Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

[Gumby]

Who the fuck does Black Svan think she is, ordering people to renounce sites, etc. when she constantly defends Greg Laden. She's also one of the chief FTBullies who attempts to bully and harass people who don't agree with her. Why the fuck should she get to dictate terms? As long as there are people on "their side" posting at the cesspit that is Pharyngula, they can simply fuck off.

I think it's hysterical that she demands that the main condition of talks be that the opposition completely surrenders before negotiations even begin.

It's like Dawkins saying, "OK, William Lane Craig, I will debate you, but only if you first renounce your religious faith."

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1063867_o.gif

[Michael K Gray]

http://video.pbs.org/video/980040807/

The requested Video is not available.
We apologise for the Inconvenience

Works for me. Maybe it's a regional thing.
Here, try this:
8hTZ5AYzs8o

That worked. Ta, luv.

[AndrewV69]

Also - "If you’re a misandrist for those reasons, I’ll join you in the corner. We’ll have tea." So ... if a guy was smacked around by his stepmother or falsely accused of rape it's totally cool for him to be a misogynist and to hate and fear women for the rest of his life and share stories with the bros about it on MRA sites, amiright?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... erdome-17/

No it is not OK for those reasons.

However,

As I tried to explain once, if you are a cyclist who got a "door prize" just once, it is reasonable to be wary of parked cars after that.

So I believe I understand where the basis for the Schrodinger's rapist business comes from. But we all know where that can end up (as you just pointed out).

(yes I know "they" are going to pull my MRA card one day, whatever).

The problem starts when you can not have a discussion on what is reasonable or justifiable. I do not believe it is possible to have a discussion on hot topics over at the FreedomFromThought Blogs.

For some people it is impossible.

Say! Has anyone tried to discuss the Israel/Palestine issue in a reasoned and dispassionate manner here?
:rimshot:

[cunt]

Svan gets about 10-15 comments when she's not talking up drama. She's dictating terms. You idiots. :lol:

[Michael K Gray]

I'm a little suspicious of "accomodationist" style moves to patch everything up, in part because the first thing under the bus is "extremists", but more because you can't decide between two moral/ethical/subjective/value laden/policy positions on the basis of evidence and reasoned debate (Hume was right).

Their are two main approaches,
1) The accomodationist one, for which the outcome reigns supreme, even at the expense of honesty & truth.
2) The absolutist one, for which the truth reigns supreme, irrespective of any short-term damage to fee-fees.

I am squarely and firmly in the second camp.

[nippletwister]

Out of curiosity, what would you consider a suitable proposition for debate?

Putting that question to the whole board if anyone cares to answer.

Offhand, here are just a few possibilities for consideration…

Resolved: Strong sexual harassment policies are necessary for skeptical conferences to achieve their stated goals.

Resolved: Sexual harassment policies are unlikely to be abused by conference organisers to further their own ideological or personal ends.

Resolved: Just as atheism is the logical result of applying skepticism to theism, feminism is the logical result of properly applying skepticism to the patriarchy.

Resolved: Western culture is pervaded with subtle social mechanisms that perpetuate male dominance to this day.

Resolved: Western culture is a rape culture.

Resolved: Atheism Plus has demonstrated the morality and efficacy of combining social justice with skepticism.

:mrgreen:

Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahah.

I don't think I could have done that without chewing my fingers off.

I really and truly want to see skepticism applied to everything that idiots like Adam Lee and the FTB crowd accept as gospel. I would pay money to see an honest, well-prepped debate on the testable claims made by feminist theorists. I would love to see empirical research on feminist theories of gendered violence and gender issues. I would love to see large, well-designed, nationwide polls on what most women REALLY think about gender equality and discrimination. I would love to see a thorough examination of the sexism problem in the macrocosm of secular societies, and the microcosm of skeptic conferences.

Unfortunately, I know that not one of these dishonest douchebags has any desire to see these things happen. Because if you're not a professional victim looking for offense everywhere, or drumming up drama by making dubious accusations, the personal day-to-day experience of most people puts the lie to all this horseshit pretty quickly. You have to literally deny the evidence of your own life to buy into it.

[Lsuoma]

Who the fuck does Black Svan think she is, ordering people to renounce sites, etc. when she constantly defends Greg Laden. She's also one of the chief FTBullies who attempts to bully and harass people who don't agree with her. Why the fuck should she get to dictate terms? As long as there are people on "their side" posting at the cesspit that is Pharyngula, they can simply fuck off.

Order, eh? Who does she think she is?
I am your Zvan!
I didn't know we had a Zvan: I thought we were an autonomous collective.

