Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[LMU]

Reading Nugent's post & comments there, someone might care to remind Anthony K that he outed himself at Pharyngula in 2008, long before Reap ever did, and there are people at the SP concerned about his privacy.

[Jan Steen]

What have the pro-Feminist atheistic Social Justice Warriors achieved apart from demonstrate they're utterly dysfunctional?

Well, they managed to stage a significant protest utilising hand-written signs that contained only very few spelling errors.

http://i.imgur.com/7OHGffz.jpg

[welch]

Oh look, it's gone from WILL BANKRUPT YOU FOR YOUR LIFE to an inconvenience. Which is pretty much what I said. I mean really, do they not have "banks" or "savings accounts" in Britain? Do you stand in line to get your pay pack and keep it in your sock, or a mattress? No computers over there? Still back in 1947 are we?

Did it go from WILL BANKRUPT YOU FOR YOUR LIFE? Hey no, I actually said it's likely fuck most people up for a few years, at best. But nice try.

$2000 is not going to fuck up 80% of the population for a few years, even at over 20% interest. But nice try.

Given we are talking about a procedure that costs about as much, if not less than a family vacation, and, living in the land of the mouse, I can assure you that millions of people, not among the super-rich somehow manage to afford the UNHOLY AMOUNT OF A FAMILY VACATION once a year.

It's not like you're getting an abortion every fucking pay period you nit-wit. My takehome is not $2K, yet, if I have to pay cash for a medical procedure that costs 2K, I could in fact manage that without eating bread crusts and misery for a year. You were just mistaken about the costs of this, now you're just being stupid because you can't admit you were wrong about it bankrupting all but the SOOPER RICH 4-EVAH.

Wow, so you're not getting an abortion every month, and this means that somehow missing out on almost a months worth of pay is always going to be inconsequential shit. Yeah, I suppose it helps that you're a middle class sys-op with a freelance wife.

No, no, you said that all wrong. It's "check your privilege". Do try to get your nonsensical nonsequiters correct. Not that it matters, but for the record, I actually make $60K a year. So I'm not in the poor house, but i'm hardly living high either. However, even on that, which mind you, is not that much over median, I manage to pay my bills and keep a couple of grand of "emergency" space available. I've managed that on a larger salary in a cheap area, I managed that on a smaller salary in an expensive area. The times I couldn't manage it was when I had a minimum wage, or worse job. But that still doesn't describe 80% of the fucking population.

not that this has anything to do with your error about the costs of an abortion, *but*, religion is pretty much at the heart of it. I don't however think they give a fuck about conversion. They just want everyone living under their rules. Because that's how fundies are. Actually, I've had more than a few Pro-life types tell me they didn't give a fuck about enforcement, because as it turns out, enforcement is really expensive. They just "want the law on the books". WTF?

Well yeah, almost as if they're not doing it along class lines, but are actually trying to punish women.

You'll find that by and large, the less money you have, the more this kind of institutionalized idiocy hurts you. A woman who can manage 2K, (and please, just to add yet more real numbers, at an interest rate of 23.24%, not a small one, a $2K charge would have a minimum payment of around $60 US. If you are at the very low end of the economic spectrum, that truly blows. If you are not, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, nothing more, and it's still not enough to "fuck you up" by any means. If you're making even a vaguely decent salary, and $60 or so dollars a month is "fucking you up", you have other problems) once a year is not going to be as affected by this shit.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Reading Nugent's post & comments there, someone might care to remind Anthony K that he outed himself at Pharyngula in 2008, long before Reap ever did, and there are people at the SP concerned about his privacy.

Would be perfect if he also reads my comment right bellow yours :lol:

[LMU]

Reading Nugent's post & comments there, someone might care to remind Anthony K that he outed himself at Pharyngula in 2008, long before Reap ever did, and there are people at the SP concerned about his privacy.

Okay reading more of the comments there it looks like people have already pointed that out. I should read more before speaking :oops:

[welch]

Um, I know this is a surprise, but going to Canada is not out of the realm of possibility for 80%-90% of women. Especially women with those weird "job" things who maybe have "savings". In addition, a first trimester in-clinic abortion at say a Planned Parenthood center coasts between $300 and $950. (http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health ... s-4359.asp)

Later period abortions cost more, but don't scale vertically by any means. Those are US costs, but Canadian costs seem to track that closely. (http://abortionincanada.ca/funding/)

Average cost of a plane ticket to say Toronto? From Tallahassee, it's under $600. (delta.com)

So, depending on the situation, it is not unrealistic to be able to travel to Canada, even if you don't drive, get a safe, legal abortion, and come home for right around $2K US. That's not change in the couch cushions money, but it's not going to drive you into debt for the rest of your life either. Abortion, moral issues aside, is a fairly simple procedure. It's not cancer treatment.

You're right, it's not impossible, but it's not as easy as you make it sound either.
First off, here's the source for the figures I'll be using: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_ ... ted_States
For a single wage earner in the U.S. the average (gross) wage is $30,000-40,000. To reach the median U.S. income of about $50,500 (gross) requires 1.3 incomes. That means that for the average American $2000 is 3-5 weeks worth of net (after taxes) pay. So, if you don't spend any money on anything for a month you could indeed come up with two grand. Of course that would put you a month behind on your rent/mortgage, insurance, car payment and any credit cards you might have, most of which will kick the interest up to a 30% penalty rate. Never mind things like food and transportation to and from work.
No, pulling a month's pay out your ass on short notice won't fuck you up for the rest of your life but you will be a long time digging out from under.

and again, how many abortions do you plan on getting in a year? 12? 6?

perhaps all the people who manage disney world vacations every year can explain to you how this works. It's not that difficult.

Right, because just like a Disney vacation you can plan to get an abortion a year or so in advance and start saving up for it.

