Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[ReneeHendricks]

Curious - did Gumby create this or was it someone else?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqJGkACYAEog2I.jpg:large

[zenbabe]

From Amanda Fuckwitte's open letter:

But seriously, she really needs to shut up, and I mean that as dismissively as possible. It takes some very bad faith and/or selective reading to get from Lindsay's speech what these people are taking. The entire thrust was about silencing: how it was wrong to do to women, how much better it is since they're not suffering the same silencing now, and how much worse it will get if they keep using tactics to silence men and women that don't share their groupthink. It was exactly on point as far as what WIS was supposed to be about regarding the direction of the women in secularism movement: "Hey ladies, being silenced sucks. Remember (reading about) that? It turns out some among you have taken a tactic doing just that to others. So, um, ladies, don't do that."

To find a problem with his speech just shows how much of a personal stake these people have in him being wrong about certain details.

(snipped a good chunk of your post for space, and btw lol at the "don't do that" line)

So much hyperbole in that post of hers. Reality passes through a lens of a mind which seems to have waaaaaay too many bad filters on it.

But, echoing the personal stake point of yours, the reason I suspect these people are freaking out so much is leaking out in this quote:

The thought leaders who have been angling for feminism to be a major concern of the secularist movement do not do this, and when Lindsay caved to demands that he provide examples, he was unable to do so. What he provided were two examples of prominent men who are telling other men to listen to women before they render judgment on women’s opinions. He also included a blog post from Daily Kos, a community website where anyone can start a blog. There’s no indication that this person, whose post was lengthy and poorly argued and probably isn’t even saying what Lindsay thinks at all, is a person who has much power over the conversation anyway.

Really dislike that last part especially. So dismissive. What, small voices can't have powerful ideas?

It's a huge naked power grab, and when the Jammy guy and now Lindsay have used their opportunities so very recently to publicly denounce PZ etc, the reaction of PZ etc looks like panic.

The more they panic the more it will fall apart for them, or such is my hope. From what I have read so far, they are not the ones I want to see as thought leaders since they don't appear to possess the thinking skills required for the task. She wants to be a person who has power over the conversation, since she's a Big Name, an Important Person at all these conferences and on the interwebs' tubes. Her ideas are bad, but respect hur authoritah, or she'll getchoo fired.

I fail to understand at this point how she and others like her came to any prominence in the first place, to the point that she believes she can force Lindsay out.

Pretty disgusting. But they're not going anywhere for a while, and not without a lot of fight and probably a lot of flouncing

(I discovered Franc's blog today :) )

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Curious - did Gumby create this or was it someone else?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqJGkACYAEog2I.jpg:large

Some renaissance guy might have been involved...

[AndrewV69]

You'd be surprised how many people are on that shit list by request. Now which one of you is pilgrim?

My evidence free assumption was that it was not a 'pitter. There are some names on that list that I do not recognize. That may have influenced my (probably faulty) supposition.

In any event there is no reason that someone here can not create a list is there? I nominate Phil to do so. You can leave me out as I am pseudonymous to the majority.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Those who donated to help send me to #WIScfi...and really anyone here from the Pit, especially the posters with more 'tenure'

You made #WIScfi happen for Karla and I...and this yet another crucial turning point in the movement.

Great things are happening because of this forum, its posters, associated allies, and those who fight back against dogma in this movement. We are a beacon of hope - restoring sanity to this movement and taking a stand against those who wish to corrupt it. PZ and company are losing hold of the community and their narrative as we stand strong to expose bullshit and demonstrate that we are making a difference.

They get more desperate and more desperate and self-implode, showing the 'moderates' and even the [former] dogmatists (many of which have completely turned away from FTB/A+/Skepchick including some who post here) all they need to see to question and see what is really going on when the man behind the curtain is revealed to be a lair, a coward, and the real "disinformation agent."

We are winning.

We will win.

Don't give up the fight. We all can make a difference using our talents in ways which work best for us and meet our goals...and that difference is being made. While we don't, of course, always agree and might employ different tactics, there is a common goal, I must say - along the lines of ridicule, exposing dogma, shining a bright light of skepticism, and doing what is right.

We take a stand.

We refuse to back down.

Even after we take some hits (and maybe even make some mistakes) we get back up and keep fighting. We learn from mistakes and push forward.

The names they call us and the tactics they use will not make us back down...and should not make us back down.

Keep up the good fight and make sure to continue eating the popcorn while we experience a great deal of laughter along the way.

:popcorn:

I really think that you need to decide exactly what category of player you are. Few (correct me if I'm wrong) of us aspire to be serious activists in this community, we just care about exposing bullshit, and that's why we can get away with calling people liars and bloviating cowards. We aren't politicians. You obviously aspire to more than that and I respect you for that and the effort you've put in. I would suggest being a little more circumspect than the rest of us if you aspire to being seen as more more than a common or garden Pitter because it will otherwise come back to bite you in the posterior.

