Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Old subthreads
welch
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33901

Post by welch »

Badger3k wrote:Jason Turdblossom has a post on the anatomy of an apology, where he connects the apology made from Kickstarter (over the pick-up artist book) with the statement made by CFI. Jason still can't get the idea that while the kickstarter book may be misogynistic - I only saw snippets, and haven't seen the whole context that they were taken from (ex: if the passage where the writer tells the guy to put his dick in the hand of the woman comes in the bedroom after a consensual decision, that's a lot different than if the action takes place in public at a bar or party) - Lindsey's comment that was heard round the world (apparently rawstory is buying the narrative, whatever rawstory is) isn't misogynistic in the slightest. Complete comparison fail, but that's hardly surprising. I guess they do need some intellectual artillery after all.
Melissa actually looked at it in more detail than I. She said parts of it were creepy, and she could see how someone running "the game" could be quite intimidating/overbearing to someone who was meek, but, she couldn't see how it's a "rape" or "sexual assault" manual. She also noticed quite a few positive comments on it were from women.

But we all know it's "listen to the women!"* right?




*only as long as they act like properly helpless children who couldn't possibly be sexually aggressive in their own right and be down for a night of stick it in followed by "you're still here?"

welch
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33902

Post by welch »

Badger3k wrote:
welch wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:
welch wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:<blah blah blah from FtB re FtBcon>
I'm for ignoring the entire fucking thing. You know what it will be, so why waste the effort. They'll put up transcripts for the more masochistic, but fuck, unless they devote a session to how big an asshole I am, all it's going to be is the spoken word version of their written idiocy. So stupid, only slower. Fuck that.

and if they ARE doing a session on how big an asshole I am, I hope I can review the notes, they'll probably miss some important bits.
I think it's an interesting idea. Misses out on several of the high points of attending a conference in-person, but on the flip side is more available to more people at much lower cost (costs including $, time, even CO2).

I'll be interested to see how they do with it, and that the content will be recorded for posterity as it occurs - including, potentially, people speaking on topics they have little to no background in (which seems to happen more than infrequently around them, but the audience is usually relatively small, limited in ability to fact-check real-time, & the online version doesn't come out for weeks).

Interested, too, to get a sense of how they're moderating he Q&A and how they handle the inevitable difficult or challenging questions, the people who go off-script, etc.
It's interesting, but hardly new. This kind of thing's been going on for a couple years at least, although it could be new for the atheist community.
But...who's going to be buying them drinks? Are we going to be treated to a few hours of drunks slurring words, talking loudly, and telling embarrassing stories as if everyone cared to hear them? Will Watson he doing an "elevator cam"?
well, that's the thing. You get what is presented online, and no more. If someone has to go offline for some reason, or their connection drops, that conversation is done. Want to talk to someone later? good fucking luck.

Online meetings can be handy, but anyone who thinks they can take the place of a conference* is fucking stupid.



*not skepticon bullshit, but actual useful conferences, where reality matters, the speakers don't spend as much time on "y'all, I was so drunk last night" as the topic, and there's a point to being there other than "see becky drink".

Badger3k
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33903

Post by Badger3k »

welch wrote:
Coast Guard, IIRC, one tour.
Coast Guard! Seriously? I had to check and make sure that they are considered "military" - at least now they are part of the Dept of Homeland Security, and they do see some action with smugglers and the like, but nobody I know has ever talked about them being "military" - could just be service bias or the fact that they never really come up, but even the naval guys I knew didn't think much of "coasties". Learn something new every day.

Steersman
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33904

Post by Steersman »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Mykeru wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote: Oh the humanity! I am both a SJW and a MGTOW. Is is just not easy being AndrewV69 I tell ya.
Wait? You think there's a difference?
You are not the only one to make that sort of connection.

In other news over at AVfM Justicar makes an appearance:

Five stupid things about MRAs?
[youtubie]sXvv8i_u9SU[/youtube]
http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/five- ... bout-mras/
Good video. Although one might suggest that “rational”, as in rational critics, tends to be somewhat of a subjective term. I rather expect Elam's definition of the term to be quite different from, for example, Futrelle’s.


Hunt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33905

Post by Hunt »

BarnOwl wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:Richard Carrier has announced his main contribution to FtBCon: http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3902

(bolding as in original)
I’ve decided to speak about something deeply personal this time: What the Military Taught Me about Feminism. I’ll be telling some embarrassing and personal stories about my time in the service twenty years ago as a young naive man, and reflecting on how they changed me and contributed to what I know and how I think today. And I want to make Q&A a big part of that. I might make other appearances at the conference (on a panel perhaps). But that will be my main contribution.
Boring boring boring bored bored boring boring borrrrrrreeeddddddd.
Anything in the ambit of Richard Carrier is guaranteed to be, if not boring, then less than it could be for the reason that anything he governs has to go through and be limited by him. He can't even run a free discussion blog. It's more like a site where you write letters to The Great and Powerful Wizard of OZ. He's the one blogger that rivals PZ in terms of authoritarianism, obsession with control, and fear of free thought and discussion. A true intellectual realizes and has the guts to allow their contribution to move outside their own sphere of influence.

Badger3k
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33906

Post by Badger3k »

welch wrote: well, that's the thing. You get what is presented online, and no more. If someone has to go offline for some reason, or their connection drops, that conversation is done. Want to talk to someone later? good fucking luck.

Online meetings can be handy, but anyone who thinks they can take the place of a conference* is fucking stupid.



*not skepticon bullshit, but actual useful conferences, where reality matters, the speakers don't spend as much time on "y'all, I was so drunk last night" as the topic, and there's a point to being there other than "see becky drink".
But...but...their google hangouts (or google+ whatever) have been SO popular. They just set the standard.....an incredibly low one, but a standard nonetheless. I do think they can get some ad money from people selling No-Doze - they'll need it to stay awake if they actually want to hear what the "presenters" are saying.

Anyone want to be that Watson starts her talk by saying how hung-over she is? (that assumes she is speaking - autocorrect wanted to spell "spewing" when I started typing - coincidence?)

welch
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33907

Post by welch »

Badger3k wrote:
welch wrote:
Coast Guard, IIRC, one tour.
Coast Guard! Seriously? I had to check and make sure that they are considered "military" - at least now they are part of the Dept of Homeland Security, and they do see some action with smugglers and the like, but nobody I know has ever talked about them being "military" - could just be service bias or the fact that they never really come up, but even the naval guys I knew didn't think much of "coasties". Learn something new every day.
well, in the early 80s, the Coast Guard down in Miami had a lot of fun. ANd it is a legit branch of the military. But if you know anything about the military, read his description of his service, and laaaaaaaugh. (basically, unimpressive, and shows someone who managed to not get in trouble.)

