Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Mmm, I don't see that Wonderist has done anything egregious warranting corralling, and certainly those who don't want to read his posts don't have to - same is true for any other member. But it's Lsuoma's sandbox to do with as he wishes. And Lsuoma did warn a while back (before today) that constraining Wonderist to a side forum was an approach he might take.

I like Wonderist. A bit longuish at times, but quite ok, IMO.

[Steersman]

FWIW, I have been attempting to pare down my posts – in part because on re-reading some of them even I find them rather tedious and long-winded. And I have been thinking about taking a course on writing except I already have too many things on my plate. But if you wish to provide some pointers – in general or on specific posts – then I’m all ears ….

I have no complaints about your posts, but I heartily recommend to anybody & everybody the book I suggested Wonderist read:



When I picked it up years ago, it dramatically changed for the better how I wrote.

Thanks.

Also for the book recommendation. Looks like quite an interesting set of chapter headings, and I rather like this quote of Hemingway which the author starts off with:

Paris Review: How much rewriting do you do?
Hemingway: It depends. I rewrote the ending to A Farewell to Arms, the last page of it, thirty-nine times.
Paris Review: Was there some technical problem there? What was it that had stumped you?
Hemingway: Getting the words right.

Kind of amusing as that is the same passage that starts off the book on writing that I have, Writing: Craft and Art by William L. Rivers. Not that I’ve gotten as far into it as I should have, but I might still take a look at the one you suggested.

[Steersman]

bovarchist said: "Ophelia is now acknowledging that she didn't realize that the woman was arrested for failure to appear, not expired tags. OMG, you mean she went off half-cocked without knowing what the fuck she was talking about? Say it ain't so!"
Admitting one's mistakes and errors? Isn't that considered good behavior for a skeptic? That specific action deserves a pat on the back and a recognition of progress, not sarcasm.

Yes, I quite agree. Tender shoots require nourishment and encouragement, not being stomped on ... ;-)

I am still less than convinced this is anything to be encouraged by. When it's no longer such a bizarre occurrence, perhaps then. One blade of grass is not a lawn, it's a weed.

I think it less a case of being encouraged by Ophelia's actions than providing encouragement to her - as suggested by "guest2's" "pat on the back". Although I suppose there's something of the former too, but I guess it depends on your perspective or point of view.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm going to start re-reading The Silmarillion as soon as I finish Jerry's Why Evolution Is True.

I am a brave man...

[Steersman]

I'm going to start re-reading The Silmarillion as soon as I finish Jerry's Why Evolution Is True.

I am a brave man...

Some hobbits are harder to change than others ...

[AndrewV69]

How much are you willing to bet?

Not much actually.

Before we go any further remember that windy was upset about? This was what windy assumed "a gene for a female phenotypic trait has to be on the X chromosome and its alleles must have complete penetrance."

We will come to that later. Skep tickle shall lead the way.

(It goes on to say the Y chromosome is doomed to disappear, estimating 10 million years.)

My guess was that this was a reference to the theory of the 'Rotting' Y Chromosome which made quite a stir at the time. Sure enough the abstract of the paper referenced noted:

In the last 300 million years, it has lost 1393 of its original 1438 genes, and at this rate it will lose the last 45 in a mere 10 million years.

Quite frankly I am not too worried about what is going to happen in the next million years, never mind 45 million. Mind, I would not object to living another 500 years to see how some of the burning issues of the day shake out (assuming I manage to dodge mad cow or alzheimer's disease or something similar that is ... would be just my luck to spend 500 years drooling into a cup).

Anyway, some believe that there is not much to worry about.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 154359.htm
The theory:

Proponents of the so-called rotting Y theory have been predicting the eventual extinction of the Y chromosome since it was first discovered that the Y has lost hundreds of genes over the past 300 million years. The rotting Y theorists have assumed this trend is ongoing, concluding that inevitably, the Y will one day be utterly devoid of its genetic content.

Don't worry. Be happy (I looked for a working link because the one at the Science Daily no longer works). Anyway:
http://wi.mit.edu/news/archive/2012/the ... fatal-blow

shows the chromosome hasn't lost a single ancestral gene in the past 25 million years. By comparison, the human Y has lost just one ancestral gene in that period, and that loss occurred in a segment that comprises just 3% of the entire chromosome.

Anyway, back to the bet. I am not taking it. Of course this means tomorrow someone is going to come out with something and I am going to go "You see this windy?" and windy is going to say "full penetration you fucking cunt" and ... well you get the idea (accidental double entendre left in on purpose).

From Pseudoautosomal region (Wikipedia), "The function of these pseudoautosomal regions is that they allow the X and Y chromosomes to pair and properly segregate during meiosis in males.[3]"

SRY is almost always on Y chromosome, but it can be nonfunctional resulting in an XY female (Swyer syndrome) or, due to mishaps in meiosis in the father, it can be located on the X chromosome (resulting in an XX male).