"Gee, I might have something stupid happen that my shitty insurance doesn't cover. I might have an unexpected car problem. My grammy might die, and I'd need to beat feet to where she lives which is not near me. IF ONLY THERE WERE A WAY FOR I, A PERSON NOT MAKING MINIMUM WAGE AND NOT PART OF THE WORKING POOR TO HAVE SOME METHOD TO SET ASIDE SOME WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS KIND OF SHIT. IF ONLY SUCH THINGS WERE NOT ONLY AVAILABLE TO THE SUPER-RICH! DAMN YOU WARREN BUFFET!!!!"

it's not about planning specifically for an abortion, because, as you point out, no one really does that. But there are a host of things, from minor to major that you will have to pay for, unexpectedly. Sadly, because our medical insurance system tends to suck, (a different issue entirely) abortion is one of those. I do not expect that people have an abortion fund, that's fucking stupid. I do expect that people spend some time pondering "what do I do if something fucked up happens". That's part of being an adult.

Ideally, Abortion would be a part of a comprehensive single-payer or even socialized medicine plan. But, I live in the dingleberry states of "I got mine, fuck you" so it isn't. Nor are a lot of things that should be. If I have a minor accident, and only need a cast and an X-ray, even my insurance won't pay for the first couple of grand of that. So, while I do things like vote for people who want to fix it, I understand that I need to deal with that moronic reality.

trying to fix things doesn't exempt you from the real world.

[justinvacula]

Amidst comments in a recent post, Zvan expresses some skepticism concerning Ron Lindsay welcoming Karla and I; she notes my version of the story is all that is available. INTERESTING. Days ago, and in the signed letter to the CFI board, Ron's greeting me is -- fof whatever reason -- mentioned. Facts are a matter of convienance it seems. ...and it is ok to be skeptical of my story, but we are supposed to believe women -- just because they say so -- who make allegations of harassment. Funny stuff.

- sent from mobile

[cunt]

You'll find that by and large, the less money you have, the more this kind of institutionalized idiocy hurts you. A woman who can manage 2K, (and please, just to add yet more real numbers, at an interest rate of 23.24%, not a small one, a $2K charge would have a minimum payment of around $60 US. If you are at the very low end of the economic spectrum, that truly blows. If you are not, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, nothing more, and it's still not enough to "fuck you up" by any means. If you're making even a vaguely decent salary, and $60 or so dollars a month is "fucking you up", you have other problems) once a year is not going to be as affected by this shit.

So apparently you think that a $60k salary plus whatever your wife brings in for her freelance work is about average for america. Maybe it'd cost you a visit to disney-land. For most people, they'd be totally fucked.

[treestump]

Any hint as to whether Ed Brayton knows about PZ's new policy, and recent information disclosures at a couple of other FtB blogs? Since he's, what, half-owner, and PZ's plans in particular seem to fly in the face of the site's stated privacy policy?

Privacy Policy

The privacy of our visitors to freethoughtblogs.com is important to us.

At freethoughtblogs.com, we recognize that privacy of your personal information is important. Here is information on what types of personal information we receive and collect when you use and visit freethoughtblogs.com, and how we safeguard your information. ...

...Freethoughtblogs.com will never sell or transfer any personal information, including your email address, that you may have to leave on our side in order to comment.

Has anyone asked Ed on this on his blog or by email ? I'd really love to hear Ed's view on this ?

[Remick]

You'll find that by and large, the less money you have, the more this kind of institutionalized idiocy hurts you. A woman who can manage 2K, (and please, just to add yet more real numbers, at an interest rate of 23.24%, not a small one, a $2K charge would have a minimum payment of around $60 US. If you are at the very low end of the economic spectrum, that truly blows. If you are not, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, nothing more, and it's still not enough to "fuck you up" by any means. If you're making even a vaguely decent salary, and $60 or so dollars a month is "fucking you up", you have other problems) once a year is not going to be as affected by this shit.

So apparently you think that a $60k salary plus whatever your wife brings in for her freelance work is about average for america. Maybe it'd cost you a visit to disney-land. For most people, they'd be totally fucked.

He admitted that it is above the median. RTFP

[treestump]

Has anyone ever chatted with PZ at a conference face to face (not Justin obviously, as PZ likes to pretend that Justin is a harasser bla bla) ? I might be wrong, and it's just a feeling I get, but he seems quite sleazy. I always wonder what his wife and kids think about him blatantly hitting on women while doing card tricks on stage, constant sexualed remarks in every video I've seen him in, and that rape joke last week about how everybody needs a shower after they've raped someone on that google hangout session (and amazingly, that rape-enabler Jadehawk smiled and laughed at his RAPE joke! I fucking hate rape-enablers).

[Trophy]

To make clear – I think the A+ forum is massively overly censorious and to keep from being banned one has to perform some Byzantine efforts at diplomacy. I for one wouldn’t go back there even if they’d have me (whilst they never explained my ban to me I think in my case it was for “necroing a thread” that was two weeks old, or for sticking up for Ed Clint, or something).

Dave Allen's quote reminds me how happy I am that A+ forum exists. If I believed in God I would have screamed "Thank you lord!" but I don't so I guess I'll sacrifice a goat to Odin or something.

[treestump]

Fucking witch hunts ... doesn't that constitute "shithead behaviour"? Would be amusing if PZ grew a conscience and banned himself (and while you're at it, ban yourself from making RAPE jokes PZ, ffs).
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... to-cfi-now

[Dave]

You'll find that by and large, the less money you have, the more this kind of institutionalized idiocy hurts you. A woman who can manage 2K, (and please, just to add yet more real numbers, at an interest rate of 23.24%, not a small one, a $2K charge would have a minimum payment of around $60 US. If you are at the very low end of the economic spectrum, that truly blows. If you are not, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, nothing more, and it's still not enough to "fuck you up" by any means. If you're making even a vaguely decent salary, and $60 or so dollars a month is "fucking you up", you have other problems) once a year is not going to be as affected by this shit.

