that confers the higher salary rather than the person's genitals.

Cause any idiot can study Sociology. Humanities were the classes we took for fun while in Engineering school. Easy As, btw.

[codelette]

And fuck off, shitlords.

[tina]

"These are not nice stories.They’re filthy. They’re fearless. Some are even funny."


"A student, hungry for punishment, seeks it from a professor who should know better"

*cough*

http://www.freezepage.com/1429655111SGOPVNNKXX

:cdc:

[RebeccaB]

Old one wrote:

If I was 18 and my only educational choices were to go to trade school and become an electrician or go to university and get a Ph.D. in philosophy, I'd become an electrician. I'm pretty sure that would be the rout to the better career. Unfortunately the conventional wisdom would

My friend's son is a workaholic now working long hours on electricity transmission line construction in remote locations. He cleared $150,000 last year, owns among other things his own home, and is debt-free.
Not bad for a 25 year old with high school and a bit of trade school.
I'm unsure about whether he thinks Jebus existed or not though. :think:

Bragtime: My daughter dipped her toe in university a few years ago, didn't much like it, and shifted direction to an apprenticeship program in carpentry, mixing on-the-job training with breaks for coursework at a technical school. She gets her Red Seal/journeyman status later this week, loves the work, gets on very well with her coworkers on construction sites, was well-paid throughout her apprenticeship, and now has her pick of jobs. Doesn't hurt, as well, that she's married to a foreman electrician making about 200K a year. She was worried we'd be disappointed in her choice of career, since we're both academics - in fact, we thought it was a brilliant choice, and we couldn't be prouder of her. [/brag]

[Tigzy]

"These are not nice stories.They’re filthy. They’re fearless. Some are even funny."


"A student, hungry for punishment, seeks it from a professor who should know better"

*cough*

http://www.freezepage.com/1429655111SGOPVNNKXX

:cdc:

“Bending is excellently written — and it’s not the usual one-dimensional porn I’ve encountered on the internet (you know what I mean: the ‘Tab A goes into Slot B’ kind of porn that reads like an Ikea manual, with lube). It’s the kind of porn that explores what people are actually thinking and feeling, and it’s stronger for it.”
-PZ Myers, Pharyngula

[codelette]

Plus, why didn't he compare Nurses and Engineers. Registered nurses make salaries comparable with various engineering field. It is also a not career for the kind of weaklings studying masters in Sociology. Nurses are pure badassery.

[mothmantis]

An interesting article about SJWs. Nothing new for this forum, but a great analysis of why they're re authoritarian, and why they're a threat to liberalism.

Ah, so my observation of how the extreme left and right bend towards each other actually has a name -- the Horseshoe Theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

I've also observed that it's not uncommon for people at the ends to switch sides and abandon old ideologies, often in a dramatic fashion, for new. Though it seems to (mostly) be from the authoritarian left to the authoritarian right. But not always, I'm sure.

Das Neato.

Personally, I went from Authoritarian Right to Libertarian Left. Of course it took about 4 years and started with me being a homeless junkie that-in the process of cleaning up in a Sally in south Texas while waiting for a court date-realized he had been (gasp) wrong about some bedrock TRUTH that had been literally and figuratively beaten into his head from childhood. From there, since I didn't have reliable internet, anyone I could really trust, and was an undiagnosed autistic (Aspergers-type,) it was a long, arduous journey of picking apart and examining everything I thought was true while living in a halfway house with, basically, background characters from Breaking Bad. The halfway house had internet at least.

Spoiler: once I learned what critical thinking actually was, and how to apply it to myself the process got a lot easier.

Probably there's other, less horrible an dehumanizing ways to do it, but I don't see the Rageblogger Community coming around to a more reasonable worldview while there's still potential ego-stroking and precious, precious attention to be garnered from the "X are fascists!" "No, Y are really the fascists!" bullshit.

How's that joke go? The Jews say the Muslims are wrong, the Muslims say the Christians are wrong, the Christians say the Jews are wrong, the atheists say "You're all right." This seems like it's that, but with bachelor's degrees, pink hair, and mystery genitals.

Congrats to Parsehole for winning the Internet, incidentally.

[codelette]

PS. Plethora of typos on my previous message.

[tina]

"These are not nice stories.They’re filthy. They’re fearless. Some are even funny."


"A student, hungry for punishment, seeks it from a professor who should know better"

*cough*

http://www.freezepage.com/1429655111SGOPVNNKXX

:cdc:

“Bending is excellently written — and it’s not the usual one-dimensional porn I’ve encountered on the internet (you know what I mean: the ‘Tab A goes into Slot B’ kind of porn that reads like an Ikea manual, with lube). It’s the kind of porn that explores what people are actually thinking and feeling, and it’s stronger for it.”
-PZ Myers, Pharyngula

What a monumental CUNT Regretta is. Fluevogs must've worn out too. :violin:

[Tribble]

http://pioneersofbearddom.com/wp-conten ... -at-1x.jpg

Harland David "Colonel" Sanders never actual fought for his country (or any other). He also did no public service and treated his wife in a manner later emulated by Dr. Richard Carrier. It's not even clear if it was his idea to cook chicken in a pressure-cooker stuff with herbs and spices.

In contrast, Zuǒ Zōngtáng (known to Americans as "General Tso") was a brilliant military leader (winning battles even when out-numbered), governor of two provinces, and never slept with any woman that he wasn't married to. The chicken that bears his name was created to encourage and strengthen the volunteers who helped him to put down the Taiping Rebellion.

General Tso was born 78 years before "Colonel" Sanders.

Please stop with the cultural appropriations.[/quote]

He was a Kentucky Colonel. Which isn't a military rank and he wasn't making those claims.

Kentucky colonel is the highest title of honor bestowed by the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Commissions for Kentucky colonels are given by the Governor and the Secretary of State to individuals in recognition of noteworthy accomplishments and outstanding service to a community, state or the nation. The sitting governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky bestows the honor of a colonel's Commission, by issuance of letters patent.

I had a client who was a semi-famous bluegrass musician and was awarded a Kentucky Colonel commission.

[Skep tickle]

Old one wrote:

If I was 18 and my only educational choices were to go to trade school and become an electrician or go to university and get a Ph.D. in philosophy, I'd become an electrician. I'm pretty sure that would be the rout to the better career. Unfortunately the conventional wisdom would

My friend's son is a workaholic now working long hours on electricity transmission line construction in remote locations. He cleared $150,000 last year, owns among other things his own home, and is debt-free.
Not bad for a 25 year old with high school and a bit of trade school.
I'm unsure about whether he thinks Jebus existed or not though. :think:

Bragtime: My daughter dipped her toe in university a few years ago, didn't much like it, and shifted direction to an apprenticeship program in carpentry, mixing on-the-job training with breaks for coursework at a technical school. She gets her Red Seal/journeyman status later this week, loves the work, gets on very well with her coworkers on construction sites, was well-paid throughout her apprenticeship, and now has her pick of jobs. Doesn't hurt, as well, that she's married to a foreman electrician making about 200K a year. She was worried we'd be disappointed in her choice of career, since we're both academics - in fact, we thought it was a brilliant choice, and we couldn't be prouder of her. [/brag]

:banana-dance: :handgestures-thumbup: :banana-dance:

Good for her! And for you as supportive parents!

[jjbinx007]

Godfrey's fame spreads and becomes legendary:

[youtube]IXz7LTItF4s[/youtube]

[Aneris]

Since Submariner reminded me, with his recent article:
http://skeptischism.com/periscopedepth/ ... lt-part-2/

Some old warmed over stuff, since understanding SJWs seems of greater interest again. Here are some things I remembered I wrote but couldn't find the one the scout-cavalry-priest model h/t Submariner, here, that could be seen as detail view.

