Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[JackSkeptic]

Copy here for the record to Nugents page:



‘tina: Well, I suppose we should expect more of this sort of thing from now on…’

Yep the Troll is now well fed, nice job Michael. Also well done for ensuring people milk it for everything they can get out of it. You triggered the Streisand Effect falling over yourself to show what a bunch of terrible people we are.

The Pyt is not a Dictatorship it works as a Democracy. People discuss and give opinions before action is taken, unless clearly illegal. Like adults do. You know that as you have been told time and again. There is a price to pay for freedom and trolls is one of them.

I know some of you can’t grasp that as you live in your cotton wall echo chamber where no dissent is allowed. But in my world free thought and open discussion matters. It really matters. It is not something I stick on a name badge and loudly proclaim to the world. It is not a virtual castle where the walls are sealed from dissent. A castle where I can spit on everyone from on high without recourse. For me free thought and open discussion is REAL and it MATTERS.

This is what happened (evidence still there) :

1. Troll posts comment about women and cooking recipes hoping to get us to think it was hilarious, to warm us up.

2. Troll got called on. He failed.

3. Troll posts the picture as his Coup de Grace. Again, hoping by then we will be in the mood to find humour in it. We didn’t, I was personally disgusted. I was also angry as I knew it would be used against us by the dishonest, no matter what we did. I did not need the Randi Million to work that out and that was commented on at the time.

4. Troll universally condemned. At this point nothing could be done anyway, no admins. As people are rationalists and the Pit is known for no censorship various solutions were commented on from keeping it there to full deletion. The troll will have screen-capped it by now anyway. No drama (where did you get that from?)

5. Admin arrives (we have one and he is not there 24/7) and he immediately drops the tags removing the picture view. The evidence was kept and no memory holes, we hate them. There is no reason anyone should use the link.

6. It was obvious it came from possibly one or two people and the timing too coincidental to not suspect it was aimed at derailing any discussions here. ISP checked and confirmed. No surprise there, especially as he clearly believed his plan would work to make us think his picture was funny. Only a few people I know are as deluded as that.

Michael point 6 was openly discussed on the forums, even your name was mentioned to help us find who it might be. You must have read it, why did you not mention it at all? Please explain that to me.

7. With amazing speed and, if in the UK like me, very early in the morning Nugent manages to produce a l0ng piece condemning the PIT for:

1. Having a troll

2. Dealing with it.

In what sort of lala land do people live in that can twist the narrative to such an extend that the VICTIM (us) gets blamed instead of the perpetrator. How does that fit with your SJW narrative? What sort of deluded dogmatism thinks that is acceptable?

What sort of gullible mind claiming to be open to discussion grabs the opportunity CLEARLY intended by the troll.

We were set up. We did not fall for it but some of you, in your desperate need to throw poo, gleefully accepted a disgusting act to further your aims. You should be ashamed of yourselves and I am deeply disappointed that some of you are blaming us and not taking the troll to task and fully supporting us in this.

I thought the picture was disgusting, how can you look at yourselves taking advantage of it being posted? What moral compass guides you in that? How can any ideology justify that?

You have lost any claim to any moral authority. I will not answer to the likes of any of you unless you act like adults and accept responsibility for yourselves before you jump to be the moral arbiters of others. How dare you question me and others before you put your own house in order and your attitudes well behind you.

[JackSkeptic]

So?
Are we getting a band together or what?

Senor Beagle on drums, :rimshot:

Erik on bass,

Phil on keyboards,

I think bhoytony plays guitar.:character-beavisbutthead:

I can play lead!

http://i.imgur.com/1pDkiib.jpg

Not guitar, just the lead. :doh:

Haven't we got, like , 10 drummers? Or are 9 of those responsible for changing light bulbs?

[TedDahlberg]

We all speak out minds, sometimes robustly, it's the way it is here.

Indeed. Jack robustly called me stupid. I was traumatised.

I did apologise, well notpology. As I've never used that word before I wanted to slip it in.

Ruh-ruh-ruh-rapeghost!

[youtube]JpDVeq4t4h0[/youtube]

[JackSkeptic]

We all speak out minds, sometimes robustly, it's the way it is here.

Indeed. Jack robustly called me stupid. I was traumatised.

I did apologise, well notpology. As I've never used that word before I wanted to slip it in.

Ruh-ruh-ruh-rapeghost!

[youtube]JpDVeq4t4h0[/youtube]

Oooo errr Missus.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

The guy behind the drums? Ramy Ali. Jordanian. Muslim parents. Staunch atheist. Coolest guy ever!

Diversity, I tell you!

