Bleeding from the Bunghole

[deLurch]

To resurrect the abortion topic for a moment

Ahem... you can fling your fetuses here.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=362

[Søren Lilholt]

Seeing as you're on the subject of gaming, can I ask - is MGS5 any good? I was put off by the promotional video from a couple of years ago, which suggested it was a more Assassin's Creedish type thing (prefer the stealth element, see). Cheers.

[Søren Lilholt]

Yeah, because directly criticizing Watson always ends so well. She's such a reasonable person, obviously she would take the criticism to heart, or calmly explain her side of the story. Wouldn't be any manufactured outrage and self-victimization, nope, that's totally not her modus operandi.

I see what you did there.

[Søren Lilholt]

I found the Caine "I am one stepped-on-toe away from mass murder" thing pretty shocking. But this comment on PZ Meyers's blog is, I think, absolutely disgusting. They call the 'Pit out for using nasty words, like 'cunt', and then they go and make fucking bizarre, creepy comments like this.

So, Meyers has a post about Ray Comfort; you know, one of the usual hard targets he goes in for, like an atheist Chuck Norris. Comfort apparently is going to be on a Uni campus, and Meyers is requesting people to descend upon the campus to argue with the creationist. This commenter has a fear of being filmed by the Comforter. Why?
http://i.imgur.com/wRNaVHH.png

Now, what kind of sick fucking freak, when tasked to imagine something Ray Comfort would or could edit them to appear to say, comes up with "Eleven year old pussies taste the best"?

Fuck me, these people are fucking psycopathic monsters.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-692485

I don't know, it read to me like he was just saying Ray Comfort could edit a video to maliciously and falsely paint him in a bad light (cf that 'Dawkins stumped by creationists' vid) not that he would actually say anything bad per se?

[acathode]

OK, OK, I must curmodgeonly admit defeat. There have, apparently, been some games, other than just crackerjack boxes paint-by-numbers tiddly-winkers, right?, made and published, successfully, over the last few years.

Now, as I've never heard of them (except Minecraft, which like one other commenter, I too do not give a tinker's fart for), could someone PM me some links to them, please and thank you.

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

The quality in Dust: An Elysian Tail is pretty staggering actually, and that whole game is, save for the music and the VA, a complete one man job. Made by a animator, who wanted to make a game, so he sat down and learned how to code, and then spent 3½ years making a insanely well crafted game. I'm not a big fan of the "furry" style, but there's just no denying the sheer talent and quality that's displayed in that game. I'd also certainly say that it's a "visually brilliant game", it graphical quality easily rivals the quality of similar titles developed by big developers.

Of course, yes, there are certain things that small budget indie devs can't do... but so what? They simply work around those limitations, and make games that are both economically successful AND innovative, interesting, still look good, and that are hugely influential. Take a look at Braid, Magicka, Bastion, Trine, Don't Starve, Limbo, and a ton of others. The indie gaming scene is currently exploding, and they are making some really brilliant stuff.

[Wooster]

I don't think too many pro-choice advocates would argue with the proposition that they are defending the bodily autonomy of women, preventing them from having to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term .
The pro-lifers might well summarize their objective as the defense of the life of the fetus.
Now, suppose someone were to develop a medical procedure where the fetus is removed from the mother and then kept alive until it can be brought to term in a surrogate or an artificial incubator.
In theory, everybody's happy, right?
Back to the lab.

That is a really interesting thought experiment, which will take a lot of thought!

[Trophy]

Now, suppose someone were to develop a medical procedure where the fetus is removed from the mother and then kept alive until it can be brought to term in a surrogate or an artificial incubator.
In theory, everybody's happy, right?

Mmmmm, probably not.

It definitely would not make the pro-choice people happy and for good reasons. The clear cut case is when a woman is pregnant due to rape. She has the right to get rid of the embryo. But I would argue same thing applies to any early term abortion, although those cases are less clear cut. Starting from the 2nd trimester, the debate becomes icky and I rather not touch it :D.

[Dick Strawkins]

I don't think too many pro-choice advocates would argue with the proposition that they are defending the bodily autonomy of women, preventing them from having to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term .
The pro-lifers might well summarize their objective as the defense of the life of the fetus.
Now, suppose someone were to develop a medical procedure where the fetus is removed from the mother and then kept alive until it can be brought to term in a surrogate or an artificial incubator.
In theory, everybody's happy, right?
Back to the lab.

That is a really interesting thought experiment, which will take a lot of thought!

It's not that far removed from the current situation with in-vitro fertilization/'test-tube babies'.
That procedure usually results in many more fertilized embryos than can be implanted.
As far as I can tell, there isn't a long queue of prolifers offering up their wombs in order to save these 'babies'.

[Linus]

On Aug 28, Jen McCreight blogged about her suffering from debilitating anxiety when using the telephone— which is so severe that she describes it as “mental illness”.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... ng-device/

She listed six symptoms as bullet points, with effects ranging from trivial to life-stunting. For example, she is thrown completely off her game a simple question such as, “Would you like flour or corn tortillas?”. This problem caused her to resign a job and even prevented her from obtaining a therapist for the problem, until she could find a therapist who would book an appointment using only email.

