Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

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Apples
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9541

Post by Apples »

decius wrote:Thunderfoot has a new vid. :)

QJeX6F-Q63I
Discussed starting here viewtopic.php?p=75787#p75787

welch
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9542

Post by welch »

decius wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: Forgive me, I thought I was talking to some Joe on the internet. Now I realize you are a DA, who sat through the case, saw all the evidence and have weighed it carefully in your great legal mind, I can only offer my apologies.

Also, I have no "anxieties" about anal sex; to me, though, rape would seem to include anal penetration, whether by a penis or other object. Why your hangups about penises?
I'm not, but we both have the right to our opinion.
In this case, I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime and that we should be really careful to lump together rapists with drunk teenagers who engage in sexual misconduct, especially when the nature of the events couldn't be objectively established and in the total absence of signs of violence.
A rush to drag people to the gallows never helped any society.
This is fascinating. First, I'd like to know what it was you actually read about the case, given that what I read from multiple sources certainly showed more than "he said/she said".

Secondly, so if a group of drunken teenagers has sex with someone who is also too drunk to give consent, that's what? Youthful hijinks?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9543

Post by EdwardGemmer »

debaser71 wrote:Are non consensual hand jobs rape? Can women even rape men at all? Rape by envelopment? Vagina/mouth/hand around penis?
Are non consensual handjobs rape? In Ohio, no. Still illegal, but not rape.

Can women rape men? Yes. Any nonconsensual penetration is can be rape.

Vagina/mouth around penis? Rape. Hand? Gross sexual imposition.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9544

Post by decius »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
decius wrote:
welch wrote: Wait, unwanted penetration with a penis is bad, but fingers are just youthful hijinks?

Never implied that.
Bullshit. You said that including finger penetration of the vagina within the definition of "rape" was something Iran would do, not a Western democracy.
I stand by that. With the new loose definition applied, you no longer have a word that specifically distinguishes forcible coitus from other forms of sexual assault with penetration. Since sexual intercourse comes with an added layer of possible aggravating consequences (such as unwanted pregnancy or VDs), I find this wilful confusion unhelpful and self-serving.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9545

Post by welch »

decius wrote:
windy wrote:
Why would you expect "signs of violence" if the victim was incapacitated? This seems like a clear-cut case of taking advantage of a victim who was "blotto", as opposed to the alarmists who see drunken rape on the Big Bang Theory.

And weren't you arguing not so long ago that 'the system works' with regards to rape convictions, and nobody gets convicted based on finger-pointing? ;)
Sign of violence would make it a clear-cut case. But I agree, her being "blotto" would also make no difference. However, in my opinion, the handjob issue and other conflicting statements cast doubts on the alleged incapacitation, as well.

The other time, I was arguing that the figures suggest a ratio of reports to convictions comparable to that of any other violent crime, therefore it couldn't be said that finger-pointing was normally sufficient to convict, as some MRAs claimed.
Wow, more data. So an sms bragging about a handjob is "proof" but similar digital images showing her to be unconcious is not. As is the eyewitness testimony about fingers in the vagina, which after all, isn't bad. it's just hijinks.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9546

Post by welch »

decius wrote:
welch wrote: Wait, unwanted penetration with a penis is bad, but fingers are just youthful hijinks?

Never implied that.
actually, you kind of did. Penetration with a penis is rape, with fingers is "just" sexual assault. that and the whole "drunken teenagers" bit.

why the downgrade?

Skep tickle
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9547

Post by Skep tickle »

Mostly caught up, from ~15 pages back. Going back before the Knife Disagreement to the law just passed by the senate in North Dakota:

1) It hasn't yet been signed into law by the governor. He should be receiving it on Monday.

2) It bans abortion after the heartbeat is detected, without specifying (as far as I can tell) the # of weeks, nor whether or not an ultrasound has to be done to determine whether the heartbeat is detectable. Some are interpreting it to mean an ultrasound must be done if abortion is being considered. That adds further delay.

The heartbeat would become visible by ultrasound sometimes during the 4th week after fertilization, during the 6th week after last menses.

