The main pushers over here were the left -wing, with the leader of the charge being HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".cunt wrote:I don't know about the states, but over here the media that pushed the anti-vax horsehit were the right wing tabloids. They love a good scare.Wonderist wrote:And, while I don't think it's nearly as bad as the US rightwing media, Git's claim that there are examples of leftwing media shenanigans is not entirely untrue. I don't have any specific US-related ones at the moment, and honestly couldn't give a shit whether this article comes from a 'left' or 'right' news org, the fact is that many left-leaning folks are buying into this anti-science propaganda coming from various news outlets: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... crops.htmlGit wrote:http://bbcwatch.org/ and http://cifwatch.com are just two websites collecting examples of how (mainly) leftist media lie their heads off time and time again.
The posters above (like their fellow liberals) are the prime reason I refuse to call myself a liberal, despite probably having many policy positions in common with them. Here's a fucking great big hint: I'll never be as fucking sanctimonious and arrogant as they.
Specific debunkings of claims in that article:
the claim that the recent suicides are due *solely* to GM-related corporate abuse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers%27 ... s_in_India
http://ksj.mit.edu/tracker/2013/03/demo ... ineered-cr
http://www.nature.com/news/case-studies ... ps-1.12907
Anti-vaccine propaganda is another good example of largely left-ish anti-fact nonsense. I'm far more 'left-wing' than most Americans, but to deny that the 'left' (whatever that means) doesn't have its own bugbears, especially given our many revelations about feminist dogma/propaganda (largely leftist itself), seems incautious at best.
Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
My condolences. My aunt passed just last year.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I've just learned my uncle is in a coma now and probably won't pass the night.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Whining? I was celebrating it.Remick wrote:I don't give a shit whether you are right, left, whatever. I was speaking to your whining about being ignored, nothing to do with your politics or lack there of.Git wrote:Ah yes, how dare I be something other than a card-carrying progressive or leftist eh?Remick wrote:But don't ignore him, or you are Peezus. Ignoring him is tone trolling.... Holy shit, it Git a mod at A+?Cunning Punt wrote:
You really are a fucking moron, aren't you?
Scratch a liberal, find a fascist underneath.
Is it your reading or comprehension that is lacking? Either way, I think it is plain to see why I mostly ignore you.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
The fucker.Gefan wrote:They all do.Mykeru wrote: ...My dentist is a former Army artillery officer with a disposition to match. I bet he does play golf.
It's a great strategy for confusing Republicans.
Generally, Republicans have the right idea about unions but they tend to lose focus when they keep running into the members of certain "trade associations" on the eighteenth green.
When I went in there last time after he did the X-Rays (and his assistants must be trained to stick the plate in your mouth at such an angle so it's like giving a guillotine a blow job) he started poking around with a scalar so enthusiastically that that which did not hurt joined the party.
Screw the greens. I'll air horn him right from the chair.
Well, not hard considering it was all in your head.AnonymousCowherd wrote:
Yeah. I psyched it out.
:rimshot:
Zenspace:
One thing I'm glad I didn't inherit from the Scots side is a congenital heart defect. My Aunt Fiona died in her sleep when she was 18. My Maternal grandfather died in his 50s when I was seven. I still remember the massive horseshoe scar on his chest from opening him up again and again.
As scary as it is, this is the best time and the best place in history to have a bypass. I bet they fix him right up.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
I'm still waiting to hear your opinion of the two dissents that were linked to, both of which are fairly detailed about what look to be fundamental methodology issues that result in the ACLU being almost as conservative as the NRA, and more conservative than the RAND group.Mark Thomas wrote:I quite agree with Shermer. But his thoughts apply as equally to welch, remick, and wonderist.Steersman wrote:Good points; quite agree.Wonderist wrote:Why do you think it's a trick? It's more likely he actually believes it. People really do believe ridiculous shit. I mean, theists? WMDs? George W. Bush as being somebody worth voting for? Twice? Of even being worth nominating as a candidate?welch wrote:No, he pulls a common trick. he assumes no one will check his sources, because after all, he cited them. What more can you expect?Remick wrote: It's funny how when you read up on the entire thing, it's not quite what you make it out to be. Funny that.
Reading Comprehension seems to be a weak spot for our new buddy Mark
Or Allah's afterlife, worth flying a plane into a building over? Or how about rampant sexism and misogyny in the atheist/skeptic community? Fact: People believe ridiculous shit.
Give the guy a break, he's probably new to the facts here. Experiencing a bunch of cognitive dissonance. Keep poking holes in his claims, but at least give him a chance to recuperate from his mistakes and catch some breath. Cognitive dissonance is a nasty tasting medicine, and too much too fast can fry some folks' nervous systems.
Apropos of which is this bit from Shermer’s The Believing Brain – highly recommended:
As you say, cognitive dissonance. And simple filtering through various lenses or coloured by various biases. Rather difficult to disentangle at times.As we saw in the previous chapter, politics is filled with self-justifying rationalizations. Democrats see the world through liberal-tinted glasses, while Republicans filter it through conservative shaded glasses. When you listen to both “conservative talk radio†and “progressive talk radio†you will hear current events interpreted in ways that are 180 degrees out of phase. So incongruent are the interpretations of even the simplest goings-on in the daily news that you wonder if they can possibly be talking about the same event. Social psychologist Geoffrey Cohen quantified this effect in a study in which he discovered that Democrats are more accepting of a welfare program if they believe it was proposed by a fellow Democrat, even if the proposal came from a Republican and is quite restrictive. Predictably, Cohen found the same effect for Republicans who were far more likely to approve of a generous welfare program if they thought it was proposed by a fellow Republican. In other words, even when examining the exact same data people from both parties arrive at radically different conclusions. [pg #263] (my emphasis)
But “Steersmanism� :-)
I also have a different opinion about who was poking holes in who's theories.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
... said the theist to the atheist. :roll:Mark Thomas wrote:I quite agree with Shermer. But his thoughts apply as equally to welch, remick, and wonderist.
I also have a different opinion about who was poking holes in who's theories.
One question, Mark, assuming you are in the age range to answer: Have you ever voted for George W. Bush? If so, I rest my case.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
It, and the media matters link I posted show what look like some fundamental methodology issues. That's one of the problems with using overly simplistic assumptions. It also ignores the greater reality, which is the media is biased more against whomever is in power, regardless of their political views.Remick wrote:Did you actually read the review of his book I posted from Amazon, I think it does a good job explaining why it is biased.Mark Thomas wrote:Here is the whole quote from Groseclose:welch wrote:It's a fairly standard way to bullshit the normal people. Invoke the POWER OF COMP-U-TAR!Gefan wrote:Actually, it's worse than that. I know basically jack shit about computers and it's stupid to me too.welch wrote: ...The computer executes what it is told to execute, nothing more. From where does it get the data and execution instructions? In this case, Tim. So again, Tim's statement that his methods are 'completely objective' because 'a computer executes them' is stupid to anyone who knows anything about computers.
