Bleeding from the Bunghole

[Linus]

For me, the bottom line is that much of E.P. is dragged down by the general lousiness of social science. Theory of Mind being a good example of what's wrong with social sciences. The social sciences have a large amount of garbage that is considered data. Obviously if your data is garbage your results will be garbage too.

http://www.parentingscience.com/cogniti ... pment.html

Talks about what's wrong with some of the ToM experiments done on young children.

That article doesn't seem to mention any of the ToM experiments that were conducted on infants w/o any verbal questioning or instructions, but instead monitors their attention to certain events in which actors hold false beliefs (for example Onishi and Baillergeon, 2005; or Buttelmann et al., 2009). These experiments typically show that below 15 months old the infants are unable to understand the concept that someone can believe something that is false, whereas 18 month old's are markedly superior. I think it's somewhat rash to blame all cognitive failures that children seem to uniquely experience (in various age ranges) on the experimenters' use of language.

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101223/ ... 0.697.html
http://www.livescience.com/10924-7-mont ... oints.html

Anyway, and more in general, I thinks it's rash to base theories on bad experiments. I think much of the social sciences are still in the thoughtful speculation phase. Sort of like how serious astronomers would be without a telescope. Useful information can still be gathered and useful ideas created.

There's been plenty of good experimental research in psychology. Plenty of bad too, but I wouldn't say that's unique to social science. That isn't to say that the brain/mind is very well understood. Broad and ambitious theories in psychology tend to be weak. But simple effects discoveries are still interesting and useful. Particularly to law, advertising, education, administration, political campaigning and so on.

The subject area I was studying (that is, the nature of and formation of concepts) has only seen very limited progress so far, but I have a feeling any serious breakthroughs in that area could prove crucial to understanding human cognition on a more fundamental level.

[another lurker]

Joanne Latham had/has great tits:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=joanne+l ... yQGQnIHwCA

[Dave2]

If you're arguing that psychology as a field has value, I completely agree. I don't see how the Stroop effect or theory of mind fall within the realm of "evolutionary psychology" as opposed to just plain old psychology. One who does not believe in evolution should have no logical difficulty with acknowledging the Stroop effect or agreeing with theory of mind.

But EP and plain old psychology aren't mutually exclusive. For what it's worth I would have thought that theory of mind was fairly much acknowledged as a cornerstone of EP (at least that was how it was presented to me in my course texts) and the fact that it has been tested cross species in particular.

As for Stroop, whilst the effect itself is quite classic psychology, it surely falls within the general ambit of bottleneck theories of attention for which there are better evolutionary explanations than alternatives.

Could one refuse to accept evolution and still accept Stroop or ToM? I'm certain they could, but I'm not sure the degrees of credulity people can go to in order to accept certain phenomena without upshots is evidence of much - we saw Ray Comfort concede the phenomena of speciation to Thunderf00t after all. Stroop entails the sort of trade off between abilities that an evolutionary mindset would predict.

Therefore evidence for the Stroop effect is amongst the evidence for evolutionary explanations for the Stroop effect, and so on.

Now, other perspectives do access and share this evidence, but that itself need not be a problem in cases where the different perspectives marry up or (at worst) coexist without conflict.

So - bearing in mind it was the evidence we were talking about - there doesn't seem to be a shortage when it comes to phenomena for which evolutionary explanations are given. It might be said that such evidence isn't exclusive to EP - but what's new there? For example the fossil record is evidence for numerous fields - evolutionary biology, palaeontology, geology, creation "science" and so on...

Unclear writing on my part. I didn't intend to say Ed was dishonest. The "some irrationality and dishonesty" was in reference to JREFers I've argued with as mentioned in my previous paragraph as well as Ed and others. What I said about Ed was that I found some of his points over the top and ridiculous. I would call this a bit irrational. Like accusing Watson of "science denialism".

In that talk she was making stuff up out of whole cloth, misquoting scientists, misattributing the words of laymen to scientists and vice versa, mocking a study's results because she didn't like the reasons behind the formation of the hypothesis, stating that poorly conducted studies trumped the findings of ones with superior design, and so on...

Now when Lord Monkton does the same, or when Ken Ham does the same, we are happy to call them science deniers, right?

So why not Rebecca when she does it?

I had to cut this short due to the character limit, but I appreciate the detailed reply.

Well, I appreciate the straightforward debate on the issue, so cheers.

[Guest]

http://i.imgur.com/N9KPOMI.jpg

I think the bigger issue here is the 20 year minimum sentencing written into law. I suspect that many people would think that is excessive for an incident that did not result in any injury or loss of life.

The Black Skeptics are not saying she was sentenced disproportionately compared to anyone else guilty of the same crime.

They are literally saying she did nothing wrong. They are literally saying her acts of running outside to get a gun, then running back inside and firing that gun are acts of self-defense. They are justifying it by saying she is a dv survivor when instead the record shows she is a dv abuser.

But I do have to grant this, the Black Skeptics skepticism here isn't so much as racist as it is terribly sexist.