Hunt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33908

Post by Hunt »

Badger3k wrote:
welch wrote:
Coast Guard, IIRC, one tour.
Coast Guard! Seriously? I had to check and make sure that they are considered "military" - at least now they are part of the Dept of Homeland Security, and they do see some action with smugglers and the like, but nobody I know has ever talked about them being "military" - could just be service bias or the fact that they never really come up, but even the naval guys I knew didn't think much of "coasties". Learn something new every day.
I actually have more respect for the CG than any other branch of the military, even though, or perhaps because of, their non-combat role. Granted, I don't know exactly how they're organized, or what percentage actually does search and rescue, but some of the rescues the CG do are fricking awesome. They'll do things like detect emergency beacons underwater from ships that have sunk, go back to shore, use current maps to track where survivors are, and then go out a hundred miles from shore and snatch people out of the ocean in the middle of the night. Amazing. My hat's off.

Steersman
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33909

Post by Steersman »

Badger3k wrote:Jason Turdblossom has a post on the anatomy of an apology .... Complete comparison fail, but that's hardly surprising. I guess they do need some intellectual artillery after all.
Certainly they need to increase the caliber as the range and impact leaves something to be desired .... :rimshot:

ReneeHendricks
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33910

Post by ReneeHendricks »

Well, I had a reply just get lost. Weird. Anyway, I was responding to the whole "let 'em be guests if they want" BS. My philosophy is if you're going through the trouble of putting out a point and expecting honest replies, own your shit. Even if it's a fictitious name. Logging in as "guest" and putting out posts and replies stinks of someone trying to hide who they are. And all I can think of is shitbags like "Chester" and others pulling this kind of crap.

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33911

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Mykeru wrote:
Hunt wrote:
Mykeru wrote: Benzos isn't even close to an answer.
I agree and don't agree at the same time. I don't think there's any question that there are a lot of people who have been totally fucked up by benzos, on the other hand, as a class of drugs, they've gotten a very bad rap based on that segment of people who have either deliberately or accidentally abused them.
Not at all saying people don't abuse these drugs, accidentally or intentionally, but here's something I've noticed about how this plays out.

People tend to be introduced to benzos, particularly the very short-acting Xanax, when they initially start having general anxiety and Panic Attacks. At that stage the incidents tend to be very, very intense and inexplicable. People don't know what is happening and why.

Here, let me skip a bit. I finally got to the stage where I recognized a panic attack for what it was: A triggering, without cause, of the fight or flight mechanism, flip of a switch in the Amygdala, part of the hard-wired response to dangers that humans, for the most part, no longer face in day-to-day existence. Once I started thinking of it in those terms, and recognizing there really was no "trigger" except one that could be classically conditioned as associated with a panic attack that was perhaps going to happen anyway, I got paradoxically bored with the whole thing.

But that was only after I took what was supposedly a "maintenance" dose of benzos like a good little patient, stopped taking them and went into full benzo withdrawal. I had no idea what was happening to me, I mean, it wasn't like I was walking around in happy land feeling like I was on something while taking the benzos anyway, and a later therapist told me with the amount I was given it would have taken me 4-6 weeks to ween myself off of it. As it was, I had to be prescribed Librium, the earliest synthesized long-acting form of benzo, and taper off that.

Talk about iatrogenic.

However, initially people who start having bone-fide panic attacks with all the symptoms of racing heart, feeling of suffocation, fear of loss of control and acting out, sweating, dissociation a sense of imminent doom and death and the like treat it as a life-threatening event, because that's exactly what it feels like. There's a tendency to become obsessed with what externally is causing it so as to avoid that situation. What happens is as you avoid one, it happens anyway, and so you avoid that, and so on until, unchecked, one can become a full-blown agoraphobic. Another thing I find people obsessing with is learning how to stop it once it starts, which tends to make it worse, the mental equivalent of "tensing up" and is the reason I tell people the only way out of a panic attack is out the other side.

And it's exactly at this point that powerful drugs are introduced to the person desperate to have some sense of control over it. People start taking it anticipatory and, even worse, benzos have a rebound effect, where they actually make the condition worse. That's especially the case with strong-short acting Xanax. Basically, you can take an average person who doesn't have any anxiety or panic attacks, give them Xanax for a while and actually induce the condition.

Supposedly, the benzos are a stop-gap measure, but I tend to think of them as a "get out of my office" measure, a quick and dirty solution for physicians that does nothing to really help the person.

So I would tend to talk more in terms of inadvertent dependency than abuse, and that's because the way people are given benzos, as THE solution with no better alternative, let alone knowledge that the benzos can be far worse than the condition they are supposed to treat, is a recipe for dependency. Most of the time the person prescribed benzos isn't referred to Cognitive and Behavioral Therapy, and isn't fully briefed on the pitfalls of the drugs because very often the physician prescribing doesn't have a clue themselves.

Skip if you aren't up for a sob story.
Thank fuck for benzos. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life was delaying taking them. TBH, I've struggled with some or all of Bipolar, OCD and Schizotypal or Social Anxiety Disorder most of my life. I always took the stoic approach and just dealt with the depressive episodes by trusting that they'd pass and sleeping a lot. I preferred not to medicate because I never wanted to fall into the trap of identifying myself as anything other than a fully functional human being. I never imagined that there could be a situation that could not be overcome by riding it out. Then I did someone a big favour (involved marrying someone 18 years younger and sharing a flat with them). When the shit started, like her mother moving in, I decided to just keep my mouth shut and ride it out because the whole situation should only have lasted a further 6 months. Needless to say, I became very depressed, had trouble sleeping, and within 2 months I could not get even 1 seconds sleep without drugs, and 3 hours max then. The tiredness triggered anxiety, with permanent laboured breathing. After a few weeks of that I was in a manic mental state while permanently bone-achingly exhausted, knowing full-well that I could not get relief. I used the Benzos very sparingly because if I didn't get the three hours kip the rebound anxiety from the drugs would compound things. It got to the stage where was too tired to stand and lying down hurt my bones and my skin sometimes felt like it was being rubbed with sandpaper. I was absolutely helpless, like a mewling child, and there was nothing I could do about it. Actually there was, but the mental state I was in stopped me from seeing it. I flew back to South Africa and checked into a private clinic and they immediately shoveled Xanax and a cocktail of sleeping meds down my throat. Within a couple of days I started to feel semi-human again. If I'd maxed out on the drugs from the start I could have skipped the whole business. 13 years later I have not got my life back. I used to be able to sleep so easily that I'd force myself to stay awake just for the sheer pleasure of relaxing in bed. Now I have a permanently heightened state of awareness and can never properly relax. The slightest pressure keeps me awake the whole night. CBT, no effect on me.