So apparently you think that a $60k salary plus whatever your wife brings in for her freelance work is about average for america. Maybe it'd cost you a visit to disney-land.

Median household income in the US is about 50K so welch is pretty close there, Id guess hes around 60th percentile.

For most people, they'd be totally fucked.

Only for fairly non-standard definitions of "most", "totally" and "fucked".

Look, no one is saying that there isnt a segment of the population that would be totally fucked, just that segment isnt "most." Alternatively, an unexpected $2K expense would be a pain-in-the-ass to most, but they wouldnt be totally fucked.

[welch]

You'll find that by and large, the less money you have, the more this kind of institutionalized idiocy hurts you. A woman who can manage 2K, (and please, just to add yet more real numbers, at an interest rate of 23.24%, not a small one, a $2K charge would have a minimum payment of around $60 US. If you are at the very low end of the economic spectrum, that truly blows. If you are not, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, nothing more, and it's still not enough to "fuck you up" by any means. If you're making even a vaguely decent salary, and $60 or so dollars a month is "fucking you up", you have other problems) once a year is not going to be as affected by this shit.

So apparently you think that a $60k salary plus whatever your wife brings in for her freelance work is about average for america. Maybe it'd cost you a visit to disney-land. For most people, they'd be totally fucked.

LOL. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. However, I, and others have provided actual numbers and facts. You can choose to ignore them, but unless you come up with better data and facts, not just your normal hyperbole, your'e still wrong.

[welch]

You'll find that by and large, the less money you have, the more this kind of institutionalized idiocy hurts you. A woman who can manage 2K, (and please, just to add yet more real numbers, at an interest rate of 23.24%, not a small one, a $2K charge would have a minimum payment of around $60 US. If you are at the very low end of the economic spectrum, that truly blows. If you are not, it is a bit of a pain in the ass, nothing more, and it's still not enough to "fuck you up" by any means. If you're making even a vaguely decent salary, and $60 or so dollars a month is "fucking you up", you have other problems) once a year is not going to be as affected by this shit.

So apparently you think that a $60k salary plus whatever your wife brings in for her freelance work is about average for america. Maybe it'd cost you a visit to disney-land.

Median household income in the US is about 50K so welch is pretty close there, Id guess hes around 60th percentile.

For most people, they'd be totally fucked.

Only for fairly non-standard definitions of "most", "totally" and "fucked".

Look, no one is saying that there isnt a segment of the population that would be totally fucked, just that segment isnt "most." Alternatively, an unexpected $2K expense would be a pain-in-the-ass to most, but they wouldnt be totally fucked.

Yep. But Cunt backed himself into that corner, and he's just going to snarl and snap until we all turn around so he can extricate himself without having to admit that his original hyperbole wasn't actually correct. There have been enough actual numbers provided here, including my salary, (we'll set aside his fantasies about my wife's income. Suffice it to say, if we had to survive on only that, we'd be eating raw cat in a cardboard box) to show that no, 80% of the US population would not be "totally fucked for years" by a $2K emergency. People deal with this shit all the goddamned time, even here.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

John C Welch, re the skeptic women petition, I agree with your view. I didn't think it through enough. Lots of things on my mind.

[Cunning Punt]

Penfold knows he's full of shit, he's just trying to poison the well in Dublin.

Well if he's full of shit that shouldn't be too hard. :hankey:

[AndrewV69]

But it seems to me that feminists fighting against Islam are a rather different kettle of fish, and that responses or actions in that case have to be necessarily more strident or in-your-face to draw sufficient attention.

If you are talking about FEMEN as far as I am concerned they are drama queens and their protests are usually done in spaces where they are perfectly safe. Bunch of patronizing whining privileged princesses.

Seems that, according to the Wikipedia article on them, that might be the more accurate picture. My mistake. Although as evolutionists frequently argue, “5% of a modern eye is more useful than 3%”; likewise with the FEMEN protests which might have some use in supporting or initiating feminist political actions in those countries even if I question some of their political perspectives.

Feminism in Islam should be done by the women in Islam. The Westerners can all just go fuck off as far as I am concerned.

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend” …. Seems to me that even the most dogmatic form of feminism is, as far as Islam concerned, very much “the lesser of the two weevils” ….

But “all Westerners”? Including women like Irshad Manji [“The Trouble With Islam Today”]? While her focus might be more on the religion, it seems part of that is improving the lot of women under Islam. And I noticed that her book had been available on her website in a number of languages common throughout the Islamic world, and that they have been downloaded a rather large number of times. So I expect it has had a significant influence.

And I expect that there are many other Western feminists who have had similarly beneficial effects there.

[time to call it a day, though; night all]

I think that I would argue that in the case of Irshad Manji while she might be considered Western in your eyes, and indeed I think I could come up with a credible argument(s) that would agree with you*, ultimately I would not consider her as belonging to that category simply because she was raised within an Islamic tradition.

I also doubt the amount of influence she has among Muslims because she is a lesbian and Muslim women if my experience is anything to go by, are not necessarily impressed with that. I am probably understating the negative impact this has on whatever else she has to say but it is clearly a negative. Finally, last but not least she is an Ismaili, which is a minority within a minority in Islam, further undercutting her influence with Muslim women in general, especially as I think it is fair to say that a substantial potion of Sunni Islam do not consider any other branch to be proper Muslims in the first place.

Sunni - Largest - 80-90%
Shia - Minority - 5-20%

With all that said I really do not have a good sense of exactly how much influence Manji has on Islam on a whole except to doubt that it is too significant. It should not be too hard to find Muslim women arguing that they do not need feminism as Islam already provides much of what the feminists say they should have, and it is really just some cultural traditions and influences that need to be changed and nothing else.

In any event, despite my earlier arguments, I do think Irshad Manji is a legitimate voice within whatever conversation Muslim women decide to have among themselves.