[Clarence]

From Amanda Fuckwitte's open letter:

But seriously, she really needs to shut up, and I mean that as dismissively as possible. It takes some very bad faith and/or selective reading to get from Lindsay's speech what these people are taking. The entire thrust was about silencing: how it was wrong to do to women, how much better it is since they're not suffering the same silencing now, and how much worse it will get if they keep using tactics to silence men and women that don't share their groupthink. It was exactly on point as far as what WIS was supposed to be about regarding the direction of the women in secularism movement: "Hey ladies, being silenced sucks. Remember (reading about) that? It turns out some among you have taken a tactic doing just that to others. So, um, ladies, don't do that."

To find a problem with his speech just shows how much of a personal stake these people have in him being wrong about certain details.

(snipped a good chunk of your post for space, and btw lol at the "don't do that" line)

So much hyperbole in that post of hers. Reality passes through a lens of a mind which seems to have waaaaaay too many bad filters on it.

But, echoing the personal stake point of yours, the reason I suspect these people are freaking out so much is leaking out in this quote:

The thought leaders who have been angling for feminism to be a major concern of the secularist movement do not do this, and when Lindsay caved to demands that he provide examples, he was unable to do so. What he provided were two examples of prominent men who are telling other men to listen to women before they render judgment on women’s opinions. He also included a blog post from Daily Kos, a community website where anyone can start a blog. There’s no indication that this person, whose post was lengthy and poorly argued and probably isn’t even saying what Lindsay thinks at all, is a person who has much power over the conversation anyway.

Really dislike that last part especially. So dismissive. What, small voices can't have powerful ideas?

It's a huge naked power grab, and when the Jammy guy and now Lindsay have used their opportunities so very recently to publicly denounce PZ etc, the reaction of PZ etc looks like panic.

The more they panic the more it will fall apart for them, or such is my hope. From what I have read so far, they are not the ones I want to see as thought leaders since they don't appear to possess the thinking skills required for the task. She wants to be a person who has power over the conversation, since she's a Big Name, an Important Person at all these conferences and on the interwebs' tubes. Her ideas are bad, but respect hur authoritah, or she'll getchoo fired.

I fail to understand at this point how she and others like her came to any prominence in the first place, to the point that she believes she can force Lindsay out.

Pretty disgusting. But they're not going anywhere for a while, and not without a lot of fight and probably a lot of flouncing

(I discovered Franc's blog today :) )

Amanda Marcotte first came to the attention of the world through blogging.
Here's her first blog: http://mousewords.blogspot.com/
Somehow this became popular, and won some sort of blogging award. She then moved on to a much larger blog Pandagon.
Basically, since then she's made her living being outrageous. Basically acting as a feminist/progressive attack dog. She gained importance for her outspoken views, but those views cost her some times as well, such as when she was fired from being one of two (the other was Shakespeare's Sister) 'official bloggers' for the Edwards Presidential Campaign. She had irritated a large part of the Catholic Church and also had publically slimed the 3 falsely-accused Duke rape defendants even after they were declared "officially innocent" by the Attorney General of North Carolina.

I'm not sure how she got involved in the skeptical movement, but I'm willing to bet it was either someone she met through her 'progressive' circles or perhaps she just interacted with Rebecca Watson.

Anyway, she's kind of a Big Fish for online Progressives (though not as big as someone like Glenn Greenwald: I'd say she's one rung below) and Feminists but she's nothing outside of that.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Hold your horses there Becky, I agree with your statement, but who ever told you you were a leader in the skeptical community?

I see what you did there.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

She could always tutor these leaders in the Snerk, LOL, "Look, threats!" and set the dogs on 'em response.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Those who donated to help send me to #WIScfi...and really anyone here from the Pit, especially the posters with more 'tenure'
*snip*

I really think that you need to decide exactly what category of player you are. Few (correct me if I'm wrong) of us aspire to be serious activists in this community, we just care about exposing bullshit, and that's why we can get away with calling people liars and bloviating cowards. We aren't politicians. You obviously aspire to more than that and I respect you for that and the effort you've put in. I would suggest being a little more circumspect than the rest of us if you aspire to being seen as more more than a common or garden Pitter because it will otherwise come back to bite you in the posterior.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Justin, don't poison your stuff with the Pit that much. Aside from some good PR we've had latelly, some people, outside FTB/SkekChic. A+ are still weary of us. Do your stuff, use the pit as you see fit, ask for help as far as we can provide any. But don't push it, it will be a bad backlash if anything goes awery. What's more important: us here? Or the things you've been fighting for for years?