Her post yielded 87 replies.
I predicted Jen’s disease would spread like wildfire among the hypochondriac Munchausens of the FtB Special Victims Unit. To test my hypothesis, I read each numbered reply and have excerpted statements indicating those who say they share Jen’s serious telephone ailment.

These are excerpts from the first 45 comments:
(snipped by me for brevity)

How do these people function??? I mean, a telephone conversation is more distressing than a face-to-face??

I'm much more comfortable face to face or using written communication than talking on the phone. No idea why. I can handle the phone, but I don't really care for it.

[another lurker]

I don't think too many pro-choice advocates would argue with the proposition that they are defending the bodily autonomy of women, preventing them from having to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term .
The pro-lifers might well summarize their objective as the defense of the life of the fetus.
Now, suppose someone were to develop a medical procedure where the fetus is removed from the mother and then kept alive until it can be brought to term in a surrogate or an artificial incubator.
In theory, everybody's happy, right?
Back to the lab.

That is a really interesting thought experiment, which will take a lot of thought!

It's not that far removed from the current situation with in-vitro fertilization/'test-tube babies'.
That procedure usually results in many more fertilized embryos than can be implanted.
As far as I can tell, there isn't a long queue of prolifers offering up their wombs in order to save these 'babies'.

Yes, I am reading one such debate right now, and the pro-lifer in question who keeps saying 'give the gift of life' ' stop being so selfish' 'don't kill your kids' etc etc. says she will not 'inconvenience' herself by gestating an ivf embryo. An ivf embryo that she considers to be the equivalent of a baby. Someone asked her, what if that baby was left alongside the road? Would you save it? She says of course she would...but the ivf embryo is not her responsibility. It is the responsibility of it's parents. All embryos are the 'responsibility' of the parents - even if the 'parent' happens to be a victim of rape.

So in this particular pro-lifer's mind, what it comes down to is, if a woman is pregnant with an embryo, even if it is against her will, that women is automatically a mother, and giving it life is her 'responsibility' and anything else is just selfish. It is quite baffling as to why this particular pro-lifer is refusing to gestate these ivf embryos, because she keeps saying that pregnancy cures all auto-immune diseases, and makes women healthier than they were before being pregnant. Yet she won't donate her own body to the cause, because 'parents have a responsibility to their children.'

[Linus]

You seem to be forgetting the Grotty Christina fucking herself up the arse with a dildo video (now I wish I could forget it).

Wait....

Really?

Are you sure you aren't mixing up G. Christina with The Amazing Atheist and dildo with banana?

[Trophy]

You seem to be forgetting the Grotty Christina fucking herself up the arse with a dildo video (now I wish I could forget it).

Wait....

Really?

Are you sure you aren't mixing up G. Christina with The Amazing Atheist and dildo with banana?

Banana or hot oil?

[Badger3k]

Seeing as you're on the subject of gaming, can I ask - is MGS5 any good? I was put off by the promotional video from a couple of years ago, which suggested it was a more Assassin's Creedish type thing (prefer the stealth element, see). Cheers.

Everything I saw makes me say the game will rock, but I loved MGS4 (which is the only one I have played) - half-hour cutscenes and all. The stealth parts were kept it tense, but I liked the action as well. Different people like different things, though, so whether you would like it - I imagine there is quite a bit of stealth (there was in 4).

In keeping with the theme - will there be another "hot coffee" - no, not in an elevator, but a rape scene (probably as an environmental effect/scene ala red dead redemption) in GTA V.

Also, does anybody else think that Anita S should be looking for a way to the center of the Earth? Everytime I see her name...

[another lurker]

Yes, I am reading one such debate right now, and the pro-lifer in question who keeps saying 'give the gift of life' ' stop being so selfish' 'don't kill your kids' etc etc. says she will not 'inconvenience' herself by gestating an ivf embryo. An ivf embryo that she considers to be the equivalent of a baby. Someone asked her, what if that baby was left alongside the road? Would you save it? She says of course she would...but the ivf embryo is not her responsibility. It is the responsibility of it's parents. All embryos are the 'responsibility' of the parents - even if the 'parent' happens to be a victim of rape.

So in this particular pro-lifer's mind, what it comes down to is, if a woman is pregnant with an embryo, even if it is against her will, that women is automatically a mother, and giving it life is her 'responsibility' and anything else is just selfish. It is quite baffling as to why this particular pro-lifer is refusing to gestate these ivf embryos, because she keeps saying that pregnancy cures all auto-immune diseases, and makes women healthier than they were before being pregnant. Yet she won't donate her own body to the cause, because 'parents have a responsibility to their children.'

Oh, forgot to add, I came across a pro-lifer who argued that life spent in a test tube was better than no life at all. Yes. For realz. It's easy to assume that such people are simply trolls, but Jesse Powell TWRA is proof that crazy can be completely serious.

[Linus]

Yes, I am reading one such debate right now, and the pro-lifer in question who keeps saying 'give the gift of life' ' stop being so selfish' 'don't kill your kids' etc etc. says she will not 'inconvenience' herself by gestating an ivf embryo. An ivf embryo that she considers to be the equivalent of a baby. Someone asked her, what if that baby was left alongside the road? Would you save it? She says of course she would...but the ivf embryo is not her responsibility. It is the responsibility of it's parents. All embryos are the 'responsibility' of the parents - even if the 'parent' happens to be a victim of rape.