I can not think of an Western feminists off hand that have any beneficial effect on Islam as a whole either. Mind you if you wanted to focus on American Islam that would be a different kettle of fish. You may be unaware of this, but Islam in America is already showing signs (to me anyway) of eventually forming yet another split within the Muslim world.

The last time I checked, the majority of "reverts" to Islam in the USA and the UK were women, and if you agree with me that women are generally the custodians of many cultural traditions and attitudes, it would not be too hard to see some bleed over of feminism via that route into Islam.

I am tempted to contemplate the irony of a religion that is viewed in some circles as hostile to women, and yet 75% of the new converts to Islam in the USA and the UK are women. But we can do that another time.



* She might have been exposed to cultural influences at home and within her community, but she also attended western schools during her formative years, and as I recall during your teens, your peer group has a much stronger influence upon you than your parents. If your values have not completely "set" by then then there is little your parents can do to influence you at that point. Much more so if you are a boy than a girl at any rate.

[WaxNapoleon]

Has anyone ever chatted with PZ at a conference face to face (not Justin obviously, as PZ likes to pretend that Justin is a harasser bla bla) ? I might be wrong, and it's just a feeling I get, but he seems quite sleazy. I always wonder what his wife and kids think about him blatantly hitting on women while doing card tricks on stage, constant sexualed remarks in every video I've seen him in, and that rape joke last week about how everybody needs a shower after they've raped someone on that google hangout session (and amazingly, that rape-enabler Jadehawk smiled and laughed at his RAPE joke! I fucking hate rape-enablers).

PZ's pathetic attempts at humor are easily his most offensive feature. They give me chills.

[Jan Steen]

The board meeting at which Ron Lindsay’s behavior at Women in Secularism 2 will be one topic to be discussed is next week. If you are concerned about the direction CFI is taking, if you value it as an organization and want to see it improve, if you think Ron Lindsay has served the interests of CFI poorly, put it in writing and let them know now.

Now! Be constructive. Tell them what’s wrong and what needs to be fixed. This is the time to make a course correction, before the catastrophic crash.

This reminds me of a priest who urges his flock to vote for the Catholic candidate. He will not say: "Vote for candidate X". He will say: "If you are concerned about abortion, if you value the Catholic Church as a pillar of society, if you think the other candidate has lax moral standards, then let your conscience vote for you." No independent thought allowed.

The catastrophic crash of Pharyngula is long overdue. It's a site devoted to the pet hates of a frustrated and increasingly demented demagogue.

[TheMudbrooker]

"Gee, I might have something stupid happen that my shitty insurance doesn't cover. I might have an unexpected car problem. My grammy might die, and I'd need to beat feet to where she lives which is not near me. IF ONLY THERE WERE A WAY FOR I, A PERSON NOT MAKING MINIMUM WAGE AND NOT PART OF THE WORKING POOR TO HAVE SOME METHOD TO SET ASIDE SOME WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS KIND OF SHIT. IF ONLY SUCH THINGS WERE NOT ONLY AVAILABLE TO THE SUPER-RICH! DAMN YOU WARREN BUFFET!!!!"

it's not about planning specifically for an abortion, because, as you point out, no one really does that. But there are a host of things, from minor to major that you will have to pay for, unexpectedly. Sadly, because our medical insurance system tends to suck, (a different issue entirely) abortion is one of those. I do not expect that people have an abortion fund, that's fucking stupid. I do expect that people spend some time pondering "what do I do if something fucked up happens". That's part of being an adult.

Ideally, Abortion would be a part of a comprehensive single-payer or even socialized medicine plan. But, I live in the dingleberry states of "I got mine, fuck you" so it isn't. Nor are a lot of things that should be. If I have a minor accident, and only need a cast and an X-ray, even my insurance won't pay for the first couple of grand of that. So, while I do things like vote for people who want to fix it, I understand that I need to deal with that moronic reality.

trying to fix things doesn't exempt you from the real world.

We aren't terribly far out of agreement, but you still make things sound easier than what they really are for most people. For most of my working life, between me and my wife we grossed $25,000-28,000 a year. At that level of income one can get by, but savings will be minimal. Nowadays we're doing a bit better and make about $35,000 a year. The difference that $7,000-10,000 makes is HUGE. I'm still digging out from 10 years of lean times in the construction industry but by the end of the year we'll be back on much sounder footing. My point is most people don't have $2000 availible credit on a credit card or in savings, even if they do and use it for some emergency, then what? A few months later when the next disaster (and there's always a next one coming) comes along what do you do when there hasn't been time to pay off the card or rebuild the savings?

The fact of the matter is income isn't a nice bell curve, 35% of individuals make less than $25,000 a year and 70% make less than $50,000. Comparing an income of $60,000 to an income of $30,000 is like comparing apples to orangutangs.
That's how it is out here in the real world.

[Dave2]

PZ's pathetic attempts at humor are easily his most offensive feature. They give me chills.

I do sometimes wonder how much is projection on his part - I mean if you do genuinely need guidance on how to talk to people sans creepiness that might explain why you advocate for there being extra guidance on how to talk to people.

[LMU]

PZ's pathetic attempts at humor are easily his most offensive feature. They give me chills.

I do sometimes wonder how much is projection on his part - I mean if you do genuinely need guidance on how to talk to people sans creepiness that might explain why you advocate for there being extra guidance on how to talk to people.

Interesting thought. I wonder if all the deep rifts might have been avoided if someone had just given this to PZ.

[Cunning Punt]

The anti-abortion camp is easy to dismiss by me. The pro-abortion camp described by your boss pisses me off. Specially when the discussion about sonograms and IU ultrasounds come up. Stupid arguments I hear usually have to do with emotional distress the woman may experience when loking at the fetus. I dunno, that reads like an argument that a pro-lifer will use.

I'm not so sure. Where pre-op procedures are necessary for the success of the operation I think it's clearly silly to complain. But when an individual is being subjected to procedures just so they give the operation more thought it seems patronising.

