Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

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VAXherd
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6841

Post by VAXherd »

VAXherd wrote:Why are they "disinterested"? Or, more specifically, more disinterested than men?
After all that interesting discussion, I'll add just a few points:

Biological tendencies will be mostly very general, because almost any specific human behavior is learned. Risk-averse vs risk-seeking is a good example. Any base tendency a person is born with will be affected by their life experiences.

Social structure also confounds the issues. Women may be absent from the extremes of both success and failure due to risk-aversion, but there may also be matching social structures. Extreme professional success usually requires severe neglect of one's family, and extreme personal failure requires social disposability.

There is one other thing which is terribly important, but hard to convey. I'm not even sure most scientists grasp it: Nature is about distributions, not averages or even ranges. For even a strong man/woman difference you will have many women who are more "manly" that most men, and men who are more "womanly" than most women. This makes it very hard to approach anecdotally, because counterexamples are always to hand.

VAXherd
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6842

Post by VAXherd »

AndrewV69 wrote:In other news, I scored 30 and so apparently I fail as an Aspie. For those interested, Take The AQ Test:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
Psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen and his colleagues at Cambridge's Autism Research Centre have created the Autism-Spectrum Quotient, or AQ, as a measure of the extent of autistic traits in adults. In the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's report no difficulty functioning in their everyday lives.
I scored 34.

The test looks fine to me for what it is, a quick and easy self assessment of one's general position. It needn't be sneaky because it's not for clinical use, or intended to "catch" people trying to hide something. Since it's a self-report instrument it's limited to things people can notice about themselves, and being univariate (for simplicity) it's necessarily low resolution.

On a side issue, it's a mistake to insist that all aspects of a psychopathology be negative. I'm given to understand that some musicians even like having Tourette's syndrome. Well, drummers anyway.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6843

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

VAXherd wrote:
On a side issue, it's a mistake to insist that all aspects of a psychopathology be negative. I'm given to understand that some musicians even like having Tourette's syndrome. Well, drummers anyway.
I have to object! First you said "musicians", then you said "drummers"! One thing is not like the other.

:lol:

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6844

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Justin V asked me to post this here. Since I'm a nice guy, I will oblige:

[trigger warning: The Mustache From Hell!]

http://justinvacula.com/2013/07/23/july ... -meetings/

VAXherd
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6845

Post by VAXherd »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VAXherd wrote:
On a side issue, it's a mistake to insist that all aspects of a psychopathology be negative. I'm given to understand that some musicians even like having Tourette's syndrome. Well, drummers anyway.
I have to object! First you said "musicians", then you said "drummers"! One thing is not like the other.

:lol:
It could have been worse. I was originally going to say "some artists".

bovarchist
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6846

Post by bovarchist »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
VAXherd wrote:
On a side issue, it's a mistake to insist that all aspects of a psychopathology be negative. I'm given to understand that some musicians even like having Tourette's syndrome. Well, drummers anyway.
I have to object! First you said "musicians", then you said "drummers"! One thing is not like the other.

:lol:
Forsooth! Next you will be saying rappers aren't singers!

Guest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6847

Post by Guest »

Southern wrote:
But... but... Social Justice! Women's right! All power to the People! The French Revolution! Guillotine those bastards!

Seriously, thought, the media do make a big fuss about a fucking childbirth, but that's hardly on Daddy, Mommy and Little Monster's fault. Apparently the British royalty is worth something to a lot of people over the world, or whatever. It's too cold down there to get worried about Kate Middlefield or Harry Truman or whatever.
The media have made way too much of a circus of a whole thing but as you say, that's not their (the Cambridge's) fault. The media do it about absolutely everything these days.

If it's uninteresting to PZ, which is completely normal given that it concerns a country he doesn't live in, then he could just ignore it.

The hypocrisy of saying "boo, starving children, wah" when he has himself bred is just par for the course for Peezus.

brightonrock
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6848

Post by brightonrock »

That was me. Forgot to click 'log me on automatically'.

KiwiInOz
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6849

Post by KiwiInOz »

brightonrock wrote:That was me. Forgot to click 'log me on automatically'.
We're sorry. The Slymepit is currently unattended. Please feel free to tell yourself to fuck off. We look forward to your continued contributions.

Dave
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6850

Post by Dave »

Guest (brightonrock) wrote:
Southern wrote: Seriously, thought, the media do make a big fuss about a fucking childbirth, but that's hardly on Daddy, Mommy and Little Monster's fault. Apparently the British royalty is worth something to a lot of people over the world, or whatever. It's too cold down there to get worried about Kate Middlefield or Harry Truman or whatever.
The media have made way too much of a circus of a whole thing but as you say, that's not their (the Cambridge's) fault. The media do it about absolutely everything these days.
Dunno that we can just blame the media, they have been making a circus out of all things Royal for as long as I can remember. That kind of longevity suggests that there is genuine interest. Dont quite understand it, but I can change the channel easily enough.

Now, SWMBO is another story -- she wanted to know what I thought the baby should be named. Judging by other celebrities naming practices, I suggested, "North Pineapple." Apparently, it has to be a traditional English King's name, so I went with "AEthelred" or "Offa." Im concerned that one of us did not take that conversation sufficiently seriously.

bovarchist
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6851

Post by bovarchist »

Dave wrote:
Dunno that we can just blame the media, they have been making a circus out of all things Royal for as long as I can remember. That kind of longevity suggests that there is genuine interest. Dont quite understand it, but I can change the channel easily enough.