2) Dating is most commonly (by tradition) from the last menstrual period (LMP), which is called the "gestational age", but especially when referring to organ development can sometimes be from fertilization, so it's important to clarify which. See, for example, the top of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_age

3) Re timing of heartbeat: from this Wikipedia entry, which doesn't appear to have been edited by PZ's radfem army yet (bolding added, here, by me):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_d ... ent#Week_6
Week 6

Gestational age: 5 weeks and 0 days until 5 weeks and 6 days old. 36–42 days from last menstruation.

Embryonic age: Week nr [sic] 4. 3 weeks old. 22–28 days from fertilization
..[sic]

The embryo measures 4 mm (1/8 inch) in length and begins to curve into a C shape.
The heart bulges, further develops, and begins to beat in a regular rhythm. Septum primum appears.[6]
Branchial arches, grooves which will form structures of the face and neck, form.
The neural tube closes.
The ears begin to form as otic pits.
Arm buds and a tail are visible.
Pulmonary primordium, the first traits of the lung appear.[6]
Hepatic plate, the first traits of the liver appear.[6]
Buccopharyngeal membrane ruptures. This is the future mouth.[6]
Cystic diverticulum, which will become the gallbladder, and dorsal pancreatic bud, which will become the pancreas appear.[6]
Urorectal septum begins to form. Thus, the rectal and urinary passageways become separated.[6]
Anterior and posterior horns differentiate in the spinal cord [6]
Spleen appears.[6]
Ureteric buds appear.[6]
Of course, a heartbeat first being detectable doesn't mean something magic has happened compared with the day before, when it wasn't detectable. It's all part of the steady progression in embryonic development; what's visible is the rhythmic contraction of a group of cells, a tube at that point, that developed into myocytes, with a subgroup that developed into a pacemaker region & coordinates the cellular contractions.

And, of course, as ultrasounds get better, rhythmic cellular contraction might be detectable earlier & earlier.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9548

Post by welch »

decius wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
decius wrote:
welch wrote: Wait, unwanted penetration with a penis is bad, but fingers are just youthful hijinks?

Never implied that.
Bullshit. You said that including finger penetration of the vagina within the definition of "rape" was something Iran would do, not a Western democracy.
I stand by that. With the new loose definition applied, you no longer have a word that specifically distinguishes forcible coitus from other forms of sexual assault with penetration. Since sexual intercourse comes with an added layer of possible aggravating consequences (such as unwanted pregnancy or VDs), I find this wilful confusion unhelpful and self-serving.
So forcible anal/vaginal fisting, or penetration with a large object like a baseball bat, even though such thing can cause unrepairable damage is not rape?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9549

Post by windy »

Speaking of women and gaming, I hadn't heard that Pac-Man was designed to appeal to girls:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/gdc-201 ... m-pac-man/
In fact Iwatani was guided by female tastes – literally – throughout the early stages. “Girls like to eat – like my wife likes to eat a lot,” he said. “And this gave me the idea of Pac-Man eating the whole time.” The enemy ghosts, too, were made cute “because girls like that.”
"Girls like to eat" :D What would Sarkeesian make of this?

decius
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9550

Post by decius »

welch wrote: So forcible anal/vaginal fisting, or penetration with a large object like a baseball bat, even though such thing can cause unrepairable damage is not rape?


Look, I'm stuck to pre-2012 jargon, it appears. But it still seems more precise than conflating fingers with penises and deadly weapons.
In 2012, the FBI changed their definition from "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will." to "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

EdwardGemmer
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9551

Post by EdwardGemmer »

In Ohio, intercourse, oral sex, and digital penetration is all rape is not consensual.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9552

Post by Submariner »

welch wrote:
decius wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
decius wrote:
welch wrote: Wait, unwanted penetration with a penis is bad, but fingers are just youthful hijinks?

Never implied that.
Bullshit. You said that including finger penetration of the vagina within the definition of "rape" was something Iran would do, not a Western democracy.
I stand by that. With the new loose definition applied, you no longer have a word that specifically distinguishes forcible coitus from other forms of sexual assault with penetration. Since sexual intercourse comes with an added layer of possible aggravating consequences (such as unwanted pregnancy or VDs), I find this wilful confusion unhelpful and self-serving.
So forcible anal/vaginal fisting, or penetration with a large object like a baseball bat, even though such thing can cause unrepairable damage is not rape?

I think that could be described as "aggravated sexual battery". A higher level of punishment from say, one finger/no permanent damage.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9553

Post by debaser71 »

EdwardGemmer wrote:
debaser71 wrote:Are non consensual hand jobs rape? Can women even rape men at all? Rape by envelopment? Vagina/mouth/hand around penis?
Are non consensual handjobs rape? In Ohio, no. Still illegal, but not rape.