So in this particular pro-lifer's mind, what it comes down to is, if a woman is pregnant with an embryo, even if it is against her will, that women is automatically a mother, and giving it life is her 'responsibility' and anything else is just selfish. It is quite baffling as to why this particular pro-lifer is refusing to gestate these ivf embryos, because she keeps saying that pregnancy cures all auto-immune diseases, and makes women healthier than they were before being pregnant. Yet she won't donate her own body to the cause, because 'parents have a responsibility to their children.'

Oh, forgot to add, I came across a pro-lifer who argued that life spent in a test tube was better than no life at all. Yes. For realz. It's easy to assume that such people are simply trolls, but Jesse Powell TWRA is proof that crazy can be completely serious.

Reminds me of some of the arguments I've had with anti-vegans.

[16bitheretic]

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

Those two games probably cost at least $50 million to make. The cost of creating the large-scale $60 releases that are considered "blockbuster" titles has shot up drastically in the last decade, as some of those games have several hundred people working on them. One of the gaming blogs I read posted that the newly released Grand Theft Auto was rumored to have cost their publisher over $130 million.

It's possible to do something impressive on a smaller budget, like Dark Souls, but even then that game's budget and technical design would still bee too much for a few people in a basement.

For anyone interested in seeing what the development of an independent game is like, there's a movie on Netflix called Indie Game: The Movie. It's a documentary that shows the creation of Super Meat Boy and FEZ. Quite an interesting look at the melodrama behind the scenes of independent games studios that are making an all-or-nothing bet on one game to either sustain their ambitions to enter the games industry or end up sending them back to the land of flipping burgers at a "real job".

[16bitheretic]

I found the Caine "I am one stepped-on-toe away from mass murder" thing pretty shocking. But this comment on PZ Meyers's blog is, I think, absolutely disgusting. They call the 'Pit out for using nasty words, like 'cunt', and then they go and make fucking bizarre, creepy comments like this.

So, Meyers has a post about Ray Comfort; you know, one of the usual hard targets he goes in for, like an atheist Chuck Norris. Comfort apparently is going to be on a Uni campus, and Meyers is requesting people to descend upon the campus to argue with the creationist. This commenter has a fear of being filmed by the Comforter. Why?
http://i.imgur.com/wRNaVHH.png

Now, what kind of sick fucking freak, when tasked to imagine something Ray Comfort would or could edit them to appear to say, comes up with "Eleven year old pussies taste the best"?

Fuck me, these people are fucking psycopathic monsters.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-692485

I don't know, it read to me like he was just saying Ray Comfort could edit a video to maliciously and falsely paint him in a bad light (cf that 'Dawkins stumped by creationists' vid) not that he would actually say anything bad per se?

- As anyone who's seen 180 or Evolution vs God knows, Ray Comfort is the master of selective quoting and using stupid "gotcha" wordplay to make his on-camera subjects look like idiots. He's part of the sleaziest tier of religious apologists (alongside the Hovinds or Sye Ten Bruggencate) who rely on such tactics to avoid real debate or discussion.

- However, Francisco Bacopa doesn't need Comfort's editing to say crazy & stupid shit. They do quite well on that front all by themselves. And I can say that without any fear because I don't live in southeast Texas so apparently Francisco won't be able track me down to vandalize my shit with butterfly paintings.

Wait...I don't live anywhere near the homicidal tendencies poster in Pharyngula's comments section, do I? :shock:

[BarnOwl]

Reminds me of some of the arguments I've had with anti-vegans.

Anti-vegans? I can see people objecting to a vegan diet for themselves, but why should it matter to them whether others adopt a vegan diet?

As an aside, I just ordered the Forks Over Knives DVD. Most of my meals are vegan, and I've eschewed overly processed foods for many years now, so it might be somewhat preaching to the choir, but it looked like an interesting documentary.

[mary (abbie's ilk)]

Everybody is ignoring the most positive result of all these abortions. Less children, that's got to be a good thing. Horrible little fuckers.

yes, that will help with overpopulation..

[Richard Dworkins]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

Considering EA's marketing and attitude over the years, especially the last few, I'm stunned at how her supposed ideological stance vanishes when money comes into play. I'm guessing giving a sinecure to a notorious whiner is cheaper than paying for sustained and aggressive marketing. Good way to "silence the women" if you think about it. Fling some cash at them and see how quickly they'll dance for you.

[katamari Damassi]

Reminds me of some of the arguments I've had with anti-vegans.

Anti-vegans? I can see people objecting to a vegan diet for themselves, but why should it matter to them whether others adopt a vegan diet?

As an aside, I just ordered the Forks Over Knives DVD. Most of my meals are vegan, and I've eschewed overly processed foods for many years now, so it might be somewhat preaching to the choir, but it looked like an interesting documentary.

I'd be curious to hear what you think about it. My friends wife(whom I refer to as "Vegan Nazi" because she considers it her job to judge what everyone else eats, including my 94 year-old father in declining health, "Well if he would just go vegan...")swears by that movie, and Food Inc. The problem is that T. Colin Campbell is one of the movie's producers and I find him to be rather suspect. Of course I find most of the vegan evangelists suspect; Dean Ornish(fundamentalist Hindu convert), John McDougal, and that doctor from the Cleveland Clinic whose name escapes me at the moment are all part of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which is a PETA front group. These doctors prioritize animal rights over human health but they're dishonest about it. They say that eating animal products is bad for you because they think it should be bad for you, at least karmically bad. Needless to say I have difficulty trusting the lot.