Once the computer selects its own data input he can get back to me.
This has gone from amusing to depressing.
works until you run into someone who knows what actually goes on.
"There. I have now done something that almost no journalist will ever do. I’ve given you a detailed account of my political views, including some information about my political heroes and the birthplace that influenced those views.
Is this book biased? On one level, it matters not a whit where I was born or what my political views are. The methods that I use to measure media bias are completely objective—indeed, a computer executes them.
But on another level my views and background do matter. As I will explain, the topics that journalists choose depend partly upon their political views and the views of the people who surround them. So let me admit, I don’t think I would have written a book about media bias if I weren’t conservative..."
He is actually making exactly the opposite argument than the one you ascribe to him - bias is important. But it is equally important in his mind to recognize your own biases. He argues elsewhere that journalists should disclose their own political biases - which is one of the reasons he details his political influences.
One again, if you have a principled of his media bias arguments - and they exist - I'm all ears.
It's not like Bill Clinton got nothing but handjobs from the media. Interns, sure, but not the media, or is it only the old pharts who remember the "vast right-wing conspiracy"? VInce Foster anyone? Right.
Jimmy Carter was excoriated from pretty much day 1 of his term, and the media did a damned good job of making him look like an idiot, even though even a *casual* look at his academic and military background show him to be one of smartest people to ever hold that office, and had the most military experience of anyone since Eisenhower. But, for 4 years, he was a bumpkin peanut farmer.
The media is biased against the powerful more than anything. Which isn't actually bad as far as i'm concerned.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Git's claim isn't the issue, is that he was responding to a call for evidence. He hasn't provided any. It would be as if I said, "There is definitely life on other planets, just go look, but it is there". I could be 100% correct (and probably am) but that doesn't mean that I have done anything at this point or provided the evidence asked for.Wonderist wrote:And, while I don't think it's nearly as bad as the US rightwing media, Git's claim that there are examples of leftwing media shenanigans is not entirely untrue. I don't have any specific US-related ones at the moment, and honestly couldn't give a shit whether this article comes from a 'left' or 'right' news org, the fact is that many left-leaning folks are buying into this anti-science propaganda coming from various news outlets: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... crops.htmlGit wrote:http://bbcwatch.org/ and http://cifwatch.com are just two websites collecting examples of how (mainly) leftist media lie their heads off time and time again.
The posters above (like their fellow liberals) are the prime reason I refuse to call myself a liberal, despite probably having many policy positions in common with them. Here's a fucking great big hint: I'll never be as fucking sanctimonious and arrogant as they.
Specific debunkings of claims in that article:
the claim that the recent suicides are due *solely* to GM-related corporate abuse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers%27 ... s_in_India
http://ksj.mit.edu/tracker/2013/03/demo ... ineered-cr
http://www.nature.com/news/case-studies ... ps-1.12907
Anti-vaccine propaganda is another good example of largely left-ish anti-fact nonsense. I'm far more 'left-wing' than most Americans, but to deny that the 'left' (whatever that means) doesn't have its own bugbears, especially given our many revelations about feminist dogma/propaganda (largely leftist itself), seems incautious at best.
Stop defending people for the sake of it. Git is perfectly capable to provide his own evidence if he can find it.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
If they're that desperate to get publicly flogged there are easier ways to go about it. Have them call Greta Christina, she'll hook them up.Clarence wrote:About the Femen 4 :
...I do understand Tunisia's point of view a bit: interlopers (mostly foreign)who want religious laws popular with the majority of the populace changed. So while I hope nothing bad happens to these 4 , if it's a very short prison sentence or a very mild flogging (4 lashes I guess) or less I'm not really going to care...
Possibly, literally :think:
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Indeed. I find it funny that someone like me, so often accused of being a tree-hugger, regularly misses republicans like Goldwater, Nixon, et al. Especially later Goldwater, he was kind of awesome.Tribble wrote:Mark Thomas wrote: And a voice from the opposite end of the political spectrum could suggest that Obama has taken the Democratic Party off the cliff in the opposite direction - could Bill Clinton, who reformed welfare and signed DOMA, be elected today? His wife certainly wasn't.
I not arguing any political positions - I'm offering an assertion supported by the scholarly work of a professor of political science at UCLA. Almost all of the mainstream media skews left, Fox News skews right.
Im also not convinced by the "corporate media" argument (someone else here argued this point), corporations aren't inherently conservative and in fact many of them (GE, Facebook, Apple) lean decidedly to the left (and they have reasons for doing so).
I'm 52 years old and I have watched the Overton Window shift dramatically over the past twenty years. Obama is about the same as Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush I when it comes to politics. Clinton was closer to Reagan than any 'liberal democrat' you may imagine and Obama is about the same.
In fact, if Saint Ronnie was running for President now, he'd have to run on the Democratic ticket to stand a chance of getting elected.
When congressional voting records (issue based) are compared today (apples to apples) with the 1970s and 1980s, the most conservative Republicans of those days would possess the same voting records as moderate and blue dog Democrats of today possess. And old-school Republican/Conservatives (such as myself) know this and we talk about it amongst ourselves.
And it's not like conservatives of yore are unawares. I was listening to the Diane Rheem show last year and a former conservative congressman brought that point out. (I'm trying to remember the man's name and coming up blank) He pointed out that AS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN OF HIS DAY, he would now be 'too liberal' for today's Republican party based on his voting record on like-issues of today which means he'd likely be unseated by a Tea Party candidate.
And, of course, we've seen many conservatives hounded out or attacked because they've said the same thing. Dole. Bennett. Sullivan. etc. etc. etc.
This has been studied to death by voting record. Not by some wingnut apologists or what not. But people who actually care about these things. So, please, just stop. You're making a fool out of yourself.