[Dave2]

Regarding race - the contention shared between most EPers is that there are no differences.

Races can be clustered very accurately from genetic material once you start looking at multiple loci:

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2013/05/le ... -hurt.html

What I find irritating about evolutionary psychologists is that they invoke biology and genetics where not actually warranted but then back down where it is warranted due to political correctness.

Bearing in mind that the words you quote were intended solely as a response to a discussion about psychological differences (not genetic or phenotypical differences, which I would cede as apparent) and that I cited possible exceptions in the part of the response you did not quote, could you tell me what I am supposed to be getting from that link?

[Dave]

http://i.imgur.com/N9KPOMI.jpg

I think the bigger issue here is the 20 year minimum sentencing written into law. I suspect that many people would think that is excessive for an incident that did not result in any injury or loss of life.

My understanding is that the trial judge stated exactly that, but felt his hands had been tied by the legislature.

Ive seen many people try to sell this as a sexism or racism issue. ("If she was a white male, she would have never been charged!") From what I can see, the issues are sufficiently fact-intensive that its hard to pin as either. Both she and Grey have changed their stories at times so its hard to claim that any particular scenario is definitive. But it certainly highlights the potential injustice of severe minimum sentences.

[another lurker]

Mandatory minimums are teh suck because they do not take into account mitigating circumstances. Canada's 'tough on crime' Prime Minister passed some legislation that now carries with it mandatory minimum sentences for minor offenses. Someone caught with 6 pot plants will do as much prison time as someone with 200. Nine months in prison, which I believe is what pedophiles get, in or around.

Thankfully, Canadian judges believe this is asinine, and some of them have refused to go along with it.

[windy]

Regarding race - the contention shared between most EPers is that there are no differences.

Races can be clustered very accurately from genetic material once you start looking at multiple loci:

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2013/05/le ... -hurt.html

What I find irritating about evolutionary psychologists is that they invoke biology and genetics where not actually warranted but then back down where it is warranted due to political correctness.

Bearing in mind that the words you quote were intended solely as a response to a discussion about psychological differences (not genetic or phenotypical differences, which I would cede as apparent)

And since you were talking about evolutionary psychology, why would you separate "psychological" from "genetic or phenotypical"? (Remember the lesson of Don Kane...)

and that I cited possible exceptions in the part of the response you did not quote, could you tell me what I am supposed to be getting from that link?

Possibly a counterexample to your claim that "there is no delineation between typical modern humans of various races that cannot be said to be sociocultural"?

There is no "essentialist" type delineation between races or populations that holds up, but the possibility of statistical differences in some traits (as with sexes) can't be ruled out at this point.

[deLurch]

Mandatory minimums are teh suck because they do not take into account mitigating circumstances. Canada's 'tough on crime' Prime Minister passed some legislation that now carries with it mandatory minimum sentences for minor offenses. Someone caught with 6 pot plants will do as much prison time as someone with 200. Nine months in prison, which I believe is what pedophiles get, in or around.

Thankfully, Canadian judges believe this is asinine, and some of them have refused to go along with it.

I am not necessarily against minimum sentences. I am against lengthy "tough on crime" sentencing that may not fit the crime.

[another lurker]

Mandatory minimums are teh suck because they do not take into account mitigating circumstances. Canada's 'tough on crime' Prime Minister passed some legislation that now carries with it mandatory minimum sentences for minor offenses. Someone caught with 6 pot plants will do as much prison time as someone with 200. Nine months in prison, which I believe is what pedophiles get, in or around.

Thankfully, Canadian judges believe this is asinine, and some of them have refused to go along with it.

I am not necessarily against minimum sentences. I am against lengthy "tough on crime" sentencing that may not fit the crime.

Yeah. Agreed. An example of the new mandatory minimum backfiring here in Canada is when a young, and very foolish man, borrowed his cousin's gun and took some pix of himself pretending to be a gansta and posted them on facebook. The guy was just being a moron. He didn't hurt anyone. But the new mandatory minimum required 3 years in jail for 'illegal gun possession' or something.

Then there’s Leroy Smickle, also convicted of possessing an illegal firearm after his ill-timed posing for a webcam holding his cousin’s gun just as Toronto police officers crashed through an apartment door.

But this time his sentencing judge decided a mandatory three-year sentence would be “grossly disproportionate” to what Smickle deserved so she struck down the law as unconstitutional.

“The legislation is requiring me to impose a sentence that constitutes cruel and unusual punishment,” breaching the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Ontario Superior Court Justice Anne Molloy wrote.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/ ... court.html

[Tribble]

http://i.imgur.com/N9KPOMI.jpg

I think the bigger issue here is the 20 year minimum sentencing written into law. I suspect that many people would think that is excessive for an incident that did not result in any injury or loss of life.

It was attempted murder!

