Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

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rayshul
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5161

Post by rayshul »

I'm not in the US - which may explain my views on expectations of government. The reason I'll never live in the US is because I don't think it's up to standard in terms of what I would expect of services from a first world country - I don't believe what I'd pay for in taxes would get me what I felt entitled to. My experiences being in the US have involved majorrrr culture shock.
incognito wrote:
rayshul wrote:In fact if SJW addressed class issues I would be on board - such as things like access to legal services and mental health support.
IMO, that sort of stuff is "SJ 101" (in A+-speak.)
There's also stuff like this:

http://www.cvent.com/events/9th-nationa ... 124b5.aspx
I'm aware there are legitimate "social justice" pursuits/activists which seem to be branded as social justice and not, say, dealing with human rights, although I find it very rare for these people to consider themselves social justice activists. I do attend many conferences and presentations that relate to issues of accessibility of services and the empowerment of citizens and the phrase to my memory has never been brought up. I am definitely supportive of any activity where a measurable, practical and economically viable solution is provided to ensure or promote the accessibility of basic services.

What I think is happening here is that the SJW see something that they consider to be a promotion of their particular goals, and it becomes adopted into the SJW "look what good we're acheiving" story, even though this is something that has been promoted out of a completely different area or has come about as a result of research and economic pressure. In much the same way I think a feminist would claim having childcare via Dawkins as a "win" for feminism while it's more a practical way of ensuring people can attend - an extension of basic accessibility issues conference organisers have to deal with.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]your blog[/spoiler]

#5162

Post by Michael K Gray »

Dick Strawkins wrote:I think what is needed is another forum.
Great!
Knock yourself out!
Let us know when you have it up & running.

jimthepleb
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5163

Post by jimthepleb »

BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.

decius
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5164

Post by decius »

NoelPlum has a new post out. Has anyone mentioned this already?

http://noelplum99.blogspot.de/2013/02/r ... l?spref=tw

nippletwister
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5165

Post by nippletwister »

d4m10n wrote:
welch wrote:Other than ego points, why does anyone care if a "name" likes your site or not?
No idea. I wasn't arguing that we need big names.

For the record, I love most of your input here, Damion. You're a smart and well-meaning guy. But I don't think anything here needs to change, and I don't think changing anything would actually change any of the dynamics in the larger community. If anything, places like this need to exist for those who can't handle all the hand-wringing and policing, who need a connection to the "real world" in their secular/skeptic activism. I think that the existence of such humor and a truly free place for it is vastly more important than just about any other part of the debate.

a couple of unoriginal thoughts courtesy of H.L. Mencken:

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

...and as for those hobgoblins of the SJW's and my personal response to their constant and intentional mis-uses of logic and skepticism to foster fear and hatred:

Of a piece with the absurd pedagogical demand for so-called constructive criticism is the doctrine that an iconoclast is a hollow and evil fellow unless he can prove his case. Why, indeed, should he prove it? Is he judge, jury, prosecuting officer, hangman? He proves enough, indeed, when he proves by his blasphemy that this or that idol is defectively convincing—that at least one visitor to the shrine is left full of doubts. The fact is enormously significant; it indicates that instinct has somehow risen superior to the shallowness of logic, the refuge of fools. The pedant and the priest have always been the most expert of logicians—and the most diligent disseminators of nonsense and worse. The liberation of the human mind has never been furthered by such learned dunderheads; it has been furthered by gay fellows who heaved dead cats into sanctuaries and then went roistering down the highways of the world, proving to all men that doubt, after all, was safe—that the god in the sanctuary was finite in his power, and hence a fraud. One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent.


...and for any FTB/Skepchick/SJW assholes lurking and looking for a quote-mining opportunity, yes, that last quote is clearly indicative of my desire to beat all feminists with dead cats.

fascination
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5166

Post by fascination »

decius wrote:
fascination wrote:
I'm arriving late to this so I apologize if you've already mentioned this but do you want to start a new forum/thread or are you trying to influence the Pit's behavior?
I'm jaqing off, right now.

A couple of nights ago, I was discussing with some serious philos, who have been strenuously opposing FtB and A+ and yet wouldn't touch the Pit with a bargepole. They condemned the crass imagery, mostly.
I did my best to defend the place, then I came back and reported on this sentiment. Some think it's a convo worth having, some disagree.
I think it's a conversation worth having. I agree with a lot of what you say. I just don't think I can influence anyone else here but myself.

another lurker
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5167

Post by another lurker »

jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
I believe it started with Steffie, then picked up steam thanks to SDG's comments.

decius
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5168

Post by decius »

jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
Yes, he is right, it started there. No need to go on forever, though. All points have been made, multiple times. So far, I haven't made up my mind circa the opportunity of branching a separate forum. I'll give it some thought in private.
Cheers.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5169

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I like toast.

ReneeHendricks
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5170

Post by ReneeHendricks »

decius wrote:NoelPlum has a new post out. Has anyone mentioned this already?

http://noelplum99.blogspot.de/2013/02/r ... l?spref=tw
Just read that. Brilliantly done. Noel manages to put out there exactly what's been in my brain for *weeks*.

