Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

[bhoytony]

Fascist Tit.com

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3579/bqb9.png

[Parody Accountant]

I say Lsuoma. People like Renee will self-identify as invaluable assets to the team, and it's not like we have to tell her 'no, and fuck off!!!'

Seriously, go for the NO $$$ policy. That shit is cancer. Lsuoma is right as fuck about that. If you're putting in hard work writing about what you're talking about, it means you give a shit. Not about the money, but about the issue.

If you want three dollars for your blog post, get with examiner.com or some shit. I'd gladly write an artsy fartsy image-heavy 'blog', but only if it was *not* ad-supported.

[justinvacula]

For example, both Thunderf00t & the Angry Atheist have both address Rift/Gender issues. But it is a small percentage of their content and they don't let it consume them. Which way you want to go is up to you. Single subject gender wars blog networks like A Voice for Men & any number of feminist blogs certainly exist and have decent reader bases. But I honestly don't think diving back in whole hog to the gender wars is personally the best direction for Justin. It would just turn him into another Ophelia, PZ Meyers, Watson or A Voice for Men blogger. I suspect he has far more diverse interests that the shit sandwiches which are being fed to him. Justin needs to take positive steps to define who he is, which means taking positive steps forward vs. just reacting to all of the negative.

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

[Zenspace]

Renee at one point was pondering starting a blog network; I don't know if she decided to drop the idea or not.

I think this was the spur I needed. I have a shit ton of space on my server. It's just a matter of installing WP in a network mode and getting things rolling. Checking into that now.

Have no idea what to call it though.

The Skeptic Tank?

Oh, yeah, for the WIN! :clap: :lol:

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Who's interested?

Count me in...terested.

[Gumby]

For example, both Thunderf00t & the Angry Atheist have both address Rift/Gender issues. But it is a small percentage of their content and they don't let it consume them. Which way you want to go is up to you. Single subject gender wars blog networks like A Voice for Men & any number of feminist blogs certainly exist and have decent reader bases. But I honestly don't think diving back in whole hog to the gender wars is personally the best direction for Justin. It would just turn him into another Ophelia, PZ Meyers, Watson or A Voice for Men blogger. I suspect he has far more diverse interests that the shit sandwiches which are being fed to him. Justin needs to take positive steps to define who he is, which means taking positive steps forward vs. just reacting to all of the negative.

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

You did real good in Dublin, Justin. Professional indeed. Now if you would only explain this whole Lindsay/Watson ice cube thing...

[Badger3k]

Well, Zinnia Jones is supposed to go testify in the Bradley Manning Trial.

No word whether she will be for the defense or the prosecution. I imagine if they let her on the stand, she won't be doing Manning any favors. On the other hand, I think her "I survived testosterone poisoning" t-shirt is very Ladenesque.

[Metalogic42]

For example, both Thunderf00t & the Angry Atheist have both address Rift/Gender issues. But it is a small percentage of their content and they don't let it consume them. Which way you want to go is up to you. Single subject gender wars blog networks like A Voice for Men & any number of feminist blogs certainly exist and have decent reader bases. But I honestly don't think diving back in whole hog to the gender wars is personally the best direction for Justin. It would just turn him into another Ophelia, PZ Meyers, Watson or A Voice for Men blogger. I suspect he has far more diverse interests that the shit sandwiches which are being fed to him. Justin needs to take positive steps to define who he is, which means taking positive steps forward vs. just reacting to all of the negative.

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

It's good to hear that you're moving forward. But I think it would be to your benefit to make a public statement about Skeptic Ink's decision to let you go.

[Parody Accountant]

P.A.:

cat throwing up.jay peg

:lol:

I did that one in 2 minutes, thought it was 'hella awesome', but then saw the conversation... should have held onto that one. The one time when potentially important shit gets discussed lol.

[ReneeHendricks]

If anyone is still interested in my offer, let me know. I have it up and running. Just need to pick a name and domain.

[Skep tickle]

Re SIN:

Well bowl* me over.

That sure came out of left field*.







*No disrespect intended toward any player of any sport that might be suggested by my remarks.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

For example, both Thunderf00t & the Angry Atheist have both address Rift/Gender issues. But it is a small percentage of their content and they don't let it consume them. Which way you want to go is up to you. Single subject gender wars blog networks like A Voice for Men & any number of feminist blogs certainly exist and have decent reader bases. But I honestly don't think diving back in whole hog to the gender wars is personally the best direction for Justin. It would just turn him into another Ophelia, PZ Meyers, Watson or A Voice for Men blogger. I suspect he has far more diverse interests that the shit sandwiches which are being fed to him. Justin needs to take positive steps to define who he is, which means taking positive steps forward vs. just reacting to all of the negative.

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

Your Dublin interviews were the first of yours I've listened to. Intelligent, witty, nicely-recorded and just...great really, considering the pressure you must have been under at this conference for the obvious reasons. Plus, your voice was unexpectedly very pleasant, and smooth.

I'm sorry for you for what's happened today, and I appreciate the real-word work you do.

[Slither]

Seriously, go for the NO $$$ policy. That shit is cancer. Lsuoma is right as fuck about that. If you're putting in hard work writing about what you're talking about, it means you give a shit. Not about the money, but about the issue.

Oh, for heaven's sake! I've heard this a billion times -- "You! Write things that I like! But don't ask me to pay for it, or put up ads,'cause I want you to give me everything I want for free! And if you don't, I'll call you names!"

Look, in the real world, people have mortgages. People have food bills. People have heating bills. We pay people who produce things that we'll like so that they'll continue to do so. Because otherwise, the only rational thing for them to do is to stop. Oh, sure, you can get a few people to work for you for free, because it is their hobby. But even they usually get tired eventually of leaches like you taking advantage of them, and they, too, stop.