[The Tim Channel]

I was just thrust in this direction from a helpful kick in the balls by a friendly guide here at the pit. He said this is the place to be. Somebody pass me the blunt. It's been a long and wild ride getting here. I always thought the world would achieve Becky Burnout long before Justin Vacula could make a career out of it so I held off joining a long time. I apologize. I know you guys missed me here, but I have twittered, blogged, pinterested and prolifically posted about the dangers of the American Girlyban since the day after the coffee spilled. Now that the SlymePit is part of the parody can you blame me for wanting to sneak into the carnival?

Godspeed to Ron Lindsay. The latest in a long line of level headed humans doing their best to push back against the pestilence of PZ and his dwindling minions.

In general..no particular order...

What a seriously self deluded speech by Richard Carrier. I'm looking for alien invasion pods outside my window after that shit. Holy hell what a slobbering bunch of 100% "non divisive" goo that was.

The chick and the dongle. Seriously. That one really had to be lived thru. Like the OJ trial. Once in a lifetime chance to witness a low speed chase towards a rapidly receding reality. Rod Serling, of Twilight Zone fame, great as he was, never could have imagined a universe as bizarre as the one that lives in the minds of these new age femicrazies. Rebecca Watson getting drunk in first class, looking at her iPad and imaging rape threats like William Shatner looking out the window imaging gargoyles chewing off the wing. Delicious.

The tears and heart ache of the artisan class of #atheismplus over the "inappropriate" sloganeering of rival message groups accompanied by her ridiculous lament against sellers of "fake" jewelry while herself peddling what amounts to painted rocks definitely makes my top ten list.

Matt Dillahunty trying to make fools of everyone here while simultaneously showcasing the openess of #atheismplus forum. The incident where they blocked his ass and then kicked in his ballz for the effort? A classic. Specially poignant to me, having just been banned blocked or besmirched by him only a week or so earlier. Karma loves me. I am the world's most blessed atheist, a fact that irritates some of my religious friends to no end. I like to remind them the Bible has a couple of chapters named after me.

What else? Hmm. Crossed paths with a lot of cool tweetsters. Picked up on a couple new podcasts. the Vacula kid (didn't he do great in his Marriott vid! Make a mama proud) The Chill Girls and a Cadillac or Corvette, some US POS car. They ain't crazy. Missing the old noelplum99 but I love jumping dogs as much as the next guy (inside baseball). That Snakepliskinist guy on YouTube is worth checking out. That's some funny shit, I don't care who you are. Justicar's production values are as horrible as ever, his views on guns repulsive, his sexuality of no interest to me, yet I can't look away. I may need an intervention.

Out for now.

Enjoy.

[skepandsprinkles]

I'll just leave this here
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 1522_n.jpg

[Dick Strawkins]

Justin, don't poison your stuff with the Pit that much. Aside from some good PR we've had latelly, some people, outside FTB/SkekChic. A+ are still weary of us. Do your stuff, use the pit as you see fit, ask for help as far as we can provide any. But don't push it, it will be a bad backlash if anything goes awery. What's more important: us here? Or the things you've been fighting for for years?

Poison his stuff with the Pit?
I don't think that's his problem.
If he's associated with a site that requires it's detractors to make up lies about it then it is not going to be a long term problem.
Justin's problem is his association with AVFM, a site that can be criticised without the need to resort to lying. I know he doesn't have a direct connection but it is enough to frighten off neutral parties.

[d4m10n]

I still haven't been listed on this selection. What am I doing wrong?!?

I find it odd I'm not there either...

Dodging tornados right now. Will fix…

[Percentage]

I've joked about Chris Clone before, but in all seriousness... I'm not entirely sure that he's not just an elaborate Myers sockpuppet.

[ERV]

I still haven't been listed on this selection. What am I doing wrong?!?

I find it odd I'm not there either...

Dodging tornados right now. Will fix…

http://okcfox.com/news/features/live/

[Dick Strawkins]

http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_arti ... may-17-19#

[JayTeeAitch]

Hi The Tim Channel, great first post.

I don't think I have enough posts here to give you the proper welcome but I will anyway. FUCK OFF! :)

[Voryn]

I'll just leave this here
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 1522_n.jpg

After reading Elyse's (after) april fools article it doesn't surprise me about her wanting to take her(3-4yr old) daughter to a con. Something is just weird there, thought it might have been a jealousy thing but now I see it might just be a 'she doesn't quite understand young kids' thing.

[karlaporter]

I still haven't been listed on this selection. What am I doing wrong?!?

I find it odd I'm not there either...

Dodging tornados right now. Will fix…

Stay safe if you are in tornado territory..

[katamari Damassi]

Hey, are you the one who does reviews of atheist websites on your Christian blog thingy? :P

Has everyone here seen ChildCare Action Project? Reviews of movies from the fundie perspective. Look up "South Park, Bigger, Longer and Uncut"

Man,that takes me back. I can't believe the site still exists, and pretty much completely unchanged. My favorite reviews were the ones for Prince of Egypt, which got bad marks for predictably stupid but hilarious reasons, and Mary Poppins which at the time was I think the ONLY movie to get a perfect score...despite containing scenes of children being disobedient, and the use of witchcraft.