[TedDahlberg]

As the Pyt's resident drummer (not joking, I use Tama, and everything), I'm now waiting for the drummer jokes. They'd bloody better be new ones, though, I'm marking you fuckers on originality...

How do you get a drummer off of your porch?
Pay him 10 bucks for the pizza.

(Weak copy/pasta hack, I just wanted to join in!)

Heard it, 2003... :P

Although I am open to offers of pizza.

How about some coffee?

[codelette]

'Pitter, change your ways...
http://i.imgur.com/3TbcYat.png

[codelette]

What the spic is wrong with the image size? Godammit!
Here's the link:

[JackSkeptic]

Re moderation on blogs - I only ask that the moderation policy be stated up front; erik has done that. It's his space, he gets to do with it what he wants, including ban at will. (Slymepit is up front, too: most anything goes.)

What does irk me is when bloggers or admins aren't up front about their approach, and clearly the worst is when they lie or are hypocritical. Like editing posts without including a note that editing was done, or editing posts to contain something quite different from the poster's original content (Crommunist has done this), or allowing in-group to do stuff that you'd ban other people for (A+ seems to favor this approach). Or when they identify with "freethought"(FtB) or call themselves "skeptics" (Skepchick) or say they "apply skepticism and critical thinking to everything" (A+), then go to great lengths to keep out those who dissent or who challenge them. That is what steams me (and why I'm here).

I have little interest in commenting at Erik's because I prefer any conversation to be central for ease of reference. That does not mean I would not though, assuming I had anything useful to say. As for policies I tend to take them with a pinch of salt too. I go with what happens rather than what is stated as policy. You only need to look at A+ forums to see how policy is substantially different from reality.

[TedDahlberg]

'Pitter, change your ways...
http://i.imgur.com/3TbcYat.png

Such a shame about the Twitter character limit so he couldn't finish his sentence with "or I find out that I'm wrong" like he obviously meant to, like any rational person would.

[JackSkeptic]

'Pitter, change your ways...
http://i.imgur.com/3TbcYat.png

Michael, you convinced yourself a long time ago. I'm in the UK and was very open to discussion and I'm aware how tough these things can be. I know you sure do too. Now the well has been so badly poisoned I can't drink from it. You did that, not anyone here.

Unless you stop playing the blame game it will get nowhere. You must know that is not an effective way to negotiate. Focus on common issues and understanding. Spot the Trolls ( they have a few you found one yesterday) and do not assume good faith just because you agree with their ideology.

But you must know this with your background which keeps making me wonder what are you really trying to achieve here and why so quick to judge?

[JackSkeptic]

If anything will work we need someone less partisan. But of course FtB rejected that. Not one of them accepted, they want a biased referee as it's all about winning for them not finding common ground.

I'm not interested in playing petty politics, skeptisism is too important to me to do that.

[codelette]

And that, my pretties, is the reason that my half-nigger spic cunt persona doesn't give a fuck about what an Irish privileged white man think about the shit that I write on this forum.

(Did I cash in all my oppression points?)

[JackSkeptic]

And that, my pretties, is the reason that my half-nigger spic cunt persona doesn't give a fuck about what an Irish privileged white man think about the shit that I write on this forum.

(Did I cash in all my oppression points?)

You may have missed one or two.

[codelette]

fuck, yeah! I forgot "from a colonial territory".


:D

[EdwardGemmer]

The guy behind the drums? Ramy Ali. Jordanian. Muslim parents. Staunch atheist. Coolest guy ever!

Diversity, I tell you!

I hope you understand he is lower than you on the privilege wheel so you aren't allowed to do things like talk to him or make jokes or criticize anything he does. This is just Social Justice 101.

[JackSkeptic]

fuck, yeah! I forgot "from a colonial territory".


:D

You should write it all down, I'm sure they do. Have a checklist:) Missing an opportunity to be repressed is not to be taken lightly.

[codelette]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

[TedDahlberg]

'Pitter, change your ways...
http://i.imgur.com/3TbcYat.png

Michael, you convinced yourself a long time ago. I'm in the UK and was very open to discussion and I'm aware how tough these things can be. I know you sure do too. Now the well has been so badly poisoned I can't drink from it. You did that, not anyone here.

Unless you stop playing the blame game it will get nowhere. You must know that is not an effective way to negotiate. Focus on common issues and understanding. Spot the Trolls ( they have a few you found one yesterday) and do not assume good faith just because you agree with their ideology.

But you must know this with your background which keeps making me wonder what are you really trying to achieve here and why so quick to judge?