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5171

Post by jimthepleb »

decius wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
Yes, he is right, it started there. No need to go on forever, though. All points have been made, multiple times. So far, I haven't made up my mind circa the opportunity of branching a separate forum. I'll give it some thought in private.
Cheers.
Yeah and im t-bagging you too dude:-p

ERV
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5172

Post by ERV »

I dunno why we are talking about Russell Blackfords looks right now, but I cant pass up the opportunity to point this out:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... vgrw-i5IpI
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... S3qt4KlpAg

My brain connected Blackford to Flash Gordon for some reason, and now I cant see one without seeing the other.

:|

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5173

Post by jimthepleb »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I like toast.
I see what you're doing there phil, you think it's smart but trying to smuggle bread in under the 'toast' cover ain't gunna cut it here.

jimthepleb
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5174

Post by jimthepleb »

ERV wrote:I dunno why we are talking about Russell Blackfords looks right now, but I cant pass up the opportunity to point this out:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... vgrw-i5IpI
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... S3qt4KlpAg

My brain connected Blackford to Flash Gordon for some reason, and now I cant see one without seeing the other.

:|
Now we know your secret abbie..you will never live it down....
anyway
fapfapfapfapfap

Apples
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Posts: 2406
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5175

Post by Apples »

jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
Well, you already know I agree with you. This is an outgrowth of the "let's mend the rifts" sentiment among SIN bloggers, leading to the Svan "terms" and "OMG sex tapes!" posts. SDG was a coincident burp in the process (afaik it hasn't even been mentioned by anyone outside the 'Pit and is unique in its history). BB is being aggressively clueless, which is, for my purposes, one of the worst offenses you can commit at the 'Pit (aside from being persistently boring, like decius). I guess that's what killfiles are for.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5176

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

ERV wrote:I dunno why we are talking about Russell Blackfords looks right now, but I cant pass up the opportunity to point this out:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... vgrw-i5IpI
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... S3qt4KlpAg

My brain connected Blackford to Flash Gordon for some reason, and now I cant see one without seeing the other.

:|
Objectifying much?

*runs fast*

Not fast enough. It's bed for me. Good night all!

Submariner
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5177

Post by Submariner »

After watching Mykeru's video a few thoughts occurred to me:

1. I hope he is prepared for the doxing and employer tattling that is sure to come.

2. If Vacula was removed from his post, how does Melody Hensley still have hers?

3. I can hardly wait to see the reaction from the FC(n).

jimthepleb
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5178

Post by jimthepleb »

decius wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
Yes, he is right, it started there. No need to go on forever, though. All points have been made, multiple times. So far, I haven't made up my mind circa the opportunity of branching a separate forum. I'll give it some thought in private.
Cheers.
How the fuck did it start there?
seriously I'm clearly missing something, it must be my non-philosophical mind (such as it is)

windy
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5179

Post by windy »

decius wrote:
windy wrote: In that case, the objective observer should also spot be able to spot blatant guilt-by-association tactics, so a few posters indulging in "crass imagery" should not lead to dismissal of any serious anti-FtB arguments. (If your "serious philos" disagree with this, I'd be interested in their counter-argument)

If you are arguing that these posts are counterproductive by pointing to real world effects, fine, but then the "be nice" strategy ought to be judged by the same standards, not how it 'should' work in some realm of disinterested Platonic observers.
I made that exact same point about guilt by association. Of course, it was agreed. Real-world effects of arguing by ad-homs and school-yard level insults? Well, Windy, I don't have to, because you're fat.
No, I'm ugly, welch is fat. Get it right FFS! But isn't the proper analogy more like:

me: *utter load of bullcrap*
Very Serious Person: Actually, that's not correct, because of *data* and *logical argument*
Decius: Oh snap, you just got told, fatty!
me: The hate! Look at the hate! That only shows that *utter load of bullcrap* is true!

OK, leading philosophers agree with me that "crass imagery" is no reason to dismiss any arguments. What's the exact problem then? Has anyone argued that only ad homs must be used by everyone? Do you see the Pit of consisting only of ad hom arguments? Have I posted nothing but ad homs and school-yard level insults here, for example? (If you can show that I have, I promise to better my ways!)

LMU
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Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:40 am

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5180

Post by LMU »

nippletwister wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
welch wrote:Other than ego points, why does anyone care if a "name" likes your site or not?
No idea. I wasn't arguing that we need big names.

For the record, I love most of your input here, Damion. You're a smart and well-meaning guy. But I don't think anything here needs to change, and I don't think changing anything would actually change any of the dynamics in the larger community. If anything, places like this need to exist for those who can't handle all the hand-wringing and policing, who need a connection to the "real world" in their secular/skeptic activism. I think that the existence of such humor and a truly free place for it is vastly more important than just about any other part of the debate.

a couple of unoriginal thoughts courtesy of H.L. Mencken:

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

...and as for those hobgoblins of the SJW's and my personal response to their constant and intentional mis-uses of logic and skepticism to foster fear and hatred:

Of a piece with the absurd pedagogical demand for so-called constructive criticism is the doctrine that an iconoclast is a hollow and evil fellow unless he can prove his case. Why, indeed, should he prove it? Is he judge, jury, prosecuting officer, hangman? He proves enough, indeed, when he proves by his blasphemy that this or that idol is defectively convincing—that at least one visitor to the shrine is left full of doubts. The fact is enormously significant; it indicates that instinct has somehow risen superior to the shallowness of logic, the refuge of fools. The pedant and the priest have always been the most expert of logicians—and the most diligent disseminators of nonsense and worse. The liberation of the human mind has never been furthered by such learned dunderheads; it has been furthered by gay fellows who heaved dead cats into sanctuaries and then went roistering down the highways of the world, proving to all men that doubt, after all, was safe—that the god in the sanctuary was finite in his power, and hence a fraud. One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent.


