Bleeding from the Bunghole

[Aneris]

Congrats Abbie! That's awesome. :)

Other topic. I can't find an issue with asking fans or followers of a public person to support them financially. In earlier times, people would print or press their stuff onto some artifact and sell that, but things have changed. It is completely okay to do stuff, give it away for free and ask people for support. Now, if the issue has to do with the product being offered, it would be imposing views onto others. Its like saying some music/book/video etc can't be sold because someone personally doesn't like it and find it not worth it. But nobody is forced to support some person.

Provided that I don't like Watson at all, for her views and behaviour, its an odd role to defend her again. But that's really an irrational issue. I also don't see the (alleged) laziness issue. It is mostly unknown what people actually do. They may have to deal with other stuff. Even if they didn't work as much as someone else or not at all, I wonder why they have to live up to someone elses expectations. Some people need more security and want more money and are willing to sacrifice something else for it. Others are okay with less, and value perhaps their freedom some more and sacrifice career and a sense of security with it. Then there is the notion of what is considered work. Some people believe that without sweat and blood it's not work. Sitting all day moving some small object around that is connected to a computer isn't work, they say. Reading and writing isn't work etc. Please don't be such a person. And I know you aren't generally, but please don't let disagreement and antipathy get the better of you.

[Southern]

Oh, and I just want to say: silly Dr. Smith. You may get your degree and defend your thesis and whatnot, but you will never be the modern equivalent of Charles Darwin. Suck it, you working class slave with your degree and your formal education and your job and your research - copypasta on blogs, that's where real intelectual freedom is.

[Lsuoma]

Hey. I passed my defense.

:P

Abbie, well done and welcome to the illustrious ranks of Pit PhDs. Just bear in mind that Richard "Aircraft" Carrier, PZ "Sleazy" Myers, and many, many others have PhDs. It doesn't make you immune from being an arsehole, and in my experience, the proportion of arseholes is significantly higher among our ranks than the general run-of-the-mill humans. In fact, I believe the ratio is only exceeded among the ranks of traffic wardens and politicians.

[Lsuoma]

Hey. I passed my defense.

:P

Congratulations, Dr Smith!

Dr Smith you say?

http://disneybear.com/images/WeAreBack_ ... mith11.jpg

Dr ZACHARY Smith, no less...

[Lsuoma]

Hmmm, seems that women can be harassers too:

http://www.freezepage.com/1382141881FJACBJEWZS

Good on Zvan for posting this.

Definitely. Thanks for posting this.

[James Caruthers]

They're all throwing Bora under the bus:

http://scientopia.org/blogs/drugmonkey/ ... he-plague/

Don't touch them. Don't talk to them. Don't e-mail them. Don't look at them.

Kinda glad that I don't go to conferences ... I think they're going to be more boring than watching paint dry.

Only if you have a dick. The women can do anything they fucking want. Drink all the booze, flash their tits, climb into a guy's lap and tease him for an hour.

But the minute the guy tries to have sex, RAPIST.

Basically, avoid SJW feminists like the plague at atheist conferences.

I have a very interesting tale of real-life SJWism trying to take over a movement before it even gets off the fucking ground, but I'll save that longer post for when I'm not coming down off a caffeine high and 36-hour all-nighter. :lol: I never drink caffeine, either. So when this shit hits my bloodstream, it's like I'm on crank. :P

[Lsuoma]

Oh god... my committee was four men and one woman... #ripplesofdoubt

LOL

It seems presumptions to even address someone who I see as a legend from the elder days.

But FWIW - congrats! I have friends who have gone thru the PhD ringer, fearsome stuff.

Anything likw the management training course ringer?

[youtube]fPd9vWraDJs[/youtube]

[James Caruthers]

Rebecca Watson seems to be aging in every video at an exponential rate. I no longer believe even alcohol abuse is enough to do this. She looks really bad, very haggard, and then she comes online begging for money.