[Michael K Gray]

Is there even a more disgusting and demeaning word in the English language than tofu?

yup...quorn

What? How dare you insult South Australia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn,_South_Australia

[AndrewV69]

S.E. Cupp is either an elaborate troll, or a complete moron. "Oh yes, I am an atheist, I just think that we NEED religion to help keep the moral fabric of our society together. Oh, and Coastal elites are ruining this country, nevermind that I am one."

Oh I dunno but I think I can see where he is coming from. We do need something to keep the morons in check.

What better way to do it than to foster the belief that a supernatural being that you can not see is watching your every move? That way the morons will police themselves.

Or perhaps not:
[youtube]N-NEtcW4drs[/youtube]

[Apples]

Sexual 'harassment' and such was a big thing back then, in the early 90's, and I probably could have made a big stink about it. But I thought, why bother? The guy was super embarassed the next day, and he KNEW that he had been stupid. I am not afraid to be alone with men, but, I will say that, at this point in my life, I don't want random men knowing that I live alone, out in the woods.

Ugh - that sucks, and it sucks that your dad wasn't more sympathetic. One should at least try to avoid unmitigated victim blaming by making sure to place appropriate blame on the perpetrator, even if you can't resist trying to dispense good advice to the victim. This is where the 'rape culture' convos break down a lot. Men who are having an online conversation about how to prevent rape aren't, in most cases, the rapists (or shirt-rippers or peeping-toms). Naturally, they (we) want to be seen as "allies" and not lumped in with the creeps and criminals. This leads to misunderstanding, alienation, etc., and suddenly "good guys" who thought they were lending a sympathetic ear are pissed off and unsympathetic (at which point they are labeled fuckwit misogynist MRAs). We do need men to be role models for their male friends and help enforce zero-tolerance for true creepiness, stalkerish behavior, and sexual assault, but the FTB formula for this is lacking something.

[cunt]

Hey Steph. No joke you're a gigantic hypocrite, a complete idiot and you wouldn't know skepticism if you tripped the fuck over it. Go fuck yourself forever. These are my terms.

[nippletwister]

Also - "If you’re a misandrist for those reasons, I’ll join you in the corner. We’ll have tea." So ... if a guy was smacked around by his stepmother or falsely accused of rape it's totally cool for him to be a misogynist and to hate and fear women for the rest of his life and share stories with the bros about it on MRA sites, amiright?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... erdome-17/

No it is not OK for those reasons.

However,

As I tried to explain once, if you are a cyclist who got a "door prize" just once, it is reasonable to be wary of parked cars after that.

So I believe I understand where the basis for the Schrodinger's rapist business comes from. But we all know where that can end up (as you just pointed out).

(yes I know "they" are going to pull my MRA card one day, whatever).

The problem starts when you can not have a discussion on what is reasonable or justifiable. I do not believe it is possible to have a discussion on hot topics over at the FreedomFromThought Blogs.

For some people it is impossible.

Say! Has anyone tried to discuss the Israel/Palestine issue in a reasoned and dispassionate manner here?
:rimshot:

You know, that joke actually gets old for me. Everyone was perfectly reasonable....except Git, the one doing all the FTB style bullshitting and histrionics.

I then got quite passionate about his statements....after he pretty much called me a genocidal jew hater.

Had nothing to do with jews or palestine, just a douchebag on the internet.

[d4m10n]

He seems to want to avoid a debate because he hates us.

He makes an argument against legitimizing his opponents and another argument that productive dialogue is impossible because the other side is impervious to reason. These arguments should sound familiar, since they have been made on both sides.

I want to avoid it because I don't think we will ever get the sort of structured neutral system in place that we would need for such a debate to be worthwhile.

A Google Hangout would to the trick, provided that both sides agreed upon a resolution to debate, ground rules, and a moderator to keep everything in line.

If I were them I would be delighted to have Justin as an opponent - that way the entire debate could centre on the question of how terrible it is to doxx skepchicks and whatever shit I could dig up about 'A Voice For Men.'

You don't think most skeptics could diagnose and dismiss gratuitous ad hominems? If the debate were focused on a specific resolution (such as those suggested above) it would be a stretch to work personal attacks into a rebuttal, much less an opening statement. If they did, though, it shouldn't be too hard to own up and apologize for any harm done.

Justin is absolutely the wrong person to take on such a debate.

Whom would you suggest, assuming they would be willing to make the effort?

[AbsurdWalls]

Can I suggest my preferred debate topic again?

Are women and minorities under-represented in the atheism/skepticism movement? If so, is this a problem? If so, what should be done about it?

[DeepInsideYourMind]

Any debate that starts without the pre-condition of "ad hominem" fallacies will be called out and stopped by a moderator would be pointless

The problem is that the entire FtB / Skepchick / A+ "misogynists around every corner" argument is that it is entirely ad hominem


If you remove the basic logical fallacies in play, they really don't have a lot to debate upon

[KiwiInOz]

Can I suggest my preferred debate topic again?