So, maleness is coded on the Y chromosome, we pretty much knew that.

But does that mean female-ness is coded on X? You could start with X chromosome: Function (Wikipedia): "The X chromosome carries a couple of thousand genes but few, if any, of these have anything to do directly with sex determination." But that's not very satisfying.

Luckily, it turns out there's more known than that about genetic determinants of gonadal genesis. See, for example, this 2012 review paper, "Mammalian sex determination - insights from humans and mice":

In the absence of SRY in XX individuals, RSPO1 and WNT4 are expressed at high levels and stabilize cytoplasmic β-catenin, which is then translocated into the nucleus, where it binds to the TCF/LEF (transcription factor/lymphoid enhancer-binding factor) and activates the transcription of target genes. Both WNT4 and β-catenin suppress (by unknown mechanisms) the SOX9/FGF9 positive feedback loop, allowing the ovarian-specific pathway to progress.

For those of you wondering what Skep Tickle is talking about it is very simple. SRY is only found on the Y chromosome and causes the development of male characteristics. For XX individuals in the absence of SRY the embryo develops as female. SRY however, also requires the action of multiple genes to develop testes.

So basically, the default is female. The female pattern is basically the default pattern for an embryo or foetus. Skep Tickle presumably is trying to diplomatically point this out.

The genes mentioned in those 2 sentences, and their locations, are:
RSPO1: located on the short arm of chromosome 1
WNT4: located on the short arm of chromosome 1
SOX9: located on chromosome 17
FGF9: located on chromosome 13

That same section of that review paper continues,

...A number of genes have been shown to be required for the development of the bi-potential gonad (Fig. 1a; see also Table ​1 for a summary of mouse and human phenotypes of genes described in this section).

The top half of Table 1 lists "Genes involved in the development of the bi-potential gonad"; those genes, and their locations, are:
EMX2:located on chromosome 10
LHX9: located on chromosome 1
CBX2, aka M33: located on chromosome 17
NR5A1: located on chromosome 9
WT1: located on chromosome 11

You might find this interesting:
http://wi.mit.edu/news/archive/2013/sex ... production

But there’s another side to the X, a side that is rapidly evolving and seems to be attuned to the reproductive needs of males.”
...
Expression analyses revealed that these genes are active almost exclusively in testicular germ cells, where, at a minimum, they likely contribute to sperm production. Further exploration of these X-ampliconic regions and their associated genes is warranted.
...
“This is a collection of genes that has largely eluded medical geneticists,” says Jacob Mueller, a postdoctoral researcher in Page’s lab and first author of the Nature Genetics paper. “None of these genes has been associated with a Mendellian trait. Now that we’re confident of the assembly and gene content of these highly repetitive regions on the X chromosome, we can start to dissect their biological significance.”

Adds Page: “These genes are more likely to have roles in diseases that are related to reproduction, infertility, perhaps even testis cancer. There’s a whole other book to be written about this aspect of the X.”

*shrug*

Oh well.

(windy is probably grinding teeth at this point and saying some very very naughty things ... just saying)

Oh, damn, you mean I coulda just given you the assignment of looking this up? :doh:

Well yes you could have. However, even though the effort was unnecessary, it was still appreciated. It is the thought that counts.

And now, girly men (not gay men, girly men. Two different things)
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=GYKLNNNX

YMMV

[AndrewV69]

Andrew, re: my Ramadan comment.

It's the noise going on until midnight. My neighborhood has a very large Muslim community. In my building alone, out of 16 flats, only 3 are occupied by non-Muslims. All the others are Muslim families with kids, and they do celebrate every evening until at least midnight.

Not to say that everything about Ramadan is bad. For exemple, our lovely upstair neighbors often bring us Tunisian dishes and pastry as they celebrate. But the noise, dear FSM!

Ah I see. Well you have my sympathies. One of the things I treasure about living in the sticks is the absence of noise, especially urban noise.

[Steersman]

Wonderist is the only person I've got on ignore. I generally hate using ignore because it can fuck up the sequential flow of a thread (I also think it is in some ways intellectually dishonest).

I had Steers on ignore for a while, but then I realized that even though he usually bores me to snoozems, he does sometimes have some very good points -- just terribly, terribly written (a la Natalie Screed endless stylee).
But Wonderist? Fuck. He's even boring and completely fatiguing when he's on ignore.

I can just see it now, when finally the entire Pit puts Wondersit on ignore, Lsuoma will politely inform him of such and Wonderist will say "See? Totality. I win!"

Thanks. I think.

FWIW, I have been attempting to pare down my posts – in part because on re-reading some of them even I find them rather tedious and long-winded. And I have been thinking about taking a course on writing except I already have too many things on my plate. But if you wish to provide some pointers – in general or on specific posts – then I’m all ears ….

in all seriousness? I would recommend some writers:

Seriously. Writing is an important skill and I need to become better at it.