Can women rape men? Yes. Any nonconsensual penetration is can be rape.

Vagina/mouth around penis? Rape. Hand? Gross sexual imposition.
Thanks for the answers. I have a bit of a stupid question. Sorry.

Can a boy/man be made to penetrate a vagina with his finger or object other than his penis and HE be one being raped? Is this stil nonconsensual penetration?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9554

Post by Apples »

windy wrote:Speaking of women and gaming, I hadn't heard that Pac-Man was designed to appeal to girls:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/gdc-201 ... m-pac-man/
In fact Iwatani was guided by female tastes – literally – throughout the early stages. “Girls like to eat – like my wife likes to eat a lot,” he said. “And this gave me the idea of Pac-Man eating the whole time.” The enemy ghosts, too, were made cute “because girls like that.”
"Girls like to eat" :D What would Sarkeesian make of this?
http://www.shakesville.com/2012/05/on-b ... nauts.html

rayshul
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9555

Post by rayshul »

This case seems kind of... open and shut-ish. Kids sexually assault unconscious girl in public, take pictures and videos, tell everyone about it.

Apples
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9556

Post by Apples »

Ophie hates dogs and wants them dead! Just kidding.

She actually has a post up that, though not exactly literature, actually has human/animal interest, a narrative, and even a hint of self-deprecation (and no block-quotes). Amazing. If she and other FTBers blogged like this more often, it wouldn't be such a worthless and boring shit-fuck of a network.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... dog-is-ok/

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9557

Post by welch »

decius wrote:
welch wrote: So forcible anal/vaginal fisting, or penetration with a large object like a baseball bat, even though such thing can cause unrepairable damage is not rape?


Look, I'm stuck to pre-2012 jargon, it appears. But it still seems more precise than conflating fingers with penises and deadly weapons.
A long time ago, well, not that long ago, the definition of "rape" in this country required the woman be a virgin. Other things that could keep you from being "raped": You were single and living alone (TROLLOP), you were known to have male friends (WHORE), you consumed alcohol (SLUUUT).

I think you'd have to be a raging, RAGING asshole to not agree that evolving the definition of Rape past idiocy like that was a good thing. Up until 2011, in this country, as far as the FBI was concerned, men could not be raped. DIdn't exist. We sensibly expanded the definition of Rape to allow for men being the victim.

on and on.

Fingers, as I just showed, can in fact, be used to do rather a lot of damage to various orifices. So yeah. Unwanted penetration even with a lowly finger is also rape. I fail to see how this is controversial.
decius wrote:
In 2012, the FBI changed their definition from "The carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will." to "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."
So tell me again how this is the wrong thing to do.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9558

Post by welch »

debaser71 wrote:
EdwardGemmer wrote:
debaser71 wrote:Are non consensual hand jobs rape? Can women even rape men at all? Rape by envelopment? Vagina/mouth/hand around penis?
Are non consensual handjobs rape? In Ohio, no. Still illegal, but not rape.

Can women rape men? Yes. Any nonconsensual penetration is can be rape.

Vagina/mouth around penis? Rape. Hand? Gross sexual imposition.
Thanks for the answers. I have a bit of a stupid question. Sorry.

Can a boy/man be made to penetrate a vagina with his finger or object other than his penis and HE be one being raped? Is this stil nonconsensual penetration?
well, yes. Gun at head, etc. Legally, while not a lawyer, I think we could safely call that "a fucking mess that will result in many lawyers drinking a lot"

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9559

Post by debaser71 »

specifically "rape" though?

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9560

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Submariner wrote:
welch wrote:
decius wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Bullshit. You said that including finger penetration of the vagina within the definition of "rape" was something Iran would do, not a Western democracy.
I stand by that. With the new loose definition applied, you no longer have a word that specifically distinguishes forcible coitus from other forms of sexual assault with penetration. Since sexual intercourse comes with an added layer of possible aggravating consequences (such as unwanted pregnancy or VDs), I find this wilful confusion unhelpful and self-serving.

So forcible anal/vaginal fisting, or penetration with a large object like a baseball bat, even though such thing can cause unrepairable damage is not rape?