I find it very frustrating when people state things categorically without leaving any room for the possibility of error. I realise that it makes their position more easily defensible, but in the end it is not honest. Take the existence of god(s) for example; I don't believe for a second any such things exists - but I could be wrong! Now admitting that the matter is not settled beyond any doubt whatsoever obviously gives a religious person a point of attack. But that is the price I have to pay for complete honesty in my arguments, and I have to defend my position with better arguments than "I am right, let's proceed from that".

Outright saying "either I will convince my opponent that I am right or I will give up on them as a hopeless case" leaves out such a huge third option (or fourth, that both are wrong) that I cannot take a person stating that seriously. Either they don't understand why such a standpoint is incompatible with a discussion that aims to change anyone's mind, in which case I'm doubtful that any discussion will be worthwhile. Or they do understand, in which case I'm sure any discussion will not be worthwhile.

[JackSkeptic]

The guy behind the drums? Ramy Ali. Jordanian. Muslim parents. Staunch atheist. Coolest guy ever!

Diversity, I tell you!

I hope you understand he is lower than you on the privilege wheel so you aren't allowed to do things like talk to him or make jokes or criticize anything he does. This is just Social Justice 101.

Phil is French, that gives him at least 50 victim points, well ahead of the drummer. I need a racist hat.

[EdwardGemmer]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

Having a job is clearly a sign of being a gender traitor.

[codelette]

From here, Phil looks like a mutt. I say he can cash those as oppression points.

[JackSkeptic]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

You have 11 toes or something? You can go for abelism then. Gets maximum points too, everyone on A+ goes for it no matter how fit they are. It's a winner every time.

[codelette]

Fuck yeah, the ableist shit! I'm neurodivergent or neurofucked or however they call it.
This is like playing Pokemon! No wonder McBoobquake was so into it.

[EdwardGemmer]

Fuck yeah, the ableist shit! I'm neurodivergent or neurofucked or however they call it.
This is like playing Pokemon! No wonder McBoobquake was so into it.

Tell them you suffer from Explosive Orgasm Syndrome.

[TedDahlberg]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

Oh, edumacation. (He said with a dismissive sneer.) Now there's privilege with a cherry on top. What makes you think you're better at engineering just because you went to some privileged school to study about it? Don't you know that SJ 101 contains a week-long segment on building houses in Skyrim? Top that!


OK, I might be feeling a tad sarcastic right about now…

[JackSkeptic]

From here, Phil looks like a mutt. I say he can cash those as oppression points.

That gets him to 60 points, he's doing good, well ahead of me. I feel so privileged now it's horrible, I have no chance of sympathy. Maybe I should cut a leg off. That will get me 30 points, half way.

[codelette]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

Having a job is clearly a sign of being a gender traitor.

Here:

( I'm part of the elite class :lol: )

[codelette]

PS. That was on that Tibledoo blog about Mallory Nasrallah being a sufferer of Stockholm Syndrome...

[EdwardGemmer]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

Oh, edumacation. (He said with a dismissive sneer.) Now there's privilege with a cherry on top. What makes you think you're better at engineering just because you went to some privileged school to study about it? Don't you know that SJ 101 contains a week-long segment on building houses in Skyrim? Top that!


OK, I might be feeling a tad sarcastic right about now…

Does it include a bow and arrow class? I could never hit those dragons, probably due to the fact that I had a female character and she had weak arms.

[codelette]

PPS. I brought the engineer tidbit to the table because somebody else mentioned the fact that it was so difficult for women to go into science because of sexism and blah blah blah...you get my drift...

[JackSkeptic]

Fuck yeah, the ableist shit! I'm neurodivergent or neurofucked or however they call it.
This is like playing Pokemon! No wonder McBoobquake was so into it.

Say something like Neuropathological. If anyone questions you accuse them of gaslighting and triggering a week of panic attacks and gluttony, only relived by watching TV every day and taking regular lie downs. Works every time, guaranteed.

[EdwardGemmer]

I need to read more SJW forums, maybe there's some oppression that I'm overlooking and I need to claim.
Although, I was once accused of being privileged by skeptifem because I declared I was an engineer...

Having a job is clearly a sign of being a gender traitor.

Here:

( I'm part of the elite class :lol: )

Back before I understood how crazy people get over all of this, I was discussing on Skepchick the idea of rape culture and whether someone could feel morally obligated to have sex. I posited that say a wife has the kids go to the sitter,gets something sexy, has a nice dinner and bottle of wine prepared for a surprise night with her hubby. Would it be wrong for her to feel disappointed if her hubby showed up and decided to watch the game instead? Yes, I was told, because she is promoting rape culture.