Show some respect for people who do work that you like. Pay them.

[JackSkeptic]

I think anything with the word 'Slyme' in it would be good. The reason is, it will show people that we are not evil misogynists and at the same time attract the FtB trolls so we can have fun with them. Those that hate us anyway will not be relevant.

I could do a couple of blogs a day with the stuff I see. As long as it is up to date, interesting and relevant the fun bits will be in the comments sections.

If people want this I can set up a WP network on Thursday and let people have at it.

Like the Pit, though, I prefer not to have advertising or anything like that - extra work to manage.

Like the Pit, though, nobody would represent anyone but themselves.

People could apply what moderation policy they chose, obviously - pre-registration, banning, or wall o' text smackdown.

Who's interested?

I am but maybe see what Renee and the baby nose picker are up to. I have no knowledge or experience so whatever people are happy with I will go for.

[Skep tickle]

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

It's good to hear that you're moving forward. But I think it would be to your benefit to make a public statement about Skeptic Ink's decision to let you go.

Ditto. But only after you've caught up on sleep, and had a chance to write a draft then put it aside for hours if not a day before deciding if it's what you want to post. [/mother hen mode]

[sacha]

Acathode,

Hello, I'm a vegetarian and the thought process leading to me being one is as follows:

Me: Hmm I have been eating meat since a very young age, it tastes nice, but it's a shame about all the death and destruction and terrible use of resources, I will check out the reasons why people eat meat..

Parents/Teachers: Well because it tastes nice..and...tradition.

Me:But what about the terrible waste and death of animals and suffering and such.

Parents/Teachers: Well yea but it tastes nice.... and.... tradition.

Me: OK well then fuck that, I'm not doing it anymore.


It was EXACTLY the same process as when I dropped religion, and occurred at roughly the same time. (more than 20 years ago).

I'm not a hippy and my politics are of the centre (UK). My hair isn't crusty (I wish I had enough fucking hair for it to get crusty).

it's different in the UK. There are more vegetarians per capita in the UK than anywhere else besides India.

I've made the same point. Vegetarian for over 28 years, politics - centre, I don't preach, there is no meat in my home, but I don't expect one not to serve meat if I happen to be invited, as one should not expect meat to be served at my place...

by the way - Dawkins is not vegetarian, but he gets it:

[youtube]ti-WcnqUwLM[/youtube]

[DW Adams]

I'm just offering blog space, no ads or bullshit required. There has never been a single ad on my domain in the almost 5 years I've had it. /shrug

[KiwiInOz]

Ok, so now it seems we've got 3 options on the table for blog hosting:

1) Renee
2) Skeeve
3) Lsuoma

How do we decide which option is best? :/

Cage match to the death. Three go in, one comes out.

My money's on Renee.

[Parody Accountant]

Seriously, go for the NO $$$ policy. That shit is cancer. Lsuoma is right as fuck about that. If you're putting in hard work writing about what you're talking about, it means you give a shit. Not about the money, but about the issue.

Oh, for heaven's sake! I've heard this a billion times -- "You! Write things that I like! But don't ask me to pay for it, or put up ads,'cause I want you to give me everything I want for free! And if you don't, I'll call you names!"

Look, in the real world, people have mortgages. People have food bills. People have heating bills. We pay people who produce things that we'll like so that they'll continue to do so. Because otherwise, the only rational thing for them to do is to stop. Oh, sure, you can get a few people to work for you for free, because it is their hobby. But even they usually get tired eventually of leaches like you taking advantage of them, and they, too, stop.

Show some respect for people who do work that you like. Pay them.

You can take it up with me on your whore blog with your whore dollars.

:)

No seriously though, I don't have a problem with what you said. I'd budge on that issue easily. I just think it's a good quality control measure for those super shameless types.

Be realistic though, outside of the top 5, freethoughtbloggers are getting paid like $50 a month (US). Even then, only the top 2 could theoretically not need another income stream.

You're not talking about capitalism.
You're not talking about getting paid for your work.
You're not talking about leeches.
You are talking about what amounts to a lot of man-hours for what they are already doing (or willing to do).

IMHO:
Ad-driven content delivery with popups and shameless plugging = awful (FTB)
Ad-driven content delivery with a light footprint = good (Reddit)
Donor-supported = best (Wikipedia)

[ERV]

Seriously, go for the NO $$$ policy. That shit is cancer. Lsuoma is right as fuck about that. If you're putting in hard work writing about what you're talking about, it means you give a shit. Not about the money, but about the issue.

Oh, for heaven's sake! I've heard this a billion times -- "You! Write things that I like! But don't ask me to pay for it, or put up ads,'cause I want you to give me everything I want for free! And if you don't, I'll call you names!"

Look, in the real world, people have mortgages. People have food bills. People have heating bills. We pay people who produce things that we'll like so that they'll continue to do so. Because otherwise, the only rational thing for them to do is to stop. Oh, sure, you can get a few people to work for you for free, because it is their hobby. But even they usually get tired eventually of leaches like you taking advantage of them, and they, too, stop.

Show some respect for people who do work that you like. Pay them.

Its a pain in the ass to get paid, at least at SciBlogs (doesnt help that they are always several months behind). My first year I ended up owing a lot in taxes because I didnt understand how I could deduct part of my internet/computer expenses as business costs, and no one ever gets paid enough to where it actually matters re: Mortgages. I got $300 one month. Ever. I normally get $50-75. Its nice to have the cash, but unless you have a PZ level deal/readership (he was raking in a ton), dont depend on hits for income.