My favorite CAP Alert category was "Stature Nudity". Yes it means what you think it does, there was a naked statue in the movie.

[katamari Damassi]

Hey, are you the one who does reviews of atheist websites on your Christian blog thingy? :P

Has everyone here seen ChildCare Action Project? Reviews of movies from the fundie perspective. Look up "South Park, Bigger, Longer and Uncut"

Man,that takes me back. I can't believe the site still exists, and pretty much completely unchanged. My favorite reviews were the ones for Prince of Egypt, which got bad marks for predictably stupid but hilarious reasons, and Mary Poppins which at the time was I think the ONLY movie to get a perfect score...despite containing scenes of children being disobedient, and the use of witchcraft.

My favorite CAP Alert category was "Stature Nudity". Yes it means what you think it does, there was a naked statue in the movie.

Shit! That was supposed to read "Statue Nudity" not "Stature Nudity".

[katamari Damassi]

I'll just leave this here
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 1522_n.jpg

After reading Elyse's (after) april fools article it doesn't surprise me about her wanting to take her(3-4yr old) daughter to a con. Something is just weird there, thought it might have been a jealousy thing but now I see it might just be a 'she doesn't quite understand young kids' thing.

Lol Petting Zoo. I'm sure Justin would've let her pet his mustache.

[Cunning Punt]

The Edit Button. What sinister machination is this, Lsuoma? It teases me.

People on the super secret back channel get the edit button activated (after they've given me a BJ).

Fascist Tit.

Yes. You have to suck his fascist tits as well.

[ERV]

:(

http://kfor.com/on-air/live-streaming/

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/NdLgmwJ.jpg

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

From Amanda Fuckwitte's open letter:

But seriously, she really needs to shut up, and I mean that as dismissively as possible. It takes some very bad faith and/or selective reading to get from Lindsay's speech what these people are taking. The entire thrust was about silencing: how it was wrong to do to women, how much better it is since they're not suffering the same silencing now, and how much worse it will get if they keep using tactics to silence men and women that don't share their groupthink. It was exactly on point as far as what WIS was supposed to be about regarding the direction of the women in secularism movement: "Hey ladies, being silenced sucks. Remember (reading about) that? It turns out some among you have taken a tactic doing just that to others. So, um, ladies, don't do that."

To find a problem with his speech just shows how much of a personal stake these people have in him being wrong about certain details.

(snipped a good chunk of your post for space, and btw lol at the "don't do that" line)

So much hyperbole in that post of hers. Reality passes through a lens of a mind which seems to have waaaaaay too many bad filters on it.

But, echoing the personal stake point of yours, the reason I suspect these people are freaking out so much is leaking out in this quote:

The thought leaders who have been angling for feminism to be a major concern of the secularist movement do not do this, and when Lindsay caved to demands that he provide examples, he was unable to do so. What he provided were two examples of prominent men who are telling other men to listen to women before they render judgment on women’s opinions. He also included a blog post from Daily Kos, a community website where anyone can start a blog. There’s no indication that this person, whose post was lengthy and poorly argued and probably isn’t even saying what Lindsay thinks at all, is a person who has much power over the conversation anyway.

Really dislike that last part especially. So dismissive. What, small voices can't have powerful ideas?

It's a huge naked power grab, and when the Jammy guy and now Lindsay have used their opportunities so very recently to publicly denounce PZ etc, the reaction of PZ etc looks like panic.

The more they panic the more it will fall apart for them, or such is my hope. From what I have read so far, they are not the ones I want to see as thought leaders since they don't appear to possess the thinking skills required for the task. She wants to be a person who has power over the conversation, since she's a Big Name, an Important Person at all these conferences and on the interwebs' tubes. Her ideas are bad, but respect hur authoritah, or she'll getchoo fired.

I fail to understand at this point how she and others like her came to any prominence in the first place, to the point that she believes she can force Lindsay out.

Pretty disgusting. But they're not going anywhere for a while, and not without a lot of fight and probably a lot of flouncing

(I discovered Franc's blog today :) )

But an inconsequential tweeter or troll is ironclad proof of an anti-woman conspiracy in atheism? They can't keep the story consistent from minute-to-minute.

[Whig]

On the other hand, maybe the Board will be strongly influenced by disapproval from the likes of their Communications Director, Paul "I'm uncomfortable" Fidalgo, who appears to have a severe case of social anxiety, and their DC Director, who is quite public about her drug-seeking and susceptibility to panic attacks when she gets flak and criticism online. On the other other hand, if I were a Board-member I might have a talk with Lindsay about hiring practices.