Hemingway, Twain, Ambrose Bierce, Harlan Ellison, and Clarke's shorter works.

Read a fair amount of most of them with the exception of Bierce, although generally with less interest in the style than the content.

But thanks for the other suggestions.

[time to call it a day; night all]

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm going to start re-reading The Silmarillion as soon as I finish Jerry's Why Evolution Is True.

I am a brave man...

Some hobbits are harder to change than others ...

Ok, took me about 5 full minutes to get that one. Was that a revenge on my Hastings joke? Well played!

[JackSkeptic]

Mmm, I don't see that Wonderist has done anything egregious warranting corralling, and certainly those who don't want to read his posts don't have to - same is true for any other member. But it's Lsuoma's sandbox to do with as he wishes. And Lsuoma did warn a while back (before today) that constraining Wonderist to a side forum was an approach he might take.

I like Wonderist. A bit longuish at times, but quite ok, IMO.

I've spoken to him on Skype and of course he was part of the Nugent Dialogue. He is very likeable, easy to get on with and does respond to criticism and comment. He also loves to help out where he can. There are others here I could imagine censoring before him. Me included. If people don't like his style then stick him on ignore, easy. Really there are discussions here that put me to sleep (Zimmerman for instance) yet I accept that happens. It must happen to indicate genuine free thought and not the sterile environment some of our opponents love.

[TheMan]

Andrew, re: my Ramadan comment.

It's the noise going on until midnight. My neighborhood has a very large Muslim community. In my building alone, out of 16 flats, only 3 are occupied by non-Muslims. All the others are Muslim families with kids, and they do celebrate every evening until at least midnight.

Not to say that everything about Ramadan is bad. For exemple, our lovely upstair neighbors often bring us Tunisian dishes and pastry as they celebrate. But the noise, dear FSM!

Lol says he who plays in a rock band. You know the saying Phil... If it's too loud you're too old.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I use earplugs when I play. There's just something about the frequency of a 3-years-old's scream that really grates on my nerves. And that's basically what we are subjected to during the whole month of Ramadan. Oh, and don't forget to mutliply the number of kids. Each of the families in my building have at least 2, not a single one older than 5. These creatures get very excitable when allowed to stay up past bedtime.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Oh, I forgot: GET OFF MY FUCKING LAWN!!!

[windy]

Fuck, how do you read GNXP for so long and still have such a poor grasp of genetics?

Dunning Kruger effect? I dunno. What is your guess?

I was thinking along those same lines.

I might get somewhat annoyed, tends to happen when I see my field of science mangled by cretins. Creationists, Watson, Laden, you, same difference.

Oh I suspect I have a better grasp that that lot. Enought to have more fun with it at any rate.

I see no evidence of that. I’m sure Watson, for example, has loads and loads of fun ‘dismantling’ evo psych (as she sees it) and can quote studies that superficially appear relevant.

but all I'm doing is pointing out that YOU made a positive claim about a particular mechanism causing the evolution of a trait, in the absence of any evidence.

You could have asked for a cite instead of getting your knickers in a twist, and then I could have responded that I did not have any, and offered to go have a look.

Because I knew that you don’t have a cite (nor does such a cite exist), so why should I have asked you for one? To remind you of your original claim:

The way this works is that men inherit only one X chromosome, from their mother, while women inherit two Xs, one from their mother and one from their father.

In the good old days we used to have X chromosome replacement events that effectively purged all of those girly men and manly women temporarily out of the population.

Then I would not have been tempted to troll you (it could still happen if you keep this up though).

Do as you please, but word of warning, I scored higher than you on that so-called 'aspie' test...

(windy is probably grinding teeth at this point and saying some very very naughty things ... just saying)

Er, why should I be doing that? What you quoted is interesting, but has very little relevance to what you were prattling about.

Glad to know you fantasize about me, though ;)

[Metalogic42]

@Lsuoma:

This thing with Wonderist really, really does not sit well with me. It sits so unwell that for the first time, I'm seriously considering leaving the pit. I mean, who's next? What if I'm next? Do I now have to proofread my posts to make sure they're not boring enough to get me restricted to one forum? Should I self-impose word limits, just in case?

The thing I've always liked about the pit was that everyone could post freely. Even if they were fucking retarded. Even if their posts were so full of bullshit that everyone hated them - they were still allowed to say what they wanted to say. That's very important to me. But if that's no longer what the pit is, well, I guess I'm done with not just the pit, but with forums in general. Where else am I supposed to go to get that? The pit was unique in that regard.

Was.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

What Metalogic said, basically.

[Metalogic42]

What Metalogic said, basically.

I sent you a friend request on Facebook.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Received, accepted.

Cheers!

