Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

Old subthreads
VickyCaramel
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14581

Post by VickyCaramel »

Cold wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:I have read through the Forums of StormFront and felt less disgusted. I really don't think I am exaggerating.
Ironic you should say that. I did a stint at both Panda's Thumb and After The Bar Closes for a bit and these people are a million times worse than the people we mocked at those places. If I had to pick between being entertained by the Uncommon Descent crowd and the SJW's, I'd pick the former in a heartbeat, because while they're still complete and utter morons, the way in which they're morons is part of what makes them a little bit likeable. Almost cute, like watching a puppy struggle to stay awake or a child pretend to be an adult. These people on the other hand can be a source of humor, but at the same time it's unsettling because then you realize they have even less awareness of their idiocy than the creationists.

I don't know about Stormfront, because I'm pretty sure the majority of those people there actually believe what they're saying, but I can go on certain parts of 4chan and be rest assured that most of what is being posted there is either trolling or good-natured fuckery. The worst people on the site are sociopathic at best but at least they're completely aware of their sociopathy and can be self-referential.

Pharyngulites and SJW's in general reek of zealotry, and it's the inability to stop taking oneself so seriously that makes them more unlikeable than creationists and other pseudoscience types.
I said elsewhere that it would make an interesting study.

I have seen all the elements before, but not all together. I have talked to people who lived in communist countries who say they were in constant fear of being dragged off in the night. So they sung the songs, and many people denounced their neighbors before their neighbors denounced them. But despite singing the praises of communism, they knew it was wrong and would have escaped if they could.

FTB/etc act as if they are constantly trying to prove they aren't the enemy within by showing how aggressive they are and how much they hate the enemy. If they are afraid, it is probably fear that they would be removed from the group that validates them. And they actually seem to believe this crap. It is like a cult.

I guess the higher levels of Scientology are the only thing I can think of which is comparable to this, but it isn't the same methodology, not even close.

I wonder if animal rights activists are similar?

Rope apologist
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14582

Post by Rope apologist »

You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.

16bitheretic
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14583

Post by 16bitheretic »

VickyCaramel wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote: I confess... I did intend to Poe, but nothing I could think of was as crazy as the stuff that was already being posted.
Did your blood run cold when you realized that they were being on the level?
In complete honesty, that doesn't begin to describe it.

I was shocked that people like this exist. I felt insulted as a woman that they try to speak for me, and as a mother... can you imagine what it is like to read all that rape theory shit and for me to look over at my 5 year old son, and think, they are labeling him a potential rapist. On some level I felt attacked.

So I'll say it again, I was shocked. That a political ideology could breed fear, hatred and complete idiocy is really a no-brainer... and it isn't like I haven't seen groups actually being the exact opposite of what they say and think they are. I just could never have envisaged this degree of hate and bigotry from social justice warriors.

I have read through the Forums of StormFront and felt less disgusted. I really don't think I am exaggerating.

So there you have it, they so frequently express their personal feelings, only right I should express how they make me feel, just this once.
I don't wanna get too deep into this because I get ranty, but the types of ideology seen on the A+ forum and in the commentary at Pharyngula and Skepchick are denigrating to everyone, male and female, and typically revolve around suburban first world whining from very socially dysfunctional people. It is like stepping into an alternate reality when you encounter these types.

Rope apologist
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14584

Post by Rope apologist »

SkepticalCat wrote:
Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.
Caine (who is indeed the very worst of the worst) is actually (she says) in her mid-50s, one of the older of those lunatics. She has apparently doxxed herself quite nicely at the "Pharyngula Wiki":

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Caine,_Fleur_du_mal
We know one thing, that her husband must be mentally ill.

If lucky, he was before, rather than she driving him to it.

Kareem
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14585

Post by Kareem »

windy wrote:Maryam Namazie adds more common sense to the comments of her 'Report them!' post:
28. Maryam Namazie
August 12, 2013 at 9:08 pm (UTC 1)

I find some of the comments here really bizarre and don’t want to spend too much time getting bogged down with this tone of debate – which I find unhelpful – but I do want to make some general comments.

Telling someone who has already gone public with a case of sex assault or abuse or rape to report the perpetrator is not dismissing her claim. It is in fact taking it seriously. However poor the law is, it is a real option for people to get some sort of redress and hearing that is unavailable elsewhere. Even if the issue is addressed at one’s workplace or on a million blogs, the woman in question has the right to be heard. Perpetrators – however we dislike them – also have a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

That the system is unfair or that violence against women is ignored are not excuses for disregarding available options and pressing for justice. If everyone decided to take things in their own hands, we wouldn’t have had positive changes in the law because people fought for and finally got justice that was initially denied. Trying the case on blogs and via boards of various organisations is not the way to get real redress and justice.

As someone who has spent most of my life fighting unfair laws, and opposing various police and government efforts to turn a blind eye I think it’s important for women to go to the police and demand action, particularly women who are confident enough to fight their employers and to do so publicly on these issues. They are the ones who also need to be at the forefront of bringing improvements in the law and demand redress when none is provided.

Finally I find it slightly absurd how some of the Americans here are trying to prove how awful America is compared to everywhere else. You do really think the world revolves around you don’t you? Capitalism is found everywhere and violence against women, racism, inequality are part and parcel of the system.

In fact, I know that system well. I was pulled over a barricade, kicked in the face, had police jump on my stomach which resulted in internal bleeding, had my trousers torn and my glasses broken, was arrested with 17 others and charged with 13 years in prison for opposing the first Gulf war in 1991 at the homecoming parade by the infamous NYPD. Of course the police charged myself and 17 others (we were called the War Parade 18) with assaulting them, obstructing justice and so on.

In prison we were woken up and photographed and told that if “you had been fucked more, you wouldn’t be protesting” and so on… The police attacked us at one of our hearings, our car was broken into and on and on.

I spent 3 years going to court. Thankfully we had excellent Leftwing pro bono lawyers representing us. The charges were eventually dropped when we found footage of the police dragging us over the barricades and beating us, showing clearly that they had been lying all along – as they do.

Britain’s police may be more subtle but can be just as brutal when push comes to shove and they continue to ignore everything from death threats I have received and so on.

Life’s unfair and very often the cards are stacked against us. So we have to fight and one of the ways is to fight to change the law or make it more responsive.

Changes in the law are important steps in bringing about positive changes in society – from institutional racism to violence against women.
*insert standard Jan Steen disclaimer about the dangers of the one party state and advocates thereof*
Is she one of those FTBloggers who isn't really an Apluser? She makes too much sense for that group.

Cold
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14586

Post by Cold »

Rope apologist wrote:prima facie
Also their constant misuse of phrases like The Dunning-Kruger effect suggests that they don't actually know what The Dunning-Kruger Effect is and that they're a pretty good example of it.

Cold
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14587

Post by Cold »

SkepticalCat wrote:
Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.
Caine (who is indeed the very worst of the worst) is actually (she says) in her mid-50s, one of the older of those lunatics. She has apparently doxxed herself quite nicely at the "Pharyngula Wiki":

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Caine,_Fleur_du_mal
There's a Pharyngula Wiki?

Can these people be any more narcissistic?

VickyCaramel
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14588

Post by VickyCaramel »

Cold wrote:
SkepticalCat wrote:
Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.
Caine (who is indeed the very worst of the worst) is actually (she says) in her mid-50s, one of the older of those lunatics. She has apparently doxxed herself quite nicely at the "Pharyngula Wiki":

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Caine,_Fleur_du_mal
There's a Pharyngula Wiki?

Can these people be any more narcissistic?
Can you imagine what a Slymepit Wiki would look like?

JackRayner
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14589

Post by JackRayner »

Badger3k wrote:I've tried to figure this out: PZ on @elevatorgate. MAybe it's just because I don't use twitter or storify, and couldn't care less if people copy what I make public or if they want to spam. Spam gets tossed out and ignored. Same as junk mail and junk phone calls - deleted off the machine.