The board is here:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/about/c ... governance

From a very quick look at some of these people's profiles, I doubt they are going to join the baboons on the fainting couch. The first one on the list, R. Elisabeth Cornwell, is with the Dawkins' Foundation as well, plus she's (gasp) an evolutionary psychologist.

She also made the closing speech at the conference and asked if the great 19th century skeptic and feminist Robert Ingersoll would be welcomed to the con despite being a man, the crowd did not respond. CfI tweeted that little exchange. So if any of this comes down to a board vote count (which I highly doubt) I think it's safe to put Cornwell in the pro-Lindsey camp.

[skepandsprinkles]

it continues
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6358_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 1939_n.jpg

Am I the only woman who finds the attitude of "Wah! They said something I think is mean! I'm taking my ball and going home" a horrible attitude for women to have? It's just insulting. I'm a woman who can dish it out and take it and I don't need a lord peezus to descend from on high and protect me from the big bad "misogynist haterz"

[katamari Damassi]

From Amanda Fuckwitte's open letter:

But seriously, she really needs to shut up, and I mean that as dismissively as possible. It takes some very bad faith and/or selective reading to get from Lindsay's speech what these people are taking. The entire thrust was about silencing: how it was wrong to do to women, how much better it is since they're not suffering the same silencing now, and how much worse it will get if they keep using tactics to silence men and women that don't share their groupthink. It was exactly on point as far as what WIS was supposed to be about regarding the direction of the women in secularism movement: "Hey ladies, being silenced sucks. Remember (reading about) that? It turns out some among you have taken a tactic doing just that to others. So, um, ladies, don't do that."

To find a problem with his speech just shows how much of a personal stake these people have in him being wrong about certain details.

(snipped a good chunk of your post for space, and btw lol at the "don't do that" line)

So much hyperbole in that post of hers. Reality passes through a lens of a mind which seems to have waaaaaay too many bad filters on it.

But, echoing the personal stake point of yours, the reason I suspect these people are freaking out so much is leaking out in this quote:

The thought leaders who have been angling for feminism to be a major concern of the secularist movement do not do this, and when Lindsay caved to demands that he provide examples, he was unable to do so. What he provided were two examples of prominent men who are telling other men to listen to women before they render judgment on women’s opinions. He also included a blog post from Daily Kos, a community website where anyone can start a blog. There’s no indication that this person, whose post was lengthy and poorly argued and probably isn’t even saying what Lindsay thinks at all, is a person who has much power over the conversation anyway.

Really dislike that last part especially. So dismissive. What, small voices can't have powerful ideas?

It's a huge naked power grab, and when the Jammy guy and now Lindsay have used their opportunities so very recently to publicly denounce PZ etc, the reaction of PZ etc looks like panic.

The more they panic the more it will fall apart for them, or such is my hope. From what I have read so far, they are not the ones I want to see as thought leaders since they don't appear to possess the thinking skills required for the task. She wants to be a person who has power over the conversation, since she's a Big Name, an Important Person at all these conferences and on the interwebs' tubes. Her ideas are bad, but respect hur authoritah, or she'll getchoo fired.

I fail to understand at this point how she and others like her came to any prominence in the first place, to the point that she believes she can force Lindsay out.

Pretty disgusting. But they're not going anywhere for a while, and not without a lot of fight and probably a lot of flouncing

(I discovered Franc's blog today :) )

Amanda Marcotte first came to the attention of the world through blogging.
Here's her first blog: http://mousewords.blogspot.com/
Somehow this became popular, and won some sort of blogging award. She then moved on to a much larger blog Pandagon.
Basically, since then she's made her living being outrageous. Basically acting as a feminist/progressive attack dog. She gained importance for her outspoken views, but those views cost her some times as well, such as when she was fired from being one of two (the other was Shakespeare's Sister) 'official bloggers' for the Edwards Presidential Campaign. She had irritated a large part of the Catholic Church and also had publically slimed the 3 falsely-accused Duke rape defendants even after they were declared "officially innocent" by the Attorney General of North Carolina.

I'm not sure how she got involved in the skeptical movement, but I'm willing to bet it was either someone she met through her 'progressive' circles or perhaps she just interacted with Rebecca Watson.

Anyway, she's kind of a Big Fish for online Progressives (though not as big as someone like Glenn Greenwald: I'd say she's one rung below) and Feminists but she's nothing outside of that.

I was a long time Pandagon reader and I remember with sadness when Jesse and Ezra turned it over to Marcotte, Pam Spaulding(I really like Pam), and some douchebag guy whom I cannot remember and can't be bothered to look up. The douchebag didn't last long, Pam was an intermittent poster(more rightly concerned with her own blog)and gradually drifted away from Pandagon, so it basically became Marcotte's blog. Except for a few issues that I had with her, I really thought she was okay. She stood up to the Shakesville lunatics who wanted her to make Pandagon a "safe space". She didn't start to go off the rails until the whole Duke lacrosse false rape accusations. Then EG happened and she jumped on that band wagon. It's been downhill ever since.
As I've said before though; there will come a struggle between Twatson and Marcotte, because Twatson is not going to like sharing the limelight.