[Gumby]

As much as I detest that trollish and intentionally obtuse bloviator Wonderblunder, I have to say I disagree with his forced relocation. In other instances (Eucli, Mabus come to mind) I had no problem with the reasons given for banning or imprisonment. In the case of Technique Boy, it seems he's being punished for nothing but being an omnibabbling egotistical dickhead, which is hardly a legal offense. This reeks of "not the Pit way".

The other moderation actions Lsuoma has taken in the past (Eucli, Mabus, the one or two others in the history of this place) I had no quarrel with, as his reasons were sound, at least to me. But I see neither rhyme nor reason for this.

Wonderbore should be free to post here, just as we are free to either engage him on his own ridiculous terms, or ignore him, or have a laugh at him.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

What Gumby said, basicaly.

(With reservations about Eucli, I still think she should be allowed to come back when she's of legal age. I enjoy her participations elsewhere. Smart kid!)

[BarnOwl]

What Metalogic said, basically.

I'm in agreement with Metalogic as well, perhaps for different reasons. In developing and now teaching a huge clinical "brain and behavior" course with two colleagues this year, I've come to realize that I do not understand the field of psychiatry at all. I sit with the students during the case presentations, and when the questions are asked by the presenter, I have no clue what the correct diagnosis/treatment/response is. I would fail that part of the course, I think (I don't teach any of that part, obviously). I understand and can explain the pharmacology in great detail, but not the diagnostic process for psychiatric diseases. Therefore, I certainly have no business being judgy-pants about behavioral abnormalities or making "diagnoses" on the internetz. I think the only trait I can reliably recognize is pathological narcissism.

Behavioral traits that are assigned the label "aspergic" don't bother me in the least. If it's something I don't have to read, I just scroll past it. If it's from a student, then I can't ignore it, and I've learned to reach a sort of equilibrium state with that individual and their questions. For me it helps to get away from the labels and diagnoses. I would make a crappy psychiatrist, but fortunately I don't ever have to worry about being in that position.

[Dave]

As much as I detest that trollish and intentionally obtuse bloviator Wonderblunder, I have to say I disagree with his forced relocation. In other instances (Eucli, Mabus come to mind) I had no problem with the reasons given for banning or imprisonment. In the case of Technique Boy, it seems he's being punished for nothing but being an omnibabbling egotistical dickhead, which is hardly a legal offense. This reeks of "not the Pit way".

The other moderation actions Lsuoma has taken in the past (Eucli, Mabus, the one or two others in the history of this place) I had no quarrel with, as his reasons were sound, at least to me. But I see neither rhyme nor reason for this.

Wonderbore should be free to post here, just as we are free to either engage him on his own ridiculous terms, or ignore him, or have a laugh at him.

The fascist tit said he was going on vacay, and putting wonderbore in a box for the duration. As long as its just for the duration of the tits vacation, I'm ok with it. It not the choice I would have made, but if viewed in the light of, "you're getting close to the line, and I won't be around for a bit to see if you go over" it not an egregious choice.

If the wonderbore isn't let back out of the box when the tit returns, then I will likely join those disagreeing.

[TheMan]

What Metalogic said, basically.

Ditto

[mikelf]

@Lsuoma:

This thing with Wonderist really, really does not sit well with me. It sits so unwell that for the first time, I'm seriously considering leaving the pit. I mean, who's next? What if I'm next? Do I now have to proofread my posts to make sure they're not boring enough to get me restricted to one forum? Should I self-impose word limits, just in case?

The thing I've always liked about the pit was that everyone could post freely. Even if they were fucking retarded. Even if their posts were so full of bullshit that everyone hated them - they were still allowed to say what they wanted to say. That's very important to me. But if that's no longer what the pit is, well, I guess I'm done with not just the pit, but with forums in general. Where else am I supposed to go to get that? The pit was unique in that regard.

Was.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this isn't Congress or Parliament or the United Fucking Nations. The fate of exactly nothing rests on what takes place here. What is it with all this high dudgeon about freeze peach? A contact high of self-regard from whatever Wonderist is smoking?
This is a small discussion board that Lsuoma has graciously agreed to host. And if the host has decided one of the guests has overstayed his welcome, he has every right to tell the person to take his fucking clove cigarettes and disquisition on proper debating technique and fuck right off.

Don't like it? Start your own discussion board where you can solve the world's problems without the rights of the terminally boring being trampled upon. In fact, here is one that certainly looks to be a much more promising locale free from arbitrary moderation rules:

http://atheistskepticdialogue.com/

No need to thank me.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

mikelf: or use your fucking mouse-wheel! You know, skip those posts you don't like.

Fuck me! This place was in happy mode about 3 days ago and now it's going down to shit!

[Metalogic42]

@Lsuoma:

This thing with Wonderist really, really does not sit well with me. It sits so unwell that for the first time, I'm seriously considering leaving the pit. I mean, who's next? What if I'm next? Do I now have to proofread my posts to make sure they're not boring enough to get me restricted to one forum? Should I self-impose word limits, just in case?