So beyond possible emotional distress it's also a drain on time, maybe money, its having another set of doctors poking around and so on.

When they say "emotional distress", they are being hyperbolic, although I wouldn't find it hard to believe there are some women for whom it is distressing. The point is, as Dave2 says, there's no reason for it except to pressure the patient to not have the procedure. To put it more bluntly, it's a shaming exercise and the state govts doing it are doing it because they'd like to outlaw it outright, but can't.

[welch]

John C Welch, re the skeptic women petition, I agree with your view. I didn't think it through enough. Lots of things on my mind.

Obviously. No worries

[Gefan]

PZ's pathetic attempts at humor are easily his most offensive feature. They give me chills.

I do sometimes wonder how much is projection on his part - I mean if you do genuinely need guidance on how to talk to people sans creepiness that might explain why you advocate for there being extra guidance on how to talk to people.

I don't know what it is about Peezus that keeps bringing me back to mad Teutons, but he's increasingly reminding me of Klaus Kinski at the conclusion of Aguirre: The Wrath of God.
Just substitute the monkeys swarming over the raft with baboons and Kinski's haunted skull of a face transforms. Suddenly it becomes pudgy, beady-eyed, and grows a beard.
Maybe it's just me.

For those unfamiliar...

[youtube]qdxV2btupHo[/youtube]

[welch]

Has anyone ever chatted with PZ at a conference face to face (not Justin obviously, as PZ likes to pretend that Justin is a harasser bla bla) ? I might be wrong, and it's just a feeling I get, but he seems quite sleazy. I always wonder what his wife and kids think about him blatantly hitting on women while doing card tricks on stage, constant sexualed remarks in every video I've seen him in, and that rape joke last week about how everybody needs a shower after they've raped someone on that google hangout session (and amazingly, that rape-enabler Jadehawk smiled and laughed at his RAPE joke! I fucking hate rape-enablers).

PZ's pathetic attempts at humor are easily his most offensive feature. They give me chills.

PeeZus is like a lot of Ph.Ds in thinking that expertise in one area gives him expertise in all. Humor/Comedy, like any other form of art is a combination of talent and hard work. Of the two, hard work is the most important part.

Clearly, he benefits from neither.

[welch]

"Gee, I might have something stupid happen that my shitty insurance doesn't cover. I might have an unexpected car problem. My grammy might die, and I'd need to beat feet to where she lives which is not near me. IF ONLY THERE WERE A WAY FOR I, A PERSON NOT MAKING MINIMUM WAGE AND NOT PART OF THE WORKING POOR TO HAVE SOME METHOD TO SET ASIDE SOME WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS KIND OF SHIT. IF ONLY SUCH THINGS WERE NOT ONLY AVAILABLE TO THE SUPER-RICH! DAMN YOU WARREN BUFFET!!!!"

it's not about planning specifically for an abortion, because, as you point out, no one really does that. But there are a host of things, from minor to major that you will have to pay for, unexpectedly. Sadly, because our medical insurance system tends to suck, (a different issue entirely) abortion is one of those. I do not expect that people have an abortion fund, that's fucking stupid. I do expect that people spend some time pondering "what do I do if something fucked up happens". That's part of being an adult.

Ideally, Abortion would be a part of a comprehensive single-payer or even socialized medicine plan. But, I live in the dingleberry states of "I got mine, fuck you" so it isn't. Nor are a lot of things that should be. If I have a minor accident, and only need a cast and an X-ray, even my insurance won't pay for the first couple of grand of that. So, while I do things like vote for people who want to fix it, I understand that I need to deal with that moronic reality.

trying to fix things doesn't exempt you from the real world.

We aren't terribly far out of agreement, but you still make things sound easier than what they really are for most people. For most of my working life, between me and my wife we grossed $25,000-28,000 a year. At that level of income one can get by, but savings will be minimal. Nowadays we're doing a bit better and make about $35,000 a year. The difference that $7,000-10,000 makes is HUGE. I'm still digging out from 10 years of lean times in the construction industry but by the end of the year we'll be back on much sounder footing. My point is most people don't have $2000 availible credit on a credit card or in savings, even if they do and use it for some emergency, then what? A few months later when the next disaster (and there's always a next one coming) comes along what do you do when there hasn't been time to pay off the card or rebuild the savings?

The fact of the matter is income isn't a nice bell curve, 35% of individuals make less than $25,000 a year and 70% make less than $50,000. Comparing an income of $60,000 to an income of $30,000 is like comparing apples to orangutangs.
That's how it is out here in the real world.

"most people" can't get a 2K credit card? Based on what?

As well, sorry, but when I was making significantly less than I am now, and living in one of the most expensive cities in the country, Boston, while an unexpected 2K expense would have been a pain in the ass, it would not have beggared me for years to come. Yes, if you have a string of emergencies, then eventually, you get to a place where you're fucked. However, you can "what if" any situation into the ground, including winning the lotto.

The *median* income in the US is 50K. Obviously there are people above it, and people below it. However, what Cunt asserted was that *80%* of the US population would be "totally fucked for years" by a single unexpected $2K expense, and that's completely unsupportable. It is not supported by anything but carefully crafted situations, and that's not how things work.

[JAB]

The board meeting at which Ron Lindsay’s behavior at Women in Secularism 2 will be one topic to be discussed is next week. If you are concerned about the direction CFI is taking, if you value it as an organization and want to see it improve, if you think Ron Lindsay has served the interests of CFI poorly, put it in writing and let them know now.

Now! Be constructive. Tell them what’s wrong and what needs to be fixed. This is the time to make a course correction, before the catastrophic crash.

This reminds me of a priest who urges his flock to vote for the Catholic candidate. He will not say: "Vote for candidate X". He will say: "If you are concerned about abortion, if you value the Catholic Church as a pillar of society, if you think the other candidate has lax moral standards, then let your conscience vote for you." No independent thought allowed.