Although the Reagan thing is kind of creepy. there's the actual person and his record, which is not hidden away somewhere, and the fetish totem of the right wing.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Clarence,Clarence wrote:Having a brother who nearly died himself (though of a different ailment) and losing a cousin lately, I do wish to extend my well-wishes and hopes for his continued recovery.BarnOwl wrote:Best wishes for successful surgery and a speedy recovery for your brother, Zenspace. It's pretty amazing how quickly bypass surgery can improve someone's condition ... it fits with the characterization of surgeons as people who demand immediate results, and are impatient for the improvement of their patients. After your brother's surgery, there will be a person (usually an aide or LVN) who will make him sit up on the edge of the bed and dangle his legs. Then that person* will help him stand and walk to a chair. Your brother may hate and curse that person, but he or she is a necessary part of the recovery process. The longer a post-op bypass patient stays in bed after surgery, the more difficult it becomes to get up the first time.Zenspace wrote:Thanks, Skep tickle. The good news is that he did not have an actual heart attack. The bad news is he very, very nearly did, having some near complete blockages. It looks like he will be fine once the surgery is completed.Skep tickle wrote:Sorry to hear about your brother, Zenspace. Glad he was able to get to medical care quickly, and I hope his surgery goes well.Zenspace wrote:I'm feeling dramatic tonight. :dance: (just got back from the hospital. Brother has a close call with a heart attack and was delivered by ambulance. Looks like a quadruple bypass for him in a few days.)
My comment is more of a metaphor, but I hope the desperation bit is true. It certainly does seem to be showing in their behavior of late (or were they always this fucked up?)
On another note, how are things pulling together out your way?
I live only a few minutes from the hospital, so I can visit and annoy him pretty much on a daily basis while he is in there. After all, what are big brothers for? :D
* I was that person for many patients when I worked on a cardiovascular ward. Sometimes the patient wants family around when they first sit up, other times not. I always let them decide that part, but they had no choice about having to sit up and then walk.
Thanks. There is an underlying irony to the situation in that not only am I the older brother, but I'm the one who led the comparatively 'wild 'n wooly' life: drugs, alcohol, partying, general fun-type of misbehavior, but was always active in the outdoors and generally ate a pretty healthy diet (not vegetarian by any means, either). My brother, on the other hand, was the jock and always toed the well-behaved line and ate a typical Western diet. There is a lesson on there somewhere.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
welch wrote: It, and the media matters link I posted show what look like some fundamental methodology issues. That's one of the problems with using overly simplistic assumptions. It also ignores the greater reality, which is the media is biased more against whomever is in power, regardless of their political views.
It's not like Bill Clinton got nothing but handjobs from the media. Interns, sure, but not the media, or is it only the old pharts who remember the "vast right-wing conspiracy"? VInce Foster anyone? Right.
Jimmy Carter was excoriated from pretty much day 1 of his term, and the media did a damned good job of making him look like an idiot, even though even a *casual* look at his academic and military background show him to be one of smartest people to ever hold that office, and had the most military experience of anyone since Eisenhower. But, for 4 years, he was a bumpkin peanut farmer.
The media is biased against the powerful more than anything. Which isn't actually bad as far as i'm concerned.
During US presidential elections the media loves to focus on the horse race aspects of the campaigns and will often try to oversell underdog candidates. In 2012 there seemed to be a lot of talk about Romney "game changers" and how he could really challenge Obama. For the most part the mainstream media seemed to concern troll the Obama campaign.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
He should change the title. He doesn't appear be very happy to me.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Assuming it is the same person who has the OB parody twitter account, maybe they are actually trying to sign the petition with their pseudonym? :think: But then the very next name is "Paul Zachary Myerr", so I think not.FrankGrimes wrote:Ophelia F Benson has signed the petition again. Oh the harassment!
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
:shock: Yeah, that's a good one to miss!Mykeru wrote:
Zenspace:
One thing I'm glad I didn't inherit from the Scots side is a congenital heart defect. My Aunt Fiona died in her sleep when she was 18. My Maternal grandfather died in his 50s when I was seven. I still remember the massive horseshoe scar on his chest from opening him up again and again.
As scary as it is, this is the best time and the best place in history to have a bypass. I bet they fix him right up.
I'm approaching sixty and know a lot of people who have gone through similar procedures so have a pretty good perspective on it. Of course, I'm not the one receiving the surgery! I spent most of last evening playing the whole thing down to him and the rest of the family - just a fancy, high-end plumbing job these days. My Dad even said he is lucky it was surgery and NOT plumbing, which would cost him a lot more! :lol: I expect he will be good as new soon afterwards.
My family has a propensity for no major heritable health issues - my brother is a major exception to the family history. My grandparents on my paternal only recently passed. We tend to live into our 90's and remain sharp, active and annoying right to the end. My grandfather was after my Dad to buy him a motorcycle so he could 'pick up the chicks' a year after Gram passed. He was 93. :dance:
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
I forget, is being old a privilege or is it worth victim points because of ageism. At what age does it switch? Does having a penis matter in this equation?Zenspace wrote::shock: Yeah, that's a good one to miss!Mykeru wrote:
Zenspace:
One thing I'm glad I didn't inherit from the Scots side is a congenital heart defect. My Aunt Fiona died in her sleep when she was 18. My Maternal grandfather died in his 50s when I was seven. I still remember the massive horseshoe scar on his chest from opening him up again and again.
As scary as it is, this is the best time and the best place in history to have a bypass. I bet they fix him right up.
I'm approaching sixty and know a lot of people who have gone through similar procedures so have a pretty good perspective on it. Of course, I'm not the one receiving the surgery! I spent most of last evening playing the whole thing down to him and the rest of the family - just a fancy, high-end plumbing job these days. My Dad even said he is lucky it was surgery and NOT plumbing, which would cost him a lot more! :lol: I expect he will be good as new soon afterwards.
My family has a propensity for no major heritable health issues - my brother is a major exception to the family history. My grandparents on my paternal only recently passed. We tend to live into our 90's and remain sharp, active and annoying right to the end. My grandfather was after my Dad to buy him a motorcycle so he could 'pick up the chicks' a year after Gram passed. He was 93. :dance:
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Well, it's pretty much a cliche by now that when the news covers someone who has lived to some tree-like age, often referred to as the "kill me" stage of life, they send some bright young thing out to interview the old fucker in the home and, asking a question even the senile are probably tired of, have to have the wizened old fucker recount their secret to longevity.Zenspace wrote:
Thanks. There is an underlying irony to the situation in that not only am I the older brother, but I'm the one who led the comparatively 'wild 'n wooly' life: drugs, alcohol, partying, general fun-type of misbehavior, but was always active in the outdoors and generally ate a pretty healthy diet (not vegetarian by any means, either). My brother, on the other hand, was the jock and always toed the well-behaved line and ate a typical Western diet. There is a lesson on there somewhere.
The old person smiles and says something like "Whiskey, bacon and bareback anal"
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
LMU wrote:Assuming it is the same person who has the OB parody twitter account, maybe they are actually trying to sign the petition with their pseudonym? :think: But then the very next name is "Paul Zachary Myerr", so I think not.FrankGrimes wrote:Ophelia F Benson has signed the petition again. Oh the harassment!