Are women and minorities under-represented in the atheism/skepticism movement? If so, is this a problem? If so, what should be done about it?

May I suggest:

Edit button or Preview: which is the sharpest tool in the shed?

[Tigzy]

I was already mulling a way to do this back in June

Then I just got overwhelmed with work and kept putting it off on my calendar

It especially bugged me because I couldn’t get to it for lack of available time

Then Jen McCreight said it for me, more eloquently and clearly than I could have.

(underline mine)

And then a little passive-aggressive slam, his offer to provide the "intellectual artillery." *snort*

I *snorted* too. :lol:

[Dick Strawkins]

He seems to want to avoid a debate because he hates us.

He makes an argument against legitimizing his opponents and another argument that productive dialogue is impossible because the other side is impervious to reason. These arguments should sound familiar, since they have been made on both sides.

I want to avoid it because I don't think we will ever get the sort of structured neutral system in place that we would need for such a debate to be worthwhile.

A Google Hangout would to the trick, provided that both sides agreed upon a resolution to debate, ground rules, and a moderator to keep everything in line.

If I were them I would be delighted to have Justin as an opponent - that way the entire debate could centre on the question of how terrible it is to doxx skepchicks and whatever shit I could dig up about 'A Voice For Men.'

You don't think most skeptics could diagnose and dismiss gratuitous ad hominems? If the debate were focused on a specific resolution (such as those suggested above) it would be a stretch to work personal attacks into a rebuttal, much less an opening statement. If they did, though, it shouldn't be too hard to own up and apologize for any harm done.

Justin is absolutely the wrong person to take on such a debate.

Whom would you suggest, assuming they would be willing to make the effort?

Who would I suggest?

Out of the members of the slymepit I would suggest Skep Tickle.

Out of the wider skeptic/atheist movement I would suggest Barbara Drescher.

As for skeptics not being able to recognize ad hominems, well I would like to be as optimistic as you seem to be but I do wonder what proportion of skeptics are that in name only. Look at the reaction of the Skepticon crowd to Rebecca's terrible Evo Psych presentation. They all thought it was fantastic!

[John Greg]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

[fascination]

Whom would you suggest, assuming they would be willing to make the effort?

I am not sure about this whole thing but what about having Ryan Grant Long as one of the participators? He's on our "side" but he doesn't post at the Pit. He's reasonable, intelligent, polite, well known in the skeptic community and he has a degree in women's studies. It might be a good idea to have someone there who knows about feminism. He could help refute some of their silly arguments that fall into that whole gender feminism/privilege/SJW camp. He probably wouldn't want to be the main person doing it but he could be one of the participants. Just a thought. He may not want to do it anyway.

[fascination]

@Dick Strawkins Great Suggestions! I wonder if Drescher would do it...

[Steersman]

My recent post on Zvan’s site which is, not suprisingly, “awaiting moderation” [and waiting and waiting …]:

Methinks you’re engaging in some egregious “four legs good; two legs bad” in making it a precondition that anyone to be involved in healing those “deep rifts” has to “leave the slime pit behind”. In addition, the implication that there is no one there “who acts as though any of us have a point” is simply poisoning the well as I at least, among others, have frequently conceded the contrary – for which I have received no small amount of flak, although no banning.

But that is not to mention that that precondition is decidedly unrealistic – what do you expect? An oath of allegiance to FTB and Gender Feminism plus some ritual spitting on Evolutionary Psychology? Seems to me that those issues are substantially or significantly the bones of contention generating those “rifts”, not some peripheral questions about the seating arrangements.

One might suggest, as a starting point, a drawing up of a list on each side followed by a determination of which items are in common. Non-negotiable ultimatums hardly seem to qualify.

[fascination]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

Yeah...that's a fucking ridiculous accusation. I would like he/she/they to back that shit up. Link to where I specifically posted anything about supporting the rape of women anywhere. I do not and I have not. FTB is getting crazier and crazier.

[Tigzy]

I never thought I'd say this to you, Steers, but -

what do you expect? An oath of allegiance to FTB and Gender Feminism plus some ritual spitting on Evolutionary Psychology?

Is sharp. Cutting. And concise.

[another lurker]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

Yeah...that's a fucking ridiculous accusation. I would like he/she/they to back that shit up. Link to where I specifically posted anything about supporting the rape of women anywhere. I do not and I have not. FTB is getting crazier and crazier.

It's cuz of astrokid. He said a couple of things about Indian women, and suddenly the *entire* pit supports the rape and abuse of women in India.