The thing I've always liked about the pit was that everyone could post freely. Even if they were fucking retarded. Even if their posts were so full of bullshit that everyone hated them - they were still allowed to say what they wanted to say. That's very important to me. But if that's no longer what the pit is, well, I guess I'm done with not just the pit, but with forums in general. Where else am I supposed to go to get that? The pit was unique in that regard.

Was.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this isn't Congress or Parliament or the United Fucking Nations. The fate of exactly nothing rests on what takes place here. What is it with all this high dudgeon about freeze peach? A contact high of self-regard from whatever Wonderist is smoking?
This is a small discussion board that Lsuoma has graciously agreed to host. And if the host has decided one of the guests has overstayed his welcome, he has every right to tell the person to take his fucking clove cigarettes and disquisition on proper debating technique and fuck right off.

Don't like it? Start your own discussion board where you can solve the world's problems without the rights of the terminally boring being trampled upon. In fact, here is one that certainly looks to be a much more promising locale free from arbitrary moderation rules:

http://atheistskepticdialogue.com/

No need to thank me.

Of course Lsuoma has the right to restrict Wonderist. Hell, he has the right to ban me for absolutely no reason if he wants, and to make you co-admin.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[mikelf]

mikelf: or use your fucking mouse-wheel! You know, skip those posts you don't like.

I've had Wonderist on my Foe list for quite some time. What I am sick of is all the people who seem to think any of this (*waves arms around*) actually matters. It doesn't. If any of y'all want to strike a blow for free speech, turn off the computer, walk out your front door, and take on any of the real speech issues taking place around the world. All this armchair moralizing about who Lsuoma should allow in his house is nothing more than mental masturbation. Everyone is certainly free to enjoy their afterglow, just don't expect everyone else to give you a standing ovation.

[Gumby]

Mikelf, no one is overestimating the importance of this place. But it *was* formed partly as a counterpoint to the anti free speech excesses of FtB and arbitrary imprisonments/banishments seem antithetical to what many people here came here for in the first place.

[KiwiInOz]

@Lsuoma:

This thing with Wonderist really, really does not sit well with me. It sits so unwell that for the first time, I'm seriously considering leaving the pit. I mean, who's next? What if I'm next? Do I now have to proofread my posts to make sure they're not boring enough to get me restricted to one forum? Should I self-impose word limits, just in case?

The thing I've always liked about the pit was that everyone could post freely. Even if they were fucking retarded. Even if their posts were so full of bullshit that everyone hated them - they were still allowed to say what they wanted to say. That's very important to me. But if that's no longer what the pit is, well, I guess I'm done with not just the pit, but with forums in general. Where else am I supposed to go to get that? The pit was unique in that regard.

Was.

I agree with your sentiment. Remember though, that Lsuoma never claimed to be the messiah. He's just Mr Cranky Pants.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

That shit doesn't matter in the great scheme of things, but I do think it matters regarding what the Pit stands for. Abbie's ERV during EG was a free-for-all venue. The worst that could happen to you was a "fuck off". Now it's become the traditional welcome for new people here, which says a lot.

I love the Pit, I find myself thinking of most posters here as actual friends that I would be glad to host at my place if they ever wander around Nice. Wonderist is no different than all those other posters.

tl;dr: I don't see any reason why Wonderist should be banned from the main thread. When he says something good, good. When he gets annoying, ignore.

Fascist sparrow! (I'm doing it wrong, yeah?)

[Southern]

Andrew, re: my Ramadan comment.

It's the noise going on until midnight. My neighborhood has a very large Muslim community. In my building alone, out of 16 flats, only 3 are occupied by non-Muslims. All the others are Muslim families with kids, and they do celebrate every evening until at least midnight.

Not to say that everything about Ramadan is bad. For exemple, our lovely upstair neighbors often bring us Tunisian dishes and pastry as they celebrate. But the noise, dear FSM!

That, and also the fact that Ramadan is pretty stupid. Seriously, fasting? For what, exactly? For Allah? Fuck Allah. In the ass. With a flaming porcupine. Hey, Allah, get in line and get your porcupine from Pharyngula, shove it and rock on, baby. And after that you can suck a bag of dicks. Forcefully, while being raped by an unicorn. How's that, Allah?

Let's not be shy and step on eggs while talking about Islamic bullshit, because it's no different from the bullshit that Argentinian fraud is spewing right now here on Brazil. Fuck Ramadan, fuck that pre-Easter tradition of not eating red meat that I don't even know the name of, fuck the Jewish/Islamic tradition of not eating pork, fuck them all.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Lent, I think.

[Deo Vacuus]

Others have said it better, but I would like to add my discomfort with how Wonderist was dealt with.