The catastrophic crash of Pharyngula is long overdue. It's a site devoted to the pet hates of a frustrated and increasingly demented demagogue.

You know, if PZ had to answer to a board of directors, he never would have lasted long enough for any of us to have ever heard of him. Maybe that's why he never actually leads from in front, only from behind.

[Mykeru]

You know, if PZ had to answer to a board of directors, he never would have lasted long enough for any of us to have ever heard of him. Maybe that's why he never actually leads from in front, only from behind.

I was going to post this if the political discussion went on, but "leading from behind" is a thin enough rationalization.

http://i.imgur.com/TFUQG.jpg

Still makes me laugh.

Where's your God spoiler tag now?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

"The Minion"

Well, if IIRC from my weird porn years...

[AndrewV69]

To everyone else that is suffering my lack of condolences or support is because I always come across as insincere. Like many here, I suspect, we are all thinking of you.

I tend to restrict myself to a short PM a bit later myself.

[bovarchist]

Reminds me a lot of how some right-wing upper class racists in red states have tried to impose super-strict voter ID and registration procedures to block out poor and minority groups from having easy access to voting.

Could you imagine if the abortion thing were framed in terms of block-the-vote shenanigans? I could imagine some political cartoon, "Now, now, Negro. We'll just have to stick this up your rectum so you can have a good long hard think about if you *REALLY* want to vote."

I am hoping I read this wrong. Are you actually comparing ultrasounds to colonoscopies? I just...words don't...I am literally trembling with rage right now.

:violin: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Wonderist]

Penfold knows he's full of shit, he's just trying to poison the well in Dublin.

Well if he's full of shit that shouldn't be too hard. :hankey:

Holy crap I just put 2 and 2 together and realized it's 4!

What would be really funny is if the upcoming Dublin conference is in the same hotel as the EG one, and Justin does a little tour of the bar and kind of 're-enacts' the walk from the bar, to the elevator, up one floor and out. That would be so fucking hilarious. Like one of those Unsolved Mysteries shows, spooky music and all. lol On video of course!

[bovarchist]

As for scrolling, see what happens when you push down on your mouse's scroll whelk and move the cursor up or down while pressing the scroll wheel. This works on my desktop.

I tried using a scroll whelk for gaming, but Jesus, it made my mouse pad look like Stephanie Svan did a big fat split on it.

Scroll whelk? Oh, fer cryin' out loud, goddam iPhone auto correct.

Ah. I thought I'd just learned a new computer term. The movey-clicky thing is called a mouse, and the center wheel is called a whelk. Seemed reasonable. Thanks for clarifying before I started using the term in front of friends and family.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

To everyone else that is suffering my lack of condolences or support is because I always come across as insincere. Like many here, I suspect, we are all thinking of you.

I tend to restrict myself to a short PM a bit later myself.

To, for once, boost the FTB narrative, I think there is an idea of supporting people here who need a tinsy bit of internet support. Groupthink?

Again, thanks all for the kind messages, it helps a lot. The only 3 websites I've visited today are Nugent's, the Pit, and listverse. And Xvideo, french stuff and Gurdur's blog.

Blame me!

[Mykeru]

As for scrolling, see what happens when you push down on your mouse's scroll whelk and move the cursor up or down while pressing the scroll wheel. This works on my desktop.

I tried using a scroll whelk for gaming, but Jesus, it made my mouse pad look like Stephanie Svan did a big fat split on it.

Scroll whelk? Oh, fer cryin' out loud, goddam iPhone auto correct.

Ah. I thought I'd just learned a new computer term. The movey-clicky thing is called a mouse, and the center wheel is called a whelk. Seemed reasonable. Thanks for clarifying before I started using the term in front of friends and family.

That's mouse clit, ya moron.

[Wonderist]

You know, if PZ had to answer to a board of directors, he never would have lasted long enough for any of us to have ever heard of him. Maybe that's why he never actually leads from in front, only from behind.

I was going to post this if the political discussion went on, but "leading from behind" is a thin enough rationalization.

http://i.imgur.com/TFUQG.jpg

Still makes me laugh.

Where's your God spoiler tag now?

Misogynist! There are uncovered breasts showing in the paintings on the wall! Everybody knows such pornography oppresses women. Furthermore, the women in the paintings are all blurred out with no faces, clearly objectifying them.

[TheMudbrooker]

"most people" can't get a 2K credit card? Based on what?

As well, sorry, but when I was making significantly less than I am now, and living in one of the most expensive cities in the country, Boston, while an unexpected 2K expense would have been a pain in the ass, it would not have beggared me for years to come. Yes, if you have a string of emergencies, then eventually, you get to a place where you're fucked. However, you can "what if" any situation into the ground, including winning the lotto.

The *median* income in the US is 50K. Obviously there are people above it, and people below it. However, what Cunt asserted was that *80%* of the US population would be "totally fucked for years" by a single unexpected $2K expense, and that's completely unsupportable. It is not supported by anything but carefully crafted situations, and that's not how things work.

Getting a credit card is easy as can be, keeping the balance down so there's a decent amount of credit available, not so much.

[Zenspace]

As for scrolling, see what happens when you push down on your mouse's scroll whelk and move the cursor up or down while pressing the scroll wheel. This works on my desktop.

I tried using a scroll whelk for gaming, but Jesus, it made my mouse pad look like Stephanie Svan did a big fat split on it.

Scroll whelk? Oh, fer cryin' out loud, goddam iPhone auto correct.

Ah. I thought I'd just learned a new computer term. The movey-clicky thing is called a mouse, and the center wheel is called a whelk. Seemed reasonable. Thanks for clarifying before I started using the term in front of friends and family.

Damn, if I'd of known that, I would have let it go. :lol:

[windy]

Has anyone ever chatted with PZ at a conference face to face (not Justin obviously, as PZ likes to pretend that Justin is a harasser bla bla) ? I might be wrong, and it's just a feeling I get, but he seems quite sleazy.