[Michael K Gray]

Then over had the nerve to argue that famous/popular/important people get away with crimes because of their celebrity rather than it just always being misogyny/rape culture and got temp banned a few times. Then, I got permabanned for suggesting the rules apply equally to everyone.

A✞ is exactly like Animal Farm, where some are more equal than others.
Four disabilities good, Two disabilities bad.

[AndrewV69]

You know, that joke actually gets old for me. Everyone was perfectly reasonable....except Git, the one doing all the FTB style bullshitting and histrionics.

I then got quite passionate about his statements....after he pretty much called me a genocidal jew hater.

Had nothing to do with jews or palestine, just a douchebag on the internet.

Oh all right, I will stop bringing it up then.

What I was trying to do was point out that "we" are not necessarily immune to the forces that produces baboonitis, but I did not want to go the full Steersman on the topic.

(Note the use of scare quotes around "we" please, implying the collective as a general whole, rather than a consensus or aggregate of the individual expressed in unison to a particular point of view ... and If I go any further I am going to go the full Steersman (never go to the full Steersman) although I can see why he does it... better shut up now before I do go the full Steersman (which one should never do) .. just saying).

[Apples]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

I was just reading the comment thread (someone at Zvan's blog I believe mentioned you were there). I couldn't help noticing that, in response to your posts, Julian and Wowbagger were having to make the distinction between "threats" (I am going to do this to you) and violence fantasies (I'm a neck-snapper / I wish you would die in a fire / I have a gun and would stock up on ammo if you were nearby). This is a distinction that people like Rebecca and Ophelia, of course, have been trying hard to erase in an effort to criminalize/demonize their detractors.

[Dick Strawkins]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

Yeah...that's a fucking ridiculous accusation. I would like he/she/they to back that shit up. Link to where I specifically posted anything about supporting the rape of women anywhere. I do not and I have not. FTB is getting crazier and crazier.

It's just the old guilt-by-association trick.
A few members of A Voice for Men post here therefore the other 530 members of the slymepit are guilty of supporting anything that any random Voice for Men writer has ever written.
:shock:

[Michael K Gray]

What she sees as "hardly ever producing unique material about atheism or skepticism", the bloggers probably see as writing controversial stuff to increase page views.

A sign there might yet be some hope for her.

She'd have to grow up first.
At the moment I judge her to be (emotionally) at about age 11. Seriously.

[incognito]

Dan Barker would be a good moderator.

[d4m10n]

As for skeptics not being able to recognize ad hominems, well I would like to be as optimistic as you seem to be but I do wonder what proportion of skeptics are that in name only. Look at the reaction of the Skepticon crowd to Rebecca's terrible Evo Psych presentation. They all thought it was fantastic!

Not all of them. One of my good female friends walked out on the spot, and meanwhile BirdTerrifier started the ball rolling which lead to Ed Clint's detailed take-down of the talk. And those are just to people I happen to know who were there.

Good suggestions, though.

[fascination]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

I was just reading the comment thread (someone at Zvan's blog I believe mentioned you were there). I couldn't help noticing that, in response to your posts, Julian and Wowbagger were having to make the distinction between "threats" (I am going to do this to you) and violence fantasies (I'm a neck-snapper / I wish you would die in a fire / I have a gun and would stock up on ammo if you were nearby). This is a distinction that people like Rebecca and Ophelia, of course, have been trying hard to erase in an effort to criminalize/demonize their detractors.

How is "If you call me a spic I'll snap your neck" any different from "If I was a girl I would kick her in the cunt" ? BTW, for anyone who doesn't know the first quote was made on Zvan's blog in the comment section by Julian Francisco to another commentator. Julian was not banned by Zvan for that comment.

[incognito]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

Yeah...that's a fucking ridiculous accusation. I would like he/she/they to back that shit up. Link to where I specifically posted anything about supporting the rape of women anywhere. I do not and I have not. FTB is getting crazier and crazier.

It's just the old guilt-by-association trick.
A few members of A Voice for Men post here therefore the other 530 members of the slymepit are guilty of supporting anything that any random Voice for Men writer has ever written.
:shock:

From the link:

The current major argument is whether or not women have it bad in Atheism. And I have repeatedly said that while women in Skeptic/Atheist circles are not badly mistreated like say women in Geek or Videogame circles (or Securities and Hacking for that matter) they are not represented well. And are often subject to Atheism having been a boy’s club for a long long while.

How can I "have it bad in atheism" or "subject to Atheism having been a boy’s club for a long long while."

What does it even mean?