I think that could be described as "aggravated sexual battery". A higher level of punishment from say, one finger/no permanent damage.

Just playing devil's advocate here.
Why the fuck does there need to be physical damage to make unwanted penetration rape? Rape goes far beyond the physical aspects of sexual activities.

I bet dollars to cents that most people would prefer to be punched in the face during a street robbery, over arriving home and finding that burglars have been through their underwear drawers.

Apples
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9561

Post by Apples »

rayshul wrote:This case seems kind of... open and shut-ish. Kids sexually assault unconscious girl in public, take pictures and videos, tell everyone about it.
Pretty much. I think Decius's opening post had a grain of truth -- sex offender registries are unique in criminal law. My understanding is that they were originally designed/justified because pedophilia is considered a disease and recidivism is very high. Many states/localities have easily-accessed online maps so you can see which sex-offenders live near you, and in some places things like public urination can get you on a list (this has been reformed in some places). And many places forbid sex offenders from living within x-distance of a school, playground, etc., which means you might never be able to legally live in a densely populated area again.

So maybe there's a debate to be had about this stuff, but the guilty verdict in this case seems pretty uncontroversial to me.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9562

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Apples wrote:
rayshul wrote:This case seems kind of... open and shut-ish. Kids sexually assault unconscious girl in public, take pictures and videos, tell everyone about it.
Pretty much. I think Decius's opening post had a grain of truth -- sex offender registries are unique in criminal law. My understanding is that they were originally designed/justified because pedophilia is considered a disease and recidivism is very high. Many states/localities have easily-accessed online maps so you can see which sex-offenders live near you, and in some places things like public urination can get you on a list (this has been reformed in some places). And many places forbid sex offenders from living within x-distance of a school, playground, etc., which means you might never be able to legally live in a densely populated area again.

So maybe there's a debate to be had about this stuff, but the guilty verdict in this case seems pretty uncontroversial to me.
In the South, your "etc" includes "churches". That is fucking disgraceful.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9563

Post by DeepInsideYourMind »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: In the South, your "etc" includes "churches". That is fucking disgraceful.
Fucking right! It's gonna give all those priests a *really* long commute to work!!!!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9564

Post by decius »

Welch, I'm not sure how I could possibly pass for someone who condones sexual assault in any shape or form, by claiming that there are useful differences in the modality of the crime to be accounted for.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9565

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

DeepInsideYourMind wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: In the South, your "etc" includes "churches". That is fucking disgraceful.
Fucking right! It's gonna give all those priests a *really* long commute to work!!!!
Hehe!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9566

Post by Spence »

welch wrote:A long time ago, well, not that long ago, the definition of "rape" in this country required the woman be a virgin. Other things that could keep you from being "raped": You were single and living alone (TROLLOP), you were known to have male friends (WHORE), you consumed alcohol (SLUUUT).

I think you'd have to be a raging, RAGING asshole to not agree that evolving the definition of Rape past idiocy like that was a good thing. Up until 2011, in this country, as far as the FBI was concerned, men could not be raped. DIdn't exist. We sensibly expanded the definition of Rape to allow for men being the victim.

on and on.

Fingers, as I just showed, can in fact, be used to do rather a lot of damage to various orifices. So yeah. Unwanted penetration even with a lowly finger is also rape. I fail to see how this is controversial.
Rape is a legal definition, and whether that definition is moral or not, I would recommend sticking to it, because accusing someone of being a rapist when they have not met the legal definition is likely to be libel.

The other complication is, of course, the legal definition varies from place to place. In the UK, the legal definition of rape is penetration by penis. It can be into any part of the victim's body - vagina, anus, mouth, and anything else you care to think of (please don't) - but it must be a penis that does the penetrating to be rape. It has the curious side effect that in the UK pretty much only males (+ pre operative transexual women, + hermaphrodites, to keep the QUILTBAGs happy) can actually commit rape. In the UK, other illegal/nonconsensual sexual acts get rounded up under sexual assault.

Of course, that is just the UK. Ohio will have different rules again. I would recommend sticking to the legal definitions as per the locality of the conviction to be safe. I have no idea what that is in this case as I haven't looked it up...