In August 2011, a judge rejected a motion by Alexander's attorney to grant her immunity under the "Stand your Ground" law. According to the judge's order, "there is insufficient evidence that the Defendant reasonably believed deadly force was needed to prevent death or great bodily harm to herself," and that the fact that she came back into the home, instead of leaving out the front or back door "is inconsistent with a person who is in genuine fear for her life."

They had a fight at the bathroom. She left the bathroom, went into the garage (which is probably attached to the kitchen), got into her car, got the gun out of the glove box, came back into the house. At that particular point in time no exits were blocked or imaired by her husband and she could freely leave by any door in the house.

Instead, she tried to shoot her husband, barely missing him, right in front of their children. And it wasn't 'shoot him in the foot.' The forensic evidence indicates she missed him at head-height. She was trying to kill him in classic 'second degree murder' scenario. At least by the evidence.

Corey initially offered Alexander a three year deal if she pleaded guilty to aggravated assault, but according to CBS affiliate WTEV, Alexander did not believe she had done anything wrong, and rejected the plea. Her bet did not pay off: the jury in the case returned a guilty verdict in less than 15 minutes.

I'd have taken that three-year sentence. Getting only three years from failing to kill your spouse in front of your children? That's a sweet-heart deal you're not going see many men get.

But she didn't. And what kind of mental problems does a person have to have to not see what they did was wrong? Maybe not in the heat of it. But we're talking MONTHS later and surely the smallest amount of reflection on the issue would have gotten her to "oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that..."

Anyway, it took the jury 15-minutes to convict her. That's how clear and concrete the prosecutions case was. How absolutely unbelievable her self-defense story was.

As for the 20-year minimum. She tried to kill someone. I'm not a fan of three-strikes laws. I'm not a fan of many of the 'get tough' drug law sentences for otherwise 'victimless' crimes. But this was hot-blooded murder. And that kind of person needs to be taken out of society because they're a danger to other members of society by their demonstrated lack of self-control.

[Michael J]

PZ has shown that arguing with him is completely useless. Here he goes again, starting the hyperbole right from the title of the post. Did Anne Marie said that "There is only one problem and it's Muslim"? Nope.

In the old days, PZ used the comic-sans-with-mr-gumby style only for some of the most crazy creationists. Now he uses it for anyone who disagrees with him.

He must be solely doing this stuff for blog hits. Every time he disses an atheist he gets a visitor spike from their supporters. It's like using a defib on a corpse - the heart will only beat while you have the current running. I think that once his targets learn to ignore him the blog will really go down the toilet.

[Gumby]

I somehow suddenly see photoshops incoming...
I must be a medium. Plenty of material, here.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 9efdce.jpg

[Git]

Win!

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Regarding race - the contention shared between most EPers is that there are no differences.

Races can be clustered very accurately from genetic material once you start looking at multiple loci:

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2013/05/le ... -hurt.html

What I find irritating about evolutionary psychologists is that they invoke biology and genetics where not actually warranted but then back down where it is warranted due to political correctness.

James Watson wasn't shy about it.

[Service Dog]

Hugo Schwyzer, driving under the influence of Klonopin last Friday, caused a car crash that injured a young woman,
who was airlifted to a hospital. He was charged with Felony DUI.

Schwyzer blogged about it today, then deleted the post. This is google's cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... elony-dui/

This blog appears to corroborate the story:
http://www.redlightpolitics.info/post/6 ... njured-had

[Zenspace]

I somehow suddenly see photoshops incoming...
I must be a medium. Plenty of material, here.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 9efdce.jpg

Documentary?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

http://i.imgur.com/N9KPOMI.jpg

I think the bigger issue here is the 20 year minimum sentencing written into law. I suspect that many people would think that is excessive for an incident that did not result in any injury or loss of life.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that harsh penalty was pushed by feminists who had evil, testosterone-poisoned men in mind.

Ya think anyone would be crying foul if it had been a white man instead of a black woman?

[Gumby]

Hugo Schwyzer, driving under the influence of Klonopin last Friday, caused a car crash that injured a young woman,
who was airlifted to a hospital. He was charged with Felony DUI.

Schwyzer blogged about it today, then deleted the post. This is google's cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... elony-dui/

This blog appears to corroborate the story:
http://www.redlightpolitics.info/post/6 ... njured-had

He's just a disaster all around, isn't he?

Schwyzer must be new to Klonopin. I have taken it in the past and know from experience how easy it is to build up a tolerance to it. 6 mg is not a large dose, especially if you've been on it for any length of time.

He also seems to be dutifully sucking up to feminists by flagellating his maleness:

When a a man drives under the influence and hurts someone, he should pay the penalty.

I would say that when anyone drives under the influence and hurts someone, they should pay the penalty. But Hugo doesn't seem to want to include women in that philosophy.

[Service Dog]

I would say that when anyone drives under the influence and hurts someone, they should pay the penalty. But Hugo doesn't seem to want to include women in that philosophy.

His Feminist critics are displaying a similar selectivity on Twitter and Comments Sections-- they find it especially bad that he injured a woman driver.

I say: What about the menz? Hugo's a menace to everyone.

