Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[jjbinx007]

but we’re simultaneously getting this bizarre vibe that CFI, as represented by Lindsay, does not like this feminist stuff, and would rather that we all went away and the MRAs who are crowing about his talk were here instead.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ng-strong/
WTF is with PZ and his think exactly like us or you're a card carrying woman hater....

Notice Myers didn't even attempt to deal with what Lindsay actually said? Watson writes an inaccurate hit-piece on Lindsay and sits back smugly waiting for the apologies, but Lindsay writes back with a fact-laden fuck-you.

If Lindsay had written anything inaccurate Myers would have been all over it. There wasn't even anything there to quote-mine. All Myers could do was talk about a "vibe" of the place he was "feeling" (is Myers psychic now?) and then moan that people were tweeting using the conference hashtag, which has nothing to do with Lindsay anyway.

It was satisfying to see Watson's bullshit get shot down in such a manner.

Of course, now that Watsons lies and distortions have been pointed out to her, she will obviously do the correct thing and post a retraction/amendment acknowledging her mistakes.

Of course she will.

[Pitchguest]

I have to admit I'm curious if this might be enough to make Steven Novella either comment or even cut his losses and disassociate from the Skepchicks. Sadly I don't have much hope. But at this point this has to be affecting the Skeptics' Guide, their ability to get guests on and such, surely?

No chance.
They've spent the last six years hanging out at various drunken skepchick frat parties which, according to Rystefn, were not exactly renowned for their promotion of chastity. The various members of the SGU panel probably have more skeletons in their closet than the storage room of the Ray Harryhausen museum.
Would you trust Watson to keep a secret like this if you've just dropped her from the SGU?

... "not exactly renowned for their promotion of chastity" sounds as if they conducted orgies or something.

I suppose it couldn't have been it was bereft of alcohol, seeing as Watson said sex following the consumption of alcohol is rape.

Anyway, if I was Steven Novella, I would drop Watson right now to save face. She's totally unhinged. And in order to keep up with Watson, his secret would have to be damned sleazy. Elevator Guy? :mrgreen:

[SenorBeagle]

OT:

Shiiiiiiiiieeet~! Has anyone else watched the latest Doctor Who episode? That was one hell of a way to end it. My reaction, almost verbatim, was first a loud "Whuuuaaaaaaat?" Followed by laughter. (Mostly because of the bombastic way it was done.) Followed by rampantly checking online if anyone else had the same reaction. Haha, thinking about it still makes me snicker.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program.

My reaction was a strangled whimper, followed by logging on to go "Dude! Dude! Dude! DUDE! DUDE! DUDE! DUDE! DUUUUUUUDE! OMFG!" at me mate, who was also watching.

If anyone wants more in-depth discussion without derailing, there's the Slymepit's Properly Big Science Fiction Thread (tm), too (shameless self-promotion, since I started it :-P )

So, with this and the CFI thing (Ron Lindsay is awesome), I'm bloody glad I got enough free time to get caught up on the thread this weekend!

[AbsurdWalls]

At that time I looked up who was on the Board of CFI to see who he was responsible to - no obvious SJWs in that list, so presumably Lindsay's job is safe.

What does that say about "Smellody"'s future?

Considering her behavior and recently preferred company, she may just be having an 'oh shit' moment about now.

:popcorn:

Unfortunately Smelody's job is secure. She's genuinely crazy. Most places are afraid to fire the crazy because of possible legal retribution.

Crazy only protects you so far. Let this be a money loser or cause CFI problems, and they'll shoot her out of a cannon.

CFI firing somebody based on a disagreement? I highly doubt anything is going to happen career-wise unless she wants to make a change herself. That would be unwise to do, how easy is it to just float into another of these sorts of jobs?

[Rawrsome]

All Myers could do was talk about a "vibe" of the place he was "feeling" (is Myers psychic now?) and then moan that people were tweeting using the conference hashtag, which has nothing to do with Lindsay anyway.

[youtube][/youtube]


Its as if he's a giant fan of the movie The castle.

[Rawrsome]

All Myers could do was talk about a "vibe" of the place he was "feeling" (is Myers psychic now?) and then moan that people were tweeting using the conference hashtag, which has nothing to do with Lindsay anyway.

[youtube][/youtube]


Its as if he's a giant fan of the movie The castle.

Oh titty fucking christ

[youtube]ssukL9a99JA[/youtube]

[DW Adams]

PZ latest is so fucking disingenious.