I wouldn't call that a parody account - it's an impersonation account.
Parody accounts are those like @angryskepchick
At least we learned something from these signings.
The impersonator is someone obsessed with Ophelia Benson, and based in Australia.
:think:
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Meh, either way, Your fascist comment makes no sense. But keep trolling along if you want.Git wrote:Whining? I was celebrating it.Remick wrote:I don't give a shit whether you are right, left, whatever. I was speaking to your whining about being ignored, nothing to do with your politics or lack there of.Git wrote:Ah yes, how dare I be something other than a card-carrying progressive or leftist eh?Remick wrote:But don't ignore him, or you are Peezus. Ignoring him is tone trolling.... Holy shit, it Git a mod at A+?Cunning Punt wrote:
You really are a fucking moron, aren't you?
Scratch a liberal, find a fascist underneath.
Is it your reading or comprehension that is lacking? Either way, I think it is plain to see why I mostly ignore you.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
As I said before, the solution is obvious. They can set up their own conference, then we can all see for ourselves.CommanderTuvok wrote:Have a gander at this shit-for-brains.
One of Ophelia's cunt worshippers claims Skepchick was responsible for TAM's success in recent years!!! Illusions of grandeur, indeed.
http://i.imgur.com/TizsRuz.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
:lol:
But as others said in response, that would take work.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Well. THAT made for a classic coffee-spray moment... :lol:Mykeru wrote:Well, it's pretty much a cliche by now that when the news covers someone who has lived to some tree-like age, often referred to as the "kill me" stage of life, they send some bright young thing out to interview the old fucker in the home and, asking a question even the senile are probably tired of, have to have the wizened old fucker recount their secret to longevity.Zenspace wrote:
Thanks. There is an underlying irony to the situation in that not only am I the older brother, but I'm the one who led the comparatively 'wild 'n wooly' life: drugs, alcohol, partying, general fun-type of misbehavior, but was always active in the outdoors and generally ate a pretty healthy diet (not vegetarian by any means, either). My brother, on the other hand, was the jock and always toed the well-behaved line and ate a typical Western diet. There is a lesson on there somewhere.
The old person smiles and says something like "Whiskey, bacon and bareback anal"
And, true, too. Like that 115 year old woman recently interviewed just as you describe: "bacon, every day at every meal!" Love it!
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Oh, I got that beatZenspace wrote::shock: Yeah, that's a good one to miss!Mykeru wrote:
Zenspace:
One thing I'm glad I didn't inherit from the Scots side is a congenital heart defect. My Aunt Fiona died in her sleep when she was 18. My Maternal grandfather died in his 50s when I was seven. I still remember the massive horseshoe scar on his chest from opening him up again and again.
As scary as it is, this is the best time and the best place in history to have a bypass. I bet they fix him right up.
I'm approaching sixty and know a lot of people who have gone through similar procedures so have a pretty good perspective on it. Of course, I'm not the one receiving the surgery! I spent most of last evening playing the whole thing down to him and the rest of the family - just a fancy, high-end plumbing job these days. My Dad even said he is lucky it was surgery and NOT plumbing, which would cost him a lot more! :lol: I expect he will be good as new soon afterwards.
My family has a propensity for no major heritable health issues - my brother is a major exception to the family history. My grandparents on my paternal only recently passed. We tend to live into our 90's and remain sharp, active and annoying right to the end. My grandfather was after my Dad to buy him a motorcycle so he could 'pick up the chicks' a year after Gram passed. He was 93. :dance:
My Great-Uncle Victor, my father's Uncle and my grandmother's brother is in his 90s now. For the longest time the family thought he was drafted into WWII. He enlisted and got into the "Ghost Army" the tactical deception unit and was an alumni of the Battle of the Bulge. His wife died of a heart defect when she was 30, there's a photo of them where he lives with his granddaughter showing Victor in his army duds with this pretty Andrews-sister looking Italian woman.
Victor never remarried and was quite the ladies man. As a kid when he was pushing 60 he still arrived places with a couple chicks on his arm. In fact, he's still on good terms with old girlfriends, so he must have done something right. He lived alone in Brooklyn before he moved in with his grandaughter and was out and about. In his 80s, I'm told he was out shoveling snow when an Orthodox Jewish guy came up to him to say something like "You shouldn't be doing that, pops" and noticed his army combat veteran lapel pin.
"You were in the Army?" The guy asked, and Victor affirmed. He asked what war was he in and Victor said "World War II". The Orthodox Jewish guy then asked "Where did you fight?" And Victor said "Germany". The guy took a beat and couldn't think of anything to say but "Thank you". Which meant the world to Victor.
He couldn't talk about all the things he did, The 23rd Headquarters Special Troops was pretty much secret for 50 years. And he only recently started talking about what he lived through, including being a short guy and having a bullet travel over him and blow the head off the guy he was talking to, and seeing people who wok up frozen to death in the Ardennes Forest. But it was the kind of stuff that obviously gives one perspective and whatever you threw at him, he's roll with it.
Tough little fucker.
So anyway, when Victor turned 87 he had to have a pacemaker installed. The doctor that did the surgery told him the pacemaker would last 25 years.
"Yeah?" Victor said, "Then what'll we do?"
It's all attitude.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
And that sentence right there sums up this idiocy. If Ariana Huffington is "Liberal" I'm Fidel mother-fucking Castro. The bottom line is the U.S. has a Centrist/Beltway/Corporate Media...and Fox News.welch wrote: ...HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Facist!Angry_Drunk wrote:And that sentence right there sums up this idiocy. If Ariana Huffington is "Liberal" I'm Fidel mother-fucking Castro. The bottom line is the U.S. has a Centrist/Beltway/Corporate Media...and Fox News.welch wrote: ...HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Or Ireland, apparently. Or the US before that. Or using a proxy. :think:Dick Strawkins wrote:LMU wrote:Assuming it is the same person who has the OB parody twitter account, maybe they are actually trying to sign the petition with their pseudonym? :think: But then the very next name is "Paul Zachary Myerr", so I think not.FrankGrimes wrote:Ophelia F Benson has signed the petition again. Oh the harassment!
I wouldn't call that a parody account - it's an impersonation account.
Parody accounts are those like @angryskepchick
At least we learned something from these signings.
The impersonator is someone obsessed with Ophelia Benson, and based in Australia.
:think:
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
It takes more than guts: I can easily imagine the riots and the chaos in an Indian or Pakistani mosque if women walked in from their section (in mosques women generally sit separate from men) and started stripping. I do not believe they would survive, and, to boot, even those women that did not participate would get a thorough beating, just, well, for being women and potential strippers.Clarence wrote:About the Femen 4 :
....