[Apples]

[youtube]kIHRgisdbeY[/youtube]

Great song - second song my guitar teacher (Dad) taught me. First one was Tom Dooley. Misogynist.

[clownshoe]

Hey, Abbie:

[blimg]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVXRqUqIgAAedDz.jpg[/blimg]

RAEP!

Yep, looks like that one needs to go in "Up the Arse Corner" in Viz!

Al is a gentleman. Dinner will be bought.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Does anyone remember the motel manager lady I had a confrontation with back in June? [snip]Anyway, I had to pee today and stepped into a motel owned by the same company as the one I was staying in back in June and who was behind the front desk? [snip]

Nope. I just remember the wageslave who you felt you could walk around in front of with your $5 footlong schlepping around like a windsock on the moon.

And really, Walter: why are you - the newly-rich guy who can toss around legal threats because he is so loaded - still hanging around reas where the nearest place to piss is another fucking motel?

You're a lying bag of shit, you lying bag of shit.

[bovarchist]

"Racistfinder General" :D

I'm going to assume that this is a reference to Good Omens and approve of his reference on a probationary basis.

I thought it was a reference to the Witchfinder General in The Last Witchfinder

[another lurker]

The Witchsmeller Pursuivant


[youtube]fYJZqJezjz4[/youtube]

[BarnOwl]

I would say that when anyone drives under the influence and hurts someone, they should pay the penalty. But Hugo doesn't seem to want to include women in that philosophy.

His Feminist critics are displaying a similar selectivity on Twitter and Comments Sections-- they find it especially bad that he injured a woman driver.

I say: What about the menz? Hugo's a menace to everyone.

Trigger Flashback Warning: Grateful Dead

[youtube]96GzQYA5BYo[/youtube]

[bovarchist]

Tribble wrote:

Women want to talk, not listen and they like a guy who can say something funny that's supportive and shows you were listening.

To steal and paraphrase a joke from Bill Maher;
When Muslim men go to heaven, they get 72 virgins, when Muslim women go to heaven, they get 72 men that just listen.

Which is why it surprises me how much hate people have for PUAs. Because just from reading Neil Strauss's book The Game, most of what PUAs talk about seems to revolve around how to be a more interesting conversationalist. Like asking questions that engage her imagination, not just requiring a flat answer. That's good advice for anybody.

[bovarchist]

Tribble wrote:

Women want to talk, not listen and they like a guy who can say something funny that's supportive and shows you were listening.

To steal and paraphrase a joke from Bill Maher;
When Muslim men go to heaven, they get 72 virgins, when Muslim women go to heaven, they get 72 men that just listen.

When the men go to heaven they also get 72 Mother-in-laws along with the 72 virgins.

I'll pass on that!

Don't get the appeal of virgins. Just once, wouldn't you want to have sex with a woman who isn't crying?

[BarnOwl]

One of the funniest comments I've seen on a YouTube music video:

What people do not realize is that Fripp controls the entire band by psychokinesis.

:lol:

[AndrewV69]

Re: Cain and Latoka.

I had a long debate with myself over the question of if it is wise to let you folks know this seeing as it is probably TMI.

Anyway, here it is, for good bad or evil. I know how to say the following in Latoka:

I am greasing my sex organs.

Long story ... do not ask. And yes, this is pretty much all the Latoka I remember.

[deLurch]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that harsh penalty was pushed by feminists who had evil, testosterone-poisoned men in mind.

While "feminist" influences may be culpable of a number of different bad actions, I suspect the "tough on crime" election politics and fear of the general population is more to blame.

And someone else mentioned that this was attempted murder... more than just firing a warning shot. I'm not going to dig that deep into this BS.

Ya think anyone would be crying foul if it had been a white man instead of a black woman?

Just his lawyer, if he could afford it.

[deLurch]

Schwyzer must be new to Klonopin. I have taken it in the past and know from experience how easy it is to build up a tolerance to it. 6 mg is not a large dose, especially if you've been on it for any length of time.

I was wondering the same thing. Since his crazy/suicide episodes are somewhat new he may have been given a new prescription as opposed to a long standing drug abuse issue.

Where you given warnings not to drive when you were given this prescription, or was that only a warning on the label about operating machinery?

[deLurch]

Al is a gentleman. Dinner will be bought.

Steak & a ball lick day?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

[youtube]lE4qFhCueBc[/youtube]

TAKE ALL OF MY INTERNETS!

You win, CofP!

\m/

They got into a bit of trouble with that album cover. The topless woman is Joanne Latham, if I remember correctly.

The cover art for Smell The Glove was worse.

[another lurker]

The cover art for Smell The Glove was worse.

Did a search for "Smell the Glove' and came across this random artwork, haha:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/ ... eGlove.jpg

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

PZ Meyers is absolutely no better than a creationist christian. I'm sure you've all read that internet myth about some kid who stands up to his atheist University lecturer, who has some kind of chalk-based proof there is no god. The typical story is here: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/ ... kouuyTR07A

Well, Meyers has today posted about the exact fucking same thing, just from an atheist viewpoint. No corroboration, no sources, just some bullshit fucking post on a website which states this:

Not Always Learning is a website that shares true, reader-submitted stories of funny & interesting students, teachers, and parents.