Now, SWMBO is another story -- she wanted to know what I thought the baby should be named. Judging by other celebrities naming practices, I suggested, "North Pineapple." Apparently, it has to be a traditional English King's name, so I went with "AEthelred" or "Offa." Im concerned that one of us did not take that conversation sufficiently seriously.
I humbly suggest Prince Lando.

LurkerPerson

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6852

Post by LurkerPerson »

Dave wrote:
Guest (brightonrock) wrote:
Southern wrote: Seriously, thought, the media do make a big fuss about a fucking childbirth, but that's hardly on Daddy, Mommy and Little Monster's fault. Apparently the British royalty is worth something to a lot of people over the world, or whatever. It's too cold down there to get worried about Kate Middlefield or Harry Truman or whatever.
The media have made way too much of a circus of a whole thing but as you say, that's not their (the Cambridge's) fault. The media do it about absolutely everything these days.
Dunno that we can just blame the media, they have been making a circus out of all things Royal for as long as I can remember. That kind of longevity suggests that there is genuine interest. Dont quite understand it, but I can change the channel easily enough.

Now, SWMBO is another story -- she wanted to know what I thought the baby should be named. Judging by other celebrities naming practices, I suggested, "North Pineapple." Apparently, it has to be a traditional English King's name, so I went with "AEthelred" or "Offa." Im concerned that one of us did not take that conversation sufficiently seriously.
The fascination with royals in Europe, the articles about them in "trendy" magazines and the media, obsession with what they wear, what they eat, what they do, what their life is like, is almost entirely from women. The clearest example was the whole Princess Diana episode where they could project themselves onto her because it was a "commoner" who married into a "noble" family. Obviously it's because of teh Patriarchy inplant of pretty princesses with pink dresses when they are young, because no woman anywhere has power fantasies of belonging to a superior and worshipped elite, like those greedy males. It's pretty similar with the new "nobility", aka actors, singers and other media figures. I have yet to meet a guy who enjoys reading TMZ and other gossip rags, though I'm sure there's some as well.

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6853

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

Guest wrote:
Southern wrote:
But... but... Social Justice! Women's right! All power to the People! The French Revolution! Guillotine those bastards!

Seriously, thought, the media do make a big fuss about a fucking childbirth, but that's hardly on Daddy, Mommy and Little Monster's fault. Apparently the British royalty is worth something to a lot of people over the world, or whatever. It's too cold down there to get worried about Kate Middlefield or Harry Truman or whatever.
The media have made way too much of a circus of a whole thing but as you say, that's not their (the Cambridge's) fault. The media do it about absolutely everything these days.

If it's uninteresting to PZ, which is completely normal given that it concerns a country he doesn't live in, then he could just ignore it.

The hypocrisy of saying "boo, starving children, wah" when he has himself bred is just par for the course for Peezus.
As part Pom, I just look at it all as marketing. Royalty serve a very useful function in greasing the wheels of trade and will do so as long as their are enough influential people in this world who go all gooey over the thought of rubbling shoulders with royalty. It only works as long as the hype is maintained. Royalty have something that temporarily appointed heads of state don't, the authority of being born to the post, tradition and history. Sure, it offends my egalitarian sensibilities a bit, but then I know very well that apart from some of the parasitic royal hangers on most Poms understand very well that the royals are playing a role in service of the country and that they will be gone if they stop playing it.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6854

Post by Wonderist »

another lurker wrote:
Gumby wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:Gee Whillikers! Welch has turned into Steerserist...
I prefer the term "Wondersteer" myself...

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 15f9e7.jpg

... but use the Latin when I'm feeling particularly pseudointellectual.

So I see the Pit is still ZNN (Zimmerman News Network)...

...back to lurker mode...
Gumby, I really like the photosoph!

Well done!
:lol: Hehe, missed this one while I was on my break. Good one, Gumby! Hilarious, and nice touch with the species name! :D One of the cows should be laughing; very cheesy!

JackSkeptic
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Re: Breaking Royal News!

#6855

Post by JackSkeptic »

free thoughtpolice wrote:Is it just me, or does the younger of the two princes look nothing like the rest of the royal family?
It's been noted before. But there has also been silence on the matter for many years now.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6856

Post by DW Adams »

He does favor his uncle somewhat, though.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6857

Post by Wonderist »

Useless Lurker, another reply to you (and anyone else interested ;) ): viewtopic.php?p=111470#p111470

Topics:
* Lurkers, the wider audience
* The purpose/drawbacks of adding extra caveats in hostile environments
* Firewalling and peace-making, related but not the same
* Metaphor to help explain/communicate ideas
* Advocating an unpopular idea and dealing with 'ignores'

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6858

Post by Wonderist »

Hunt wrote:I just learned that Eliezer Yudkowsky is involved in FTBConscience. Isn't the Less Wrong ethos a little cross-ideology with FtB? Yudkowsky is solidly transhumanist, which FtB would undoubtedly consider woo, and Less Wrong showcases quite a bit of libertarian theory. Yudkowsky seems to be a bit too "free" a thinker for FtB.
Any follow-up to this? Been offline a bit, so sorry if I missed it. If FTB et al are courting Yudkowsky, they have no clue what they're doing. (Not that they have any clue anyway, it just underscores the point.) Seems apt to repeat this again: The biggest mistake radical feminism made was in attempting to infiltrate the skeptic movement. The last thing they want is the attention of actual skeptics.