As an aside, I highly recommend a short stay in the nuthouse. It's liberating. Very few pretensions in there because you are in the fucking nuthouse after all.

Badger3k
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33912

Post by Badger3k »

Hunt wrote:
Badger3k wrote:
welch wrote:
Coast Guard, IIRC, one tour.
Coast Guard! Seriously? I had to check and make sure that they are considered "military" - at least now they are part of the Dept of Homeland Security, and they do see some action with smugglers and the like, but nobody I know has ever talked about them being "military" - could just be service bias or the fact that they never really come up, but even the naval guys I knew didn't think much of "coasties". Learn something new every day.
I actually have more respect for the CG than any other branch of the military, even though, or perhaps because of, their non-combat role. Granted, I don't know exactly how they're organized, or what percentage actually does search and rescue, but some of the rescues the CG do are fricking awesome. They'll do things like detect emergency beacons underwater from ships that have sunk, go back to shore, use current maps to track where survivors are, and then go out a hundred miles from shore and snatch people out of the ocean in the middle of the night. Amazing. My hat's off.
I agree with that - the Coast Guard does a lot of good, and I respect them for that, but I've always thought of them as more "sea cops" than military personnel, and that even was way, way back when I thought about joining them when I got old enough (that changed to the more land-based services when I'd rather walk then try to swim).

Skep tickle
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33913

Post by Skep tickle »

Hunt wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:Richard Carrier has announced his main contribution to FtBCon: http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3902

(bolding as in original)
I’ve decided to speak about something deeply personal this time: What the Military Taught Me about Feminism. I’ll be telling some embarrassing and personal stories about my time in the service twenty years ago as a young naive man, and reflecting on how they changed me and contributed to what I know and how I think today. And I want to make Q&A a big part of that. I might make other appearances at the conference (on a panel perhaps). But that will be my main contribution.
Boring boring boring bored bored boring boring borrrrrrreeeddddddd.
Anything in the ambit of Richard Carrier is guaranteed to be, if not boring, then less than it could be for the reason that anything he governs has to go through and be limited by him. He can't even run a free discussion blog. It's more like a site where you write letters to The Great and Powerful Wizard of OZ. He's the one blogger that rivals PZ in terms of authoritarianism, obsession with control, and fear of free thought and discussion. A true intellectual realizes and has the guts to allow their contribution to move outside their own sphere of influence.
Right - and he wants "to make Q&A a big part of" his presentation.

A session in which "Q&A" about Carrier's feminism is "a big part", but only approved/moderated questions, but presumably approved/moderated by someone other than Carrier if they're coming in live via chat. Imagine what questions the FtB commentariat might come up with for him. Or the answers he might give. Or not, in which case: the dead air. Recorded for posterity.

rpguest

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33914

Post by rpguest »

quick tangent on the nature of conventions, ftb ineptitude, and the insular nature of the atheismoskeptosphere

online conference?

ffs how shitty do you have to be to have access to dozens aged professionals, but no confidence or ability to start ANYTHING on your own? that some of your best offerings are from a track at an actual successful event like dragoncon?

a year before the first TAM, a friend and bunch of his college buds decided to start a convension. they did so by him putting eleven thousand dollars on his credit card, and having access to at least three people with functional brains, and some other volunteers. their first con had a reasonable door charge (still only fifty buck for the weekend), paid itself off and then some, and by year three they had more attendees than any TAM has ever had

this year they had more than 13000

yet only one subset of congoers would openly mock these sort as wasting their time, while a dozen people out less than 200 think theyre changing the world for the better by holding up tiny pieces of paper, and the 99% white attendees complain about lack of diversity in their movement while possibly listening to two black speakers if they didnt have a hangover from too much drinking at a bar in one of the blackest cities in the country


there might have been a run on sentence in there somewhere

seriously though, just how inept?

Badger3k
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33915

Post by Badger3k »

Skep tickle wrote: Right - and he wants "to make Q&A a big part of" his presentation.

A session in which "Q&A" about Carrier's feminism is "a big part", but only approved/moderated questions, but presumably approved/moderated by someone other than Carrier if they're coming in live via chat. Imagine what questions the FtB commentariat might come up with for him. Or the answers he might give. Or not, in which case: the dead air. Recorded for posterity.
Well, considering he'd probably have to read the questions off himself, I'd be amazed if he simply didn't make up his own, to show off his intellectual brilliance.

In other news, WTF is it with bad poetry at FTB? First they let cuttlefish have a blog to post his drivel, then Yemini and her ecosexual garbage, now PZ-clone Chris Clarke has done it. The whole thing :
In Boring fields the suburbs grow
In Council houses row on row,
A cozy place; and in the sky
The plastic bags still bravely fly
Used once by urbanites below.
We paved the Dead. Short days ago
It lived, sank roots, let seedpods blow,
Ten thousand years, but bid goodbye
to Boring fields.
Dig up the squirrel with backhoe:
On us, the moneyed hands bestow
A coin, a handshake and school tie.
You’ll do no good to wonder why.
We shall not sleep till leaseholds grow
In Boring fields.
It has to do with some English minister made a comment about having to build on environmentally boring fields - from what I read, it seems like his comments are concerned with an increasing population and no room for housing, and having to decide where to build. Not sure of the backstory on it, but the fact is that something has to give if people need room for housing, even if we want to build something like Mega-City One's blocs (or Warhammer's Hives).

Still, the main point is...wtf is up with poetry? Are we going to see ads for Hemp shoes next?