I would add, just because it isn't called rape doesn't mean it isn't bad. If I bash someone's brains in with a baseball bat, it isn't rape, doesn't mean it isn't bad. But accusing that individual of rape is likely to be considered libelous, so I think it is worth treading at least a little carefully.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9567

Post by Submariner »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Submariner wrote:
welch wrote:
decius wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Bullshit. You said that including finger penetration of the vagina within the definition of "rape" was something Iran would do, not a Western democracy.
I stand by that. With the new loose definition applied, you no longer have a word that specifically distinguishes forcible coitus from other forms of sexual assault with penetration. Since sexual intercourse comes with an added layer of possible aggravating consequences (such as unwanted pregnancy or VDs), I find this wilful confusion unhelpful and self-serving.

So forcible anal/vaginal fisting, or penetration with a large object like a baseball bat, even though such thing can cause unrepairable damage is not rape?

I think that could be described as "aggravated sexual battery". A higher level of punishment from say, one finger/no permanent damage.

Just playing devil's advocate here.
Why the fuck does there need to be physical damage to make unwanted penetration rape? Rape goes far beyond the physical aspects of sexual activities.

I bet dollars to cents that most people would prefer to be punched in the face during a street robbery, over arriving home and finding that burglars have been through their underwear drawers.
In Florida the exact name of the crime you describe is "sexual battery". The statute does not use the word "rape" except in reference to "rape crisis centers"

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... Index.html

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9568

Post by welch »

Apples wrote:
rayshul wrote:This case seems kind of... open and shut-ish. Kids sexually assault unconscious girl in public, take pictures and videos, tell everyone about it.
Pretty much. I think Decius's opening post had a grain of truth -- sex offender registries are unique in criminal law. My understanding is that they were originally designed/justified because pedophilia is considered a disease and recidivism is very high. Many states/localities have easily-accessed online maps so you can see which sex-offenders live near you, and in some places things like public urination can get you on a list (this has been reformed in some places). And many places forbid sex offenders from living within x-distance of a school, playground, etc., which means you might never be able to legally live in a densely populated area again.

So maybe there's a debate to be had about this stuff, but the guilty verdict in this case seems pretty uncontroversial to me.
The registries are a different case altogether and have little to do with the legal definition of rape

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9569

Post by windy »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: Why the fuck does there need to be physical damage to make unwanted penetration rape? Rape goes far beyond the physical aspects of sexual activities.

I bet dollars to cents that most people would prefer to be punched in the face during a street robbery, over arriving home and finding that burglars have been through their underwear drawers.
No disagreement on the first paragraph, but I would definitely pick someone going through my underwear drawers over getting punched in the face or even over a nonviolent street robbery.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9570

Post by Submariner »

Wow, Florida also allows for chemical or physical castration of multiply convicted sexual batterers.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9571

Post by Submariner »

Submariner wrote:Wow, Florida also allows for chemical or physical castration of multiply convicted sexual batterers.
Ok, it's the convict's choice as to chemical or physical castration:
However, in lieu of treatment with medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA), the court may order the defendant to undergo physical castration upon written motion by the defendant providing the defendant’s intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent to physical castration as an alternative penalty.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9572

Post by EdwardGemmer »

One thing I'm mildly annoyed about in this case is the euphoria over these convictions. These are teenagers being sentenced to prison. This is no cause for celebration.

Two, my thought is that these guys could have done anything they wanted to this girl. They did not engage (as far as I can tell) in vaginal intercourse. My thought as to why is that they considered that rape and what they actually did as not rape. There really isn't any education course on rape, so they are left to their own imaginations. That's why I agree with the general lines that education about rape for young men is a good thing. It''s also why I am disappointed with orgasmic joy over their convictions and incarceration.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9573

Post by decius »

EdwardGemmer wrote:These are teenagers being sentenced to prison. This is no cause for celebration.

Two, my thought is that these guys could have done anything they wanted to this girl. They did not engage (as far as I can tell) in vaginal intercourse. My thought as to why is that they considered that rape and what they actually did as not rape. There really isn't any education course on rape, so they are left to their own imaginations. That's why I agree with the general lines that education about rape for young men is a good thing. It''s also why I am disappointed with orgasmic joy over their convictions and incarceration.
Good lard, some sense at last.

I think everyone should be made to try a week or so of incarceration in their formative years. People have no fucking clue about what it entails and how horrific it is.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9574

Post by debaser71 »

If I were a dick I'd say something like, "mothers, you've failed your sons".

