The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

[Dilurk]

I hadn't heard of Block Saturday (as opposed to Follow Friday) for twitter, but I guess it is a thing in the FTB universe.
...
Anyone who would block Sharon Hill because they disagree on some things is a coward.
We can all think of examples of people who are trolls or spammers who may get blocked because of repeated unwanted tweets. But this pre-emptive blocking is bullshit. I challenge anyone to find a tweet or FB post that Sharon has made to warrant a blocking.

I was on that list last week. Fuck 'em. Don't want their company anyway.

I suspect this might be an attempt to get twitter accounts suspended and possibly terminated. I have watched twitter arguments carried out with theists who seemingly get involved in discussions with atheists ending up with the atheist suspended. Twitter counts the number of times a user gets blocked in some interval of time, and all it takes is for a number of theists to turn around and block you to end up with you suspended. They game the system. I would suspect this aratina person to be trying to game the system as well by organising mass block campaigns against people they want to shut up. In other words we now have atheists who are really religious nutbars masquerading as atheists; they are using the same silencing techniques and believe in dogma.

[sacha]

Speaking of the far left having the same problems as the atheists, the Socialist Worker Party in the UK is getting slammed by feminists.

http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penn ... about-left

Laurie Penny is the Rebecca Watson of the British Left... not as bad as Watson though. Penny is notable for asking WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ sometimes and seeming like she does actually mean it - even if it does come across as being unbelievably naiive on occasion.

Don't get me started on Laurie Penny - her and Watson were twins conjoined at the skull, and when they were separated at birth, they each got half of the brain they shared:

You come to expect it, as a woman writer, particularly if you're political. You come to expect the vitriol, the insults, the death threats. After a while, the emails and tweets and comments containing graphic fantasies of how and where and with what kitchen implements certain pseudonymous people would like to rape you cease to be shocking, and become merely a daily or weekly annoyance, something to phone your girlfriends about, seeking safety in hollow laughter...

Many commentators, wondering aloud where all the strong female voices are, close their eyes to how normal this sort of threat has become. Most mornings, when I go to check my email, Twitter and Facebook accounts, I have to sift through threats of violence, public speculations about my sexual preference and the odour and capacity of my genitals, and attempts to write off challenging ideas with the declaration that, since I and my friends are so very unattractive, anything we have to say must be irrelevant...
After one particular round of rape threats, including the suggestion that, for criticising neoliberal economic policymaking, I should be made to fellate a row of bankers at knifepoint, I was informed that people were searching for my home address. I could go on.

I'd like to say that none of this bothered me – to be one of those women who are strong enough to brush off the abuse, which is always the advice given by people who don't believe bullies and bigots can be fought. Sometimes I feel that speaking about the strength it takes just to turn on the computer, or how I've been afraid to leave my house, is an admission of weakness. Fear that it's somehow your fault for not being strong enough is, of course, what allows abusers to continue to abuse.

I believe the time for silence is over. If we want to build a truly fair and vibrant community of political debate and social exchange, online and offline, it's not enough to ignore harassment of women, LGBT people or people of colour who dare to have opinions. Free speech means being free to use technology and participate in public life without fear of abuse – and if the only people who can do so are white, straight men, the internet is not as free as we'd like to believe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 56946.html

[EdgePenguin]

Speaking of the far left having the same problems as the atheists, the Socialist Worker Party in the UK is getting slammed by feminists.

http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penn ... about-left

Laurie Penny is the Rebecca Watson of the British Left... not as bad as Watson though. Penny is notable for asking WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ sometimes and seeming like she does actually mean it - even if it does come across as being unbelievably naiive on occasion.

Don't get me started on Laurie Penny - her and Watson were twins conjoined at the skull, and when they were separated at birth, they each got half of the brain they shared:

You come to expect it, as a woman writer, particularly if you're political. You come to expect the vitriol, the insults, the death threats. After a while, the emails and tweets and comments containing graphic fantasies of how and where and with what kitchen implements certain pseudonymous people would like to rape you cease to be shocking, and become merely a daily or weekly annoyance, something to phone your girlfriends about, seeking safety in hollow laughter...

Many commentators, wondering aloud where all the strong female voices are, close their eyes to how normal this sort of threat has become. Most mornings, when I go to check my email, Twitter and Facebook accounts, I have to sift through threats of violence, public speculations about my sexual preference and the odour and capacity of my genitals, and attempts to write off challenging ideas with the declaration that, since I and my friends are so very unattractive, anything we have to say must be irrelevant...
After one particular round of rape threats, including the suggestion that, for criticising neoliberal economic policymaking, I should be made to fellate a row of bankers at knifepoint, I was informed that people were searching for my home address. I could go on.

I'd like to say that none of this bothered me – to be one of those women who are strong enough to brush off the abuse, which is always the advice given by people who don't believe bullies and bigots can be fought. Sometimes I feel that speaking about the strength it takes just to turn on the computer, or how I've been afraid to leave my house, is an admission of weakness. Fear that it's somehow your fault for not being strong enough is, of course, what allows abusers to continue to abuse.

I believe the time for silence is over. If we want to build a truly fair and vibrant community of political debate and social exchange, online and offline, it's not enough to ignore harassment of women, LGBT people or people of colour who dare to have opinions. Free speech means being free to use technology and participate in public life without fear of abuse – and if the only people who can do so are white, straight men, the internet is not as free as we'd like to believe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 56946.html

In other words "Free speech means me and my friends being able to shut someone up if they cross our subjectively drawn line of decency"

[AnonymousCowherd]

Hammers literally cost less than ten pounds.