Whig
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33916

Post by Whig »

A military tour de force, of course.[/quote]



Well, I guess he must have been in the "intellectual" artillery corps.[/quote]

Coast Guard, IIRC, one tour.[/quote]

I think he was a B-1 bomber mechanic.

rpguest

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33917

Post by rpguest »

ReneeHendricks wrote:Well, I had a reply just get lost. Weird. Anyway, I was responding to the whole "let 'em be guests if they want" BS. My philosophy is if you're going through the trouble of putting out a point and expecting honest replies, own your shit. Even if it's a fictitious name. Logging in as "guest" and putting out posts and replies stinks of someone trying to hide who they are. And all I can think of is shitbags like "Chester" and others pulling this kind of crap.
to be fair i am most certainly a shitbag

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33918

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

welch wrote:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
Tribble wrote:
welch wrote:

yes, yes, and the husband was a perfect angel who had nary a cross word for even the mosquito biting him.

I have yet to see ANY divorce where both sides weren't the asshole.
That's your delusion, not mine. Been re-married for nearly 15-years now and not a single problem of note and the marriage is better today for both myself and my wife than when we started...

As for the ex, she drove the guy who followed me to suicide. Go figure.
Maybe because if one party is an arsehole the other is forced into acting arseholey to protect themself by the uncaring juggernaut that is the legal system.
I'd hope the legal system is uncaring. I want it as uncaring as fucking possible. I want it ruthlessly uncaring. Because if they start caring, you never know who they're going to shit on while caring about the other side.

Why is "uncaring" so fucking bad here? What, you want to flip THAT coin???
Uncaring about whether or not it reaches an equitable outcome. If the system was doing it's job there would be no advantage to laying on the bullshit with a trowel. I'd have to conclude from the advice that divorce lawyers appear to dispense that the party most adept at dirty tactics comes out ahead. I definitely want those in the system to care about making the effort to reach a fair decision.

AndrewV69
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33919

Post by AndrewV69 »

Steersman wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:
Mykeru wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote: Oh the humanity! I am both a SJW and a MGTOW. Is is just not easy being AndrewV69 I tell ya.
Wait? You think there's a difference?
You are not the only one to make that sort of connection.

In other news over at AVfM Justicar makes an appearance:

Five stupid things about MRAs?
[youtubie]sXvv8i_u9SU[/youtube]
http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/five- ... bout-mras/
Good video. Although one might suggest that “rational”, as in rational critics, tends to be somewhat of a subjective term. I rather expect Elam's definition of the term to be quite different from, for example, Futrelle’s.

Haha! You said "Futrelle" ... lol.

Bhurzum
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33920

Post by Bhurzum »

Hunt wrote:I actually have more respect for the CG than any other branch of the military, even though, or perhaps because of, their non-combat role. Granted, I don't know exactly how they're organized, or what percentage actually does search and rescue, but some of the rescues the CG do are fricking awesome. They'll do things like detect emergency beacons underwater from ships that have sunk, go back to shore, use current maps to track where survivors are, and then go out a hundred miles from shore and snatch people out of the ocean in the middle of the night. Amazing. My hat's off.
Just out of curiosity, why does non-com deserve more respect?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33921

Post by Steersman »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/five- ... bout-mras/

Good video. Although one might suggest that “rational”, as in rational critics, tends to be somewhat of a subjective term. I rather expect Elam's definition of the term to be quite different from, for example, Futrelle’s.

Haha! You said "Futrelle" ... lol.
Did I spell his name wrong? Or was it just the incongruity of the linkage? :-)

But I referenced Futrelle because of this post of his because he seems to have caught Elam – or company – with their thumb on the scales:
I feel a little guilty. Men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men had to “withdraw" one of its posts earlier this week after I demonstrated conclusively here that the site had used a fake screenshot to try to back up the article’s strange claim that Google searches for “violence against men” in fact returned mostly results related to violence against women. (It doesn't. Try it.)
One of the problematic aspects of both the MRM and the “FRM” is their tendency to support their arguments with rather dodgy data - being charitable. Fitting the facts to the ideology rather than vice versa – something that tends to turn out rather badly, Lysenkoism being a case in point.

AndrewV69
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33922

Post by AndrewV69 »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: I flew back to South Africa and checked into a private clinic and they immediately shoveled Xanax and a cocktail of sleeping meds down my throat. Within a couple of days I started to feel semi-human again. If I'd maxed out on the drugs from the start I could have skipped the whole business. 13 years later I have not got my life back. I used to be able to sleep so easily that I'd force myself to stay awake just for the sheer pleasure of relaxing in bed. Now I have a permanently heightened state of awareness and can never properly relax. The slightest pressure keeps me awake the whole night. CBT, no effect on me.
My experience was a bit different. I arranged for a prescription before I flew out because I knew ahead of time that I was heading into some fucked up shit. Long story short .. I only used a couple of Xanax and stopped because it was slowing me down, which was highly undesirable under the circumstances. Needless to say I survived the engagement without it.

If you have Insomnia, can I suggest doing some exercises (make sure you work up a good sweat) 3-4 hours before bed time? It works for me. It might for you.
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: As an aside, I highly recommend a short stay in the nuthouse. It's liberating. Very few pretensions in there because you are in the fucking nuthouse after all.
I am going to pass on that one due to a concern that if they ever got a good look at me, I would never be getting out again. :lol:

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33923

Post by Steersman »

welch wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote: <snip>
Do you have any quotes from PZ where he admits to using misogynistic slurs in the past and says he has now changed?
That looks like a case of moving the goalposts, of grasing at straws there Dick. So to speak. You’re a better man than that – Gunga Din. :-)
I was a complete idiot in my 20s. Fuck, i'm probably still one now.
Generally goes with that territory. I’m lucky I didn’t wind up as a poster boy for the Darwin Awards.

But that isn’t the point. Which is the analogy of raking you over the coals, of judging you now, for what you did then by the standards you hold now: of saying not that you were an idiot then for what you did then, but that you are an idiot now for what you did then.
welch wrote:But that's not what people are pissed at PeeZus about, and you well know this.
Indeed. And I generally throw stones at him whenever he crosses my gun sights – “target of opportunity”. Although I tend to want to put him in the stocks for what he’s done rather than for what he hasn’t done. Here for instance. [/shameless linking to external comment]
welch wrote:I sometimes wonder if you've ever actually seen a forest, or is it naught but vaguely organized cells and molecules to you, with the overall purpose being something you simply cannot grasp, because you're 300 meters BELOW the weeds.
The thing is though that if you call something a tree, and close examination of it reveals that it is in fact an aardvark then most people are likely to question your conclusions and prescriptions that supposedly follow from your perceptions of a supposed forest. Even if some of the other things you’ve called trees are in fact trees.