I have, and I didn't get that impression (unless I'm just not his type? j/k!) I don't really have a problem with the on-stage 'humor' either, it's just the contrast with the crusade against OMG SEXUALIZATION OF WOMEN that makes it jarring.

Ah. I thought I'd just learned a new computer term. The movey-clicky thing is called a mouse, and the center wheel is called a whelk. Seemed reasonable. Thanks for clarifying before I started using the term in front of friends and family.

[youtube]rBI8uCKi2lI[/youtube]

[Michael J]

Has anyone ever chatted with PZ at a conference face to face (not Justin obviously, as PZ likes to pretend that Justin is a harasser bla bla) ? I might be wrong, and it's just a feeling I get, but he seems quite sleazy. I always wonder what his wife and kids think about him blatantly hitting on women while doing card tricks on stage, constant sexualed remarks in every video I've seen him in, and that rape joke last week about how everybody needs a shower after they've raped someone on that google hangout session (and amazingly, that rape-enabler Jadehawk smiled and laughed at his RAPE joke! I fucking hate rape-enablers).

PZ's pathetic attempts at humor are easily his most offensive feature. They give me chills.

I don't know what he is like at one of the drinking sessions but I saw him and talked to him at the two Melbourne conferences. At the first conference I sat next to him at the dinner. I found him shy and (like me) seemingly socially awkward. Also especially at the first conference he was walking around by himself rather than than being mobbed or walking with the other speakers. Again this might be different when he is at the pub. This was before I got myself edumucated about the rift(tm). Was it Skep Tickle who mentioned talking to PZ at a conference somewhere and he seemed to get angry. Is it possible that it wasn't anger but an inability to handle conflict in the flesh.

[AnimalAndy]

A nice take on how to deal with trolls and how the comment section has become more important than the actual story.

"In the same way that I advise my second grader to ignore little boys who taunt her on the playground, I am advising writers to either disable their comments or, if they don’t wanna do that, to ignore what they read.

“Easier said than done,” say my writer friends.

"Then don’t write on the internet," is my response. The game is rapidly changing and we are writing the rule book. Who wrote the one that says writers have to subject themselves to verbal abuse? Let's rewrite that one cause it's dumb.

However we choose to deal with it, one thing is certain. The comments need to stop becoming the story.

The comments simply HAVE to STOP becoming the story.

Because as surely as Timmy is encouraged on the playground every time Bunny yells, “Stop it!” idiots are encouraged by every single “Look what people are saying on twitter.”

I graduated second grade and I wouldn’t go back for a million dollars so let’s all collectively agree to just be adults."

Jezebel's Lindy West is Way Too Mature to Be in Second Grade
http://www.chicagonow.com/mama-bunny-pi ... ond-grade/

[Michael J]

Doe anybody know Ron Lindsay personally? The reaction to his speech wasn't a surprise to anybody here, and he could very well lose his position over the speech. Did he believe that after his speech the SJW brigade would say "Jolly good, I can see we have been wrong all this time. Thank you for pointing it out to us".

This is playing out different than I would have guessed a few months ago. I always thought the FTB would just slowly disappear into irrelevance as people either drift over here or join 90% of the skeptic/atheist population and ignore the fights.

However, with Lindsay's speech and Dawkins making more and more snarky comments it seems that people are increasingly taking sides. How long will it take until Nugent is the witch of the week merely for suggesting people talk to one another.

[another lurker]

The anti-abortion movement, in the end, from politicians anyways, the ones making the stupid laws, is about getting votes. Specifically, if you want to run in the bible belt, and plan to go national at any point in your career, you need to impress the religious right.

And one surefire way to impress the religious right is to shit out a bunch of stupid laws that attack contraception and abortion. It doesn't matter how stupid the law is, or if the law treats women like imbeciles, all that matters is impressing the right people. Many of the asshats who have recently tried to pass anti-contraception and some of the worst anti-abortion laws are all angling for bigger jobs in Washington. And to get noticed, they need the pro-life wingnuts on their side. It's that simple.

[AndrewV69]

"The Minion"

Well, if IIRC from my weird porn years...

Aye. I remember him. A quick search and he is still at it: http://www.theminion.com


*cackle*

Funny how the one image in the entire set where the girl is not smiling is the one that gets circulated the most.

[Mykeru]

Do you know what I miss?.....Ragging on Greg Laden. What happened with all that?

It's because Greg Laden shut his flap-hole and stopped saying and doing stupid shit. Well, in regards to atheism/skepticsm at least. I understand he's more into environmental stuff these days, though Greg being Greg, he's also attracted some pushback on that front as well (according to post by Svanatee a while back). I'm guessing the reason he's persona non grata in those quarters is unlikely to be down much incisive intellect and biting wit flowing from that testosterone-damaged woman's brain of his.

I like to think I was the final straw in the push-back against his shenanigans. Because the alternative is that he just wised up on his own and, really, I can't see that.

[Tribble]

[quote="Karmakin]
This as well. This actually makes abortion a class issue, not just a gender issue....although good luck getting the privileged SJW's to recognize that part of it.[/quote]

It's always been a class issue. Well-off-to-rich, white people (like most of the people in my family) can just fly to Europe. Or if they're connected to doctors, like my family again, you can have one arranged to be performed (but they're not called abortions) on the QT at a nice hospital. I know my father arranged one for one of my mom's friends during pre-Roe times.

Something not talked about is the race component. I know of a study done on abortion protesters using actors and a hidden camera. It was very telling. Minority women got far, far less harassment than white women. Seems that when a black woman needed an abortion, it was always during 'coffee break' time... Or tie my shoes break time... Or "I need a rest' break time...

White girl comes in, and they're all magically restored. Now, it's true there are true zealots in the bunch. A few always protested regardless of race. But far, far too many made it clear they against white abortions.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I felt it was a massive victory for the Pit - one we can be very proud of - that we got Meyers and his hovering swarm of charmless idiots to stop telling people to push porcupines into their recta.