[surreptitious57]

So we have two intractable positions. However I do not see many people leaving this coterie for their clique of angry typists nor do I see people claiming they have been used and manipulated by the slymepit I am not sure of any here who have ran off because of their treatment only to join in with their pseudo academic intensely restrictive and negative worldview

This is a bit like Israel / Palestine now. There are two sides - ideological opposites - who are engaged in this never ending war with absolutely no end in sight and no desire to cease fighting unless on their terms and their terms only. No one has actually died of course and to be fair, it is not as important as that conflict now. But like it there will only be one of two possible outcomes : everyone - or someone - from both sides puts all their differences aside and gets in a room - a real one - and sits down and trashes it out or it carries on till there is no one left standing. So you need to ask yourself, why do you do it ? Is it to feed the machine or is it to actually make a difference ? If the former, you can stop reading now. If the latter, then try to see what you have in common and use that as a marker. And slowly take it from there. I suspect most of you - on both sides - are not remotely interested at all but those of you who are, think about this now. Because as atheists you should all be able to sit down and engage rationally with each other. And face to face - not on the web all on your own e o - but in real time in meat space. Because if you choose not to then the only casuality in this will be the movement you are a member of. Indeed in case you had not noticed it already is unfortunately. Want to do something about it ? You do ? Then what is stopping you ?

[Steersman]

I never thought I'd say this to you, Steers, but -

what do you expect? An oath of allegiance to FTB and Gender Feminism plus some ritual spitting on Evolutionary Psychology?

Is sharp. Cutting. And concise.

Thanks – I think; but high praise, indeed. Ever onward and upward …. :-)

[incognito]

So we have two intractable positions. However I do not see many people leaving this coterie for their clique of angry typists nor do I see people claiming they have been used and manipulated by the slymepit I am not sure of any here who have ran off because of their treatment only to join in with their pseudo academic intensely restrictive and negative worldview

This is a bit like Israel / Palestine now. There are two sides - ideological opposites - who are engaged in this never ending war with absolutely no end in sight and no desire to cease fighting unless on their terms and their terms only. No one has actually died of course and to be fair, it is not as important as that conflict now. But like it there will only be one of two possible outcomes : everyone - or someone - from both sides puts all their differences aside and gets in a room - a real one - and sits down and trashes it out or it carries on till there is no one left standing. So you need to ask yourself, why do you do it ? Is it to feed the machine or is it to actually make a difference ? If the former, you can stop reading now. If the latter, then try to see what you have in common and use that as a marker. And slowly take it from there. I suspect most of you - on both sides - are not remotely interested at all but those of you who are, think about this now. Because as atheists you should all be able to sit down and engage rationally with each other. And face to face - not on the web all on your own e o - but in real time in meat space. Because if you choose not to then the only casuality in this will be the movement you are a member of. Indeed in case you had not noticed it already is unfortunately. Want to do something about it ? You do ? Then what is stopping you ?

1) I'm not sure atheism is a movement
2) I'm not sure most atheists care about this "rift"
3) Who died and made you grand PooBah of what Responsible Atheists should do
4) What if someone would be interested in debate simply out of curiosity about how it could go, or maybe learning something?
5) Ideological opposites? How?
6) Like Israel and Palestine??? Hyperbole much?


There are more, but I'm bored now.

[Apples]

Want to do something about it ? You do ? Then what is stopping you ?

Stephanie Zvan, Ophelia Benson, PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, their commenters, Melody Hensley.......

Atheism isn't going anywhere. Dawkins/Dennett/Hitchens/Harris are the "shmucks" who have made it mainstream, to the extent that it's mainstream, and Shermer on the skeptical side. The FTB/A+ers are the insurgents, if you look at the big picture.

[another lurker]

So we have two intractable positions. However I do not see many people leaving this coterie for their clique of angry typists nor do I see people claiming they have been used and manipulated by the slymepit I am not sure of any here who have ran off because of their treatment only to join in with their pseudo academic intensely restrictive and negative worldview

This is a bit like Israel / Palestine now. There are two sides - ideological opposites - who are engaged in this never ending war with absolutely no end in sight and no desire to cease fighting unless on their terms and their terms only. No one has actually died of course and to be fair, it is not as important as that conflict now. But like it there will only be one of two possible outcomes : everyone - or someone - from both sides puts all their differences aside and gets in a room - a real one - and sits down and trashes it out or it carries on till there is no one left standing. So you need to ask yourself, why do you do it ? Is it to feed the machine or is it to actually make a difference ? If the former, you can stop reading now. If the latter, then try to see what you have in common and use that as a marker. And slowly take it from there. I suspect most of you - on both sides - are not remotely interested at all but those of you who are, think about this now. Because as atheists you should all be able to sit down and engage rationally with each other. And face to face - not on the web all on your own e o - but in real time in meat space. Because if you choose not to then the only casuality in this will be the movement you are a member of. Indeed in case you had not noticed it already is unfortunately. Want to do something about it ? You do ? Then what is stopping you ?