It takes guts for them to take on Islam in an Islamic country because Sharia does not play. So I give them props for that.
....
One way that a real impact can be made for women's rights is to encourage parents to send their daughters for higher education and insist that do not marry unless they finish college. A good degree with potential for earning money is one of the best inducements for husbands to allow their wives out of the house. Thats what happened with my mom: initially my dad loved the idea of having a second income. He simply did not realize that my mom, with her PhD, would soon be making several times he could as a store-keeper. This was really the bigger insult to him, rather than my mom working.
Another idea is to strongly discourage use of religious courts for family law. This is a major problem in countries like India, where it is common for people to go to the local mullah to resolve family disputes (inheritance, divorce, etc) rather than the secular courts. On practical reason for this is the long turn-around times for cases in the secular courts. Divorce, for example, in some cases can take years, while a mullah might be able to grant the divorce in a few months. Sharia courts in general (though not always) are bad for women and children.
I personally feel that focusing too much on surface issues like hijab actually works against the cause of reform. It is fine if women wear hijab as long as they are allowed to work, have equal rights as men, opportunities for education, and access to quick and decisive justice in case of domestic violence.
Of course, to expect that western feminists can bring about this change is absurd. First, the infection of post-modernism in western feminism makes criticizing Muslims extremely hard. And, as we have seen, many western feminists have veered into la-la land of victimhood and identity politics that follows from that. The best hope is for Muslim women and men themselves to take the lead, as is happening in many places already.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Aaaaand... we're back to square one. Everybody switch partners and we'll start the next dance. Same as the last one.Angry_Drunk wrote:And that sentence right there sums up this idiocy. If Ariana Huffington is "Liberal" I'm Fidel mother-fucking Castro. The bottom line is the U.S. has a Centrist/Beltway/Corporate Media...and Fox News.welch wrote: ...HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
And your point is?Wonderist wrote:Aaaaand... we're back to square one. Everybody switch partners and we'll start the next dance. Same as the last one.Angry_Drunk wrote:And that sentence right there sums up this idiocy. If Ariana Huffington is "Liberal" I'm Fidel mother-fucking Castro. The bottom line is the U.S. has a Centrist/Beltway/Corporate Media...and Fox News.welch wrote: ...HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".
If you're pointing out that my comment will do little to change our buddy Mark's opinion...well no shit. It's become obvious to anyone with half a neo-cortex that he's decided that he's right and that anyone who disagrees is either an idiot or brain-washed by the liebrul media.
If you're contesting my characterization of Ariana Huffington or the "mainstream" U.S. media...do go on.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
i think it should actually include the ability to sign in dissent, with a field explaining what you object to and whywelch wrote:No, I think there's a valid point in having it be women-only, kind of like the "We'll prove you wrong about so many scientists who don't accept evolution by getting more signatories than you. By the way, only people named "Steve", who are scientists in related fields can sign."Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:If it wasn't "women only", I would gladly sign it. I think you should encourage men who have interacted with women likely to sign it, to sign it. Sacha, Rayshul, Abbie, Scented Nectar... and many others it would take too long to refer to, these are all women most of us have had discussions with, have understood their point of view, and are agreeing with.curriejean wrote:You are welcome (and I extend the thanks to others). Not to worry about it getting to me, I habitually throw myself into rhetorical battles about ideas that matter to me and I've mostly hardened up. If it starts to get to me I have a back yard and a fire pit to retreat to. :)LMU wrote:Thank you for the petition and your efforts!
Remember that they are not reasonable people, and that it is their problem, not yours, so don't take their behavior personally (not that you were, but it is likely you'll see more and worse of that).
Don't be such a sexist! :lol:
By only having women sign it, it completely removes any ability to use (identified) gender as an objection. "This is all just MRAs, they should listen to WOMEN."
"All the signatories are women"
"...CHILL GIRLS!"
"Bless your heart."
I think it's a brilliant strategy.
i think the replies would be very...
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Neither, though the former is far closer to what I meant than the latter. Mark's opinion may change. Theists become atheists on a regular basis, through a process of deconversion (often taking a long time on the order of months, sometimes years, occasionally as short as weeks, rarely days). This is not much different. My point is simply to emphasize to any still surprised to hear it that, yes, indeed, the US has a bizarre right-wing slant when compared to other modern democracies (and to reality, in general), and that arguing *in that vein* of "it's left, no it's right, no it's left" is going to lead in circles. (Which is not the same thing as saying Mark's opinion is never going to change; instead it's saying to try a different approach, and when this 'left-right-left' dance comes up just cut to the chase instead of dancing along.) And it wasn't directed at you specifically. You just happened to be the one to post the most clear sign of the argument reaching full circle.Angry_Drunk wrote:And your point is?Wonderist wrote:Aaaaand... we're back to square one. Everybody switch partners and we'll start the next dance. Same as the last one.Angry_Drunk wrote:And that sentence right there sums up this idiocy. If Ariana Huffington is "Liberal" I'm Fidel mother-fucking Castro. The bottom line is the U.S. has a Centrist/Beltway/Corporate Media...and Fox News.welch wrote: ...HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".
If you're pointing out that my comment will do little to change our buddy Mark's opinion...well no shit. It's become obvious to anyone with half a neo-cortex that he's decided that he's right and that anyone who disagrees is either an idiot or brain-washed by the liebrul media.
If you're contesting my characterization of Ariana Huffington or the "mainstream" U.S. media...do go on.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
The funny bit is that the left-wing crazies of the 70s (Weathermen, Black Panthers, etc.)have given way to the right-wing crazies of the 00s.Tribble wrote:
I'm 52 years old and I have watched the Overton Window shift dramatically over the past twenty years. Obama is about the same as Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush I when it comes to politics. Clinton was closer to Reagan than any 'liberal democrat' you may imagine and Obama is about the same.
It's not difficult to come up with a hypothesis: Boomers and the corresponding population bulge going through the age pyramid.
Younger people lean to the left, older people lean to the right. In the 70s there was a lot of young people, and thus of left-wing extremism. Today there is a lot of old people, and therefore of conservative extremism. If you add in the fact that small shifts in a bell curve lead to massive (proportional) changes at the tails, you've got an explanation for the seeming wide swings in extremism across the spectrum.
(This analysis brought to you by MyRectum, Ltd. - fine purveyors of made-up data since the first human asked the first "why?)"
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Haha. Coming soon, "How Rebecca Watson invented the wheel".CommanderTuvok wrote:Have a gander at this shit-for-brains.