Some man sitting on a street corner wearing a designer jersey and gold chains is about to make an assload of money off of Becky's fans.

[bovarchist]

Rebecca Watson's future...revealed!

[youtube]cDkEXszYtdo[/youtube]

[didymos]

Rebecca Watson seems to be aging in every video at an exponential rate. I no longer believe even alcohol abuse is enough to do this.

It's all the misogyny. Hell on collagen.

[Service Dog]

http://i.imgur.com/8kNHoPk.png

That image is ugly.
(Not as ugly as Amanda Marcotte inventing the term "Semen Toilet" then falsely attributing it to men.)

The concept seemed viable-- toilet costumes exist, Ophelia thinks she's a toilet, how can it miss?

But, playing with the elements, I noticed a paradox:
~Putting the plumbing on her head looked so cruel and nasty.
I guess I don't like thinking of women as toilets. Who knew?
~Yet, without the plumbing on her head, it looks less ugly. But then the message really-is that she's a toilet/even when she's just being a person/ not-only when she has toilets-on-the-brain.

The composition is lopsided, and I doodled-around with the background rectangle shapes to balance it, but I thought 'this is taking too long'/ 'there's no satisfying pay-off'/ 'it's a bummer to look at.'
Posted it anyway, just because.
Lesson learned: if my slapdash shit doesn't -click- immediately, FLOOSH it and forget it.

I just watched Iron Man 3. I have #RipplesOfDoubt about Tony Stark.
Am I Social Justicing right? Isn't there some thingie about how imaginary comic book characters cause science dongles to rape funky punky spunky gamer girl science communicators or something? And me bitching about Iron Man 3 like totally helps.

I don't know if I have any appetite to read Stephanie Zvan's latest Fat Girl Drama
Even gossip has a social pecking order, same as in 8th grade. And Fat Girl Drama-mongering is still low low quality fare. Zvan writing "I'm a good listener" is code for "I'm a vampire for misery". Ugly stuff.

[Pitchguest]

LYCHEE MARTINIS! NOW I AM GOING TO SLEEP!

Pro-tip: Future ruler of the planet loves lychee and goes to sleep early.

GOD WHAT IS WRONG WITH REBECCA WATSONS HEAD? But the youtube video had an ad for Icebreakers and that reminded me I want to buy some of their socks from Sierra Trading post.

Also, Christie Wilcox HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This latest fiasco is like a time machine. Its weird.

Haha. What's that song by Simple Plan again? :lol:

Reading through Christie's blog post, I noticed this bit and I couldn't help but laugh - just for the incredulity of it all:

I distinctly remember the last time I was really uncomfortable, when something so humiliating happened that it pierced through my near-impenetrable barrier. It was at a lab function a few months ago, where about a dozen of my labmates and I were out at a bar drinking with one of the co-PIs of our lab. Everyone was a couple beers in, having a great time, when a woman—a complete stranger—walked up to the group. “Is that your husband?” she asked me, pointing to my co-PI. Everyone laughed. “No,” I said, laughing as well. The idea was absurd and hilarious. “Is that your husband, then?” she asked, pointing to another labmate. Again, laughter ensued. “No, she’s not married,” my labmates explained. “Really?” the woman asked, incredulous. Something about her reaction, her demeanor, triggered my instinctual warning system. The hairs on the back of my neck stood up, even before she said: “That is hard to believe, because you have the most incredible tits I’ve ever seen.”

It’s hard to describe how that statement landed in my brain. It was as if the crowded bar went silent and the air dropped ten degrees. Around me, everyone was still laughing and having a good time, but instantly the joke wasn’t funny anymore. I felt exposed and uncomfortable. I wanted to run, but I froze instead. Then, she went one step further. “Can I feel them?”