[EdwardGemmer]

PPS. I brought the engineer tidbit to the table because somebody else mentioned the fact that it was so difficult for women to go into science because of sexism and blah blah blah...you get my drift...

I understood this without you saying it, but then, I have a functioning brain.

[JackSkeptic]

Fuck yeah, the ableist shit! I'm neurodivergent or neurofucked or however they call it.
This is like playing Pokemon! No wonder McBoobquake was so into it.

Tell them you suffer from Explosive Orgasm Syndrome.

LOL.

[codelette]

Back before I understood how crazy people get over all of this, I was discussing on Skepchick the idea of rape culture and whether someone could feel morally obligated to have sex. I posited that say a wife has the kids go to the sitter,gets something sexy, has a nice dinner and bottle of wine prepared for a surprise night with her hubby. Would it be wrong for her to feel disappointed if her hubby showed up and decided to watch the game instead? Yes, I was told, because she is promoting rape culture.

Rape culture is everywhere, I imagine it is even inside your breakfast cereal.
The other day I read a blog by a feminist saying that this ad (see below) promoted rape culture:
[youtube]v_CgPsGY5Mw[/youtube]

I shit you not...

[JackSkeptic]

PPS. I brought the engineer tidbit to the table because somebody else mentioned the fact that it was so difficult for women to go into science because of sexism and blah blah blah...you get my drift...

I have a close female family member doing Astro Physics at University. I asked her about feminism and what not. She said 'I'm too busy for all that' and then said her class is about 40% female. Not 50% but better than is was and she gets NO sexism at all from anyone.

[EdwardGemmer]

Back before I understood how crazy people get over all of this, I was discussing on Skepchick the idea of rape culture and whether someone could feel morally obligated to have sex. I posited that say a wife has the kids go to the sitter,gets something sexy, has a nice dinner and bottle of wine prepared for a surprise night with her hubby. Would it be wrong for her to feel disappointed if her hubby showed up and decided to watch the game instead? Yes, I was told, because she is promoting rape culture.

Rape culture is everywhere, I imagine it is even inside your breakfast cereal.
The other day I read a blog by a feminist saying that this ad (see below) promoted rape culture:
[youtube]v_CgPsGY5Mw[/youtube]

I shit you not...

I only buy aldi's brand cereal for my daughter. Cheaper and no rape promoting toys in the box.

[FrankGrimes]

My wife and I read the "Schrodinger's Rapist" "essay" last night. Now, I'm a little slow on the uptake on this kind of thing so she kindly explained some of it to me. Being a social worker I felt she was better placed than I to decipher the thing.

Maybe it's just her privilege but she thought the whole thing was damned hilarious.

The words she used to describe it were:

- inarticulate/unclear
- not evidence based
- disrespectful
- delusional
- definitely not representative of the general feminist population or reality

Then we laughed a lot about it.

I'm sure over at FTB or A+ she would be shouted down with the standard abuse but it's hard to fathom that people who have experience and knowledge would be marginalized because of it.

[EdwardGemmer]

I'm sure over at FTB or A+ she would be shouted down with the standard abuse but it's hard to fathom that people who have experience and knowledge would be marginalized because of it.

It's bizarre. I'm a public defender in Columbus, so I represent a lot of poor people, mostly racial minorities, plus I'm getting married to a black woman and I have two black kids. I tell those guys to let them know that I'm legitimately interested in racial issues (and crime) only get told I'm entitled and that none of that proves I'm a good person who isn't racist. WTF!? Half the battle over there is trying to get them to treat you like a human being.

[BarnOwl]

'Pitter, change your ways...
http://i.imgur.com/3TbcYat.png

Michael, you convinced yourself a long time ago. I'm in the UK and was very open to discussion and I'm aware how tough these things can be. I know you sure do too. Now the well has been so badly poisoned I can't drink from it. You did that, not anyone here.

Unless you stop playing the blame game it will get nowhere. You must know that is not an effective way to negotiate. Focus on common issues and understanding. Spot the Trolls ( they have a few you found one yesterday) and do not assume good faith just because you agree with their ideology.

But you must know this with your background which keeps making me wonder what are you really trying to achieve here and why so quick to judge?

If all the nasty pushback and "attacks on feminists" are arising from the 'Pyt, I'd like to hear from Nugent what he hopes to achieve with his "Empowering Women" conference in Dublin this year. If a message board that none of the feminists are forced to look at or participate on is such a huge problem in the A/S movement, it stands to reason that this should be addressed by his conference.

Otherwise it just looks like an excuse to wine and dine and party with his friends. Nothing especially wrong with that (ignoring the environmental perspective, for the moment), but let's not pretend it's some grand social justice activism then.