Sadly, the clowns have become even more boorish and threatening:

Username "vaiyt": Fuck you. Fuck you to death with a thousand burning fucksticks.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-632428

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Amphiox decides to keep s/h/it's tone level, calm and considered while trying to make its point. My highlighting:

Late-term abortions, as I’ve noted, is not really a major issue, relatively speaking.

Which is why making a law specifically to outlaw them is an onerous, unnecessary, and unjustifiable exercise of state tyranny.

You get your abortions before fetal viablity or risk the consequences.

The life-threatening complications of late-term pregnancies that require emergency abortions most commonly arise AFTER the time period of fetal viability, you pathetic ignorant inhuman piece of shit.

These are WANTED pregnancies, you pathetic ignorant inhuman piece of shit, anticipated and desired until disaster strikes after the 30 week mark.

The women and families involved are in MOURNING, you pathetic ignorant inhuman piece of shit, and you want to add to their private burden with onerous and tyrannical state regulation.

In my opinion, the human rights of a viable fetus trumps the reproductive rights of women.

Your OPINION, you ignorant, murderous, inhuman piece of shit, is a MINORITY one. No jurisdiction in the civilized world grants human rights to fetuses, viable or not, even the ones that outlaw late-term abortions. Fetuses may be granted some consideration in some laws in some places, but NO WHERE are they granted full human rights. Not even in the bible, where a viable fetus is a piece of property equivalent in worth to one cow.

It’s murder versus convenience.

A fetus is not a baby, you murderous inhuman piece shit. Abortion is not murder.

It is not convenience, you pitiful inhuman piece of shit. Viable pregnancy terminations done for convenience are done by INDUCED BIRTH, and the fetus lives. Abortions are done for MEDICAL EMERGENCY.

It is in fact about murder. The MURDER, by inhuman murderous pieces of shit like you, jimashby, of sick and suffering pregnant women.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Link for amphiox:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-632193

[bovarchist]

"The Minion"

Well, if IIRC from my weird porn years...

Aye. I remember him. A quick search and he is still at it: http://www.theminion.com


*cackle*

Funny how the one image in the entire set where the girl is not smiling is the one that gets circulated the most.

omg the color of his inner thighs...it's like his anus industrialized and began forming an empire.

[Tribble]

Do you know what I miss?.....Ragging on Greg Laden. What happened with all that?

It's because Greg Laden shut his flap-hole and stopped saying and doing stupid shit. Well, in regards to atheism/skepticsm at least. I understand he's more into environmental stuff these days, though Greg being Greg, he's also attracted some pushback on that front as well (according to post by Svanatee a while back). I'm guessing the reason he's persona non grata in those quarters is unlikely to be down much incisive intellect and biting wit flowing from that testosterone-damaged woman's brain of his.

I had a laugh at that little testosterone thing... It's like he has some idea of fetal development, but not enough to get it right.

[Tigzy]

...It's like he has some idea of fetal development, but not enough to get it right.

Given what I've seen of Greg's aptitudes in so many fields, I could well believe him quite capable of fucking up his own fetal development.

[didymos]

New Yemmy poem. It's awful:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... less-love/

[Sulaco]

Do you know what I miss?.....Ragging on Greg Laden. What happened with all that?

It's because Greg Laden shut his flap-hole and stopped saying and doing stupid shit. Well, in regards to atheism/skepticsm at least. I understand he's more into environmental stuff these days, though Greg being Greg, he's also attracted some pushback on that front as well (according to post by Svanatee a while back). I'm guessing the reason he's persona non grata in those quarters is unlikely to be down much incisive intellect and biting wit flowing from that testosterone-damaged woman's brain of his.

Nah, he was walking down the street and there were women on both sidewalks so he jumped in front of a bus.

[LMU]

I felt it was a massive victory for the Pit - one we can be very proud of - that we got Meyers and his hovering swarm of charmless idiots to stop telling people to push porcupines into their recta.

Sadly, the clowns have become even more boorish and threatening:

Username "vaiyt": Fuck you. Fuck you to death with a thousand burning fucksticks.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-632428

That's a problem with newspeak and censorship. It keeps restricting your vocabulary. More generally, it's important to keep trying things you dislike (foods, experiences, words), because otherwise the pool of things that you do like will shrink, and once you recalibrate to your smaller palette, it will shrink again, each time excising the thing you liked least.

Don't they know that sticks are tools of patriarchal oppression and triggering to some people? Fire too. Death is part of the circle of life, so maybe it's okay for now. Unless someone lost a loved one recently, or a pet within the last decade, and find that triggering too. So you're left with "fuck". Unless you make up new words and meanings for words, then you're a real smart cupcake.

[katamari Damassi]

Penfold knows he's full of shit, he's just trying to poison the well in Dublin.

Well if he's full of shit that shouldn't be too hard. :hankey:

Holy crap I just put 2 and 2 together and realized it's 4!

What would be really funny is if the upcoming Dublin conference is in the same hotel as the EG one, and Justin does a little tour of the bar and kind of 're-enacts' the walk from the bar, to the elevator, up one floor and out. That would be so fucking hilarious. Like one of those Unsolved Mysteries shows, spooky music and all. lol On video of course!

It would great if Karla were going. She could play the Becky role.

[katamari Damassi]

Do you know what I miss?.....Ragging on Greg Laden. What happened with all that?

It's because Greg Laden shut his flap-hole and stopped saying and doing stupid shit. Well, in regards to atheism/skepticsm at least. I understand he's more into environmental stuff these days, though Greg being Greg, he's also attracted some pushback on that front as well (according to post by Svanatee a while back). I'm guessing the reason he's persona non grata in those quarters is unlikely to be down much incisive intellect and biting wit flowing from that testosterone-damaged woman's brain of his.

Nah, he was walking down the street and there were women on both sidewalks so he jumped in front of a bus.

You just won the Internet!