[ccdimage]

Reminds me of some of the arguments I've had with anti-vegans.

Anti-vegans? I can see people objecting to a vegan diet for themselves, but why should it matter to them whether others adopt a vegan diet?

As an aside, I just ordered the Forks Over Knives DVD. Most of my meals are vegan, and I've eschewed overly processed foods for many years now, so it might be somewhat preaching to the choir, but it looked like an interesting documentary.

Food morals are one of the best displays of subjective morality. Peoples food morals shift about all the time and the most pretentious vegan can change their morals at the smell of a bacon sandwich.
The only food moral that I have been able to maintain is - You should not waste food.
I think that it is possible to make a good argument for cannibalism being morally right. I have seen an argument for eating endangered animals(, which I personally don't think it is entierly valid)!
My position is that you can eat what you like, but I usually take an Anti-vegan position because vegans seem to think they have some higher functioning moral compass that other people should follow.

[Tribble]

I have heard that some men prefer playing female chars - especially in relation to the Tomb Raider series, because, and I paraphrase "I would rather look at a cute female ass all day long."

True story. Heard it myself.

Yeah, I generally think that's a young-man, full-of-crap answer. People like to gender-bend because its' fun for both sexes (women do it too). I know more hard-core, male-power-gamers who like to play 'dress up' with their female characters and spend most of the money they earn on different outfits. And they're not necessarily even 'sexy' outfits. Just a wide variety of outfits.

So, while I've heard the excuse, what I've seen, for all their macho talk (at least with the guys), is that it's not much about the pixelated asses and is much more about playing dress-up. Something that, as boys, they weren't/aren't 'allowed' to do without sever social consequences in the real world.

[Parody Accountant]

<snip>

For anyone interested in seeing what the development of an independent game is like, there's a movie on Netflix called Indie Game: The Movie. It's a documentary that shows the creation of Super Meat Boy and FEZ. Quite an interesting look at the melodrama behind the scenes of independent games studios that are making an all-or-nothing bet on one game to either sustain their ambitions to enter the games industry or end up sending them back to the land of flipping burgers at a "real job".

Awesome. Thanks for the recommendation - it's queued up now.

On the indie music side, a similar dichotomy can be seen in the amazing documentary, Dig!. It features two amazing bands - friends, then rivals - that end up in completely different states. The Brian Jonestown Massacre (imho criminally underrated) and The Dandy Warhols - 1 and 1/2 hit wonders from the 90's.

This one gets intimate, explosive, hilarious, and ultimately bitter - no good guys, just good music.

[youtube]dUZDSzE3qIQ[/youtube]

FYI - you might recognize the theme song from Boardwalk Empire. The full version (with lyrics) is amazing.

"We don't want you to be yourself/
  We want you to free yourself"

[youtube]jJDq4UdESno[/youtube]

[Parody Accountant]

I said 'amazing' 3 times in that last post. When I reread it, I was amazed at how annoying that was. My writing is like crayola on a kid's menu, but still unable to find its way through a maze.

[BarnOwl]

I'd be curious to hear what you think about it. My friends wife(whom I refer to as "Vegan Nazi" because she considers it her job to judge what everyone else eats, including my 94 year-old father in declining health, "Well if he would just go vegan...")swears by that movie, and Food Inc. The problem is that T. Colin Campbell is one of the movie's producers and I find him to be rather suspect. Of course I find most of the vegan evangelists suspect; Dean Ornish(fundamentalist Hindu convert), John McDougal, and that doctor from the Cleveland Clinic whose name escapes me at the moment are all part of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, which is a PETA front group. These doctors prioritize animal rights over human health but they're dishonest about it. They say that eating animal products is bad for you because they think it should be bad for you, at least karmically bad. Needless to say I have difficulty trusting the lot.

I'm very wary of people who push their dietary manifestos, vegan or otherwise, on others. A mostly vegan diet works for me in terms of maintaining a healthy weight and activity level, but that doesn't mean it would work for others. It also fits with my views on environmental issues and sustainability - that's where I was hoping the documentary would provide some insights or information, though it may very well be a PCRM vegan evangelical screed. We'll see!

I think my career as a cancer researcher working with animal models for inherited tumor syndromes has eliminated the karma argument. I also knit with a lot of animal fibers (including dog hair, which is not intentional).

[Richard Dworkins]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

Considering EA's marketing and attitude over the years, especially the last few, I'm stunned at how her supposed ideological stance vanishes when money comes into play. I'm guessing giving a sinecure to a notorious whiner is cheaper than paying for sustained and aggressive marketing. Good way to "silence the women" if you think about it. Fling some cash at them and see how quickly they'll dance for you.

[ccdimage]

I have heard that some men prefer playing female chars - especially in relation to the Tomb Raider series, because, and I paraphrase "I would rather look at a cute female ass all day long."

True story. Heard it myself.

Yeah, I generally think that's a young-man, full-of-crap answer. People like to gender-bend because its' fun for both sexes (women do it too). I know more hard-core, male-power-gamers who like to play 'dress up' with their female characters and spend most of the money they earn on different outfits. And they're not necessarily even 'sexy' outfits. Just a wide variety of outfits.

So, while I've heard the excuse, what I've seen, for all their macho talk (at least with the guys), is that it's not much about the pixelated asses and is much more about playing dress-up. Something that, as boys, they weren't/aren't 'allowed' to do without sever social consequences in the real world.

Speak for yourself.
I don't care too much what gender the character I play is but I have never bothered to download a mod to play dressup with Lara.
As for looking at a cute ass all day long I don't do that either. The sexy girl is a hook that I fall for (probablly too often) but after a few minutes of gameplay I don't even see the bouncy bouncy bits because I am too engaged in not dying. It is a small and sometimes fun distraction to play bouncy boobs or upskirt with a character but it is mostly about the gun.If the gameplay is shit I wouldn't play the game for long even if my character was a nude Zev/Xev.

[another lurker]

I have heard that some men prefer playing female chars - especially in relation to the Tomb Raider series, because, and I paraphrase "I would rather look at a cute female ass all day long."

True story. Heard it myself.

Yeah, I generally think that's a young-man, full-of-crap answer. People like to gender-bend because its' fun for both sexes (women do it too). I know more hard-core, male-power-gamers who like to play 'dress up' with their female characters and spend most of the money they earn on different outfits. And they're not necessarily even 'sexy' outfits. Just a wide variety of outfits.

So, while I've heard the excuse, what I've seen, for all their macho talk (at least with the guys), is that it's not much about the pixelated asses and is much more about playing dress-up. Something that, as boys, they weren't/aren't 'allowed' to do without sever social consequences in the real world.

Well, my bf loves playing dressup. When he played AO he dressed his male character in a beanie hat and polka dot boxers. And when we played WoW, we scoured the world to find the perfect plate bikini and thigh highs for his blood elf pally!

[Tribble]

OK, so a few of you think that rather than complain about games, one should make one's own, and that to do so is easy, and sure to be successful ... because of some goofball cookie toy game. Right? Right.

OK, I am disappoint that Fallout 3 will not run properly on Win 7 -- it is not compatible. So, who's got the more than 20 million dollars, the 50+ coders, artists, etc., and the kajillion hours to help me rewrite it?

C'mon, folks, I am not talking about some pansy-assed cookie games that look like they were coded a decade ago, or some other closet-shop indie goofball game that through extraordinary luck and coincidence gets successful. I am talking about main stream and potentially globally successful games, which is primarily what AS and Rayner are talking about.

As far as I'm concerned, that one goofball example proves the rule.

One of hundreds of fixes that have been published. Most of them are the same fix. But some are not (depending if you're disk or steam or digital).

[youtube]lqrveIiMKsc[/youtube]

And it wouldn't cost that much anyway. If you had the 1.7 patch code it'd take a very small team a relatively short-time to write the OS-compatibility/hardware compatibility fix. But Bethesda doesn't want to do it because they're writing new games plus a giant MMO and, frankly, FO3 doesn't sell anymore and their attitude is 'work on what makes you money*.'

And, as you can see, people have worked out fixes. Just like they did with Daggerfall. And the original XCOM. And Arcanum. And BG1 and BG2. And so many other old games.

It's almost as if you're completely unaware of the modding/gaming community. And how little teams of hobbyists, in their spare time, fix these old games to run on modern systems.

[Barael]

Speaking of Skyrim, modding, and what one determined guy (who wants a job at Bethesda) can produce mostly on his own:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/196520/

Hint: a LOT.

[Al Stefanelli]

Anybody know what this is all about?

Unfortunately, YES!

It's a bit of a long story!

http://uberfeminist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... sarah.html

If you read it all, you'll have only a bit of an idea of how crazy the entire situation was.

What a train wreck.

And this is just scratching the surface. The level of batshittery is freaking epic. I just don't have the time to catalog all of it and put it into a format that would give you a decent idea of just how fucked up this is. It spans Twitter, Facebook, Blogs, etc., and involves dozens of people. Just, wow...

[debaser71]

I'm beyond a "gamer". I'm a pvper. Anyway I used to make fun of guildies who'd be into their characters looks. I'd say, "play2dressup". A play on the phrase "play2crush". All in good fun. I certainly "care" about how my characters (male/female/demon,whatever) look. I usually make my main character a male and most of my alts are female. YMMV.

lol gamers...more like little blue carebears

[another lurker]

Reminds me of some of the arguments I've had with anti-vegans.

Anti-vegans? I can see people objecting to a vegan diet for themselves, but why should it matter to them whether others adopt a vegan diet?

As an aside, I just ordered the Forks Over Knives DVD. Most of my meals are vegan, and I've eschewed overly processed foods for many years now, so it might be somewhat preaching to the choir, but it looked like an interesting documentary.

I suspect that anti-vegans might be arguing that raising animals for slaughter gives said animals 'the precious gift of life, if only for a short time.' Which is pretty fucked up, tbh.

I have had Forks Over Knives for a while now, need to watch it :) Food Inc. was interesting.

[Southern]

Reminds me of some of the arguments I've had with anti-vegans.

Anti-vegans? I can see people objecting to a vegan diet for themselves, but why should it matter to them whether others adopt a vegan diet?

As an aside, I just ordered the Forks Over Knives DVD. Most of my meals are vegan, and I've eschewed overly processed foods for many years now, so it might be somewhat preaching to the choir, but it looked like an interesting documentary.

I suspect that anti-vegans might be arguing that raising animals for slaughter gives said animals 'the precious gift of life, if only for a short time.' Which is pretty fucked up, tbh.

I have had Forks Over Knives for a while now, need to watch it :) Food Inc. was interesting.

The only stance ever needed against anti-veganism is this:

download.jpg

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[Tribble]

[

No, you're not. Even on this very thread, the sort of defensiveness you see from gamers is amazingly childish. Let me be clear: I think Sarkeesian's presentation sort of sucks, is too laundry-listy, and is overall annoying in tone. But despite all that, she's right. Games, generally, have a shitty presentation of women and it would be nice if publishers would learn to treat women in games as more than just eye candy. At its simplest level, if women in movies were used like women in games are, every single fucking movie would be a cinema version of a Frank Frazzetta painting. Anyone who seriously wants to argue against this observation just doesn't play many games. It sucks.

If you actually fucking played games or were in the gaming community you'd know she selected a narrow, predominantly obsolete, list of games that roughly fit her pre-determined conclusion of sexism in games and shoehorned them in. Some of which she absolutely lied about (Starfox) to fit in her narrative.

You look at the Top-100 selling franchises of 2011 and it's goddamn serious hard work to find any examples of that assertion. There are HANDFUL of games with scantily-clad women and most of them are where it's appropriate to the game: Saints Row the Third (Gangster themed story-shooter, treats men the same way, ranked 53 in sales), Dead Island (resort themed zombie story-shooter, treats men the same way, ranked 56 in sales), Grand Theft Auto IV (gangster themed story-shooter).

I have to get all the way to Rage (Bethesda known for skimpy clothes when they can shoehorn it in) which came in at 68 before your idiotic assertion is finally shown through what one could assert is 'gratuitous skimpy clothing.'

http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefee ... hers01.jpg

THis is why I criticize Sarkeesian. This is why I criticize the idiots who reflexively defend her based on their goddamn fucking ignorance.

She has made up a 'fantasy' gaming world running rampant with sexism and misogyny when, in fact, skimpily dressed women are not the be-all and end-all of gaming experience and represent nothing more than a very small fraction of the market. Further, skimpily clad women are dressed (mostly) to be relevant and appropriate to the story.

When the zombies attack your island vacation resort, it's normal for some zombies to be in bikinis. Or speedos. When you're dealing with a ganster shooter that has sex clubs, you can be sure to see plenty of scantily-clad women, and men. Hopefully the Male Sarkeesian's out there won't shut Saints Row the Third down over this rampant sexism and exploitation of men:

http://www.scientificgamer.com/blog/wp- ... 6/crew.jpg

http://gamingshogun.com/wp-content/uplo ... -third.jpg

Yes, that's a giant purple dildo being used to beat up that guy. You get that as a weapon option when you rescue one of your future homies (a man) being held prisoner in a bondage sex club (pony play). Welcome to Saints Row the Third: http://tinyurl.com/mmm8k9h

Before you rank on gamers, or support those assholes who do, get a fucking clue. I've been hearing one level of bullshit or another from assholes on both sides of the culture war for decades now. It's time for you people to STFU and buy a goddamn clue.

It's not what you think. It never was.

[debaser71]

Maybe because some vegans and other "green" folk give non green people shit about what they are eating or how their food is produced. I also find, and YMMV, if someone is vegan then their chances of being a left wing asshole are greater. Vegans are more likely to be anti-vaccine, anti-GMO, and against farming except for "organics". And note my non-absolutist language.

Anyway as I get older I enjoy eating meat less and less and I like deep dark green leafy vegetables...like kale more and more. A few years ago I "discovered" juicing and green juice. I drink kale. Yum.

[Dave]

Not to distract from the abortion/gaming topic, but

Anyone else notice that FTB is down?

[CommanderTuvok]

FfTB is down.

Oh, happy days.

[CommanderTuvok]

:lol:

[debaser71]

Sarky wrote a high school term paper. Start with a conclusion and find examples to support that. Stretch the truth, lie. etc. Just prove your point with example after example (while using personal anecdotes). Never discuss possible counter examples. It's English Language Arts tenth grade stuff. Shit my 10th grade term paper was about the REALITY of demonic possession. I got an A. btw, I really do not like how most "journalists" write. The format they learn from is bad. I hate "hooks". I hate "story telling". I want information. YMMV. If one wants to know why America is full of morons just look at our news media.

[Southern]

FFtB is down, time to infight.

So, how's that Palestine vs Israel thing is going, everybody? I hope it's not going as trying to fix a nail with a screwdriver, eh? Because that would be impossible, a carnie trick, right?

[FrankGrimes]

BillHamp said:

If there is a problem with how private companies make games sold to private individuals, the answer is not a kickstarter campaign to complain about it. The answer is to produce your own video game that will be a marketing success and change the industry.

Wow. If you think the days still exist where even a unique and extremely talented and experienced individual could actually create and successfully produce a video game still exist, I want whatever drugs you're using; they must be fun.

Game production is a highly formulaic, extremely expensive corporate venture. The days of a handful of talented kids sitting in their basement producing qualty material are long, long gone.