Here is one was an attempt at explaining the mindset from a community point of view, how or why Pharyngula and then FTB perhaps turned out the way they eventually did. I got the impression that only they see each other as humans and people worth talking to (and more importantly impress), they are each other's audience, whereas detractors are merely cannonfodder, NPCs, means to refine ideology and show off virtues.
Pharyngula: From Creationists to Rape Apologists

Now with that, here is the high level and overview stuff:
This one looks at left-right politics, and what I then called progressive authoritarianism. I later found that progressive attitudes aren't as characteristic as they first seemed. Shunning and shaming and social control appear more important.
Progressive Authoritarianism

Further evolved view that social justice warriors, to me, show fascistic tendencies, with a brainstormy list...
Social Justice Fascism

Some more on SJW Authoritarianism:
Social Justice Warriors and Right Wing Authoritarianism
Guest post: Linda Calhoun reviews “The Authoritarians”

Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing ... itarianism

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I believe that PZ may have once compared Ophelia Benson to Marie Curie, but I'm not sure (it might have been someone else). Does anyone else remember it?

Marie Curie was once described as "a young Ophelia Benson."

[RebeccaB]

Bragtime: My daughter dipped her toe in university a few years ago, didn't much like it, and shifted direction to an apprenticeship program in carpentry, mixing on-the-job training with breaks for coursework at a technical school. She gets her Red Seal/journeyman status later this week, loves the work, gets on very well with her coworkers on construction sites, was well-paid throughout her apprenticeship, and now has her pick of jobs. Doesn't hurt, as well, that she's married to a foreman electrician making about 200K a year. She was worried we'd be disappointed in her choice of career, since we're both academics - in fact, we thought it was a brilliant choice, and we couldn't be prouder of her. [/brag]

:banana-dance: :handgestures-thumbup: :banana-dance:

Good for her! And for you as supportive parents!

Thank you! :D

[katamari Damassi]

Better article on Adderall misuse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/us/wo ... drugs.html

Does anyone else get annoyed by this? Where people are feigning sickness to get speed so that they can get ahead of other workers?

I take Adderall. It's keeps me functional, not pulling all nighters. Maybe it's a crutch, but some people need crutches. You wouldn't kick a crutch out from under a cripple would you ableist shitlord?

[RebeccaB]

So there's this:
http://www.themarysue.com/sexual-harass ... lebration/

I exited the room and was standing in the crowded hall area with my fellow panelists and friends. I was chatting with one of my male friends and we were both also looking down at our phones. Suddenly I felt something behind me, brushing at my skirt as if something was lifting it up. I quickly stepped forward and spun around. Now in front of me were three guys, dressed in Jedi robes. I could see one bro quickly hiding something behind his body. At first I thought it was a lightsaber but reflecting on it, I’m now positive it was a selfie stick. It disappeared from my view very quickly. A different bro, with a huge smile on his face, said, “Oops, sorry about that, it was an accident.” All of this – from first feeling the brush against my skirt to the rehearsed apology – went by in a flash, less than five seconds probably.

That was the "sexual harassment". The comments are largely about the wickedness of taking upskirt photos with selfie sticks. The friend who shared this on FB (who volunteers at ComicExpo in Calgary, and is deeply anti-GG) tied it into the general evilness of the Honey Badger Brigade.

Alternate scenario: crowded room in Star Wars con; guy in Jedi robe isn't careful with his lightsabre, accidently lifts a skirt as he brushes past. Apologizes. Moves on. End of story.

[Really?]

So there's this:
http://www.themarysue.com/sexual-harass ... lebration/

I exited the room and was standing in the crowded hall area with my fellow panelists and friends. I was chatting with one of my male friends and we were both also looking down at our phones. Suddenly I felt something behind me, brushing at my skirt as if something was lifting it up. I quickly stepped forward and spun around. Now in front of me were three guys, dressed in Jedi robes. I could see one bro quickly hiding something behind his body. At first I thought it was a lightsaber but reflecting on it, I’m now positive it was a selfie stick. It disappeared from my view very quickly. A different bro, with a huge smile on his face, said, “Oops, sorry about that, it was an accident.” All of this – from first feeling the brush against my skirt to the rehearsed apology – went by in a flash, less than five seconds probably.

That was the "sexual harassment". The comments are largely about the wickedness of taking upskirt photos with selfie sticks. The friend who shared this on FB (who volunteers at ComicExpo in Calgary, and is deeply anti-GG) tied it into the general evilness of the Honey Badger Brigade.

Alternate scenario: crowded room in Star Wars con; guy in Jedi robe isn't careful with his lightsabre, accidently lifts a skirt as he brushes past. Apologizes. Moves on. End of story.

If we learned nothing else from that video from early today, it's that literally everything is rape.

I just wish those goddamn bros would stop using language to dehumanize women, strip their humanity from them and create the idea that all women are the same. Cut that out, bros.

[EdwardGemmer]

So there's this:
http://www.themarysue.com/sexual-harass ... lebration/

I exited the room and was standing in the crowded hall area with my fellow panelists and friends. I was chatting with one of my male friends and we were both also looking down at our phones. Suddenly I felt something behind me, brushing at my skirt as if something was lifting it up. I quickly stepped forward and spun around. Now in front of me were three guys, dressed in Jedi robes. I could see one bro quickly hiding something behind his body. At first I thought it was a lightsaber but reflecting on it, I’m now positive it was a selfie stick. It disappeared from my view very quickly. A different bro, with a huge smile on his face, said, “Oops, sorry about that, it was an accident.” All of this – from first feeling the brush against my skirt to the rehearsed apology – went by in a flash, less than five seconds probably.

That was the "sexual harassment". The comments are largely about the wickedness of taking upskirt photos with selfie sticks. The friend who shared this on FB (who volunteers at ComicExpo in Calgary, and is deeply anti-GG) tied it into the general evilness of the Honey Badger Brigade.

Alternate scenario: crowded room in Star Wars con; guy in Jedi robe isn't careful with his lightsabre, accidently lifts a skirt as he brushes past. Apologizes. Moves on. End of story.

Bros in Jedi robes ruin everything.

[Really?]

So there's this:
http://www.themarysue.com/sexual-harass ... lebration/

I exited the room and was standing in the crowded hall area with my fellow panelists and friends. I was chatting with one of my male friends and we were both also looking down at our phones. Suddenly I felt something behind me, brushing at my skirt as if something was lifting it up. I quickly stepped forward and spun around. Now in front of me were three guys, dressed in Jedi robes. I could see one bro quickly hiding something behind his body. At first I thought it was a lightsaber but reflecting on it, I’m now positive it was a selfie stick. It disappeared from my view very quickly. A different bro, with a huge smile on his face, said, “Oops, sorry about that, it was an accident.” All of this – from first feeling the brush against my skirt to the rehearsed apology – went by in a flash, less than five seconds probably.

That was the "sexual harassment". The comments are largely about the wickedness of taking upskirt photos with selfie sticks. The friend who shared this on FB (who volunteers at ComicExpo in Calgary, and is deeply anti-GG) tied it into the general evilness of the Honey Badger Brigade.

Alternate scenario: crowded room in Star Wars con; guy in Jedi robe isn't careful with his lightsabre, accidently lifts a skirt as he brushes past. Apologizes. Moves on. End of story.

Bros in Jedi robes ruin everything.

Maybe if women talked to bros in Jedi robes in high school, we wouldn't be in this feminism mess.

[katamari Damassi]

I would give my first born to see Ra return from Ireland wearing a red jersey.

Shatterface

Ra has to be having a long dark night of the soul. He knows he's hitched his wagon to a falling star. He wants a career in skepticism, but he's associated himself with toxic rage bloggers earning the derision and ridicule of the mainstream atheists/skeptics, but his wife is a flown blown SJW(she posts more on his blog than he does), and she apparently keeps his balls in jar.

[CuntajusRationality]

"These are not nice stories.They’re filthy. They’re fearless. Some are even funny."

"A student, hungry for punishment, seeks it from a professor who should know better"

*cough*

http://www.freezepage.com/1429655111SGOPVNNKXX

:cdc:

“Bending is excellently written — and it’s not the usual one-dimensional porn I’ve encountered on the internet (you know what I mean: the ‘Tab A goes into Slot B’ kind of porn that reads like an Ikea manual, with lube). It’s the kind of porn that explores what people are actually thinking and feeling, and it’s stronger for it.”
-PZ Myers, Pharyngula

What a monumental CUNT Regretta is. Fluevogs must've worn out too. :violin:

Greta Christina, author of Bending: Dirty Kinky Stories About Pain, Power, Religion, Unicorns, & More, a book of "erotic stories... written to get you hard and wet" including stuff that's "borderline consensual or not at all consensual," think's Baby It's Cold Outside, the holiday song, is too "rapey" and that it reinforces rape culture.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2014/ ... outside-2/

I’ve been seeing discussion recently about the song “Baby, It’s Cold Outside.” It’s unsurprising, what with (a) it being the winter holiday season, and (b) there being a lot of discussion of rape culture. Yes, the song is troubling at best and rapey at worst (more on that after the video).