PZ compares him to Mabus. Not sure on this. As far as I know, @elevatorgate never threatened anyone (could be wrong, as I don't follow him).
Correct. He hasn't.
It sounds like this guy is doing the same thing as spamming. However I don't know what is being said, and whether it is harassment - whether he is manking personal suggestions, etc, or just spamming. I did notice the disconnect that we have been saying all along. There is a difference between things being brought to your attention and things that you must go to and look for yourself. That I agree with.
He isn't spamming. EG has just been storifying their publicly available tweets. Now, there are settings on Storify that each user can set, and one of these lets the user know anytime they've have been added to a Storify. These idiots raving against EG are partly crying about the fact that they don't want to have to turn off email notifications, but they're mostly just building a threat narrative against EG by repeatedly asserting that he is a stalker and a harasser. [One of these idiots has literally been crying about fearing for her life.]

Personally, I think both are straight BS. The former for obvious reasons, the latter because they've been given the means to shut him out from seeing any of their tweets [why keep your account public and then bitch and moan that people can read your shit and share it around?!], or even just turn off their Storify notifications, so they don't have to know when he's compiling the shit they've said publicly and sharing it with the world. Nothing EG is doing is violating the Twitter Terms of Service, and the co-founder of Storify himself has told these idiots that there's nothing wrong with him [or anyone else, for that matter] storifying their publicly available tweets. [PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. How many more times should I spell that out?] But of course, these are delicate flowers we're talking about, so expecting them to do anything about it is just promoting rape culture.

Anyways, check this Storify and this Storify for the scoop.

Fuck it! Let me add one more. This last one really shows how batshit these people bitching about Storify are...

Pitchguest
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14590

Post by Pitchguest »

Badger3k wrote:I've tried to figure this out: PZ on @elevatorgate. MAybe it's just because I don't use twitter or storify, and couldn't care less if people copy what I make public or if they want to spam. Spam gets tossed out and ignored. Same as junk mail and junk phone calls - deleted off the machine.

PZ compares him to Mabus. Not sure on this. As far as I know, @elevatorgate never threatened anyone (could be wrong, as I don't follow him).

But this bit from John Scalzi (twice now, I suspect some kind of SJW or SJW friendly): (this is the whole quote that PZ quoted, linked in the original)
A Twitter and Storify user who goes by the handle “@elevatorGATE” is a well-known cyberstalker of women via social media. His latest method of doing this is to compile thousands of pieces on Storify, often including every single tweet sent by his chosen targets, and then publish them, which notifies the women in question that he had published yet another piece archiving their every word. After repeated complaints and requests for help, Storify temporarily deactivated the notification feature on his account, which doesn’t actually solve the problem.
In a conversation yesterday with Xavier Damman, the Storify CEO suggested that the women @elevatorGATE is targeting turn off all notifications from Storify, which essentially suggests that they withdraw from the medium if they don’t like being stalked, and which also wouldn’t solve the problem of this user archiving everything these women say. One of the users pointed out that this is very much like telling a woman who is being harassed via telephone to never answer the phone. It was at this point in the conversation that Damman went from passively enabling a stalker to actively assisting one. He tweeted, in response to the women, that they “…can’t do anything about that. It’s @elevatorgate’s right to quote public statements…”
Prior to this point in the conversation, the women had named their stalker, but not used the @ symbol in front of his username. You know enough about Twitter to know why that’s a big deal. Damman either carelessly or deliberately notified a man stalking multiple women that they were seeking some way to prevent him from continuing to harass them, and then claimed it was no big deal because anyone searching for the information would have been able to find it. But there’s a very big difference between information existing and that same information being directly brought to a person’s attention.
If you know much about stalking, you’ll know what happens next. @elevatorGATE has substantially stepped up his harassment of the women who had asked Damman for help. Men who follow him on both Storify and Twitter have been bombarding these women via Storify notifications and Tweets with additional harassment. He has also increased his harassment of known online associates of the women in question, making it difficult for them to seek out help or support from fear of his beginning to stalk their friends as well. It’s the reason I’m contacting you privately, via email, rather than via social media: I’m afraid. I don’t want to be added to his list of targets.
It sounds like this guy is doing the same thing as spamming. However I don't know what is being said, and whether it is harassment - whether he is manking personal suggestions, etc, or just spamming. I did notice the disconnect that we have been saying all along. There is a difference between things being brought to your attention and things that you must go to and look for yourself. That I agree with.

As for the rest, I really can't say. I have twitter but rarely use it, and in any case I have notifications turned off. The last thing I want to do is waste my time at work getting a bunch of tweets about where people are or what they are eating, or doing. If I want that, at that very minute, I'll call. Having grown up without that intrusion and pushing your personal life into the public, I can't understand the kids or adults who cannot be weaned away from their twitter/facebook/text/IM/whatever pacifier. What is so important that you need to be notified if someone mentions your name? What kind of ego is that - it doesn't seem like one that is very secure. I know I'm assigning motivations, but I just don't get it, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Hell, if everyone in the world wanted to talk about me, go ahead, I have no idea who you are so I don't care what you say.

Now, I will say if he's doing something illegal, then he should be stopped. I might think of more, but I have a Rifftrax Live event to go to, and gots to gets ready.
Posting this here, for posterity. A response to John Scalzi:
Isn’t this why Storify was created in the first place? To document conversations? Does the mere act of documenting — essentially keeping a history log — now constitute as harassment? And how does it enter into constituting as harassment again? This is very confusing.

Also, isn’t cyberstalking a crime? Don’t you have to have sufficient evidence to accuse someone of cyberstalking? If all he does is Storify their conversations but never actually takes part in the actual conversation, including tagging them, then he isn’t just keeping a log? For instance, if I were to Freezepage (or save) every single blog post you make, John, to hold and keep as evidence for something or other, but never actually posting a single comment on your blog, would that count as cyberstalking? Doesn’t that mean that pinging an article would serve as cyberstalking as well?

Finally, I can’t see where @elevatorgate is encouraging his followers to stalk and/or harass women. On his blog?

http://elevatorgate.wordpress.com/

Nope. Seems the last submission there was back in 2012. On his Storify account?

http://storify.com/ElevatorGATE/

Seems not. Can’t see a single reference to the encouraging of stalking and/or harassing women online.

Again, isn’t accusing someone of being a stalker (even a cyberstalker) a crime worthy of libel?

And again, why is documenting conversations on Twitter considered cyberstalking?
An addendum to the post: PZ compares him to David Markuze, and claims @elevatorgate hates women (without evidence, obviously, par for the course). Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Mabus' shtick that he injected himself into every conversation and created sockpuppet upon sockpuppet to weather the incoming bans? Doesn't @elevatorgate just Storify people's conversation on Twitter, essentially keeping a log, but not actually participating himself? Wouldn't that make him nothing at all like Mabus, or am I wrong?

As for his claims that @elevatorgate hates women, wasn't it @elevatorgate who kept a log on the bullying of Sara Mayhew, Miranda Celeste Hale and Harriet Hall? Is that what hating women signifies?

real horrorshow
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14591

Post by real horrorshow »

Badger3k wrote:I've tried to figure this out: PZ on @elevatorgate. MAybe it's just because I don't use twitter or storify, and couldn't care less if people copy what I make public or if they want to spam. Spam gets tossed out and ignored. Same as junk mail and junk phone calls - deleted off the machine.

PZ compares him to Mabus. Not sure on this. As far as I know, @elevatorgate never threatened anyone (could be wrong, as I don't follow him).