[JackSkeptic]

Another post needing recording at nugents.

'Michael :

Here is another way of looking at the assumption that a troll posted the photograph in order to embarrass the Slymepit members:

If it is the case that the Slymepit is composed only of individual members who are responsible only for their own posts, and there is no collective responsibility, and everybody supports the right of freedom of expression regardless of whether they agree with the content of other members’ posts…

then why would (or how would) the posting of that photo embarrass you?

It must be, must it not, that there is something about the content of the photograph that you believe transcends the factors above?'

Also your post asking if I (remember we are not all one) would think the same if it was posted by a regular member is a valid one and it did come up at the time.

So I will deal with both:

1. Yes I would have the same reaction if it was a regular poster. In fact one poster did far less a month or so back and he was so shamed by the rest of us he left, not to be seen again. The Pit works like a pub, misbehave and people tend to ignore you and you go away. So I would be amazed if a regular poster did post such an image.

2. While we are individuals why would that suggest we think that abrogates any responsibility we have for content? While I do not believe in guilt by association there is a point where that is not valid (such as posting on a Nazi site) While I have great tolerance for diverse views and offence, I have lines too, we all do. It is those lines you seem to ignore. They are subtle but they are there.


The picture posted yesterday was SO obviously a troll (from and FtB supporter) and so obviously dealt with effectively I was gobsmacked at your reaction.

This was the paragraph that got me:

'To me this shows how desensitized some members of the Slymepit have become to the ethics of people who experience empathy and compassion at a level that would make it instantly obvious that this photograph should be removed.'

How did you manage do get to that conclusion? 'Desensitized'? That was offensive and patronising. Morality is not absolute, you do not get to call it on others though a quick scan of a forum where you clearly missed some keys points and misunderstood the subtle nuance of a complex community.

This whole focus on morality is doomed to failure and why there was so much push back. We know where the differences lie. That is evident.

I also posted some comments about this at Slympit and I stand by them. In summary until I see people acting in good faith, stop supposing and poisoning the well and use a bit of old fashioned charity this is going nowhere in my opinion.

FfB already have had offers of discussions, Slympit put several people forward, they never provide one. Not one. They chose you as they know your loaded on their side. Yet we still talk. So who are the ones being honest and willing to discuss here? Who are the immovable ideologues who play petty politics and those who take skeptisism and free thought seriously?

As always I only speak for myself. If you see a common theme it is because what is going on here is all too readily apparent. I smell a stitch up but I still hold some hope I am wrong.

[welch]

Hi all. What a lovely forum you have here. Been lurking for a while and enjoying the conversation. Just thought this would be a good time to jump in seeing as how I'm a drummer.

Fuck off all of you.

@erik, I do gigs every week. At least three. Every single gig I do there is someone who is more than happy to offer up their negative opinion of either my playing, someone else's playing, the whole band, the lighting guy, the FOH guy, the stage guy etc etc. Only last weekend I had a guy tell me after the set that he didn't like me. Thought I was a jerk. Why? Who gives a shit. A few months ago someone told me I needed to smile more. Last week some lady thought my drumming was absolute crap. Apparently the bass player was shit too. In the last month we've been told how we need to improve to "make it big" i.e. "Stop doing all those solos. They are fucked." Insults are a dime a dozen for me.

But you know what? I.do.not.give.a.shit. I will never see these people again. To me it's all fucking funny actually. We all have a big laugh about it.

I think you should do the same.

And BTW I watched the video of you playing bass. Yeah you're fat but shit, you look much cooler than that singer! Fat tends to work with bass players. That singer...... not so much.

Cheers all.

He's over 70 years old. He's a legend in Buffalo, in the Buffalo Music Hall of Fame, has been on MTV, was on the Goo Goo Dolls first three albums. I'm glad all you noticed is that he's a bit plump. See, I'm not upset with you, I just think you're an asshole.

Yeah, because that response just reeks of apathy

[TheMudbrooker]

Not to beat the naked photoshop to death, but Nugent seems to think that Ophelia's face shopped onto a nude picture of an older woman in a completely non-sexual manner is one of the worst crimes imaginable.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ms. Benson pose (in a non-sexual manner) for a nude calandar a couple of years ago?

Granted, there's a world of difference between volunteering for something and having some idiot troll doing a photoshop of you, but outrage over one picture and none over a similar one strikes me as a bit false.

[welch]

Already proven false

...