AndrewV69
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33924

Post by AndrewV69 »

Steersman wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/five- ... bout-mras/

Good video. Although one might suggest that “rational”, as in rational critics, tends to be somewhat of a subjective term. I rather expect Elam's definition of the term to be quite different from, for example, Futrelle’s.

Haha! You said "Futrelle" ... lol.
Did I spell his name wrong? Or was it just the incongruity of the linkage? :-)

But I referenced Futrelle because of this post of his because he seems to have caught Elam – or company – with their thumb on the scales:
I feel a little guilty. Men’s rights hate site A Voice for Men had to “withdraw" one of its posts earlier this week after I demonstrated conclusively here that the site had used a fake screenshot to try to back up the article’s strange claim that Google searches for “violence against men” in fact returned mostly results related to violence against women. (It doesn't. Try it.)
One of the problematic aspects of both the MRM and the “FRM” is their tendency to support their arguments with rather dodgy data - being charitable. Fitting the facts to the ideology rather than vice versa – something that tends to turn out rather badly, Lysenkoism being a case in point.
I tend to not pay any attention to Futrelle because I consider him a buffoon of the first water.

I have no objection to reading what other have to say, but I have derived little of value from him in the past to make reading him worthwhile.

I visit Jezebell from time to time so there is no need for me to read his watered down version of runny shit in search of the occasional fleck of gold.

YMMV

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33925

Post by Steersman »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Steersman wrote:
But I referenced Futrelle because of this post of his because he seems to have caught Elam – or company – with their thumb on the scales:
I tend to not pay any attention to Futrelle because I consider him a buffoon of the first water.

I have no objection to reading what other have to say, but I have derived little of value from him in the past to make reading him worthwhile.

I visit Jezebell from time to time so there is no need for me to read his watered down version of runny shit in search of the occasional fleck of gold. YMMV
He’s certainly heavily invested in feminism which is somewhat of a problem, but I generally only read the head-lines of the e-mail notifications I receive of his posts.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33926

Post by Gefan »

Mykeru wrote: And some dudes like that sort of thing.

http://vietne.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ballkick.gif
That dull roar you all hear in the background is Amanda Marcotte turning the vibrator up to eleven.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33927

Post by Hunt »

Bhurzum wrote:
Hunt wrote:I actually have more respect for the CG than any other branch of the military, even though, or perhaps because of, their non-combat role. Granted, I don't know exactly how they're organized, or what percentage actually does search and rescue, but some of the rescues the CG do are fricking awesome. They'll do things like detect emergency beacons underwater from ships that have sunk, go back to shore, use current maps to track where survivors are, and then go out a hundred miles from shore and snatch people out of the ocean in the middle of the night. Amazing. My hat's off.
Just out of curiosity, why does non-com deserve more respect?
I was about to say this was specific to 'Merka, but on second thought, most modern (first world) armed forces covertly serve economic interests, not just domestic and foreign policies of defense. In other words, modern military serves profit motivated corporate interests, and I have no respect for that at all. Coast Guards are a possible exception, and I give search and rescue a full pass. So I guess my point is that I can appreciate the awesomeness of these agencies in the CG without having to sign off on all the other bullshit and evil they do in the world.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33928

Post by Skep tickle »

Steersman, your "shameless link" above led me to catch up at Katie's post at Canadian Atheist, where EBW has posted this tidbit:
http://canadianatheist.com/2013/06/20/l ... ment-27432
EllenBeth Wachs on June 21, 2013 at 10:07 pm said:

You don’t have to just believe me about them wanting to replace Lindsay with Watson or Hensley. I have proof. I haven’t wanted to pull it out yet until they deny it.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33929

Post by Steersman »

Skep tickle wrote:Steersman, your "shameless link" above led me to catch up at Katie's post at Canadian Atheist, where EBW has posted this tidbit:
http://canadianatheist.com/2013/06/20/l ... ment-27432
EllenBeth Wachs on June 21, 2013 at 10:07 pm said:

You don’t have to just believe me about them wanting to replace Lindsay with Watson or Hensley. I have proof. I haven’t wanted to pull it out yet until they deny it.
Ah-ha! The smoking gun! :-)

Stay tuned for another thrilling episode in "As the AtheoSkeptoSphere Turns"! :popcorn:
[Though I note a questionable acronym there which I think someone else had pointed out .... :shock: ]

But thanks for the update - hadn't received the e-mail notification for that yet.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33930

Post by Hunt »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: Skip if you aren't up for a sob story.
Thank fuck for benzos. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life was delaying taking them.

...
YES. That's the flip side to irresponsibly handing them out. I truly believe there are emergency situations where delivering enough benzos to get a person back in control of their life can actually be matter of life or death. In fact, skip this if you don't want to hear a very sad story. Fourteen years ago a friend of mine killed himself under a similar circumstance. For one reason or another he grew anxious, could not sleep for weeks, sought attention in an emergency unit, was temporarily hospitalized and then sent home with Buspar (a minimally effective drug, perhaps effective 5% of the time, and takes weeks to work). A few weeks later I heard he'd sucked on a barrel and shot himself, using a gun his father foolishly kept in the house. The medical "establishment" seems to have gotten the message that depression can kill. Less known is that anxiety, under the right conditions, can kill as well. Being utterly exhausted, anxious and sleepless for weeks on end is antithetical to life.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33931

Post by rayshul »

Hm. Reading back a bit on the discussion on paying for kids. I'm definitely against the idea of someone who is essentially a sperm donor being forced to pay for a child, or having any forced legal obligation there. I'm lucky as a woman I have more control of reproduction so that's unlikely to happen to me but if I was a man and someone attempted to do that to me, I'd exit the country and never return. I pay taxes so my government should be able to support children and single-parent families without forcing people to pay for children they don't want. It's worrying that it happens.

I have my own vested interest in this issue anyway - the twins I'm currently pregnant with are the result of a private donation. We have signed basic legal papers to make clear that the donor will absolutely *not* have any financial obligation, but I do know that sometimes this shit can go to court and even these pre-agreements won't help (particularly in other countries). For couples with infertility issues, it's incredibly important that people are allowed to make the choice to be a parent or not and that financial obligations are worked out early. I think it's a considerable risk to any couples looking at private donation if donors are not fully reassured that they can be a donor without the risk, later down the track, of getting caught up in a financial problem.