...and for any FTB/Skepchick/SJW assholes lurking and looking for a quote-mining opportunity, yes, that last quote is clearly indicative of my desire to beat all feminists with dead cats.
You're one of franc's sock puppets aren't you? That's why he hasn't been posting recently! :o

Michael K Gray
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my opinion[/spoiler]

#5181

Post by Michael K Gray »

incognito wrote:What objective? I'm still kind of new here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't snark for the sheer hedonistic joy of snarking part of this site's "purpose"? (And I don't mean that as a diss; I love snark!)
This site, and it's predecessor were established with the unstated objective of highlighting the hypocrisy of the media-whores who proclaimed to represent the skeptical "movement".
The lulz spontaneously arose from that as a side-benefit.

AbsurdWalls
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Posts: 863
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5182

Post by AbsurdWalls »

I'm just going to chip in my one thought on the "forum-split" idea:

If you want to go somewhere more genteel to talk about this stuff then head over to JREF. The attitude towards A+ etc. over there is identical to what it is over here (in no small part due to way FtB have behaved towards JREF). The only difference is that the photoshops are less explicit, and nobody is allowed to swear.

Don't bother trying to split the Slymepit or invent a new place to cover this stuff. There are already dozens of people on JREF doing what Notung etc. were after.

another lurker
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Posts: 4740
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5183

Post by another lurker »

jimthepleb wrote:
decius wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
Yes, he is right, it started there. No need to go on forever, though. All points have been made, multiple times. So far, I haven't made up my mind circa the opportunity of branching a separate forum. I'll give it some thought in private.
Cheers.
How the fuck did it start there?
seriously I'm clearly missing something, it must be my non-philosophical mind (such as it is)
Just to be clear, you are asking if it started with Steffie or with SDG, right? I have not been following your conversation with BB, so I don't know what your stance is.

incognito
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Posts: 124
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5184

Post by incognito »

rayshul wrote:I'm not in the US - which may explain my views on expectations of government. The reason I'll never live in the US is because I don't think it's up to standard in terms of what I would expect of services from a first world country - I don't believe what I'd pay for in taxes would get me what I felt entitled to. My experiences being in the US have involved majorrrr culture shock.
incognito wrote:
rayshul wrote:In fact if SJW addressed class issues I would be on board - such as things like access to legal services and mental health support.
IMO, that sort of stuff is "SJ 101" (in A+-speak.)
There's also stuff like this:

http://www.cvent.com/events/9th-nationa ... 124b5.aspx
I'm aware there are legitimate "social justice" pursuits/activists which seem to be branded as social justice and not, say, dealing with human rights, although I find it very rare for these people to consider themselves social justice activists. I do attend many conferences and presentations that relate to issues of accessibility of services and the empowerment of citizens and the phrase to my memory has never been brought up. I am definitely supportive of any activity where a measurable, practical and economically viable solution is provided to ensure or promote the accessibility of basic services.
I think this might be a US vs "rest of the developed world" issue. In the US, things like UHC and marriage equality and non-discrimiation legal basics are very much considered social justice issues.

Sometimes concepts are best articulated by the "bad guys":

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589832,00.html
On my radio program, I said if your church is promoting Jeremiah Wright-type "social or economic justice," you should run from it or at least get educated on what progressives mean by this.
Here's someone who took my advice: Barack Obama.
Rev. Wright's church teaches "economic parity" and claims that God is not pleased with "America's economic mal-distribution." Progressives are good at changing words — for instance:
• "Federal assistance" has replaced the word "welfare"
• "Welfare" replaced the word "handout"
• "Subsidy" has replaced the word "self-reliance"
Americans are a moral people; we care, we have big hearts. So if there's a problem — say, global warming — you've got to sell it to people: You don't want to hurt the planet, do you? How do you fix it? Ecological justice. What is ecological justice? Cap-and-trade: The United States — a country with a lot of wealth — will go to a country with no wealth... and we'll buy their air. Wow, that sounds like socialism or the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.
Health care: Don't you just want to help people without health care? Yes, I do — I don't want to see anyone hurt. I want to help. Well, they can't afford it — we need economic justice to fix it. Now wait, that sounds like socialism or the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.
Education: Who doesn't want to help people get an education? Some people didn't have an opportunity to get an education. It's just about social justice and balancing the scales. No, it actually sounds like socialism which is the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.
I disagree with him on universal health care and education being "Marxism", but other than that, he's right - those sorts of things are what social justice activists in the US are promoting.