Guest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6859

Post by Guest »

welch wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:It's good to see PZ Meyers's commenters have moved on since the drk days of "go die in a fire". To the news that the British royals have had a baby:

http://i.imgur.com/mLNBQye.png

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... /#comments
But bagging on the royals is what all the cool kids do.
who would bag on such a cash cow?

[youtube]bhyYgnhhKFw[/youtube]

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6860

Post by Gefan »

JackSkeptic wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:Is it just me, or does the younger of the two princes look nothing like the rest of the royal family?
It's been noted before. But there has also been silence on the matter for many years now.
Nothing unusual there. The Romanov dynasty was conspicuously lacking in any actual Romanov genes after Peter III.
I've also wondered how Prince Edward's children ever came to be. I have to imagine any resemblance they might have to the Earl of Wessex himself to be purely coincidental.


debaser71
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6862

Post by debaser71 »

IMO "The New Liberals" are stupid. And like I said a few pages ago....early on in the 'atheist movement" the leaders were women!

Kareem
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6863

Post by Kareem »

Guest wrote:dont think i saw this earlier

have fun

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/21/from_hi ... w_atheism/
Yeah, it's a shame people are stopping women from becoming famous for writing books on Atheism.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6864

Post by sacha »

VAXherd wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:In other news, I scored 30 and so apparently I fail as an Aspie. For those interested, Take The AQ Test:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
Psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen and his colleagues at Cambridge's Autism Research Centre have created the Autism-Spectrum Quotient, or AQ, as a measure of the extent of autistic traits in adults. In the first major trial using the test, the average score in the control group was 16.4. Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's report no difficulty functioning in their everyday lives.
I scored 34.

The test looks fine to me for what it is, a quick and easy self assessment of one's general position. It needn't be sneaky because it's not for clinical use, or intended to "catch" people trying to hide something. Since it's a self-report instrument it's limited to things people can notice about themselves, and being univariate (for simplicity) it's necessarily low resolution.

On a side issue, it's a mistake to insist that all aspects of a psychopathology be negative. I'm given to understand that some musicians even like having Tourette's syndrome. Well, drummers anyway.
it's a mistake to insist that all aspects of a psychopathology be negative. QFT

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6865

Post by Wonderist »

Slither wrote:As a dues-paying member of Procrastinators-R-Us, I decided to take a quick look at the academic work of Richard Carrier, and what I found was far worse than even my meager expectations.
See above quoted comment in full at: viewtopic.php?p=111248#p111248

Slither, I'll not be apologizing for Carrier in general (e.g. Atheism+ shenanigans), but your critique of Carrier seems to merely *repeat* the assertion that he claims Verenna is some big shot expert qualified to critique the whole field. He did not make this claim. The claim is false.

What's worse is that the claim is well refuted in the very post you linked to, http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3951

You perhaps did not read it thoroughly (it *is* long), so I'm quoting the relevant bit, in context. NB: Underlining of key sections added by me. All other formatting from original. Some formatting may have been removed in error, as I'm doing a text-copy and re-adding original formatting by hand. Unnecessary links de-linked and marked with an asterisk (*). Some relevant links left as is.]
Richard Carrier wrote:
Then We Get to the Telling of Lies


Yep, lies. Fisher says I “made the most extraordinary and unqualified claim that ‘every expert who is a specialist in methodology has concluded, one and all, that the methods now used in Jesus studies are also totally fucked’.” She tries to dispute that by questioning “whom” I consider to be expert (and as we saw, she condemns almost all actual experts as incompetent pseudo-scholars, so we can see where this is going).

In fact, my statement is true. My main criterion is right there in the statement she quotes: “a specialist in [the] methodology.” What counts as that? Someone who has the minimum qualifications in the field (= a relevant graduate degree) and has published studies and research on the methodology itself. Given those criteria, there is not one (not even one) scholar who disagrees with me (except, I’m sure, as to my colorful language).

Fisher’s contrary claim that “all competent and critical New Testament scholars investigating the history of early Christianity, should be competent in methodology in order to pursue academic enquiry” is not only rich (as we just saw, Fisher thinks almost all critical New Testament scholars are incompetent), but also false. If you have not taken the time to study and analyze the methodology to the extent expected of any graduate level thesis, you are not a specialist in it. You may know how to use it, but you do not know whether it is valid or sound. Knowing that requires actual directed study of that very question.

Really, I shouldn’t have to explain this to someone who thinks everyone is incompetent who isn’t hyper-specifically qualified in whatever it is they are discussing. But I’ve already said her standard is absurd. Mine is far more reasonable, and still it comes out with the conclusion: every expert who is a specialist in methodology has concluded, one and all, that the methods now used in Jesus studies are totally fucked (or at least mostly fucked, but either way, unsalvageable as-is). Fisher names some folks she claims have published studies of the methods used by Jesus scholars and found them sound, but she fails to cite a single article or book where they do this, so her claim is unverifiable. It’s also dubious. I suspect she is conflating “written about their own methods” with “published studies of the methods used by Jesus scholars and found them sound.”