(note that I am taking my queue from something that was on facebook about bad fathering being the reason why facebookers were making odd comments over some celebrity woman going back to her abusive celebrity husband)

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9575

Post by JackSkeptic »

Justin, excellent podcast thanks.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9576

Post by Submariner »

Jack wrote:Justin, excellent podcast thanks.
I was hoping Naomi could answer my question: What circumstance could, in principle, falsify patriarchy theory?

I am disappoint.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9577

Post by Jan Steen »

Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

March 17, 2013 at 3:49 pm (UTC -7)

Ah, but for the Slymepit the simple appearance of a phrase here at B&W means you said it, Ophelia – and now they’ve got a couple more examples they can use to ‘demonstrate’ your ‘use’ of it.

Dishonest scumbags? Why, yes, that’s exactly what they are.
Nobody has claimed that Ophelia herself has said it. I have merely demonstrated that Bjarte Foshaug was, erm, mistaken when he suggested that the expression 'sister punisher' was a Slymepit invention. If anyone falls under the definition of 'dishonest scumbag' it would be 'die-in-a-fire' Wowbagger. I am giving Bjarte the benefit of the doubt; he is perhaps just too stupid to check his facts. But 'die-in-a-fire' Wowbagger is a lying propagandist, like so many of his ilk (Anthony K, Ichthyic, 'T is Himself/Ulysses, etc.).

The amusing aspect, and one they can't hide because it is a necessary part of their act, is the sanctimonious tone they always adopt; they remind me of televangelists and similar professional hypocrites. Their motivation is different, of course. They're not in it for the money. Somehow they must have convinced themselves that being a dishonest, hypocritical scumbag makes them a better person. They are 'lying for Jesus' for a differerent cause.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-504165

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9578

Post by Jan Steen »

A commenter has finally pointed out the obvious and Ophelia Benson reacts as stung by a hornet.
Ophelia Benson

March 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment

So what? So Melody used it here once; so what? I’m not Melody.

I don’t call people “chill girl” or “gender traitor” either. Get another fucking script.

You’re not “Dennis Greatbatch,” either, are you. You’re the same troll, aren’t you, reading from the same stupid stale moth-eaten script.
So, 'sister punisher', 'chill girl' and 'gender traitor' are now frowned upon, otherwise, why the vehement denial? Are these memes following the 'rotten porcupines' into retirement? Did they finally become too embarrassing for the sanctimonious hypocrites at FTBs?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9579

Post by JackSkeptic »

Submariner wrote:
Jack wrote:Justin, excellent podcast thanks.
I was hoping Naomi could answer my question: What circumstance could, in principle, falsify patriarchy theory?

I am disappoint.
By definition it can't be as it is a social theory not a scientific theory. Something Oolon fails to grasp on his last post at Nugent's ('Id mentioned this much earlier, he either does not read or ignores people's posts)

I can't be bothered to point that out to him though as he's been told this many times. Oolon is a prime example of the Caterpillar quoted in my signature. A waste of time but as he always switches to Ad Hominem is was worth the effort so people could see the sort of person he is.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9580

Post by JackSkeptic »

Oops was Humpty Dumpty, sorry Caterpillar.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9581

Post by Lurkion »

Lsuoma wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:Trigger warning. Biting satire as approved by Ophelia Benson.

http://humesrazor.blogspot.no/
Is that supposed to be funny? Most boring cartoon ever.
I think this is the same thing as when religious conservatives try to be comedians.

Because you haven't been able to look at the world with a properly critical eye, your comedy ends up shit. Comedy is based on observation. You can't observe things if your eyes are always closed.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9582

Post by welch »

Jan Steen wrote:A commenter has finally pointed out the obvious and Ophelia Benson reacts as stung by a hornet.
Ophelia Benson

March 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment

So what? So Melody used it here once; so what? I’m not Melody.

I don’t call people “chill girl” or “gender traitor” either. Get another fucking script.

You’re not “Dennis Greatbatch,” either, are you. You’re the same troll, aren’t you, reading from the same stupid stale moth-eaten script.
So, 'sister punisher', 'chill girl' and 'gender traitor' are now frowned upon, otherwise, why the vehement denial? Are these memes following the 'rotten porcupines' into retirement? Did they finally become too embarrassing for the sanctimonious hypocrites at FTBs?
They're only frowned upon when inconvenient

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9583

Post by TheMudbrooker »

Given your avatar, it seems this basket of puppies might be more appropriate than the more common basket of pussies. If it seems too cute for the 'Pit, you may assume they are dead puppies.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-o_XMK_V8uwQ/T ... basket.jpg
Did someone say dead puppies?