When pop culture reinforces the idea that ignoring boundaries is part of a flirtatious game, it doesn’t just encourage the recipients of attention to say No when they really mean Yes, and to think that if someone takes No for an answer it means they really don’t like them. It encourages pursuers to think that No means Yes, or that it means Maybe, or that it means “I want you to keep trying.” And that makes them more likely to push past someone else’s boundaries.

In other words, she believes that people might be negatively influenced, and that rape culture is reinforced, by words in a holiday song. Yet somehow she doesn't think her rape-porn might pose the same problem.

Every time one of those smear-mongers tosses out the rape-apologist label, they should be reminded that Greta Christina writes and makes money from rape-porn, and that PZ Myers publicly approves of and endorses this.

[free thoughtpolice]

Dawkbros in togas are the worst of the worst.

[deLurch]

I would give my first born to see Ra return from Ireland wearing a red jersey.

Shatterface

Ra has to be having a long dark night of the soul. He knows he's hitched his wagon to a falling star. He wants a career in skepticism, but he's associated himself with toxic rage bloggers earning the derision and ridicule of the mainstream atheists/skeptics, but his wife is a flown blown SJW(she posts more on his blog than he does), and she apparently keeps his balls in jar.

Ra hitching his wagon to FtB was his choice, and that was done well after the craziness of this stuff was well apparent.

As to his wife being "full blown SJW," without evidence I am not ready to accept that. Even if someone happens to take an SJW stance or two, that could be in part due to ignorance. Or if they hold true feminist ideas such as Patriarchy, or a few other such things, I would not be ready to toss them out with the bath water.

For me, a dividing lines are if:
A) They are tossing out lies they fully well know are not true in order to smear someone who does not agree with their ideas.
B) They try to get someone fired for not agreeing with their idealogical.
C) They witch someone for being neutral in a idealogical fight.

[deLurch]

If anyone hasn't seen "The Grey" starring Liam Neeson, watch it. It's fucking incredible.
[youtube]m_-zWeF2QMs[/youtube]

Thank you for the recommendation. I enjoyed it.

[conch2o]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh87 ... n%20Ra.jpg

The Famous elevator

No fucking way. Is this real? There is either a backstory about "fat old me is screwed now", or this is a deliberate tour definitely fuckyou to Becky.

[Billie from Ockham]

He was a Kentucky Colonel. Which isn't a military rank and he wasn't making those claims.

Knee-jerk responses: (1) I never said that he made any claims and (2) you're kind of missing my point.

Polo-shirt response: thanks for your valuable input; it's important to give the whole story.

Sorry. Jerry Coyne being an a-hole annoyed me today.

[deLurch]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh87 ... n%20Ra.jpg

The Famous elevator

No fucking way. Is this real? There is either a backstory about "fat old me is screwed now", or this is a deliberate tour definitely fuckyou to Becky.

Nah. I can see any number of people from either side (or neutrals) taking their photo at the elevator for the 'hey, look where I was at' factor alone.

[Really?]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh87 ... n%20Ra.jpg

The Famous elevator

No fucking way. Is this real? There is either a backstory about "fat old me is screwed now", or this is a deliberate tour definitely fuckyou to Becky.

Nah. I can see any number of people from either side (or neutrals) taking their photo at the elevator for the 'hey, look where I was at' factor alone.

If that really IS The Elevator, I can see why management shut it down for posterity and to break the curse. I hope Mrs. Ra is having a good time. She seems pretty unimpressed in all of the pictures.

[free thoughtpolice]

Really said:

If that really IS The Elevator, I can see why management shut it down for posterity and to break the curse. I hope Mrs. Ra is having a good time. She seems pretty unimpressed in all of the pictures.

What do you expect? She is standing in front of a sacred memorial to the martyrdom of St. Becky, of course she will out of respect maintain a solemn aspect.
:snooty:

[deLurch]

I hope Mrs. Ra is having a good time. She seems pretty unimpressed in all of the pictures.

Some people don't get excited about photos. Especially if there are many taken. "Stand here so we can take a photo." Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Most people don't get into it. Mr. Ra seems to have his default expression of a slightly arched eyebrow.

Being "photogenic" is a bit of an art form in and of itself when it comes to posed photos (which tend to be the bulk of the ones taken). Sometimes a good photographer can coax a bit of personality out of their subjects. But for everyone else, either they have become good at a good fake smile, or they like to ham it up so they are actually having fun with the photo taking process.

[Aneris]

[youtube]beY-inhk4fQ[/youtube]
Pardon my schoolboy error.

"The British Library has just opened a Michael Nugent wing."

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Great video.

:D And who could find fault, SJWs live in another universe which must be explained as well. Things are even more bizarre when you put the stories together, which is almost impossible in some detail, hence Shatterface's onion layers. Try to imagine this one, all interrelated:

1. Watson's CFI talk, real Elevatorgate: She nukes Stef McGraw with rape culture (the Original Smear) out of nowhere. Plus: Watson is known and “privileged”, and misrepresents someone in person, and by name in an extreme way.
2. Community Flame War: Dawkins' “Dear Muslima” — Watson makes it about herself, everyone forgets the previous thing, and this is now super mean. See the paralell. Dawkins is certainly far more known, but in the context he's on enemy territory, didn't directly address Watson, PZ Myers already sided with Watson, she herself was already a known speaker: ergo, the outrage is completely on the false “privilege delusion” — upsidedown I
3. Rebecca Watson declares all things Dawkins boycott.
4. PZ Myers denies boycott, against common sense, 50 or so mentions in her own comments, and media articles. Again, misogynists are blamed.
5. PZ “blackballs” Abbie Smith, says he would not show up when she's invited to speak. At the same time: old white dudebro Dawkins versus poor woman Rebecca Watson. Dawkins did what exactly? He wrote a comments. Upsidedown II
6. It's maintained the Slymepit hates women, and like all dudebros don't want women near prominent roles, hang out in woman's comment section, support Abbie Smith (and McGraw and Kirby), and found the Slymepit there... meanwhile the “feminists“ and “pro women people” move on and found a network, run by two chaps, PZ Myers and Ed Brayton. Upsidedown III
7. Now things get really weird: Richard Dawkins is overheard to “blackball” Rebecca Watson. Major outrage on principle. Here things bend and fold backwards: what about PZ's “blackballing”, what's actually the problem when Watson anyway said she'd stay away from everything Dawkins?
8. Weirder and weirder: AA state Watson wasn't on the roster anyway...
9. and another notch: PZ Myers joins Dawkins thrashing, rescinds his “blackballing” in the same go...
10. Now: Retconning the retcon: Elevatorgate is outrage by misogynists over “guys don't do that” remark...

1. Upsidedown IV: comment section rapist, gets love and support at FTb (Ogvorbis) nothing of the sort here or at MNs
2. Upsidedown V: The safe space fails: Elyse whose story initiated stunned silence thread flounced
3. Upsidedown VI: Greta's rape porn fantasies, PZ Myers endorsement. Nothing of the sort here or with MN.
4. Upsidedown VII: PZ Myers et al support Anita Sarkeesian, where he is on record to endorse rape porn (whereas for Gamergate the freedom to do art is on principle, i.e. there's no high profile case where people literally endorse hookers)
5. Upsidedown VIII: cornered with a invite for sex on a stage (I saw that clearly in jest, but with SJW glasses on, it's inexcusable, see elevatorgate doublethink below)
6. Upsidedown IX: PZ Myers makes rape joke, ignored by them, they have issues with a photoshop image on a discussion of grading rapes (this might be due to inabilty or dishonesty to keep track of what's the referent, also see Carrier's ridiculous “primary resources” which are secondary or even tertiary).
7. Upsidedown X: PZ Myers is anti GamerGate, with Zoe Quinn et al, who developed Depression Quest. Yet PZ Myers makes cynical remarks about Robin Williams who committed suicide because of: depression.