We'll never agree about whether dissenters are treated fairly there. That's a huge discussion that inevitably boils down to quote mining. There's no light at the end of that tunnel, and no, I'm not going to go back to Pharyngula and defend the pit, I'm not a pitter, I don't think it's defensible as a whole. And if I make the argument that it's defensible at least in part, they will say tough shit, they have too much to answer for, and currently, I'd have to agree with that.


*fwiw, I think you've been pretty reasonable in the exchanges I've read.

Calling us shitstains is hardly defending the position that the 'pit has something of value to offer. That was a nice touch to stay in PZ's good graces. Disappointing to see the difference in tone when you're safe at Pharyngula and when you're arguing here.

The fact that the 'pit allows the occasional grossly offensive post to stand (there really aren't that many compared to the size of the forum) has more to do with holding each poster accountable for their words than a communal endorsement of the message. Same reason there's no edit button: if you say something stupid, you own it. The idea that I, or any other 'pitter, has anything to "answer for" is just illogical. People are responsible for their own words.

Poor Erik is going to run himself ragged sucking up to both side. And I intend to enjoy every minute of watching be the hypocritical turd he is.

[AbsurdWalls]

In a blatant attempt to restore his tarnished status with Ophelia and her chums, Nugent takes issue with the photoshop posted earlier http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/07 ... ked-image/

You think he missed the bit where we all knew it was a plant? Also that it linked to Oolon's isp?

I am a bit disappointed in how people are willing to try to pin this on Oolon.

If you do a search for Noblehawk2 on Google you find a YouTube account that has existed for two years with a history of engagement in this sort of topic (a fan of The Amazing Atheist, etc). So either Oolon has been working on a second identity since before he was even involved with the A/S community (I think I have the timeline right), Oolon is impersonating another real person here (who might be inclined to say "Hey, that's not me!"), or Noblehawk2 is not Oolon.

Intelligence is normally-distributed, it should be no surprise when a few people come here to demonstrate that. It was a shitty thing to have done and it appears that Noblehawk2 is suitably ashamed, judging from the lack of any attempt from him to justify or defend what he did.

Not a troll or a plant. Just an asshole.

[AnonymousCowherd]

I'm not letting them have power over me, and I'm not crying over it, but a lot of people do so I stand up to assholes like that. I don't like to see people getting picked on. It isn't just about me. It's about what I know it does to other people. It's called empathy.

Well, not really. If you don't have the same feelings as the other person, it's more likely sympathy, not empathy. In normal conversation, who cares?, but here calling it "empathy" undermines your claim that you are unaffected.

There's nothing wrong with helping friends or allies for whatever reason if you feel they are being "ganged up" on, but it assumes they can't look after themselves, that the problem is likely to cause them real hurt, and that you can fix it with your intervention. Great if your mate needs a hand in a bar fight. Not so obvious when someone whose blog you follow gets into a public argument on the internet. Why assume harm? Why assume internet "pros" like PZ or OB need your help? Can't OB whine and ask for dontions without you? Can't PZ simply send forth the mighty Whored to smite his enemies?

These people only need your help to fight a proxy war that they themselves pretend remain aloof from, but which they constantly stoke and inflame in order to drive traffic to their sites or at least get someone to pay attention, any attention, to them. Yes, the 'pit helps in that too. PZ and Hensley even mockingly thanked us for the traffic - so you can be sure we are having all the wrong effect as far as they are concerned - reverse psychology, how does it work?

It just gets sillier when you want to intervene (supposedly) on behalf of a "group" as large, and diverse, as "<insert oppressed group here>" How on earth do you know what "wo-people" or "tint minus folks" want? What it would even mean to say that such a large group "wants" something - apart from what the usually self-appointed spokesperdaughter for that group wants? Sure as hell neither PZ nor the rest of the Minnesota Mafia speak for <insert oppressed group here>.

[welch]

Nice try asshole. But that's not what calling you and your side out for being hypocritical is about. It is really quite simple, and as you are a bass player, simple should be right up your alley.

That was pure evil. Gonna use it tonight at rehearsal.

BASS SOLO!!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Apples]

And that, my pretties, is the reason that my half-nigger spic cunt persona doesn't give a fuck about what an Irish privileged white man think about the shit that I write on this forum.

(Did I cash in all my oppression points?)

http://androidspin.com/wp-content/uploa ... f-cash.jpg

[Lurkion]

Copy here for the record to Nugents page:



‘tina: Well, I suppose we should expect more of this sort of thing from now on…’

Yep the Troll is now well fed, nice job Michael. Also well done for ensuring people milk it for everything they can get out of it. You triggered the Streisand Effect falling over yourself to show what a bunch of terrible people we are.