One of Ophelia's cunt worshippers claims Skepchick was responsible for TAM's success in recent years!!! Illusions of grandeur, indeed.
http://i.imgur.com/TizsRuz.jpg
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Tony Parsehole wrote:Haha. Coming soon, "How Rebecca Watson invented the wheel".CommanderTuvok wrote:Have a gander at this shit-for-brains.
One of Ophelia's cunt worshippers claims Skepchick was responsible for TAM's success in recent years!!! Illusions of grandeur, indeed.
http://i.imgur.com/TizsRuz.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Are you sure it's not a Poe?
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
If your name and avatar wasn't accompanying that comment I'd have thought MKG actually wrote it.ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
And so brave Sir Mykeru, as a modern day Sir Ivanhoe - riding gallantly (gall-ant-lie, perhaps?) into battle (or combat (or perchance con-bat, if thou wouldst allow?)) doth turn his charger towards Sir Michael Kingsford (derived, of course, from the ancient river crossing which did allow His Majesty's Lancastrian troops to traverse betwixt the ancient Duchies of Lancaster and Yorkshire or - as many a local yeoman had it within taverns of the time - the side of truth and the side of beef (beef being subject to a levy of 3 shillings per side at the time, a throwback to Old King Jack, who didst follow with perhaps too little caution the story of the butcher in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.
Be not lost,
Within St Swithin,
Care not a rhyme,
For thou hast Saint Sim(on)
And on and on and on)).
And proudly doth Sir King's Ford of the Gray raise up 'pon his podium (both podes planted firmly thereupon) and say:
(cont'd page 94)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Beat me to it. Maybe change the title to " The Nervous Breakdown Non-Dictionary Atheist"Ericb wrote:
He should change the title. He doesn't appear be very happy to me.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Fascist? And we're back to the beginning again.Remick wrote:Meh, either way, Your fascist comment makes no sense. But keep trolling along if you want.Git wrote:Whining? I was celebrating it.Remick wrote:I don't give a shit whether you are right, left, whatever. I was speaking to your whining about being ignored, nothing to do with your politics or lack there of.Git wrote:Ah yes, how dare I be something other than a card-carrying progressive or leftist eh?Remick wrote:
But don't ignore him, or you are Peezus. Ignoring him is tone trolling.... Holy shit, it Git a mod at A+?
Scratch a liberal, find a fascist underneath.
Is it your reading or comprehension that is lacking? Either way, I think it is plain to see why I mostly ignore you.
Here's the Kitler Youth:
http://www.assetstorage.co.uk/AssetStor ... -youth.jpg
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Before I forget and fuck off for another week or so: Welcome, H. Korban, your first few posts have been interesting and enlightening, well-written and thoughtful. Kudos! :clap: Would love to hear more from you in the future :popcorn: , and I'm sure I'm not alone in that opinion (esp. as many others have already said much the same). I do have a few quibbles with some of the reasoning you put forth about how best to handle changing peoples' minds on these issues, but they are mere quibbles and not worth delving into at this point. The more the merrier, I say! Cheers! :D
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Well, Ophelia's idiot spawn think that Rebecca is organizing conferences.Cunning Punt wrote:As I said before, the solution is obvious. They can set up their own conference, then we can all see for ourselves.CommanderTuvok wrote:Have a gander at this shit-for-brains.
One of Ophelia's cunt worshippers claims Skepchick was responsible for TAM's success in recent years!!! Illusions of grandeur, indeed.
But as others said in response, that would take work.
Yep, they sure are. As it says on the Skepchickcon site http://events.skepchick.org/2013/05/09/ ... ds-may-15/ :great1american1satan wrote: Rebecca and her peeps cenrtainly been better communicators and organizers in recent years than JREF
"Delusionalism, Denialism, Twistedlogicism, Inzvanity and FfTB Bloggers. Buy Surly-ramics AND Cobweb-ramics (new, courtesy of Ophelia Benson) and meet lots of women who all wear those stupid fucking thick-rimmed glasses at SkepchickCon, the science and skepticism track of CONvergence"
Seriously, the "science and skepticism track"?? Oh, really. Anyone actually believes that they are not just going to go on about "Da Feminism" and "Harassment Policies" the whole time...
Yep, as we all know:
1) WiS2 only got 300 attendees, Skepchick could probably manage half that number.
2) even with 100 attendees, they wouldn't be able to organise shit because they are bad communicators who are incapable of organizing.
Compare that to JREF who organise massive conferences with huge numbers of attendees and great speakers, so instead of that, they pay CONvergence to give them a room that they can rant in. The "projection" of Skepchick and FfTB beggars belief.
A bit more honest:
"Skepchickcon 2013: Radical Feminism and the Rise of The Nu-Patriarchy. Join us to discuss the FACT that 83% of ALL women WILL be raped THIS MONTH at least once (and that's not just physical rape, but Men Who Rape With Their Eyes, "which is actually worse than physical rape if you think about it" said Rebecca Watson, noted intellectual), and the Nu-Patriarchies attempts to oppress the wimminz. You are either With Us, or With The Patriarchy!!"
"science and skepticism track". Fucking idiots.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
While I too would love to see such replies, I think welch is right on the mark. This is a tactical and strategic move that serves as a *great* example. Coupled with Skep Tickle's comments on Gurdur's letter to Nugent, and several other recent events such as EB Wachs' deconversion, it is crucial to tie these points together to make the rhetorical point that the dogmatic feminist contingent are simply *not* representative of skeptical/secular women at large. The analogy with Project Steve is perfect, IMO.rpguest wrote:i think it should actually include the ability to sign in dissent, with a field explaining what you object to and whywelch wrote: No, I think there's a valid point in having it be women-only, kind of like the "We'll prove you wrong about so many scientists who don't accept evolution by getting more signatories than you. By the way, only people named "Steve", who are scientists in related fields can sign."
By only having women sign it, it completely removes any ability to use (identified) gender as an objection. "This is all just MRAs, they should listen to WOMEN."
"All the signatories are women"
"...CHILL GIRLS!"
"Bless your heart."