It's Okay When They Do It is not even true in many cases, as it implies that “we” do certain things as well.

The pomo doublethink and redefining what some dispute is “really” about is the same they do with Michael Nugent now. Projection might be the right idea, as they quite literally throw their own issues into other people's fields, and then act outraged at what they find there.

For Elevatorgate the tactic was to have two contradictory definitions: one the “slightly bad” and minor thing, a passing “guys don't don't that” remark. Nothing important really. This is what PZ Myers maintained at the time and Richard Carrier restated recently, and the other definition is of course the rape culture nuke, originally dropped on Stef McGraw and then contained and subsequently downplayed and hidden (but not the theme of rape culture itself, which is the defacto headline over everything). With that you can play charitable-uncharitable-Theo and always pick the one you need, which they did and duped the whole US movement, which thereby demonstrated how worthless it is.

Michael Nugent must explain assumptions, his motives, the work they do, the critique, the contexts and all that because otherwise misdirection tactics and other doublethink trickery would quickly erase and then rewrite his side of the story into something the SJWs dreamed up. They succeeded in their safe spaces with it, by somehow making it all about Shermer — another Rape Culture nuke, like before. The other things are really kicking up dust as usual. Like the open letter, other FTB articles that really add nothing but are — true to the term — echoes in an echo chamber. You can't even report straight that Watson called for a boycott, without also spending some time to clear the murky waters from her dishonest editing and the various false claims around it. Or mention Benson's “sexually predatory thought leaders” remark, also in murky water from pointless edits that are just designed to obstruct but solve nothing.

TL;DR: you are forced to be throughout. What you say is otherwise incomprehenible jargon to most — like my list above and vulnerable to retcons, revision, distortion and radical reinterpretation. And because SJWs deliberately obscure with doublestandards, metadiscourse confusions, and by covering previous issues by adding more (e.g. Mehta “endorses”) to force their story on everyone.

[Billie from Ockham]

Ra hitching his wagon to FtB was his choice, and that was done well after the craziness of this stuff was well apparent.

As to his wife being "full blown SJW," without evidence I am not ready to accept that. Even if someone happens to take an SJW stance or two, that could be in part due to ignorance. Or if they hold true feminist ideas such as Patriarchy, or a few other such things, I would not be ready to toss them out with the bath water.

For me, a dividing lines are if:
A) They are tossing out lies they fully well know are not true in order to smear someone who does not agree with their ideas.
B) They try to get someone fired for not agreeing with their idealogical.
C) They witch someone for being neutral in a idealogical fight.

I agree with this and I really don't like the idea of tarring him with a brush designed for his spouse. Maybe I haven't looked for it, but I haven't seen Aron Ra do anything crazy, dishonest, or unethical. Matt Dillahunty did go over to the dark side (although he also got burned and pulled back a bit), but not Aron Ra. Or have I missed something?

[deLurch]

I think people have pointed to Ra spouting some of the feminist party lines. But I personally have not looked into it that much.

Most importantly, I believe is that Arron Ra hasn't made his bread and butter out of spreading bullshit. I am OK with people holding ideas I disagree with. I am OK with people holding ideas I consider somewhat insane. You really can't hold an 'all or nothing' view of life and expect to get anywhere worth while.

[KiwiInOz]

I think people have pointed to Ra spouting some of the feminist party lines. But I personally have not looked into it that much.

Most importantly, I believe is that Arron Ra hasn't made his bread and butter out of spreading bullshit. I am OK with people holding ideas I disagree with. I am OK with people holding ideas I consider somewhat insane. You really can't hold an 'all or nothing' view of life and expect to get anywhere worth while.

You are absolutely right.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Bros in Jedi robes ruin everything.

a lightsaber is that pocket in your, or glad are you me to see just?

yoda.jpg

(14.35 KiB) Downloaded 153 times

[Lsuoma]

So there's this:
http://www.themarysue.com/sexual-harass ... lebration/

I exited the room and was standing in the crowded hall area with my fellow panelists and friends. I was chatting with one of my male friends and we were both also looking down at our phones. Suddenly I felt something behind me, brushing at my skirt as if something was lifting it up. I quickly stepped forward and spun around. Now in front of me were three guys, dressed in Jedi robes. I could see one bro quickly hiding something behind his body. At first I thought it was a lightsaber but reflecting on it, I’m now positive it was a selfie stick. It disappeared from my view very quickly. A different bro, with a huge smile on his face, said, “Oops, sorry about that, it was an accident.” All of this – from first feeling the brush against my skirt to the rehearsed apology – went by in a flash, less than five seconds probably.

That was the "sexual harassment". The comments are largely about the wickedness of taking upskirt photos with selfie sticks. The friend who shared this on FB (who volunteers at ComicExpo in Calgary, and is deeply anti-GG) tied it into the general evilness of the Honey Badger Brigade.

Alternate scenario: crowded room in Star Wars con; guy in Jedi robe isn't careful with his lightsabre, accidently lifts a skirt as he brushes past. Apologizes. Moves on. End of story.

Bros in Jedi robes ruin everything.

Brobi-Wan Kenbrobi.

[Lsuoma]

[youtube]beY-inhk4fQ[/youtube]
Pardon my schoolboy error.

"The British Library has just opened a Michael Nugent wing."

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Great video.

:D And who could find fault, SJWs live in another universe which must be explained as well. Things are even more bizarre when you put the stories together, which is almost impossible in some detail, hence Shatterface's onion layers. Try to imagine this one, all interrelated:

1. Watson's CFI talk, real Elevatorgate: She nukes Stef McGraw with rape culture (the Original Smear) out of nowhere. Plus: Watson is known and “privileged”, and misrepresents someone in person, and by name in an extreme way.
2. Community Flame War: Dawkins' “Dear Muslima” — Watson makes it about herself, everyone forgets the previous thing, and this is now super mean. See the paralell. Dawkins is certainly far more known, but in the context he's on enemy territory, didn't directly address Watson, PZ Myers already sided with Watson, she herself was already a known speaker: ergo, the outrage is completely on the false “privilege delusion” — upsidedown I
3. Rebecca Watson declares all things Dawkins boycott.
4. PZ Myers denies boycott, against common sense, 50 or so mentions in her own comments, and media articles. Again, misogynists are blamed.
5. PZ “blackballs” Abbie Smith, says he would not show up when she's invited to speak. At the same time: old white dudebro Dawkins versus poor woman Rebecca Watson. Dawkins did what exactly? He wrote a comments. Upsidedown II
6. It's maintained the Slymepit hates women, and like all dudebros don't want women near prominent roles, hang out in woman's comment section, support Abbie Smith (and McGraw and Kirby), and found the Slymepit there... meanwhile the “feminists“ and “pro women people” move on and found a network, run by two chaps, PZ Myers and Ed Brayton. Upsidedown III
7. Now things get really weird: Richard Dawkins is overheard to “blackball” Rebecca Watson. Major outrage on principle. Here things bend and fold backwards: what about PZ's “blackballing”, what's actually the problem when Watson anyway said she'd stay away from everything Dawkins?
8. Weirder and weirder: AA state Watson wasn't on the roster anyway...
9. and another notch: PZ Myers joins Dawkins thrashing, rescinds his “blackballing” in the same go...
10. Now: Retconning the retcon: Elevatorgate is outrage by misogynists over “guys don't do that” remark...

1. Upsidedown IV: comment section rapist, gets love and support at FTb (Ogvorbis) nothing of the sort here or at MNs
2. Upsidedown V: The safe space fails: Elyse whose story initiated stunned silence thread flounced
3. Upsidedown VI: Greta's rape porn fantasies, PZ Myers endorsement. Nothing of the sort here or with MN.
4. Upsidedown VII: PZ Myers et al support Anita Sarkeesian, where he is on record to endorse rape porn (whereas for Gamergate the freedom to do art is on principle, i.e. there's no high profile case where people literally endorse hookers)
5. Upsidedown VIII: cornered with a invite for sex on a stage (I saw that clearly in jest, but with SJW glasses on, it's inexcusable, see elevatorgate doublethink below)
6. Upsidedown IX: PZ Myers makes rape joke, ignored by them, they have issues with a photoshop image on a discussion of grading rapes (this might be due to inabilty or dishonesty to keep track of what's the referent, also see Carrier's ridiculous “primary resources” which are secondary or even tertiary).
7. Upsidedown X: PZ Myers is anti GamerGate, with Zoe Quinn et al, who developed Depression Quest. Yet PZ Myers makes cynical remarks about Robin Williams who committed suicide because of: depression.

It's Okay When They Do It is not even true in many cases, as it implies that “we” do certain things as well.

The pomo doublethink and redefining what some dispute is “really” about is the same they do with Michael Nugent now. Projection might be the right idea, as they quite literally throw their own issues into other people's fields, and then act outraged at what they find there.

For Elevatorgate the tactic was to have two contradictory definitions: one the “slightly bad” and minor thing, a passing “guys don't don't that” remark. Nothing important really. This is what PZ Myers maintained at the time and Richard Carrier restated recently, and the other definition is of course the rape culture nuke, originally dropped on Stef McGraw and then contained and subsequently downplayed and hidden (but not the theme of rape culture itself, which is the defacto headline over everything). With that you can play charitable-uncharitable-Theo and always pick the one you need, which they did and duped the whole US movement, which thereby demonstrated how worthless it is.

Michael Nugent must explain assumptions, his motives, the work they do, the critique, the contexts and all that because otherwise misdirection tactics and other doublethink trickery would quickly erase and then rewrite his side of the story into something the SJWs dreamed up. They succeeded in their safe spaces with it, by somehow making it all about Shermer — another Rape Culture nuke, like before. The other things are really kicking up dust as usual. Like the open letter, other FTB articles that really add nothing but are — true to the term — echoes in an echo chamber. You can't even report straight that Watson called for a boycott, without also spending some time to clear the murky waters from her dishonest editing and the various false claims around it. Or mention Benson's “sexually predatory thought leaders” remark, also in murky water from pointless edits that are just designed to obstruct but solve nothing.

TL;DR: you are forced to be throughout. What you say is otherwise incomprehenible jargon to most — like my list above and vulnerable to retcons, revision, distortion and radical reinterpretation. And because SJWs deliberately obscure with doublestandards, metadiscourse confusions, and by covering previous issues by adding more (e.g. Mehta “endorses”) to force their story on everyone.

Agree that it's a great vid. I loved Noel Plum's non-sexist description of PeeZus as a prick-cunt or was it a cunt-prick?

[Service Dog]

All I know about Aron Ra the feminist & SJW gender-tard-- and all you need to know-- is contained in his lecture at the Sexy Secularism Conference. He simultaneously brags about-- and cries crocodile tears for-- his "macho" upbringing, peppered with Feminism 101 bumper-sticker deepity-derp...

[youtube]Dd_0hjHuDMo[/youtube]

[Noir]

[youtube]beY-inhk4fQ[/youtube]
Pardon my schoolboy error.

Oh, this is glorious. :clap:

Very inside baseball.

[dog puke]

[youtube.]beY-inhk4fQ[/youtube]
Pardon my schoolboy error.

Oh, this is glorious. :clap:

Very inside baseball.

Noir? WTF? Have you gotten permission from Steersman to use that name?

[mothmantis]

I don't read AronRa's blog (because it's on FtB,) but Ra's one of the 'YouTube atheists' I'll usually make an effort to check out whenever I see one of his videos pop up in my feed. The only time I've heard him 'being political' was putting Rick Perry deservedly on blast or covering the Schoolbook Wars or some other aspect of Texas politics as they relate to the peculiar strain of Christianity they have down there. Actual politics, in other words. I haven't seen him talk much at all about feminism/social justice warrioring beyond the sort of 'Of course I'm a feminist,' answer pretty much anyone who hasn't really looked into it would give. Similar to how most people would say 'Of course I support Autism Speaks' or 'Of course I support PETA' or whatever.

As he's probably the only blogger on FtB, other than maybe the Atheist Experience, that can consistently pull decent numbers AND attract people from outside of the echo chamber (which, from what I understand, is the whole idea,) I suspect the Hoard at least has the sense to not draw his attention to The Argument post-Thunderf00t. I'm sure he thinks we're all fiendish rape monsters based on what he's heard, but he definitely seems like the type that would realize and admit he's wrong after investigating it (whatever the 'it' is,) if he were to investigate it. I'd've said the same of Dillahunty, too, though.

[Lsuoma]

[youtube.]beY-inhk4fQ[/youtube]
Pardon my schoolboy error.

Oh, this is glorious. :clap:

Very inside baseball.

Noir? WTF? Have you gotten permission from Steersman to use that name?

I don't know - and he's registered here. One of the rules here is that if you are registered you shouldn't post as a guest without identifying your registered account. Please do so in future.

[mothmantis]

All I know about Aron Ra the feminist & SJW gender-tard-- and all you need to know-- is contained in his lecture at the Sexy Secularism Conference. He simultaneously brags about-- and cries crocodile tears for-- his "macho" upbringing, peppered with Feminism 101 bumper-sticker deepity-derp...

[youtube]Dd_0hjHuDMo[/youtube]

Well, fuck, now I gotta watch this and probably get pissed off at him.

[Garlix]

Bros in Jedi robes ruin everything.

Brobi-Wan Kenbrobi.

Could have been worse for her. "Ube-wan Kinonme?"

[deLurch]

All I know about Aron Ra the feminist & SJW gender-tard-- and all you need to know-- is contained in his lecture at the Sexy Secularism Conference. He simultaneously brags about-- and cries crocodile tears for-- his "macho" upbringing, peppered with Feminism 101 bumper-sticker deepity-derp...
[youtube]Dd_0hjHuDMo[/youtube]

Ugh. 47 minutes of that to try and determine how deeply embedded in the position that he is. 2 minutes in, and he has already sold me on the fact that he really doesn't have much to say on the subject that would be based off of an authoritative knowledge base. I can't do it. I make it through a reasonable length essay, but not this.

[fuzzy]

http://youtube.com/v=beY-inhk4fQ
nifty expression: To lose one's rag

[deLurch]

Better article on Adderall misuse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/us/wo ... drugs.html

Does anyone else get annoyed by this? Where people are feigning sickness to get speed so that they can get ahead of other workers?

I take Adderall. It's keeps me functional, not pulling all nighters. Maybe it's a crutch, but some people need crutches. You wouldn't kick a crutch out from under a cripple would you ableist shitlord?

There are medically prescribed solutions for people who need them. And then there is off prescription use of substances for performance enhancing purposes that may have unintended consequences, or to mask a deficiency caused by other behavioral problems (such as a poor sleep schedule),

From what you have said, I would guess that you are in the medically prescribed category.

[Service Dog]

Thanks to acathode-- on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:51 pm • [Post 14333]-- for enduring a SJW hangout/circle-jerk to about 1 hour 7 minutes, when Aron Ra offers his definition of sexism, the old "the difference between racism and sexism is that there's not a word for a non-racist, but there is a word for a non-sexist…" Please don't make me listen-- to verify that the word is going to be "Feminist" & that he then will say Thunderf00t is sexist because he's not "feminist". Please? No? fuck..

"….And the word for non-sexists is Feminist. Thunderf00t is certainly not a feminist."

Then he shoots down 'egalitarian' as an option...
[youtube]URJFmbVS-cc[/youtube]

He really shits on his fellow hangouters around 1 hour 11, 1:12… at 1:13:25-- he raises his voice and tells the others to "Shut Up!"
by 1:15 he questions whether it's possible for "Feminists to take it too far".

Also, in that Sexy Secularism Con link, above-- a very cursory search of Slymepit archives-- tells me that somewhere amid the bloviating-- Aron Ra asserted that there "is and always has been only one definition of Feminism."

As Far As I Am Concerned… Aron Ra has gotten off easy for years-- benefitting from an unearned benefit of the doubt from the Pit.


Aaaaanddd….

Here's Aron's wife, guest-authoring a post…

Don’t read this if you’re a Misogynist, MRA, Feminazi, Femistazi, FTBully, Rape Apologist…
By Aron’s wife

…Groupthinker, Troll, Person Blinded by Privilege, Leg-Chewer, and especially if you are Thunderf00t (that’s honestly a joke TF). Do read this if you are tired of reading vitriol, and would genuinely like to know whether our community really feels welcome to women.

Sometimes labels are a useful shorthand for having a nominal understanding of a topic you are not familiar with. For example, people frequently refer to me as Asian because of what I look like. In a lot of ways the label is useful,because I was raised by an Asian parent and I have Asian physical characteristics. I really don’t discourage it for the most part, because it is more convenient than trying to explain to people that I am really not Asian in any real sense of the word.


I’m actually Eurasian and also raised by a white parent, and have yet to set foot outside this country. It is a chore to explain this even to people, who know me well. Especially because people can dismiss what you are saying as you being too sensitive. Also a lot of people don’t like ambiguity, and they don’t like doing the mental work about something they can’t be bothered about.

More seriously, we make labels like “misogynist” and “feminist”(only you have to mentally hiss that when you read it for the purposes of this discussion) that become more charged every time they are repeated. Pretty soon the labels start meaning different things to different people. At this point it can be more useful to show and not tell what act….

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2012 ... apologist/

[Skep tickle]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/201 ... t-aron-ra/
= https://archive.today/cUPh0

Reproduced in its entirety below.

Why I am a Feminist – Aron Ra

Warning: I’m about to voice my opinion on feminism and misogyny in the freethought community. Get out while you can. I know I should keep my mouth shut like I have done for the whole last year, but I’ve I decided not to take my own advice anymore.

When I was a little boy, (we’re talking 1971 here) my deeply religious babysitters told me that women could never fly fighter jets because of alleged differences in their depth perception, or their physical center of gravity altering their sense of balance, or the ways in which female brains reportedly processed information differently than the brain of a male.

This is just one example of sexual inequality being alleged as a biological fact. While I concede there are a few things most women can’t do as well as some men -owing to a proportion of upper body strength, that just might be the limit of justifiable reasons for gender restrictions. That is as much credence as I can give to that. So women shouldn’t be expected have fair odds against men of equal weight in a boxing ring. What about beyond that?

I knew a woman who was six feet tall and could bench 270lbs. She could be an ambulance paramedic because she could meet the criteria -where a lot of men could not. That’s what matters. Maybe that’s how my metric differs from the norm of earlier generations. Now what if the job is not physically demanding in that specific area? How could there be any difference then? I don’t think there is.

I know of one case where a female pilot killed 20 people in a helicopter crash. I doubt her gender could have played any role in that at all. If it was her fault, I would sooner blame the fact that the military put a difficult and dangerous multi-million-dollar aircraft in the hands of a teenager. Perhaps any pilot who was old enough to qualify for commercial insurance should have done better?

My wife often laughs at me for being “roaringly heterosexual”, but I am also one of those atypical freaks who finds intelligence sexy. Cute cannot compensate for dumb, and one certainly is not the other. If a woman shows that she is actually smarter than I am, oh honey! I know; there are not many other men like that.

It’s not about sex either. There are many women in the secular movement with commercial-grade comeliness, and I am proud that they count me among their peers, but that’s not the criteria by which we are associated, obviously. Some of my favorite heroes are women; Boadicca, Hypatia, Ruslana. When I say that I respect a woman for her mind, I actually mean it, and not in the same tongue-in-cheek fashion as saying that I read Playboy for the articles.

At the same time, I can’t simply turn off hard-wired hormonal responses to sexual stimuli. For example, it has often happened that I may be amongst a number of sharp-witted women intellectually analyzing subjects of scientific substance with profound perspective, and there I am, suddenly –helplessly- focused on some elegant lass who casually passed with a fabulous ass, and befuddled my brilliance, rebooting my brain in mid-debate. I don’t always possess the necessary class to conceal such embarrassing distractions discretely.

Still I won’t support or defend a policy prohibiting or inhibiting women from wearing ‘sexualized’ clothing at skeptics conferences; vendors or not, doesn’t matter. I know it’s mostly nerds at these sorts of things, but it still doesn’t take that much research for anyone to figure out how to blend in or stand out appropriately. I wouldn’t dictate how someone else dresses. Speaking personally, even having such a rule seems unnecessarily prudish.

I have even heard a suggestion that speakers in skeptical events should be prohibited from engaging in carnal liaisons with any attendees who were not also on stage. This is just absurd. The excuse is that there is supposedly some unequal power issue which leaves those in the audience being treated like doe-eyed sycophants –not by the expectedly exploitive speakers, but by the policy itself. I know from experience that occurrences of adulation are relatively rare, and typically concern only legally responsible adults. So why should there even be a rule like that one?

Mind you, while I have been on stage a few times myself, I have no bias on this point to influence my objectivity. I am married, and my wife and I prefer not to ‘swing’. Another reason I might avoid such judgments is that I have the advantage of sufficient social skills that I know there are behavioral boundaries. Even if I’ve had a few drinks, I still know there’s a line there, and I don’t always need to venture toward it. A lot of other people aren’t aware there should even be a line, and that’s only part of the problem.

Even though I’m neither popular nor important enough to be invited to TAM or Skepticon, it sometimes happens that I am asked to participate at atheist events. Once I even shared the stage with Richard Dawkins and Rebecca Watson at the same time. That was a stunning revelation. Watson was supposed to talk about ‘communicating atheism’, but instead she used her time to explain how uncomfortable feminism is in the secular movement. What was shocking about that were the comments on the video once it was uploaded to my channel. Anyone who thinks she exaggerated, or who doesn’t believe there is a problem with sexism in secularism need only read a few of those posts, especially the early ones; they vindicated all the horrible things she listed about the vile sexist threats she spoke of.

Understand that I do not say any of this to fit in or be popular. I don’t think it is possible to comment on this topic at all and still be popular in this movement anymore. But I sincerely do not understand hate, nor why other people fixate on negativity. It’s just not the way I think. There is a positive aspect to nearly all our experiences. If you can’t find something good, at least allow yourself to be impressed, because sharing the things you love is what will endear you to others. Seriously, nobody cares about what you hate, and you shouldn’t either.

So I don’t get the sort of mindset which sets any demographic as being superior or inferior to another in vague general terms. Specific arguments of that sort are at least possible, though I can’t remember ever seeing one. Being a white male from a fairly insular upbringing, I may not be very observant of that sort of thing. There were a lot of bigots in my own family once upon a time, but now my more-ethnic friends have to tell me about the prejudice they’ve encountered, or else I wouldn’t know that still goes on.

I was equally unaware of misogyny, and by that I mean REAL misogyny, not just guys being heterosexual. There has to be socially acceptable means of having a healthy sex-life, of seeking and inviting partners to pursue such basic biological drives with mutual benefits. No, a misogynist is not simply responding to his hormones; he is making a hate claim, portraying women as subordinate, subservient, insufficient, and somehow deserving of disrespect or even abuse. I honestly do not understand how even the most hateful bigots can take that stance.

The shocking part of all these recent controversies to me is not that misogyny exists outside the world and works of Martin Luther, but that it somehow thrives today, and that it still exists in the freethought community of all places. How could it? Who else has a more progressive perspective, with the most tolerant attitudes, and the most advanced ideas? How could such a despicable disposition, so repugnant, so medieval, remain at all in any group that includes so many Star Trek fans? Have we learned nothing from the next gen?

[Michael J]

I think that more Aron Ra is a SJW, the more sweet it will be if Nugent turns him against PZ.

[subbie1957]

I think that more Aron Ra is a SJW, the more sweet it will be if Nugent turns him against PZ.

Here is Nugent's latest column on Aron Ra http://www.michaelnugent.com/2015/04/22 ... n-aron-ra/

[KiwiInOz]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/201 ... t-aron-ra/
= https://archive.today/cUPh0

Reproduced in its entirety below.

Why I am a Feminist – Aron Ra

Warning: I’m about to voice my opinion on feminism and misogyny in the freethought community. Get out while you can. I know I should keep my mouth shut like I have done for the whole last year, but I’ve I decided not to take my own advice anymore.

When I was a little boy, (we’re talking 1971 here) my deeply religious babysitters told me that women could never fly fighter jets because of alleged differences in their depth perception, or their physical center of gravity altering their sense of balance, or the ways in which female brains reportedly processed information differently than the brain of a male.

This is just one example of sexual inequality being alleged as a biological fact. While I concede there are a few things most women can’t do as well as some men -owing to a proportion of upper body strength, that just might be the limit of justifiable reasons for gender restrictions. That is as much credence as I can give to that. So women shouldn’t be expected have fair odds against men of equal weight in a boxing ring. What about beyond that?

I knew a woman who was six feet tall and could bench 270lbs. She could be an ambulance paramedic because she could meet the criteria -where a lot of men could not. That’s what matters. Maybe that’s how my metric differs from the norm of earlier generations. Now what if the job is not physically demanding in that specific area? How could there be any difference then? I don’t think there is.

I know of one case where a female pilot killed 20 people in a helicopter crash. I doubt her gender could have played any role in that at all. If it was her fault, I would sooner blame the fact that the military put a difficult and dangerous multi-million-dollar aircraft in the hands of a teenager. Perhaps any pilot who was old enough to qualify for commercial insurance should have done better?

My wife often laughs at me for being “roaringly heterosexual”, but I am also one of those atypical freaks who finds intelligence sexy. Cute cannot compensate for dumb, and one certainly is not the other. If a woman shows that she is actually smarter than I am, oh honey! I know; there are not many other men like that.

It’s not about sex either. There are many women in the secular movement with commercial-grade comeliness, and I am proud that they count me among their peers, but that’s not the criteria by which we are associated, obviously. Some of my favorite heroes are women; Boadicca, Hypatia, Ruslana. When I say that I respect a woman for her mind, I actually mean it, and not in the same tongue-in-cheek fashion as saying that I read Playboy for the articles.

At the same time, I can’t simply turn off hard-wired hormonal responses to sexual stimuli. For example, it has often happened that I may be amongst a number of sharp-witted women intellectually analyzing subjects of scientific substance with profound perspective, and there I am, suddenly –helplessly- focused on some elegant lass who casually passed with a fabulous ass, and befuddled my brilliance, rebooting my brain in mid-debate. I don’t always possess the necessary class to conceal such embarrassing distractions discretely.

Still I won’t support or defend a policy prohibiting or inhibiting women from wearing ‘sexualized’ clothing at skeptics conferences; vendors or not, doesn’t matter. I know it’s mostly nerds at these sorts of things, but it still doesn’t take that much research for anyone to figure out how to blend in or stand out appropriately. I wouldn’t dictate how someone else dresses. Speaking personally, even having such a rule seems unnecessarily prudish.

I have even heard a suggestion that speakers in skeptical events should be prohibited from engaging in carnal liaisons with any attendees who were not also on stage. This is just absurd. The excuse is that there is supposedly some unequal power issue which leaves those in the audience being treated like doe-eyed sycophants –not by the expectedly exploitive speakers, but by the policy itself. I know from experience that occurrences of adulation are relatively rare, and typically concern only legally responsible adults. So why should there even be a rule like that one?

Mind you, while I have been on stage a few times myself, I have no bias on this point to influence my objectivity. I am married, and my wife and I prefer not to ‘swing’. Another reason I might avoid such judgments is that I have the advantage of sufficient social skills that I know there are behavioral boundaries. Even if I’ve had a few drinks, I still know there’s a line there, and I don’t always need to venture toward it. A lot of other people aren’t aware there should even be a line, and that’s only part of the problem.

Even though I’m neither popular nor important enough to be invited to TAM or Skepticon, it sometimes happens that I am asked to participate at atheist events. Once I even shared the stage with Richard Dawkins and Rebecca Watson at the same time. That was a stunning revelation. Watson was supposed to talk about ‘communicating atheism’, but instead she used her time to explain how uncomfortable feminism is in the secular movement. What was shocking about that were the comments on the video once it was uploaded to my channel. Anyone who thinks she exaggerated, or who doesn’t believe there is a problem with sexism in secularism need only read a few of those posts, especially the early ones; they vindicated all the horrible things she listed about the vile sexist threats she spoke of.

Understand that I do not say any of this to fit in or be popular. I don’t think it is possible to comment on this topic at all and still be popular in this movement anymore. But I sincerely do not understand hate, nor why other people fixate on negativity. It’s just not the way I think. There is a positive aspect to nearly all our experiences. If you can’t find something good, at least allow yourself to be impressed, because sharing the things you love is what will endear you to others. Seriously, nobody cares about what you hate, and you shouldn’t either.

So I don’t get the sort of mindset which sets any demographic as being superior or inferior to another in vague general terms. Specific arguments of that sort are at least possible, though I can’t remember ever seeing one. Being a white male from a fairly insular upbringing, I may not be very observant of that sort of thing. There were a lot of bigots in my own family once upon a time, but now my more-ethnic friends have to tell me about the prejudice they’ve encountered, or else I wouldn’t know that still goes on.

I was equally unaware of misogyny, and by that I mean REAL misogyny, not just guys being heterosexual. There has to be socially acceptable means of having a healthy sex-life, of seeking and inviting partners to pursue such basic biological drives with mutual benefits. No, a misogynist is not simply responding to his hormones; he is making a hate claim, portraying women as subordinate, subservient, insufficient, and somehow deserving of disrespect or even abuse. I honestly do not understand how even the most hateful bigots can take that stance.

The shocking part of all these recent controversies to me is not that misogyny exists outside the world and works of Martin Luther, but that it somehow thrives today, and that it still exists in the freethought community of all places. How could it? Who else has a more progressive perspective, with the most tolerant attitudes, and the most advanced ideas? How could such a despicable disposition, so repugnant, so medieval, remain at all in any group that includes so many Star Trek fans? Have we learned nothing from the next gen?

Shock horror. The man could be a Slymepitter, just like me.

No, a misogynist is not simply responding to his hormones; he is making a hate claim, portraying women as subordinate, subservient, insufficient, and somehow deserving of disrespect or even abuse.

I don't see anyone here making hate claims, or portraying women as ... somehow deserving of disrespect or even abuse because they are women.

[Sunder]

Aron's got close personal ties with PZ, but he's also a member of a legitimate secular advocacy group. He's tried to straddle the line so far, but that's becoming less and less possible.

PZ's group does not have a bright future, but he's still dangerous enough as a shit-stirrer to be able to hurt someone in Aron's position if he openly defected. He's seen how Dawkins gets treated and he has to know that PZ is if anything likely to be more vicious and bullying toward someone he can realistically harm.

[Lochness_Hamster]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh87 ... n%20Ra.jpg

The Famous elevator

No fucking way. Is this real? There is either a backstory about "fat old me is screwed now", or this is a deliberate tour definitely fuckyou to Becky.

Yeah Aron Ra posted the pic from his FB page, the title, "The most Famous Elevator in Skepticism"

[piginthecity]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh87 ... n%20Ra.jpg

The Famous elevator

"Sorry for the Inconvenience". I should bloody well think so !

[deLurch]

I think that more Aron Ra is a SJW, the more sweet it will be if Nugent turns him against PZ.

...I am currently not thinking that Aron Ra is a SJW. Yes, he is holding to some populist SJW ideas. I will grant you that he called Thunderf00t a sexist in the google chat linked above.

But by the same token, by that article provided by Skeptickle, as KiwiInOz pointed out, he still holds onto some ideas that some? many? most? of us also hold onto. Given a few twists of social conditions Aron Ra would be a brutally attacked and shunned witch-of-the-week.

Yes, if you bring up various subjects, he will honestly tell you what he thinks (irrespective if you think he is right, wrong or misled). But if you look at his over arching body of work, he doesn't make a business of going on witch hunts.

Hell, if you want to parse through the entire history of what any individual here in the slymepit has said, you can come up with items that match up with even what some of us would consider the more crazy feminist idealogie. But we continue to talk together. Work together. Take pleasure out of exchanging our thoughts and ideas.

I don't think I can classify Aron Ra as an SJW.

[Skep tickle]

FWIW, one more - in two parts because of character limit.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2013 ... -feminism/
= https://archive.today/ynxop

To the critics of my comments on feminism…

The idea behind the ‘Sexy Secular Conference’ at the University of Akron was apparently to present progressive concepts on non-traditional courtships, romantic expression, bending gender roles, and so on. This was not my usual choice of topics, and it’s not going to become one either. But I took that opportunity to express an opinion, and to share a few concerns I had and still have about myself. I have never ‘grown’ more as a person than when I realized that I had prejudices, and that they needed to be corrected. That’s really what this is about.