[Lsuoma]

Ok, so now it seems we've got 3 options on the table for blog hosting:

1) Renee
2) Skeeve
3) Lsuoma

How do we decide which option is best? :/

Cage match to the death. Three go in, one comes out.

Is that the link to triple anal that the troll posted last weekend?

[Gumby]

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

It's good to hear that you're moving forward. But I think it would be to your benefit to make a public statement about Skeptic Ink's decision to let you go.

Ditto. But only after you've caught up on sleep, and had a chance to write a draft then put it aside for hours if not a day before deciding if it's what you want to post. [/mother hen mode]

Thirded. If you want to put forth your side of things, do so. you don't owe SkepticInk anything, especially if silence benefits them more than it does you. But as Skep tickle says, take your time and say what you really want to say.

[Lsuoma]

Well, it looks as though Skeeve and Renee are ready to go, and the both have a "ee" in their names, so I'll back off.

[Gumby]

P.A.:

cat throwing up.jay peg

:lol:

I did that one in 2 minutes, thought it was 'hella awesome', but then saw the conversation... should have held onto that one. The one time when potentially important shit gets discussed lol.

No biggie. I was just yanking your chain anyway.

[Aneris]

I'd suggest that you three, Lsuoma, Renee and Skeeve talk this over unless you actually want it to go in different directions.

[Parody Accountant]

Well, it looks as though Skeeve and Renee are ready to go, and the both have a "ee" in their names, so I'll back off.

Dude, they have a 2 day head start... back on.

[Tribble]

I think this was the spur I needed. I have a shit ton of space on my server. It's just a matter of installing WP in a network mode and getting things rolling. Checking into that now.

Have no idea what to call it though.

Well, first off, what do you want the focus of the blog network to be?
* Skepticism?
* Atheism?
* Atheism advocacy?
* Gender wars?
* Nothing but dispelling homeopathy all of the time?
* Any dippy idea that floats someone's boat?

And as far as what you call your blog network, I would suggest trying to keep that focus to a degree. For example, Justin V. has done a lot of good work. He let the gender wars consume him, so for time periods a good bulk of his posts were about the gender wars/rift. He let his adversaries define him in much the same way Ophelia fell off the horse and started posting way too much about Rift issues. It then defined who she was, as sad as that is.

Keep in mind Thunderf00t's video on how the woman on Young Turks dealt with trolls. Can you imagine what the Young Turks video network would be like if they devoted 50-80% lambasting how horrible sexist trolls are? It would never be the same thing. I am not proposing to not address issues like that at all. But I would suggest keeping it down to about 5% or less of posts lest it define you and your network becomes a one trick pony of a very boring contentious tedious subject matter that feeds on outrage and emotions.

/2 cents

Thank you for the feedback. I'm copy/pasting everything people send so I can come up with a good setup plan.

Criteria for joining?

[JackRayner]

So Vacula gets kicked out of a blogging network and everyone just forgives and forgets that the failed to get a photograph of the Elevatorgate elevator?!

I can't believe you people... :snooty:

*flounces*

/kidding

[Tribble]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/taslima/201 ... t-teh-menz

Speaking of Justin, Taslima's latest is a wail "what about teh menz" with two comments by Ophelia and Taslima that I believe indicate she is targeting Vacula. (I think Nasreen attended Dublin.)

http://i.imgur.com/TRhRiaL.jpg

She should just give in and embrace the moustache already. And have a sexy, sexy time with it.

Why should she ever submit to Justin's 'stache when she has ample difficulty already dealing with her own?

While Ron Jeremy used to be able to suck his own dick (allegedly) before he got old and fat, she can't ride her own mustache.

[Pitchguest]

I'd be interested in having a blog. I'd even chip in, though you'd forgive me if I don't offer plenty. Money situation is tight at the moment and I'll need a couple of months at least to get it sorted.

And who gets my vote for hosting this hullabaloo, mine's on Lsuoma (no offense, Renee) simply because, well, it's worked out well so far. Besides, if he gets tired of the gig, I'm sure Renee can take over, no probs - I have full confidence in both. Even if Lsuoma's a fascist tit. That avatar. Which reminds me. *unzips*

I'm off for the night. Cheerio. *fap fap fap*

[Tribble]

Something incorporating "pitstop?"

Or you could always go with "cuntkickers."

Oh! Oh! In the cunt kick vein, we could go: "Whole Hoggle into Mansplainin' and Cunt Kicking" Network


lol

[Parody Accountant]

Besides, if he gets tired of the gig, I'm sure Renee can take over, no probs - I have full confidence in both. Even if Lsuoma's a fascist tit. That avatar. Which reminds me. *unzips*

I'm off for the night. Cheerio. *fap fap fap*

I frothed. :obscene-sexualspermblue:

[Pitchguest]

So Vacula gets kicked out of a blogging network and everyone just forgives and forgets that the failed to get a photograph of the Elevatorgate elevator?!

WHAT??!!

[sacha]

Acathode,

Hello, I'm a vegetarian and the thought process leading to me being one is as follows:

Me: Hmm I have been eating meat since a very young age, it tastes nice, but it's a shame about all the death and destruction and terrible use of resources, I will check out the reasons why people eat meat..

Parents/Teachers: Well because it tastes nice..and...tradition.

Me:But what about the terrible waste and death of animals and suffering and such.

Parents/Teachers: Well yea but it tastes nice.... and.... tradition.

Me: OK well then fuck that, I'm not doing it anymore.


It was EXACTLY the same process as when I dropped religion, and occurred at roughly the same time. (more than 20 years ago).

I'm not a hippy and my politics are of the centre (UK). My hair isn't crusty (I wish I had enough fucking hair for it to get crusty).

Ok, and in what way is that relevant? Did you miss the several times I pointed out that I'm talking about a specific subculture of vegetarians/vegans, and that I'm well aware that not all vegetarians/vegans are part of the "smug, environmentalist dicks" thing? If so, again, I got several vegetarian friends and we get along very well.
I don't behave like one of those smug meat-eating dicks who think it's funny trying to trick vegetarians into eating meat etc, and they don't behave like those smug vegetarian dicks who repeatedly points out that "you do know that's a dead animal you're eating, right?" (yes I do, I grew up on a farm and helped butchering animals when I was just 5). The result is that we get along just fine, and if I ever cook them food, I make sure to have a vegetarian alternative, and if I eat their food, I'm happy to try out something new that I usually don't eat.

Well it was just a bit of personal experience and it may have been mildly interesting to a few folks, one other person has replied with their own bit of personal experience which i found interesting. Some posts are like that, I wasn't trying to write an academic paper, and I didn't really mean to point an accusing finger at you.

Thanks for taking it personally though and being defensive. I think I have had my first bitch slap in the pit! (yay) , and I haven't even got round to finding an avatar yet. It makes up for the fact that only one person bothered to tell me to fuck off when I joined.

I have a warm feeling now (although it's entirely possible I just pissed myself of course!).

fuck off, Jimmy

and after 20 years you should know "taking it personally" and "being defensive" are almost always part of the conversation when it comes to vegetarian/carnivore discussions.

[sacha]

Jebus H. Fucking Cripes! Go have a life for a few days and the pit explodes! Really. 20 pages!!!!

OK, flexes scroll wheel finger, and...

OB bitches about flight

RW misses flight

PZ misses RW

Aimless, pointless (but funny) related comments and speculation relating to above

JV doesn't fuck up

wonderist cuts loose (I actually like the guy, but yeah walls of text) I suggest we get Wonderist and Steersman to gang up on the next FtB thread somewhere.

wonderist cuts loose,wonderist cuts loose,wonderist cuts loose,wonderist cuts loose (Jeez!)

Soaks scroll finger in ice water

Nothing happens at AI Women's conference

JV continues not to fuck up

A troll visits the Pyt. Says stoopid troll stuff.

Lsuoma bans troll.

Troll introduces sock.

Lsuoma stomps sock like a bug.

Weird A+ style troll joins Pyt, attacks JV.

Pyt members circle around JV, shoot back at A+ troll. A+ troll throws out 'triggering ' flag for free pass.

Pyt collapses in anguish.

A new Pyt member points out inconsistency/fallacies in A+ trolls triggering claim.

Pyt is restored to normal.

JV continues not to fuck up.

Weekend ends, earth continues to orbit, sun rises, etc., etc.

OK. Got it. Carry on!

OH - and HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE PYT, you lovable bunch of cunts! :dance:

bravo!

[sacha]

Well it was just a bit of personal experience and it may have been mildly interesting to a few folks, one other person has replied with their own bit of personal experience which i found interesting. Some posts are like that, I wasn't trying to write an academic paper, and I didn't really mean to point an accusing finger at you.

Thanks for taking it personally though and being defensive. I think I have had my first bitch slap in the pit! (yay) , and I haven't even got round to finding an avatar yet. It makes up for the fact that only one person bothered to tell me to fuck off when I joined.

I have a warm feeling now (although it's entirely possible I just pissed myself of course!).

Ok, fair enough! I'm sorry for overreacting, I tried making my best to make it clear that I wasn't talking about all vegetarians etc, and when I read your post I just went "Oh FFS!" since I thought it was pretty much the thing I was bending over backwards to not get. Again, I'm sorry.

Oh, and welcome to the pit... and fuck off! ;)

well done.

[BarnOwl]

it's different in the UK. There are more vegetarians per capita in the UK than anywhere else besides India.

I've made the same point. Vegetarian for over 28 years, politics - centre, I don't preach, there is no meat in my home, but I don't expect one not to serve meat if I happen to be invited, as one should not expect meat to be served at my place...

by the way - Dawkins is not vegetarian, but he gets it:

[youtube]ti-WcnqUwLM[/youtube]

I tend to maintain an optimal weight, overall good health, and excellent energy levels on a vegan diet. Sucks to be me, right? It's a freak accident of genetics and metabolomics. Right now I'm "Vegan Before 6:00" and approximately 2/3 of my daily calories are vegan. I've maintained a completely vegan diet for a year before, with no ill effects whatsoever. But I like to eat meat once in awhile, and I really like dairy. Dairy fattens me up, unfortunately. Dammit. And as a middle-aged runner now, the less I weigh, the better. I can easily justify a vegan diet for both health and environmental reasons.

Attempting to make vegetarian okonomiyaki, Osaka-style, for dinner tonight. It might be a complete disaster. On the other hand, this Bulldog Tonkatsu sauce is da bomb and can make most things taste good.

[Tribble]

Fascist Tit.com

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3579/bqb9.png

Now that's kind of funny...

[karlaporter]

Just stopping by to say... I unfortunately do not have time to back track and read many posts I would like to and that I know are likely about today and JV's trip off the island. Celebrate his new beginnings, lessons learned, and hopes and reams yet to be realized....... all with some of your very creative shoops. I can't wait to see them. XO

[AndrewV69]

Not exactly sure what I read at the Traditional Christianity blog, but the link posted there was....enlightening. I've heard it talked about, even been accused of being the type, but I'd never directly read any hardcore traditionalist "manosphere"[for a great lack of a better word] stuff.

Well the ones I regularly read overlap with various aspects of the "manosphere" and some sort of traditional Christianity. Alte and Sunshine Mary who you just read are examples. So is Laura Grace Robinson who quite often focuses on "game" from a Christian perspective as a tool for mate selection for women within the church leading to marriage. For the male side see Dalrock.

So those are the people wanting to reverse the clock and get the women back in the kitchen?...

It could seem so. A lot of them are women too.

I do not get the impression that they think all women should go back to being barefoot, preggers, and in the kitchen when not otherwise available for sexy fun times (Alte, apparently has a strong enough sex drive to want it twice a day), but I am under the distinct impression that they feel nothing but pity for women who have been brainwashed into rejecting that "traditional" lifestyle (excluding the minority of women who would genuinely be unhappy being a homemaker).

I am not sure what to call this myself though. Alt TradCon Christianity?

BTW. Someone mentioned earlier something about the Christian version of BDSM (forget what it is called, something to do with spanking), well I am wondering if you could view this as the Christian version of sex and submission?

[Zenspace]

Re SIN:

Well bowl* me over.

That sure came out of left field*.

Indeed. John and company are getting testy about the pushback, too. I would really like to hear Justin's side if he is able - privately if need be.

It seemed to come just as Justin was starting to show some signs of maturing in his activism and engagement in the community, which doubly sucks. I was a fan of SIN, but I'm pissed at the way they mishandled this. Having a legitimate parting of the ways is fine, but they would be hard pressed to handle it in a worse fashion.

[ReneeHendricks]

Just stopping by to say... I unfortunately do not have time to back track and read many posts I would like to and that I know are likely about today and JV's trip off the island. Celebrate his new beginnings, lessons learned, and hopes and reams yet to be realized....... all with some of your very creative shoops. I can't wait to see them. XO

Ok, I have to say it... "hopes and reams yet to be realized"? Oh, Karla!

[karlaporter]

Just stopping by to say... I unfortunately do not have time to back track and read many posts I would like to and that I know are likely about today and JV's trip off the island. Celebrate his new beginnings, lessons learned, and hopes and reams yet to be realized....... all with some of your very creative shoops. I can't wait to see them. XO

Ok, I have to say it... "hopes and reams yet to be realized"? Oh, Karla!

LOL touché Renee!

[welch]

I'm always right. Just ask me and I'll tell you. On and on and on.

yes dear. Whatever you say.

[Tribble]

Acathode,

Hello, I'm a vegetarian and the thought process leading to me being one is as follows:

Me: Hmm I have been eating meat since a very young age, it tastes nice, but it's a shame about all the death and destruction and terrible use of resources, I will check out the reasons why people eat meat..

Parents/Teachers: Well because it tastes nice..and...tradition.

Me:But what about the terrible waste and death of animals and suffering and such.

Parents/Teachers: Well yea but it tastes nice.... and.... tradition.

Me: OK well then fuck that, I'm not doing it anymore.


It was EXACTLY the same process as when I dropped religion, and occurred at roughly the same time. (more than 20 years ago).

I'm not a hippy and my politics are of the centre (UK). My hair isn't crusty (I wish I had enough fucking hair for it to get crusty).

it's different in the UK. There are more vegetarians per capita in the UK than anywhere else besides India.

I've made the same point. Vegetarian for over 28 years, politics - centre, I don't preach, there is no meat in my home, but I don't expect one not to serve meat if I happen to be invited, as one should not expect meat to be served at my place...

by the way - Dawkins is not vegetarian, but he gets it:

When we have vegetarians over for dinner, cook a vegetarian meal. So, if we came over, we'd probably expect:

[youtube]63NNuG-6-hQ[/youtube]

j/k

Seriously, though, we do cook for vegetarians, but we do that because, at least once a week, we have nominally vegetarian dinner. For example, Sunday I made a giant early-summer vegetable lasagna. So, obviously, it's no skin off our nose as it's part of our lifestyle as 'meat reductionists.' (We eat a lot more fresh vegetables and fresh fruit in our diet than most Americans and far less meat. But we don't eschew meat.)

[surreptitious57]

Irish Parliament passes a law approving of limited abortion : That is not some thing I expected
to hear in my life time : Nothing can now prevent a hospital from saving the life of any woman
whose life is in danger from a pregnancy : And so congratulations to everyone that voted for it
And not a single female member of Parliament voted against : So this is a true landmark ruling

[Aneris]

Regarding Vacula and SkepticInk: It wasn't a good idea to be kneejerk defensive over there, as it prompts issues that are otherwise (maybe) not even on the table. They may have good or bad reasons (dunno, only have a hunch*). I found it very dubious how they did it. They could as well asked of Justin to "move on" and allow him to leave without making an issue (at all). A joint statement by them and Justin would be the traditional "we're parting ways due to creative differences" diplomatic talk. They decided on the "worst" of the options, made even worse due to Justins absense.

*(1) Justin seems, ironically, more in line with FTB than with them, gender issues and all (keep Ally Fogg in mind, too). (2) Justin has some other irons in the fire and perhaps they want that bloggers treat their network with some priority. Justin is more known for his hero-thingy, for example. (3) this is all pure speculation based on general impression.

[welch]

Re SIN:

Well bowl* me over.

That sure came out of left field*.







*No disrespect intended toward any player of any sport that might be suggested by my remarks.

I dunno. I took a look through the entire site and they are promoting the SHIT out of TAM. Like *heavily*. Wonder if they decided that Justin is a liability if they're trying to get more recognition for the site. The way they handled it is still pure shit however. That's just inexcusable.

[welch]

Seriously, go for the NO $$$ policy. That shit is cancer. Lsuoma is right as fuck about that. If you're putting in hard work writing about what you're talking about, it means you give a shit. Not about the money, but about the issue.

Oh, for heaven's sake! I've heard this a billion times -- "You! Write things that I like! But don't ask me to pay for it, or put up ads,'cause I want you to give me everything I want for free! And if you don't, I'll call you names!"

Look, in the real world, people have mortgages. People have food bills. People have heating bills. We pay people who produce things that we'll like so that they'll continue to do so. Because otherwise, the only rational thing for them to do is to stop. Oh, sure, you can get a few people to work for you for free, because it is their hobby. But even they usually get tired eventually of leaches like you taking advantage of them, and they, too, stop.

Show some respect for people who do work that you like. Pay them.

I assume whomever is going to run this knows what they're doing. I have some experience in getting dosh for content, but, it is not a small amount of work, and if people are paying for things, in the sense of sponsors, not ads, then you do need to consider things like chinese walls, etc.

[welch]

Thanks and thanks to everyone for the support. I plan to take the positive steps forward - focusing on positives including my activism [notice I stayed away from drama at EWTS2013]. For now, I have to sleep! I have lots of stuff to write about -- including a huge update on the council prayer situation and EWTS2013 -- but this will wait. I need rest.

I am happy many were satisfied with my Dublin experience. The positive reaction here is very appreciated.

Thanks again.

It's good to hear that you're moving forward. But I think it would be to your benefit to make a public statement about Skeptic Ink's decision to let you go.

Ditto. But only after you've caught up on sleep, and had a chance to write a draft then put it aside for hours if not a day before deciding if it's what you want to post. [/mother hen mode]

*EXCELLENT* point.

[Cunning Punt]

Does anyone else despise the majority of people on the anti-atheism+ FB group? For the most part they're about as dogmatic and idiotic as the FC(n) and FtB crowd.

Yep. There's a lot of dummies there.

[Garlic]

Just stopping by to say... I unfortunately do not have time to back track and read many posts I would like to and that I know are likely about today and JV's trip off the island. Celebrate his new beginnings, lessons learned, and hopes and reams yet to be realized....... all with some of your very creative shoops. I can't wait to see them. XO

Ok, I have to say it... "hopes and reams yet to be realized"? Oh, Karla!

LOL touché Renee!

I guess that's what they call a Freudian slip.

(As in, "Slip it in Sigmund!")

[welch]

She should just give in and embrace the moustache already. And have a sexy, sexy time with it.

Why should she ever submit to Justin's 'stache when she has ample difficulty already dealing with her own?

While Ron Jeremy used to be able to suck his own dick (allegedly) before he got old and fat, she can't ride her own mustache.

Oh there's no "allegedly" about it. http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?v ... 144d5aaac0 (THIS LINK IS NOT SAFE FOR WORK. IT'S PROBABLY NOT SAFE FOR ANYTHING ELSE. IT IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.) and yes, i watched enough of it to not see kiddie porn or anything that should get lsuoma in trouble just for the link. But if you don't want to see ron jeremy blowing himself, don't fucking click on it.

[ReneeHendricks]

What do you guys think of reasonweb.net?

[Tribble]

Does anyone else despise the majority of people on the anti-atheism+ FB group? For the most part they're about as dogmatic and idiotic as the FC(n) and FtB crowd.

Yep. There's a lot of dummies there.

I avoid twitter like the plague and keep Facebook to a friends/relatives only minimum (and most of them are blocked from my feed).

[Wonderist]

Tigger warning: Long, probably boring

Topics:
* Pragmatism
* My goals in posting
* Boringness
* Win/win vs. win/lose
* Communication/audience

Oh, For Fuck's Sake!

You clearly have a different definition of "it works" than I do.

Perhaps. Here's mine: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18962

20+ paragraphs to explain what two words mean? Really? This appears more like an excuse to link to something you consider one of your "greatest hits" so to speak than a germane explanation to the subject at hand.

You're right I post that regularly whenever the topic of pragmatism comes up. Why? Because it's pretty comprehensive. I don't know you very well and don't know 'where you're at', so to speak. So why do you think it's strange I would post an introductory article explaining where *I'm* at, rather than re-writing basically the same thing I've already written about dozens and dozens of times? That's how that article came together, by the way, from having to cover the same topics over and over again. Much easier to write it once and post a link. Is this unusual? I don't think so.

Here is mine: "That which achieves its goal." Which perhaps just pushes it back one layer.

Exactly. Which I cover in that post. Did you actually read it? It's long but it's more concise than most of my writing, because I spent a good deal of time editing it before posting it. There's more than just a single point in there.

What is your goal in posting? Its often not clear, hence my comments below.

As I've been re-iterating for welch, to demonstrate a technique which I've found helps me to defeat drama *without* contributing to the escalation of drama myself.

But for the moment, lets look at the context in which "it works" came up:

And yes, these pointless banterings are painful, I agree. If it weren't necessary in my view, I wouldn't do them. Apologies for the 'splash damage' pain. They are definitely boring, I will readily admit. Only one reason I keep doing it: It works.

Note the bolded bit, and remember the subject of the conversation was your attempts at humor. As far as humor goes, if its boring, its not working.

Perhaps you got the impression that the conversation was about my 'attempts' at humour. You might want to go back and locate *where specifically* that was ever proposed or agreed by me as being the topic of the conversation. You won't find it, I don't think, but if you do, quote it so I can catch what you're referring to.

Thus, either you have inadvertently demonstrated my original point, that you dont get humor,

My references to 'boring' are not in reference to any incidental humour, or lack thereof. They are in reference to the overall process of how I respond to drama and flames: I post very boringly. Sometimes I might put some bits of humour in, but they will not be the kinds of humour that tend to *increase* drama. In the particular case of the video of 'to the pain', I consider it more of a prediction than an attempt at humour. But it comes from a comedy movie, so sure it had some 'attempt' at humour inherent in the script.

But note what actually *occurs* in the scene: Wesley appears to be helpless and the Count steps in, ready for a sword fight. "To the death!" And Wesley stops him in his tracks, "No! To the pain."

And then he calmly explains what 'to the pain' means. The Count tries to move things along, get to the 'drama', escalate the conflict. But Wesley keeps elaborating, throwing the Count off guard and confusing him. Until finally, Wesley shows he's not weak after all, stands up, and confronts the Count, "Drop. Your. Sword."

The Count drops his sword (his aggressive stance) and gives up. No violent conflict (or destructive drama) required.

Just like this technique.

It's not a perfect analogy, as I don't even have a 'sword', just words, but close enough that I thought it would be fun (for myself at least) to use it. And it matched with the whole 'bore me to death' comment which I was replying to. It wasn't an 'attempt at humour' in the way you seem to be expecting, though. Sure, you might think of it as an 'inside joke' (to myself I guess), but not one I would have expected anyone else to 'get', because it wasn't yet clear to most people how I was going to handle the situation. The closest analogy to an 'attempt at humour' would probably be as a cultural pun or simply a famous play on words from a comedy. And also, I really wanted to say, "Bore you to the pain." Why not? People were complaining about how my posts were boring and painful. It just fit perfectly into the situation.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. You're looking at it like a typical Pit flame war, where It's snark after snark after snark. But I'm not playing that game. I'm not playing the snark card. You expected an 'attempt at humour', but that's not what I was going for. Instead of snark cards, I'm playing boring cards. I don't want to *escalate* the snark, I want to suffocate it, with boredom. As I said earlier, the opposite of drama is boredom. That Young Ones clip actually was actually a quite clever post, in that respect.

I've been doing this a long time (since before ElevatorGate). I know already how it's going to end. It's just a matter of time. Now it's *possible* welch will come up with something I've never expected and throw me completely off. Sure. Possible. I just really don't think it will happen. I'm trusting my past experience (especially at interacting with franc/felch, who, I must admit, handled things far better than welch is handling them).

It's not about 'winning', though welch wants to make it out that way. I don't say I 'defeated' franc, I say I interacted with him, and that I could take anything he could dish at me. That's *not* the same as a false win/lose dichotomy.

Ironically, while welch goes on and on about win/lose, the whole point of interacting this way is to *eventually* get to either reasonable dialogue or a peaceful parting of ways. And reasonable dialogue would be the win/win, non-zero sum scenario, not a win/lose zero-sum scenario. See:
Win-win game
Non-zero sum
Zero-sum fallacy

or your goal in posting those attempts at humor was something other than to amuse.

It amused me. But you're right, I did have other purposes.

If the latter, I dare say no one other than yourself has a clue what your purpose is.

I'm sure at least a few people here know fairly well what I'm going on about. If you're not aware, I've been using this technique in the pit for a while now, whenever flames start flying at me. Indeed, I've previously interacted with welch in the pit in much the same manner. But also, I've been using this technique against FTBers in various blogs as well, and many pit members are familiar with me that way. For example, in Nugent's blogs before the dialogue process started.

I haven't been able to explain it as well as this most recent kerfuffle, though. I've tried a few times, earlier. If you'd like links to some of my past attempts, I could dig them up. But mostly I tried to focus on *demonstrating* the technique simply by using it whenever the situation called for it.

(cont'd)

[Tribble]

Why should she ever submit to Justin's 'stache when she has ample difficulty already dealing with her own?

While Ron Jeremy used to be able to suck his own dick (allegedly) before he got old and fat, she can't ride her own mustache.

Oh there's no "allegedly" about it. http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?v ... 144d5aaac0 (THIS LINK IS NOT SAFE FOR WORK. IT'S PROBABLY NOT SAFE FOR ANYTHING ELSE. IT IS ACTUALLY WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.) and yes, i watched enough of it to not see kiddie porn or anything that should get lsuoma in trouble just for the link. But if you don't want to see ron jeremy blowing himself, don't fucking click on it.

I'll stick with alleged... :)

[Wonderist]

(cont'd)
Tigger warning: Still long, probably still boring

Topics:
* Communication/understanding
* Appearances/popularity vs. interested audience
* Defeating drama/flames/snark
* Evidence/examples (e.g. julian)
* Claus Larsen example

Can you give an example of something I wrote which you didn't understand? Would very much appreciate it, and I'll try to clarify (hopefully as briefly as possible).

Err, I didnt say I didnt understand something you wrote. I said that your purpose in writing appears to be something other than communication. You appear to not care if anyone else understands you.

But if you understand me, then what's the problem? And if you don't understand me, then I'm asking you to point it out. Isn't that caring whether you understand or not?

If that's not what you mean, then what do you mean? Can you provide an example of something I've written that's problematic that way?

I am trying to help you understand how you appear to others, and why your posts piss lots of people off. You even said as much yourself when Lsouma recently pointed out the increasing numbers of people who have you on ignore, and you replied that you didnt care.

Ah! Okay, that makes some sense. That comment was unclear probably, yes. Lsuoma told me to get the stick out of the stick out of my ass, and then proceeded to tell me that 'BTW, ignores have tripled in a short period of time'. I replied 'BTW I don't really care about that,' or something close. It struck me that Lsuoma thought I was motivated by how many people are reading my posts vs. not. But I don't really care about that. If someone's annoyed by my posts, of course they should ignore me, if it gets to them that much. That's a great mechanism to keep the site flowing smoothly.

I'm not looking to be popular with everyone. There are *always* going to be people who don't like what you say, or how you say it, or they just get rubbed the wrong way by something about you. I have no control over that. But I also don't run my life according to my popularity. If somehow I were charismatic or something and was generally a 'popular' person, I guarantee I wouldn't be on the Slymepit. I hear it's not very popular. :P The whole popularity thing is a figment of welch's imagination.

I'm not looking to communicate with people who find what I have to say mostly boring or mostly annoying. I'm looking to communicate with people who are interested in the topics I'm trying to discuss. If someone in the Pit were interested in techniques to reduce/defeat drama, and I'm sure there are probably at least a few, then hey, as long as *they* don't put me on ignore, I'm good. Hopefully it's more than just a few, but I don't really know, TBH.

But I get the feeling that the people who put me on ignore aren't generally interested in those topics, or at least not in what I have to say on those topics. Fine by me. To each their own. For those who are actually interested, that's who I'm communicating with. And maybe, hopefully, some on-the-fence folks too, who knows?

I dont think anyone who holds the notion that snarky retorts is always or almost always an effective rhetorical tactic.

I know at least one person, and his username starts with a w; he even wrote a whole blog post about it, which I critiqued. And actually, another one also whose username starts with f.

Most people make snarky retorts because it is amusing and entertaining. So you seem to be challenging a non-existent notion.

I use snark too for amusement as you say. Only problem is that sometimes it carries a risk of escalating conflicts. That's when I stop using it. That's the technique. There are some people who advocate its use heavily against opponents like FTBers/Skepchicks/et al. Check out the blog I'm referring to and the critique I posted. It's an existent notion.

Further, who are you challeinging it to? ie, Who is your audience? By "turning up the boredom" you succeed, if its a success, in causing not only your interlocutor to tune out, but much of the other listeners as well. If your very tactic is causing your audience to tune out, then its not a particularly effective tactic.

What will prove whether it's an effective tactic or not is if it *succeeds* in defeating drama. So far, it's got a pretty damn good track record, in my experience. I'm just demonstrating it once again. Anyone interested in it is my audience.

The end result certainly makes it appear that you post to prove a point in your own eyes, since they are one of the few still watching by the time you complete this exercise, not those of the audience who is by now furiously exercising their scroll wheel.

I am proving a point, yes. Proving that it defeats drama *without* adding to or escalating the drama. Whether I'm the only one who can see that, I don't know. I think many others can see it as well, even if they might still have some reservations and might need further demonstrations (hopefully more in the FTB sphere than here). Over time, as I go about my usual surfing, I'll keep generating those demonstrations. When I get some particularly good ones, I tend to link to them. Here's one where I managed to pin 'julian' down enough to admit through silence that he had no evidence to back up his smears. Starts here: http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... -772949591

He is very slippery and always tries to deflect comments/questions back onto you with random accusations. I did the same thing I'm doing, not returning his snipes, but still challenging him repeatedly. Not feeding the drama, but starving it. Culminates with resounding silence, followed up with this:

Aaaaannnnnddd....

Nothing!

Just as I suspected, based on your previous smearing, julian. You have *nothing* to support your random, paranoid claims about people you don't even know and haven't got the faintest clue about.

Thank you for making that perfectly clear to everyone reading this. You were very cooperative, in not answering any of my reasonable questions. Cheers!

Also appearing in that thread is EllenBeth Wachs, and I also interacted with her. It's quite a good thread all around. Several pitters were involved, including welch as it happens.

So, yes, I'm trying to prove a point. But not that 'I won', as welch claims to think. The point is rather, 'it works'.

Here, just to show it's about the technique, and that 'it works' is the point, I'll give an example of someone I noticed just the other day, Claus Larsen, using almost exactly the same technique. See how he handles flames from Zvan. And look how he comes off looking vs. his opponents. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2013 ... -943814650

Here's an example, from early on in that portion of the thread:

Fuck off, Claus.

Stephanie,

Is that going to be your signature response to anyone you think is wrong, for whatever reason?

Bear in mind, you are telling me to "fuck off", even though I have not expressed any opinion similar to Steve Snyder/SocraticGadfly's.

All I did was point out the discrepancy between your goal - stopping bad behavior - and your action - engaging in bad behavior.

That garners the same response as those you see as "putrid, obsessive, pointless, sexist smear of slime": You tell them to "fuck off".

You will have an increasingly hard time convincing people to stop engaging in bad behavior, when you so eagerly stoop to doing so yourself.

(cont'd)

[Zenspace]

Regarding Vacula and SkepticInk: It wasn't a good idea to be kneejerk defensive over there, as it prompts issues that are otherwise (maybe) not even on the table. They may have good or bad reasons (dunno, only have a hunch*). I found it very dubious how they did it. They could as well asked of Justin to "move on" and allow him to leave without making an issue (at all). A joint statement by them and Justin would be the traditional "we're parting ways due to creative differences" diplomatic talk. They decided on the "worst" of the options, made even worse due to Justins absense.

*(1) Justin seems, ironically, more in line with FTB than with them, gender issues and all (keep Ally Fogg in mind, too). (2) Justin has some other irons in the fire and perhaps they want that bloggers treat their network with some priority. Justin is more known for his hero-thingy, for example. (3) this is all pure speculation based on general impression.

Agreed. I was fairly aggressive in my posts on the topic (for me, anyway) at SIN, but intentionally kept the door open regarding potential reasons. There may well be good ones, but the way they did it sucked ass, which they certainly realize at this point. Secrecy and closed doors never help your case.

[Mykeru]

and after 20 years you should know "taking it personally" and "being defensive" are almost always part of the conversation when it comes to vegetarian/carnivore discussions.

[youtube]sEDw9xgSmSc[/youtube]