AbsurdWalls
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5185

Post by AbsurdWalls »

Submariner wrote:After watching Mykeru's video a few thoughts occurred to me:

1. I hope he is prepared for the doxing and employer tattling that is sure to come.

2. If Vacula was removed from his post, how does Melody Hensley still have hers?

3. I can hardly wait to see the reaction from the FC(n).
I was 90% sure that Mykeru's video was going to end with him revealing:
1) His full name.
2) His place of work.
3) His having had a meeting with his bosses to inform them that he is being harassed by online bullies.

1 & 2 are already in the hands of the people most worth keeping it from anyway.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]laziness[/spoiler]

#5186

Post by Michael K Gray »

Submariner wrote:What's wrong with having the highbrow, academic style arena right here within the pit? A secondary thread (or group of threads) with edit features that users and guests can hash out ideas free from sophomoric jokes and personal attacks.
Are you going to pay for the extra effort required to change the forum rules for a few threads, and police them 24/7 for "sophomoric jokes & personal attacks"? We saw how well that experiment went with A+!!!

If not, that is what is wrong with your selfish notion.
And not just the only thing that is wrong with it.

Guest

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5187

Post by Guest »

decius wrote:
fascination wrote:
I'm arriving late to this so I apologize if you've already mentioned this but do you want to start a new forum/thread or are you trying to influence the Pit's behavior?
I'm jaqing off, right now.

A couple of nights ago, I was discussing with some serious philos, who have been strenuously opposing FtB and A+ and yet wouldn't touch the Pit with a bargepole. They condemned the crass imagery, mostly.
I did my best to defend the place, then I came back and reported on this sentiment. Some think it's a convo worth having, some disagree.
Maybe it's just watching you guys and JREF, and the occasional eye on Skepticinc, I have no idea why this is a topic of discussion here. This is the pit, you guys do an excellent job of not only highlighting the shit that FTB and the A+ crew pull, you do it in a way that's both crass, humourous and occasionally shocking. These aren't bad things. There are other sites that cover off the well meaning critique and hand wringing, why water it down?

Submariner
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]laziness[/spoiler]

#5188

Post by Submariner »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Submariner wrote:What's wrong with having the highbrow, academic style arena right here within the pit? A secondary thread (or group of threads) with edit features that users and guests can hash out ideas free from sophomoric jokes and personal attacks.
Are you going to pay for the extra effort required to change the forum rules for a few threads, and police them 24/7 for "sophomoric jokes & personal attacks"? We saw how well that experiment went with A+!!!

If not, that is what is wrong with your selfish notion.
And not just the only thing that is wrong with it.

Fuck you. I don't even want the damned thing. I was trying to shut up the fucking delicate flowers by solving their fucking problem.

Piss off.

Angry_Drunk
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5189

Post by Angry_Drunk »

Guest wrote:
decius wrote:
fascination wrote:
I'm arriving late to this so I apologize if you've already mentioned this but do you want to start a new forum/thread or are you trying to influence the Pit's behavior?
I'm jaqing off, right now.

A couple of nights ago, I was discussing with some serious philos, who have been strenuously opposing FtB and A+ and yet wouldn't touch the Pit with a bargepole. They condemned the crass imagery, mostly.
I did my best to defend the place, then I came back and reported on this sentiment. Some think it's a convo worth having, some disagree.
Maybe it's just watching you guys and JREF, and the occasional eye on Skepticinc, I have no idea why this is a topic of discussion here. This is the pit, you guys do an excellent job of not only highlighting the shit that FTB and the A+ crew pull, you do it in a way that's both crass, humourous and occasionally shocking. These aren't bad things. There are other sites that cover off the well meaning critique and hand wringing, why water it down?
It’s an issue because there are a select handful of prigs here who just take the vaypahs at crass and insulting language. Unfortunately, instead of ignoring it and moving on, they insist on policing others based on the pretense that somehow said horrid language is the sole fucking thing keeping Peezus and the Gang from seeing the error of their ways.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5190

Post by Michael K Gray »

Jack wrote:Some people don't have the time for contributing to more than one forum.
Fuck me with a fish-fork!
Is there such a thing as a 0th-World problem?

jimthepleb
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5191

Post by jimthepleb »

another lurker wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:
decius wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:BTW if i'm wrong on the brain box thing...ie that SDG started this (exceptionally fucking tedious) tone trolling shit that's going, on as opposed to the Svan post please say so.
Yes, he is right, it started there. No need to go on forever, though. All points have been made, multiple times. So far, I haven't made up my mind circa the opportunity of branching a separate forum. I'll give it some thought in private.
Cheers.
How the fuck did it start there?
seriously I'm clearly missing something, it must be my non-philosophical mind (such as it is)
Just to be clear, you are asking if it started with Steffie or with SDG, right? I have not been following your conversation with BB, so I don't know what your stance is.
yup, that's my question. and i'll not try to bias ur answer by telling you my position...i'm weird like that.

another lurker
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5192

Post by another lurker »

jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.

jimthepleb
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5193

Post by jimthepleb »

Guest wrote:
decius wrote:
fascination wrote:
I'm arriving late to this so I apologize if you've already mentioned this but do you want to start a new forum/thread or are you trying to influence the Pit's behavior?
I'm jaqing off, right now.