[youtube]rcPvl6oEN-Y[/youtube]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9584

Post by Steersman »

decius wrote:
EdwardGemmer wrote:These are teenagers being sentenced to prison. This is no cause for celebration.

Two, my thought is that these guys could have done anything they wanted to this girl. They did not engage (as far as I can tell) in vaginal intercourse. My thought as to why is that they considered that rape and what they actually did as not rape. There really isn't any education course on rape, so they are left to their own imaginations. That's why I agree with the general lines that education about rape for young men is a good thing. It''s also why I am disappointed with orgasmic joy over their convictions and incarceration.
Good lard, some sense at last.

I think everyone should be made to try a week or so of incarceration in their formative years. People have no fucking clue about what it entails and how horrific it is.
Agreed. You’ve probably seen or heard of the documentary Scared Straight:
… a group of inmates known as the "lifers" berate, scream at, and terrify the young offenders in an attempt to "scare them straight" (hence the film's title) so that those teenagers will avoid prison life.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9585

Post by free thoughtpolice »

The thread about Steubenville on Pharyngula now has erikthebassist mentioning the Slymepit re. Sville.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9586

Post by Lurkion »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
decius wrote:This is ludicrous, for instance.
The young men penetrated the inebriated young woman with their fingers, which in Ohio constitutes rape.
Such redefinitions of words are to be expected in the Iranian penal code, not in a western democracy.
Really? So what exactly, when inserted into a vagina without the latter's owner's consent, would be "rape"? Just a penis? Ridiculous.

And what about the anus? That not rape in your opinion?

Damn those Western democracies, and their Iranian-like definitions of rape. Before you know it they'll be putting people onto a register for life just for raping some girl.
I'm with penis-hat on this one. That is rape.

BUT I don't agree with sex offender registries. They're fucking stupid.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9587

Post by Cunning Punt »

Hello people, I have been mostly away from the internet over the last couple of weeks due to family and travel commitments. Anything exciting been happening?

No, don't tell me, I will catch up.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9588

Post by Lurkion »

decius wrote:Yes, you're right. From another article it appears that I was unaware of other damning details, too. So, I'll just STFU and perhaps revise my position later.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I like it when our people are unlike FtBers (i.e. most of the time).

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9589

Post by welch »

Steersman wrote:
decius wrote:
EdwardGemmer wrote:These are teenagers being sentenced to prison. This is no cause for celebration.

Two, my thought is that these guys could have done anything they wanted to this girl. They did not engage (as far as I can tell) in vaginal intercourse. My thought as to why is that they considered that rape and what they actually did as not rape. There really isn't any education course on rape, so they are left to their own imaginations. That's why I agree with the general lines that education about rape for young men is a good thing. It''s also why I am disappointed with orgasmic joy over their convictions and incarceration.
Good lard, some sense at last.

I think everyone should be made to try a week or so of incarceration in their formative years. People have no fucking clue about what it entails and how horrific it is.
Agreed. You’ve probably seen or heard of the documentary Scared Straight:
… a group of inmates known as the "lifers" berate, scream at, and terrify the young offenders in an attempt to "scare them straight" (hence the film's title) so that those teenagers will avoid prison life.
However, as it turns out, those programs were not much more effective, if at all, than doing nothing. Fear is not great as a long term motivator

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9590

Post by welch »

free thoughtpolice wrote:The thread about Steubenville on Pharyngula now has erikthebassist mentioning the Slymepit re. Sville.

Of course he is. We even know what he's saying.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9591

Post by Lsuoma »

Cunning Punt wrote: No, don't tell me, I will catch up.
No you won't.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9592

Post by Lurkion »

welch wrote:
decius wrote:
welch wrote: Wait, unwanted penetration with a penis is bad, but fingers are just youthful hijinks?

Never implied that.
actually, you kind of did. Penetration with a penis is rape, with fingers is "just" sexual assault. that and the whole "drunken teenagers" bit.

why the downgrade?
Although I agree that penetration with a finger is rape, unauthorised digital clitoral stimulation would be "just" sexual assault IMHO. Doesn't mean it's not serious, but we don't base our definitions on whether we consider the thing 'bad' (otherwise everything would be 'rape' and we could be headline bloggers at FtB).