The Pyt is not a Dictatorship it works as a Democracy. People discuss and give opinions before action is taken, unless clearly illegal. Like adults do. You know that as you have been told time and again. There is a price to pay for freedom and trolls is one of them.

I know some of you can’t grasp that as you live in your cotton wall echo chamber where no dissent is allowed. But in my world free thought and open discussion matters. It really matters. It is not something I stick on a name badge and loudly proclaim to the world. It is not a virtual castle where the walls are sealed from dissent. A castle where I can spit on everyone from on high without recourse. For me free thought and open discussion is REAL and it MATTERS.

This is what happened (evidence still there) :

1. Troll posts comment about women and cooking recipes hoping to get us to think it was hilarious, to warm us up.

2. Troll got called on. He failed.

3. Troll posts the picture as his Coup de Grace. Again, hoping by then we will be in the mood to find humour in it. We didn’t, I was personally disgusted. I was also angry as I knew it would be used against us by the dishonest, no matter what we did. I did not need the Randi Million to work that out and that was commented on at the time.

4. Troll universally condemned. At this point nothing could be done anyway, no admins. As people are rationalists and the Pit is known for no censorship various solutions were commented on from keeping it there to full deletion. The troll will have screen-capped it by now anyway. No drama (where did you get that from?)

5. Admin arrives (we have one and he is not there 24/7) and he immediately drops the tags removing the picture view. The evidence was kept and no memory holes, we hate them. There is no reason anyone should use the link.

6. It was obvious it came from possibly one or two people and the timing too coincidental to not suspect it was aimed at derailing any discussions here. ISP checked and confirmed. No surprise there, especially as he clearly believed his plan would work to make us think his picture was funny. Only a few people I know are as deluded as that.

Michael point 6 was openly discussed on the forums, even your name was mentioned to help us find who it might be. You must have read it, why did you not mention it at all? Please explain that to me.

7. With amazing speed and, if in the UK like me, very early in the morning Nugent manages to produce a l0ng piece condemning the PIT for:

1. Having a troll

2. Dealing with it.

In what sort of lala land do people live in that can twist the narrative to such an extend that the VICTIM (us) gets blamed instead of the perpetrator. How does that fit with your SJW narrative? What sort of deluded dogmatism thinks that is acceptable?

What sort of gullible mind claiming to be open to discussion grabs the opportunity CLEARLY intended by the troll.

We were set up. We did not fall for it but some of you, in your desperate need to throw poo, gleefully accepted a disgusting act to further your aims. You should be ashamed of yourselves and I am deeply disappointed that some of you are blaming us and not taking the troll to task and fully supporting us in this.

I thought the picture was disgusting, how can you look at yourselves taking advantage of it being posted? What moral compass guides you in that? How can any ideology justify that?

You have lost any claim to any moral authority. I will not answer to the likes of any of you unless you act like adults and accept responsibility for yourselves before you jump to be the moral arbiters of others. How dare you question me and others before you put your own house in order and your attitudes well behind you.

I like this comment. I just posted one but it sortof half-assed. I've given up on Michael; his whole new post is disingenuous. He's not in it for discussions.

[JackSkeptic]

My wife and I read the "Schrodinger's Rapist" "essay" last night. Now, I'm a little slow on the uptake on this kind of thing so she kindly explained some of it to me. Being a social worker I felt she was better placed than I to decipher the thing.

Maybe it's just her privilege but she thought the whole thing was damned hilarious.

The words she used to describe it were:

- inarticulate/unclear
- not evidence based
- disrespectful
- delusional
- definitely not representative of the general feminist population or reality

Then we laughed a lot about it.

I'm sure over at FTB or A+ she would be shouted down with the standard abuse but it's hard to fathom that people who have experience and knowledge would be marginalized because of it.

They seem adept at dismissing and denigrating experts. Perhaps as they know they will be called on what they say. For them their personal experiences and feelings counts for everything so anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong....just because.

Welcome by the way.

[Lurkion]

My wife and I read the "Schrodinger's Rapist" "essay" last night. Now, I'm a little slow on the uptake on this kind of thing so she kindly explained some of it to me. Being a social worker I felt she was better placed than I to decipher the thing.

Maybe it's just her privilege but she thought the whole thing was damned hilarious.

The words she used to describe it were:

- inarticulate/unclear
- not evidence based
- disrespectful
- delusional
- definitely not representative of the general feminist population or reality

Then we laughed a lot about it.

I'm sure over at FTB or A+ she would be shouted down with the standard abuse but it's hard to fathom that people who have experience and knowledge would be marginalized because of it.