How the fuck do they know the stories are "true"? And isn't "true" pretty much incompatible with "reader-submitted stories" when dealing with the internet?

Anyway, Meyers has swallowed this shit with all the eagerness of a German prostitute. It's pathetic, and truly the moment when he becomes indistinguishable from Ken Ham or Ray Comfort.

Meyers's post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... eatly-done

And the referenced story: http://notalwayslearning.com/he-was-the ... irit/32317

[KenD]

Waters tries to support her claim that feminists are happy to let Islamic violence against women slide by listing lots of examples of feminists pursuing other problems than Sharia law.

Except that she listed examples from her experience where the feminist groups told her it was racist to criticise Islamic misogyny. It's funny how women's experiences do not count when they contradict PZ's preconcieved notations but all must shut up and listen to women when they agree with him.

Even without that, to me it seems legitimate to question the effectiveness of feminist activist groups that claim to be "ending violence against women" (especially when they're well funded by the government to do so).

It's debatable whether the main things those feminists fight against, like strip clubs, page 3, lads' mags, "sexist" films/songs/games, trolling on twitter, etc. really do cause rape/violence in the real world. Far too much of the evidence that feminists cite in support of their "anti-rape" campaigns falls apart under scrutiny to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Considering all the effort and resources put into those campaigns -- all the picketing, marching, petitions, articles, political lobbying, etc. -- they could easily call attention to examples of Islamic misogyny if they wanted to. Yet British feminists wrote more about the politics of twerking than they did about the Islamic domestic violence apologism that Waters mentions.

Even if feminists weren't also silencing criticism with accusations of racism, I think that the strange things they do obsess over are enough to raise valid concerns about their priorities. Of course the likes of PZ are always going to hand wave away any such skepticism aimed at the feminist movement...

[Gumby]

Anyway, Meyers has swallowed this shit with all the eagerness of a German prostitute. It's pathetic, and truly the moment when he becomes indistinguishable from Ken Ham or Ray Comfort.

Meyers's post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... eatly-done

And the referenced story: http://notalwayslearning.com/he-was-the ... irit/32317

Good fucking god. He didn't even question it. Has he truly never heard the various "atheist professor/Christian student/stunned classroom" bullshit stories? He HAS to have heard them.

Fuck, he's going to be drawing atheist Chick Tract cartoons next.

[Gumby]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 028d15.jpg

[Gumby]

Schwyzer must be new to Klonopin. I have taken it in the past and know from experience how easy it is to build up a tolerance to it. 6 mg is not a large dose, especially if you've been on it for any length of time.

I was wondering the same thing. Since his crazy/suicide episodes are somewhat new he may have been given a new prescription as opposed to a long standing drug abuse issue.

Where you given warnings not to drive when you were given this prescription, or was that only a warning on the label about operating machinery?

I was specifically told not to drive for a few hours after taking. And I understood why, when I took my first one. It's a very woozy feeling when you haven't developed a tolerance.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

The blacked out bit is irrelevant to this. The important thing is that Nerd of Redhead - one of Meyers's most illiterate commenters, which is quite an achievement - seems to believe that life for gays in "majority Muslim countries" is pretty fucking good.

What a stupid fucking cunt.

http://i.imgur.com/BVBsOX1.png

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-698652

[Southern]

PZ Meyers is absolutely no better than a creationist christian. I'm sure you've all read that internet myth about some kid who stands up to his atheist University lecturer, who has some kind of chalk-based proof there is no god. The typical story is here: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/ ... kouuyTR07A

Well, Meyers has today posted about the exact fucking same thing, just from an atheist viewpoint. No corroboration, no sources, just some bullshit fucking post on a website which states this:

Not Always Learning is a website that shares true, reader-submitted stories of funny & interesting students, teachers, and parents.

How the fuck do they know the stories are "true"? And isn't "true" pretty much incompatible with "reader-submitted stories" when dealing with the internet?

Anyway, Meyers has swallowed this shit with all the eagerness of a German prostitute. It's pathetic, and truly the moment when he becomes indistinguishable from Ken Ham or Ray Comfort.

Meyers's post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... eatly-done

And the referenced story: http://notalwayslearning.com/he-was-the ... irit/32317

Silly ConcentratedH20! Don't you know? If it's on the internet, it must be true. Why would anybody post a fake story on a site? That doesn't make any sense! Imagine that, faking things on the internet! Bollocks! Bunch of bollocks!

[Southern]

The blacked out bit is irrelevant to this. The important thing is that Nerd of Redhead - one of Meyers's most illiterate commenters, which is quite an achievement - seems to believe that life for gays in "majority Muslim countries" is pretty fucking good.