But here is where Fisher’s morals go out the window. Fisher at this point goes on to condemn a book she hasn’t even read (which is now available: Jesus, Criteria, and the Demise of Authenticity*), featuring numerous prominent experts specializing in the methodology, all coming to this same conclusion. She gives the impression that I discussed this in the same place as the remark she quotes above (notably, she fails to identify either location or provide any links so readers can ascertain their context), which she calls a “blog,” which is correct for the colorful phrase (which is taken from here), where such things belong, but what she quotes me on about JCDA is actually not from a blog, but a major online industry publication, The Bible & Interpretation*, which published my article about my book (PDF here*).

Why is this important? Because Fisher says this:
Carrier then goes on to include several other people, including Tom Verenna who has no qualifications and Thomas Thompson who is not a New Testament scholar, suggesting they all reject historical method as leading to confusing results. This is a grotesque caricature of scholarship, and Carrier’s expectation that consensus should be reached by people of such different ideological perspectives is fantasy.
This is very dishonest. And it looks pretty libelous to me. Because here is what I actually said (and this is the only context in which I cited Verenna and Thompson on anything close to this point):
James Charlesworth concurs, concluding that “what had been perceived to be a developing consensus in the 1980s has collapsed into a chaos of opinions.”[10] Several others have come to the same conclusion, demonstrating, with extensive citation of examples, the whole confusion of contradictory opinions that has resulted from applying these methods: Thomas Thompson,[11] Thomas Verenna,[12] James Crossley,[13] Mark Strauss,[14] John Poirier,[15] Mark Allen Powell,[16] and John Dominic Crossan,[17] just to name a few
Note very carefully what this actually says. I did not cite Verenna or Thompson as specialists or experts in the methodology, and did not cite them in support of my statement that the methods are “fucked.” In lieu of my repeating that sentence, please read it again. Now look at what Fisher is saying: she is communicating to her readers that I cited Verenna and Thompson among the “experts who are specialists in methodology,” and that this makes me incompetent, because they are not competent to write about that subject. Leaving aside the latter assumption (which could be false), her claim is a lie. I did not cite Verenna and Thompson in that capacity.

What did I cite them on? As having documented what Charlesworth observed, that scholarship has now “collapsed into a chaos of opinions” about Jesus. Not the invalidity of methods. The proliferation of contradictory conclusions about Jesus. What qualification does one need to document (and I do mean document) that scholarship has now “collapsed into a chaos of opinions” about Jesus? Well, pretty much a brain, access to a library, and any means of typing words. Fisher’s entire attack against the competence of Verenna and Thompson is completely invalid. They are completely competent (even more than) to do this. The thing I actually said they did. And cited them as having done. And that topples Fisher’s claim that I must be incompetent or untrustworthy because I cited them…because there was nothing incompetent or untrustworthy about how I cited them or what I cited them for.

This appalls me. Because it means Fisher is so desperately keen on building her false narrative about my incompetence, that she is willing to deceive her readers, and quote me out of context, to create the impression I did something I didn’t. And she uses that as an additional opportunity to insult two other scholars in the field. (The nonsense that Thompson can’t be an expert in early Christian history because he is “only” an expert in second temple Judaism, which Christianity happens to be a sect of, I already debunk here. Verenna, meanwhile, is presently an undergraduate in the field who reports as a journalist*, a task for which he has developed considerable skill, arguably more than Fisher can claim. He also has published a chapter on this subject in a peer reviewed academic book*. It’s unknown to me whether Fisher has ever done that.)

It’s thus sadly ironic that Fisher accuses me of “select[ing] helpful words out of context.” Right. Her only example of this fails to illustrate her point. She claims I cite Goodacre out of context, and to prove it, she quotes Goodacre saying essentially the same thing I do, repeatedly in chapter five, where I argue (like Goodacre) that many of the criteria can be salvaged if used soundly…it’s just that I find that “soundly” means, as I demonstrate (a demonstration Fisher never once even mentions much less addresses), that it must be Bayesian, and once we go there, the results aren’t what Jesus scholars would hope for. I don’t think Fisher understands what “quoting out of context” means. I didn’t do it. She did. And in a profoundly dishonest way.
Of course, this doesn't say anything at all about Carrier's bizarre opinions on Atheism+, but let's not get over-enthusiastic with throwing people under the bus, especially for things they didn't actually do. Carrier on Atheism+ == disaster in the making. Carrier on Jesus == still hasn't misstepped, as far as I'm aware (could be wrong, but the above is not an example of it).

(BTW, I almost certainly won't be going further on this topic in the Pit. Seems off-topic to me. There are other places where such discussions are more frequent and more rewarding. Here's one off the top of my head: http://vridar.org/ )

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6866

Post by Wonderist »

Oops, I wrote: "The claim is false.", but intended to write, "The assertion is false." The assertion being Fisher's *assertion* about what Carrier *claimed*. Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Guest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6867

Post by Guest »

hadnt really been paying attention to salon



curious

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6868

Post by Wonderist »

Mykeru wrote: I know no one believes this, but I have a handful of videos in various stages of completion. I'm simply not linear, I bounce back and forth. I also may have adult onset ADD. I may be channeling Francis Ford Coppola.
Hey Mykeru, quick aside about ADD (Note: I'm speaking generically, since I know little about you personally, and wouldn't comment about your situation publicly even if I did; just some background info on the subject.):

AFAIA, there's no adult-*onset* ADD. ADD is something you have as a child (though often unknown/undiagnosed), and a large proportion (about two thirds or more) of people diagnosed with ADD as children never 'grow out of it', as many people used to think would happen. In fact, many diagnosed with ADD as children actually do learn enough coping skills and/or manage to work 'with' their symptoms rather than 'against' them, and so manage to have adult lives without any 'disorder', so in that sense, they do 'grow out of it'. Many comedians and actors (proportionately compared to the general population), for example, have ADD and a thriving career. Technically, one only has ADD/ADHD if it disrupts their quality of life (i.e. it is a 'disorder' and not just a personality type).