More than you'd get for QPR.

[EdgePenguin]

[youtube]gjrLXS4iXIU[/youtube]

I think this video is bullshit. Europe in general has far greater support for women's healthcare and for maternity leave, and this dose not make women 'unemployable' at all.

[Gumby]

A journalist, Erika Jarvis, published a not entirely hostile interview of Paul Elam, publisher/editor of A Voice for Men at the Toronto Standard.

A few days later, the interview has been memory holed along with any other mention of Jarvis at the Toronto Standard.

Because feminists can't stand saying anything remotely fair and balanced about evil MRAs.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/fe ... ka-jarvis/

A perfect comment from the comment thread of that article:

Misogyny: The radical notion that a man could possibly hate a woman anywhere near as much as other women already do.

[HoneyWagon]

http://www.regretsy.com/2012/12/19/update-2/

http://static.regretsy.com/files/2012/12/dream.jpg

[codelette]

SOME RICH BITCH LIKES SHOES AND SHIT SO LIKE
GIVE EXPENSIVE SHOES TO POOR PEOPLE
BECAUSE SHE SURE AS FUCK DIDNT

New tag line? Anyone?

And new song?
[youtube]wCF3ywukQYA[/youtube]

[Gumby]

I hadn't heard of Block Saturday (as opposed to Follow Friday) for twitter, but I guess it is a thing in the FTB universe.
Found out about it tonight because one person listed here was blocked on twitter and FB by a prominent "skeptic" (Un-named, so I only think I know who it is)
https://twitter.com/aratina/status/290297125273735168
http://i.imgur.com/gTca3.png

Anyone who would block Sharon Hill because they disagree on some things is a coward.
We can all think of examples of people who are trolls or spammers who may get blocked because of repeated unwanted tweets. But this pre-emptive blocking is bullshit. I challenge anyone to find a tweet or FB post that Sharon has made to warrant a blocking.

I hardly ever even tweet anymore, so I was amused to see that Aratina had included me in another one of her "Block Saturday" tweets. My crime? I had a Twitter exchange with some uncritical moron about the total lack of evidence for the claims of misogyny and harrassment that FtB/Skepchick use to perpetuate their agenda. I posted that exchange here, and I never once tweeted at Aratina (although I did use the #FTBullies and #atheismplus hashtags).

What a bunch of sniveling censorial cowards. :lol:

[sacha]

[spoiler]

Edward Gemmer introduced us to his awesomeness here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-523205


Here, EG was accused of being an MRA, before he even knew what an MRA was:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-523269

He was funny here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-523962

and great here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-523989


He is funny throughout the entire comment thread, so you're just gonna have to read it to see!

Every time they tried to be mean he'd say something like 'BURN' or 'ZING"

He had me in stitches

And the best thing is, none of them understood the humour, they took everything at face value and assumed that he was a horrible misogynist in real life. Just goes to show how out of contact with reality the FTB people really are.

[/spoiler]

screencaps, please

[sacha]

Way behind on my reading at this point, some shit came up yesterday. Anyway, for those of you following along at home, there was a bit of a problem with the recording. Since the challenge was made by cunt, I sent him a PM about it and it's up to him at this point if he wants to call it good enough or if I'll be recording a new one. Just in case anyone was thinking I'm backing out.

The part where I make fun of him for realizing he was being an idiot and it's pretty easy to drive a normal nail with a screwdriver, so he went on the internet to look up what the largest size of nails is came out alright, though.

I want to see someone use his White Cock of Authority penis for this instead of a screwdriver.

[AnonymousCowherd]

My condolences to Aaron Swartz's family.

Frankly, the treament of him (so far as I can tell it from newspaper reports) was ridiculously over the top.

In a small way, the actions of even petty ideologues like the FfTB's reflect those of the current crop of kleptocrats and their willing lickspittles in Government in trying to control information and, with that, prevent public examination of their grab for status, or power, or just plain cash.

The US is certainly not alone in going down the "silence dissent, cover your arse, protect your mates" path, though its progress along it makes it easier for place like Oz to follow suit. With all this technology to dispense information, you'd think getting it "out there" would get easier to do, not harder, but given the treatment of Manning you begin to wonder if something like The Pentagon Papers would see daylight now. With the persecution of people like Swartz, it surely becomes a bit harder each day for someone to step up and say "this is not right, and people should know about it". There certainly doesn't seem to be a queue to thank them for their trouble.

[AbsurdWalls]

A journalist, Erika Jarvis, published a not entirely hostile interview of Paul Elam, publisher/editor of A Voice for Men at the Toronto Standard.

A few days later, the interview has been memory holed along with any other mention of Jarvis at the Toronto Standard.

Because feminists can't stand saying anything remotely fair and balanced about evil MRAs.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/fe ... ka-jarvis/

N.B. A Voice For Men is blocked on the UK O2 mobile network as adult content, does it contain any?

[Gumby]

I suspect this might be an attempt to get twitter accounts suspended and possibly terminated. I have watched twitter arguments carried out with theists who seemingly get involved in discussions with atheists ending up with the atheist suspended. Twitter counts the number of times a user gets blocked in some interval of time, and all it takes is for a number of theists to turn around and block you to end up with you suspended. They game the system. I would suspect this aratina person to be trying to game the system as well by organising mass block campaigns against people they want to shut up. In other words we now have atheists who are really religious nutbars masquerading as atheists; they are using the same silencing techniques and believe in dogma.

