cunt wrote:There you go, $1700 for Justin to get a passport, some of his money converted and presumably eat only swans neck in Ireland for 3 days. Maybe a new mic for his laptop. Trophy said it best, if you're donating to this you are a big sucker.
There's been lots of shit here in recent pages about how what I do is somehow "not working" or not an effective use of my time. I wonder what some of you saying these things suggest is my "best use of time" and why I should care. What, too, are you doing in accord with this forum and related activities compared to what I am doing - and why is what you are doing is better?
I've taken some constructive criticism from some people who seemed to have actually cared - to consider reducing 'self-promotion' in here and elsewhere (I have joined in conversations more, posted commentary here more instead of mostly posting links). I've reconsidered some Tweets and statements I have made and reached out to people on Skype who want to talk - and learned from it.
I'm out on the front line against #ftbullies and have taken many hits over recent months - getting many results, exposing hypocrisy, and alerting people to nonsense. Everyone here contributes in their own way. There's no "best" way to advance goals people might have, but rather many approaches which reach to many people - all or most effective for different reasons. Like me or not, something is working. ...and I appreciate the work of people here who even feel it important for whatever reason to suggest I should spend my time as they see fit because you keep this forum going and inspire others to keep going.
Get real Justin. I haven't said anything about whether or not you going to Dublin is an effective use of your time. I've just noted that you seem to have given yourself at least a $1000 "cushion".
To be fair, this $1,000+ cushion can save his goddamn life. Somehow.
cunt wrote:
Get real Justin. I haven't said anything about whether or not you going to Dublin is an effective use of your time. I've just noted that you seem to have given yourself at least a $1000 "cushion".
Yup, a bit more clarity about this would be welcomed.
Transportation is probably very low especially considering the hotel is not right by the airport and that I may have to spend more to get to the hotel from the airport and from the hotel to the airport when I am leaving. I might also have to go to Philly in order to get the passport resolved faster. I might also need to get transportation to whichever airport I use to go to Ireland (and then to go back from that airport).
I may have to incur a charge for currency conversion.
Other miscellaneous expenses may pop up.
Initial expenses were 3000-3100 when just using the above numbers. After speaking to people with experience with fundraisers like this/crowdfunding, I was suggested to round up because initial estimate is low and other things might pop up including a possibility of not making the goal and having to spend a higher funding cut.
I've never traveled in a plane and really don't know what to completely expect. The fundraiser, too, was proposed following my return from #WIScfi and does not allow for too much planning - especially because the Dublin conference is weeks away. An extra cushion of around $400, especially when considering the low estimates, will be very helpful. Additionally monies, too, go to keep Brave Hero Radio online and will go to improve the sound quality of the show.
Thanks for this Justin and once again good luck with it.
Why the fuck would you estimate it when you have access to the internet. A room in the conference hotel for that weekend costs $1800 including flights. Not $2276.
cunt wrote:Why the fuck would you estimate it when you have access to the internet. A room in the conference hotel for that weekend costs $1800 including flights. Not $2276.
I estimate the individual expenses and round up because I can't possibly consider every dime spent and every possible expense. This is not like I am walking to a store and buying a pizza.
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Or donating to my "send a Frenchman wearing a baklava to Dublin" fundraiser!
I'll even give Myers the finger (or two) if needs be. You can't get a better deal. Apart from that, no, I won't do anything constructive. Tempting, isn't it?
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Justin: hang in there, you're doing fine. Some of the stuff posted about you in the last hour or so sounds like SJW crap.
No offense to those who posted this stuff. Just go and buy yourselves some Fluvogs instead!
(sorry, pissy again today.)
Constantly seeking some form of notoriety. Ginning up controversy for blog-hits. Getting other people to pay him to travel around the world on vacation. It certainly does sound familiar. Just not in the way you think.
I read this story expecting warm fuzzy feeling. Instead, I starting thinking that it made atheists look like self-absorbed assholes. I mean, think about it. A disaster strikes a community, and the atheists band together to raise money for....one person. Because she happens to be an atheist. And then we have the gall to pat ourselves on the back:
At the fund-raising website Indiegogo, atheists have set up a relief fund for Vitsun, who lost her house in the storm and most of her possessions.
“Let’s show the world that you dont need to believe in a god to have human compassion nor does all charity fall under the banner of religion,†says the site. “Let’s get this courageous woman and her family back in their own home.â€
Really? You mean that the purpose of helping people is to score points for our own particular cause? It's uncomfortably like those politicians who make a show of public prayer so everybody can see how pious they are. It's obnoxious when they do it, and it's obnoxious when we do it too.