What a stupid fucking cunt.

http://i.imgur.com/BVBsOX1.png

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-698652

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, Nerd, that's right! How can you know for a fact, Hitchen's quote and all, that being gay on a majority Muslim country under Sharia Law is harder than in any Western democracy?

I say, let's really send Setar to live in Saudi Arabia for six hours months like we talked before. Then he can give us a detailed testimonial - either he or his fabulous elven corpse, whatever survives the experience.

[Service Dog]

PZ Meyers is absolutely no better than a creationist christian. I'm sure you've all read that internet myth about some kid who stands up to his atheist University lecturer, who has some kind of chalk-based proof there is no god. The typical story is here: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/ ... kouuyTR07A

Well, Meyers has today posted about the exact fucking same thing, just from an atheist viewpoint. No corroboration, no sources, just some bullshit fucking post on a website which states this:

Not Always Learning is a website that shares true, reader-submitted stories of funny & interesting students, teachers, and parents.

How the fuck do they know the stories are "true"? And isn't "true" pretty much incompatible with "reader-submitted stories" when dealing with the internet?

Anyway, Meyers has swallowed this shit with all the eagerness of a German prostitute. It's pathetic, and truly the moment when he becomes indistinguishable from Ken Ham or Ray Comfort.

Meyers's post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... eatly-done

And the referenced story: http://notalwayslearning.com/he-was-the ... irit/32317

That's a rather explosive story, PZ. And you got it right from the victim's mouth! You've got to do what you've got to do, you can do no other. I will again emphasize, though, that you have no personal, direct evidence that the event occurred as described; all you can say is that the author also been vouched for by one funny-stories-website you trust.

But that doesn't mean the author is anonymous... to the author!

Boom.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Further corroboration: a witness has come forward. This person has asked to remain anonymous too, but I will say they’re someone who doesn’t particularly like PZ — so no accusations of fannishness, OK?

http://media.chick.com/tractimages67491 ... 055_01.gif

http://i.imgur.com/oZi0Yyz.png

http://i.imgur.com/ub6m6f7.png

http://i.imgur.com/T0kWgHq.png

http://i.imgur.com/o0mryJ7.png

[acathode]

From the Anne Marie Waters post that Dick Strawkins linked, it seems that just the appearance of being culturally sensitive is more important to PZ than actually doing anything to support the rights of women. Apparently it's also necessary to label others as racist, to emphasize one's own cultural sensitivity.

My experience in life tends to draw me to the conclusion that people who protest in the way Myers protested have a lot of deep-seated issues they're not proud of and, therefore, speak even louder against these very issues. Like many of the fallen TV and Mega Church preachers who preach honesty, marital fidelity, purity, etc., and you find out later they're scamming, embezzling, seeing hookers, rent boys and/or doing drugs.

I think it's dangerous to make those sorts of generalizations, you risk becoming one of the "You're only an atheist because you know you're a sinner who's going to hell! You just hate God!" kind of people, unable to accept that a lot of people might genuinely act, think and believe what they say they do, without hidden agendas or nasty secrets and guilt.

With that said though, that sort of behavior certainly do exists. When it comes to feminism, I think the most extreme case I know of is Göran Lindberg. He was a Swedish police chief who made a great career out of his feminism and work regarding equality in the police force, men's violence against women, sexual harassment, etc. Internally, a lot of personnel disliked him and gave him the nickname "Captain Skirt", but feminist organizations, politicians and media loved him for his work, which greatly boosted his career. His highest position was headmaster for the whole Swedish police educational system in the 90s, and after that he became police chief (commissioner?) for a large county.

Then in 2010 he was arrested at gas station, where he had set up to meet with a 14 year old girl. In his car, there were several Viagra pills, a ball gag, a whip, a leash, and several ropes. As the investigation got going and more details started emerging, it turned out that while Lindberg had been preaching about equality and respect to the police force, he had a side-businesses of being some sort of sadistic pimp/rapist of young teenage girls in some sort of "sex-network".

In the end, he was found guilty of: aggravated rape (of a 17 year old girl), and several cases of rape, assault, pimping, attempted pimping, accessory to pimping, and accessory to attempted pimping. He escaped the "attempt of rape of minor" charge since the court couldn't find any evidence of him knowing that the girl he was about to meet when he was arrested was younger than 15.

ps. Love all the recent photoshops!

[Guest]

From the Anne Marie Waters post that Dick Strawkins linked, it seems that just the appearance of being culturally sensitive is more important to PZ than actually doing anything to support the rights of women. Apparently it's also necessary to label others as racist, to emphasize one's own cultural sensitivity.

My experience in life tends to draw me to the conclusion that people who protest in the way Myers protested have a lot of deep-seated issues they're not proud of and, therefore, speak even louder against these very issues. Like many of the fallen TV and Mega Church preachers who preach honesty, marital fidelity, purity, etc., and you find out later they're scamming, embezzling, seeing hookers, rent boys and/or doing drugs.