Hadn't thought of the "suspension" angle. Your explanation makes sense, and it fits in with the fundie mindset of FtB. If what you say is what is actually what is going on, then all I can say is it partly makes me laugh that Aratina is assigning so much importance to the nonsense-fest that is Twitter, and partly makes me sick because of the lengths these assholes will go to to silence people who won't drink their Kool-Aid.

[Gumby]

If what you say is what is actually what is going on,

:lol:

NEED MOAR COFFEE

[AbsurdWalls]

Zinnia Jones has found her way to my blog: http://athmorality.blogspot.com/2013/01 ... adley.html

She seems really skeptical about the existence of lawyers other than the handful she has interacted with professionally. It's a childish attitude. Before I went to university lawyers and doctors and other people with professions such as those were a bit magic to me. They have a special status in society. Now I know a whole bunch of professional people that I was studying alongside I would expect there to be loads of them on Reddit. I mean, some of the ones I know are Redditors.

[AbsurdWalls]

Speaking of the far left having the same problems as the atheists, the Socialist Worker Party in the UK is getting slammed by feminists.

http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penn ... about-left

Laurie Penny is the Rebecca Watson of the British Left... not as bad as Watson though. Penny is notable for asking WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ sometimes and seeming like she does actually mean it - even if it does come across as being unbelievably naiive on occasion.

Don't get me started on Laurie Penny - her and Watson were twins conjoined at the skull, and when they were separated at birth, they each got half of the brain they shared:

You come to expect it, as a woman writer, particularly if you're political. You come to expect the vitriol, the insults, the death threats. After a while, the emails and tweets and comments containing graphic fantasies of how and where and with what kitchen implements certain pseudonymous people would like to rape you cease to be shocking, and become merely a daily or weekly annoyance, something to phone your girlfriends about, seeking safety in hollow laughter...

Many commentators, wondering aloud where all the strong female voices are, close their eyes to how normal this sort of threat has become. Most mornings, when I go to check my email, Twitter and Facebook accounts, I have to sift through threats of violence, public speculations about my sexual preference and the odour and capacity of my genitals, and attempts to write off challenging ideas with the declaration that, since I and my friends are so very unattractive, anything we have to say must be irrelevant...
After one particular round of rape threats, including the suggestion that, for criticising neoliberal economic policymaking, I should be made to fellate a row of bankers at knifepoint, I was informed that people were searching for my home address. I could go on.

I'd like to say that none of this bothered me – to be one of those women who are strong enough to brush off the abuse, which is always the advice given by people who don't believe bullies and bigots can be fought. Sometimes I feel that speaking about the strength it takes just to turn on the computer, or how I've been afraid to leave my house, is an admission of weakness. Fear that it's somehow your fault for not being strong enough is, of course, what allows abusers to continue to abuse.

I believe the time for silence is over. If we want to build a truly fair and vibrant community of political debate and social exchange, online and offline, it's not enough to ignore harassment of women, LGBT people or people of colour who dare to have opinions. Free speech means being free to use technology and participate in public life without fear of abuse – and if the only people who can do so are white, straight men, the internet is not as free as we'd like to believe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 56946.html

I disagree with Penny on... well most of the issues, despite probably being near her on the political compass. Unlike Watson however, I have no doubt that she actually does receive that level of verbal/written abuse. I doubt any of it is a credible real-life threat, but at least Penny has published the correspondences that she refers to. The difference between Penny and Watson that makes Penny's account more believable is that there actually is an organised ideological group that opposes Penny for her political views. To people on he British right she is the embodiment of everything they hate about the left. Watson's account is that people, who share her views on most other things, hate her because she's a woman.

[windy]

The reason I think most of FTB is the pits. Maryam Namazie is, as of right now, engaging actively to get two young men released in Iran who've been imprisoned and sentenced to death for "emnity against god" and "corruption on earth".

Not a single pingback on the other blogs. Stephanie Zvan's latest vomit is writing about the importance of Adam Lee's petition, but neglects to mention the other one.

Yes, that's a demonstration of priorities if I ever saw one. However, not to be all hyperskeptical, but when I went to look for more information about the actual case in Iran, I found some conflicting information. For example, here it says that the charges are involvement in a murder and membership in an opposition party:

http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2011/03/moradi-appeals/

That naturally doesn't make forced confessions and executions any less horrible, but since the sentence was given and the petition created in 2011, why is there suddenly a "twitterstorm" about it two years later? Maybe there has been a new development (and Namazie would have access to original sources) but still, I can't find any mention of that letter she is referring to on the International Committee against Execution homepage. And their Facebook page refers back to Namazie's FtB post! Something doesn't add up here.

[Jan Steen]

Zinnia Jones has found her way to my blog: http://athmorality.blogspot.com/2013/01 ... adley.html

She seems really skeptical about the existence of lawyers other than the handful she has interacted with professionally. It's a childish attitude. Before I went to university lawyers and doctors and other people with professions such as those were a bit magic to me. They have a special status in society. Now I know a whole bunch of professional people that I was studying alongside I would expect there to be loads of them on Reddit. I mean, some of the ones I know are Redditors.

You don't have to be a lawyer to grasp that it can't possibly be in a defendant's interest if a witness talks about the case in public before the trial. Zinnia's hyperscepticism is just a smoke screen.

[BarnOwl]

I've stayed out of this discussion because I thought the answer was obvious by looking at the shoes. I've realised that after about 30 years of working where I am walking or standing the entire time, what is obvious to me, is not to everyone.