[Southern]

I'm going to start re-reading The Silmarillion as soon as I finish Jerry's Why Evolution Is True.

I am a brave man...

I was listening to some Think Big videos with physicist Michio Kaku and he said that, in string theory, the sub-atomic parts are made of vibration, or "fundamental music". That reminded me of the Silmarillion right on the spot. That cool African-British Catholic fundie was really clever.

[AnonymousCowherd]

I'm going to start re-reading The Silmarillion as soon as I finish Jerry's Why Evolution Is True.

I am a brave man...

Some hobbits are harder to change than others ...

Ok, took me about 5 full minutes to get that one. Was that a revenge on my Hastings joke? Well played!

Hastings? Joke?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... c0I2sPeUcO_

Burt yer ur nut Belgian!

[Lsuoma]

FWIW, Wonderbore's exile was silently rescinded before I went to bed about nine hours ago.

I saw him haunting the pit after that, and wondered whether he'd shit up this place while I was asleep.

If he never comes back, I'll be well pleased - the lack of respect he shows for many people's wishes in the way he drops his turds everywhere, just so he can win, is very unpleasant.

He's a self-centered, asocial, "smarter-than-thou" shit machine, and I believe that the runt deserves a thorough shoeing every day of his life.

[another lurker]

I don't really have a strong opinion about Wonderist.

Then again, I've never made it far enough into one of his posts to figure out what side of an issue he was arguing.

Likewise. I am not always interested in what he has to say, so I just skip past his posts. No big deal.

[Metalogic42]

FWIW, Wonderbore's exile was silently rescinded before I went to bed about nine hours ago.

:clap:

[welch]

Yes, I quite agree. Tender shoots require nourishment and encouragement, not being stomped on ... ;-)

Doesn't good behavior for a skeptic also include reading every word of an article before you copypasta it onto your blog and tell people what they should think about it?

Seems reasonable to me, although I certainly find it a challenge to read everything I comment on before doing so - takes some effort to separate the wheat from the chaff. But, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.

I haven't actually had time to even check that post of hers recently, but I wonder whether anybody has even given her a "good show" for that acknowledgement. Or suggested that she might want to be a little more circumspect in the future. However, I kind of expect that since she's admitted her mistake she'll be more likely to read a little more carefully in the future. To coin a phrase, maybe not the beginning of the end, but certainly the end of the beginning ... ;-)

and given how she has blocked all communications with the folks here, exactly how would one do that?

[welch]

I think some people here (all of them with a great deal more patience than me) have taken time to engage Wonderist and help him.
I'm thinking of Matt Cavanaugh, for example.
It's not all been a pile-on and I can't be the only one out here who's reaction is a bemused shrug (plus an enjoyment of Bhoytoy's responses).

Wonderist can't be helped. He has mentioned in the past that he knows the issues but there is nothing he can is going to do about it because as far as he's concerned, it's not really a problem. People are a bit quick to judge others by their own definitions of what they consider normal and as an open forum we should try and take the rough with the smooth. The idea of any forum being reflective of the sort of clinical purity some at FtB yearn for makes me physically sick so I am strongly against any move in that direction.

Fixed that for you.

[welch]

What Gumby said, basicaly.

(With reservations about Eucli, I still think she should be allowed to come back when she's of legal age. I enjoy her participations elsewhere. Smart kid!)

Dealing with her on twitter gave me a slightly different opinion of her.

[windy]

So basically, the default is female. The female pattern is basically the default pattern for an embryo or foetus. Skep Tickle presumably is trying to diplomatically point this out.

I think she was trying to diplomatically point out that you were wrong with your assumption that your hypothetical gene would most likely be located on the X chromosome. That's the problem with using the Socratic method with you, you just think people are agreeing with you!

[Ericb]

FWIW, Wonderbore's exile was silently rescinded before I went to bed about nine hours ago.

I saw him haunting the pit after that, and wondered whether he'd shit up this place while I was asleep.

If he never comes back, I'll be well pleased - the lack of respect he shows for many people's wishes in the way he drops his turds everywhere, just so he can win, is very unpleasant.

He's a self-centered, asocial, "smarter-than-thou" shit machine, and I believe that the runt deserves a thorough shoeing every day of his life.

Sometimes life is such a cliche:

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/fla ... ame_20.php

[JackSkeptic]

What Gumby said, basicaly.

(With reservations about Eucli, I still think she should be allowed to come back when she's of legal age. I enjoy her participations elsewhere. Smart kid!)

Dealing with her on twitter gave me a slightly different opinion of her.

'Danger Will Robinson' comes up whenever I see an Eucli post. We also do not know she is underage or even female. I agree she can make very good comments though. In fact if she is as young as she claims she could be formidable sooner or later.

[Gumby]

Sometimes life is such a cliche:

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/fla ... ame_20.php

Fucking perfect.