I think it's dangerous to make those sorts of generalizations, you risk becoming one of the "You're only an atheist because you know you're a sinner who's going to hell! You just hate God!" kind of people, unable to accept that a lot of people might genuinely act, think and believe what they say they do, without hidden agendas or nasty secrets and guilt.

With that said though, that sort of behavior certainly do exists. When it comes to feminism, I think the most extreme case I know of is Göran Lindberg. He was a Swedish police chief who made a great career out of his feminism and work regarding equality in the police force, men's violence against women, sexual harassment, etc. Internally, a lot of personnel disliked him and gave him the nickname "Captain Skirt", but feminist organizations, politicians and media loved him for his work, which greatly boosted his career. His highest position was headmaster for the whole Swedish police educational system in the 90s, and after that he became police chief (commissioner?) for a large county.

Then in 2010 he was arrested at gas station, where he had set up to meet with a 14 year old girl. In his car, there were several Viagra pills, a ball gag, a whip, a leash, and several ropes. As the investigation got going and more details started emerging, it turned out that while Lindberg had been preaching about equality and respect to the police force, he had a side-businesses of being some sort of sadistic pimp/rapist of young teenage girls in some sort of "sex-network".

In the end, he was found guilty of: aggravated rape (of a 17 year old girl), and several cases of rape, assault, pimping, attempted pimping, accessory to pimping, and accessory to attempted pimping. He escaped the "attempt of rape of minor" charge since the court couldn't find any evidence of him knowing that the girl he was about to meet when he was arrested was younger than 15.

ps. Love all the recent photoshops!

Not to mention Hugo Schwyzer.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Service Dog is fucking terrifying.

[Guest]

Haha, Gawker just caused a lot of SJW butthurt.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/30/gawkers ... singleton/

If you go on Twitter, there's quite a bit of nerdrage about it as well.

[James Caruthers]

Haha, Gawker just caused a lot of SJW butthurt.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/30/gawkers ... singleton/

If you go on Twitter, there's quite a bit of nerdrage about it as well.

Now THAT is a lot of butthurt for such a small pisstake of the SJW victim narrative. :lol:

[Steersman]

So...Breaking Bad?

Jusr finished the final. I loved it, but YMMV. I thought it was a great end to a great show. They seem to have tied up everything (unless I missed something).

I don’t watch much television – “As the FreethoughtBlog World Turns” is, I find, far more entertaining – and problematic. And one only has so many free hours in the day.

But “Breaking Bad” is, apparently, not without its merits. Apropos of which, y’all might be interested in this Salon article. One might argue that bad laws and bad social policies do more to create criminals than does genetics. Although I wonder how that would sit with various SJWs …

[acathode]

Haha, Gawker just caused a lot of SJW butthurt.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/30/gawkers ... singleton/

If you go on Twitter, there's quite a bit of nerdrage about it as well.

Another click-bait?
1. Write a stupid trollish SJW article.
2. Sit back while the SJWs vs the rest duke it out in the comment section, on twitter and on FB.
3. Watch as the pageviews, and hopefully ad-money, tick up. The better you troll, flame-bait, and provoke the SIWOTI-reflexes of your readers, the more you gain.

Seems like an awful lot of "news"-sites are trying this sort of business model these days? I remember mainly seeing this sort of thing ~10 years ago at places like the Swedish IDG site, where they almost daily would put up a flame-bait article about Microsoft, Linux or Apple and get a flamewar going between the fanboys (since which OS you run is SRS BSNS!!!).

Is it just because I've shifted reading habits that I'm seeing more of this, or is this sort of shitty "journalism" spreading?

[Guest]

Haha, Gawker just caused a lot of SJW butthurt.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/30/gawkers ... singleton/

If you go on Twitter, there's quite a bit of nerdrage about it as well.

Another click-bait?
1. Write a stupid trollish SJW article.
2. Sit back while the SJWs vs the rest duke it out in the comment section, on twitter and on FB.
3. Watch as the pageviews, and hopefully ad-money, tick up. The better you troll, flame-bait, and provoke the SIWOTI-reflexes of your readers, the more you gain.

Seems like an awful lot of "news"-sites are trying this sort of business model these days? I remember mainly seeing this sort of thing ~10 years ago at places like the Swedish IDG site, where they almost daily would put up a flame-bait article about Microsoft, Linux or Apple and get a flamewar going between the fanboys (since which OS you run is SRS BSNS!!!).

Is it just because I've shifted reading habits that I'm seeing more of this, or is this sort of shitty "journalism" spreading?

SJW-culture itself seems to be spreading. I've seen quite a few news articles lately that are just a bunch of SJW-simpering/outrage, not to mention all the various idiots on Twitter, Tumblr, and FTB. Internet Geeks just love to feel superior to everyone, so if they mistakenly believe all these goofy "NINE OUT OF FOUR WOMEN ARE RAPED EVERY SECOND" statistics, they'll immediately go out and flaunt their enlightened liberal tolerance. If they're a white male, expect this to involve a lot of self-flagellating.