There is inequality in reproduction between the genders, and that's not going to change. But I think you can make it as fair as possible legally.

rayshul
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33932

Post by rayshul »

Skep tickle wrote:Steersman, your "shameless link" above led me to catch up at Katie's post at Canadian Atheist, where EBW has posted this tidbit:
http://canadianatheist.com/2013/06/20/l ... ment-27432
EllenBeth Wachs on June 21, 2013 at 10:07 pm said:

You don’t have to just believe me about them wanting to replace Lindsay with Watson or Hensley. I have proof. I haven’t wanted to pull it out yet until they deny it.
She's such a tease.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33933

Post by Steersman »

rayshul wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:Steersman, your "shameless link" above led me to catch up at Katie's post at Canadian Atheist, where EBW has posted this tidbit:
http://canadianatheist.com/2013/06/20/l ... ment-27432
EllenBeth Wachs on June 21, 2013 at 10:07 pm said:

You don’t have to just believe me about them wanting to replace Lindsay with Watson or Hensley. I have proof. I haven’t wanted to pull it out yet until they deny it.
She's such a tease.
Yes, I kind of wondered about that. If she doesn't have the goods then her reputation is going to take a serious hit. And if she does then she really should just put those cards on the table.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Cyber the Sucker Made Me Do It

#33934

Post by Michael K Gray »

Steersman wrote:Yes, I kind of wondered about that. If she doesn't have the goods then her reputation is going to take a serious hit. And if she does then she really should just put those cards on the table.
Wanna play poker?
You sound like a natural with that bit of knowledgable advice.
AU$5,000 buy-in, maximum raise AU$1,000.
I expect that EBW might also 'want in on' the game as well, given the stellar sagacity of your advice to her, and the superiority of your 'wor(l)dly ways' over hers.

Come in spinner?

LurkerPerson

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33935

Post by LurkerPerson »

Tsk tsk rayshul, haven't you heard from the likes of welch? Talking about the inequalities in parental and conception rights in modern society is the equivalent of shitting on an innocent woman and curbchecking her child. It's impossible that you could disagree and not be woman-hating MGTOW. Teh welch has mansplained, and you must submit.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33936

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Steersman wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
So, presumably, one could quite reasonably argue that PZ and the rest of the Horde now view “slut” as a sexist slur that “hits everyone in the group women” and is therefore misogynistic. But the point is that that standard is the result of some relatively recent revelation on PZ’s road to Damascus, and not one that he held at the time of that “slut” joke. And for you and others to be trying to hold him to that standard – to rake him over the coals for that specific transgression – is a case of “applying new laws retroactively”. Not at all cricket – at least in my view.
<snip>
There's no road to Damascus conversion because he's a lifelong convert.
According to him.
So no benefit of the doubt from me.
Do you have any quotes from PZ where he admits to using misogynistic slurs in the past and says he has now changed?
That looks like a case of moving the goalposts, of grasing at straws there Dick. So to speak. You’re a better man than that – Gunga Din. :-)

Throw stones at him if you wish that he doesn’t engage in some public self-flagellation as atonement for not being sufficiently enlightened at the time of that joke. Although I don’t see any crime of misogyny there, only a joke turning on the meaning of a word. But judging him on that lack of past enlightenment – something that most of us are probably guilty of, with the possible exception of welch – seems rather different from judging him on the transgression of a law, regardless of how questionable if not flaky it is, that he hadn’t accepted, articulated, defined, or committed himself to until well after the supposed crime itself.
The point, that you seem determined to avoid, is not that we are accusing Myers of misogyny by the standard definition of the term. His slut and bitch jokes, I agree, are not evidence of misogyny.
What we accuse him of is hypocrisy. You seem to think he is immune from this accusation because of some strange statute of limitations that exists somewhere that you can't quite locate - but one that only applies to Myers and his allies NOT to his opponents who are still defined as misogynists for gendered insults used hears ago (for example the various 'Twatson' insults made at Rebecca Watson two years ago.)
Indeed it is sufficient to simply post on the slymepit, for you to be labeled a misogynist.
If it is incorrect for us, according to you, to call Myers a hypocrite for having used the same expressions that he uses to define others as misogynists because of this mysterious 'Road to Damascus' event, then is it not fair to label him a hypocrite for labeling OTHER people as misogynists for gendered insults uttered likewise prior to the date of the 'road to Damascus' conversion?

Which brings up the question, which date is the cut-off point?
What date did bitch and slut become misogynistic?
So far you are the only one who seems to believe in this theory so I guess you must have something to back it up other than idle conjecture.

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محمد‎ the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33937

Post by Michael K Gray »

[youtube]gxGUkbsdCk4[/youtube]
2:37 Pat 'has a go" at the White Western Feminista Clique's priorities, amongst other blatant hypocrites.

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Re: Cyber the Sucker Made Me Do It

#33938

Post by Steersman »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Steersman wrote:Yes, I kind of wondered about that. If she doesn't have the goods then her reputation is going to take a serious hit. And if she does then she really should just put those cards on the table.
Wanna play poker?
You sound like a natural with that bit of knowledgable advice.
AU$5,000 buy-in, maximum raise AU$1,000.
I expect that EBW might also 'want in on' the game as well, given the stellar sagacity of your advice to her, and the superiority of your 'wor(l)dly ways' over hers.

Come in spinner?
That’s a little rich for my blood so I’ll pass at those table stakes.

However, considering that you apparently have much higher standards and more knowledge of the arcana of poker on which to base your criticism of my assessment, maybe you would care to explain how that statement of hers doesn’t qualify as a potential bluff or as a bet which the other “team” has to match or fold. Or, to mix metaphors, as having let the cat out of the bag.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33939

Post by Hunt »

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... /#comments
In Boring fields the suburbs grow
In Council houses row on row,
A cozy place; and in the sky
The plastic bags still bravely fly
Used once by urbanites below.
Not if you have a bag ban, like where I live. Fucking annoying, but you get used to it.

rayshul
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33940

Post by rayshul »

LurkerPerson wrote:Tsk tsk rayshul, haven't you heard from the likes of welch? Talking about the inequalities in parental and conception rights in modern society is the equivalent of shitting on an innocent woman and curbchecking her child. It's impossible that you could disagree and not be woman-hating MGTOW. Teh welch has mansplained, and you must submit.
Eh. I just think that we should expect better from our government and our society. If we can't trust our government to look after our children that's the problem, and it isn't really getting solved by forcing people to financially support children they never intended or wanted to have. It's just another form of punishing people for having sex.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33941

Post by cunt »

Steersman wrote:
Michael K Gray wrote:
Steersman wrote:Yes, I kind of wondered about that. If she doesn't have the goods then her reputation is going to take a serious hit. And if she does then she really should just put those cards on the table.
Wanna play poker?
You sound like a natural with that bit of knowledgable advice.
AU$5,000 buy-in, maximum raise AU$1,000.
I expect that EBW might also 'want in on' the game as well, given the stellar sagacity of your advice to her, and the superiority of your 'wor(l)dly ways' over hers.