[dogen]

Instead of the usual -
[youtube]BJQfT9C5Adc[/youtube]

This is for real... :shock:


wait for the little "squeak"

Oh my! Around the 0:45 mark, when he's got his finger in the woman's mouth --- that reminds me of the 'fish-hook' moment in the big fight scene of Gangs of New York.

[Gumby]

Waking up, catching up, pages behind...

But this ought to be posted.

http://i.imgur.com/Nd17WIx.jpg

Last night I said I'd bring my daughter to #wiscfi next year. In light of JV/AVFM, I think that's a bad idea. Not a safe space. :(

The threat narrative continues - that I am a threat to young girls/children/women? What the actual fuck?

It is quite clear - they are losing control of the 'anyone who disagrees with us is a monster narrative' and are now trying really hard to further discredit in the only way they know how - character assassination.

Not even ONE person who talked so much shit about my on FTB/A+/Skepchick/whatever directly engaged me at the conference despite the conference being 'their home turf' and a very likely plan set in motion to monitor my activities. Everyone had all the opportunities for debate and it was never had.

It's just a tactic designed to put more pressure on Ron Lindsay. The propaganda machine is at Warp 9 right now.

[acathode]

But what would an 'equivalent post' be?
Remember, we are talking about rape here.
The only equivalent thing I can think of is something like child sexual abuse.
Ask yourself: if Peezus wrote a long post saying that most abused children actually enjoyed the experience and fantasize about it happening again, giving lists of papers with statistics that seem to back up this hypothesis, and just a line at the bottom saying: “By the way, discount the previous fifteen paragraphs, it’s a test of your ability to spot fake statistics”, would you really think he’s done a good deed?

Don’t you think there’s a chance that real abuse survivors might read the post and fail to make it to the final reveal?
I think basic empathy for the feelings of abuse victims should override the desire to make a cheap point about fact checking. If you want to make that point then there are innumerable other targets you can aim for other than child abuse. Reading Elams post and follow-up post on it, it appears that he’s doing it for the hits. But it’s only getting that number of hits because of its controversial and heartless nature, not because it’s some genius test of skeptical fact-checking.

With equivalent, I didn't mean equally shocking, I mean equally pandering to his readers. A post about children enjoying being sexually abused would be equivalent only on a NAMBLA blog. An equivalent post on PZs blog would be a post aimed to pander to his feminist readers and their preconceptions. Say, something like a post with the headline "Study find 6 ouf of 10 men have though about raping a friend, 8 out 10 men consider rape to be a minor crime!", and then filled with a lot of stuff about rape culture, Schrödinger's rapist, etc.

Now, personally, I found the post pretty off-putting and even borderline disgusting before I got to the end, but I'm not really his usual reader. His usual readers, judging by a quick glance on the comment section, found much to agree with in the post, and licked much of it up, much the same way I'm thinking PZ's readers would lick up a post about how horrible and rapey men are. To those people, who find themselves nodding in agreement as they read, I'm not sure the sudden suckerpunch is such a cheap point? I think it could be a very potent lesson.

[Gumby]

Witch hunt continues by Amanda Marcotte and co.

An Open Letter to the Center for Inquiry

By Amanda Marcotte
Monday, May 20, 2013 9:40 EDT

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/20/a ... r-inquiry/

blah blah blah

To continue supporting CFI, I would like to feel that they are being run by a leader who knows what he’s doing. I do not have that confidence in Ron Lindsay.

From the comments:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... eafad8.jpg

With formidable intellects like Bruce McGlory, everyone should just give in now and cater to Myers/Watson's every whim. I mean, who could defeat such evidenced logic?

[Dilurk]

:(

http://kfor.com/on-air/live-streaming/

It's news up here in Canada. Wow. Watching cbc news. The debris. Stay safe Abbie.

[Gumby]

WTF kind of parent would think a secularism conference is an appropriate place to bring a 4yo?

Elyse supposedly shrivels at the thought of her young child within 50 miles of Vacula, but I bet she'd have no problem dragging the kid into the hotel bar to watch Aunt Becky barf all over the floor.

[Pitchguest]

:(

http://kfor.com/on-air/live-streaming/

What town is that? It looks like it was completely ripped apart. A farmer just said that he lost 75-100 horses. Shit. (And the transcriber apparently doesn't know how to spell "stupor" [stew por])

Hope everyone is ok.