A couple of nights ago, I was discussing with some serious philos, who have been strenuously opposing FtB and A+ and yet wouldn't touch the Pit with a bargepole. They condemned the crass imagery, mostly.
I did my best to defend the place, then I came back and reported on this sentiment. Some think it's a convo worth having, some disagree.
Maybe it's just watching you guys and JREF, and the occasional eye on Skepticinc, I have no idea why this is a topic of discussion here. This is the pit, you guys do an excellent job of not only highlighting the shit that FTB and the A+ crew pull, you do it in a way that's both crass, humourous and occasionally shocking. These aren't bad things. There are other sites that cover off the well meaning critique and hand wringing, why water it down?
OI don't come here with your well meaning sycophantic self interested nonsense actually explaining how things really are to the intellectually impoverished masses! Some of us might sctually see value in the sheer silliness of the pit's work and that would never do! :naughty:

another lurker
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5194

Post by another lurker »

another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
Might have spoke too soon.

Reviewing!

Mykeru
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5195

Post by Mykeru »

d4m10n wrote:
Metalogic42 wrote:
Mykeru wrote:This should be fun:

[youtube]b_7SRa_xQNQ[/youtube]
48 minutes, jeez. I'll get back to you on that one. :P
Epic takedown is epic. Plus dog stories and the origins of the cow skull!
Thank you kindly everyone who said something nice about me and my return to videoing.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L2ZvIeYiTmE/T ... -field.jpg

I see some more discussion on tactics. I really do empathize with the "high road" people and the people who realize this is a dogfight.

Whatever approach taken, I think Welch and Franc and others would agree that the best approach is just hit these bastards head on. The thing a bully most fears is when you call their bluff.

I really don't mind being a lightening rod. I think it's worth it if one more person just loses all fear of their bullying bullshit or, even better, one of these bullies thinks twice before resorting to the lies and slander because they know if they bluff, it will be called.

nippletwister
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5196

Post by nippletwister »

d4m10n wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
d4m10n wrote:Sacha – Are you serious? You just wrote a lengthy missive telling me not to engage in a certain behaviour, namely, telling others not to engage in certain behaviour. You don't see how self-refuting that is?
Quick question: how do we resolve such a situation?
How about this: The Pit stays just as it is, with the very minimal rules put in place by Lsuoma. Meanwhile, the Pitizens continue to argue freely among themselves about which sorts of methods are most effective for combating the SJW attempts to hijack freethought, just as they always do. I'll continue to argue that substantive satire is a far sharper tool than calling people fat and ugly, and everyone is welcome to call me the resident tone-troll for doing so.

Nobody is stopping you from being as witty and substantive as you like. Many of us enjoy your posts, and seriously hope you will continue. Hell, I always read your blog when I visit SIN, and what you do is worthwhile. But arguing for everyone to adopt your standards is pointless. It won't happen, and even if we all did, it wouldn't change anything, including the lies told about us by the dishonest, or the standard victimization narratives of SJW's, and it would eliminate a source of fun and inspiration for many.

I really do think you underestimate the power of humor, even ugly humor, in the face of dishonesty and priggishness and attempts at control. I think there are a lot of silent observers who aren't as clueless and sensitive as the SJW crowd. I think a lot of us need to not only demolish their arguments, but also laugh long and loud in their faces when they are openly dishonest, alarmist, and seek to control others through lies and intimidation.

To take seriously the thought that a bit of crude humor will put off huge numbers of people and drive them to the loving arms of ideologues, is more than a bit paternalistic. They can only keep a hold of those who are already perpetually aggrieved and they know it, that's why being perpetually aggrieved is so constantly reinforced among them, no matter what we do or don't do. Those who laugh and mock are their greatest enemies, not their weakest, and they know it. Refusing to mock these clowns, universally taking the high road, IMO, would do more damage than good. It would give seeming legitimacy to even the weakest of their claims of hatred and victimization.

Ps, I really do like your content. I also really like all the photoshops, even the blimp one (the joke goes deeper than the blimp, you know). They are both valuable in different ways.

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5197

Post by jimthepleb »

another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
i stand corrected
see how that works bb?

another lurker
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5198

Post by another lurker »

Ok, here are the relevant links:

viewtopic.php?p=58932#p58932
Saturday at 2:13pm


viewtopic.php?p=59280#p59280
Much later, reactions to SDG at 10:13pm saturday night

TheMan
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5199

Post by TheMan »

so I wake up to a pit shit fight over idealogies and principles. It's good that a group can openly discuss these things. Sad to see a departure.

As an outsider and someone not in the in-group (not uncomfortable with that) and also someone that has no historical investment into the whole online Atheist/skeptic scene and FTB frakass I still feel I could make some comments..I've been here long enough and long enough to accept and uphold the basic principles of No editing, you stand by your words (and pictures), skeptical display, no group think, etc etc ...it's unlikely I'll even embrace poking sticks at FTB but that's only because before poking sticks at entities I prefer to know what i'm poking sticks at and frankly, judging by posts here...getting to know FTB sounds like a chore. FTB hypocracy has been easily demonstrated and to me the pit has always been about continuing to demonstrate that aspect and their lack of orthodox scepticism...you know..like in the good old days (this is what I hear as an outsider).