EVERYONE WELCOME FRANK GRIMES!

I hope he knows the traditional greeting is FUCK OFF.

[Lurkion]

FRANK GRIMES LOOKIT THIS

[daisyw]

I tried to read Mr Nugent's entire blog post tonight but I could not handle his constant whinging. Was whoever posted the image banned at all? And what kind of image was it?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just trying to find out why he wrote that blog post.

[Patrick]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 111#p72626

Wowbagger: "Well, at least those two are relatively succint in their dishonesty. If I ever have to read another Justicar multipage waffle-fest I'll probably pass out. He's posted enough handwaving and tapdancing equivocation-fests to qualify for the PhD in Theology."

Didn't he flounce?

Setar: "well with all of this talk about having some sort of conversation, I want to have one. only instead of Lee Moore false-neutral bullshit I want one where we discuss the slymepit, their overlap with the right-wing/libertarian crowd and why exactly we don't just call them unskeptical and have done with them =/"

Interesting how keen they are these days to claim that we're all right-wing/libertarian. Because those are views a lot of people disagree with; quick, tar them with the same brush!

It's not just that a lot of people disagree with libertarianism, it's that they themselves do. Libertarians are big on personal responsibility, a big no-no especially on A+. Eventually (if it hasn't happened already) they'll just say "libertarians are victim-blamers".

How do they equate libertarians with right wingers? My right wing friends think I'm a leftist for supporting gay marriage, legalizing drugs, ending all our wars, and immigration reform.

The real differences I see from reading Nugent's blog intermittently over the past few days is between the authoritarian views of many in the FTB/A+/Skepchick camp and the anti-authoritarianism of most who identify with the Slymepit.

I think it's a matter of perspective, from where the FTB and A+ crowd sits(far left) everyone else is to the right. They've gone so far left that they've started to adopt some right-wing ideologies such as authoritarianism and intolerance of dissent.

Authoritarianism and intolerance of dissent are orthogonal to the left-right spectrum, as clearly demonstrated by the self-styled progressives at FTB/A+/Skepchick. The World's Smallest Political Quiz is a good visual representation of this. While simple, it does show how the sets of views associated with both the left and right (particularly in the US) are historically contingent rather than logically consistent.

Sanctimonious ideologues of every political persuasion are willing to shut down dissent wherever they have the power to do so. This gross lack of respect for free speech is one of the most damning condemnations of those bloggers referred to as the FC(n) here. They have shown their true stripes and should never be trusted with positions of responsibility or influence in the larger skeptical and atheist communities.

[JackSkeptic]

In a blatant attempt to restore his tarnished status with Ophelia and her chums, Nugent takes issue with the photoshop posted earlier http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/07 ... ked-image/

You think he missed the bit where we all knew it was a plant? Also that it linked to Oolon's isp?

I am a bit disappointed in how people are willing to try to pin this on Oolon.

If you do a search for Noblehawk2 on Google you find a YouTube account that has existed for two years with a history of engagement in this sort of topic (a fan of The Amazing Atheist, etc). So either Oolon has been working on a second identity since before he was even involved with the A/S community (I think I have the timeline right), Oolon is impersonating another real person here (who might be inclined to say "Hey, that's not me!"), or Noblehawk2 is not Oolon.

Intelligence is normally-distributed, it should be no surprise when a few people come here to demonstrate that. It was a shitty thing to have done and it appears that Noblehawk2 is suitably ashamed, judging from the lack of any attempt from him to justify or defend what he did.

Not a troll or a plant. Just an asshole.

The ISP was the same and it went to the county Oolon is known to live. But yes, it may not be Oolon.

[JackSkeptic]

I tried to read Mr Nugent's entire blog post tonight but I could not handle his constant whinging. Was whoever posted the image banned at all? And what kind of image was it?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just trying to find out why he wrote that blog post.

My post about lays out the skeleton of it.

[JackSkeptic]

I mean 'above' not about.

[daisyw]

I tried to read Mr Nugent's entire blog post tonight but I could not handle his constant whinging. Was whoever posted the image banned at all? And what kind of image was it?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just trying to find out why he wrote that blog post.

My post about lays out the skeleton of it.

Oh, ok. Thank you, Jack. I will find your post and read it now.

[JackSkeptic]

I tried to read Mr Nugent's entire blog post tonight but I could not handle his constant whinging. Was whoever posted the image banned at all? And what kind of image was it?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm just trying to find out why he wrote that blog post.

My post about lays out the skeleton of it.

Oh, ok. Thank you, Jack. I will find your post and read it now.

It all happened yesterday so you should see stuff actually posted a few pages back if you want.