1) I'm not sure atheism is a movement
2) I'm not sure most atheists care about this "rift"
3) Who died and made you grand PooBah of what Responsible Atheists should do
4) What if someone would be interested in debate simply out of curiosity about how it could go, or maybe learning something?
5) Ideological opposites? How?
6) Like Israel and Palestine??? Hyperbole much?


There are more, but I'm bored now.

surreptitious comes across like a fairly nice guy, but from things he has a said in the past, it would appear that he lets A+ers walk all over him.

[John Greg]

surreptitious57 said:

If the latter, then try to see what you have in common and use that as a marker. And slowly take it from there. I suspect most of you - on both sides - are not remotely interested at all but those of you who are, think about this now.

I tried presicely this (bridge building) on more than one occasion, and at more than one location. And I was either ignored, or instantly and thoroughly shot down by execrable well-poisoning even before I could state an argument.

So, no, I will certainly not try it again.

Welch is quite right, in my view, that it is a losing supposition to think you can argue/debate honestly with the vast majority of FfTB, Skepchick.org, or A+ people. Honesty and debate do not mix together for those people. I am amazed that you are still incapable, or unwilling, to see that.

[Lurkion]

Hahahahahahaha

"What do you think about freethought blogs?"

*pause*

Clever Bot: "They make me fall asleep."

hahaha

RW.jpg

(38.59 KiB) Downloaded 185 times

[Gumby]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

Yeah...that's a fucking ridiculous accusation. I would like he/she/they to back that shit up. Link to where I specifically posted anything about supporting the rape of women anywhere. I do not and I have not. FTB is getting crazier and crazier.

It's not about crazy, it's about propaganda. We Pitters eat our own children too, dontcha know?

[fascination]

1) I'm not sure atheism is a movement
2) I'm not sure most atheists care about this "rift"
3) Who died and made you grand PooBah of what Responsible Atheists should do
4) What if someone would be interested in debate simply out of curiosity about how it could go, or maybe learning something?
5) Ideological opposites? How?
6) Like Israel and Palestine??? Hyperbole much?


There are more, but I'm bored now.

:clap:

[John Greg]

I should clarify: I tried my bridge building online, not face-to-face. The only people with whom I could do face-to-face are either quite insane (Setar; Half-a-fish), or dislike me so much that they would simply refuse to meet, claiming that my deep misogyny and transphobia, neither of which I actually suffer from, would scare them away.

[Lurkion]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

*high five*!

I remember you!

(wind here)

hahaha Has the Slymepit now become the safe space that Aplussers retreat to after getting harangued at A+?

Irony, anyone?

Welcome kbonn / Remick!

[fascination]

Stephanie Zvan, Ophelia Benson, PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, their commenters, Melody Hensley.......

Atheism isn't going anywhere. Dawkins/Dennett/Hitchens/Harris are the "shmucks" who have made it mainstream, to the extent that it's mainstream, and Shermer on the skeptical side. The FTB/A+ers are the insurgents, if you look at the big picture.

Also they tried to drag the Jref and TAM through the mud (and DJ Grothe). They were indirectly going after James Randi by doing that. Randi is the biggest face of skepticism in the US.

[Steersman]

You know, that joke actually gets old for me. Everyone was perfectly reasonable....except Git, the one doing all the FTB style bullshitting and histrionics.

I then got quite passionate about his statements....after he pretty much called me a genocidal jew hater.

Had nothing to do with jews or palestine, just a douchebag on the internet.

Oh all right, I will stop bringing it up then.

What I was trying to do was point out that "we" are not necessarily immune to the forces that produces baboonitis, but I did not want to go the full Steersman on the topic. ...

Riiight …. No – or very few – redeeming qualities in that! :-)

However, in passing, I might recommend to all and sundry, on both sides of the fence – more to one side than the other, Michael Shermer’s The Believing Brain which describes that process rather well. A central theme is his hypothesis that we all, to a greater or lesser extent, pick our beliefs first – with very little thought involved – and then search for “facts” to support them. As he puts it:

In fact, research now overwhelmingly demonstrates that most of our moral decisions are grounded in automatic moral feelings rather than deliberatively rational calculations. We do not reason our way to a moral decision by carefully weighing the evidence for and against; instead, we make intuitive leaps to moral decisions and then rationalize the snap decision after the fact with rational reasons. [pg 237]

Which shows some problematic similarities with religious fundamentalists ….

[incognito]

I'm fairly confident there aren't any active FTB or A+ folks in my city. And even if there were, and we all decided, across the nation, to go meet each other over drinks or coffee or whatever one on one, it would be one of those "Well, the one person *I* met was nice, and we actually agreed on almost everything, but THEY are DIFFERENT from the average member of Team Opposite." things.