So, if one has ADD as an adult then, by necessity, one had it as a child. It's not something someone 'gets' later in life, there's no 'adult-onset' to speak of. The only way to really know for sure is to see an experienced doctor/psychiatrist for an official diagnosis. Unfortunately, it's difficult to diagnose since there are several other conditions that share similar symptoms, but which require different types of treatment. Also, apparently folks with ADHD are notoriously bad at self-diagnosis. Generally speaking, I would suggest to anyone interested to seek a proper diagnosis by a qualified mental health professional who has some experience diagnosing ADHD; that's the best way to be sure. In lieu of that, however, there *is* a quite good *screening tool* (not to be confused with self-diagnosis tool), here: http://www.addrc.org/wp-content/uploads ... -v1-11.pdf (The first six questions are key. The remaining questions are helpful, but not key. This is *not* a self-diagnosis tool, only a screener. No simple questionnaire is sufficient to diagnose; for that you need to see a professional.)

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6869

Post by Wonderist »

Cunning Punt wrote:
Skeeve wrote:Rook fucking Hawkins...LMAO
YES! I just learned it myself. Rook Hawkins formerly of the Rational Response Squad! :o

[youtube]9lnFobYlsF4[/youtube]

Say this isn't so... if this gets out this will make Carrier the absolute laughing he was always destined to be.
Hate to break it to ya folks, but Carrier most definitely knows Verenna is Rook Hawkins. He's going strictly off of what Verenna has published. Carrier also positively cites Bart Ehrman, despite Ehrman's weak book and blog posts on mythicism. When Ehrman's good, such as in looking at the errors in the Bible, he's cited positively. Where he's not, he's not. You can't fault Carrier on that one, either, sorry. He's behaving as a neutral scholar (in this circumstance).

Za-zen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6870

Post by Za-zen »

To correct: diana was not a commoner, it may have played well in the media, but she was in fact of the Stuart lineage, and if you didn't kniw that, but do know about British history, a lightbulb may well have went off in your head, yes, that means william will be the first monarch with Stuart blood to sit on that throne since the gates were closed.

And by the way, harry resembles the Spencers in his features.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart
http://www.britroyals.com/royaltree.htm

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6871

Post by Gefan »

Wonderist wrote:
Mykeru wrote: I know no one believes this, but I have a handful of videos in various stages of completion. I'm simply not linear, I bounce back and forth. I also may have adult onset ADD. I may be channeling Francis Ford Coppola.
Hey Mykeru, quick aside about ADD (Note: I'm speaking generically, since I know little about you personally, and wouldn't comment about your situation publicly even if I did; just some background info on the subject.):

AFAIA, there's no adult-*onset* ADD. ADD is something you have as a child (though often unknown/undiagnosed), and a large proportion (about two thirds or more) of people diagnosed with ADD as children never 'grow out of it', as many people used to think would happen. In fact, many diagnosed with ADD as children actually do learn enough coping skills and/or manage to work 'with' their symptoms rather than 'against' them, and so manage to have adult lives without any 'disorder', so in that sense, they do 'grow out of it'. Many comedians and actors (proportionately compared to the general population), for example, have ADD and a thriving career. Technically, one only has ADD/ADHD if it disrupts their quality of life (i.e. it is a 'disorder' and not just a personality type).

So, if one has ADD as an adult then, by necessity, one had it as a child. It's not something someone 'gets' later in life, there's no 'adult-onset' to speak of. The only way to really know for sure is to see an experienced doctor/psychiatrist for an official diagnosis. Unfortunately, it's difficult to diagnose since there are several other conditions that share similar symptoms, but which require different types of treatment. Also, apparently folks with ADHD are notoriously bad at self-diagnosis. Generally speaking, I would suggest to anyone interested to seek a proper diagnosis by a qualified mental health professional who has some experience diagnosing ADHD; that's the best way to be sure. In lieu of that, however, there *is* a quite good *screening tool* (not to be confused with self-diagnosis tool), here: http://www.addrc.org/wp-content/uploads ... -v1-11.pdf (The first six questions are key. The remaining questions are helpful, but not key. This is *not* a self-diagnosis tool, only a screener. No simple questionnaire is sufficient to diagnose; for that you need to see a professional.)
I live with someone who has ADD and has (she says) always had it. It can't be medicated because she also has Hypomania and medicating the ADD apparently makes that worse. It's a lesser of two evils kind of situation.
It sounds worse than it is. I've just had to adjust to it and make managing her ADD by providing structure and reminders for all sorts of everyday things, part of my routine.
Since I don't function particularly well without structure and routine anyway, the arrangement works out reasonably well.
The trickiest part, for some reason, has been remembering to make sure I have her attention before imparting any information. You have to do that, and wait a moment for her to focus, or anything you say will be accompanied by a "whooshing" sound as it flies out the other ear.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6872

Post by Wonderist »

Jan Steen wrote:
dogen (as anon) wrote:
Cunning Punt wrote:
It gets even more lulzworthy..............

http://thomasverenna.blogspot.com/

I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks very interesting. :lol:
This would all be fine, had Carrier not addressed these issues almost a month ago:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3951

I'm afraid I just can't get too excited about any of this...
He has hardly 'addressed' these issues. Take also a look at the link that Slither provided:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1739

If we are to believe Carrier, Verenna is a serious scholar.
Ummmm, if we are to actually, you know, *read* Carrier there, we would be led to believe that Verenna is :o
except Verenna, who is a history student at Rutgers
I know the urge to throw him under the bus is strong. But let's not start spreading rumours and false allegations around like FTBers do. Or are we to believe that Stef McGraw parrots misogynist thought now?

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6873

Post by ERV »

Guest wrote:dont think i saw this earlier

have fun

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/21/from_hi ... w_atheism/
I was surprised to find my local group annoyed with that article, as well as some other unexpected voices. The song-and-dance is getting old.

I however, kinda love it.

I am not Richard Dawkins. I dont want to be compared to Richard Dawkins. Science education, atheism awareness and support, I lose by several orders of magnitude.

I am also not sitting there saying "Y AM I NUT ASS POOPULAR AS DAWKINS??? IT MOOST BE CAUSE IM A GURL!!!", nor am I attempting a coupe of atheism/scientific activism like that idiot womanchild ('Its time for a new wave of atheism!!!!! This surge of hate is nothing more than the last gasp of a faction that has reached its end!!!... BAAAAAAAW WHY ARE YOU DISAGREEING WITH ME????')

This isnt Highlander. You dont get to rip down Dawkins or Harris and then, magically, you are as intelligent and accomplished as them.

But to the individuals who do think along those lines-- By all means, lets compare Watson to Hitchens, Christina to Dennet, and then ask ourselves 'Why are these individuals popular?' Why are some people trying to elevate uneducated, unemployed, unaccomplished internet personalities to the same status as genuine doers, thinkers, and luminaries?

Why are conferences inviting Watson to speak about god knows what (does it really matter when shes just going to make it up 5 minutes before her talk time anyway? has anyone figured out yet why she thought it was appropriate for her to talk about Evolutionary Psychology? has anyone figured out why she thinks anyone wants to hear her wine about anonymous twitter comments for an hour?) instead of encouraging atheist women who actually *do* things, like the head of FreeOK this year, or the head of Camp Quest OK, or literally any other female who actually does things in real life (in any capacity, not just skepticism/atheism)?

Any moron can write a blog. I know, because I did it. The question shouldnt be 'Why arent there more women in atheism?' but 'Of the women in atheism, why are we choosing our female role models so poorly?'

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6874

Post by Wonderist »

Gefan wrote: I live with someone who has ADD and has (she says) always had it. It can't be medicated because she also has Hypomania and medicating the ADD apparently makes that worse. It's a lesser of two evils kind of situation.
It sounds worse than it is. I've just had to adjust to it and make managing her ADD by providing structure and reminders for all sorts of everyday things, part of my routine.
Since I don't function particularly well without structure and routine anyway, the arrangement works out reasonably well.
The trickiest part, for some reason, has been remembering to make sure I have her attention before imparting any information. You have to do that, and wait a moment for her to focus, or anything you say will be accompanied by a "whooshing" sound as it flies out the other ear.
Good points, esp. that it can't always be medicated for various complicating reasons. Adding structure in one's daily routines and environments is an important coping mechanism, for sure. As they say, pills don't make skills. Coping skills are definitely key. Still, when available without complications, medication is a very effective part of treatment, though not the only part.

LurkerPerson

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6875

Post by LurkerPerson »

I thought this was hilarious. Too big for img code so just gonna leave the link.

http://i.nahraj.to/f/rfD.png

LurkerPerson

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6876

Post by LurkerPerson »

Well, equal parts depressingly stupid and hilarious, but that's par for the course with these extreme SJW's.

Dave
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6877

Post by Dave »

ERV wrote:The question shouldnt be 'Why arent there more women in atheism?' but 'Of the women in atheism, why are we choosing our female role models so poorly?'
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
And this is why we love you, Abbie. Once again you nail it.

AndrewV69
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6878

Post by AndrewV69 »

VAXherd wrote: There is one other thing which is terribly important, but hard to convey. I'm not even sure most scientists grasp it: Nature is about distributions, not averages or even ranges. For even a strong man/woman difference you will have many women who are more "manly" that most men, and men who are more "womanly" than most women. This makes it very hard to approach anecdotally, because counterexamples are always to hand.
The way this works is that men inherit only one X chromosome, from their mother, while women inherit two Xs, one from their mother and one from their father.

In the good old days we used to have X chromosome replacement events that effectively purged all of those girly men and manly women temporarily out of the population. The invaders quite often usually arrived with few if any women with them.

If they were going to settle in the area, they had to acquire women from somewhere, and quite often those women were obtained locally rather than imported. What eventually became Rome for example got started this way.

So there you have it. First generation product of manly men and cooperative women gets diluted into the second and by the third you are back to square one.

Example:

Manly Man:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~oh20j/classwe ... 0sung3.jpg

Not so manly son:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-yR-D0Fpdtbo/Tu9nk ... il+VII.jpg

Girly Man:
http://img.timeinc.net/time/2012/poypoll/un.jpg

All of this could have been prevented if I had been in charge of their breeding program. You need to breed them to women like these if you want reduce the chances of producing girly men.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/ ... nkgrrl.jpg

Oh well.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6879

Post by deLurch »

Dave wrote:
ERV wrote:The question shouldnt be 'Why arent there more women in atheism?' but 'Of the women in atheism, why are we choosing our female role models so poorly?'
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
And this is why we love you, Abbie. Once again you nail it.
I don't recall electing anyone, man or woman, as a role model.

About the only popular person I flat out respect on all levels is James Randi. But he really doesn't sell atheism. I enjoy much of Penn Jillette's TV work, but again most of his efforts are not about atheism. I respect Richard Dawkins scientific work and efforts as a science educator, but I am a little iffy on his approach to selling atheism. I greatly respect Neil deGrasse Tyson with no reservations, but like James Randi, he isn't pushing atheism; he is a science educator.

I guess those whom I really respect (Randi & Tyson) boils down to having nothing to do with atheism at all.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6880

Post by Jan Steen »

Wonderist wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
dogen (as anon) wrote:
This would all be fine, had Carrier not addressed these issues almost a month ago:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3951

I'm afraid I just can't get too excited about any of this...
He has hardly 'addressed' these issues. Take also a look at the link that Slither provided:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1739

If we are to believe Carrier, Verenna is a serious scholar.
Ummmm, if we are to actually, you know, *read* Carrier there, we would be led to believe that Verenna is :o
except Verenna, who is a history student at Rutgers
I know the urge to throw him under the bus is strong. But let's not start spreading rumours and false allegations around like FTBers do. Or are we to believe that Stef McGraw parrots misogynist thought now?
Arguing with wonderist is always a mistake, but this is for the onlookers.

Since when is being a student incompatible with being a serious scholar? Did I claim that? No, I didn’t.

That Carrier considers Verenna to be a serious scholar is obvious from the following quotes from that piece:
Part II has essays by Robert Price (who provides a very good précis of the Jesus myth theory, with an emphasis on the Epistles and their relationship to the Gospels), Mogens Müller (who argues the Epistles confirm a historical Jesus), and Thomas Verenna (who argues the contrary). These three essays are required reading for anyone who wants to examine the question of historicity in greater depth, especially to argue for or against historicity, as their arguments would have to all be taken into account in any such project.
Indeed, it is in my opinion the only argument for historicity that carries any significant weight (Verenna responds to it on pp. 157-58).
Though Müller’s chapter is a must-read (as much as Verenna’s and Price’s are), so is Lüdemann’s.
Looks as if Carrier takes Verenna pretty seriously, no?

My issues with Carrier, as I have explained several times before, are:

1) He is known to be dishonest about A+ and the A/S community. Why would he suddenly not be dishonest in his scholarly work?
2) He falsely inflates the academic credibility of his work by pretending that his Jesus book is properly peer reviewed (by four self-selected ‘major professor’ who can’t be named, of whom two failed to respond), and by pretending that peer review amounts to a seal of approval.
3) He is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified, constantly pontificating about things far beyond his competence.
4) He is a horrible writer.

Okay, I think haven’t said before that he is a horrible writer. But he is.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6881

Post by deLurch »

LurkerPerson wrote:I thought this was hilarious. Too big for img code so just gonna leave the link.
http://i.nahraj.to/f/rfD.png
7 billion people on this planet. Of course some of them are going to be idiots. Why search them out? Quality intellectually stimulating content is much harder to find and is more worth while.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6882

Post by dogen »

Jan Steen wrote:
Looks as if Carrier takes Verenna pretty seriously, no?

My issues with Carrier, as I have explained several times before, are:

1) He is known to be dishonest about A+ and the A/S community. Why would he suddenly not be dishonest in his scholarly work?
2) He falsely inflates the academic credibility of his work by pretending that his Jesus book is properly peer reviewed (by four self-selected ‘major professor’ who can’t be named, of whom two failed to respond), and by pretending that peer review amounts to a seal of approval.
3) He is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified, constantly pontificating about things far beyond his competence.
4) He is a horrible writer.

Okay, I think haven’t said before that he is a horrible writer. But he is.
I agree wholeheartedly with your four points here. Indeed, for the record I believe Dr Carrier sits on the intellectual scale slightly below the rather persistent yeast infection currently plaguing my bell-end (must remember to re-apply the cream this evening!).

But from my reading of slither's original posts I developed the impression that Carrier was wholly unaware of Verenna's credentials (or lack thereof). As wonderist has re-iterated, this isn't the case. Of course, one might argue that Carrier's knowledge of V's cred makes his reliance on V all the more damning; but that's a separate argument.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6883

Post by windy »

AndrewV69 wrote:
VAXherd wrote: There is one other thing which is terribly important, but hard to convey. I'm not even sure most scientists grasp it: Nature is about distributions, not averages or even ranges. For even a strong man/woman difference you will have many women who are more "manly" that most men, and men who are more "womanly" than most women. This makes it very hard to approach anecdotally, because counterexamples are always to hand.
The way this works is that men inherit only one X chromosome, from their mother, while women inherit two Xs, one from their mother and one from their father.