[debaser71]

lol. Pile-ons. Authoritarian douchebaggery. General douchebaggery. Black and white thinking. And now bannings (dungeoning).

I think the pit should simply join forces with FTB.

They are almost one in the same.

[Mykeru]

@Lsuoma:

This thing with Wonderist really, really does not sit well with me. It sits so unwell that for the first time, I'm seriously considering leaving the pit. I mean, who's next? What if I'm next? Do I now have to proofread my posts to make sure they're not boring enough to get me restricted to one forum? Should I self-impose word limits, just in case?

The thing I've always liked about the pit was that everyone could post freely. Even if they were fucking retarded. Even if their posts were so full of bullshit that everyone hated them - they were still allowed to say what they wanted to say. That's very important to me. But if that's no longer what the pit is, well, I guess I'm done with not just the pit, but with forums in general. Where else am I supposed to go to get that? The pit was unique in that regard.

Was.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this isn't Congress or Parliament or the United Fucking Nations. The fate of exactly nothing rests on what takes place here. What is it with all this high dudgeon about freeze peach? A contact high of self-regard from whatever Wonderist is smoking?
This is a small discussion board that Lsuoma has graciously agreed to host. And if the host has decided one of the guests has overstayed his welcome, he has every right to tell the person to take his fucking clove cigarettes and disquisition on proper debating technique and fuck right off.

Don't like it? Start your own discussion board where you can solve the world's problems without the rights of the terminally boring being trampled upon. In fact, here is one that certainly looks to be a much more promising locale free from arbitrary moderation rules:

http://atheistskepticdialogue.com/

No need to thank me.

As someone who has been booted off more discussion forums for arbitrary capricious and butt hurt reasons than you've had hot dinners, I would just like to note that the "our house our rules" manner of thinking that all forums seem to gravitate towards has roughly the same effect on discussion as the hot sun on a puddle.

[John D]

Hey you cunts! I have a great idea. Let's talk about racism again! Last night I made burgers for 9 people (friends and family). A full third of the group were black! (That's three whole blacks at my dinner table at the same time) We talked about why light-skinned blacks insult dark skinned blacks. I shared the story of when a friend of mine explained to me what a "Coal-Black Nigger" was. Haha... good times.

Please enjoy this little ditty from one of my favorite shows... Avenue Q

[welch]

lol. Pile-ons. Authoritarian douchebaggery. General douchebaggery. Black and white thinking. And now bannings (dungeoning).

I think the pit should simply join forces with FTB.

They are almost one in the same.

Oh Socrates, if only we could be more like you.

[welch]

Hey you cunts! I have a great idea. Let's talk about racism again! Last night I made burgers for 9 people (friends and family). A full third of the group were black! (That's three whole blacks at my dinner table at the same time) We talked about why light-skinned blacks insult dark skinned blacks. I shared the story of when a friend of mine explained to me what a "Coal-Black Nigger" was. Haha... good times.

Please enjoy this little ditty from one of my favorite shows... Avenue Q

If you really didn't think you were racist, you'd probably not be trying so hard to get everyone else to acknowledge it. If you're not actually worried about it, why the need to get other people who aren't you, not actually a part of your life, many of whom don't even live in your neighborhood to validate you as non-racist? You seem to be rather needy about this, and if you're really not racist, then that makes no sense.

I find the loudest protests come from the people who are actually worried the most. Like how the loudest homophobes get busted sucking rentboy cock.

[welch]

Hey you cunts! I have a great idea. Let's talk about racism again! Last night I made burgers for 9 people (friends and family). A full third of the group were black! (That's three whole blacks at my dinner table at the same time) We talked about why light-skinned blacks insult dark skinned blacks. I shared the story of when a friend of mine explained to me what a "Coal-Black Nigger" was. Haha... good times.

Please enjoy this little ditty from one of my favorite shows... Avenue Q

If you really didn't think you were racist, you'd probably not be trying so hard to get everyone else to acknowledge it. If you're not actually worried about it, why the need to get other people who aren't you, not actually a part of your life, many of whom don't even live in your neighborhood to validate you as non-racist? You seem to be rather needy about this, and if you're really not racist, then that makes no sense.

I find the loudest protests come from the people who are actually worried the most. Like how the loudest homophobes get busted sucking rentboy cock.

[John D]

Hey you cunts! I have a great idea. Let's talk about racism again! Last night I made burgers for 9 people (friends and family). A full third of the group were black! (That's three whole blacks at my dinner table at the same time) We talked about why light-skinned blacks insult dark skinned blacks. I shared the story of when a friend of mine explained to me what a "Coal-Black Nigger" was. Haha... good times.

Please enjoy this little ditty from one of my favorite shows... Avenue Q

If you really didn't think you were racist, you'd probably not be trying so hard to get everyone else to acknowledge it. If you're not actually worried about it, why the need to get other people who aren't you, not actually a part of your life, many of whom don't even live in your neighborhood to validate you as non-racist? You seem to be rather needy about this, and if you're really not racist, then that makes no sense.