[another lurker]

You know, that joke actually gets old for me. Everyone was perfectly reasonable....except Git, the one doing all the FTB style bullshitting and histrionics.

I then got quite passionate about his statements....after he pretty much called me a genocidal jew hater.

Had nothing to do with jews or palestine, just a douchebag on the internet.

Oh all right, I will stop bringing it up then.

What I was trying to do was point out that "we" are not necessarily immune to the forces that produces baboonitis, but I did not want to go the full Steersman on the topic. ...

Riiight …. No – or very few – redeeming qualities in that! :-)

However, in passing, I might recommend to all and sundry, on both sides of the fence – more to one side than the other, Michael Shermer’s The Believing Brain which describes that process rather well. A central theme is his hypothesis that we all, to a greater or lesser extent, pick our beliefs first – with very little thought involved – and then search for “facts” to support them. As he puts it:

In fact, research now overwhelmingly demonstrates that most of our moral decisions are grounded in automatic moral feelings rather than deliberatively rational calculations. We do not reason our way to a moral decision by carefully weighing the evidence for and against; instead, we make intuitive leaps to moral decisions and then rationalize the snap decision after the fact with rational reasons. [pg 237]

Which shows some problematic similarities with religious fundamentalists ….

You are suggesting that we read a book by know 'misogynist' Michael Shermer?

Why...why...you misogynist you!!!! No doubt that book is just a guide on how to hate women!!

[Pagancat]

Has this been presented here yet? (http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... a-ftbully/)

Avicenna posted a claim that everyone here at the Pit endorses and supports the rape of women in India. Pretty damned strong accusation.

Yeah...that's a fucking ridiculous accusation. I would like he/she/they to back that shit up. Link to where I specifically posted anything about supporting the rape of women anywhere. I do not and I have not. FTB is getting crazier and crazier.

It's not about crazy, it's about propaganda. We Pitters eat our own children too, dontcha know?

Well what else are we going to do with the little bastards. Apparently the patriarchy says we can't make them work for us anymore. Fucking patriarchy.

[Submariner]

What about a theistic moderator. Someone with no dog in the hunt. I don't mean VenomfangX or shackofghawd, but one of the semi-intelligent ones.


No one's coming to mind just now, but I'm sure I can find one.....

[TheMudbrooker]

Hi, TheMudbrooker here.
I'm a Laborer by trade, that means I've done about everything related to construction at one time or another, but mainly I lay pipe on a water and sewer crew. The trouble is work has been slow these last few years and I kinda miss spending my days knee-deep in raw sewage. So when that guy over in Minnesota, whatshisname...that fella that kills all those little fish, said The Slymepit was a cesspit of unspeakable filth I thought to myself "Fuck yeah, sign me up! It'll be like old home week".

You know what I found when I got here?

Nary a floating turd, used tampon or whiff of hydrogen sulfide.

What a fucking rip-off. Of course it's my own damned fault, I know better than to listen to anybody that lives on the wrong side of the crick. :doh:

[d4m10n]

Stephanie Zvan, Ophelia Benson, PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, their commenters, Melody Hensley.......

Atheism isn't going anywhere. Dawkins/Dennett/Hitchens/Harris are the "shmucks" who have made it mainstream, to the extent that it's mainstream, and Shermer on the skeptical side. The FTB/A+ers are the insurgents, if you look at the big picture.

Also they tried to drag the Jref and TAM through the mud (and DJ Grothe). They were indirectly going after James Randi by doing that. Randi is the biggest face of skepticism in the US.

Just to give one horrendous example, here is one of Greta's threads wherein her false statements leads to the assertion that DJ covers up sex crimes: http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/ ... ment-76611

Note to Greta and FtB: You are playing host to libel. Real, genuine, no shit, utterly baseless, fact-free libel. Not sweary words like "cunt" or "cock" but actual, no kidding, legally actionable defamation. You are at Grothe's mercy the moment he decides to lawyer up.

[fascination]

What about a theistic moderator. Someone with no dog in the hunt. I don't mean VenomfangX or shackofghawd, but one of the semi-intelligent ones.


No one's coming to mind just now, but I'm sure I can find one.....

Is DonExodus still on YouTube? He's an intelligent Theist. If you can't find a Theist, you can ask Concordance from YouTube to moderate. He's pretty neutral on this whole thing.

[another lurker]

I am searching for something to show to incognito, and I came across this in the process, so, I will share it:

215
strange gods before me ॐ

31 December 2012 at 2:22 pm (UTC -6)

windy joined the pit.

(or was that question “whatever happened, such that windy would join the pit?”)