I know what I should have said. I know how I should have reacted. But in that moment all I could hear was the amused shock of everyone around me, the round of snorts and giggles at her brazen question. These are my labmates, people I see every day, people whose opinions matter to me. We were all having fun, joking around. I didn’t want to make a scene. I didn’t want to ruin the party. I didn’t want to make a big deal of it. So, I didn’t. Instead, I let a complete stranger grope me in front of a dozen or so of my coworkers. Afterwards, I wanted to curl into a ball and cry. But I held back the tears, lifted my chin, smiled, and laughed about it with everyone else.

As for the people there that night, I don’t think any of them have a clue how I really reacted. Unless they read this post, they will continue to think it was a silly, funny story from a night of lab debauchery. Remember that time that woman asked to grab Christie’s tits? Yeah, that was hilarious!

In retrospect, I’m not sure what bothers me more—the fact that this woman felt it was ok to ask a complete stranger if she could cop a feel, or that she (I’m fairly sure) intended to ask my supposed husband if it was ok instead, as if my opinion on the matter of my own breasts was secondary to some man’s. If I hadn’t been with coworkers, I probably would have brushed off the entire interaction, told her to fuck off or simply ignored her in the first place. She isn’t the first stranger to ask—in public—if she can feel my breasts, and I’m fairly certain she won’t be the last. But I was with a group of people that I value professionally, and to be degraded like that in front of them made sick to my stomach.

What is it with these people and their complete and total inability to loudly and clearly say 'no' to unwanted advances?

What's more, her fainting couch approach to sexual harassment seems awfully hypocritical and almost comical if Zvan's account about Christie is to be believed. However, even in Zvan's blog post, there is an utter lack of agency present -- or a spinal cord, whichever you prefer -- that could've easily manifested itself but for some reason didn't. To wit:

In this case, Christie had flirted–consensually to start with–with our common friend. When Christie made it clear that she took the flirtation seriously, our friend informed her that he did not. Christie did not take “No” for an answer. She continued to send frequent and inappropriate text messages. (Not that it matters in terms of whether Christie’s advances were wanted, but both of my friends whom she targeted are married and monogamous.)

Then came ScienceOnline 2012. By this point, I and a small number of other people knew enough about what was happening to run interference between Christie and my friend. That seemed to be mostly successful, until she showed up at his hotel room one night “to talk”. Then she got into his bed, and he ended up sleeping in the armchair in the room because he didn’t want to leave her alone with his things and didn’t have phone numbers for people he knew mostly online. He sat there, paralyzed and disbelieving, like so many targets of harassment who can’t believe that these events can really be happening to them.

What?

What prevented him from telling her to get off the bed? What prevented him from telling her to the fuck out of his room?

Am I missing something here? Bloody hell. To be honest, I don't really care that much and as far as I'm concerned the twits deserve eachother, but good LORD is it annoying. You cannot be that stupid and still be designated as self-aware. You just can't.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Oh god... my committee was four men and one woman... #ripplesofdoubt

LOL

Good for you!

Hopefully an easier defense than the one described by my high school English teacher (an ex-monk & great influence on me) at the university of Leyden. He was heading for his appt, walking down a portico'd hallway. Turned a corner and there were four professors, sitting at a table in robes and wigs. He stood before them and was grilled for 3+ hours in Dutch, Latin and Greek.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Letting strangers fondle you breasts -- letting stalkers steal you hotel room -- body shots and finger fucks in bars --
What, are people all characters out of THE NIGHT PORTER?

[Guest]

There's a reddit group http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights whose sole job is to denounce things that appear in /r/mensrights and occasionally elsewhere around the net.

They are mostly pathetic, and I'm not saying that because I am an subscriber to http://www.reddit.com/r/mensrights I am saying that because you watch what they focus on and 99% of the time it's pathetic and formulaic, cherry picked, and often downright badly interpreted or intentionally misinterpreted and misreported.



The peg AVFM for some SEO URL shenanigans, namely the URL to an article about the myth of black deadbeats is:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/al ... -deadbeat/

A url which contains the names of the people at ABC that did the reporting against them and so it's meant by AVFM to be this killer article they want to appear if someone searches for the episode.

Oh well, a pox all around.

[Pitchguest]

Oh yeah, before I go to bed, I just want to extend my congratulations to Abbie as well. Congrats!

Now when you're finished with cancer, Abbie, you going for HIV next?

[Guest]

Goodbye Enemy Janine

17 October 2013 at 6:16 pm (UTC -5)

Rutee Katreya, please keep in mind; there is a lot of overlap of AVfM and other MRAs and the ‘pitters. Yes, many people who are regulars cannot help but to be interested.

I think I will be watching 20/20 for the first time in fifteen years.

The whole "Slymepitters are MRA misogynists" thing is so bizarre. Of all the Slymepitters, only Mykeru, AndrewV69, and Jack Rayner were ever associated with the MRA movement, right? And didn't Andrew and Mykeru have a falling out with them?

Seriously, I see people on Twitter saying that the Slymepit is this horrible bastion of misogyny and MRA nastiness, and I just have to wonder what universe they're living in.

[didymos]

Uh-oh. Laden is mad at Steffy:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-298029

[Service Dog]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... #more-6239

Greg Laden turns on Stephanie Zvan, denies Zvan's claim that women can harass men too.
Then Laden makes excuses for an alleged serial sexual assailant, and voices his concern that a woman in grad school's career might be harmed!

http://i.imgur.com/iOArXe3.png

http://i.imgur.com/6kYvbkl.png

[LurkerPerson]

I can't imagine Greg Laden having personal experience of being sexually harassed by any woman, for the very obvious reason that he is totally repulsive. But then again he's married, so love must really be blind.

[Liesmith]

What prevented him from telling her to get off the bed? What prevented him from telling her to the fuck out of his room?

Am I missing something here? Bloody hell. To be honest, I don't really care that much and as far as I'm concerned the twits deserve eachother, but good LORD is it annoying. You cannot be that stupid and still be designated as self-aware. You just can't.

I can understand calling security on a stranger doing something like that, but if you consider the person a friend, or the friend of a friend, you may not want to do anything to get them in trouble if you think that patience will allow the situation to resolve on its own with a minimum of effort. Likewise, you may not want to be aggressive to them if you believe they'd accuse you of assault for putting a hand on their shoulder.

I was in a similar situation one time, after a bad blind date that wound up with my date drunkenly passed out draped across me in her bed (we were both fully clothed, nothing untoward was happening). I didn't really have any idea what the right thing to do was. I was afraid that if I tried to move her off of me, that'd be the moment that she'd wake up, or her roommate would stumble in and assume I was doing something wrong. All it would really take was a word from her, and I could've wound up in extremely deep trouble. So, I was stuck there until she woke up in the morning. It was a really bad date.

[didymos]

You gotta love this Ladenism:

"The first person that tells me that I’m trying to silence anyone will likely get told to shut up by me, because that is not what I’m suggesting."

[Gefan]

...Don't touch them. Don't talk to them. Don't e-mail them. Don't look at them.

If it refers to Social Justice Warriors I'm actually fine with that suggestion.

[Gefan]

Hey. I passed my defense.

:P

Congratulations!

Additional congratulations for doing so on the same day Beckybooze stumbles in front of the camera to commence e-begging (positively poetic, that).

[Guest]

What prevented him from telling her to get off the bed? What prevented him from telling her to the fuck out of his room?

Am I missing something here? Bloody hell. To be honest, I don't really care that much and as far as I'm concerned the twits deserve eachother, but good LORD is it annoying. You cannot be that stupid and still be designated as self-aware. You just can't.

I can understand calling security on a stranger doing something like that, but if you consider the person a friend, or the friend of a friend, you may not want to do anything to get them in trouble if you think that patience will allow the situation to resolve on its own with a minimum of effort. Likewise, you may not want to be aggressive to them if you believe they'd accuse you of assault for putting a hand on their shoulder.

I was in a similar situation one time, after a bad blind date that wound up with my date drunkenly passed out draped across me in her bed (we were both fully clothed, nothing untoward was happening). I didn't really have any idea what the right thing to do was. I was afraid that if I tried to move her off of me, that'd be the moment that she'd wake up, or her roommate would stumble in and assume I was doing something wrong. All it would really take was a word from her, and I could've wound up in extremely deep trouble. So, I was stuck there until she woke up in the morning. It was a really bad date.

But presumably Christie wasn't his date if we are to believe this FOAF, Christie had been serially harassing this guy and this guy had made it plain he didn't like it.

At that point at 2am, you shove her out the door or call the hotel to do it, or call the cops.

If you let her sleep in your bed while you sleep in the chair out of some sense of kinship, you don't tell a cock and bull story that you were afraid to leave the room. If you are that afraid you have no difficulty calling hotel security on her.

[Gefan]

Rebecca Watson seems to be aging in every video at an exponential rate. I no longer believe even alcohol abuse is enough to do this. She looks really bad, very haggard, and then she comes online begging for money.

Is it possible that, somewhere, there is a portrait of Watson's mother that is actually getting younger at an accelerating rate?

[katamari Damassi]

Hey. I passed my defense.

:P

But you're a woman. How did you trick the patriarchy?

[mordacious1]

It's nice that Christie has a knight in shit-stained armor to stand up for her. Greg "I tried to ruin Abbie's career" Laden is worried that the black Svan might ruin Christie's career. What a little prick he is.

[Skep tickle]

Congratulations, Abbie!!!!

:clap: :dance: :clap: :dance:

[AndrewV69]

Goodbye Enemy Janine

17 October 2013 at 6:16 pm (UTC -5)

Rutee Katreya, please keep in mind; there is a lot of overlap of AVfM and other MRAs and the ‘pitters. Yes, many people who are regulars cannot help but to be interested.

I think I will be watching 20/20 for the first time in fifteen years.

The whole "Slymepitters are MRA misogynists" thing is so bizarre. Of all the Slymepitters, only Mykeru, AndrewV69, and Jack Rayner were ever associated with the MRA movement, right? And didn't Andrew and Mykeru have a falling out with them?

Seriously, I see people on Twitter saying that the Slymepit is this horrible bastion of misogyny and MRA nastiness, and I just have to wonder what universe they're living in.

As far as I know I never had a falling out with AVfM. But that is not too surprising seeing as I only occasionally read more than the first paragraph or so past the headers, and I can not recall when last I left a comment there.

I have other interests and the Slymepit consumes a disproportionate amount of my discretionary time. So quite often I have to choose between AVfM and other topics such as population genetics, HDB, antropology etc. etc. hence they get only a small portion of my time.

[Guest]

As far as I know I never had a falling out with AVfM. But that is not too surprising seeing as I only occasionally read more than the first paragraph or so past the headers, and I can not recall when last I left a comment there.

I have other interests and the Slymepit consumes a disproportionate amount of my discretionary time. So quite often I have to choose between AVfM and other topics such as population genetics, HDB, antropology etc. etc. hence they get only a small portion of my time.

Oops, my mistake. But still, the number of MRA/MRA-associated members here is pretty small.

[Dick Strawkins]

http://www.freezepage.com/1382165215XZSQLWBBMF

Freezepage of the Laden-Svan meltdown.

Svans high school mean girls act is coming back to bite her on the ass.

Her petty vindictive revenge post seems to heve been done without her usual meticulous planning - she let's slip a very revealing point:

Svan describes incidents of two people being 'sexual assaulted' and another incident of 'ongoing harassment', all perpetrated by the same person.

Considering the flareups over TAM and other skeptic/atheist meetings, and the apparent lack of evidence clear cases of sexual harassment coming out of these meetings despite the rumors and claims, you would think that knowing about a serial harasser and assaulter (with multiple witnesses!) would immediately prompt Steffie to jump into action. Perhaps organize a petition or two, maybe a letter writing campaign. Or how about circulating a secret list of harassers that would be made known to meeting attendees that might fall victim to this monster?