Come in spinner?
That’s a little rich for my blood so I’ll pass at those table stakes.

However, considering that you apparently have much higher standards and more knowledge of the arcana of poker on which to base your criticism of my assessment, maybe you would care to explain how that statement of hers doesn’t qualify as a potential bluff or as a bet which the other “team” has to match or fold. Or, to mix metaphors, as having let the cat out of the bag.
Because when you're bluffing, you should put your cards out on the table to prove that you're not bluffing. Before even being called on it? I'm struggling to follow your logic here Steersman.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33942

Post by Michael K Gray »

rayshul wrote:It's just another form of punishing people for having sex.
Some folk will willingly pay for such.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33943

Post by Michael K Gray »

cunt wrote:Because when you're bluffing, you should put your cards out on the table to prove that you're not bluffing. Before even being called on it? I'm struggling to follow your logic here Steersman.
(Schtum!! Don't let him in on his basic error before I have fleeced the fool dry.)
There goes your monthly bribe, mate.
5p poorer. Suffer!

Right. Next sucker?
What's yer name, now?
Greg? Nice name, sir.
I like the stack of paperbacks that you are carrying.
Remaindered, you say?

Sundoogoogoo-dolls, you say? How about a quick poker game?
Are you MAN enough?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33944

Post by Hunt »

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... n-apology/
People are talking a lot lately about what qualities a genuine apology might take — what sort of apology, for instance, Ron Lindsay might be expected to make if many of the feminists he’s so undercut with his opening speech are going to actually accept it and thereafter find it in their hearts to resume their support of CFI, given that most of us have explicitly ASKED for such an apology.
Impressive, young Jedi, but there is still much you must learn from the Dark Side. You have only made the implicit comparison to a loathsome PUA, when you should have hinted at a comparison with sexual harassers and rapists. Your skill is not yet complete. The Empress is your master now...

http://skepchick.org/2013/06/the-standa ... ou-accept/
We need leaders who are more like Lt. Gen. Morrison. Hell, I’ll take leaders who are just a little less like this and this and this.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33945

Post by cunt »

Michael K Gray wrote:
cunt wrote:Because when you're bluffing, you should put your cards out on the table to prove that you're not bluffing. Before even being called on it? I'm struggling to follow your logic here Steersman.
(Schtum!! Don't let him in on his basic error before I have fleeced the fool dry.)
There goes your monthly bribe, mate.
5p poorer. Suffer!

Right. Next sucker?
What's yer name, now?
Greg? Nice name, sir.
I like the stack of paperbacks that you are carrying.
Remaindered, you say?

Sundoogoogoo-dolls, you say? How about a quick poker game?
Are you MAN enough?
Genuinely lol-ed at that.

Steersman
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33946

Post by Steersman »

cunt wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
That’s a little rich for my blood so I’ll pass at those table stakes.

However, considering that you apparently have much higher standards and more knowledge of the arcana of poker on which to base your criticism of my assessment, maybe you would care to explain how that statement of hers doesn’t qualify as a potential bluff or as a bet which the other “team” has to match or fold. Or, to mix metaphors, as having let the cat out of the bag.
Because when you're bluffing, you should put your cards out on the table to prove that you're not bluffing. Before even being called on it? I'm struggling to follow your logic here Steersman.
Not having played all that much poker, I’m winging it a little. But my impression of a bluff is to state you’re holding cards that you don’t actually have:
By extension, the term is often used outside the context of poker to describe the act of making threats one cannot execute.
In EBW’s case, if that is in fact a bluff and she doesn’t have that proof then, as I said, I think her reputation will suffer. And that was why I said a “potential” bluff. But if she does – which is, I think, the more likely case – then that is the smoking gun, the winning hand which I think she should lay out for all to see.

But that charge of trying to get Lindsay fired seems to have first shown up in the Skeptic Woman [SW] petition which someone else responded to here:
Kaoru Negisa wrote:
SW wrote:We are aware of a campaign, headed by Amanda Marcotte and others, to remove Ronald A. Lindsay from his position as CEO of the Center for Inquiry. We do not support this effort.
Where? Where has anybody, Amanda Marcotte or otherwise, lead a “campaign” for Ron Lindsay to be fired? Everybody I have read has asked for an apology, either from him or on his behalf.
Although I suppose one might quibble over the connotations of getting Lindsay fired versus “wanting to replace Lindsay with Watson or Hensley”. Or it might be quite significant.

Gefan
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33947

Post by Gefan »

Walter recently requested we break up all the breeder talk with something "more gay".

Start at 1:40.

[youtube]UEzLl7TKO-M[/youtube]

Pro-wrestling: making the Folsom Street Fair look like a John Wayne Film Festival since 1908.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Ronny the Kray Made Me Do It

#33948

Post by Michael K Gray »

cunt wrote:Genuinely lol-ed at that.
To be imagined in a 1960's East-End Isle-of-Dogs Spiv accent. Know wot I mean, guvna? Eh?

Much as I imagine Rebecca Watson vocalising:
'Ere! Leave 'er alone Justin! She ain't werf it!
(With the glottal stops, and all)


Cue "Eastenders" theme.
[youtube]cZYa_KfLTtM[/youtube]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33949

Post by cunt »

Steersman wrote:
cunt wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
That’s a little rich for my blood so I’ll pass at those table stakes.