It’s 4am and people are really annoyed

That is a weird and impolitic message to send to attendees. It was especially weird to hear that on day one, and then to watch Melody Hensley, the person who did the organizational work to set up the meeting, make fundraising pitches at the evening reception on both days. Melody definitely stands behind the purpose of this event, there’s no doubt about that at all, but we’re simultaneously getting this bizarre vibe that CFI, as represented by Lindsay, does not like this feminist stuff, and would rather that we all went away and the MRAs who are crowing about his talk were here instead.

Fucking dickhead, not the femisist stuff, the arrogant cunts who've hijacked it.

Who is he supporting? The people who actively invest in this meeting and CFI, or the jerks who lurk on the internet and rage at women all day long with no commitment to any cause besides hatred, and are openly hoping to see the meeting fail?

Did anyone see anyone, anywhere on the internet "hoping to see this fail"? I didn't.

And his goddamn "rage at women" bullshit. We rage at all of them; men, women, trans, Half-fish and Simple Flower (I've included the last two because I don't know what category to include them in). It's always the women, even when we call out idiots like oolon and Improbable Joe.

A lot of people are extraordinarily irritated by this effort by the head of CFI to undermine a CFI-sponsored conference. That’s why this one tired old man was listening to a crowd of annoyed conference attendees packed into his hotel room at 2am complain about mismanagement and loss of confidence in the administration of CFI. Attendees who paid $250 each, plus transportation and hotel costs, to listen to big names in feminism and secularism talk, and who got that plus a director who seemed more interested in appeasing an obsessed gang of manic, moronic anti-feminist spammers who’d been flooding the twitter feed (a strange corruption of the usual use of conference hashtags that I’ve never witnessed before) and countering the purpose of the conference.

Skepchicks and FtB bloggers don't count as "big names" and they seem to be the majority of speakers.

Also, I didn't see any "anti-feminists" tweeting. (But we know who he means)

[BarnOwl]

but we’re simultaneously getting this bizarre vibe that CFI, as represented by Lindsay, does not like this feminist stuff, and would rather that we all went away and the MRAs who are crowing about his talk were here instead.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ng-strong/
WTF is with PZ and his think exactly like us or you're a card carrying woman hater....

Notice Myers didn't even attempt to deal with what Lindsay actually said? Watson writes an inaccurate hit-piece on Lindsay and sits back smugly waiting for the apologies, but Lindsay writes back with a fact-laden fuck-you.

If Lindsay had written anything inaccurate Myers would have been all over it. There wasn't even anything there to quote-mine. All Myers could do was talk about a "vibe" of the place he was "feeling" (is Myers psychic now?) and then moan that people were tweeting using the conference hashtag, which has nothing to do with Lindsay anyway.

It was satisfying to see Watson's bullshit get shot down in such a manner.

Of course, now that Watsons lies and distortions have been pointed out to her, she will obviously do the correct thing and post a retraction/amendment acknowledging her mistakes.

Of course she will.

Oohhhhh, it gets even better this morning http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... y-annoyed/

What has also caused all these people to lose confidence in Lindsay is that today, he posted a complaint against Rebecca Watson, who is here both as a speaker and as a sponsor of attendees here, comparing her to a propagandist for North Korea, and blathering misconceptions about his odd understanding of the idea of privilege and asserting that there is an effort to silence men (he’s very resentful of the idea that men might be expected to be silent long enough to listen to the experience of minorities). Or rather, he’s unhappy with the hyphenated entity Myers-Watson (really, we aren’t married, not even close), because he also posted a tirade against me for stating that shutting up and listening, that is, paying attention to and respecting the experiences of the underprivileged, is an appropriate strategy for learning about and responding to the concerns of people outside your class, sex, and race. Which, I thought, was the goal of this conference.

The majority of those conference attendees look to be about as "underprivileged" as I am. Which is to say, not very. And the next paragraph has a statement about how much attendees paid for conference fees, travel, accommodations, Surlyramics, etc. Contradictory much?

I was put in the unusual and awkward position of having to reassure these attendees that CFI really was a great organization (something the head of CFI should have been doing, right?) despite the apparent opposition of the man in charge…a man who had just posted a bitter complaint about me on the web. I had to remind them that the woman who was specifically in charge of this conference, Melody Hensley, was on their side, and supported the cause of women in secularism despite the apparent intransigence of her boss.

I’m only here as an attendee myself, yet here I am having to defend the organization. I have no reputation as a diplomat, yet here I am trying to put out the fires that the CEO of the organization himself has enflamed. What kind of screwed up mess is this?

Oh poor poor PeeZus, such a martyr for social justice! Disingenuous asshole, maybe you should stop flying all over the planet and partying (usually on someone else's dollars or euros) and try actually doing something for a change. Literally doing something to effect change.