But this bit from John Scalzi (twice now, I suspect some kind of SJW or SJW friendly): (this is the whole quote that PZ quoted, linked in the original)
A Twitter and Storify user who goes by the handle “@elevatorGATE” is a well-known cyberstalker of women via social media. His latest method of doing this is to compile thousands of pieces on Storify, often including every single tweet sent by his chosen targets, and then publish them, which notifies the women in question that he had published yet another piece archiving their every word. After repeated complaints and requests for help, Storify temporarily deactivated the notification feature on his account, which doesn’t actually solve the problem.
In a conversation yesterday with Xavier Damman, the Storify CEO suggested that the women @elevatorGATE is targeting turn off all notifications from Storify, which essentially suggests that they withdraw from the medium if they don’t like being stalked, and which also wouldn’t solve the problem of this user archiving everything these women say. One of the users pointed out that this is very much like telling a woman who is being harassed via telephone to never answer the phone. It was at this point in the conversation that Damman went from passively enabling a stalker to actively assisting one. He tweeted, in response to the women, that they “…can’t do anything about that. It’s @elevatorgate’s right to quote public statements…”
Prior to this point in the conversation, the women had named their stalker, but not used the @ symbol in front of his username. You know enough about Twitter to know why that’s a big deal. Damman either carelessly or deliberately notified a man stalking multiple women that they were seeking some way to prevent him from continuing to harass them, and then claimed it was no big deal because anyone searching for the information would have been able to find it. But there’s a very big difference between information existing and that same information being directly brought to a person’s attention.
If you know much about stalking, you’ll know what happens next. @elevatorGATE has substantially stepped up his harassment of the women who had asked Damman for help. Men who follow him on both Storify and Twitter have been bombarding these women via Storify notifications and Tweets with additional harassment. He has also increased his harassment of known online associates of the women in question, making it difficult for them to seek out help or support from fear of his beginning to stalk their friends as well. It’s the reason I’m contacting you privately, via email, rather than via social media: I’m afraid. I don’t want to be added to his list of targets.
It sounds like this guy is doing the same thing as spamming. However I don't know what is being said, and whether it is harassment - whether he is manking personal suggestions, etc, or just spamming. I did notice the disconnect that we have been saying all along. There is a difference between things being brought to your attention and things that you must go to and look for yourself. That I agree with.

As for the rest, I really can't say. I have twitter but rarely use it, and in any case I have notifications turned off. The last thing I want to do is waste my time at work getting a bunch of tweets about where people are or what they are eating, or doing. If I want that, at that very minute, I'll call. Having grown up without that intrusion and pushing your personal life into the public, I can't understand the kids or adults who cannot be weaned away from their twitter/facebook/text/IM/whatever pacifier. What is so important that you need to be notified if someone mentions your name? What kind of ego is that - it doesn't seem like one that is very secure. I know I'm assigning motivations, but I just don't get it, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Hell, if everyone in the world wanted to talk about me, go ahead, I have no idea who you are so I don't care what you say.

Now, I will say if he's doing something illegal, then he should be stopped. I might think of more, but I have a Rifftrax Live event to go to, and gots to gets ready.
From the piece you've quoted, I don't see that @elevatorGATE is guilty of anything. Not spamming and certainly not 'cyberstalking' He follows and archives what some people choose to put into the public space that is the WWW. I see no harm in that. If you hang a board with your opinions written on it on the front of your house, it's a bit silly to get angry at passers-by who stop to read it. Though the likes of Melodramatic Melody do exactly that!

If he notifies the people whose public utterances he archives that he is doing so, I don't see any harm their either. In fact, it could be construed as a courtesy! If they don't wish to pay attention to his notifications, they can bin them like any other spam.

The accusation thrown at Damman is silly too. So, he included @elevatorGATE in the discussion that was about him? Why the hell not? @elevatorGATE is a user of Damman's service who has - so far as I can see - done nothing wrong. Isn't he entitled to know what's being said about him? It's bad enough that PeeZus supports anonymous denunciation. These jokers want the accused to remain unaware he's been denounced at all!

To me, this reads like more nonsense, from the swooning virgins, who regard the fact that people who disagree with are allowed to exist, as a daily affront to their delicate sensibilities. And who are also worried that someone is keeping an eye out for their inconsistencies and, indeed, downright hypocrisy.

If I recall correctly, @elevatorGATE was outed last year as a British teenager. Some of the commentary I read from him back then was a bit juvenile. That's the worst I can say about him. Oh, and I don't Twattle either. I don't see the point.

AndrewV69
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14592

Post by AndrewV69 »

Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.

It would be fascinating to study these people in real life and find out what motivates them to write the way they do.
Last I heard is that Caine lives in Dakota out in the sticks. That is supposed to explain it all.

Ä uest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14593

Post by Ä uest »

Badger3k wrote:I've tried to figure this out: PZ on @elevatorgate. MAybe it's just because I don't use twitter or storify, and couldn't care less if people copy what I make public or if they want to spam. Spam gets tossed out and ignored. Same as junk mail and junk phone calls - deleted off the machine.

PZ compares him to Mabus. Not sure on this. As far as I know, @elevatorgate never threatened anyone (could be wrong, as I don't follow him).

But this bit from John Scalzi (twice now, I suspect some kind of SJW or SJW friendly): (this is the whole quote that PZ quoted, linked in the original)
A Twitter and Storify user who goes by the handle “@elevatorGATE” is a well-known cyberstalker of women via social media. His latest method of doing this is to compile thousands of pieces on Storify, often including every single tweet sent by his chosen targets, and then publish them, which notifies the women in question that he had published yet another piece archiving their every word. After repeated complaints and requests for help, Storify temporarily deactivated the notification feature on his account, which doesn’t actually solve the problem.
In a conversation yesterday with Xavier Damman, the Storify CEO suggested that the women @elevatorGATE is targeting turn off all notifications from Storify, which essentially suggests that they withdraw from the medium if they don’t like being stalked, and which also wouldn’t solve the problem of this user archiving everything these women say. One of the users pointed out that this is very much like telling a woman who is being harassed via telephone to never answer the phone. It was at this point in the conversation that Damman went from passively enabling a stalker to actively assisting one. He tweeted, in response to the women, that they “…can’t do anything about that. It’s @elevatorgate’s right to quote public statements…”
Prior to this point in the conversation, the women had named their stalker, but not used the @ symbol in front of his username. You know enough about Twitter to know why that’s a big deal. Damman either carelessly or deliberately notified a man stalking multiple women that they were seeking some way to prevent him from continuing to harass them, and then claimed it was no big deal because anyone searching for the information would have been able to find it. But there’s a very big difference between information existing and that same information being directly brought to a person’s attention.
If you know much about stalking, you’ll know what happens next. @elevatorGATE has substantially stepped up his harassment of the women who had asked Damman for help. Men who follow him on both Storify and Twitter have been bombarding these women via Storify notifications and Tweets with additional harassment. He has also increased his harassment of known online associates of the women in question, making it difficult for them to seek out help or support from fear of his beginning to stalk their friends as well. It’s the reason I’m contacting you privately, via email, rather than via social media: I’m afraid. I don’t want to be added to his list of targets.
It sounds like this guy is doing the same thing as spamming. However I don't know what is being said, and whether it is harassment - whether he is manking personal suggestions, etc, or just spamming. I did notice the disconnect that we have been saying all along. There is a difference between things being brought to your attention and things that you must go to and look for yourself. That I agree with.

As for the rest, I really can't say. I have twitter but rarely use it, and in any case I have notifications turned off. The last thing I want to do is waste my time at work getting a bunch of tweets about where people are or what they are eating, or doing. If I want that, at that very minute, I'll call. Having grown up without that intrusion and pushing your personal life into the public, I can't understand the kids or adults who cannot be weaned away from their twitter/facebook/text/IM/whatever pacifier. What is so important that you need to be notified if someone mentions your name? What kind of ego is that - it doesn't seem like one that is very secure. I know I'm assigning motivations, but I just don't get it, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Hell, if everyone in the world wanted to talk about me, go ahead, I have no idea who you are so I don't care what you say.

Now, I will say if he's doing something illegal, then he should be stopped. I might think of more, but I have a Rifftrax Live event to go to, and gots to gets ready.
Scalzi is a very well known SF writer and former President of SFWA.

He is widely known for his essay http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/s ... -there-is/ but this essay suffers from his own "privilege" - that is, he is a very smart talented guy that has become very successful.

Because he feels he was successful and made it on his own, then all white men should be successful and make it on their own.

I think of this as a "bootstrap fallacy" -- it's often attributed to "tea partiers' by folks on the left.

Tribble
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14594

Post by Tribble »

JackRayner wrote:
JackRayner wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Irregardless
You did that on purpose, didn't you? :lol:
Wow....Okay. I should have really read the rest of the post. It would have been obvious then. :?
Yeah. I started to respond. Then: OH!!!! I see...

AndrewV69
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14595

Post by AndrewV69 »

LonLon wrote:They Are mongooses, they kill cobras.

Cobra vs. Mongoose [youtube]vdg9gkmWsEA[/youtube]
The Cobra is in deep shit and most likely dead with just one mongoose. Hiss asss is grasss with more than one. Hass no chance at all.

Jan Steen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14596

Post by Jan Steen »

windy wrote:Maryam Namazie adds more common sense to the comments of her 'Report them!' post:
28. Maryam Namazie
August 12, 2013 at 9:08 pm (UTC 1)

I find some of the comments here really bizarre and don’t want to spend too much time getting bogged down with this tone of debate – which I find unhelpful – but I do want to make some general comments.

<snip>
*insert standard Jan Steen disclaimer about the dangers of the one party state and advocates thereof*
:lol:

It is not surprising that a communist has more common sense than your average FTB-style SJ warrior. Communists have more experience in taking concrete action. If you don't want to fail instantly at things like that you do need to take reality into account. A person like Namazie is therefore bound to be more realistic than, say, a typical Pharyngula commenter.

Still, I have no illusions what would happen if her Worker Communist Party (or was it the Communist Workers Party) were to take over Iran. Communist one-party states, of the kind she advocates, devolve inexorably into oppressive, usually totalitarian dictatorships. It is a matter of luck when the leader of such a state is not a genocidal maniac but merely a faceless, power-hungry technocrat.

So yes, people who in this day and age, with the lessons of the Twentieth Century in front of them, advocate a communist one-party state are in my opinion despicable and dangerous. Namazie is a typical wolf in sheep's clothing.

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14597

Post by katamari Damassi »

Lunatic Ana Mardol-who once asked someone not to use the word "chide" as it was a gendered slur-is on Shakesville accusing Elevator Gate of cyber stalking her for recording her tweets on Storify. Since the whole Twitter thing escapes me, does anyone know what she's talking about? She even discussed this with the CEO of Storify who tried to explain to her that twitter posts were public speech and that there was nothing he could do about it. Now the shakers want to gather up the torches and pitchforks against this guy.

http://www.shakesville.com/2013/08/when ... .html#more

SkepticalCat
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Location: Georgia, USA

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14598

Post by SkepticalCat »

Cold wrote:There's a Pharyngula Wiki?

Can these people be any more narcissistic?
If I remember correctly it was Nerd of Redhead who created it and/or did most of the work...(I may be mistaken).

There's even a 'Slimepit' page at the Pharyngula wiki; here's its text:
The slimepit was a series of threads on ERV which welcomed a handful of vocal misogynists, confessed trolls, and other lost souls. Slimepit trolls have invaded threads at other sites as well, including Butterflies and Wheels, Pharyngula, Furious Purpose, and Almost Diamonds. Most slimepit activity on ERV is contained on the thread "Periodic Table of Swearing," which has a function somewhat analogous to that of TET on Pharyngula.
Some commenters regarded as personae non gratae at Pharyngula, preferably with links demonstrating why:

bluharmony [1][2][3][4][5][6]
cthellis
DavidByron
dustbubble
EvilYeti
Franc Hoggle / probably felch.grogan
John C. Welch
John D
John Greg
Justicar [7]
Michael Kingsford Gray [8][9][10][11]
Munkhaus
Notung
0verlord
Phil Giordana, FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog [12][13]
Phyraxus
pornonimous / pornonymous / pornalysis
Prometheus
Rayshul
Rystefn
ScentedNectar
Spence
Tristan
TylerD

windy
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14599

Post by windy »

Kareem wrote:
windy wrote:Maryam Namazie adds more common sense to the comments of her 'Report them!' post:
Is she one of those FTBloggers who isn't really an Apluser? She makes too much sense for that group.
Correct, they're not big fans of each other

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14228

Even on FTB she would probably have been denounced by the commenters as a victim-blaming Islamophobic Dawkins-lover long ago, except she ticks way too many 'protected group' boxes for them to go after her outright.

Radical MRA Fuckwit

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14600

Post by Radical MRA Fuckwit »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Guest wrote:Nerd is clearly pleased with himself for coming up with 'radical MRA fuckwit' (but aren't all MRAs radical fuckwits by definition, Nerd? In which case, you've just used a pleonasm), as he blurts it out again:
Ha! Radical MRAs? We do not have any yet (not really). When we do get them, my guess is that they will come from the MGTOW segment and I expect them to outshine the FadFems.

If you think Nerd of Redhead is having an aneurysm now just wait for when that happens.

He will not know whether to shit of go blind.
LIAR

WE ARE EVERYWHERE HERE

WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN

real horrorshow
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Location: In a band of brigands.

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14601

Post by real horrorshow »

16bitheretic wrote:I don't wanna get too deep into this because I get ranty, but the types of ideology seen on the A+ forum and in the commentary at Pharyngula and Skepchick are denigrating to everyone, male and female, and typically revolve around suburban first world whining from very socially dysfunctional people. It is like stepping into an alternate reality when you encounter these types.
They're denigrating and degrading to the entire species! Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if other Primates started distancing themselves from homo sapiens based on A+ alone!

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14602

Post by katamari Damassi »

Whoops! I hadn't seen the above posts on the same subject.

Ä uest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14603

Post by Ä uest »

Amanda Marcotte, back in February, became upset when elevatorgate would storify her public tweets.

Storifying public tweets IS stalking and harassment according to Former SFWA President John Scalzi.

Because now everything is stalking and harassment.
You'll remember back a few days when Zvan became upset "we" were using freezepage.

Because now everything is stalking and harassment.

Everything is stalking and harassment.

dog puke
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14604

Post by dog puke »

nippletwister wrote:
I have some slight education in music history and theory, and I'm pretty sure most artists or at least art historians agree that what is now called "stealing" or "copyright infringement" is simply the way that the vast majority of art is and always has been created. Everyone takes from what has come before, hopefully adding to it and making it their own, relevant to new times and new audiences. There is nothing truly "original", there are only twelve notes, for fucks sake. Now, taking someone's exact chords, timing, lyrics, and calling it your own original is stealing....but some of what Led Zeppelin did (and what blues and folk artists do all the damn time since the dawn of man) is more of an "inspired by" sort of thing. A re-working, a re-imagining, sometimes bearing little resemblance to the earlier work.

Some artists even go so far as to say that extending copyright to the levels we have is closer to "stealing", as it pretends to ownership that is not real and chokes off the supply of material that can be incorporated into new works, generally for the benefit of non-producers, even long after the death of the "original" artist.
Yup, in fact, it was often expected of composers in the Baroque and Classical era to do that. The idea of copyright or "owned music" was unheard of. Most of Bach's work was signed SDG - soli dei gratia "Glory to God alone". And, that was for both secular and sacred music. (Beethoven and Romanticism brought many changes in that regard)

For a more modern example, look at the jazz world. It is expected that you will take existing tunes and put your stamp on them; everybody does it; everyone accepts this practice and expects it to be done. There are many named chord progressions used e.g. rhythm changes, etc., where the chord progressions are taken from a named source (in this case I Got Rhythm by Gershwin).

Many of the old blues tunes that the Stones, et al, covered, trace back to early blues players, but even then much of that 'original' material dated from earlier anonymous sources. Folk music was always thus.

I would type more but I have a hawt date with Rebecca Watson to prepare for.

:violin:

Ä uest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14605

Post by Ä uest »

katamari Damassi wrote:Lunatic Ana Mardol-who once asked someone not to use the word "chide" as it was a gendered slur-is on Shakesville accusing Elevator Gate of cyber stalking her for recording her tweets on Storify. Since the whole Twitter thing escapes me, does anyone know what she's talking about? She even discussed this with the CEO of Storify who tried to explain to her that twitter posts were public speech and that there was nothing he could do about it. Now the shakers want to gather up the torches and pitchforks against this guy.

http://www.shakesville.com/2013/08/when ... .html#more
I hope this gains traction, seriously. If explained well, and yeah, I know it won't be, it's so colossally stupid that it would help demonstrate what idiots these people are.


Garlic

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14607

Post by Garlic »

Because he feels he was successful and made it on his own, then all white men should be successful and make it on their own.

Where in the article does he say anything remotely like that?

What he's saying is that, all other things equal, things would have been harder for him, or for pretty much anyone, to reach social success if he had been black or female. Hard to argue with that IMO.

From my own totally scientific WAG estimate, 99% of people who dismiss the concept of privilege misunderstand it.

Tribble
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14608

Post by Tribble »

bovarchist wrote:Anybody seen this? Apparently, there's a term for sites like FTB.

http://www.edge.org/response-detail/23777
Excerpt:
It can be "social suicide" to criticize a silo from within the silo, while external criticism tends to bounce off, ignored. So silos tend to become hostile to dissent, empowering fanatics and power-seekers at the expense of the more moderate and the truth-seekers. Silos also alienate us from each other, even from friends and family members who don't share our assumptions, because it is too easy and fun to demonize the opposition from within a silo.
Yeah, that's exactly how the environment at Pharyngula and many of the FtB blogs went. And why I got out. I saw the writing on the wall as I didn't conform to many areas of the group think that was taking over, such as:.

I believe in due process. I don't believe in Star Chamber justice or secret courts or secret 'back-channel' lists or black-balling.

I don't believe private entities must grant 'freedom of speech.' That Uncommon Dissent silenced people was, in those days, evidence of their closed-mindedness and inability to handle the truth. Cue 2013 and the relatively common banning at FtB.

I don't believe in deference-to-religion type of accommodation, but I also don't believe that acting like a fucking asshole all the time is going to do much more for your cause than whip the worst of your fans into an asshole-frenzy. Shut-up and listen leads to 'fuck off, I'm leaving.'

Cunning Punt
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14609

Post by Cunning Punt »

Rope apologist wrote:You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.
Nerd's a fucking idiot. Anyone knows that the best way to determine Shermer's guilt is to throw him in a pond. If he sinks, he's innocent. If he floats, he a fucking rapist. QED.

Tribble
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14610

Post by Tribble »

SkepticalCat wrote:
Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.
Caine (who is indeed the very worst of the worst) is actually (she says) in her mid-50s, one of the older of those lunatics. She has apparently doxxed herself quite nicely at the "Pharyngula Wiki":

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Caine,_Fleur_du_mal
lol. You know she's going to accuse you of doxing her when she did it herself by her own actions. Like when Vacula pointed out whats-her-name publicly lists her goddamn address as part of her business in order to rebut her accusation that he was filing the counter-DMCA notice to get her address.

rayshul
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14611

Post by rayshul »

Garlic wrote:
Because he feels he was successful and made it on his own, then all white men should be successful and make it on their own.
Where in the article does he say anything remotely like that?

What he's saying is that, all other things equal, things would have been harder for him, or for pretty much anyone, to reach social success if he had been black or female. Hard to argue with that IMO.

From my own totally scientific WAG estimate, 99% of people who dismiss the concept of privilege misunderstand it.
IT'S SO HARD BEING BLACK AND FEMALE HAVE I MENTIONED THIS RECENTLY OMFG THE HARDSHIP

I fucking hate Scalzi, myself. :)

didymos
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14612

Post by didymos »

Rope apologist wrote:You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.
Nerd is the JoeG of Pharyngula (for those familiar with AtBC, Uncommon Descent, and the like).

Jan Steen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14613

Post by Jan Steen »

Cunning Punt wrote:
Rope apologist wrote:You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.
Nerd's a fucking idiot. Anyone knows that the best way to determine Shermer's guilt is to throw him in a pond. If he sinks, he's innocent. If he floats, he a fucking rapist. QED.
FTB have introduced a new kind of witch hunt: where the hunters are the witches.

dog puke
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14614

Post by dog puke »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
BillHamp wrote:
I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone mess up that phrase; they're at least a diamond dozen.

The correct phrase is deep-seated. There is no diciontary entry for deep-seeded. Unless you use the Urban Dictionary.
Irregardless, for all intensive purposes, there interchangeable.

yuk, yuk

Lsuoma
Fascist Tit
Posts: 11692
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Punggye-ri

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14615

Post by Lsuoma »

Cunning Punt wrote:
Rope apologist wrote:You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.
Nerd's a fucking idiot. Anyone knows that the best way to determine Shermer's guilt is to throw him in a pond. If he sinks, he's innocent. If he floats, he a fucking rapist. QED.
Er. Duck??

Skep tickle
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14616

Post by Skep tickle »

Gefan wrote:Denoument

Wherein:
Herr Meyer's hentai porn has trouble making it out of Berlin,.
There is trouble in the Intellectual Artillery Corps.
And we find out who's really responsible for the fall of National Social Justice-ism.

[youtube]5UDkKC2r6Ew[/youtube]

Okay, that's it for now. Partly, because I appear to have upset Skeptickle (who I admire) and partly because the SO has grown tired of hearing Bruno Ganz raving in the study.
Popping ahead to say: Hahaha! Another excellent one!

My comment after your last clip was meant to be read as: "Oh, stellar!!! :D "

Not as: "oh, stellar [/sarcasm] (not this again)"

:D

Cunning Punt
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14617

Post by Cunning Punt »

Jan Steen wrote:
Cunning Punt wrote:
Nerd's a fucking idiot. Anyone knows that the best way to determine Shermer's guilt is to throw him in a pond. If he sinks, he's innocent. If he floats, he a fucking rapist. QED.
FTB have introduced a new kind of witch hunt: where the hunters are the witches.
I guess it takes one to know one?

welch
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14618

Post by welch »

Lsuoma wrote:
welch wrote:
Gumby wrote:
Great tune. Zep was my favorite band for years, but nowadays I tend to listen to their tunes that haven't been killed to death on the radio for decades. This is one of them.
That's one of the reasons why Presence and III are my top albums of theres at the moment. But it changes. I also have a soft spot for really good Zep covers, like:

"Rock 'n Roll", Heart
"Misty Mountain Hop", 4 Non-Blondes
"Out on the Tiles", Blind Melon
"Dancin' Days", Stone Temple Pilots.
Dread Zeppelin (with Ed Zeppelin and Tortelvis) FTW!
Oh yeah, them. And Fred Zeppelin!

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14619

Post by katamari Damassi »

The shakers are just reveling in the threat narrative and swimming in the victim points Elevator Gate is providing them. They all say that EG is dangerous, but none of them say why or how, just that it's obvious and if you can't see it then you don't get it. That's fine except that they want Storify and even the FBI to take action against a guy who just archives their public speech on Storify.

Ä uest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14620

Post by Ä uest »

Garlic wrote:
Because he feels he was successful and made it on his own, then all white men should be successful and make it on their own.

Where in the article does he say anything remotely like that?

What he's saying is that, all other things equal, things would have been harder for him, or for pretty much anyone, to reach social success if he had been black or female. Hard to argue with that IMO.

From my own totally scientific WAG estimate, 99% of people who dismiss the concept of privilege misunderstand it.
He says:
You can lose playing on the lowest difficulty setting. The lowest difficulty setting is still the easiest setting to win on.
So while he does say straight white guys could lose at the game, he insists here, and throughout his piece that straight white guys have it the easiest setting to win on.

That's a stupid statement when you consider the overwhelming number of people of all any gender, sexual preference, or race including straight white guys that LOSE. FAR MORE WILL LOSE THAN WIN.

Whether its income, household ownership, being a wage slave, dying in an industrial accident, going off to war and not coming back, depression, suicide, etc. MOST PEOPLE LOSE.
Henry David Thoreau - "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."
I think that everyone has a bias, and I think Scalzi is biased by his well deserved success. But I think that success blinds him, and so my own judgment of what could cause a smart guy to say something I think is stupid is that he suffers from the Bootstrap Fallacy:
Because [as a straight white guy] he feels he was successful and made it on his own, then all white men should be successful and make it on their own.
This is similar to complaints about Tea Partiers and how bootstrappy they are, that is, somehow they made it without aid, therefore everyone else should be able to make it without aid.

It is wrong for the same reason: Scalzi and Tea Partiers are not everyone (or all straight white guys) and just because they think everyone should be able to make it, or that straight white guys have it easiest, doesn't mean that that is so. And even if it is so as a group measurement, does not mean that it is so even for the AVERAGE person. (See how the average salary of 100 men in a room when Gates and Buffet etc. are in the room too is not the same as the salary of the average man in that room.)

Jan Steen
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Posts: 3061
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14621

Post by Jan Steen »

Cunning Punt wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
Cunning Punt wrote:
Nerd's a fucking idiot. Anyone knows that the best way to determine Shermer's guilt is to throw him in a pond. If he sinks, he's innocent. If he floats, he a fucking rapist. QED.
FTB have introduced a new kind of witch hunt: where the hunters are the witches.
I guess it takes one to know one?
I'm told they can smell a witch from a mile away.

stupid_20something
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14622

Post by stupid_20something »

Jan Steen wrote:
FTB have introduced a new kind of witch hunt: where the hunters are the witches.
well that explains the group masturbation, the blood sacrifices, the incomprehensible gibbering chants and sexual fixation on woodland creatures.

Parody Accountant
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14623

Post by Parody Accountant »

http://i.imgur.com/QY88YjP.png

clownfall template just in case anyone wanted it.

welch
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14624

Post by welch »

Rope apologist wrote:You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.

Oh bless his heart.

BarnOwl
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14625

Post by BarnOwl »

Mykeru wrote:I like it:
Fascist (tit) fits with the downfall parodies and is "war" by another name.

Thoughts?
PëeZusdämmerung

FTBnarök

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14626

Post by Tribble »

Cold wrote:
SkepticalCat wrote:
Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.
Caine (who is indeed the very worst of the worst) is actually (she says) in her mid-50s, one of the older of those lunatics. She has apparently doxxed herself quite nicely at the "Pharyngula Wiki":

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Caine,_Fleur_du_mal
There's a Pharyngula Wiki?

Can these people be any more narcissistic?
It's like Conservapedia -- an alternate reality for ass-clowns who can't handle reality and think WAY to much of themselves. It's also a cult-like behavior and, I think, helps to support that FtB has many cultish aspects, though isn't a true cult in the sense of the term.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14627

Post by Cold »

didymos wrote:
Rope apologist wrote:You smart asses think that Nerd's such a fool. Well, he just provided incontrovertible proof that Shermer's guilty:
He’s giving prima facie evidence he is a bad guy, by not defending himself here, which he could do. But he has his lawyer attempt to intimidate PZ with threat of a lawsuit. Bullies are bullies, and that is why Jane Doe wants to remain anonymous.
Only a bully would defend himself using the law, instead of going onto a website known for the most egregious and spurious "arguments" (like this one) and bullshit "evidence."

Ha ha, QED.
Nerd is the JoeG of Pharyngula (for those familiar with AtBC, Uncommon Descent, and the like).
Lol that's pretty spot on. He's Joe with tits.

Whatever happened to that mental case John Kwok? Does he still occasionally post his ramblings at PT?

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14628

Post by welch »

Pitchguest wrote:
Badger3k wrote:I've tried to figure this out: PZ on @elevatorgate. MAybe it's just because I don't use twitter or storify, and couldn't care less if people copy what I make public or if they want to spam. Spam gets tossed out and ignored. Same as junk mail and junk phone calls - deleted off the machine.

PZ compares him to Mabus. Not sure on this. As far as I know, @elevatorgate never threatened anyone (could be wrong, as I don't follow him).

But this bit from John Scalzi (twice now, I suspect some kind of SJW or SJW friendly): (this is the whole quote that PZ quoted, linked in the original)
A Twitter and Storify user who goes by the handle “@elevatorGATE” is a well-known cyberstalker of women via social media. His latest method of doing this is to compile thousands of pieces on Storify, often including every single tweet sent by his chosen targets, and then publish them, which notifies the women in question that he had published yet another piece archiving their every word. After repeated complaints and requests for help, Storify temporarily deactivated the notification feature on his account, which doesn’t actually solve the problem.
In a conversation yesterday with Xavier Damman, the Storify CEO suggested that the women @elevatorGATE is targeting turn off all notifications from Storify, which essentially suggests that they withdraw from the medium if they don’t like being stalked, and which also wouldn’t solve the problem of this user archiving everything these women say. One of the users pointed out that this is very much like telling a woman who is being harassed via telephone to never answer the phone. It was at this point in the conversation that Damman went from passively enabling a stalker to actively assisting one. He tweeted, in response to the women, that they “…can’t do anything about that. It’s @elevatorgate’s right to quote public statements…”
Prior to this point in the conversation, the women had named their stalker, but not used the @ symbol in front of his username. You know enough about Twitter to know why that’s a big deal. Damman either carelessly or deliberately notified a man stalking multiple women that they were seeking some way to prevent him from continuing to harass them, and then claimed it was no big deal because anyone searching for the information would have been able to find it. But there’s a very big difference between information existing and that same information being directly brought to a person’s attention.
If you know much about stalking, you’ll know what happens next. @elevatorGATE has substantially stepped up his harassment of the women who had asked Damman for help. Men who follow him on both Storify and Twitter have been bombarding these women via Storify notifications and Tweets with additional harassment. He has also increased his harassment of known online associates of the women in question, making it difficult for them to seek out help or support from fear of his beginning to stalk their friends as well. It’s the reason I’m contacting you privately, via email, rather than via social media: I’m afraid. I don’t want to be added to his list of targets.
It sounds like this guy is doing the same thing as spamming. However I don't know what is being said, and whether it is harassment - whether he is manking personal suggestions, etc, or just spamming. I did notice the disconnect that we have been saying all along. There is a difference between things being brought to your attention and things that you must go to and look for yourself. That I agree with.

As for the rest, I really can't say. I have twitter but rarely use it, and in any case I have notifications turned off. The last thing I want to do is waste my time at work getting a bunch of tweets about where people are or what they are eating, or doing. If I want that, at that very minute, I'll call. Having grown up without that intrusion and pushing your personal life into the public, I can't understand the kids or adults who cannot be weaned away from their twitter/facebook/text/IM/whatever pacifier. What is so important that you need to be notified if someone mentions your name? What kind of ego is that - it doesn't seem like one that is very secure. I know I'm assigning motivations, but I just don't get it, and really, I'm not sure I want to. Hell, if everyone in the world wanted to talk about me, go ahead, I have no idea who you are so I don't care what you say.

Now, I will say if he's doing something illegal, then he should be stopped. I might think of more, but I have a Rifftrax Live event to go to, and gots to gets ready.
Posting this here, for posterity. A response to John Scalzi:
Isn’t this why Storify was created in the first place? To document conversations? Does the mere act of documenting — essentially keeping a history log — now constitute as harassment? And how does it enter into constituting as harassment again? This is very confusing.

Also, isn’t cyberstalking a crime? Don’t you have to have sufficient evidence to accuse someone of cyberstalking? If all he does is Storify their conversations but never actually takes part in the actual conversation, including tagging them, then he isn’t just keeping a log? For instance, if I were to Freezepage (or save) every single blog post you make, John, to hold and keep as evidence for something or other, but never actually posting a single comment on your blog, would that count as cyberstalking? Doesn’t that mean that pinging an article would serve as cyberstalking as well?

Finally, I can’t see where @elevatorgate is encouraging his followers to stalk and/or harass women. On his blog?

http://elevatorgate.wordpress.com/

Nope. Seems the last submission there was back in 2012. On his Storify account?

http://storify.com/ElevatorGATE/

Seems not. Can’t see a single reference to the encouraging of stalking and/or harassing women online.

Again, isn’t accusing someone of being a stalker (even a cyberstalker) a crime worthy of libel?

And again, why is documenting conversations on Twitter considered cyberstalking?
An addendum to the post: PZ compares him to David Markuze, and claims @elevatorgate hates women (without evidence, obviously, par for the course). Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Mabus' shtick that he injected himself into every conversation and created sockpuppet upon sockpuppet to weather the incoming bans? Doesn't @elevatorgate just Storify people's conversation on Twitter, essentially keeping a log, but not actually participating himself? Wouldn't that make him nothing at all like Mabus, or am I wrong?

As for his claims that @elevatorgate hates women, wasn't it @elevatorgate who kept a log on the bullying of Sara Mayhew, Miranda Celeste Hale and Harriet Hall? Is that what hating women signifies?

You already know the answer to all this. PZ knows his fans won't think for themselves. He also knows they need an enemy to be focused on. EG doesn't play by PZ's rules, and he can be a twat at times, so he's the perfect enemy. No matter what he does he's wrong. He's never going to be anywhere they are in person, so there's no worry of having to deal with him face to face.

So, they demonize him because they can. I think he figured it out a while ago, and ignores them, and cheerfully goes on with his thing. He could care less about what they think of him, and he's good about playing by the rules, so they can't do shit about him.

But yeah, basically, they're playing the ophie song: YOU READ WHAT I WRITE, HARRAAAAAAAAASSSSMMMMEEEENNNNNNT!!!!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14629

Post by welch »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Cold wrote:I know I already mentioned this but does anyone else get the feeling that some of these people are probably very mentally ill? Whenever I see a Caine post I always imagine an obese autistic 30-year old who lives in her parents' basement and sits at the computer all day, defending PZ's blog from rape apologists and drawing pictures of animals fucking each other to post on her DeviantArt page.

It would be fascinating to study these people in real life and find out what motivates them to write the way they do.
Last I heard is that Caine lives in Dakota out in the sticks. That is supposed to explain it all.
North Dakota actually, and as all of N.D. is the sticks, you're being redundant there :-)


(actually, it's a flat, frozen shithole. But other than that, it sucks.)

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14630

Post by another lurker »

dog puke wrote:
nippletwister wrote:
I have some slight education in music history and theory, and I'm pretty sure most artists or at least art historians agree that what is now called "stealing" or "copyright infringement" is simply the way that the vast majority of art is and always has been created. Everyone takes from what has come before, hopefully adding to it and making it their own, relevant to new times and new audiences. There is nothing truly "original", there are only twelve notes, for fucks sake. Now, taking someone's exact chords, timing, lyrics, and calling it your own original is stealing....but some of what Led Zeppelin did (and what blues and folk artists do all the damn time since the dawn of man) is more of an "inspired by" sort of thing. A re-working, a re-imagining, sometimes bearing little resemblance to the earlier work.

Some artists even go so far as to say that extending copyright to the levels we have is closer to "stealing", as it pretends to ownership that is not real and chokes off the supply of material that can be incorporated into new works, generally for the benefit of non-producers, even long after the death of the "original" artist.
Yup, in fact, it was often expected of composers in the Baroque and Classical era to do that. The idea of copyright or "owned music" was unheard of. Most of Bach's work was signed SDG - soli dei gratia "Glory to God alone". And, that was for both secular and sacred music. (Beethoven and Romanticism brought many changes in that regard)

For a more modern example, look at the jazz world. It is expected that you will take existing tunes and put your stamp on them; everybody does it; everyone accepts this practice and expects it to be done. There are many named chord progressions used e.g. rhythm changes, etc., where the chord progressions are taken from a named source (in this case I Got Rhythm by Gershwin).

Many of the old blues tunes that the Stones, et al, covered, trace back to early blues players, but even then much of that 'original' material dated from earlier anonymous sources. Folk music was always thus.

I would type more but I have a hawt date with Rebecca Watson to prepare for.

:violin:

The fashion industry would cease to exist if not for the 'borrowing' of ideas.

Guest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14631

Post by Guest »

So @elevatorGATE is "obsessed", "abusive", "harassing", "stalking", etc. for documenting and screen capping social media posts:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... tes-abuse/

But when FTB does the same thing:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... y-is-that/

It's okay?

Note these were posted on the same day. The cognitive dissonance is impressive.

Ä uest

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14632

Post by Ä uest »

John Scalzi:
Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/10/pe ... y-out.html
Charles Bukowski:
In 1969, publisher John Martin offered to pay Charles Bukowski $100 each and every month for the rest of his life, on one condition: that he quit his job at the post office and become a writer. 49-year-old Bukowski did just that, and in 1971 his first novel, Post Office, was published by Martin's Black Sparrow Press.

15 years later, Bukowski wrote the following letter to Martin and spoke of his joy at having escaped full time employment.
8-12-86

Hello John:

Thanks for the good letter. I don't think it hurts, sometimes, to remember where you came from. You know the places where I came from. Even the people who try to write about that or make films about it, they don't get it right. They call it "9 to 5." It's never 9 to 5, there's no free lunch break at those places, in fact, at many of them in order to keep your job you don't take lunch. Then there's OVERTIME and the books never seem to get the overtime right and if you complain about that, there's another sucker to take your place.

You know my old saying, "Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the colors."

And what hurts is the steadily diminishing humanity of those fighting to hold jobs they don't want but fear the alternative worse. People simply empty out. They are bodies with fearful and obedient minds. The color leaves the eye. The voice becomes ugly. And the body. The hair. The fingernails. The shoes. Everything does.

As a young man I could not believe that people could give their lives over to those conditions. As an old man, I still can't believe it. What do they do it for? Sex? TV? An automobile on monthly payments? Or children? Children who are just going to do the same things that they did?

Early on, when I was quite young and going from job to job I was foolish enough to sometimes speak to my fellow workers: "Hey, the boss can come in here at any moment and lay all of us off, just like that, don't you realize that?"

They would just look at me. I was posing something that they didn't want to enter their minds.

Now in industry, there are vast layoffs (steel mills dead, technical changes in other factors of the work place). They are layed off by the hundreds of thousands and their faces are stunned:

"I put in 35 years..."

"It ain't right..."

"I don't know what to do..."

They never pay the slaves enough so they can get free, just enough so they can stay alive and come back to work. I could see all this. Why couldn't they? I figured the park bench was just as good or being a barfly was just as good. Why not get there first before they put me there? Why wait?

I just wrote in disgust against it all, it was a relief to get the shit out of my system. And now that I'm here, a so-called professional writer, after giving the first 50 years away, I've found out that there are other disgusts beyond the system.

I remember once, working as a packer in this lighting fixture company, one of the packers suddenly said: "I'll never be free!"

One of the bosses was walking by (his name was Morrie) and he let out this delicious cackle of a laugh, enjoying the fact that this fellow was trapped for life.

So, the luck I finally had in getting out of those places, no matter how long it took, has given me a kind of joy, the jolly joy of the miracle. I now write from an old mind and an old body, long beyond the time when most men would ever think of continuing such a thing, but since I started so late I owe it to myself to continue, and when the words begin to falter and I must be helped up stairways and I can no longer tell a bluebird from a paperclip, I still feel that something in me is going to remember (no matter how far I'm gone) how I've come through the murder and the mess and the moil, to at least a generous way to die.

To not to have entirely wasted one's life seems to be a worthy accomplishment, if only for myself.

yr boy,

Hank

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14633

Post by welch »

SkepticalCat wrote:
Cold wrote:There's a Pharyngula Wiki?

Can these people be any more narcissistic?
If I remember correctly it was Nerd of Redhead who created it and/or did most of the work...(I may be mistaken).

There's even a 'Slimepit' page at the Pharyngula wiki; here's its text:
The slimepit was a series of threads on ERV which welcomed a handful of vocal misogynists, confessed trolls, and other lost souls. Slimepit trolls have invaded threads at other sites as well, including Butterflies and Wheels, Pharyngula, Furious Purpose, and Almost Diamonds. Most slimepit activity on ERV is contained on the thread "Periodic Table of Swearing," which has a function somewhat analogous to that of TET on Pharyngula.
Some commenters regarded as personae non gratae at Pharyngula, preferably with links demonstrating why:

bluharmony [1][2][3][4][5][6]
cthellis
DavidByron
dustbubble
EvilYeti
Franc Hoggle / probably felch.grogan
John C. Welch
John D
John Greg
Justicar [7]
Michael Kingsford Gray [8][9][10][11]
Munkhaus
Notung
0verlord
Phil Giordana, FCD, aka Schroedinger's Dog [12][13]
Phyraxus
pornonimous / pornonymous / pornalysis
Prometheus
Rayshul
Rystefn
ScentedNectar
Spence
Tristan
TylerD
OH yeah! I had a lot of fun with them one day. Literally, one day, for about 3 hours.

I don't often troll, but when I do, I troll at high speed:

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Specia ... Johncwelch

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14634

Post by real horrorshow »

Any one peckish? I've been over to Scalzi's blog to pick some low-hanging fruit:

Scalzi claims @elevatorGATE is violating the Storify TOS as follows:

http://i.imgur.com/kXDzEhB.jpg
Because I Am Not A Lawyer but, archiving people's public writings is like totes illegal dude

His comment policy is this:

http://i.imgur.com/vyIUWLR.jpg

And the link there about what will get you banned leads to this recent popular favourite. So we know what we're dealing with here.


Baboon ethics are soon on display:

http://i.imgur.com/A0cJyon.jpg
Dontcha just luv 'im?

Also, baboon logic:
http://i.imgur.com/LFbNm4N.jpg
Where can I go to complain about his service which I do not and will never use?

And the very Whitest of Knights:
http://i.imgur.com/8oe9QPh.jpg

Almost certainly more to come.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14635

Post by welch »

Garlic wrote:
Because he feels he was successful and made it on his own, then all white men should be successful and make it on their own.

Where in the article does he say anything remotely like that?

What he's saying is that, all other things equal, things would have been harder for him, or for pretty much anyone, to reach social success if he had been black or female. Hard to argue with that IMO.

From my own totally scientific WAG estimate, 99% of people who dismiss the concept of privilege misunderstand it.
Given how much time Scalzi spent explaining what he really meant in that article, I'd say he's in that group.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14636

Post by Tigzy »

From Peez's @Elevatorgate post:
I’ve compared him to Dennis Markuze before, and it’s exactly the same: using internet protocols and an abundance of free time to constantly harass people he doesn’t like with pointless, content-free noise. The offender goes by the pseudonym “@elevatorGATE” on twitter (right away, you can tell what inspired him), and he’s been doing this for years now, obsessively dunning his targets with noise. There are some differences: Markuze aims his vitriol at skeptics who questioned the existence of paranormal powers.

@elevatorGATE hates women.
Peez in the comments:
He’s doing hundreds of storifies every day. I’m not kidding when I say he’s got the same mental illness as Dennis Markuze — this is a guy whose useless life is fully absorbed with tracking and echoing the words of people he hates.
As if the Shermer incident wasn't demonstration enough - Peez, you are such a fucking mong.

Laughable, feeble little man. In fact, Peez, if I ever saw you in real life, I think I might just slap you on the head rapidly and repeatedly, like what Benny Hill used to do to the little bald old man. Slap-slap-slappity-slap, right on top of that nub-like noggin. Even if you tried to waddle away, I reckon I'd still be there, following you around, slapping away.

I mean, why not, eh Peez? Now that the vapidity oozes openly from your pores like the porcine sweat-on you get when Watson's pheromones are fugging up the air, what's the point of responding to you in any way other than to get some lulz? Not that I could go so far as to consider you Atheism's court jester, given that Ye Olde Jesters served an important function in keeping their feudal overlords aware of their follies. If anything, it's this place that has done a better job of providing the necessary Lords of Misrule. Whereas you, Peez, vacuous, vindictive blot that you are, have regaled us all in no manner other than that of a bloated, fulminating, disingenuous robber-baron.

And a deluded one, at that, lording over what you believe to be the strong ramparts of your mighty fortress Pharyngula, when it is apparent to all but you and your sycophants that you are a toad squatting upon a flyblown dunghill.

So I do indeed hope that Shermer takes you to the cleaners, not so much out of spite, but because of the beautiful irony that you'd have escaped your fate were it not for a little skepticism on your part. Hell, it might even get me back into church.

Speaking of which, I think the famous words of another self-righteous, barbarous, angry puritan might be in order:
'You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately ... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!'
So yeah. Bugger off, Peez. A man, after all, does good business when he does away with a turd. (That one was Edward I, I think)

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14637

Post by welch »

Jan Steen wrote:
Cunning Punt wrote:
Nerd's a fucking idiot. Anyone knows that the best way to determine Shermer's guilt is to throw him in a pond. If he sinks, he's innocent. If he floats, he a fucking rapist. QED.
FTB have introduced a new kind of witch hunt: where the hunters are the witches.
[youtube]CmPNuruWMTA[/youtube]

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14638

Post by real horrorshow »

rayshul wrote: IT'S SO HARD BEING BLACK AND FEMALE HAVE I MENTIONED THIS RECENTLY OMFG THE HARDSHIP

I fucking hate Scalzi, myself. :)
You 'shut and listen' rayshul! Having recently popped out your second and third white male off-spring, you are clearly not only a gender-traitor but a race-traitor as well!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14639

Post by real horrorshow »

Lsuoma wrote:
welch wrote:
Gumby wrote:
That's one of the reasons why Presence and III are my top albums of theres at the moment. But it changes. I also have a soft spot for really good Zep covers, like:

"Rock 'n Roll", Heart
"Misty Mountain Hop", 4 Non-Blondes
"Out on the Tiles", Blind Melon
"Dancin' Days", Stone Temple Pilots.
Dread Zeppelin (with Ed Zeppelin and Tortelvis) FTW!
Oh yeah, them. And Fred Zeppelin!
I favour Hayseed Dixie myself:

[youtube]pST4tHrc6Q4[/youtube]

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#14640

Post by Tribble »

Cold wrote:
Lol that's pretty spot on. He's Joe with tits.

Whatever happened to that mental case John Kwok? Does he still occasionally post his ramblings at PT?
Isn't Kwok the one who demands a camera for some reason? And is blabbing on about cameras? I went back there a few days ago and went through a couple of threads. I think he's still there with a new handle and is still demanding a camera.

Locked