Fashion is the only consideration. No one who stands or walks for long periods of time on a regular basis would ever consider shoes that look like this

The area that is subjected to the most pressure when wearing any shoe with a heel, is the ball of one's foot. Even a small amount of platform between that area and the ground will reduce the effects of gravity cause by the incline. These shoes have none. Also shoes made for walking, focus on providing cushioning under the ball of the foot.

Comfort and support should be the primary considerations for anyone who spends a significant amount of time walking and standing while working every day (you'd think that FtB SJWs would understand "comfort and support"). If I could wear lightweight hiking boots or cushioned ankle boots for work every day, I would do so. Most of the year, though, it's too warm here to do so, and that breathability component is critical. I can't wear sandals if I'm working in the lab (EH&S policy), though I've found huaraches with arch support and a cushioned footbed that were great for walking. I have flat arches and I'm an over-pronater, so arch support in my shoes is a necessity.

Another consideration that should show up on the SJW radar (but apparently does not) is where the shoes are made and under what conditions. The UK company Hotter started selling their shoes in the US about two years ago, and theirs have become my favorite shoes for work. Not super-fashionable like the Fluevogs, but extremely comfortable and well-made by adults in the UK in a safe/healthy work environment, not by young children in a developing country where the work environment may be very unsafe/unhealthy and poorly monitored. Hotter USA has frequent sales, with prices less than half of those for most Fluevogs.

[BarnOwl]

You don't have to be a lawyer to grasp that it can't possibly be in a defendant's interest if a witness talks about the case in public before the trial. Zinnia's hyperscepticism is just a smoke screen.

Zinnia is exhibiting the classic FtB response to disagreement and to being demonstrably just plain fucking wrong: dig a deeper trench, and hunker down in a mire of smugness and righteous indignation.

Perhaps Mykeru can lend her an entrenching tool.

[Lurkion]

You don't have to be a lawyer to grasp that it can't possibly be in a defendant's interest if a witness talks about the case in public before the trial. Zinnia's hyperscepticism is just a smoke screen.

Zinnia is exhibiting the classic FtB response to disagreement and to being demonstrably just plain fucking wrong: dig a deeper trench, and hunker down in a mire of smugness and righteous indignation.

Perhaps Mykeru can lend her an entrenching tool.

I thought this was a good response on reddit:

"There's really nothing I can say at this point that isn't already known publicly."

So what you're saying is that this AMA contributes nothing whatsoever of value? Nice.

[Gumby]

Oh Noes!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... b0ed2d.jpg

Another fantasy destroyed. Oh well, at least I'll save money on Kleenex and Jergens Lotion.

[Tigzy]

I disagree with Penny on... well most of the issues, despite probably being near her on the political compass. Unlike Watson however, I have no doubt that she actually does receive that level of verbal/written abuse. I doubt any of it is a credible real-life threat, but at least Penny has published the correspondences that she refers to. The difference between Penny and Watson that makes Penny's account more believable is that there actually is an organised ideological group that opposes Penny for her political views. To people on he British right she is the embodiment of everything they hate about the left. Watson's account is that people, who share her views on most other things, hate her because she's a woman.

Well I'm on the British left, and 'Penny Red' is everything I hate about the left, too:

We wear name cards and nibble at salted peanuts, and talk to a lot of important people who write about politics for a living. We listen to a genteel debate, sitting down a little stiffly because our legs are covered in baton bruises from the scuffles in Trafalgar Square and Piccadilly. We walk home by the river, smoking.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyy ... -satirist/

Typical sixth-form socialist.

Anyways, it's been posted here before, but I think it deserves another airing - David Starkey giving 'Trafalgar Square Warrior' Laurie Penny a massive on-stage smackdown:
[spoiler][youtube]oj9dA6E3fJw[/youtube][/spoiler]

[sacha]

Unless your wife or girlfriend is a nymphomaniac you do not have the right to screw her whenever you wish just because you have a hard on - that thinking belongs in the Dark Ages - and I am not suggesting this has never happened to me, because like most men it has, but if the lady says no, then you have to accept that - end of

*smirk*

The way I see it. If you own a dog, unless you are falling down sick, there is no excuse for not taking it out for a walk every day.

Same thing with a man sacha and sex IMO. Any man who owns a dog man sacha has to understand that part of the deal is taking fucking the dog man sacha regularly.

The dog needs the walk, and it is generally better for the both of you that you do.

*smirk*

[masakari2012]

[youtube]gjrLXS4iXIU[/youtube]

I think this video is bullshit. Europe in general has far greater support for women's healthcare and for maternity leave, and this dose not make women 'unemployable' at all.

I didn't agree with the whole video either, but he does make some good points in other areas.

EDITING TO FIX SPOILER TAGS

[masakari2012]

Aw fuck, looks like I broke the Slyme Pit. (I'm hoping this post appears normally)

[Gumby]

Reap, we always knew you were a bad influence!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... ddebdc.jpg

[Pitchguest]

Cheers Pitchguest, I didn't notice before. I signed the petition and promoted it on Twitter. I'll try to get a blog post out about it today.