Hopefully, it's the kind of "screwed up mess" that will put an end to the gravy train for bloviating asswads like yourself.

[BarnOwl]

D'oh! Ninja'ed by Skeeve! :mrgreen:

[DW Adams]

I was expecting a ninja, while I was typing mine :)

[Dick Strawkins]

Barnowl wrote

Hopefully, it's the kind of "screwed up mess" that will put an end to the gravy train for bloviating asswads like yourself.

"Bloviating asswad"

What a perfect description of Myers! :D

[rpguest]

Dennett on being old and white and privileged

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/ma ... ng-extract

2 RESPECT YOUR OPPONENT

Just how charitable are you supposed to be when criticising the views of an opponent? If there are obvious contradictions in the opponent's case, then you should point them out, forcefully. If there are somewhat hidden contradictions, you should carefully expose them to view – and then dump on them. But the search for hidden contradictions often crosses the line into nitpicking, sea-lawyering and outright parody. The thrill of the chase and the conviction that your opponent has to be harbouring a confusion somewhere encourages uncharitable interpretation, which gives you an easy target to attack.

But such easy targets are typically irrelevant to the real issues at stake and simply waste everybody's time and patience, even if they give amusement to your supporters. The best antidote I know for this tendency to caricature one's opponent is a list of rules promulgated many years ago by social psychologist and game theorist Anatol Rapoport.

How to compose a successful critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target's position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: "Thanks, I wish I'd thought of putting it that way."

2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).

3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.

4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

One immediate effect of following these rules is that your targets will be a receptive audience for your criticism: you have already shown that you understand their positions as well as they do, and have demonstrated good judgment (you agree with them on some important matters and have even been persuaded by something they said). Following Rapoport's rules is always, for me, something of a struggle…

[AbsurdWalls]

OT:

Shiiiiiiiiieeet~! Has anyone else watched the latest Doctor Who episode? That was one hell of a way to end it. My reaction, almost verbatim, was first a loud "Whuuuaaaaaaat?" Followed by laughter. (Mostly because of the bombastic way it was done.) Followed by rampantly checking online if anyone else had the same reaction. Haha, thinking about it still makes me snicker.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program.

There were some hilarious reactions on Twitter from people misunderstanding what was going on.

Also the text-on-screen was surprising as hell.

We need a separate thread for Doctor Who spoilers... and one for Game of Thrones.

[BarnOwl]

Cue epic flouncing and rage tears and withdrawal of merch!

[AbsurdWalls]

http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/05/19/d2EZ8.png

Justin being eclipsed by Lindsay is the best possible outcome for him. I had not even considered it as a possibility when I assessed him going as a lose-lose (either damp squib or causing trouble).

[Pitchguest]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

[AbsurdWalls]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

It makes sense to me because they are doing it for an audience on the internet. They each want to publicly "win". Hard to say whether it was Lindsay posting the text or the Tweeters in his talk that moved it into this domain, but after that whoever went to "settle" it offline would lose the chance to have the last word online and THAT is what a significant number of people (i.e. more people than are even at WiS) will see and remember.

[Dick Strawkins]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

You're not suggesting that Lindsay says to Watson, "Don't take this the wrong way... :shock:

[bovarchist]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

Are you kidding? The sheer sexual tension could quite possibly destroy the entire hotel. It would certainly blow the shit out of the furniture.

[welch]

...Humans can actually follow a trail of chocolate scent across a field...

Well, some can.

http://www.michaelnugent.com/wp-content ... /01/MH.jpg

BAAHAAHAHAHAHA

HAVE I TOLLLLLLLD YOU LATELY, THAT I LOVE YOUUUUUU

[Karmakin]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

I dunno. I think that's a bit unfair. It's difficult to stand up to someone and say "Hey, stop that you sexist/racist person you", as is what each of them are doing, really.

Most people tend to be non-confrontational I find, which is one of the big problems of the blog world, it allows people to be confrontational without being confrontational.

That said, as this sort of direct confrontation is one of the things that folks like Watson and Myers demand in order for "men" to fight "misogyny", there IS a certain level of hypocrisy involved.

[Karmakin]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

It makes sense to me because they are doing it for an audience on the internet. They each want to publicly "win". Hard to say whether it was Lindsay posting the text or the Tweeters in his talk that moved it into this domain, but after that whoever went to "settle" it offline would lose the chance to have the last word online and THAT is what a significant number of people (i.e. more people than are even at WiS) will see and remember.

That's a good point. It really was Rebecca's sexist/racist tweet (that was retweeted so often that it's the top tweed on the #WiSCFI ALL feed) that started the whole thing. Taking it offline and leaving that sit there on its own only would have entrenched that sexist/racist attitude as being acceptable.

[welch]

Just listening to the Joe Rogan vs Jamie Kilstein podcast and it's amusing to hear how the super-tough-righteous-SJW-comedian is so opinionated on Twitter when he has the likes of Rebecca Watson slapping his back when he stands up to Evil but he's a fucking pussy when confronted face-to-face. The spineless coward really knows how to backpeddle:

(this is part 2)

He's also not used to his Words Of Power being dismissed, or shown for the idiocy they are. Rogan's relentless point that telling people to edit their shit because someone in they audience MAY have had a bad experience related to it is censorship is brilliant and killstein is completely unable to counter it. Every time he tries to bring it up, Rogan is not having it, and nukes it again.

[welch]

but we’re simultaneously getting this bizarre vibe that CFI, as represented by Lindsay, does not like this feminist stuff, and would rather that we all went away and the MRAs who are crowing about his talk were here instead.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ng-strong/



WTF is with PZ and his think exactly like us or you're a card carrying woman hater....

Dude, he's been pushing that for YEARS now. THere's no way he can back away from it. Marc Lepine and all.

[welch]

For the record, as many of you know, feminists were happy to have Ron Lindsay 'speak out against hate directed at women' following Surly Amy's call for male leaders to support women/speak out against 'hate.'

http://skepchick.org/2012/07/speaking-o ... a-lindsay/

But now...uhhhh....uhhhh...

NOT PURE ENOUGH!
#SecularShunning

WRONG THINK WRONG THINK SHUN THE SP!!!!

[welch]

Cue epic flouncing and rage tears and withdrawal of merch!

What a fucking tool. The goddamned thing thing ends at noon, you ALWAYS pack up merch "early" on the last day. If nothing else, to avoid the crowds who are leaving.

But, it is useful. All the people buying into it as something huge will show themselves to be completely stupid about how things work.

[welch]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

Lindsay I don't know about. WatsonMyers? Honky please, you know those two don't say a fucking thing in person to the person they're upset with.

Guarantee, guaranfuckingtee that the first post PeeZus has up when he's back in MN will be all thunderbolt and lightning. He's only "polite" in person.

[BarnOwl]

Treehugging malevolent 'Pytter that I am, I think the best thing that can come out of this is that Watson and Myers lose their frequent flyer status and perks.

[Gumby]

Maybe a PR disaster for her friends. :popcorn:

Half the Slymepit? Must be a lot of missing posts, I only saw 3 or 4 Pyt members post, and they were reasonable posts. I actually structured mine to be very vanilla, but clearly supportive of Lindsey.

So what if people from the Pit post there, Melody? Christ, I love how you and your fellow assholes act like we don't have a right to comment. Fuck you.

Anyway, I've had a few posts as "Guesty" (I reserve "Gumby" for here). Here's my final comment (#109), and now I'm done with that thread because I've said what I wanted to say.

I think it’s very telling that in these comments there have already been several calls by the True Believers for Mr. Lindsay to

1) Have his “writing privileges” taken away
2) Be hauled before the CFI board and punished somehow
3) Be fired from CFI

How dare Lindsay say *anything* that doesn’t toe the FTB/Skepchick line! How dare he suggest that using tactics like “check your privilege” and “shut up and listen” are maybe, just maybe, silencing tactics and therefore antithetical to the principles of skeptical inquiry?

Here’s the real problem: People like PZ Myers, and by default his bootlicking minions, have been busy denouncing the whole skeptical movement. PZ even went so far as to dramatically “flounce” from skepticism. But they still go to events sponsored by organizations where skeptical inquiry is central to their mission. Then, when they get there and said skeptical inquiry results in opinions and questions that are not 100% aligned with the beliefs of people like FtB bloggers and their followers, then the toys start being thrown from the pram.

These people want all the benefits of events run by skeptical organizations while at the same time decrying skepticism as “bad” because it doesn’t make exemptions for *their* beliefs. Sorry PZ et. al., skepticism doesn’t work that way.

You all obviously want an echo chamber - that much is readily apparent just from a casual read of Freethought Blogs, Skepchick, and the bizarre asylum known as the AtheismPlus forum. Since you all hate skepticism so much, how’s about you parasites drop off from the host organism and form your own organization? One where you can hold your own conferences? You could form your own perfect little isolated bubble of self-imagined dogmatic superiority. Think of it as a mini-universe where you can all pat each other on the back in perfect lock-step agreement, without the big bad specter of actual skepticism peering over your shoulder, asking those uncomfortable questions that expose the inconsistencies and hypocrisies in your dogma.

You’d be better off, and happier. And the skeptic and atheist communities could actually get back to doing real work, no longer burdened by the need to play the role of the diplomat trying to coddle a bunch of self-important, vicious, bullying, irrational dogmatists who spit in the face of the very entity that’s been patiently trying to sponsor them.

[BarnOwl]

Srsly?

[DW Adams]

I'll be spending the afternoon in Oklahoma City, hanging out with atheists and GBLT Pride Parade folks, so I'll say this now.


I hope those women and men who attended the DC conference learned something from the speakers/panels (those not tainted by the Skepchick/FtB idiots), and carry what they learned back to their local organizations. Actually, I hope they learned something from the idiots as well. How NOT to act when discussing feminism, secularism and atheism.

It's a shame Humanism is promoted more, as it covers everything anyone needs to reach equality. The radfems have their man-haters, the MRM have their woman-haters and everyone else seems caught in the middle.

I noticed some tweets from Justin where he was suggesting replacing "human" with "woman" in one of the talks, and how it would be so much better for all involved to move in that direction. /sigh

[Gumby]

http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/05/19/d2EZ8.png

Justin being eclipsed by Lindsay is the best possible outcome for him. I had not even considered it as a possibility when I assessed him going as a lose-lose (either damp squib or causing trouble).

Yeah but, surprisingly for me to say, I think Vacula would have done all right even if the Spotlight of Evil hadn't turned from him to Lindsay. I do, however, think it was a good idea for Karla to go along to keep an eye on him. :lol:

[Dick Strawkins]

Srsly?

@justinvacula: Poppy - Interfaith work is a great place to ally ourselves. Liberal religious friends are allies with common goals. - #WIScfi

Ooops!
That's not going to go down well with Peezus!

[DW Adams]

grrr, replace is with isn't in the third paragraph.

[justinvacula]

http://i.imgur.com/ZPbcbLy.jpg

Live-tweeting from Day Three at #WIScfi - Amanda calling it like she sees it.

https://t.co/LFfWGOxx79

[Gumby]

Cue epic flouncing and rage tears and withdrawal of merch!

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/boar ... 613109.png

Poor Amy. Her merch table never gets a chance to get to the finish line.

[DW Adams]

http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/05/19/d2EZ8.png

Justin being eclipsed by Lindsay is the best possible outcome for him. I had not even considered it as a possibility when I assessed him going as a lose-lose (either damp squib or causing trouble).

Yeah but, surprisingly for me to say, I think Vacula would have done all right even if the Spotlight of Evil hadn't turned from him to Lindsay. I do, however, think it was a good idea for Karla to go along to keep an eye on him. :lol:

Yes, Karla was a great influence/nanny for Justin. He does tend to get carried away sometimes.

Thank you Justin and big thanks for Karla being there with him.

[AbsurdWalls]

You know, I find it a little bizarre that these people -- Lindsay, Watson, Myers -- write these blog posts about eachother, insulting eachother in one way or another, and they're at the same fucking conference. Instead of gossip, why don't they just get together all three of them (though preferably not in a hotel room), have a coffee or something and sort it the fuck out like adults?

Why not? If they're all at the same place, why not have a chat face to face? :confusion-shrug:

It makes sense to me because they are doing it for an audience on the internet. They each want to publicly "win". Hard to say whether it was Lindsay posting the text or the Tweeters in his talk that moved it into this domain, but after that whoever went to "settle" it offline would lose the chance to have the last word online and THAT is what a significant number of people (i.e. more people than are even at WiS) will see and remember.

That's a good point. It really was Rebecca's sexist/racist tweet (that was retweeted so often that it's the top tweed on the #WiSCFI ALL feed) that started the whole thing. Taking it offline and leaving that sit there on its own only would have entrenched that sexist/racist attitude as being acceptable.

What happened was locally "bad". I think if Watson and Lindsay had gone off into a room together and had a conversation they would have been able to come to an agreement. Each would have had sufficient regard for the other to be willing to hear them out and maybe cede a little ground. [Actually, considering nobody has managed to smooth things over with EBW maybe they are incapable of that.] It is globally "good" however because it gives us the standard operating procedure writ large across the blogosphere and that is something that will provoke reactions from many people. I am particularly interested in what Nugent will say.

One of the main problems I have is that they could look at Lindsay (affluent, white, male) and then assume based on the properties they perceived that he was part of some monolithic other where each member does not need to be treated as an individual. The SJW folks do not respect individuals, they don't want to have to do the work involved with talking to people one-by-one and trying to persuade them. The Atheism+ forum is particularly bad for it: "We have already talked about this issue before, so we don't need to argue the case again with you." Why do they think political parties have people go door-to-door and try to talk to as many individuals as they possibly can?

I am with Habermas on this:

Members of the public sphere must adhere to certain rules for an "ideal speech situation" to occur. They are:

1. Every subject with the competence to speak and act is allowed to take part in a discourse.

2a. Everyone is allowed to question any assertion whatever.

2b. Everyone is allowed to introduce any assertion whatever into the discourse.

2c. Everyone is allowed to express their attitudes, desires and needs.

3. No speaker may be prevented, by internal or external coercion, from exercising his rights as laid down in (1) and (2)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_speech_situation

[jjbinx007]

So I had a nice lady knock on my door yesterday (disclaimer: I *hate* cold callers with a passion, and I hate even more when they're trying to guilt me into giving them money) asking for Christian Aid donations. She was nice, and I didn't want to appear rude, so I asked if I could take a look at the leaflet and get back to her (she lives around the corner).

As much as I dislike religion, at least these people tangibly do something positive in the world. What do atheist/skeptic organisations do? Apart from buy expensive shoes for bloggers, transcribe a few dozen videos and pay hundreds of dollars to attend conferences which they try to take over?

I've never been more tempted to donate to Christian Aid in my life.

[jjbinx007]

http://i.imgur.com/ZPbcbLy.jpg

Live-tweeting from Day Three at #WIScfi - Amanda calling it like she sees it.

https://t.co/LFfWGOxx79

The hyperbole's strong with this one.

[JackSkeptic]

Maybe a PR disaster for her friends. :popcorn:

Half the Slymepit? Must be a lot of missing posts, I only saw 3 or 4 Pyt members post, and they were reasonable posts. I actually structured mine to be very vanilla, but clearly supportive of Lindsey.

So what if people from the Pit post there, Melody? Christ, I love how you and your fellow assholes act like we don't have a right to comment. Fuck you.

Anyway, I've had a few posts as "Guesty" (I reserve "Gumby" for here). Here's my final comment (#109), and now I'm done with that thread because I've said what I wanted to say.

I think it’s very telling that in these comments there have already been several calls by the True Believers for Mr. Lindsay to

1) Have his “writing privileges” taken away
2) Be hauled before the CFI board and punished somehow
3) Be fired from CFI

How dare Lindsay say *anything* that doesn’t toe the FTB/Skepchick line! How dare he suggest that using tactics like “check your privilege” and “shut up and listen” are maybe, just maybe, silencing tactics and therefore antithetical to the principles of skeptical inquiry?

Here’s the real problem: People like PZ Myers, and by default his bootlicking minions, have been busy denouncing the whole skeptical movement. PZ even went so far as to dramatically “flounce” from skepticism. But they still go to events sponsored by organizations where skeptical inquiry is central to their mission. Then, when they get there and said skeptical inquiry results in opinions and questions that are not 100% aligned with the beliefs of people like FtB bloggers and their followers, then the toys start being thrown from the pram.

These people want all the benefits of events run by skeptical organizations while at the same time decrying skepticism as “bad” because it doesn’t make exemptions for *their* beliefs. Sorry PZ et. al., skepticism doesn’t work that way.

You all obviously want an echo chamber - that much is readily apparent just from a casual read of Freethought Blogs, Skepchick, and the bizarre asylum known as the AtheismPlus forum. Since you all hate skepticism so much, how’s about you parasites drop off from the host organism and form your own organization? One where you can hold your own conferences? You could form your own perfect little isolated bubble of self-imagined dogmatic superiority. Think of it as a mini-universe where you can all pat each other on the back in perfect lock-step agreement, without the big bad specter of actual skepticism peering over your shoulder, asking those uncomfortable questions that expose the inconsistencies and hypocrisies in your dogma.

You’d be better off, and happier. And the skeptic and atheist communities could actually get back to doing real work, no longer burdened by the need to play the role of the diplomat trying to coddle a bunch of self-important, vicious, bullying, irrational dogmatists who spit in the face of the very entity that’s been patiently trying to sponsor them.

Excellent post Gumby.

[Gumby]

Did anyone see anyone, anywhere on the internet "hoping to see this fail"? I didn't.

Not one person here has said they wanted WiScfi to fail. Not one. I have, however, seen more than one comment wishing for its success.

That said, I think it's great that the only thing we're seeing on the internet about this conference is Peezus and Becky and Melody et. al. hysterically shrieking about Lindsay. Once again, they think they've hit the jackpot with regards to getting all the attention, and once again they show themselves to be a bunch of complete idiots in front of the entire a/s community. Not that I wanted the conference to be overshadowed by Watson/Myers and their sycophants, but since it happened, I'm very, very glad it happened the way it did. Lindsay gave the community a great gift.

[Kareem]

OT:

Shiiiiiiiiieeet~! Has anyone else watched the latest Doctor Who episode? That was one hell of a way to end it. My reaction, almost verbatim, was first a loud "Whuuuaaaaaaat?" Followed by laughter. (Mostly because of the bombastic way it was done.) Followed by rampantly checking online if anyone else had the same reaction. Haha, thinking about it still makes me snicker.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program.

Sadly, the writer has been labeled a misogynist by the keyboard activist crowd. Even Joss Whedon isn't feminist enough for some of them anymore.
I miss the 90's when all a show had to do to be considered feminist was show women doing awesome stuff. Now anything bad happening to a woman is considered misogyny, even if the same exact thing happens to men on the same exact show.

[Dick Strawkins]

Cue epic flouncing and rage tears and withdrawal of merch!

What are the "obvious reasons" why she needed to pack up early?
Was Vacula planning a re-enactment of Jesus versus the temple moneylenders?

[jjbinx007]

She can't just say "people who disagree with me". They have to be "harassers". And not just any old harassers - she says they are "her" harassers.

When she writes negative blog posts about people, she is (by her definition) harassing them isn't she?

[Notung]

I can't believe that from Pixlee. As far as I can tell, you've engaged with the conference, tweeted accurately about each talk, haven't disrupted anything, treated the whole conference with respect etc. etc. etc.

His tweet was totally unprovoked bullying, and I'm pleased Amanda Knief had the decency to point that out.

By the way, are any of you 'drosera' on Pharyngula right now? They just got banned for 'being a Slymepitter'.

[jjbinx007]

Meanwhile, over at the asylum:

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4736

The head of the organization that is sponsoring the event is pretty much saying "Ugh. I don't want to be sponsoring this event. Whiny feminists."

No, he said nothing of the sort. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

[jjbinx007]

By the way, are any of you 'drosera' on Pharyngula right now? They just got banned for 'being a Slymepitter'.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-621304

Apparently you’re unaware of the Slymepit. This is a group of MRAs (Men’s Rights Advocates) and misogynists who strenuously object to the idea that women are human beings. One of their complaints about women is the women’s insistence on talking in public and not remaining quiet like good females should be. Lindsay was basically telling these women “you say ‘shut up and listen’ and I’m not going to, in fact you should shut up.”

Incidently Slymepit is the name the misogynists chose for their little coterie.

Amazing.

[ERV]

Cue epic flouncing and rage tears and withdrawal of merch!

"Obv reasons"

-- Shes still drunk and doesnt want to sit at a table and barf on her merch
-- She wants to go get drunk
-- She was planning on doing other things since D1, but now she can 'blame' her decision on someone else to make them look bad

[AbsurdWalls]

Lsuoma: Can we have a new tagline?

"The Slymepit was formed by a woman who was told to Shut Up and Listen"

[Gumby]

The various members of the SGU panel probably have more skeletons in their closet than the storage room of the Ray Harryhausen museum.

:lol:

[jjbinx007]

I just searched for Drosera here and I can't find an account matching that name. PZ apparently found confirmation that s/h/it is a Slymepitter. What gives?

[AbsurdWalls]

I just searched for Drosera here and I can't find an account matching that name. PZ apparently found confirmation that s/h/it is a Slymepitter. What gives?

Confirmation = "PZ thinks so"?

My guess would be IP/email.

[Gumby]

By the way, are any of you 'drosera' on Pharyngula right now? They just got banned for 'being a Slymepitter'.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-621304

Apparently you’re unaware of the Slymepit. This is a group of MRAs (Men’s Rights Advocates) and misogynists who strenuously object to the idea that women are human beings. One of their complaints about women is the women’s insistence on talking in public and not remaining quiet like good females should be. Lindsay was basically telling these women “you say ‘shut up and listen’ and I’m not going to, in fact you should shut up.”

Incidently Slymepit is the name the misogynists chose for their little coterie.

Amazing.

Creationists everywhere are becoming insanely jealous of Peezus and Co.'s ability to stretch and deform reality.

[Wonky Donkey]

Cue epic flouncing and rage tears and withdrawal of merch!

What are the "obvious reasons" why she needed to pack up early?
Was Vacula planning a re-enactment of Jesus versus the temple moneylenders?