[Whig]

it continues
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 6358_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 1939_n.jpg

Am I the only woman who finds the attitude of "Wah! They said something I think is mean! I'm taking my ball and going home" a horrible attitude for women to have? It's just insulting. I'm a woman who can dish it out and take it and I don't need a lord peezus to descend from on high and protect me from the big bad "misogynist haterz"

Did CFI even know Elam was around? I haven't watched all of Vacula's interrogat...err interview yet but it seemed like it was just in his hotel room. Why would CfI know who Vacula had in his room?

[Gumby]

He probably thought both of you would do some sort of fuss to justify a kick and ban. As you didn't do anything like that, the little shit now tries to point your behavior as cowardly. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yep, that's our Peezus!

[Cunning Punt]

Gee Mofo, I guess there will be 299 attendees at next year's WIS conference then.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I still haven't been listed on this selection. What am I doing wrong?!?

I find it odd I'm not there either...

Dodging tornados right now. Will fix…

Stay safe if you are in tornado territory..

And please avoid underbridges. Venturi says so.

[Pitchguest]

I still haven't been listed on this selection. What am I doing wrong?!?

I find it odd I'm not there either...

Dodging tornados right now. Will fix…

Stay safe if you are in tornado territory..

And please avoid underbridges. Venturi says so.

What? You're telling me this wouldn't work?

[youtube]lzYXUVmt9So[/youtube]

:cry:

[Whig]

Ugh, seeing stuff about the tornadoes in OK, heard that two schools were destroyed and no word on the kids. One tornado was 2.25 miles wide. Storms are still going on. Stay down OK.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1349229

[AbsurdWalls]

Justin, don't poison your stuff with the Pit that much. Aside from some good PR we've had latelly, some people, outside FTB/SkekChic. A+ are still weary of us. Do your stuff, use the pit as you see fit, ask for help as far as we can provide any. But don't push it, it will be a bad backlash if anything goes awery. What's more important: us here? Or the things you've been fighting for for years?

Poison his stuff with the Pit?
I don't think that's his problem.
If he's associated with a site that requires it's detractors to make up lies about it then it is not going to be a long term problem.
Justin's problem is his association with AVFM, a site that can be criticised without the need to resort to lying. I know he doesn't have a direct connection but it is enough to frighten off neutral parties.

Yes, that feigned innocence shtick is not going to fly with anyone willing to scratch the surface. People who dig deep are going to notice JV is keeping two sets of books on this.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

What? You're telling me this wouldn't work?

:cry:

No, I'd say this doesn't work often:

[youtube]lHBZylcxIvw[/youtube]

[Gumby]

Seriously though:
If these assholes try to push a meme that Mr. Vacula is dangerous to women and children I fully recommend (for both humor and to subvert these assholes) that Justin embraces the "Vacula/Dracula" connection. I guess he can be soooooooooo scary setting there in a corner, tweeting, and using his PIERCING EYES to oppress the marginalized and brainwash fence sitters... or something. And everyone knows you should keep vampires away from children. Well, except for that "Count" guy on Sesseemee Street, and that guy on the cereal box.

Actually, Justin should show just how harmless he is by volunteering to run WiS3's daycare next year. I'm sure that would be much appreciated by the attendees.

:whistle:

[Gumby]

[he] had some useful observations about the ongoing struggle for women’s equality, though it’s clear he is no expert on the matter and probably should have considered that before lecturing actual experts on the history of feminism about its own history.

So, what you're saying is that Rebecca Watson had no business lecturing people on evolutionary psychology? I agree.

[skepandsprinkles]

so Justin IS going to be the petting zoo next year. Elyse was right, CFI is lovin on him

[Gumby]

I appreciate the concern you and perhaps others may have had. I won't post the strategic tactical plan but please note mindful attention was paid to every detail in order to have an unevetful experience.

DETAILED STRATEGIC TACTICAL PLAN FOR UNEVENTFUL CONFERENCE:

1) Duct-tape Justin's mouth shut

[bovarchist]

Instead of the usual -
[youtube]BJQfT9C5Adc[/youtube]

This is for real... :shock:


wait for the little "squeak"

Oh my! Around the 0:45 mark, when he's got his finger in the woman's mouth --- that reminds me of the 'fish-hook' moment in the big fight scene of Gangs of New York.

The creepiest thing about that video is that almost every single one of his patients is young, female, and attractive. Beats the hell out of the typical OB-GYN's practice.

[DW Adams]

I guess I don't have enough fucks to give to get "DW fucking Adams" added to any lists anywhere. Just poor ol Skeeve languishing in PZ's dungeon.

[Gumby]

Hey folks, if we don't want JV to start getting all Messianic, maybe we shouldn't be putting his head on Jesus' body! :rimshot:

Too late. Justin would say I've been putting Jesus's body under Justin's head.

[Gumby]

Curious - did Gumby create this or was it someone else?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqJGkACYAEog2I.jpg:large

I did, and it was a shitty 30-second job. Someone at Pharyngula said it looked like it had been done with MS-Paint; I lol'ed.