However, considering that you apparently have much higher standards and more knowledge of the arcana of poker on which to base your criticism of my assessment, maybe you would care to explain how that statement of hers doesn’t qualify as a potential bluff or as a bet which the other “team” has to match or fold. Or, to mix metaphors, as having let the cat out of the bag.
Because when you're bluffing, you should put your cards out on the table to prove that you're not bluffing. Before even being called on it? I'm struggling to follow your logic here Steersman.
Not having played all that much poker, I’m winging it a little. But my impression of a bluff is to state you’re holding cards that you don’t actually have:
By extension, the term is often used outside the context of poker to describe the act of making threats one cannot execute.
In EBW’s case, if that is in fact a bluff and she doesn’t have that proof then, as I said, I think her reputation will suffer. And that was why I said a “potential” bluff. But if she does – which is, I think, the more likely case – then that is the smoking gun, the winning hand which I think she should lay out for all to see.
You really don't understand poker do you? Here's a hint: if you make a bluff and don't get called on it - you win.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33950

Post by cunt »

Not even like pokers a particularly great analogy for this.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33951

Post by Hunt »

Steersman wrote:In EBW’s case, if that is in fact a bluff and she doesn’t have that proof then, as I said, I think her reputation will suffer. And that was why I said a “potential” bluff. But if she does – which is, I think, the more likely case – then that is the smoking gun, the winning hand which I think she should lay out for all to see.
That's how it differs from a bluff. A bluff can win the game without itself counting against you. But in this case, even if EBW bluffs a confession out of Watson, et al., she can still be made to look bad if it's found that she's "bluffing." I tend to think she may not be bluffing, since the more I find out about the history of this particular event, the more I suspect the entire affair was premeditated. The SJWs went to Washington expecting this eventuality. I can only imagine the flush of joy they must have felt when Lindsay again reliably delivered.

Michael K Gray
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Re: Jim the Cunt Made Me Do It

#33952

Post by Michael K Gray »

cunt wrote:Not even like pokers a particularly great analogy for this.
Thanks a heap, Fagan.
I think it's your round anyways.
Mine's a pint.
Of Crème de menthe.
In a yard glass.

cunt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33953

Post by cunt »

cunt wrote:
Steersman wrote:
cunt wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
That’s a little rich for my blood so I’ll pass at those table stakes.

However, considering that you apparently have much higher standards and more knowledge of the arcana of poker on which to base your criticism of my assessment, maybe you would care to explain how that statement of hers doesn’t qualify as a potential bluff or as a bet which the other “team” has to match or fold. Or, to mix metaphors, as having let the cat out of the bag.
Because when you're bluffing, you should put your cards out on the table to prove that you're not bluffing. Before even being called on it? I'm struggling to follow your logic here Steersman.
Not having played all that much poker, I’m winging it a little. But my impression of a bluff is to state you’re holding cards that you don’t actually have:
By extension, the term is often used outside the context of poker to describe the act of making threats one cannot execute.
In EBW’s case, if that is in fact a bluff and she doesn’t have that proof then, as I said, I think her reputation will suffer. And that was why I said a “potential” bluff. But if she does – which is, I think, the more likely case – then that is the smoking gun, the winning hand which I think she should lay out for all to see.
You really don't understand poker do you? Here's a hint: if you make a bluff and don't get called on it - you win.
Just so this is clear. You don't necessarily have to show your own cards when everybody else folds.

Hunt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33954

Post by Hunt »

Hey "flush of joy." I made a fucking pun! I mean a pucking fun! Or...

JackSkeptic
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33955

Post by JackSkeptic »

Skep tickle wrote:
welch wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:<blah blah blah from FtB re FtBcon>
I'm for ignoring the entire fucking thing. You know what it will be, so why waste the effort. They'll put up transcripts for the more masochistic, but fuck, unless they devote a session to how big an asshole I am, all it's going to be is the spoken word version of their written idiocy. So stupid, only slower. Fuck that.

and if they ARE doing a session on how big an asshole I am, I hope I can review the notes, they'll probably miss some important bits.
I think it's an interesting idea. Misses out on several of the high points of attending a conference in-person, but on the flip side is more available to more people at much lower cost (costs including $, time, even CO2).

I'll be interested to see how they do with it, and that the content will be recorded for posterity as it occurs - including, potentially, people speaking on topics they have little to no background in (which seems to happen more than infrequently around them, but the audience is usually relatively small, limited in ability to fact-check real-time, & the online version doesn't come out for weeks).

Interested, too, to get a sense of how they're moderating he Q&A and how they handle the inevitable difficult or challenging questions, the people who go off-script, etc.
The fact check issue will be huge I think. They often spout nonsense (Watson in her Evo Psyc talk)and there can now be timely responses. Also I often criticise them for not 'getting a cam' and doing meets online rather than wasting money and spewing Co2 so I credit them for having a go at it.

My main issue is it will be extremely boring. Unreliable data, cherry picking and personal anecdotes given as fact to back up their beliefs. There will be nothing new. The only hope of any interesting conversation may be from some outside of FtB who are capable of rational discussion without getting into a fit of wobbly rage every time someone disagrees with them on their core beliefs.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33956

Post by Steersman »

cunt wrote: <snip>
You really don't understand poker do you? Here's a hint: if you make a bluff and don't get called on it - you win.
I said I didn’t.

But for EBW to be making that accusation and then not delivering on it – even if she has the goods – is still going to leave a bad taste; many will quite reasonably think that she was in fact bluffing. Maybe an acceptable policy in a game of cards; not so much elsewhere.

But I’ll agree that poker may not be the best analogy – at least for most versions of the game – as the hand in poker can end without anyone else knowing what cards were really held. Seemingly not applicable in EBW's case.

cunt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33957

Post by cunt »

Michael K Gray wrote:
cunt wrote:Not even like pokers a particularly great analogy for this.
Thanks a heap, Fagan.
I think it's your round anyways.
Mine's a pint.
Of Crème de menthe.
In a yard glass.
Sorry mate, but it's not. About that pint. I'll be right back, bunch of chavs hanging around me lorry.

Hunt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33958

Post by Hunt »

Here, Steersman, this is all you really need to know:

[youtube]Jj4nJ1YEAp4[/youtube]

Michael K Gray
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33959

Post by Michael K Gray »

cunt wrote:Just so this is clear. You don't necessarily have to show your own cards when everybody else folds.
Subsection 23, para 45, item VII of the Texas "Holdem-all" rules clearly states that anyone with a phony nym starting with "Stears", "Myk", "Just" is required to reveal their bluffing hands on penalty of forfeiture.
It is the rules of International Poker. Don't complain to me.

Ask poker-champion Victoria Coren.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/ ... 68x699.jpg

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#33960

Post by Steersman »

Hunt wrote:Hey "flush of joy." I made a fucking pun! I mean a pucking fun! Or...
:-) Beats a full house? ....

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