In that sense, the video game industry is precisely like the music industry: individual skill and talent are meaningless, utterly meaningless. It is a corporate machine now.

Actually, the days of a handful of talented kids sitting in their basement producing quality material are coming back strong. Not sure if you keep up with the games industry, but some of the best games of the last few years have been indie games. Some are produced by large teams, but many have been produced by individuals, or teams of less than 5 people. They've made such waves that Sony and Microsoft have being gunning for them pretty strongly. The big developers/publishers have noticed as well, and some are trying to reproduce these successes in-house.

As for the "formulaic" bit, there are plenty of examples of bigger developers/publishers that still experiment. Many suffer, but enough succeed. There will always be franchises like Call of Duty, that stick to the same formula and avoid alienating anyone by introducing too much novelty/innovation, but I think it's a mistake to claim that everything else is dead just because these types of games rake in the dough while playing it safe.

Damned right.

And back to the analogy between the gaming industry and music, if I may. Yeah, it's a fair analogy. They both seem like cash cows right now. But there are a shit ton of independent artists in the music biz and in the gaming biz that are making more than enough and being "successful" enough for themselves that they don't have any interest in the "major labels". And I'll give you just one example from the music biz that I know of, personally.

Friend of mine released an album in Australia last Friday. No major label backing - recording contract, distrubution, promo etc... nope. Went into the top five on the first day of release. I'd call that a success.

Minecraft. Yes, I bought that game and used to play it fairly regularly (until my laptop died). Some people might not see the attraction but the attraction isn't the vanilla, it's the fact that you can mod if you want to. In fact it seems to be encouraged. Back in the day I used to mod the Close Combat series. THAT, was the fun. Idiots like myself could buy the game and make it our own then give our mods to mates. We didn't need to make money out of it, it was fun just doing it. I'd call that a success too. That series went for way longer than it should have because of that.

And that is art as well. In fact, IMHO, to say that the major franchise games or major label recording artists aren't doing art - because it's all corporate shit, don't you know - is an insult. To anyone that doubts this I'd say you have no fucking idea of the process that happens before something like a game or a single or album gets released. It's not like corporate shmucks sit around asking coders or writers to just copy what's cool, no. They are constantly creating by either tweaking what's already been done to a level where it's not just, dare I say it, an Iphone with a new hat, or they are creating out of nothing, or somewhere in between. That's what sells, you see, and artists and game makers that DON'T actually create are roundly criticised which always means goodbye profit.

So to whoever said this:

"In that sense, the video game industry is precisely like the music industry: individual skill and talent are meaningless, utterly meaningless. It is a corporate machine now." You simply have no idea. No fucking idea at all. I have friends that regularly make lots of money, travel the world and get to live amazing lives precicely because their skills and talent are valued. And I have no doubt it's no different for game makers either. Dumb cunt.

[Ericb]

Now for something completely different. This poster looks like a candidate for the origin of the 2+2=5 thing:

http://i.imgur.com/DWi88.jpg

[FrankGrimes]

:lol:

Fuckin' LOL! Getting Beccy withdrawls are ya' Pawl?

[LurkerPerson]

Poor Greg, he already got piled on by a bunch of people, cut him some slack Grimey :(.

[Tribble]

OK, OK, I must curmodgeonly admit defeat. There have, apparently, been some games, other than just crackerjack boxes paint-by-numbers tiddly-winkers, right?, made and published, successfully, over the last few years.

Now, as I've never heard of them (except Minecraft, which like one other commenter, I too do not give a tinker's fart for), could someone PM me some links to them, please and thank you.

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

World of Goo -- my daughters love this.
Garry's Mod -- over 3 million unit sales now and most of my friends have it.
Limbo -- $7 million+ in sales.
Faster than Light -- Have it, worth every penny.
Cave Story -- one man, not even a team. Ranked as one of the Top-10 indy games in history.
Super Meat Boy -- my oldest daughter loves this game to death, I just die...
Braid (for XBox): Programmed by Blow, he paid (out of his own pocket) about $200k for his is one employee -- David Hellman for artwork and for living expenses.

Those are just SOME of the games beyond Minecraft.

[FrankGrimes]

Poor Greg, he already got piled on by a bunch of people, cut him some slack Grimey :(.

Really? Sorry but I didn't see that. I got to the top of page 141 and had had enough :hand:

I'm sure he'll be ok though. I only presented some facts and called him a dumb cunt. I have every confidence he'll get over that :) You ok Greg? Can I buy you a beer? Maybe I'll get him some pencils with my name on them...

[Al Stefanelli]

I think we should add EllenBeth Wachs to the Witch of the Week. Just sayin....

[debaser71]

OK, OK, I must curmodgeonly admit defeat. There have, apparently, been some games, other than just crackerjack boxes paint-by-numbers tiddly-winkers, right?, made and published, successfully, over the last few years.

Now, as I've never heard of them (except Minecraft, which like one other commenter, I too do not give a tinker's fart for), could someone PM me some links to them, please and thank you.

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

World of Goo -- my daughters love this.
Garry's Mod -- over 3 million unit sales now and most of my friends have it.
Limbo -- $7 million+ in sales.
Faster than Light -- Have it, worth every penny.
Cave Story -- one man, not even a team. Ranked as one of the Top-10 indy games in history.
Super Meat Boy -- my oldest daughter loves this game to death, I just die...
Braid (for XBox): Programmed by Blow, he paid (out of his own pocket) about $200k for his is one employee -- David Hellman for artwork and for living expenses.