I have to admit I squirmed a little whent he picture of PZ in a nappy was put up. I can see the funny side but being a bit of a chubster myself these days I can also see the shaming side. I used to feel sorry for the fat kids at school and I felt really stupid for joining in the teasing just so I can fit in with the cool group. I thought once I graduated it was something I woud leave behind but no... it still happens, sometimes in sneeky un-spoken ways.... you see it all around you and it seems it'll never go away. You grow a thick skin and adapt...sometimes even resorting to making fun of yourself just to prove to others you're Ok with how you see yourself. Then you hear funny quotes from your gay friends like...."any bloke over 35 and has a six-pack is gay". It's like there is some overlord type pressure to fit into a norm (patriarchy!! just kidding)...I'm digressing. The point I'm making is that fat & ugly people are going to gravitate away from fat & ugly jokes...so if you are going to make them you better be slim & georgeous...and post pictures to prove it :). Personally I prefer mature jokes...and/or silly witty ones that have more to do with concepts rather than physical attributes. I just choose to partake or appeciate more the conceptual ones. I'm not going to argue for change...I will speak up more against personal attacks in future. I don't want to be the person I was in Highschool.

I think all the blood letting today seems to come from recent events. It feels to me something died recently in the Pit...within a short time someone has been banned and a post has been edited or memory holed. There's two flags the pit can't wave anymore. Reasons aside the fact is that there IS a reason to ban and edit. Sorry Sacha but correcting a code mishap is way way different to re-editing a post. If anything fixing a spoiler mishap is making the post stand on it's merits, otherwise it's un-readable and spoils the flow of the forum.

I was going to rant about Eucli's banning and the editing of the post but it's happened, a decision was made... It's done...move on but I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen or it doesn't count because it happens so rarely...that's bullshit.

Steersman
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5200

Post by Steersman »

jimthepleb wrote:
another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
i stand corrected
see how that works bb?
“When pigs fly” => “when a Free-from-thought blogger stands corrected” ….

Mykeru
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Posts: 4758
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5201

Post by Mykeru »

AbsurdWalls wrote:
Submariner wrote:After watching Mykeru's video a few thoughts occurred to me:

1. I hope he is prepared for the doxing and employer tattling that is sure to come.

2. If Vacula was removed from his post, how does Melody Hensley still have hers?

3. I can hardly wait to see the reaction from the FC(n).
I was 90% sure that Mykeru's video was going to end with him revealing:
1) His full name.
2) His place of work.
3) His having had a meeting with his bosses to inform them that he is being harassed by online bullies.

1 & 2 are already in the hands of the people most worth keeping it from anyway.
Here's the problem there. I sort of addressed that in an earlier draft. The way their minds work, if I gave an inch they would take a mile. If I revealed anything they would (as Hoggle would predict) then claim everything is fair game and I would open myself to actual harassment.

Let them work at it.

http://www.soltshirts.com/uimages/YourHate375.jpg

We all knew 'Becca lifted that line, right?

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5202

Post by jimthepleb »

another lurker wrote:Ok, here are the relevant links:

viewtopic.php?p=58932#p58932
Saturday at 2:13pm


viewtopic.php?p=59280#p59280
Much later, reactions to SDG at 10:13pm saturday night
Thankyou lurker, this lazy wanker couldn't be bothered when he already knew he was right. I'm beginning to think BB is a provocateur. And decius...kiss my hairless sweaty arse;)

Mykeru
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5203

Post by Mykeru »

TheMan wrote:
I have to admit I squirmed a little whent he picture of PZ in a nappy was put up.
download/file.php?avatar=307_1358467979.jpg

Really?

dewi666
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5204

Post by dewi666 »

This lurkers two cents on the on this taming of the pit or whatever is this.

"Once more, alas, I find myself unable to follow the best Liberal thought. What the World's contention amounts to, at bottom, is simply the doctrine that a man engaged in combat with superstition should be very polite to superstition. This, I fear, is nonsense. The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame." - H.L. Mencken

Do not kid yourself into believing that the baboons beliefs are anything else other than superstition.

jimthepleb
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5205

Post by jimthepleb »

Mykeru the production standard on your work is outstanding. I have 2 very minor criticisms both of which i've left on the channel comments (my natural home) and neither of which amount to anything very much. If you ever have time i would love to have a natter with you via skype or equivalent as this stuff is something i would like to do myself but simply don't have the time to devote to learning by trial and error.

Za-zen
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Posts: 2683
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5206

Post by Za-zen »

Mykeru wrote:
d4m10n wrote:
Metalogic42 wrote:
Mykeru wrote:This should be fun:

[youtube]b_7SRa_xQNQ[/youtube]
48 minutes, jeez. I'll get back to you on that one. :P
Epic takedown is epic. Plus dog stories and the origins of the cow skull!
Thank you kindly everyone who said something nice about me and my return to videoing.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L2ZvIeYiTmE/T ... -field.jpg

I see some more discussion on tactics. I really do empathize with the "high road" people and the people who realize this is a dogfight.

Whatever approach taken, I think Welch and Franc and others would agree that the best approach is just hit these bastards head on. The thing a bully most fears is when you call their bluff.

I really don't mind being a lightening rod. I think it's worth it if one more person just loses all fear of their bullying bullshit or, even better, one of these bullies thinks twice before resorting to the lies and slander because they know if they bluff, it will be called.
Cuts straight through the fat. excellent

Apples
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Posts: 2406
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5207

Post by Apples »

jimthepleb wrote:
another lurker wrote:Ok, here are the relevant links:

viewtopic.php?p=58932#p58932
Saturday at 2:13pm


viewtopic.php?p=59280#p59280
Much later, reactions to SDG at 10:13pm saturday night
Thankyou lurker, this lazy wanker couldn't be bothered when he already knew he was right. I'm beginning to think BB is a provocateur. And decius...kiss my hairless sweaty arse;)
Yep. They're full of shit. If anything SDG's fireworks were a reaction to the 'uh-ho Stephie's mad' talk.

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5208

Post by jimthepleb »

Steersman wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:
another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
i stand corrected
see how that works bb?
“When pigs fly” => “when a Free-from-thought blogger stands corrected” ….
Ooooooh now it suddenly all makes sense... excuse my idiocy chaps. I forget they are here to troll us with a false morality...i'm a dumb cunt at the best of times. I'll go back to milking cows.

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5209

Post by jimthepleb »

Mykeru wrote:
TheMan wrote:
I have to admit I squirmed a little whent he picture of PZ in a nappy was put up.
download/file.php?avatar=307_1358467979.jpg

Really?
you gotta be kidding mykeru, that's a beautiful baby.. (at least that's what i told his mum)

Steersman
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Posts: 10933
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5210

Post by Steersman »

TheMan wrote:so I wake up to a pit shit fight over idealogies and principles. It's good that a group can openly discuss these things. Sad to see a departure.

<snip>
... Reasons aside the fact is that there IS a reason to ban and edit. Sorry Sacha but correcting a code mishap is way way different to re-editing a post. If anything fixing a spoiler mishap is making the post stand on it's merits, otherwise it's un-readable and spoils the flow of the forum.

I was going to rant about Eucli's banning and the editing of the post but it's happened, a decision was made... It's done...move on but I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen or it doesn't count because it happens so rarely...that's bullshit.
Quite good observations. One in particular deserves, I think, some amplification:
TheMan wrote:You grow a thick skin and adapt...sometimes even resorting to making fun of yourself just to prove to others you're Ok with how you see yourself. Then you hear funny quotes from your gay friends like...."any bloke over 35 and has a six-pack is gay". It's like there is some overlord type pressure to fit into a norm (patriarchy!! just kidding)...I'm digressing.
Maybe it is somewhat of a stretch, but I think it quite credible that there is, in fact, something to that “overlord type pressure”. Mirror neurons are a fact of life, though some seemingly want to deny that one among others, which might reasonably be thought to be the mechanism by which the “will of the majority” is imposed on the individual – even if it is manifested in going over various cliffs. In addition, the behaviour of swarming locusts suggests a similar feedback mechanism by which the behaviour of the group is imposed on the individual.

Apples
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Posts: 2406
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:39 pm

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5211

Post by Apples »

jimthepleb wrote:
Steersman wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:
another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
i stand corrected
see how that works bb?
“When pigs fly” => “when a Free-from-thought blogger stands corrected” ….
Ooooooh now it suddenly all makes sense... excuse my idiocy chaps. I forget they are here to troll us with a false morality...i'm a dumb cunt at the best of times. I'll go back to milking cows.
Well, we all know 'pitters are inveterate tit-grabbers.

rayshul
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Posts: 4871
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:00 am

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5212

Post by rayshul »

incognito wrote:I think this might be a US vs "rest of the developed world" issue. In the US, things like UHC and marriage equality and non-discrimiation legal basics are very much considered social justice issues.
Possibly, although the "social justice" phrase is something I've only recently (in the past ten years) seen, so I think it's a new heading for what would previously have been considered charity or equal rights activism.
incognito wrote:
Americans are a moral people; we care, we have big hearts. So if there's a problem — say, global warming — you've got to sell it to people: You don't want to hurt the planet, do you? How do you fix it? Ecological justice. What is ecological justice? Cap-and-trade: The United States — a country with a lot of wealth — will go to a country with no wealth... and we'll buy their air. Wow, that sounds like socialism or the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.
Health care: Don't you just want to help people without health care? Yes, I do — I don't want to see anyone hurt. I want to help. Well, they can't afford it — we need economic justice to fix it. Now wait, that sounds like socialism or the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.
Education: Who doesn't want to help people get an education? Some people didn't have an opportunity to get an education. It's just about social justice and balancing the scales. No, it actually sounds like socialism which is the forced redistribution of wealth, which is Marxism.
I disagree with him on universal health care and education being "Marxism", but other than that, he's right - those sorts of things are what social justice activists in the US are promoting.
I have to say that this is not something I have ever seen them promoting under the banner of "social justice". I see environmentalists, vegans and greenies (and farmers/local people) advocating for green/clean/etc. I see sick people advocating for healthcare and people who have experienced losses advocating for it; and I've seen better education promoted by teachers and parents. I recognise that you are looking at a definition of social justice that covers the general scope of "American leftist" activism (although I think that those issues have a rather large economic benefit and country-benefit... it's not about giving people better stuff on an individual level but about improving the country's capability and intellectual resources). I can accept that - although I would personally and emphatically reject that label, in much the same way I would now reject the label of "feminist".