Sorry, I know I was one who was enthusiastic about this when it was first proposed. But what seemed like such a wonderful idea just seems kind of tawdry now. I'm glad Vitsun is getting some help. I just wish this hadn't turned into a PR stunt for atheists.
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:If Cunt ever gets to Nice, he'll have a comfy couch to sleep on. Same applies to other Pitters, of course.
I will always encourage people to visit other countries and learn about different cultures.
Careful now, I might take you up on that.
I don't think Justin's going to learn much about Irish culture sitting in a hotel conference centre listening to a bunch of american speakers, but that's just me.
Having apparently fixed all of the world's problem, the 'Pit decides to complain about how anonymous people spend their money? ;)
Guys, free markets. I can't understand why people would spend money to send JV to Dublin, but I can't understand why people spend money on Crocs, soccer shirts, or Macklemore songs either. Yet apparently some people do. Hey, what skin is it off my nose?
Garlic wrote:Having apparently fixed all of the world's problem, the 'Pit decides to complain about how anonymous people spend their money? ;)
Guys, free markets. I can't understand why people would spend money to send JV to Dublin, but I can't understand why people spend money on Crocs, soccer shirts, or Macklemore songs either. Yet apparently some people do. Hey, what skin is it off my nose?
Is anyone stopping people from donating money just by questioning it? No? Then fuck off.
cunt wrote:Why the fuck would you estimate it when you have access to the internet. A room in the conference hotel for that weekend costs $1800 including flights. Not $2276.
$1500 seems a reasonable estimate for the flight. There is one flight at ~$1350, but it has one seat available. Who knows if it will still be available by the time he makes his fund-raising goal. The rest of the flights are $1475+ I wouldn't suggest that he book his flight before having everything taken care of just to satisfy a cranky cunt on the internet.
$776 seems oddly high for the hotel. Unless he is planning to get in a day early or stay longer, I don't see how E159 a night gets to $776. That said, it appears the conference hotel is full that weekend.
Shrug. As far as Im concerned, quibbling over the costs is arranging deck chairs. I simply don't see the point of Justin going. He made his point at WIS2, showing up again seems obsessive. I think the money would be better spent sponsoring local women to go to the conference. Perhaps he could send them all t-shirts that say, "Im here because of Justin Vacula" That would satisfy his attention whoring and manage to show up the SJWs at the same time. If played right, sending 20 or so women to the conference could be a great PR coup.
Percentage wrote:Yeah, what is with this anti-Vacula crap? Good-natured ribbing is one thing, but I'm seeing some negative stuff here, which is bullshit. I very much enjoyed JV's dedicated and informative WiS commentary; the only other person who updated half as much was Miri, and for obvious reasons I'd much rather give Vacula my time. If he wants to attend WiS in Dublin, I'm all for it.
This is my view too.
If one doesn't want to pay to send JV to Ireland, then don't pay. If people think JV is paying too much for this trip, then they are free to try to play travel agent to bring the costs down, but otherwise I'll grant that JV is budgeting for what he thinks it will cost. I'd be disappointed to discover that JV was spending any extra on fluevogs and blow, but so long as he does what he said he'd do, I wouldn't mind too much. I think I've voiced similar perspectives a couple times, but if it seems like I'm not very supportive, then it's because one of the things I like about JV is that most abuse just seems to roll off of him; he doesn't seem like he needs much support.
It's just a tool to get (old) people upright if they fall, nothing lifesaving about it, just back-saving for the personnel.
I've worked a bit with taking care of elderly persons still living in their homes (dunno the correct term for it, cba to google atm), and due to age, sickness, and sometimes medication, their balance can be quite bad, so it's not all that unusual that they fall and just can't get up from of the floor themselves. We had about one or two calls per week IIRC. At least for at the place where I worked, the rules were that you always needed to be two persons helping the fallen up, to prevent us employees from getting back-injury, so a tool like that could've been really helpful. One person less who have to drop everything they are doing to run off to the emergency on the other side of the town could probably save $1000 quite quickly?
(sorry if I failed to "get" something, I haven't slept for about 30 hours so I'm even thicker than usual atm)
cunt wrote:Why the fuck would you estimate it when you have access to the internet. A room in the conference hotel for that weekend costs $1800 including flights. Not $2276.