217
strange gods before me ॐ

31 December 2012 at 2:33 pm (UTC -6)

Yeah, I don’t really know why. My gut impression was that the reason was “people at Pharyngula are too mean, and this thread at ERV’s is a convenient place to complain about that.” But I don’t remember any particularly explicit this is why I left Pharyngula comment.

221
ChasCPeterson

31 December 2012 at 6:05 pm (UTC -6)

windy ws a direct casualty of the Elevator Wars of 2011. She joined the ‘pit early, when it represented (to her, I think) Team Dawkins vs. Team Radfem. I believe she rejects what she sees as the local brand of feminisms’s emphasis on victimization and she’s offended by the perceived infantilization of women inherent in what considers Schrodinger’s-rapist paranoia. (I say this because at the time she expressed specific unhappiness with some comments I made (over there) about crossing the street to pre-empt a potentially anxious situation for somebody else. It pissed her off.)

222
ChasCPeterson

31 December 2012 at 6:06 pm (UTC -6)

I should add that she was also unhappy about aspects of the local commetariat.

starts here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-524239
ends here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-524312

[fascination]

Hi, TheMudbrooker here.
I'm a Laborer by trade, that means I've done about everything related to construction at one time or another, but mainly I lay pipe on a water and sewer crew. The trouble is work has been slow these last few years and I kinda miss spending my days knee-deep in raw sewage. So when that guy over in Minnesota, whatshisname...that fella that kills all those little fish, said The Slymepit was a cesspit of unspeakable filth I thought to myself "Fuck yeah, sign me up! It'll be like old home week".

You know what I found when I got here?

Nary a floating turd, used tampon or whiff of hydrogen sulfide.

What a fucking rip-off. Of course it's my own damned fault, I know better than to listen to anybody that lives on the wrong side of the crick. :doh:

Welcome to the Pit Mudbrooker! So, you like to "lay pipe" do you?

[Pagancat]

What about a theistic moderator. Someone with no dog in the hunt. I don't mean VenomfangX or shackofghawd, but one of the semi-intelligent ones.


No one's coming to mind just now, but I'm sure I can find one.....

Is DonExodus still on YouTube? He's an intelligent Theist. If you can't find a Theist, you can ask Concordance from YouTube to moderate. He's pretty neutral on this whole thing.

His channels still up but he hasn't posted anything for about a year. How about theowarner?

[16bitheretic]

What about a theistic moderator. Someone with no dog in the hunt. I don't mean VenomfangX or shackofghawd, but one of the semi-intelligent ones.


No one's coming to mind just now, but I'm sure I can find one.....

Is DonExodus still on YouTube? He's an intelligent Theist. If you can't find a Theist, you can ask Concordance from YouTube to moderate. He's pretty neutral on this whole thing.

I think the most likely candidates for new media atheists of note who could be reasonably accepted by both sides to moderate anything between the opposing camps are probably David Smalley (Dogma Debate) or Seth Andrews (Thinking Atheist). Both these guys have friends on either side of "the rift" and manage to have people from either side on their podcasts without being attacked by the other side.

[Steersman]

....
However, in passing, I might recommend to all and sundry, on both sides of the fence – more to one side than the other, Michael Shermer’s The Believing Brain which describes that process rather well. A central theme is his hypothesis that we all, to a greater or lesser extent, pick our beliefs first – with very little thought involved – and then search for “facts” to support them. As he puts it:

In fact, research now overwhelmingly demonstrates that most of our moral decisions are grounded in automatic moral feelings rather than deliberatively rational calculations. We do not reason our way to a moral decision by carefully weighing the evidence for and against; instead, we make intuitive leaps to moral decisions and then rationalize the snap decision after the fact with rational reasons. [pg 237]

Which shows some problematic similarities with religious fundamentalists ….

You are suggesting that we read a book by know 'misogynist' Michael Shermer?

Why...why...you misogynist you!!!! No doubt that book is just a guide on how to hate women!!

:-)

Practically the kiss-of-death in some quarters, isn’t it?

But that is one of my pet peeves about FfTBs (a term which earned me a ban at Greta Christina’s place), i.e., the refusal to provide any evidence for that charge against Shermer. If that “meeting-of-minds” ever gets off the ground, I would hope that that question would be front-and-center as exhibit A of some egregious dogma on the part of FfTB.

But, in passing, curious – as someone commented on here earlier – that RagingBee rather pointedly suggested that Michael Heath was having “mental problems” for his spirited criticism of Benson for peddling that charge ….

[Zenspace]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

*high five*!

I remember you!

(wind here)

hahaha Has the Slymepit now become the safe space that Aplussers retreat to after getting harangued at A+?

Irony, anyone?

Welcome kbonn / Remick!

The Slymepit ends up becoming the real Safe Place instead of A+ ?!?!?! That is really, really going to screw with someone's narrative! :lol: