Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

[incognito]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

OK... my first Welcome (I think).

Someone, I am reasonably certain, will be along to hand you the traditions "basket of links" given to a former member of A+, and someone else with a welcome mat with the traditional "FUCK OFF" written on it.

Wind can do both actually. But we will see.

Required reading basket of links:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6212/7000 ... c8c08b.jpg
And Remick, FUCK OFF!

:)

[Altair]

Comical Jenni has a new post up. The usual stuff about why she's sick of the Skeptic movement because it's not what she wants it to be. Nice to see that her flounce remains as impermanent as ever, despite previous baboon wailings to the contrary. Anyways, this is the bit that stuck out for me:

I’ve grown reluctant to deal with the egos of skeptic celebrities and politics of skeptical organizations who, frankly, aren’t the great skeptics they think they are. But I’ll still keep writing and speaking about science and skepticism because, well, I find them important and interesting. I’ve realized I don’t need to be an official part of a group or a movement to do those things, nor am I personally responsible for spending my time and energy in improving a movement that is so stubbornly resisting improvement.

That's gotta be a veiled FU to Atheism Plus, hasn't it?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... -blogging/
http://www.freezepage.com/1359663287KZLZSFAMUN

It could also apply to the atheist movement in general, but I sooo hope it refers to A+.

All of the blogs I had once loved now hardly ever produce unique material about atheism or skepticism because they’re too busy reacting to trolls or debating some “big name skeptic” (who is really just some shmuck* only known to a small group of people whose opinions have little effect on the world at large)

What she fails to realize, or at least to mention, is that bloggers don't have to do that. The "reacting to trolls" or "debating a big name skeptic" is entirely the blogger's choice. For example, right now at SIN there all kinds of articles, some of which have nothing to do with the current debacle.
What she sees as "hardly ever producing unique material about atheism or skepticism", the bloggers probably see as writing controversial stuff to increase page views.

[another lurker]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

Welcome!

I am from FTB, and I have not yet told anyone why I left the place.

They drove me off for the most idiotic reason you could EVER imagine. It had nothing to do with feminism, nothing at all.

It was over...

capitalization and punctuation

Yes. I admitted that, sometimes, I do not care if someone attacks my intelligence because I made a spelling mistake, or did not properly punctuate.

I was immediately attacked by a fair number of forum regulars, and accused of being an 'arrogant asshole', amongst other things. Apparently, many people have reading and vision problems, and I am an arrogant, uncaring ass, for not catering to them.

Here is the rub though - I have always taken great pains to not only type coherently, but to avoid as many grammatical mistakes as possible, on the FTB forums. So, in other words, I had not *yet* done anything wrong on FTB. They were upset with me, and treating me as if I was some sort of rapist, because I admitted that in *some*, circumstances, I do not care if I make spelling mistakes. Now why is this? I live in a 100 year old wood house and I do not have central heating. Try typing when you can't feel your fingers. It's HARD. I am typing right now and having a lot of trouble, because it is so cold. If I am talking to people in a VIDEO GAME*, or to a friend on AIM/ICQ, I really can't be bothered to go to the extra effort of making sure everything is perfect. People in games don't care, either. As long as one is coherent, that is all that really matters. And people who try to look 'smart' by attacking their opponent's typos are just idiots, and should not be taken seriously.

So, after attacking me for the oh so rapey/ableist/misogynist sin of potential bad grammar, they got really angry with me when I committed the error of TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF. So I got called MORE NAMES and accused of MORE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

The entire thing was so fucking SURREAL that I decided to visit the 'pit, and see what others had to say about the complete disconnect from reality within FTB.






*video game typing is challenging in and of itself, considering the fact that one is often maneuvering their character around the world while trying to type coherently. perfect grammar is not always possible, and nor should it be expected, in such an environment.

[16bitheretic]

As for the future of PZ-style atheism/skepticism, not to get all melodramatic, but I'm reminded of that Winston Churchill quote -- something like "not the end, or the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning." The FTB model is just unsustainable. They've isolated themselves from the mainstream because they won't engage with the mainstream. Ultimately, people are going to discover that they can't live up to PZ's impossible standards of ideological purity. And I'm singling out PZ because it pretty much begins and ends with him and a few of his cronies of Minnesota.

I would say have a little more faith in liberals. Listen to Obama. Listen to Jon Stewart. Listen to Hillary Clinton. Not a whiff of the radicalism you hear from FTB. American liberalism, at least, actually tends to be pretty moderate.

Your alternative to FtB is to listen to two neo-con Democrats to the right of Nixon and a TV comedian? LOL@merkins. Don't confuse the armchair activism of FtB and friends with political radicalism (which the US left could use more of, not less).

Oh, I hear you Windy....there are principled and knowledgeable liberals in America....but of course, they get next to no recognition or airtime, and have a lot of trouble getting a voice in the public discourse. There is plenty of room for an intelligent debate on a lot of issues both social and fiscal (and both), but the pre-determined narratives are very hard to crack. Ask that we not let people die in the streets, you're a commie....ask that the gov not regulate personal behavior too much, you're a gun toting fascist or an idealistic libertarian....it's a bit fucked.

THIS OMG THIS!

Seriously, I'm getting tired of the politics debates I've encountered on various places. You're either painted as an Ayn Rand fanatic or Karl Marx worshipper. What a horrid thing for a self-identified liberal like myself to say "Yeah, I'm not real crazy about the guns, but I don't feel that banning a Bushmaster rifle is gonna make me any safer at work" Suddenly: HOLY SHIT I MUST BE SOME REDNECK WITH A WHOLE ARSENAL IN MY HOUSE AND A GUNRACK IN A PICKUP TRUCK WHO LOVES GLENN BECK! Really? Really now!?

I also love how I must be some entitlement whore who wants you all to pay for lazy do-nothings because I support nationalized health care and social safety nets. It's like they think I want to remove all semblance of market economics and fundamentally alter the world economy. I think too many people nowadays don;t do anything but seek out the more sensationalist entertainment driven versions of news, and what they get is loads and loads of slanted opinion-as-fact and confirmation bias.

[Metalogic42]

@Mykeru: thanks for the info. Sounds a bit pricey for me at the moment, though :/ Maybe I'll just get a good pair of hiking boots for now.

[incognito]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

Welcome!

I am from FTB, and I have not yet told anyone why I left the place.

They drove me off for the most idiotic reason you could EVER imagine. It had nothing to do with feminism, nothing at all.

It was over...

capitalization and punctuation

Yes. I admitted that, sometimes, I do not care if someone attacks my intelligence because I made a spelling mistake, or did not properly punctuate.

I was immediately attacked by a fair number of forum regulars, and accused of being an 'arrogant asshole', amongst other things. Apparently, many people have reading and vision problems, and I am an arrogant, uncaring ass, for not catering to them.

Here is the rub though - I have always taken great pains to not only type coherently, but to avoid as many grammatical mistakes as possible, on the FTB forums. So, in other words, I had not *yet* done anything wrong on FTB. They were upset with me, and treating me as if I was some sort of rapist, because I admitted that in *some*, circumstances, I do not care if I make spelling mistakes. Now why is this? I live in a 100 year old wood house and I do not have central heating. Try typing when you can't feel your fingers. It's HARD. I am typing right now and having a lot of trouble, because it is so cold. If I am talking to people in a VIDEO GAME*, or to a friend on AIM/ICQ, I really can't be bothered to go to the extra effort of making sure everything is perfect. People in games don't care, either. As long as one is coherent, that is all that really matters. And people who try to look 'smart' by attacking their opponent's typos are just idiots, and should not be taken seriously.

So, after attacking me for the oh so rapey/ableist/misogynist sin of potential bad grammar, they got really angry with me when I committed the error of TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF. So I got called MORE NAMES and accused of MORE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

The entire thing was so fucking SURREAL that I decided to visit the 'pit, and see what others had to say about the complete disconnect from reality within FTB.






*video game typing is challenging in and of itself, considering the fact that one is often maneuvering their character around the world while trying to type coherently. perfect grammar is not always possible, and nor should it be expected, in such an environment.

WOW.

If you ever get brave, you should provide a link.
FWIW, I would have been stunned, too.

[Remick]

What she sees as "hardly ever producing unique material about atheism or skepticism", the bloggers probably see as writing controversial stuff to increase page views.

A sign there might yet be some hope for her.

[Submariner]

As for the future of PZ-style atheism/skepticism, not to get all melodramatic, but I'm reminded of that Winston Churchill quote -- something like "not the end, or the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning." The FTB model is just unsustainable. They've isolated themselves from the mainstream because they won't engage with the mainstream. Ultimately, people are going to discover that they can't live up to PZ's impossible standards of ideological purity. And I'm singling out PZ because it pretty much begins and ends with him and a few of his cronies of Minnesota.

I would say have a little more faith in liberals. Listen to Obama. Listen to Jon Stewart. Listen to Hillary Clinton. Not a whiff of the radicalism you hear from FTB. American liberalism, at least, actually tends to be pretty moderate.

Your alternative to FtB is to listen to two neo-con Democrats to the right of Nixon and a TV comedian? LOL@merkins. Don't confuse the armchair activism of FtB and friends with political radicalism (which the US left could use more of, not less).

Oh, I hear you Windy....there are principled and knowledgeable liberals in America....but of course, they get next to no recognition or airtime, and have a lot of trouble getting a voice in the public discourse. There is plenty of room for an intelligent debate on a lot of issues both social and fiscal (and both), but the pre-determined narratives are very hard to crack. Ask that we not let people die in the streets, you're a commie....ask that the gov not regulate personal behavior too much, you're a gun toting fascist or an idealistic libertarian....it's a bit fucked.

THIS OMG THIS!

Seriously, I'm getting tired of the politics debates I've encountered on various places. You're either painted as an Ayn Rand fanatic or Karl Marx worshipper. What a horrid thing for a self-identified liberal like myself to say "Yeah, I'm not real crazy about the guns, but I don't feel that banning a Bushmaster rifle is gonna make me any safer at work" Suddenly: HOLY SHIT I MUST BE SOME REDNECK WITH A WHOLE ARSENAL IN MY HOUSE AND A GUNRACK IN A PICKUP TRUCK WHO LOVES GLENN BECK! Really? Really now!?

I also love how I must be some entitlement whore who wants you all to pay for lazy do-nothings because I support nationalized health care and social safety nets. It's like they think I want to remove all semblance of market economics and fundamentally alter the world economy. I think too many people nowadays don;t do anything but seek out the more sensationalist entertainment driven versions of news, and what they get is loads and loads of slanted opinion-as-fact and confirmation bias.

[youtube]JgZQIC3x-tM[/youtube]

[welch]

I haven't seen any threats of violence or harassment in the pit. Do the sheep over there even check sources or just blindly believe whatever they're told??

I haven't seen anyone here advocate violence or harassment either...

I must confess that I did once threaten to steal Julian Francisco's action figures if I ever got the chance.

I called him a spic on "dissension", no sign of the little tit yet.

[ReneeHendricks]

Comical Jenni has a new post up. The usual stuff about why she's sick of the Skeptic movement because it's not what she wants it to be. Nice to see that her flounce remains as impermanent as ever, despite previous baboon wailings to the contrary. Anyways, this is the bit that stuck out for me:

I’ve grown reluctant to deal with the egos of skeptic celebrities and politics of skeptical organizations who, frankly, aren’t the great skeptics they think they are. But I’ll still keep writing and speaking about science and skepticism because, well, I find them important and interesting. I’ve realized I don’t need to be an official part of a group or a movement to do those things, nor am I personally responsible for spending my time and energy in improving a movement that is so stubbornly resisting improvement.

That's gotta be a veiled FU to Atheism Plus, hasn't it?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... -blogging/
http://www.freezepage.com/1359663287KZLZSFAMUN

Seriously. Are these people so fucking stupid that they don't realize that skepticism/atheism doesn't begin and end with the Internet? What a self-centered, fucked up world they live in.

[Michael J]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

[Submariner]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

Other than Richard Dawkins, who else is considered an "A" list atheist?

Sam Harris?

Who else?

[Remick]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

Welcome!

I am from FTB, and I have not yet told anyone why I left the place.

They drove me off for the most idiotic reason you could EVER imagine. It had nothing to do with feminism, nothing at all.

It was over...

capitalization and punctuation

Yes. I admitted that, sometimes, I do not care if someone attacks my intelligence because I made a spelling mistake, or did not properly punctuate.

I was immediately attacked by a fair number of forum regulars, and accused of being an 'arrogant asshole', amongst other things. Apparently, many people have reading and vision problems, and I am an arrogant, uncaring ass, for not catering to them.

Here is the rub though - I have always taken great pains to not only type coherently, but to avoid as many grammatical mistakes as possible, on the FTB forums. So, in other words, I had not *yet* done anything wrong on FTB. They were upset with me, and treating me as if I was some sort of rapist, because I admitted that in *some*, circumstances, I do not care if I make spelling mistakes. Now why is this? I live in a 100 year old wood house and I do not have central heating. Try typing when you can't feel your fingers. It's HARD. I am typing right now and having a lot of trouble, because it is so cold. If I am talking to people in a VIDEO GAME*, or to a friend on AIM/ICQ, I really can't be bothered to go to the extra effort of making sure everything is perfect. People in games don't care, either. As long as one is coherent, that is all that really matters. And people who try to look 'smart' by attacking their opponent's typos are just idiots, and should not be taken seriously.

So, after attacking me for the oh so rapey/ableist/misogynist sin of potential bad grammar, they got really angry with me when I committed the error of TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF. So I got called MORE NAMES and accused of MORE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

The entire thing was so fucking SURREAL that I decided to visit the 'pit, and see what others had to say about the complete disconnect from reality within FTB.






*video game typing is challenging in and of itself, considering the fact that one is often maneuvering their character around the world while trying to type coherently. perfect grammar is not always possible, and nor should it be expected, in such an environment.

More evidence of what we all know. If you are perceived as the "in group" you get a pass for a lot of things. If you are not, you are held to an entirely different standard.

I wish someone they couldn't just ignore would write a post comparing them with George W. Bush, since they all despise him. His famous "You're either with us, or your with the Misogynists!!!" speech would be pretty applicable.

It always reminds me of the "Just War" debate we'd have in History courses.

[Remick]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

Welcome!

I am from FTB, and I have not yet told anyone why I left the place.

They drove me off for the most idiotic reason you could EVER imagine. It had nothing to do with feminism, nothing at all.

It was over...

capitalization and punctuation

Yes. I admitted that, sometimes, I do not care if someone attacks my intelligence because I made a spelling mistake, or did not properly punctuate.

I was immediately attacked by a fair number of forum regulars, and accused of being an 'arrogant asshole', amongst other things. Apparently, many people have reading and vision problems, and I am an arrogant, uncaring ass, for not catering to them.

Here is the rub though - I have always taken great pains to not only type coherently, but to avoid as many grammatical mistakes as possible, on the FTB forums. So, in other words, I had not *yet* done anything wrong on FTB. They were upset with me, and treating me as if I was some sort of rapist, because I admitted that in *some*, circumstances, I do not care if I make spelling mistakes. Now why is this? I live in a 100 year old wood house and I do not have central heating. Try typing when you can't feel your fingers. It's HARD. I am typing right now and having a lot of trouble, because it is so cold. If I am talking to people in a VIDEO GAME*, or to a friend on AIM/ICQ, I really can't be bothered to go to the extra effort of making sure everything is perfect. People in games don't care, either. As long as one is coherent, that is all that really matters. And people who try to look 'smart' by attacking their opponent's typos are just idiots, and should not be taken seriously.

So, after attacking me for the oh so rapey/ableist/misogynist sin of potential bad grammar, they got really angry with me when I committed the error of TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF. So I got called MORE NAMES and accused of MORE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

The entire thing was so fucking SURREAL that I decided to visit the 'pit, and see what others had to say about the complete disconnect from reality within FTB.






*video game typing is challenging in and of itself, considering the fact that one is often maneuvering their character around the world while trying to type coherently. perfect grammar is not always possible, and nor should it be expected, in such an environment.

More evidence of what we all know. If you are perceived as the "in group" you get a pass for a lot of things. If you are not, you are held to an entirely different standard.

I wish someone they couldn't just ignore would write a post comparing them with George W. Bush, since they all despise him. His famous "You're either with us, or your with the Misogynists!!!" speech would be pretty applicable.

It always reminds me of the "Just War" debate we'd have in History courses.

[Altair]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

Other than Richard Dawkins, who else is considered an "A" list atheist?

Sam Harris?

Who else?

Shermer, perhaps?

[another lurker]

So after at least of week of attempting to get myself unbanned over at A+, without any response or even a full reason why I was permanently banned, I figured there is no reason to not "out" myself here. I had been lurking here for a while, but realized I couldn't see some of the (presumably) amusing images as a lurker so I signed up. Initially I thought it best not to use the same handle, less be permabanned places simply by being a member here, but I give zero fucks about that anymore. Anyhow, I posted over at A+ as kbonn, and once in a while posted over at FtB.

Welcome!

I am from FTB, and I have not yet told anyone why I left the place.

They drove me off for the most idiotic reason you could EVER imagine. It had nothing to do with feminism, nothing at all.

It was over...

capitalization and punctuation

Yes. I admitted that, sometimes, I do not care if someone attacks my intelligence because I made a spelling mistake, or did not properly punctuate.

I was immediately attacked by a fair number of forum regulars, and accused of being an 'arrogant asshole', amongst other things. Apparently, many people have reading and vision problems, and I am an arrogant, uncaring ass, for not catering to them.

Here is the rub though - I have always taken great pains to not only type coherently, but to avoid as many grammatical mistakes as possible, on the FTB forums. So, in other words, I had not *yet* done anything wrong on FTB. They were upset with me, and treating me as if I was some sort of rapist, because I admitted that in *some*, circumstances, I do not care if I make spelling mistakes. Now why is this? I live in a 100 year old wood house and I do not have central heating. Try typing when you can't feel your fingers. It's HARD. I am typing right now and having a lot of trouble, because it is so cold. If I am talking to people in a VIDEO GAME*, or to a friend on AIM/ICQ, I really can't be bothered to go to the extra effort of making sure everything is perfect. People in games don't care, either. As long as one is coherent, that is all that really matters. And people who try to look 'smart' by attacking their opponent's typos are just idiots, and should not be taken seriously.

So, after attacking me for the oh so rapey/ableist/misogynist sin of potential bad grammar, they got really angry with me when I committed the error of TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF. So I got called MORE NAMES and accused of MORE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

The entire thing was so fucking SURREAL that I decided to visit the 'pit, and see what others had to say about the complete disconnect from reality within FTB.






*video game typing is challenging in and of itself, considering the fact that one is often maneuvering their character around the world while trying to type coherently. perfect grammar is not always possible, and nor should it be expected, in such an environment.

More evidence of what we all know. If you are perceived as the "in group" you get a pass for a lot of things. If you are not, you are held to an entirely different standard.

I wish someone they couldn't just ignore would write a post comparing them with George W. Bush, since they all despise him. His famous "You're either with us, or your with the Misogynists!!!" speech would be pretty applicable.

It always reminds me of the "Just War" debate we'd have in History courses.

Yep. I would like to add that the person who originally attacked me does not always bother to properly capitalize and punctuate. Why are there different rules for s/h/it?

[Submariner]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

Other than Richard Dawkins, who else is considered an "A" list atheist?

Sam Harris?

Who else?

Shermer, perhaps?

I thought he identifies as "agnostic".

[Submariner]

Daniel Dennet ?

[Altair]

I thought he identifies as "agnostic".

Apparently he doesn't like labels but is willing to say he's an atheist, albeit reluctantly

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/w ... n-atheist/

I am an atheist. There, I said it. Are you happy, all you atheists out there who have remonstrated with me for adopting the agnostic moniker? If “atheist” means someone who does not believe in God, then an atheist is what I am.

But I detest all such labels. Call me what you like — humanist, secular humanist, agnostic, nonbeliever, nontheist, freethinker, heretic, or even bright. I prefer skeptic. Still, all such labels are just a form of cognitive economy, a shortcut into pigeonholing our fellow primates into tidy categories that supplant the deeper probing of what someone actually thinks and says.

[d4m10n]

Out of curiosity, what would you consider a suitable proposition for debate?

Putting that question to the whole board if anyone cares to answer.

Offhand, here are just a few possibilities for consideration…

Resolved: Strong sexual harassment policies are necessary for skeptical conferences to achieve their stated goals.

Resolved: Sexual harassment policies are unlikely to be abused by conference organisers to further their own ideological or personal ends.

Resolved: Just as atheism is the logical result of applying skepticism to theism, feminism is the logical result of properly applying skepticism to the patriarchy.

Resolved: Western culture is pervaded with subtle social mechanisms that perpetuate male dominance to this day.

Resolved: Western culture is a rape culture.

Resolved: Atheism Plus has demonstrated the morality and efficacy of combining social justice with skepticism.

:mrgreen:

[masakari2012]

It would not be surprising if there were 2 people here with submarine experience. Quite a few people here have military experience, at least compared to most places I've hung out at on the net. I can't remember who was in what branch of what military here, just that there are a lot of you.

Not me though, I don't take orders well, to put it mildly, although I did briefly consider it in my late teens. I wouldn't have lasted the first day. :)

When I was a teenager I was obsessed with WW2 history, especially the history of Germany's U-boats. I desperately wanted to join the navy and become a submariner. My heart just fell when I learned that subs were men only :(

In the end I am glad that I gave up on that dream, b/c the military, and especially life in subs, is not all that glamorous, to say the least :)

It's always glamorous at first, then loses its charm. It reminds me of when I went on my first cruise on the aircraft carrier USS Constellation CV-64. I was so excited the first couple of weeks to see F-14D Tomcats, F/A-18 Hornets, EA-6B Prowlers, E-2C Hawkeyes, and S-3 Vikings everywhere. I used to go up to vulture's row and watch jets launch and land. After a few weeks, it got boring. The next thing I knew, I was standing in a lunch line that extends from the 2nd deck to the hanger bay level, ducking under the nose of aircraft as the line progressed, and not even concerned anymore. Or sitting in the mess deck eating lunch, with a rack of Mark-82 bombs or AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles chilling next to me, waiting to be moved to the flight deck to be armed and loaded.

[Altair]

Ahem

<Singsong>
D4m10n is a slymie!
D4m10n is a slymie!
:lol:
</Singsong>

tweet.png

(19.41 KiB) Downloaded 287 times

[Tigzy]

Comical Jenni has a new post up. The usual stuff about why she's sick of the Skeptic movement because it's not what she wants it to be. Nice to see that her flounce remains as impermanent as ever, despite previous baboon wailings to the contrary. Anyways, this is the bit that stuck out for me:

I’ve grown reluctant to deal with the egos of skeptic celebrities and politics of skeptical organizations who, frankly, aren’t the great skeptics they think they are. But I’ll still keep writing and speaking about science and skepticism because, well, I find them important and interesting. I’ve realized I don’t need to be an official part of a group or a movement to do those things, nor am I personally responsible for spending my time and energy in improving a movement that is so stubbornly resisting improvement.

That's gotta be a veiled FU to Atheism Plus, hasn't it?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... -blogging/
http://www.freezepage.com/1359663287KZLZSFAMUN

It could also apply to the atheist movement in general, but I sooo hope it refers to A+.

Could well be. Look at this very recent tweet:

Jennifer McCreight Jennifer McCreight ‏@jennifurret

.@mdburnes Thank you so much. I still hope I can be a good role model, even without associating with official movements or groups

https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/ ... 3333102592

Given that there's also no mention of A+ in her FTB blogpost - despite being centred on the same subjects which inspired her to start* it all those months ago - I'd say it's pretty likely she's burning her bridges here.

Also - a role model for whom, exactly? Fuck me, she really is daddy's little princess, isn't she.

*If indeed she did start it - I vaguely recall Dolly Dillahunty letting slip once, in one of his dangerous driving videos, that there had been some talk about starting up a new 'grassroots' fematheist movement on the FTB backchannel before Comical's infamous post...

[nippletwister]

I wouldn't agree with Ophelia if she told me grass was green and bacon's quite tasty.

But I do find myself concurring with her on one thing - and it turns my spine to jelly to admit it - which is that I'm really fucking bored of the boy Vacula, and his creepy mustache.

Boy, get yourself a paper round and save up enough money to take yourself to whichever damn conference you want. Just stop boring us with your tales of Twitter oppression by the FC(n) and others.

wow. I'll never understand the hatred reserved for those who actually do things. Must be fun for you or something, whatever.

Hehe. Nippletwister: I don't "do things"? Excellent projection. Nobody light a cigarette right now: my straw arms and legs would go up like a flare.

No projection, Mr Psychologist, I don't actually know what you do, except your posts here. I'm sure it's great, and no sarcasm there, I just don't know.

I just don't get the attitude toward one that I know actually does secularist activism, has a history of such, and continues even when it's not really doing him any good personally. Maybe it seems to you like it's "all about him"....maybe it is....but I've seen him do good work, and I'm not looking for any heroes to worship. Yes, sometimes some of that work may well involve self-promotion, it can be a very necessary part of having your voice heard. Hell, I've never even criticized Watson for self-promotion, some of that goes with the territory. When I've criticized her on that score, it's been because it was ALL self-promotion, and drumming up non-troversies and playing martyr/victim, with no real benefit to the causes she claims to support, which is not the same thing by a light-year. Even when Justin plays into that game, it seems like he's really trying to keep things real and move forward, not muddle about in the muck. I'm curious if he can succeed.

I just don't see what Justin is doing as being a pity party or manipulative, I think he actually wants to fight against irrationality in public discourse and policy- at least, that's what I've seen. I was well aware of him before he was a slymepitting misogynist. A lot of the popular atheist bloggers liked him and supported his efforts before he dared disagree with the SJW's. In fact, I believe he just got another good mention on The Friendly Atheist a couple of days ago. While I think Hemant(Friendly Atheist) supports a lot of the social justice causes, he has managed to keep a reasonable head on his shoulders, and still recognizes good work even if it's not "FTB Approved". I like to encourage this as well.

I apologize if I offended, but some of us are actually interested in Vacula's work as part of the greater whole. Maybe he's not the most prolific activist in the world, but every bit helps and I try not to discourage ANYONE who wants to try. I am first and foremost a secularist and a skeptic in a country that needs both. Promoting atheism, having wars of identity politics, and religion-bashing are a distant second for me(although a very fun hobby). I speak only for myself here, I'm sure there are plenty of 'pitters who agree with you and wish he would shut up. I don't have the time or resources to do what he does...if he needs a few bucks to do it, I don't begrudge him asking though I can't afford to give right now.

Peace. No offense meant.

[Submariner]

It would not be surprising if there were 2 people here with submarine experience. Quite a few people here have military experience, at least compared to most places I've hung out at on the net. I can't remember who was in what branch of what military here, just that there are a lot of you.

Not me though, I don't take orders well, to put it mildly, although I did briefly consider it in my late teens. I wouldn't have lasted the first day. :)

When I was a teenager I was obsessed with WW2 history, especially the history of Germany's U-boats. I desperately wanted to join the navy and become a submariner. My heart just fell when I learned that subs were men only :(

In the end I am glad that I gave up on that dream, b/c the military, and especially life in subs, is not all that glamorous, to say the least :)

It's always glamorous at first, then loses its charm. It reminds me of when I went on my first cruise on the aircraft carrier USS Constellation CV-64. I was so excited the first couple of weeks to see F-14D Tomcats, F/A-18 Hornets, EA-6B Prowlers, E-2C Hawkeyes, and S-3 Vikings everywhere. I used to go up to vulture's row and watch jets launch and land. After a few weeks, it got boring. The next thing I knew, I was standing in a lunch line that extends from the 2nd deck to the hanger bay level, ducking under the nose of aircraft as the line progressed, and not even concerned anymore. Or sitting in the mess deck eating lunch, with a rack of Mark-82 bombs or AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles chilling next to me, waiting to be moved to the flight deck to be armed and loaded.

Or just being in the same room as a "device". :whistle:

[Michael J]

Comical Jenni has a new post up. The usual stuff about why she's sick of the Skeptic movement because it's not what she wants it to be. Nice to see that her flounce remains as impermanent as ever, despite previous baboon wailings to the contrary. Anyways, this is the bit that stuck out for me:

I’ve grown reluctant to deal with the egos of skeptic celebrities and politics of skeptical organizations who, frankly, aren’t the great skeptics they think they are. But I’ll still keep writing and speaking about science and skepticism because, well, I find them important and interesting. I’ve realized I don’t need to be an official part of a group or a movement to do those things, nor am I personally responsible for spending my time and energy in improving a movement that is so stubbornly resisting improvement.

That's gotta be a veiled FU to Atheism Plus, hasn't it?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... -blogging/
http://www.freezepage.com/1359663287KZLZSFAMUN

Seriously. Are these people so fucking stupid that they don't realize that skepticism/atheism doesn't begin and end with the Internet? What a self-centered, fucked up world they live in.

No, reading the whole thing I think she is still blaming us. Shorter Jen "The haters have so polluted everything so that the good guys have to spend all of their time fighting trolls and unimportant people like Dawkins, Harris, Shermer and Steve Novella. I went and visited some other blogs outside FTB and found that they are haters too".

I think her problem is that pre-bubble people like me would read her blog a couple of times and find it uninteresting and go away, so she wouldn't get much criticism. The same for OB and the rest.

[lost control]

So, my guy is out of surgery. He had his lymph nodes removed, the mass removed, and a portion of the back of his tongue removed. Oh, and they STILL won't know for another fucking week if the whole thing is malignant or not. WTF? The doctor said they'd check the mass right away to see if there was an issue. I'm not fucking happy right now.

All the best Renee to you and your guy + family.



I recall a study done on men who HAD DEFINITELY BEEN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED, as in, they had been victims and had this situation go before the courts, etc - but when surveyed only 16% of them or so actually reported they had ever been sexually assaulted in their life time. Despite the fact that 100% of them had. Fuck knows where I read it - I've been searching for it with no luck. I would assume that shit plays in a lot to any survey like that. Men just don't think it's sexual assault.

Well, I'm definitely no longer able to catch up, so hopefully all you fuckers forgive me my necro-replies.

But, again: all the best to your mate, Renee.


Hmph, well, I don't know which study you refer to, but to present yet another anecdote, I didn't report. I was legally too young to be out that late, so I opted to not get my naive mother into troubles. My mother still pisses me off, but she did her best to bring me into legal adulthood given her - albeit rather non-existant - abilities. She did what she managed to, and I'm aware that I'm rather lucky, as there are way worse childhoods to be had. But that's another story.

I was stupid enough to maneuver myself into a situation I had no easy way out of, was shocked while it was going on, didn't counter-act due to shock, cause I needed a way to get reasonably close to home, and so, I let it happen. Whatever. even though the incident occured, I'm fine.

It wasn't that bad. I wasn't physically harmed. It was just fucked up. Granted, it took me quite some time to get over it, and I think I am for some time now. Well the most time of my adult life actually? Or maybe not, I still had certain issues for quite some years, and it showed. I missed out on some great relationship opportunities due to that shit. Even though it was a rather minor incident.
I don't consider it rape myself (and legally it wasn't back then, I don't even care if the definition would now fit where I live), no seriously, at most I'd classify it as sexual abuse, or maybe even an evening where one party failed to assert their wishes properly, or was too young and stupid to say 'No'. And that idiot was me.

So, here's the thing why I get so annoyed about victim blaming: I was so stupid to create / get myself into a situation in which I was vulnerable. Totally my fault. Yet, not my fault that I was psychologically scarred due to the actions of someone else. Yep, there's a fucking difference. At least to my feeble mind.

But right now, or for the last year and a half - roughly - I'm more concerned about the rape attempt my gal escaped due to sheer luck (someone walked by as she already had gotten her pants ripped off and the asshole started to try penetration). I'm against any violence, as long as it's not in self defence or to help someone in distress *yada*, but I worry how I'd react if I ever run into the perp/fucker, given that my Mademoiselle points that cunt out to me. Fuck me, but we live in a small town, so there's a certain chance. I don't know what I'd do.
Sometimes I think that this incident contributed to another dent in my gal's robustness. Not that she was having an easy life anyway due to her medical history.

[another lurker]

nippletits wrote:

I apologize if I offended, but some of us are actually interested in Vacula's work as part of the greater whole. Maybe he's not the most prolific activist in the world, but every bit helps and I try not to discourage ANYONE who wants to try. I am first and foremost a secularist and a skeptic in a country that needs both. Promoting atheism, having wars of identity politics, and religion-bashing are a distant second for me(although a very fun hobby). I speak only for myself here, I'm sure there are plenty of 'pitters who agree with you and wish he would shut up. I don't have the time or resources to do what he does...if he needs a few bucks to do it, I don't begrudge him asking though I can't afford to give right now.

Peace. No offense meant.

I agree with you 100pct. This is why the FTB/A+ crowd annoy the shit out of me - they demand absolute perfection, and if you cannot deliver, they think you should fuck off and die.

And good God, you are one reasonable motherfucker. I try to be reasonable too, and hopefully I have succeeded. Can't be reasonable over at FTB though..:P

[Apples]

Comical Jenni has a new post up. The usual stuff about why she's sick of the Skeptic movement because it's not what she wants it to be. Nice to see that her flounce remains as impermanent as ever, despite previous baboon wailings to the contrary.

Micro-talent meta-blogger meta-meta-blogs about how sick she is of all the meta-blogging.

The title says it all: "My current feelings on the skeptical movement and blogging." Important update: New fee-fees same as the old fee-fees.

And I didn’t realize how obnoxious this meta-blogging was until I took a break from blogging and spent some time as just a blog reader. All of the blogs I had once loved now hardly ever produce unique material about atheism or skepticism because they’re too busy reacting to trolls or debating some “big name skeptic” (who is really just some shmuck* only known to a small group of people whose opinions have little effect on the world at large). Even the rare unique posts are frequently filled with snide offhand remarks about people they don’t like or vague comments alluding to past drama. And you know, if that’s what they want to do, that’s fine. One of my main pet peeves as a blogger is when people tell you what you should be writing about, when it’s a blogger’s prerogative to write about whatever they find interesting.

*I count myself in the category of “random shmuck that other people care way too much about.” I wish my haters would spend less time obsessing over what’s effectively an open access creative writing journal for a random grad student ...

Dawkins and Shermer are little-known irrelevant "shmucks" -- just like you? Let me think about that for a minute ..... um, No.

Also, nice snark about how all those other blogs suck (Ophelia, Zvan, and PZ are the obvious offenders) and are snide, boring, drama-recycling circle-jerks, followed by the passive-aggressive, "they should write about whatever they find interesting - it's their prerogative."

Way to go, Jen - a unique combination of shit-where-you-eat obliviousness and self-deprecating narcissism.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... -blogging/

[Lsuoma]

Notice. Eucliwood is temporarily banned completely while I look into something happening external to the Pit.

Thanks

Lsuoma.

[cunt]

Hah! There's got to be a tipping point pretty soon where the slymepit has more A+ members than A+ does.

Message to the moderators there. Message to FTB.

[youtube]3ayloXq_w9Y[/youtube]

[KarlVonMox]

In the meantime, Greg Laden hosts a blog post by renowned crank Marc Verhaegen about the utterly discredited "Aquatic Ape Theory".
It is the watered down (pun intended) version thereof - not the batshit original by Ellaine Morgan - but still nothing more than a set of ridiculous speculations, woven together by unevidenced narrative.
Even Peezus has ridiculed it, in the past. So, the ensuing reactions may be fun to watch.

These pathetic levels of scholarship shouldn't surprise, however, after Laden's testosterone comment. He is a pseudoscientist, so it is only natural for him to be surrounded by other.



For those unfamiliar with it, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis

And the wonderful critique site by my friend Jim Moore:
http://www.aquaticape.org/

The post @ Laden's can be found here:
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/ ... pe-theory/

I dont know, I've found some pretty conclusive evidence of this theory:

[youtube][/youtube]

[KarlVonMox]

[youtube]v=a9-zz1t_9tE[/youtube]

[KarlVonMox]

[youtube]EKyirtVHsK0[/youtube]

[Scented Nectar]

Are subs still men only?

Well, for the most part they're the ones who want to be walked on with stiletto heels and get golden showers.

I guess I walked into that one, but not wearing heels or peeing though! :D

[Scented Nectar]

Notice. Eucliwood is temporarily banned completely while I look into something happening external to the Pit.

Thanks

Lsuoma.

My curiosity level is on Very High.

[Lsuoma]

Ahem

<Singsong>
D4m10n is a slymie!
D4m10n is a slymie!
:lol:
</Singsong>

tweet.png

Talking of Slymies (Ooh! CAPITALIZATION privilege!), anyone here apart from me love the Ruby, Galactic Gumshoe stories from ZBS?

[KarlVonMox]

[youtube]a9-zz1t_9tE[/youtube]

There we go, fourth times the charm. And you ALL get to tolerate my ineptness at all this crap as a consequence of not having an edit button. Cheers! :hankey:

[Edina Monsoon]

Jennifer McCreight Jennifer McCreight ‏@jennifurret

.@mdburnes Thank you so much. I still hope I can be a good role model, even without associating with official movements or groups

https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/ ... 3333102592

Given that there's also no mention of A+ in her FTB blogpost - despite being centred on the same subjects which inspired her to start* it all those months ago - I'd say it's pretty likely she's burning her bridges here.

Also - a role model for whom, exactly? Fuck me, she really is daddy's little princess, isn't she.

But eeeeeeeeeeverybody's disappointed her. Skeptics, atheists, feminists, liberals, just everybody. Being part of a movement didn't make her a STAR (at least, not to her satisfaction) so maybe striking out alone will?

*If indeed she did start it - I vaguely recall Dolly Dillahunty letting slip once, in one of his dangerous driving videos, that there had been some talk about starting up a new 'grassroots' fematheist movement on the FTB backchannel before Comical's infamous post...

In his first post on AtheismPlus, Richard Carrier makes it clear that it was his idea and McCreight scooped him.

I was already mulling a way to do this back in June

Then I just got overwhelmed with work and kept putting it off on my calendar

It especially bugged me because I couldn’t get to it for lack of available time

Then Jen McCreight said it for me, more eloquently and clearly than I could have.

(underline mine)

And then a little passive-aggressive slam, his offer to provide the "intellectual artillery." *snort*

[Lsuoma]

Notice: Eucliwood is now permanently banned due to s/h/it almost certainly being the same person as doing what looks like some really unpleasant, stupid and dangerous shit on another online medium. I want s/h/it to have nothing to do with the Pit whatsoever.