Those are just SOME of the games beyond Minecraft.

Some indie games I enjoyed for the PC were from Steam. And just off the top of my head...

Terraria
Don't Starve
Revenge of the Titans
Space Pirates And Zombies S.P.A.Z.
Orcs Must Die
Gratuitous Space Battles
Dwarves
Realm of the Mad God
Dungeon Defenders
Spiral Knights

None of these games have mind blowing graphics. They are games based around fun...and maybe a bit of retro nostalgia. There's many others and they frequently go on sale for under $5.

[another lurker]

Speaking of Indie games, I love the Humble Bundle:

https://www.humblebundle.com/

Pay what you want and help charity.

[Cunt of Personality]

As an alternative to a Nails vs Palestine debate, here's a PZ Myers colouring-in page for your amusement until FfTB is back on-line with some new drama.


http://i.imgur.com/gvTCQfO.jpg

[Tribble]

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

Oh, btw, I forgot to address that point in my previous post.

You can license the graphics engine. There are people building independent MMOs with the Hero Engine. There's a guy in France who's been building his own MMO single handed (including procedurally generated worlds that work quite well) and his engine is really nice to the point he's been looking for licensees.

Then of course, there are plenty of engines (used in big-budget games, too) that have very favorable licensing terms for independents -- that is a pure 'cut of sales' with no upfront costs.

[Tribble]

Speaking of Skyrim, modding, and what one determined guy (who wants a job at Bethesda) can produce mostly on his own:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/196520/

Hint: a LOT.

Yeah, we (my daughter and I) can't run that mod so we're left out in the cold on it because it's too big for Steam Workshop and the independent installer doesn't work right (for that mod) for Steam-Version of Skyrim. It was nice work from what I've seen.

Also, he wasn't completely independent (solo) but lead a very good small-team effort.

[Karmakin]

Actually if some dedicated SJW wanted to do something interesting and useful, they could compare the treatment of female characters in GTAV to female characters in Saint's Row IV.

From what I hear, in GTAV all the female characters are basically Skylar (from Breaking Bad) clones. While in Saint's Row IV, the female characters all have entirely different personalities..and they all have character growth through the game.

Actually, I think there's a lot that could be said for the differences between SRIV and GTAV..or the two series in general. I think that while both come from very cynical viewpoints, they're on entirely different ends of the spectrum. The GTA series I think is very misanthropic in general. It shows a certain disdain for humanity as a whole. While on the other end of the spectrum, I think that Saint's Row is much more positive. It's much more about camaraderie...when the chips are down, you can always count on your friends to back you up. And it LIKES those friends a hell of a lot more.

I do think there's room for critical discussion of gaming. But at the end of the day it has to come from a perspective of love for the medium, not a perspective of hate.

[Karmakin]

BTW, any discussion of gaming as art while leaving out The Last of Us is doing it wrong.

[FrankGrimes]

Not sure whether it's a denial of service or I should just ... heheheheheheeeeeheheee....

http://i.imgur.com/vgsYtpU.jpg

[ReneeHendricks]

Oddly enough, FfTB network is down as well as my Skeptischism site. Atlas Network seems to be down as well so I wonder if there's something bigger going on.

[JackRayner]

Seeing as you're on the subject of gaming, can I ask - is MGS5 any good? I was put off by the promotional video from a couple of years ago, which suggested it was a more Assassin's Creedish type thing (prefer the stealth element, see). Cheers.

Aside from that found in all of the trailers [Ground Zeroes, Penny Arcade Expo, The Phantom Pain, Spike's Video Awards, Metal Gear Solid V, GDC '13, Metal Gear Solid V, E3 '13], there hasn't been much gameplay revealed. They held an event earlier in the month where they played the game for a audience made of of games journalists, but no actual footage from that has been released, and it seems none will be. I've read and watched videos of the gameplay being described, but it's a pretty lousy substitute for the actual thing, so it didn't do much for me.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "Assassin's Creed-ish", but as far as I know it's still the same stealth game. The biggest difference seems to be that parts of the game will be a lot more open. Kojima has described it as "open world", but I'd say think more Batman: Arkham City, and less Grand Theft Auto. The part of the E3 trailer [linked above] that shows gameplay should give you a good idea of what that'll entail.

Almost forgot. They did a presentation where they spoke some about their new Fox Engine [lots of boring stuff that only 3D artists would care about], and there's a little gameplay in there as well [starting at 10:30], but it's right after Big Boss has come out of his coma, so...

[mordacious1]

So, I'm not big on shooters, slashers, etc. I prefer a game where you have to solve puzzles to move on, e.g. Indiana Jones is in a tomb and has to climb, push things around, find objects, etc in order to open the door to the next room, that kind of thing. Taking out a few Nazis along the way is fine, as long as it's not blasting your way through the game. Several shooters that my son has, the puzzles consist of opening a box to find bigger and better weapons, that gets repetitive to me.

Any suggestions? And oh, I no longer have Xbox, Nintendo...since the boy keeps forgetting to plug them into surge protectors and I got tired of replacing the power units...so out they went. They don't seem to make a lot of games for PC anymore.