Generally what I have seen is of social justice warriors... well, it's been basically the state of the A+ forums. Places where misogyny and racism are everywhere and anyone who can't recognise that is blinded by privilege. Very little appears to be more than whining or bits where people help themselves, not others - and a lot of it is posturing and one-upping. This is not something I would want to be near, nor do I see the connection between it and the very real work I see people do every day to support and develop accessible services. I mean... I literally can't see these two groups to be any further apart.

Steersman
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5213

Post by Steersman »

Apples wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:
Steersman wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:
another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
i stand corrected
see how that works bb?
“When pigs fly” => “when a Free-from-thought blogger stands corrected” ….
Ooooooh now it suddenly all makes sense... excuse my idiocy chaps. I forget they are here to troll us with a false morality...i'm a dumb cunt at the best of times. I'll go back to milking cows.
Well, we all know 'pitters are inveterate tit-grabbers.
That is so udderly bad ....

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Location: you kay?

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5214

Post by jimthepleb »

every time i see ophelia, i get happy in my pants
and this is how i shall deal with her from now on
i realise she may not be to everyones taste
but consider this, lust is disarming
and look again
she is beautiful in a unique way
very
very
unique but i love her...
i wouldn't want to stalk her
or make her feel uncomfortable
but seriously we need fanpages made to her sheer awesomeness
Beyonce Knowles is all over the net...and this is just misogynistic crap..OB is the REAL goddess worship at her feet...

TheMan
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Posts: 709
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:56 pm
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5215

Post by TheMan »

Mykeru wrote:
TheMan wrote:
I have to admit I squirmed a little whent he picture of PZ in a nappy was put up.
download/file.php?avatar=307_1358467979.jpg

Really?
of course! so hypocricitcal of me! the similarity of the insinuation is uncanny!

my err in not expanding on the hairy adult male wearing a nappy.... but I take your point. That avatar was made as a personal attack on me by someone I know (heh my brother). It comes from a long running meme about how much I resemble Rowan Atkinson. The avatar doesn't in any way suggest I like to dress up in nappies and be scolded into thinking a certain way by radfems....

Steersman
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Posts: 10933
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5216

Post by Steersman »

jimthepleb wrote:
Steersman wrote:
jimthepleb wrote:
another lurker wrote:jim, it started roughly around here, I think:

viewtopic.php?p=59528#p59528

SDG was a day later, at night.
i stand corrected
see how that works bb?
“When pigs fly” => “when a Free-from-thought blogger stands corrected” ….
Ooooooh now it suddenly all makes sense... excuse my idiocy chaps. I forget they are here to troll us with a false morality...i'm a dumb cunt at the best of times. I'll go back to milking cows.
Somewhat of a non-sequitur, methinks, which suggests you’ve misconstrued my meaning and intent. Just trying to point out that a Freethought Blogger actually conceding a point – somewhat incongruous considering that Zvan was moaning and complaining that no one here ever does that for them – is as scarce as hen’s teeth ….

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5217

Post by jimthepleb »

Steersman wrote: Well, we all know 'pitters are inveterate tit-grabbers.
That is so udderly bad ....[/quote]
And slowly we realise that that verbose ole bugger steerzo is coming to us:) love ya steers u difficult bugger u
now stop with the philosocrap and i'll give u a reacharound

Mykeru
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Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5218

Post by Mykeru »

jimthepleb wrote:Mykeru the production standard on your work is outstanding. I have 2 very minor criticisms both of which i've left on the channel comments (my natural home) and neither of which amount to anything very much. If you ever have time i would love to have a natter with you via skype or equivalent as this stuff is something i would like to do myself but simply don't have the time to devote to learning by trial and error.
Thanks.

If you give the criticism and questions here, I can try to answer them here.

I best there are all sorts of things wrong: Pacing, levels, organization. There comes a point when you just have to let it go.

I was a cartoonist on my student newspaper and and a friend of mine tasked himself to snatch the cartoon away before I worked it to death. There are tales of me chasing him through the student union, rapidograph in hand, yelling "I'm not done!"

jimthepleb
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Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:54 am
Location: you kay?

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5219

Post by jimthepleb »

well fine steers...no reacharound for you!
nuh uh!!

Mykeru
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Posts: 4758
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:52 am

Re: Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

#5220

Post by Mykeru »

TheMan wrote:he avatar doesn't in any way suggest I like to dress up in nappies and be scolded into thinking a certain way by radfems....
Uh huh. Sure.

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