[somedumbguy]

FWIW, Just to make it official, I do not need Skepticism or Atheism to support my belief that slavery is bad. I am sorry to learn that PZ and Jen McCreight do need that crutch.

[Mr Danksworth]

Notice: Eucliwood is now permanently banned due to s/h/it almost certainly being the same person as doing what looks like some really unpleasant, stupid and dangerous shit on another online medium. I want s/h/it to have nothing to do with the Pit whatsoever.

Good riddance! It's about time. Any details you can share?

[LMU]

Notice. Eucliwood is temporarily banned completely while I look into something happening external to the Pit.

Thanks

Lsuoma.

Something related or potentially related to Eucliwood or is it just that you will be busy and unavailable to approve her messages?

[nippletwister]

I didn't think you were putting him down, I have never watched Shawshank Redemtion (sounds like one of those boring movies everyone rants about, like Citizen Kane), I was just following up on what you said:)

Your loss, entirely. Frank Darabont is probably the best director for all King-related adaptations.

And I'm not even a big fan of King anymore.

Fuck yeah. I like King, but the best movies IMO have been the non-horror. Stand By Me, Shawshank(possibly best big studio movie ever), and even the relatively weak Apt Pupil was good.

[Guest]

http://i.imgur.com/Ra1tr5i.jpg

Guard your balls, gentlemen.

Dude, what part of don't engage did you not get? These people have a platform, and you have an account that's been banned. Stay out of their way until you have an aged account.

[LMU]

Notice: Eucliwood is now permanently banned due to s/h/it almost certainly being the same person as doing what looks like some really unpleasant, stupid and dangerous shit on another online medium. I want s/h/it to have nothing to do with the Pit whatsoever.

Ah that answers my question (should have refreshed before posting it, sorry). So it goes.

[incognito]

FWIW, Just to make it official, I do not need Skepticism or Atheism to support my belief that slavery is bad. I am sorry to learn that PZ and Jen McCreight do need that crutch.

I was about to post something similar. I'm not going to be all "Fuck science and technology and skepticism if it can't be demonstrated as a scientific fact that genocide, slavery, puppy torture, and snuff flicks are wrong!"

I might not like the fact that morality at least has some subjective elements, but I'm not going to dismiss everything objective if I can't logically work my way out of that conclusion.

The whole idea of being like "Fuck skepticism if it can't prove that slavery is wrong" seems like moral cowardice to me. The moral argument doesn't really need science. Some woos accuse skeptics of science-worship, and I can't help but conclude that such description isn't entirely off base when I hear opinions like those.

[Oneiros666]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

Other than Richard Dawkins, who else is considered an "A" list atheist?

Sam Harris?

Who else?

The most important one to come out against radical feminism (i.e. FfTB and A+theism) is, in my humble opinion, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She has felt what true misogyny is and had to flee from the Netherlands in order to be murdered. Not by some 'ev0l MRA' dude. No. By muslims.

Other notable names are:

Penn Jillette
S.E. Cupp (I fucking hate her guts, but she is national celebrity and an atheist)
Bill Maher

They are all noted as "Five atheists who ruin it for everyone else" by the FfTB- Quran: Salon.

Hey, are you SubMor from A+ ? If so, go suck a bag of dicks.

[Metalogic42]

Dude, what part of don't engage did you not get? These people have a platform, and you have an account that's been banned. Stay out of their way until you have an aged account.

Who the fuck are you?

[Dick Strawkins]

It seems you and Cromwell are making roughly same argument

How dare you!

Debating in a neutral forum forces both parties to do a number of things that online forums generally do not:

- Specify propositions upon which they disagree
- Marshal evidence and arguments on point
- Listen attentively and rebut their opponent

In a properly structured and reasonably moderated debate, there is no banning or dog-piling dissenting views, no retreating into name-calling and invective, no excuses for failing to address your opponent's arguments.

Maybe Justin isn't the right guy to go on the show, but someone definitely should. The entryist insurgency of ‘social justice’ callout-culture is wholly incompatible with true skepticism and freethought, and must be exposed for what it is to those who are not already lurking here.

He seems to want to avoid a debate because he hates us.
I want to avoid it because I don't think we will ever get the sort of structured neutral system in place that we would need for such a debate to be worthwhile.
Justin is absolutely the wrong person to take on such a debate.
If I were them I would be delighted to have Justin as an opponent - that way the entire debate could centre on the question of how terrible it is to doxx skepchicks and whatever shit I could dig up about 'A Voice For Men.'

[Gumby]

I have to agree with cunt and Tigzy here.
Justin Vacula seems like a nice guy and his efforts regarding the promotion of atheism are worthy of a lot of praise.
But...
Frankly, his interaction with the FTB bunch regarding feminism have been naive in the extreme. You know they are never going to let him live down the doxxing of Surly Amy (an action that inspired an almost unanimous reaction of "What the fuck are you doing Justin?" from the slymepit.)
We are dealing with professional victims here. You don't serve up opportunities like that, that's exactly what they live for.
I realize that the information he posted wasn't hard to find but that's besides the point - it gave them just the excuse they needed to portray him as a harrasser.
Justin, I wish you well in your various activities, but you should realize that, politically you are not the best person to represent "our" side.
And thats even ignoring the fact that it's pointless to try to debate with these dishonest leeches in the first place. Expose their greedy scheming to the world, don't legitimize it by sitting at their feet.

+1

[Lsuoma]

Notice: Eucliwood is now permanently banned due to s/h/it almost certainly being the same person as doing what looks like some really unpleasant, stupid and dangerous shit on another online medium. I want s/h/it to have nothing to do with the Pit whatsoever.

Good riddance! It's about time. Any details you can share?

Basically I discovered that someone with a very similar ID and very similar email address - way, WAY, WAY too similar for me to attribute it to coincidence - is engaging in stuff similar to but worse than the request for pictures of dicks that want nothing to do with s/h/it anymore. This is actually even more egregious, and could possibly result in law enforcement becoming involved, depending on what the other forum decides to do.

I still don't think s/h/it is a 12-year-old girl: I think an adult male troll, and capable of creating legal liability if engaged with. I really don't want this discussed further on the Pit either in public or PMs, please.

[Lsuoma]

Yarg! My editing of the last post fucked up the grammar in the middle, but the sentiment is clear.

[Lsuoma]

And by "editing" I mean "editing while composing," not post hoc editing.

[Submariner]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

Other than Richard Dawkins, who else is considered an "A" list atheist?

Sam Harris?

Who else?