I like this one better.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 238634.jpg

[ReneeHendricks]

Gumby - ok, thought so. Was just checking :)

[bovarchist]

What? You're telling me this wouldn't work?

:cry:

No, I'd say this doesn't work often:

[youtube]lHBZylcxIvw[/youtube]

Unless the tornado was a real monster, I'd probably just pull over and stay in my car.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Above a F2, I'd say run for it. But underpasses are no-no.

[deLurch]

WTF kind of parent would think a secularism conference is an appropriate place to bring a 4yo?

Devil's Advocate:
* A single parent who cannot find affordable babysitting for a weekend at home, but has been told that day care free of charge will be provided at the said event.

[d4m10n]

The atheist feminists have become so damn predictable at this point. Criticize them even in the slightest, and they start a campaign to get you banned, blacklisted, or sacked: http://storify.com/D4M10N/whom-will-they-target-next

[justinvacula]

Those who donated to help send me to #WIScfi...and really anyone here from the Pit, especially the posters with more 'tenure'
*snip*

I really think that you need to decide exactly what category of player you are. Few (correct me if I'm wrong) of us aspire to be serious activists in this community, we just care about exposing bullshit, and that's why we can get away with calling people liars and bloviating cowards. We aren't politicians. You obviously aspire to more than that and I respect you for that and the effort you've put in. I would suggest being a little more circumspect than the rest of us if you aspire to being seen as more more than a common or garden Pitter because it will otherwise come back to bite you in the posterior.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Justin, don't poison your stuff with the Pit that much. Aside from some good PR we've had latelly, some people, outside FTB/SkekChic. A+ are still weary of us. Do your stuff, use the pit as you see fit, ask for help as far as we can provide any. But don't push it, it will be a bad backlash if anything goes awery. What's more important: us here? Or the things you've been fighting for for years?

I'm not ashamed of posting here or being associated with posters of this forum. The community here is wonderful and, even though there are is some boogeyman narrative about the pit, I am happy to post here. I care about the movement, activism, etc. and will continue to post. My activism and everything else stands on its merits...and the only ones who really seem to care about associations with this forum are dogmatists and people who would throw me under the bus or discount me anyway. If I lose opportunities because I post here, and that would be unfortunate so be it. I'm not around to placate.

I was thinking this weekend, and in recent months, about considering PZ and co. as allies - mainly because they had previously promoted my content and activism (PZ and Jen, just to name one item, has promoted my bus ad campaign and drawn a great deal of attention to it). I no longer consider them allies and don't want their support. I would rather be out and challenging dogma rather than nodding my head yes or outright tolerating dogmatists who are a blight on this movement.

Perhaps, though, it may be prudent to post less frequently and be a bit quieter...? Perhaps. Perhaps not. What are the consequences of activity, not only my own, on the Pit and elsewhere? We have accomplished great things and, without this sort of 'activism' and shining a light on the nonsense there would be less hope and more dogmatism in the movement and fewer people challenging the dogmatists or noticing what is really going on - outside the narrative #ftbullies construct.

What if, I wonder, Abbie never started the historic threads on ERV and challenged Watson? What if Rose St Clair and Stef never challenged Watson? What if people like Justicar, Scented Nectar, Tuvok, and so many of the older names who are still fighting the good fight never stepped up or stepped back/aside/awat because of concerns of 'well, this stuff might compromise x, y, z?' Perhaps if I were to start all over again I would have been anonymous, but that's not the case and I find it important to put a face on my work rather than being anonymous - to bring with the criticism credibility and hopefully inspire others -- as Paula Kirby did -- to take a stand.

[Zenspace]

Hi The Tim Channel, great first post.

I don't think I have enough posts here to give you the proper welcome but I will anyway. FUCK OFF! :)

<sniffle>

They grow up so fast...

[bovarchist]

Oh look, PZ has a picture up of all the people he could find willing to be photographed with him. Look long and hard, folks. These are the bright lights of a generation.

Sorry, a 'small fraction' of the bright lights of a generation.

[deLurch]

About Paul Elam/A Voice For Men:

Thank you for the very good overview.

no matter what they say or do some are simply going to dismiss them as misogynists and every other name in the book you can throw at them. So they are not in as much need of 'good PR'

Their approach is not the one I would take. I understand people making different tactical decisions, but I personally would think that there would be a huge advantage in targeting arguments that your average Joe or Jane would accept.

His shocktop approach is not that different from feminist PR campaigns such as "Kill All Men." Yes, you will get attention. But you have immediately disgusted and turned off 95% of the population even before they get to the point of even considering any of your other positions. I guess if your premise is that any attention is better than none, so be it. But unless you have a good healthy middle ground group not associated with them espousing arguments that are more accessible, the shock approach may be wasted.