I find the loudest protests come from the people who are actually worried the most. Like how the loudest homophobes get busted sucking rentboy cock.

Double Post! You Cunt!

[Lsuoma]

Sometimes life is such a cliche:

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/fla ... ame_20.php

Fucking perfect.

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/fla ... ame_77.php too.

[debaser71]

lol. Pile-ons. Authoritarian douchebaggery. General douchebaggery. Black and white thinking. And now bannings (dungeoning).

I think the pit should simply join forces with FTB.

They are almost one in the same.

Oh Socrates, if only we could be more like you.

Fuck you cunt. You're most of the reason why this place is 85% FTB.

[Pitchguest]

Jesus, did Lsuoma drink from cunt's water or something? Fucking hell.

[Lsuoma]

OK, I'm possibly going to shut the pit down, at least while I'm on vacation, possibly permanently. I'll make the decision between now and when I get on the plane at 1.40 PDT.

There are enough cunts here that make me not want to do this anymore, and you all know who are, you fucking troublemakers.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I think some people here (all of them with a great deal more patience than me) have taken time to engage Wonderist and help him.
I'm thinking of Matt Cavanaugh, for example.
It's not all been a pile-on and I can't be the only one out here who's reaction is a bemused shrug (plus an enjoyment of Bhoytoy's responses).

Wonderist expressly asked for advice on how to better communicate here, going so far as to open a new topic on it. Many people responded, often without kid gloves on. At least two of us, me & Aneris, went so far as to critique & copy edit specific Wonderian passages as examples. I also strongly suggested Cheney's Getting The Words Right, an amazing book, not expensive at all.

To all that, Wonderist said, 'ah, well, but I need to use all those words, you see.' Fine. I made a good-faith effort, but now I'm done engaging him. Nuf 'ced.


That's not just cause to ban him. If everyone who was ever tedious or boring was banned, there'd be none of us left here. imo, only the most egregious instances of abuse or obvious spamming/trolling merit banning. Or sockpuppets. Fucking hate sockpuppets.

All the dozing off gifs & pix were an appropriate, very hilarious, & even gentle, response. It's in things like that where the Pit shows its quality over the true pig-piling & ostracizing of FtB, A+ forum, etc.

NB: Posting pix of half-nekkid girlfriends or Sacha's booty should most definitely NOT be banned. But please, more trigger warnings before gory "when live action role-playing goes wrong' pix, m'kay?


P.S. I'm fixing to start foe-ing those of you who block-quote entire comment streams without the slightest editing. Try scrolling through that shit on your iPhone!

[Metalogic42]

OK, I'm possibly going to shut the pit down, at least while I'm on vacation, possibly permanently. I'll make the decision between now and when I get on the plane at 1.40 PDT.

There are enough cunts here that make me not want to do this anymore, and you all know who are, you fucking troublemakers.

Wait, what? If you don't want to do it anymore, that's understandable. But why not pass the reigns to someone else?

[Southern]

OK, I'm possibly going to shut the pit down, at least while I'm on vacation, possibly permanently. I'll make the decision between now and when I get on the plane at 1.40 PDT.

There are enough cunts here that make me not want to do this anymore, and you all know who are, you fucking troublemakers.

Well, whatever then. Congratulations to Wonderist, who started this all, and to you for biting the bait.

[welch]

lol. Pile-ons. Authoritarian douchebaggery. General douchebaggery. Black and white thinking. And now bannings (dungeoning).

I think the pit should simply join forces with FTB.

They are almost one in the same.

Oh Socrates, if only we could be more like you.

Fuck you cunt. You're most of the reason why this place is 85% FTB.

Yes, yes, it's all my fault. This place would be a fucking paradise of sterile logic, turgid prose, and good feelings if not for me.

You're like rather a few people who had zero problems with PZ and the rest as long as they were crapping on theists and other groups you don't approve of. It was ONLY when that same shit started causing YOU problems that you suddenly discovered what proper comportment among skeptics and atheists is.

As long as he wasn't goring your ox, you cheered the little fucker on, and then were so very shocked when he decided your ox wasn't special either. Boo. Hoo.

I mean really, with money quotes like this:

And to think at one time he was rubbing elbows with Richard Dawkins and people of that caliber...P.Z. blew it big time with his antics. I hope his hard on for R.W. was worth it.

Poor debaser. His awesome superfriends weren't. Crushing I imagine.

It's the same thing here. You have zero problem when it's your "side" doing all the shitting on. It's only when it happens to you that OMG, BABOONS! FTB!

But it's okay. Just pretend it's allll my fault. The world would be a perfect place if someone offed me this afternoon, right? Of course. Life is so much easier when all your problems are someone else's fault. So blame it all on me if that gets you through the day.