[deLurch]

Is it just because I've shifted reading habits that I'm seeing more of this, or is this sort of shitty "journalism" spreading?

It is because EVERYBODY has shifted reading habits. Serious journalism has gone downhill. Fluff pieces are easier & cheaper to write. New programs in the US used to be viewed as a public service and the networks would actually lose money on them.

Today, people have lost a lot of faith in news reporting.

If anyone has any websites that you consider good serious news reporting, let me know. It is hard to find today.

[James Caruthers]

Fake victim "won't somebody think of the children" moral outrage is fashionable nowadays. A hobby or vice can't be good for adults on its own merits (like video games, alcohol, weed, or sex), it can only be considered acceptable these days if there's some SJW moral justification for why it is acceptable. Like Sarkeesian pointing out games are good because they teach good skills, not "games are good because they're fun and people enjoy them" or "games are good because they're art." A thing can't just exist, it has to be incorporated into the SJW worldview.

As for shitty drama-whoring news reporting, this has been happening in American news for the last, I dunno, 20-30 years? At least. Once Cable News really took off, they started whoring for viewers and never stopped. A gonzo journalist from 60 years ago looks tame and responsible next to your average news anchor on CNN, MSNBC or FOX. The real problem with satire is it's so easy to not go far enough. I read Transmetropolitan and I almost can't laugh. I can't laugh because it's not an exaggeration, it's real.

[youtube]bEelLKhMteY[/youtube]
[youtube]cCoRUXPWdm8[/youtube]
They're basically having slapfights over cable news, the same way PZ does on twitter.

[Søren Lilholt]

The blacked out bit is irrelevant to this. The important thing is that Nerd of Redhead - one of Meyers's most illiterate commenters, which is quite an achievement - seems to believe that life for gays in "majority Muslim countries" is pretty fucking good.

What a stupid fucking cunt.

http://i.imgur.com/BVBsOX1.png

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-698652

How old is Nerd? 14? How are the regulars not embarrassed by this fool?

Fortunately this one is embarrasingly easy to provide a citation for. I hope someone can be bothered, if only so I can watch the tumbleweeds when Nerd mysteriously goes quiet.

[Dave2]

And since you were talking about evolutionary psychology, why would you separate "psychological" from "genetic or phenotypical"? (Remember the lesson of Don Kane...)

You have me there. I suppose I mean "those genetic and phenotypical traits that aren't directly a part of the nervous system". Even that's problematic I suppose, as an alteration in skin colour could certainly indirectly influence behaviour (such as sensitivity to sunlight and so on).

So I would climb down a bit in the face of that - and offer a begrudging qualification in that the subject of EP tends to be innate psychological propensities and capacities. Where they are demonstrated cross culturally they are obviously of interest to EPers, but where they aren't environmental factors usually explain the differences.

Possibly a counterexample to your claim that "there is no delineation between typical modern humans of various races that cannot be said to be sociocultural"?

Sure, it does. But bearing my late day qualification in mind I can't see anything in the article that talks about any sort of psychological capacity or propensity, let alone differences that cannot be said to be sociocultural.

There is no "essentialist" type delineation between races or populations that holds up, but the possibility of statistical differences in some traits (as with sexes) can't be ruled out at this point.

I agree - though I would point out that the reason I brought the topic up in the way I did was in response to Linus suggesting racial differences were a hot topic of EP - when my experience is that they do not have a lot to say on the issue.

[deLurch]

They're basically having slapfights over cable news, the same way PZ does on twitter.

My default position is that most editorialists are crap. They don't report news. And the majority play fast & loose with facts to make their point.

[deLurch]

Fortunately this one is embarrasingly easy to provide a citation for. I hope someone can be bothered, if only so I can watch the tumbleweeds when Nerd mysteriously goes quiet.

I suspect that people view Red Nerd to be such an idiot, that no one cares what it thinks so no one will bother. And anyone who did care about facts has already been chased off of Paul Myer's blog.

[Dick Strawkins]

Fortunately this one is embarrasingly easy to provide a citation for. I hope someone can be bothered, if only so I can watch the tumbleweeds when Nerd mysteriously goes quiet.

I suspect that people view Red Nerd to be such an idiot, that no one cares what it thinks so no one will bother. And anyone who did care about facts has already been chased off of Paul Myer's blog.

Nerd was a toxic idiot right from the outset. His standard responses have switched from his original style of simply insulting outsiders, to his current, "claim asserted without evidence, floosh", stock reply.
I agree that the others there probably do see him as some kind of idiot, but at the same time feel some kind of gratitude for all the in-group clique reinforcement he's done over the years.

[Guest]

Christ, I saw people on Something Awful buying right into Pissy's Rape Accusations against Michael Shermer. They were saying shit along the lines of "Why is the Atheist community so full of horrible misogynists!?" "Well, PZ Myers seems to be a fine, upstanding gentleman!"

Sad to see, considering it used to be a great shock humor site responsible for this:

http://www.somethingawful.com/news/few-words-on-2/

:(