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9593

Post by welch »

rocko2466 wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
decius wrote:This is ludicrous, for instance.
The young men penetrated the inebriated young woman with their fingers, which in Ohio constitutes rape.
Such redefinitions of words are to be expected in the Iranian penal code, not in a western democracy.
Really? So what exactly, when inserted into a vagina without the latter's owner's consent, would be "rape"? Just a penis? Ridiculous.

And what about the anus? That not rape in your opinion?

Damn those Western democracies, and their Iranian-like definitions of rape. Before you know it they'll be putting people onto a register for life just for raping some girl.
I'm with penis-hat on this one. That is rape.

BUT I don't agree with sex offender registries. They're fucking stupid.
Agreed. The create an underclass of homeless people, and increase safety not a fucking whit.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9594

Post by decius »

Steersman wrote: Agreed. You’ve probably seen or heard of the documentary Scared Straight:
… a group of inmates known as the "lifers" berate, scream at, and terrify the young offenders in an attempt to "scare them straight" (hence the film's title) so that those teenagers will avoid prison life.
Nope, but I did 11 days in the gaol of a Banana republic in the Caribbean on suspicion of "illegal immigration", waiting for the bloody Italian consul (from another Banana republic) to show up with some documents.
In truth, I was just island-hopping, but the Venezuelan travel agency, where I had booked that particular flight, didn't inform me that a return ticket was mandatory to enter that country.
All prior to the internet age, of course.

Unsurprisingly, I was left with a few indelible memories, not least going without food the whole time. The other inmates were kind. When they didn't murder each other, that is.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9595

Post by Lurkion »

I am still disappointed that Lsuoma is not a fat Hawaiian guy. That podcast devastated me just a little bit.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9596

Post by decius »

welch wrote:
However, as it turns out, those programs were not much more effective, if at all, than doing nothing. Fear is not great as a long term motivator
I find that surprising.

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Re: The Ohio Rape case

#9597

Post by mordacious1 »

I've been on several blogs (Yahoo, HuffPo to name two) concerning this topic and what I find consistently are comments such as: "I hope these two boys get raped in prison. HaHa". These comments always get several "thumbs up". I don't understand this mentality. My first response is: So you condone rape then? Which generally sets off a shit-storm, including biblical verses. The message I'm hearing is: Rape women bad, rape men good. We live in a sick society folks.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9598

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

free thoughtpolice wrote:The thread about Steubenville on Pharyngula now has erikthebassist mentioning the Slymepit re. Sville.
Erik:
Hello pit, I know you read every word here and are currently discussing whether rape must involve a penis and vagina or not, but are any of you nitwits going to seriously try arguing that there isn’t a part of western culture that turns a blind eye to rape after something like this? Really? That’s rape culture!
Discussing: it' actually a good thing.

Well fuck you too. I'm going to treat all of you as a homogeneous mass as well. Here's a comment from grumpyoldfart written shortly after yours:
The black boy came up with plenty of sobbing noises but no tears. It’s a problem actors always have – how to produce tears on cue.
All FfTB commenters are racist!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#9599

Post by BarnOwl »

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p60 ... 0cef07.png

Ophelia needs to stop making shit up to bolster her victim credibility.

Besides, if her former philosopher pals are correct, she's not much older than I am.

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Re: The Ohio Rape case

#9600

Post by Lsuoma »

mordacious1 wrote:I've been on several blogs (Yahoo, HuffPo to name two) concerning this topic and what I find consistently are comments such as: "I hope these two boys get raped in prison. HaHa". These comments always get several "thumbs up". I don't understand this mentality. My first response is: So you condone rape then? Which generally sets off a shit-storm, including biblical verses. The message I'm hearing is: Rape women bad, rape men good. We live in a sick society folks.
Yep. When I used to waste my time on Slashdot there were very frequent jokes about Federal Pound Me In The Ass Prisons, and I ALWAYS used to ask the people making such comments whether they found rape funny, anal or vaginal. Often the response was a braying jeer back at me for being too sensitive. Of course this was Slashdot, so it was peopled by the likes of colon and Anthony K, but the responses spoke volumes.

Locked