Now that the video is posted, I’d like to respond to a number of criticisms I’ve seen in the comments; not the replies, just the comments. Most of them merely repeated fallacies I had already addressed in the video. For example, the idea of women having equal rights with men somehow means something different than gender equality, as if men wouldn’t have equal rights with women at the same time, a logical fallacy.

Otherwise, critics did as I predicted, twisting my words into things I never said. For example, I never said women deserved special treatments. In fact, I said that even according to the leader of the feminist movement, they did NOT deserve special treatments -despite my critics’ many allegations to the contrary.

Someone accused me of accusing Thunderf00t of something, and this person said that I am wrong about Thunder in that he doesn’t hold the position [they say] that that he does. They didn’t tell me how I got it wrong, and I can’t guess, because they didn’t tell me what I was accusing him of either. The only information they did give was their assumption that I was talking about Thunder’s video. I wasn’t. Although I was at one point thinking about a conversation we’d had.

The things I addressed in my video are things that I have personally experienced, or that both sides of the aisle have confirmed, and they didn’t necessarily rely on patriarchy theory. I know that goes on, but it doesn’t have to be the sole force behind the oppression of women as I see it. Western religion is unarguably patriarchal, and religion is now and always has been the dominant oppressor of women. But that obviously doesn’t explain misogyny in the atheist community.

One very weird comment was the charge that I was reciting the mantra of the religion of feminism, and that feminists over-emphasize women, neglecting the rights of men. This is an important point. I did mention the inequity of judicial bias toward ‘the mother’ in family court cases. When I split from my daughter’s mother, several lawyers refused to take my case because [they said] “the mother always wins“. Looking into that at the time, I read and heard from female feminists who said that the bias toward the mother was sexist -in more than one aspect -even though it favored the woman! That is why that bias has since been corrected!

Can anyone cite for me any instance wherein women are granted superior status? Or when men are deprived of rights in order to benefit women? Because I have even heard female feminists arguing that it is sexist to save the women and children first.

Someone said that the standards for women in the military were lower than for men. My daughter says that is not the case. She says women can be Marines now, but they still can’t be SEALs because the Navy tested promising female recruits and none of them could meet that standard. So I don’t think that criticism is true either.

My critics accused me of a false dichotomy when I said that if one is not feminist, then one is sexist. First of all, I said made very clear that it was not a dichotomy at all, that we are all likely to be both to some degree. But if it was a dichotomy, then it wouldn’t be a false one -according to the very definition of the word.

A lot of people criticized me for using the wrong definition, saying that the dictionary is wrong. OK, I can point to a few other instances I know of where I can show that practically every dictionary is wrong. Look up ‘animal’ or ‘abiogenesis’ for example. However in both of those instances -as in all others- I can show what the real definition is, where to find it, and how to confirm whether it’s accurate. None of my critics did any of the above. They wouldn’t provide any citation to any other definition, and gave no way to see whether their contention is valid. They said “go watch this”, or “go read that”, but they couldn’t relate or explain -or even show- any arguments supporting their position.

Now someone did produce a quote from Valerie Solanas, an attempted murderer who appears to be THE man-hating lesbian who served as the template ‘radical feminazi’ for all the Wimmin’s Libber–haters I knew growing up.

“The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples.”

I’ve also been accused of ignoring the extremists, which I never do. If we argue that Valerie Solanas represents feminism, then we should say that the Westborough Baptist Church represents Christianity. However even though the Ku Klux Klan say they are exclusively creationist Christians, they also say that Fred Phelps’ Kansas clan is too extreme to represent their views.

It should also be said that if we compare the “God is love” Christians to the “God hates fags” Christians, we can confirm which is closer by comparing each of their philosophies to the doctrine they’re both supposedly based on. Doing that, we will see that Phelps actually does represent the Christian religion pretty closely, but that Solanas doesn’t match the feminism movement at all.

Solanas’ position clearly neither fits the definition of ‘feminist’ in any dictionary nor any description given of the 5 feminist movements that I have yet seen either. It is opposed in the sentiments of Gloria Steinem, and all of the other leaders of those movements, as well as their platform itself. Look them all up in Wikipedia. All the sources I have yet found give the same definition I do. Where is there a different one?

Some of my critics said the definition I use is not the one used by the majority of feminists they know. I find that curious because it *is* the definition used by the ENTIRETY of the feminists *I* know, and I know a LOT of feminists!

Someone drew a pretty fair analogy between the definitions of feminism and the meaning of PETA, implying that both should be treated as a movement, rather than sticking to the described meaning of their names. OK, if we do that, then when and where does the leadership and platform of that movement show this deviation? Can anyone name the current leaders of whatever phase of the feminist movement we’re currently in? And show me where the platform indicates how I am wrong?

The best criticism I have so far received is that I may be using an out-dated term which might not be the most appropriate, considering that words change meaning over time. I can understand that. I mean, I used to identify as agnostic when I was really atheist. I called myself all kinds of things before BionicDance invented the word, ‘apistevist’. It was only relatively recently that I started calling myself ‘feminist’. I used to identify as ‘egalitarian’, and I liked that word much better. However, that was until someone explained to me the full definition of egalitarian. It refers not only to gender and race, both at the same time, without specification; it also implies that everyone should have the same social and economic status. Not ‘rights'; ‘status’, as in ‘class’. The word was being used to promote Communism, in that an egalitarian society meant one in which all the wealth and power was redistributed equally.

Now if that is no longer the sense in which that word is applied, (and that now may be the case) then anyone who prefers to label themselves that way is of course welcome to do so securely. Although I would still like to differentiate exactly which context of equality I’m talking about in a given instance.

One final note on the topic of feminism/sexism/humanism and so on is this: Some people say they would rather identify as humanist than feminist. Greta Christina identifies as a feminist, and just a few months ago, I saw her receive a Humanist-of-the-year award by the American Humanist Association. Greta is also posts at Freethought Blogs as a proponent of “Atheist +”, a branch of infidel activists primarily concerned with issues of social justice. There was a lot of animosity against A+ when they formed. Because of one or two poorly-worded comments, they were seen as divisive and exclusionary. However, when I told Greta that I choose not to use her label, and that I would refer to myself as a progressive atheist instead, she responded quite clearly, -on camera, and in front of live audience at a major conference:

“I don’t give a damn what people call themselves.
If they’re atheists, and they’re on-board with social justice,
then they’re a friend of mine.”

So in their own words, the leaders of mainstream feminism are not man-haters. They’re not exclusionary or divisive, and they’re not trying to gain superiority over men either.

(continues)

[Skep tickle]

(continued; final 3 paragraphs of Aron Ra's blog post following his talk at the "Sexy Secularism Conference")

I should also say this to Greta: In the Q&A, I should have answered that this dialogue still needs to happen. I’m not telling anyone to be quiet about anything they feel is important. But when we disagree -as we frequently will- I hope we can do it productively.

On the matter of the chromosomal difference between men and women, and the criticism against anyone who says that men are genetically half-female, I know the biology too well to say otherwise; it’s true. Not all facts are comfortable ones. Take for example what I said about sexually ambiguous characters like Michael Jackson or ‘Ms Hathaway’ from the Beverly Hillbillies. I realize my comments will seem insensitive to trans-gendered people. That is not my intent. I am not comfortable with the fact that I felt a sort of revulsion against androgynous people when I was a child. But it is a fact that I did, and I think it would be disingenuous to conceal it. It might even have clinical value in that (I think) it was a biological rather than cultural response.

Finally I can’t believe that I said Rob Halford was in Iron Maiden. There was a guy in the audience wearing an Iron Maiden tee-shirt; that might be why. I am probably more embarrassed about that than anything else. I’m not even a Maiden fan. I mean, I’ve seen them live, and it was a great show! But I love Priest! Screaming for Vengeance and [ironically] Defenders of the Faith are two of my favorite albums! So yeah, I’m feelin’ pretty stupid about that. But I appear to be spot-on about the definition -and application- of feminism.