Much obliged, Notung! :handgestures-thumbup: Every little bit helps.

http://www.abccopywriting.com/blog/wp-c ... lps-lo.jpg

[JAB]

I hadn't heard of Block Saturday (as opposed to Follow Friday) for twitter, but I guess it is a thing in the FTB universe.
Found out about it tonight because one person listed here was blocked on twitter and FB by a prominent "skeptic" (Un-named, so I only think I know who it is)
https://twitter.com/aratina/status/290297125273735168
http://i.imgur.com/gTca3.png

Anyone who would block Sharon Hill because they disagree on some things is a coward.
We can all think of examples of people who are trolls or spammers who may get blocked because of repeated unwanted tweets. But this pre-emptive blocking is bullshit. I challenge anyone to find a tweet or FB post that Sharon has made to warrant a blocking.

Yeah, I love how "a rat in a cage" just lives to keep making s/h/it's cage smaller and smaller.

[codelette]

Reap, we always knew you were a bad influence!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... ddebdc.jpg

I think this was caused by Reap's callously calling Stephie a "bitch". Reap, you should apologize to Stephie. I have an idea for the apology letter:
http://i.imgur.com/JnBLs.png

You're welcome, Reap.

[Scented Nectar]

This just came in as a video response to mine.

Sermon On The Mounted
[youtube]X0EJLEnnfto[/youtube]

[cunt]

Speaking of the far left having the same problems as the atheists, the Socialist Worker Party in the UK is getting slammed by feminists.

http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penn ... about-left

Seems like the feminists are right on this one. Attempting to try a rape case though an internal party disciplinary committee because you don't trust the "bourgeois criminal justice system" is despicable. I'd really like to see the minutes of that meeting though.

[LMU]

Cracked claims that in the European Dark Ages "women were treated like cattle" is a myth! Must have been written by an MRA. #2 here: http://www.cracked.com/article_20186_6- ... es_p2.html

[AbsurdWalls]

Interesting gender feminist versus other feminist (the SJW type) controversy today:

Last week Suzanne Moore put an article in the New Statesmen about "women's anger" including the bizarre line:

The cliché is that female anger is always turned inwards rather than outwards into despair. We are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being loved properly and not having the ideal body shape – that of a Brazilian transsexual. We are angry that men do not do enough. We are angry at work where we are underpaid and overlooked. This anger can be neatly channelled and outsourced to make someone a fat profit. Are your hormones okay? Do you need a nice bath? Some sex tips and an internet date? What if, contrary to Sex and the City, new shoes do not fill the hole in your soul? What if you aspire to another model of womanhood than the mute but beautifully groomed Kate Middleton? What if your anguish is not illogical but actually bloody spot on?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... male-anger

Moore got called out for transphobia (and racism!) on Twitter:
http://storify.com/leftytgirl/suzanne-m ... ource=t.co

(this includes input from moronic king-cunt JonnieMarbLes who you may remember pied Rupert Murdoch in the face - he is friends with Laurie Penny, to tie that all together)

Moore eventually flounced from Twitter after getting a lot of "input" from people who found her comment transphobic:

People can just fuck off really. Cut their dicks off and be more feminist than me. Good for them.

Today, Julie Burchill has responded with an extraordinary article in the Guardian:

She, the other JB and I are part of the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street and I think this partly contributes to the stand-off with the trannies. (I know that's a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their lot describe born women as 'Cis' – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all nasty stuff – they're lucky I'm not calling them shemales. Or shims.) We know that everything we have we got for ourselves. We have no family money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.

The trans lobby is now saying that it wasn't so much the initial piece as Suzanne's refusal to apologise when told to that "made" them drive her from Twitter. Presumably she is meant to do this in the name of solidarity and the "struggle", though I find it very hard to imagine this mob struggling with anything apart from the English language and the concept of free speech.

To have your cock cut off and then plead special privileges as women – above natural-born women, who don't know the meaning of suffering, apparently – is a bit like the old definition of chutzpah: the boy who killed his parents and then asked the jury for clemency on the grounds he was an orphan.

Shims, shemales, whatever you're calling yourselves these days – don't threaten or bully us lowly natural-born women, I warn you. We may not have as many lovely big swinging Phds as you, but we've experienced a lifetime of PMT and sexual harassment and many of us are now staring HRT and the menopause straight in the face – and still not flinching. Trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet. You really won't like us when we're angry.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... anssexuals

[Scented Nectar]

By the way, planned to say this earlier about what people said about large salaries for non-profit organisations directors and business managers. I think before you say - oh this person is getting too much money - try and work out what you think they'd get if they were working for a corporate organisation.

You generally get the kind of employees you pay for (YMMV, obvs) and super successful business managers and directors would make a whole lot more dosh if they worked at a corporate place. The salaries they're making are proabbly a massive paycut from what they're worth.

Maybe, but I've not known many in upper management to actually DO anything. They mostly seem to be expensive title holders, but with suitable attitudes and buzzwords and willingness to attend meetings and lunches with major clients. That's anecdotal (places I've worked and where friends have worked), but I'm very skeptical about people I see as do-nothing office placeholders making 6 digit salaries.

[Mykeru]

Reap, we always knew you were a bad influence!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... ddebdc.jpg

Yeah, well look at the kind of scumbags Aratina hangs with:

[spoiler]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8376 ... 49ae_c.jpg[/spoiler]

[AbsurdWalls]

Scented Nectar's post made me think of this song as an addendum to my previous post:
[youtube]RTOQUnvI3CA[/youtube]

My thoughts btw, are that Moore's comment was a bizarre thing to put in the original piece, the response of the trans activists was an over-reaction, and Moore and Burchill's response to that over-reaction was an even greater over-reaction.

[cunt]

I usually can't stand Julie Burchill but:

She, the other JB and I are part of the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street and I think this partly contributes to the stand-off with the trannies. (I know that's a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their lot describe born women as 'Cis' – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all nasty stuff – they're lucky I'm not calling them shemales. Or shims.) We know that everything we have we got for ourselves. We have no family money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.