$1500 seems a reasonable estimate for the flight. There is one flight at ~$1350, but it has one seat available. Who knows if it will still be available by the time he makes his fund-raising goal. The rest of the flights are $1475+ I wouldn't suggest that he book his flight before having everything taken care of just to satisfy a cranky cunt on the internet.
$776 seems oddly high for the hotel. Unless he is planning to get in a day early or stay longer, I don't see how E159 a night gets to $776. That said, it appears the conference hotel is full that weekend.
Shrug. As far as Im concerned, quibbling over the costs is arranging deck chairs.
Yeah, you know you just quibbled over costs and then declared it to be pointless.
Tony Parsehole wrote:I wish people would send me to far away countries on the proviso I send regular tweets to everybody whilst I'm there.
Must be nice. I wonder if we'll see the donators to this thing whining about PZ/Watsons airfare and the environmental cost in the next month.
I can whine about the environmental cost of JV's trip now if you prefer- at least there's some sort of rationale for sending the same well-known speakers to faraway places so the locals can see them in person, but sponsoring the same attendee to listen to pretty much the same speakers as he did a month before, except on a different continent? The point? :think:
Dick S. wrote:On a more charitable note I saw that there were a few people visiting the Irish Atheists facebook site and lamenting the fact that they couldn't afford the conference cost. Perhaps it might be a good gesture, if there is some overflow with the donations, to offer to sponsor one or two of them for the conference fee?
cunt wrote:Why the fuck would you estimate it when you have access to the internet. A room in the conference hotel for that weekend costs $1800 including flights. Not $2276.
$1500 seems a reasonable estimate for the flight. There is one flight at ~$1350, but it has one seat available. Who knows if it will still be available by the time he makes his fund-raising goal. The rest of the flights are $1475+ I wouldn't suggest that he book his flight before having everything taken care of just to satisfy a cranky cunt on the internet.
$776 seems oddly high for the hotel. Unless he is planning to get in a day early or stay longer, I don't see how E159 a night gets to $776. That said, it appears the conference hotel is full that weekend.
Shrug. As far as Im concerned, quibbling over the costs is arranging deck chairs.
Yeah, you know you just quibbled over costs and then declared it to be pointless.
Congratulations, you like everyone else who has ever met me have discovered that Im an anal pendant.
cunt wrote:$3500 for a three night stay in Dublin. :think:
If that's the price its nuts. You can get good deals for a fraction of that near or in town. Someone needs to be a better negotiator.
I presume the majority of the cost is for the high season plane flights rather than the hotel rooms and conference fee.
On a more charitable note I saw that there were a few people visiting the Irish Atheists facebook site and lamenting the fact that they couldn't afford the conference cost.
Perhaps it might be a good gesture, if there is some overflow with the donations, to offer to sponsor one or two of them for the conference fee?
I guess it will have to be locals who can avail of that but it would highlight one issue that was raised on Nugents blog - namely the fact that there were lots of Irish women who wanted to attend but could not afford the fee - all the while Nugent was prepared to pay thousands of dollars to fly PZ Myers there, a man whose main contribution to women in secularism is in launching witchhunts of those that refuse to shut up and listen to the Patriarch of Pharyngula, of posting tentacle rape porn, promoting his friend's rape fantasy literature, and of making sexist comments live on stage at Skepticon3.
Oh yes, life-long feminist, wasn't it?
I support this move. If Justin uses the money to send locals to the convention instead, he'll not only save face, he'll make the fainting couch brigade look like greedy sticks in the mud.
Gumby wrote:
There are MUCH better things you could do with the funds you have received, things that actually involve SOCAS or humanitarian causes.
If the end result is PeeZuss and O et. al. boycotting any conference that JV attends then that is a worthy cause. Because at some point they are going to figure out that JV is Franc and they are being hoggled.
cunt wrote:Why the fuck would you estimate it when you have access to the internet. A room in the conference hotel for that weekend costs $1800 including flights. Not $2276.
$1500 seems a reasonable estimate for the flight. There is one flight at ~$1350, but it has one seat available. Who knows if it will still be available by the time he makes his fund-raising goal. The rest of the flights are $1475+ I wouldn't suggest that he book his flight before having everything taken care of just to satisfy a cranky cunt on the internet.
$776 seems oddly high for the hotel. Unless he is planning to get in a day early or stay longer, I don't see how E159 a night gets to $776. That said, it appears the conference hotel is full that weekend.
Shrug. As far as Im concerned, quibbling over the costs is arranging deck chairs.
Yeah, you know you just quibbled over costs and then declared it to be pointless.