The most important one to come out against radical feminism (i.e. FfTB and A+theism) is, in my humble opinion, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She has felt what true misogyny is and had to flee from the Netherlands in order to be murdered. Not by some 'ev0l MRA' dude. No. By muslims.

Other notable names are:

Penn Jillette
S.E. Cupp (I fucking hate her guts, but she is national celebrity and an atheist)
Bill Maher

They are all noted as "Five atheists who ruin it for everyone else" by the FfTB- Quran: Salon.

Hey, are you SubMor from A+ ? If so, go suck a bag of dicks.

I am absolutely NOT SubMor from A+. I post at FTB as Submariner. I've never posted in A+theism fora.

[Guest]

Dude, what part of don't engage did you not get? These people have a platform, and you have an account that's been banned. Stay out of their way until you have an aged account.

Who the fuck are you?

Just your friendly neighbourhood lurker.

[Gumby]

Comical Jenni has a new post up. The usual stuff about why she's sick of the Skeptic movement because it's not what she wants it to be. Nice to see that her flounce remains as impermanent as ever, despite previous baboon wailings to the contrary. Anyways, this is the bit that stuck out for me:

I’ve grown reluctant to deal with the egos of skeptic celebrities and politics of skeptical organizations who, frankly, aren’t the great skeptics they think they are. But I’ll still keep writing and speaking about science and skepticism because, well, I find them important and interesting. I’ve realized I don’t need to be an official part of a group or a movement to do those things, nor am I personally responsible for spending my time and energy in improving a movement that is so stubbornly resisting improvement.

That's gotta be a veiled FU to Atheism Plus, hasn't it?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... -blogging/
http://www.freezepage.com/1359663287KZLZSFAMUN

I think she was referring to the general A/S movement, but I could be wrong.

But what effort has she ever expended, anyway? Even with A+, her supposed glorious brainchild and future of atheism, Jen McCreight never expended one calorie's worth of effort improving that "movement". She just thought she could cop a squat in the middle of the road and watch her holy movement take wing and soooaaaaar!

"As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!"

[youtube]lf3mgmEdfwg[/youtube]

[Apples]

So… am I a misandrist then because it takes me a long time to be not-nervous around a man? Because typically within the first 6 months I won’t be in a room alone with him? Because typically within the first year I won’t be in a car alone with him?

How about when you learn I was stalked when I was 17? And basically stalked again when I was 19/20 by a guy who tried to break up my engagement and french kissed me without my permission? And then followed/chased by a man through downtown at 1 in the morning when I was 21?

Rowanvt, if you’re a misandrist for those reasons, I’ll join you in the corner. We’ll have tea. I won’t be alone in any room in any building with a man I don’t know. Won’t be in a car with one. Won’t be in any sort of enclosed space with one. Nope.

I was stalked when I was a *child*. I was 10. One night, I heard scratching on one of my bedroom windows, thought it was my cat. Nope, very large large man in the dirt, between bushes, trying to get into my room. Dude ran when I screamed, cops didn’t do anything. A week later, I thought I heard something suspicious during a windstorm at night. Next morning, went around the side of the house, there was our chaise lounge outside my other bedroom window. Someone had been sleeping there. And so forth. I’m willing to bet my stalker just looooooved children.

Well. Those are shitty stories. I have a lot of sympathy for people who have been traumatized and are therefore inordinately fearful, whether it be of strange men, loud noises, or non-human animal penises. We even have a term for it - PTSD. But you know what? We don't set speed limits based on the paranoia of people who have been in traumatic car accidents. We 'merkins don't ban fireworks on the 4th of July because combat veterans might be triggered by the sound of explosions.

I now understand Caine's views on gender issues a little better. And unfortunately it's pretty obvious that her reaction to her life experiences disqualifies her from being a representative voice on what counts as sexism or harassment in the skeptical community. Sad, but true. The person who got bitten by a dog and therefore has an extreme fear and hatred of dogs doesn't get the job of making and enforcing the leash laws while insisting that everyone else share that fear and hatred.

Also - "If you’re a misandrist for those reasons, I’ll join you in the corner. We’ll have tea." So ... if a guy was smacked around by his stepmother or falsely accused of rape it's totally cool for him to be a misogynist and to hate and fear women for the rest of his life and share stories with the bros about it on MRA sites, amiright?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... erdome-17/

[nippletwister]

Can I have a clue about all the shit thrown at Justin Vacula here? Is it because most of his posts are about him/his tweets/his blog/his achievements? Because others, me included, do it a lot in these parts, and it helps follow what's going on.

Try all of them, is there even a single Justin Vacula post on this forum that isn't about Justin Vacula?

Here's the clue though: I don't like people nominating themselves to speak on behalf of any entire "side" in any argument. If this stupid debate ever actually takes place its going to need massive disclaimers that, actually, Justin Vacula speaks only for himself. His opinions may not be the opinions of other people, he has no power over other people, he's a totally self-appointed "representative".

Also who the fuck is Lee Moore and why is this busybody taking it on himself to heal up the "DEEEEP RIFTS"?

Though I support Justin's work in and out of the 'Pit, I am fully on board with this. NOBODY here represents me. Even if I agree with somebody 100% about everything, I still don't like being "represented", because then anything they ever say or do is held as "representative" by the ignorant or dishonest, and we ALL know that most of FTB, skepchick, or douchebags like Adam Lee will use that as far as they can, dishonest or no, yet they will never let themselves be so painted, even when it's people like PZ that they are happy to have represent them to some degree most of the time.

I still support the idea, but it must be done with fair disclaimers. We all speak for ourselves.

[Remick]

Rifts?, Debates? Why are we are buying into their narrative. Although they are relatively large in Forum terms they are a small bubble in terms of the entire movement. Almost all of the A lister Atheists have come out against them (or are silent). They are a bubble.

Other than Richard Dawkins, who else is considered an "A" list atheist?

Sam Harris?

Who else?

The most important one to come out against radical feminism (i.e. FfTB and A+theism) is, in my humble opinion, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She has felt what true misogyny is and had to flee from the Netherlands in order to be murdered. Not by some 'ev0l MRA' dude. No. By muslims.

Other notable names are:

Penn Jillette
S.E. Cupp (I fucking hate her guts, but she is national celebrity and an atheist)
Bill Maher

They are all noted as "Five atheists who ruin it for everyone else" by the FfTB- Quran: Salon.

Hey, are you SubMor from A+ ? If so, go suck a bag of dicks.

S.E. Cupp is either an elaborate troll, or a complete moron. "Oh yes, I am an atheist, I just think that we NEED religion to help keep the moral fabric of our society together. Oh, and Coastal elites are ruining this country, nevermind that I am one."