I think it's a brilliant strategy.
i think the replies would be very...enlighteningsymptomatic
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
while there is a lot of rubbish at Skepchickcon, I have to concede that at least these 2 heavyweight speakers would guarantee to make any conference a huge success: "Jason Thibeault of Freethought Blogs, plus several incredible special guests including biological anthropologist Greg Laden"
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I've just learned my uncle is in a coma now and probably won't pass the night.
oh no. I'm so sorry Phil
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Awesome story, on several levels. Agree 200% in the attitude thing. It really is awfully important. When I turned fifty, I was asked 'how does it feel to reach the middle of your life?'. My answer: "Fuck that. I plan on having my mid-life crisis when I'm 75." - and I meant it. I can still do everything I was doing at 18 because I never stopped doing it. Staying active mentally and physically and positive mentally is crucially important - as well as never, ever taking yourself too seriously. This is my biggest gripe with the victim mentality that so many sjw's promote. No one is responsible for your well being but yourself. Period. Once I got a handle on that part of my life, I never looked back.Mykeru wrote:Oh, I got that beatZenspace wrote::shock: Yeah, that's a good one to miss!Mykeru wrote:
Zenspace:
One thing I'm glad I didn't inherit from the Scots side is a congenital heart defect. My Aunt Fiona died in her sleep when she was 18. My Maternal grandfather died in his 50s when I was seven. I still remember the massive horseshoe scar on his chest from opening him up again and again.
As scary as it is, this is the best time and the best place in history to have a bypass. I bet they fix him right up.
I'm approaching sixty and know a lot of people who have gone through similar procedures so have a pretty good perspective on it. Of course, I'm not the one receiving the surgery! I spent most of last evening playing the whole thing down to him and the rest of the family - just a fancy, high-end plumbing job these days. My Dad even said he is lucky it was surgery and NOT plumbing, which would cost him a lot more! :lol: I expect he will be good as new soon afterwards.
My family has a propensity for no major heritable health issues - my brother is a major exception to the family history. My grandparents on my paternal only recently passed. We tend to live into our 90's and remain sharp, active and annoying right to the end. My grandfather was after my Dad to buy him a motorcycle so he could 'pick up the chicks' a year after Gram passed. He was 93. :dance:
My Great-Uncle Victor, my father's Uncle and my grandmother's brother is in his 90s now. For the longest time the family thought he was drafted into WWII. He enlisted and got into the "Ghost Army" the tactical deception unit and was an alumni of the Battle of the Bulge. His wife died of a heart defect when she was 30, there's a photo of them where he lives with his granddaughter showing Victor in his army duds with this pretty Andrews-sister looking Italian woman.
Victor never remarried and was quite the ladies man. As a kid when he was pushing 60 he still arrived places with a couple chicks on his arm. In fact, he's still on good terms with old girlfriends, so he must have done something right. He lived alone in Brooklyn before he moved in with his grandaughter and was out and about. In his 80s, I'm told he was out shoveling snow when an Orthodox Jewish guy came up to him to say something like "You shouldn't be doing that, pops" and noticed his army combat veteran lapel pin.
"You were in the Army?" The guy asked, and Victor affirmed. He asked what war was he in and Victor said "World War II". The Orthodox Jewish guy then asked "Where did you fight?" And Victor said "Germany". The guy took a beat and couldn't think of anything to say but "Thank you". Which meant the world to Victor.
He couldn't talk about all the things he did, The 23rd Headquarters Special Troops was pretty much secret for 50 years. And he only recently started talking about what he lived through, including being a short guy and having a bullet travel over him and blow the head off the guy he was talking to, and seeing people who wok up frozen to death in the Ardennes Forest. But it was the kind of stuff that obviously gives one perspective and whatever you threw at him, he's roll with it.
Tough little fucker.
So anyway, when Victor turned 87 he had to have a pacemaker installed. The doctor that did the surgery told him the pacemaker would last 25 years.
"Yeah?" Victor said, "Then what'll we do?"
It's all attitude.
People who know of my early life (broken home, foster homes, two of them abusive, one alcoholic parent) are amazed that I can conduct my life in such a positive, grudge-free way. I didn't always - I played the poor victim role for a bit in my teens, but somehow realized all I was doing was ensuring I would stay miserable and fixed it. I made sure I passed that positive, active can-do attitude to my wife and my kids. Probably the best gift I ever gave them, along with an insatiable need to read and learn.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
welch wrote: Which is why I linked to it originally. As well, the context doesn't change the points.
So basically, you agree with me that his statement about computers is completely unsupportable, and the use of a computer creates absolutely no objectivity whatsoever.
What part of "Garbage In, Garbage Out" do they fail to teach in college/tech school these days? I mean, I know my old COBOL skillz are laughable. As are the punch-cards the generation before me used. (At least they had hard-drives and 8" floppies when I started.)
But rule #1 was" GIGO -- Garbage In, Garbage Out."
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Well, fuck, my edit button doesn't work. And twitchy hand made 'preview' into 'submit.'
Anyway... Basically, if your program is designed to produce the biased result you want, you're going to get the biased result you want. And I think the author's confirmation bias showed. After all:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard P. Feynman
Anyway... Basically, if your program is designed to produce the biased result you want, you're going to get the biased result you want. And I think the author's confirmation bias showed. After all:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard P. Feynman
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
What a sexist enema nozzle (because douching is too good for him). He should check his privilege and shut and listen when a woman speaks and stop with his mansplaining and misogyny.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
bovarchist wrote:Please do not judge all Vancouverites on the basis of Crommunist.
I don't. I've been to Vancouver on vacation. It's a remarkable city with a lot of great people.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
I'm thinking this:KiwiInOz wrote:Slymepit and FTB - Never, ever, getting back together.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
You didn't expect the edit button to actually work, did you? Talk about first world problems. What are you, some kind of elitist agent of the patriarchy?Tribble wrote:Well, fuck, my edit button doesn't work. And twitchy hand made 'preview' into 'submit.'
Anyway... Basically, if your program is designed to produce the biased result you want, you're going to get the biased result you want. And I think the author's confirmation bias showed. After all:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard P. Feynman
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Yea, he is a little clueless – if not actually a little bigoted. This may have helped to set him if not right then at least on that path:Tribble wrote:What a sexist enema nozzle (because douching is too good for him). He should check his privilege and shut and listen when a woman speaks and stop with his mansplaining and misogyny.curriejean wrote:What a hoot.
http://i.imgur.com/vyyVkPq.png
Steers Mann â€@SteersMann 14h @Crommunist @_interrobanging Not the point. Saying “everything fine brigade†wth its pejorative connotations is. Like calling U an UncleTom.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
I went to Vagcouver too. The zoo was lovely.Tribble wrote:bovarchist wrote:Please do not judge all Vancouverites on the basis of Crommunist.