Congratulations, you like everyone else who has ever met me have discovered that Im an anal pendant.
Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Oh oh, tone troll!
As fast as were getting people were also losing them. I have no interest at all in stupid internal internet feuds that keep repeating themselves like a stuck record. We should be attacking those causing real damage not those who are actively doing something to try and help even if their tactics are sometimes misguided and self promotional.
justinvacula wrote:An anonymous donor just contributed - fundraiser is now at $1800 in a matter of minutes! The 'pit is strong! :o
No offense meant to either you or your donor, but that seems like an extraordinarily large amount for something like this, and IMO would be much better spent in Oklahoma than Dublin. Also: wouldn't it be better for your own PR, atheism PR in general, and society, if you were to skip the conference altogether and go help tornado victims instead?
It's your time, and their money, and you all can do whatever you want with it, it just seems like a waste to me.
With Vacula it's just like this, except they got the name wrong:
People give shitloads of money in a very short space of time to send the Vacoola to Ireland = shitloads of pissed off baboons, tears of rage at the injustice of it all, hissy fits from peezod as his delusional bubble of being the voice of atheism gets popped once more. Rants from the professional victims, fuck me what's not to like?
As for giving the dough to a worthy cause, fuck that, people donated specifically for this jaunt, for their own reasons, redirecting the monies would be a breach of agreement.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Yeah, cuz all the product placements had really classed the joint up.
Gumby wrote:Of course, this is just my opinion, as Andrew always says "YMMV"
Indeed. YMMV.
Also note that any excess funds should be used to buy some really expensive shoes.
mikelf wrote:Y'all aren't sticking your finger in PZ's eye. You're funding an advertising campaign.
Collateral damage and well worth it.
Southern wrote:
And if Franc doesn't want to go and reveal himself, we could send a random person pretending to be Victor Ivanoff, pretending to be Franc. The lulz would be the same, if not greater.
Seeing as JV is Franc then yes that would work.
Gumby wrote:
Can I leave now? I've been trying to micro-flounce for half a fucking hour now! :lol:
Yes with the understanding that if you do not come back, then we are going to come haul your sorry ass back in here.
justinvacula wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:Justin. if you promise to spend the excess money on a pair of shitty designer clogs I will donate at least a tenner.
Done! No fluevogs! I'll even denounce fluevogs via Twitter (or whatever you would like) for $15 :o
NO YOU PRAT! If you get fluevogs you can say you have walked in Greta's shoes!!!!
(Also make sure you cross your legs to everyone can see the red soles)
cunt wrote:
Must be nice. I wonder if we'll see the donators to this thing whining about PZ/Watsons airfare and the environmental cost in the next month.
Shut up ya cunt.
Pitchguest wrote:I support this move. If Justin uses the money to send locals to the convention instead, he'll not only save face, he'll make the fainting couch brigade look like greedy sticks in the mud.
Sorry but once the FC(n) realize that JV is going to show up at every conference they attend from now on that is a priceless gift to humanity.
Jack wrote:Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.
Oh oh, tone troll!
As fast as were getting people were also losing them.
cunt wrote:$3500 for a three night stay in Dublin. :think:
If that's the price its nuts. You can get good deals for a fraction of that near or in town. Someone needs to be a better negotiator.
I presume the majority of the cost is for the high season plane flights rather than the hotel rooms and conference fee.
I'm flying business class to Europe late July from Seattle, for $3450 round trip. Flights in cattle class are typically $1200-1500, less from the East Coast airports where there is more competition.
Trophy wrote:
Oh, it was so very productive: people got to talk about JV. Peole make blog posts about JV. People tweeted things about JV. JV even got
to have MrSmartyPants MrAhteistPants to appear on his show. So as you can see, it was very productive, well, at least if
you are a JV. For all the non-Justin Vacula people, it was not productive at all.
Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. Let the boy have some fun.
Another way to look at it is if Justin went to WIS2 and then didn't follow up, it would prove the point previously made by the same people criticizing now that the first time it was a one-off stunt without purpose.
If you want to have an ambassador for burying the hatchet and proving the threat narrative people wrong, Justin is a good pick. First, he's so innocuous that he might not even have a blood type. Second, he paid his dues in the form of being harassed, targeted and generally fucking lied about by the same people in attendance at the conferences who are used to winning by forfeit. If these people are proven wrong about Justin's intentions or any intentions of a male taking interest, it's worth proving them wrong again.