In the good old days we used to have X chromosome replacement events that effectively purged all of those girly men and manly women temporarily out of the population. The invaders quite often usually arrived with few if any women with them.
Pardon me if I interrupt your lecture professor, but it only "works that way" if "girly/manly" is a trait purely inherited through the X chromosome, and not, you know, a product of testosterone levels in the womb or other mechanisms that we actually have evidence for.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6884

Post by Jan Steen »

dogen wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
Looks as if Carrier takes Verenna pretty seriously, no?

My issues with Carrier, as I have explained several times before, are:

1) He is known to be dishonest about A+ and the A/S community. Why would he suddenly not be dishonest in his scholarly work?
2) He falsely inflates the academic credibility of his work by pretending that his Jesus book is properly peer reviewed (by four self-selected ‘major professor’ who can’t be named, of whom two failed to respond), and by pretending that peer review amounts to a seal of approval.
3) He is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified, constantly pontificating about things far beyond his competence.
4) He is a horrible writer.

Okay, I think haven’t said before that he is a horrible writer. But he is.
I agree wholeheartedly with your four points here. Indeed, for the record I believe Dr Carrier sits on the intellectual scale slightly below the rather persistent yeast infection currently plaguing my bell-end (must remember to re-apply the cream this evening!).

But from my reading of slither's original posts I developed the impression that Carrier was wholly unaware of Verenna's credentials (or lack thereof). As wonderist has re-iterated, this isn't the case. Of course, one might argue that Carrier's knowledge of V's cred makes his reliance on V all the more damning; but that's a separate argument.
If anything, Slither was too charitable towards Carrier if he assumed that Carrier didn't know who Verenna was. I must admit that I didn't know this either. Thanks, pitters, for educating me about Rook Hawkins/Tom Verenna. :lol:

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6885

Post by Gefan »

AndrewV69 wrote: The way this works is that men inherit only one X chromosome, from their mother, while women inherit two Xs, one from their mother and one from their father.

In the good old days we used to have X chromosome replacement events that effectively purged all of those girly men and manly women temporarily out of the population. The invaders quite often usually arrived with few if any women with them.

If they were going to settle in the area, they had to acquire women from somewhere, and quite often those women were obtained locally rather than imported. What eventually became Rome for example got started this way.

So there you have it. First generation product of manly men and cooperative women gets diluted into the second and by the third you are back to square one.

Example:

Manly Man:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~oh20j/classwe ... 0sung3.jpg

Not so manly son:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-yR-D0Fpdtbo/Tu9nk ... il+VII.jpg

Girly Man:
http://img.timeinc.net/time/2012/poypoll/un.jpg

All of this could have been prevented if I had been in charge of their breeding program. You need to breed them to women like these if you want reduce the chances of producing girly men.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/ ... nkgrrl.jpg

Oh well.
There's a temptation to see a dreadful, almost divine, justice in the mating of Kim Jong Un and Amanda Marcotte.

At the same time, the idea sounds like a rejected script fora a re-make of The Omen.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6886

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I don't have short legs, I just wear saggy pants while camping...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3980_n.jpg

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6887

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

And to clarify:

1) yes, I'm wearing my band's shirt. Only clean one I had

2) it's a 40 pounds yield composit bow

3) I don't hunt, I do target practice for fun

4) the arrow in the ground is not a ridiculous shooting mistake, that's how we dot it when we have no carquois.

5) since there were many pics posted lately, I thought this would be as good a time as another to show off.

6) well, that's it...

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6888

Post by Wonderist »

KiwiInOz wrote:
katamari Damassi wrote: May I?
If you note systematic errors
I believe you mean systemic.
Unless of course Aneris meant repeating or progressive errors.

:think:
katamari Damassi wrote:I think systemic is more apropos.
http://grammarist.com/usage/systematic-systemic/
Grammatically/definitionally speaking, I tend to agree with you. However, just so you know, in the sciences the term *really is* 'systematic error': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_error And now we know why they went into science and not English studies. :D

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6889

Post by dogen »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I don't have short legs, I just wear saggy pants while camping...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3980_n.jpg
http://www.britishbattles.com/100-years ... ncourt.gif

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6890

Post by Tigzy »


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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6891

Post by Tigzy »


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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6892

Post by Tigzy »

Pologies for the double fucking post.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6893

Post by dogen »

Tigzy wrote:Pologies for the double fucking post.
:dance:

Double Crecy is Best Crecy

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6894

Post by Lsuoma »

Tigzy wrote:Pologies for the double fucking post.
You so Crécy!!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6895

Post by Tigzy »

I was getting messy with the Crecy there...

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6896

Post by Tigzy »

I like the fact that Phillippe is right at the back there, no doubt brandishing his broadsword.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6897

Post by debaser71 »

IMO there are several pictures of Amanda M. where she looks like Tom Cruise. Including the one above.

Anyway like I've said before about her. Amanda Marcotte is the worst kind of ugly. Ugly on the inside.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6898

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Yeah, right, rub it in. And here I thought the Pit was a supportive, thriving community of nice fellows all round.

Now, I have to go brush up on my history. Well played, people!

Tigzy
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6899

Post by Tigzy »

Never mind, Phil. You'll always have Hastings.

You know - just that one time.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
That's All Folks
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6900

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I will say something that may be a first for a Frenchma, to say: The Brits have had the best archers ever!

I call that cheating...

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