I don't. I've been to Vancouver on vacation. It's a remarkable city with a lot of great people.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Wonderist wrote:Aaaaand... we're back to square one. Everybody switch partners and we'll start the next dance. Same as the last one.Angry_Drunk wrote:And that sentence right there sums up this idiocy. If Ariana Huffington is "Liberal" I'm Fidel mother-fucking Castro. The bottom line is the U.S. has a Centrist/Beltway/Corporate Media...and Fox News.welch wrote: ...HuffPo, who may be the embodiment of "liberal media".
http://www.mediadump.com/post/self-port ... ages/1.jpg
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Hahaha N00b fail.Tribble wrote:I'm thinking this:KiwiInOz wrote:Slymepit and FTB - Never, ever, getting back together.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Woah. So off key. 0:49. Ow.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Just because I can't watch it - bloody GEMA restrictions -:Mykeru wrote:Hahaha N00b fail.Tribble wrote:I'm thinking this:KiwiInOz wrote:Slymepit and FTB - Never, ever, getting back together.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Another good reason for making this women only is because the SJW brigade most of the times tries to paint themselves as the representatives of women, and it's in many way the device they use to give themselves legitimacy.welch wrote:No, I think there's a valid point in having it be women-only, kind of like the "We'll prove you wrong about so many scientists who don't accept evolution by getting more signatories than you. By the way, only people named "Steve", who are scientists in related fields can sign."
By only having women sign it, it completely removes any ability to use (identified) gender as an objection. "This is all just MRAs, they should listen to WOMEN."
"All the signatories are women"
"...CHILL GIRLS!"
"Bless your heart."
I think it's a brilliant strategy.
Everyone need to do what they order, because if we ignore them, we are to unwelcoming women. If we criticize them, we are attacking women. If we become annoyed, angry or tired of them, we are hostile to women (and gasp, even "misogynists").
Making this statement women only, you pull that rug from under their feet. "Everyone" knows that there's a bunch of people who dislike FTB etc, and "everyone" kinda get that there are women among those people, but the FTBers love to pretend that this isn't the case - they desperate cling to the notion that the pit and everyone else who dislike them are just angry, misogynistic men. They have to, or they no longer would be able to view themselves as the righteous champions of women in the A/S community, and their whole house of cards would come tumbling down.
That's why their first reaction to the statement in various ways will be all about denying the women signing this: these signatures are all fakes, no "rational woman" would sign this, the women who've signed this are faulty, these women are chill girls", these women are nazis/indoctrinated/evil, and so on. In one way or another, these women aren't really women, they cannot be allowed to be, or the whole narrative falls apart.
It's really quite beautiful, because this makes the SJW brigade do the very thing that they claim others are doing - marginalize women, attack women due to their gender, and in general be very unwelcoming to women. You couldn't ask for a better display of the SJW hypocrisy.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Mark Thomas wrote:I quite agree with Shermer. But his thoughts apply as equally to welch, remick, and wonderist.Steersman wrote: <snip>
Good points; quite agree.
Apropos of which is this bit from Shermer’s The Believing Brain – highly recommended:
As you say, cognitive dissonance. And simple filtering through various lenses or coloured by various biases. Rather difficult to disentangle at times.As we saw in the previous chapter, politics is filled with self-justifying rationalizations. Democrats see the world through liberal-tinted glasses, while Republicans filter it through conservative shaded glasses. When you listen to both “conservative talk radio†and “progressive talk radio†you will hear current events interpreted in ways that are 180 degrees out of phase. So incongruent are the interpretations of even the simplest goings-on in the daily news that you wonder if they can possibly be talking about the same event. Social psychologist Geoffrey Cohen quantified this effect in a study in which he discovered that Democrats are more accepting of a welfare program if they believe it was proposed by a fellow Democrat, even if the proposal came from a Republican and is quite restrictive. Predictably, Cohen found the same effect for Republicans who were far more likely to approve of a generous welfare program if they thought it was proposed by a fellow Republican. In other words, even when examining the exact same data people from both parties arrive at radically different conclusions. [pg #263] (my emphasis)
<snip>
Probably. To a greater or lesser extent depending on the topic under discussion. But that we all have biases isn’t sufficient to make the case that all arguments and biases are created equal or carry equal weight. Apropos of which, I think this quote of Carl Sagan addresses that point:
Not at all easy to identify those biases but I think we’re obliged to make serious efforts to do so. And to make decisions based on that knowledge.The well meaning contention that all ideas have equal merit seems to me to be little different from the disastrous contention that no ideas have any merit. (Broca’s Brain, pg xii)
No doubt. But as we all have opinions the question is who has more facts to put on the table. And while I haven’t followed all of the convolutions of the argument that you and, in particular, welch have been having, it seems to me that welch’s observations about Groseclose’s ignorance about programming and its limitations weigh rather decisively against your position.I also have a different opinion about who was poking holes in who's theories.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Not only that, but any male SJWs who attack the petition can be, 'FLOOSH', dismissed out of hand because they are 'mansplaining' and failing to check their privilege! :lol:acathode wrote:Another good reason for making this women only is because the SJW brigade most of the times tries to paint themselves as the representatives of women, and it's in many way the device they use to give themselves legitimacy.welch wrote:No, I think there's a valid point in having it be women-only, kind of like the "We'll prove you wrong about so many scientists who don't accept evolution by getting more signatories than you. By the way, only people named "Steve", who are scientists in related fields can sign."
By only having women sign it, it completely removes any ability to use (identified) gender as an objection. "This is all just MRAs, they should listen to WOMEN."
"All the signatories are women"
"...CHILL GIRLS!"
"Bless your heart."
I think it's a brilliant strategy.
Everyone need to do what they order, because if we ignore them, we are to unwelcoming women. If we criticize them, we are attacking women. If we become annoyed, angry or tired of them, we are hostile to women (and gasp, even "misogynists").
Making this statement women only, you pull that rug from under their feet. "Everyone" knows that there's a bunch of people who dislike FTB etc, and "everyone" kinda get that there are women among those people, but the FTBers love to pretend that this isn't the case - they desperate cling to the notion that the pit and everyone else who dislike them are just angry, misogynistic men. They have to, or they no longer would be able to view themselves as the righteous champions of women in the A/S community, and their whole house of cards would come tumbling down.
That's why their first reaction to the statement in various ways will be all about denying the women signing this: these signatures are all fakes, no "rational woman" would sign this, the women who've signed this are faulty, these women are chill girls", these women are nazis/indoctrinated/evil, and so on. In one way or another, these women aren't really women, they cannot be allowed to be, or the whole narrative falls apart.
It's really quite beautiful, because this makes the SJW brigade do the very thing that they claim others are doing - marginalize women, attack women due to their gender, and in general be very unwelcoming to women. You couldn't ask for a better display of the SJW hypocrisy.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Eskarina, there's an extension for Chrome called Proxmate that will bypass GEMA restrictions without consequences.
Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It
Ah, someone else who has heard of the genius of Max Raabe!Eskarina wrote:
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