Hahaha, spot on.

[JAB]

Why's she doing this? She could be truly naive, or truly stupid. She could be doing it out of self-interest, whether she's narcisisstically seeking attention or greedily seeking income (blog hits, or as someone somewhere suggested, maybe thinking about trying for a book deal). Or she could be trying to sabotage the defense, though it's not clear why she'd do that, nor does the content of what she has said seem to fit with that.

She might be trying to sabotage her own participation in the trial. Poisoning herself as a witness so that she doesn't have to go.

Except at this point if the defense drops her from their list, the prosecution will add her to their list.

[Bhurzum]

This just came in as a video response to mine.

Sermon On The Mounted
[youtube]X0EJLEnnfto[/youtube]

Now that's a disturbing video. Peezee speaking with the nasal voice of Twatson.

Ugh!

Note: It has sparked off some old memories. The music of "Frankie goes to Hollywood" was always a bone of contention in my youth. I (a strictly heterosexual bloke) loved the album, much to the derision of my mates. Seriously, at the risk of sounding like Patrick Bateman, the production value of "Welcome to the pleasure dome" is off the chart!

(Pure nostalgia!)

[LMU]

[spoiler]

Do you have a link or screencap of where they called you a rapist

http://skepchick.org/2012/12/skepchick- ... /#comments

It is near the bottom where I told someone I did not remember exactly what they said. It was what I thought was a fairly benign conversaion. People were making fun of weirdos on OK Cupid who did not appear to be nice guys. There was an insinuation that anyone who thought a woman could have a moral obligation to have sex was a rapist. I tried to think of ways someone could think that and not be a rapist and that led to the conclusion that I was in fact a rapist. Good to know, I guess

Discounting the emotional content of her posts, I have to say that I agree with Marilove here on the fundamental principle that there should never be a moral obligation on the part of anyone to have sex with anyone else and I deliberately reference this as non gender specific too, even though she was doing so from a feminist perspective. Indeed I agreed with everything in her exchange with you apart from one thing and that was where she said that a man never has to fear being raped. The fear may not exist but the actuality most certainly does. Oh and Marilove most definitely is female, not that that matters, but she is - since you had some doubts regarding her gender. She certainly does not pull her punches but having one s mindset being tested to its absolute by those who fundamentally disagree with one s position is - at least for me - a vital and necessary experience, so in that respect I salute her and any others who directly or indirectly challenge my own and long may it continue

Is it possible to have a moral obligation to do anything ? Can one have a moral obligation to share affection with ones spouse ? If so, is there something special about sex that makes it exempt from any such obligation ?

The problem regarding moral obligation as pertaining to sex is that it can create a conflict of interest between doing what is required of one and doing what one wants to do. These two are not always compatible. So to eliminate this ambiguity, there should be a simple rule that no moral obligation is required and that sex is only permittable when all parties freely consent to it and even then that if at any point during the act of sex that one party wishes - for whatever reason - to abstain that that is allowed and absolutely so, too. This is a wonderful ideal but like all ideals does not translate very well to reality, but in principle I think it is the natural default position - at least for me. Of course it does not help that men generally have higher sex drives than women and that women generally see sex as an expression of love rather than lust but even so. What needs to be challenged is the notion of moral obligation to providing sex for one s partner out of necessity rather than desire. Unless your wife or girlfriend is a nymphomaniac you do not have the right to screw her whenever you wish just because you have a hard on - that thinking belongs in the Dark Ages - and I am not suggesting this has never happened to me, because like most men it has, but if the lady says no, then you have to accept that - end of[/spoiler]

EdwardGemmer and somedumbguy both had good responses to you I think, so you may wish to respond to them instead of me and I apologize for dogpiling.

"The problem regarding moral obligation as pertaining to sex is that it can create a conflict of interest between doing what is required of one and doing what one wants to do."

This is a problem with all obligations, not just moral ones related to sex. I can want to not pay my electric bill, but still be obligated to do so. It is possible to be obligated to give, even where it would be wrong to take. Also there is an important difference between wanting to do something and consenting to do something, sex work is based on this distinction (unless you think all prostitution is rape?). If you consent to an arrangement where you agree to do something, you are then obligated to do that thing. You can later renege, but there are usually consequences. For example if I refused to pay my electric bill, my electricity could be shut off.

"Unless your wife or girlfriend is a nymphomaniac you do not have the right to screw her whenever you wish just because you have a hard on "

This is a straw man, and a frustrating one because it is used so frequently by baboons. No one is arguing this here.

[Mykeru]

This just came in as a video response to mine.

Sermon On The Mounted
[youtube]X0EJLEnnfto[/youtube]

Now that's a disturbing video. Peezee speaking with the nasal voice of Twatson.

Ugh!

Note: It has sparked off some old memories. The music of "Frankie goes to Hollywood" was always a bone of contention in my youth. I (a strictly heterosexual bloke) loved the album, much to the derision of my mates. Seriously, at the risk of sounding like Patrick Bateman, the production value of "Welcome to the pleasure dome" is off the chart!

(Pure nostalgia!)

I just want to know what lip sync software that is.

[Tkmlac]

I usually can't stand Julie Burchill but:

She, the other JB and I are part of the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street and I think this partly contributes to the stand-off with the trannies. (I know that's a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their lot describe born women as 'Cis' – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all nasty stuff – they're lucky I'm not calling them shemales. Or shims.) We know that everything we have we got for ourselves. We have no family money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.

Hahaha, spot on.

The Cis name is kind of silly, however, I've never heard a transperson use that IRL. In fact, my handful of trans friends who don't spend their time on the internet haven't heard the term. They transitioned, badabing, badaboom, got on with their lives and the more important shit they deal with, like homeownership, working, relationships, yada yada. I've used the term when talking about gender because there's no other good, short word that can describe "identifying and expressing yourself completely with the sex you were born with."

[Dick Strawkins]

This just came in as a video response to mine.

Sermon On The Mounted
[youtube]X0EJLEnnfto[/youtube]

Now that's a disturbing video. Peezee speaking with the nasal voice of Twatson.

Ugh!

Note: It has sparked off some old memories. The music of "Frankie goes to Hollywood" was always a bone of contention in my youth. I (a strictly heterosexual bloke) loved the album, much to the derision of my mates. Seriously, at the risk of sounding like Patrick Bateman, the production value of "Welcome to the pleasure dome" is off the chart!

(Pure nostalgia!)

I just want to know what lip sync software that is.

There's an app on the iphone/ipad that does quite good lip-synchs.
It's called photospeak. I'm not sure it was used for the above video (I think you can only do face shots rather than whole body shots with the face animated) but it does give you a decent lip-synch animation and allows you to export the files so that you can use the section in a video.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Hello!

First poster here, I hope everyone is fine.

I'm a bit behind on the reading, roughly in the middle of that Zinnia Jones business. Quite facepalmingly stupid of her.

[cunt]

The Cis name is kind of silly, however, I've never heard a transperson use that IRL. In fact, my handful of trans friends who don't spend their time on the internet haven't heard the term. They transitioned, badabing, badaboom, got on with their lives and the more important shit they deal with, like homeownership, working, relationships, yada yada. I've used the term when talking about gender because there's no other good, short word that can describe "identifying and expressing yourself completely with the sex you were born with."

My experience is a bit more limited than that, only ever known one person who transitioned. Also no SJW terms 'cis', 'biowoman', or other insistence that they really were a woman. Just that they prefer to present to the world as a woman.

[Dick Strawkins]

I usually can't stand Julie Burchill but:

She, the other JB and I are part of the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street and I think this partly contributes to the stand-off with the trannies. (I know that's a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their lot describe born women as 'Cis' – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all nasty stuff – they're lucky I'm not calling them shemales. Or shims.) We know that everything we have we got for ourselves. We have no family money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.

Hahaha, spot on.

The Cis name is kind of silly, however, I've never heard a transperson use that IRL. In fact, my handful of trans friends who don't spend their time on the internet haven't heard the term. They transitioned, badabing, badaboom, got on with their lives and the more important shit they deal with, like homeownership, working, relationships, yada yada. I've used the term when talking about gender because there's no other good, short word that can describe "identifying and expressing yourself completely with the sex you were born with."

"cis" is a common term in molecular biology, denoting something that has an effect in its immediate locality - as opposed to "trans" meaning something that has an effect at a different location.
I guess it is probably common in other areas of science too.
It is rather strange that it should be taken up as a term by the social justice warriors because it is suggestive of two distinct groups - the cis and the trans - whereas in reality the "cis" group is going to consist of 99.9% of the population (basically consisting of almost all heterosexuals and homosexuals) while the "trans" group will be part of the remainder.
Who the hell considers themselves a "cis" sexual?
As a hetero I probably have much more in common with the majority of transexuals than I do with a lot of my fellow "cis" folk, such as those of the hatey-hatey radfem lesbian persuasion.

[Scented Nectar]

I just want to know what lip sync software that is.

Me too. It leaves my karaoke clips in the dust!

[CommanderTuvok]

Zinnia is exhibiting the classic FtB response to disagreement and to being demonstrably just plain fucking wrong: dig a deeper trench, and hunker down in a mire of smugness and righteous indignation.

Perhaps Mykeru can lend her an entrenching tool.

Yep, it is what they call "doubling down". But as per usual, it doesn't apply to them.

[AbsurdWalls]

[spoiler]

I usually can't stand Julie Burchill but:

She, the other JB and I are part of the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street and I think this partly contributes to the stand-off with the trannies. (I know that's a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their lot describe born women as 'Cis' – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all nasty stuff – they're lucky I'm not calling them shemales. Or shims.) We know that everything we have we got for ourselves. We have no family money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.

Hahaha, spot on.

[/spoiler]
The Cis name is kind of silly, however, I've never heard a transperson use that IRL. In fact, my handful of trans friends who don't spend their time on the internet haven't heard the term. They transitioned, badabing, badaboom, got on with their lives and the more important shit they deal with, like homeownership, working, relationships, yada yada. I've used the term when talking about gender because there's no other good, short word that can describe "identifying and expressing yourself completely with the sex you were born with."

In retrospect, I imagine Burchill spotted what happened to Moore, thought "I could go for some of that public flogging!" and wrote an article specifically to attract derisory attention. She must think she will somehow benefit from it.

[Dick Strawkins]

I just want to know what lip sync software that is.

Me too. It leaves my karaoke clips in the dust!

i'm pretty sure you could use photospeak for that level of realism.

[Dick Strawkins]

Regarding Zinnia Jones, has anyone else heard the rumor that she talked a lot more about this case on the FTB backchannel and what she said there is a lot more explosive for the case than what she has made public so far?