Obviously she's made a prize fool of herself, the usual threats and lies haven't worked out and her cupboard is bare. Oh, wait, what's that a forgotten jar of victimonaise! Lets spread that liberally.

Although its possible that someone even less attractive than her spoke to her in an elevator.

[welch]

By the way, are any of you 'drosera' on Pharyngula right now? They just got banned for 'being a Slymepitter'.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-621304

Apparently you’re unaware of the Slymepit. This is a group of MRAs (Men’s Rights Advocates) and misogynists who strenuously object to the idea that women are human beings. One of their complaints about women is the women’s insistence on talking in public and not remaining quiet like good females should be. Lindsay was basically telling these women “you say ‘shut up and listen’ and I’m not going to, in fact you should shut up.”

Incidently Slymepit is the name the misogynists chose for their little coterie.

Amazing.

Yeah, that's about right.

[Gumby]

Excellent post Gumby.

Thanks. A little heavy on the snark maybe, but I'm not feeling any obligation to be civil to those morons.

[Notung]

Amazing.

Haha I didn't see that. Drosera has just popped up on Ron's latest post (#113):

Haha. I have just been trying to defend Ronald Lindsay over at Pharyngula against the attempted character assassinations by PZ and his commentariat (thread called “It’s 4am and people are really annoyed”). Now I have been banned, supposedly because PZ “checked” and found that I had posted at the Slymepit. Okay, PZ, show me where I did that.

In reality he must have seen that I was wiping the floor with his stupid, bigoted commentariat. You can’t have that, can you?

[Zenspace]

Maybe a PR disaster for her friends. :popcorn:

Half the Slymepit? Must be a lot of missing posts, I only saw 3 or 4 Pyt members post, and they were reasonable posts. I actually structured mine to be very vanilla, but clearly supportive of Lindsey.

So what if people from the Pit post there, Melody? Christ, I love how you and your fellow assholes act like we don't have a right to comment. Fuck you.

Anyway, I've had a few posts as "Guesty" (I reserve "Gumby" for here). Here's my final comment (#109), and now I'm done with that thread because I've said what I wanted to say.

I think it’s very telling that in these comments there have already been several calls by the True Believers for Mr. Lindsay to

1) Have his “writing privileges” taken away
2) Be hauled before the CFI board and punished somehow
3) Be fired from CFI

How dare Lindsay say *anything* that doesn’t toe the FTB/Skepchick line! How dare he suggest that using tactics like “check your privilege” and “shut up and listen” are maybe, just maybe, silencing tactics and therefore antithetical to the principles of skeptical inquiry?

Here’s the real problem: People like PZ Myers, and by default his bootlicking minions, have been busy denouncing the whole skeptical movement. PZ even went so far as to dramatically “flounce” from skepticism. But they still go to events sponsored by organizations where skeptical inquiry is central to their mission. Then, when they get there and said skeptical inquiry results in opinions and questions that are not 100% aligned with the beliefs of people like FtB bloggers and their followers, then the toys start being thrown from the pram.

These people want all the benefits of events run by skeptical organizations while at the same time decrying skepticism as “bad” because it doesn’t make exemptions for *their* beliefs. Sorry PZ et. al., skepticism doesn’t work that way.

You all obviously want an echo chamber - that much is readily apparent just from a casual read of Freethought Blogs, Skepchick, and the bizarre asylum known as the AtheismPlus forum. Since you all hate skepticism so much, how’s about you parasites drop off from the host organism and form your own organization? One where you can hold your own conferences? You could form your own perfect little isolated bubble of self-imagined dogmatic superiority. Think of it as a mini-universe where you can all pat each other on the back in perfect lock-step agreement, without the big bad specter of actual skepticism peering over your shoulder, asking those uncomfortable questions that expose the inconsistencies and hypocrisies in your dogma.

You’d be better off, and happier. And the skeptic and atheist communities could actually get back to doing real work, no longer burdened by the need to play the role of the diplomat trying to coddle a bunch of self-important, vicious, bullying, irrational dogmatists who spit in the face of the very entity that’s been patiently trying to sponsor them.

Gefan, quite an excellent, straight to the point post. Well done. :clap:

[AbsurdWalls]

Ulysses
19 May 2013 at 8:02 am (UTC -5)

drosera @58

Since you’re the one making the claim the women at the Slymepit consider themselves to be human, it’s up to you to justify this claim. Be specific and give examples to support this dubious affirmation.

Also I don’t care to be called a liar. You may disagree with what I say but you do not get to call me a liar until you can prove my lies. I suggest you reconsider your accusation of “distort[ing] the truth.”

Any women want to pipe up and prove Ulysses a liar?