You may claim nothing new was learned by Justin's live blogging, so in that case I would assume you are content to know what, if anything, happens as filtered by the usual cadre of ideologue scumbags because, as we know, people like Ophelia Benson, Rebecca Watson and Melody Hensley just scream "reliable narrator".
Is there some self promotion in what Justin is doing? Yes. That's how it's done. That's how you raise your profile, that's how you get things done, that's how you potentially displace the usual incestuous group of relentless self-promoters who are not only self-promoting but doing harm to the skeptical movement. If you are not capitalizing on a chance at self-promotion then you are probably like me, which means sadly lacking in the minimal level of ambition to succeed.
Stop tearing the man down because he's just not doing what you would do and, on that point, someone remind me what you have done lately.
Gumby wrote:
You are intentionally evading the point, dummy.
Fuck it. You can raise money for whatever completely irrelevant, non-productive and self-promoting purpose you want, Justin. Once again, you go the cheap attention-whore route. No surprise there.
What is the "point?"
What do you want me doing with my time....and why?
When you talk about what is a "waste" or what is "worth the time," this is all about what you think - obviously much different than what others think is a good use of time. How do you measure what is the "best" use of time? Why ought others agree with your conclusions?
I don't go about telling people things like "Stop wasting time on Netflix," "Stop playing MMOs," "Hiking is a waste of time," etc. It seems most odd considering others have different priorities than I do.
Most people don't ask others to fund those activities.
cunt wrote:$3500 for a three night stay in Dublin. :think:
If that's the price its nuts. You can get good deals for a fraction of that near or in town. Someone needs to be a better negotiator.
I presume the majority of the cost is for the high season plane flights rather than the hotel rooms and conference fee.
I'm flying business class to Europe late July from Seattle, for $3450 round trip. Flights in cattle class are typically $1200-1500, less from the East Coast airports where there is more competition.
Wait a sec! It used to be around 800 US$ round trip. Whatever happened to the economy?
Trophy wrote:
Oh, it was so very productive: people got to talk about JV. Peole make blog posts about JV. People tweeted things about JV. JV even got
to have MrSmartyPants MrAhteistPants to appear on his show. So as you can see, it was very productive, well, at least if
you are a JV. For all the non-Justin Vacula people, it was not productive at all.
Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. Let the boy have some fun.
Another way to look at it is if Justin went to WIS2 and then didn't follow up, it would prove the point previously made by the same people criticizing now that the first time it was a one-off stunt without purpose.
If you want to have an ambassador for burying the hatchet and proving the threat narrative people wrong, Justin is a good pick. First, he's so innocuous that he might not even have a blood type. Second, he paid his dues in the form of being harassed, targeted and generally fucking lied about by the same people in attendance at the conferences who are used to winning by forfeit. If these people are proven wrong about Justin's intentions or any intentions of a male taking interest, it's worth proving them wrong again.
You may claim nothing new was learned by Justin's live blogging, so in that case I would assume you are content to know what, if anything, happens as filtered by the usual cadre of ideologue scumbags because, as we know, people like Ophelia Benson, Rebecca Watson and Melody Hensley just scream "reliable narrator".
Is there some self promotion in what Justin is doing? Yes. That's how it's done. That's how you raise your profile, that's how you get things done, that's how you potentially displace the usual incestuous group of relentless self-promoters who are not only self-promoting but doing harm to the skeptical movement. If you are not capitalizing on a chance at self-promotion then you are probably like me, which means sadly lacking in the minimal level of ambition to succeed.
Stop tearing the man down because he's just not doing what you would do and, on that point, someone remind me what you have done lately.
There should be a slow golf clap there, somehow. I agree wholeheartfully, if that's an actual word.
cunt wrote:$3500 for a three night stay in Dublin. :think:
If that's the price its nuts. You can get good deals for a fraction of that near or in town. Someone needs to be a better negotiator.
I presume the majority of the cost is for the high season plane flights rather than the hotel rooms and conference fee.
I'm flying business class to Europe late July from Seattle, for $3450 round trip. Flights in cattle class are typically $1200-1500, less from the East Coast airports where there is more competition.
Wait a sec! It used to be around 800 US$ round trip. Whatever happened to the economy?
cunt wrote:There you go, $1700 for Justin to get a passport, some of his money converted and presumably eat only swans neck in Ireland for 3 days. Maybe a new mic for his laptop. Trophy said it best, if you're donating to this you are a big sucker.
Please. Everyone knows the bar tab is the most expensive part of any conference.