If I were on Mannings defence team I'd be requesting a copy of all the FTB backchannel communication immediately.

[JAB]

This just came in as a video response to mine.

Sermon On The Mounted
X0EJLEnnfto

Now that's a disturbing video. Peezee speaking with the nasal voice of Twatson.

Ugh!

I'm not sure, but I think the concept was that it was RW talking but using PZ as her ventriloquist's dummy. That's why it keeps cutting to RW face moving but not her lips... and she appears to have a hand up his skirt. I think it's a wonderful statement of their relationship, if a bit disturbing as a visual.

[AbsurdWalls]

"cis" is a common term in molecular biology, denoting something that has an effect in its immediate locality - as opposed to "trans" meaning something that has an effect at a different location.
I guess it is probably common in other areas of science too.
It is rather strange that it should be taken up as a term by the social justice warriors because it is suggestive of two distinct groups - the cis and the trans - whereas in reality the "cis" group is going to consist of 99.9% of the population (basically consisting of almost all heterosexuals and homosexuals) while the "trans" group will be part of the remainder.
Who the hell considers themselves a "cis" sexual?
As a hetero I probably have much more in common with the majority of transexuals than I do with a lot of my fellow "cis" folk, such as those of the hatey-hatey radfem lesbian persuasion.

I think the trans* activists borrow it from chemistry. Some organic compounds can exist in two forms (called isomers), either a cis-form or a trans-form based on the orientation of the functional groups in that compound. If they're rotated to be on the same side they are cis-, otherwise they are trans-. This is related to what happened with thalidomide. It turns out that one form of the thalidomide drug does what it's supposed to (combat morning sickness), but the other form causes birth defects. Unfortunately the chemical can rotate and turn from one form to the other (importantly from the safe form to the dangerous form) in the blood.

[cunt]

In retrospect, I imagine Burchill spotted what happened to Moore, thought "I could go for some of that public flogging!" and wrote an article specifically to attract derisory attention. She must think she will somehow benefit from it.

Julie Burchill setting out to troll the guardian's readership. Never.

[Tkmlac]

I usually can't stand Julie Burchill but:

She, the other JB and I are part of the minority of women of working-class origin to make it in what used to be called Fleet Street and I think this partly contributes to the stand-off with the trannies. (I know that's a wrong word, but having recently discovered that their lot describe born women as 'Cis' – sounds like syph, cyst, cistern; all nasty stuff – they're lucky I'm not calling them shemales. Or shims.) We know that everything we have we got for ourselves. We have no family money, no safety net. And we are damned if we are going to be accused of being privileged by a bunch of bed-wetters in bad wigs.

Hahaha, spot on.

The Cis name is kind of silly, however, I've never heard a transperson use that IRL. In fact, my handful of trans friends who don't spend their time on the internet haven't heard the term. They transitioned, badabing, badaboom, got on with their lives and the more important shit they deal with, like homeownership, working, relationships, yada yada. I've used the term when talking about gender because there's no other good, short word that can describe "identifying and expressing yourself completely with the sex you were born with."

"cis" is a common term in molecular biology, denoting something that has an effect in its immediate locality - as opposed to "trans" meaning something that has an effect at a different location.
I guess it is probably common in other areas of science too.
It is rather strange that it should be taken up as a term by the social justice warriors because it is suggestive of two distinct groups - the cis and the trans - whereas in reality the "cis" group is going to consist of 99.9% of the population (basically consisting of almost all heterosexuals and homosexuals) while the "trans" group will be part of the remainder.
Who the hell considers themselves a "cis" sexual?
As a hetero I probably have much more in common with the majority of transexuals than I do with a lot of my fellow "cis" folk, such as those of the hatey-hatey radfem lesbian persuasion.

I think if we got right down to it, we'd find more of a scale than an either/or when it comes to gender identity and expression, like the proposed scale for sexuality. The breakup of "CIS" or "trans" seems too prescriptive to me.

[welch]

I'd heard it here, but didm't think much about it, but, yeah, Misspelling Physiofucke is posting "Moby Dicke". Pigfucker can't even leave the book alone, but he has to insert his particular fetish into that too. Is this some kind of mental thing, or is he just a poser, or a douchebag, or both? I'm going with all three myself, but...eh.

If he drums like he writes, it'll suck

[Tkmlac]

In retrospect, I imagine Burchill spotted what happened to Moore, thought "I could go for some of that public flogging!" and wrote an article specifically to attract derisory attention. She must think she will somehow benefit from it.

Julie Burchill setting out to troll the guardian's readership. Never.

I've never heard of this lady. I suspect that's a good thing. I hate to make this analogy, because it's used to describe the anti-FtB crowd, but if she were describing some kind of racism of blacks toward whites, pointed out the flaw in their racism and then started calling them the N word, she wouldn't have been given a platform to stand on. I'll make the point right now, so I don't have to defend it later, that the "bitch" and "cunt" analogy doesn't work because those words have changed their meanings. "Nigger" and "tranny" or "shemale" is not used for any other definition and those groups have been extremely ostracized and oppressed, whereas women have been oppressed in some ways, but still benefitted from the class and race they belonged to. (ie, white women from the upper class, while unable to vote or control their reproductive organs, would still be miles above any black man or trans person in terms of mobility and standard of living 100 years ago).

[Scented Nectar]

I just want to know what lip sync software that is.

Me too. It leaves my karaoke clips in the dust!

i'm pretty sure you could use photospeak for that level of realism.

I just downloaded a Windows version to try out. I don't own any Mac anythings.