If only Svan had found out before this week, she might have been able to do something about it.

So, when did she find out?

Just after ScienceOnline 2011, I received an email from a friend in the community. This was in the middle of the kind of (generally productive) discussion on sexism that ScienceOnline has often sparked. Christie had written a post about dealing with sexism that was being lauded, and my friend needed to vent. His experience with Christie at ScienceOnline the year before had been nothing to laud. I’ll quote from the email here, with some small changes to preserve privacy.

During the sea shanty singing (which had to be moved from the bar to the empty restaurant), Christie was kind of moving around the table behind all the people sitting and singing. I was sitting and singing. She came up from behind me and kissed me on the mouth. I shoved her away. She said, “Jerk,” and leaned over and kissed the woman next to me on the mouth. I won’t speak for the woman involved, but she shoved her off pretty quick too. I didn’t know what to do, so I kept singing and tried to have a good time.

Sadly, as is all too often the case, my friend needed reassurance that something wrong had happened, even though he’d just been sexually assaulted and witnessed another assault. I gave it to him, and we both moved on thinking it was an isolated, drunken event.

Several months later, I was talking with a female friend of mine who needed to rant. (Yes, this is a common occurrence in my life. I listen well.) She was helping a common friend of ours deal with an ongoing harassment situation involving Christie.

In this case, Christie had flirted–consensually to start with–with our common friend. When Christie made it clear that she took the flirtation seriously, our friend informed her that he did not. Christie did not take “No” for an answer. She continued to send frequent and inappropriate text messages. (Not that it matters in terms of whether Christie’s advances were wanted, but both of my friends whom she targeted are married and monogamous.)

Wait a second...
Science Online 2011?
That was a meeting held in January 2011.
And the friends rant that revealing the ongoing harassment happened "several months later".
Which places all of this as occuring previous to Elevatorgate and the subsequent flareup over harassment and safety at meetings - an online debate in which Svan was a major participant.

And yet she chose to remain silent over this matter all the time until now?
She wouldn't have had to name anyone (not that she has much trouble with doing that in the past) but simply acknowledging the facts that she knew - that there was a female perpetrator of sexual assaults who was a regular at these meetings - would have done something to dispel the damaging myth that the dangers were a one way street, with men being the perpetrators and women the victims.

It is also illuminating to see Chris Clarke in her comment section saying the following:

About 20 years ago I was sexually harassed by a woman who was my co-worker at the time. It was unpleasant in the extreme. As I said to Stephanie on the Twitter, it’s really hard to bring up the topic without sounding like a goddamn MRA.

And why do you think you sound like an MRA, Chris, when you tell the truth about your own experience?

You don't think it has anything to do with the party line perpetuated at Pharyngula, Skepchick, Almost Diamonds, and Butterflies and Wheels, that mentioning problems men experience is trying to make it "all about the menz"?
:think:

[Guest]

Who are these goddamn MRAs?

They are the victims Chris, Stephanie, PeeZus, Greg, Christina, Rebecca, CuntFace and the rest have been blaming.

[Quiz]

Whenever I think about the current state of the FTB, this song comes to mind

[youtube]9tBaMlAUj08[/youtube]

[Skep tickle]

Christie Wilcox (whoever she is) puts up a post saying that "that side of [Bora] has been there all along. From day one he seemed a bit awkward, a little too touchy-feely. I’ve always gotten a bit of a vibe, but as I have learned to do through years of being a woman, I ignored it, just like I ignored the hearsay."

(Then, bizarrely, CW tells the story about how she let "a complete stranger" - a woman who made her uncomfortable (and who behaved in a socially inappropriate manner) - feel her breasts? And did so after the woman asked, "Can I feel them?", to which presumably CW could have said "NO". WTF???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!)

Then Stephanie Zvan puts up her post "One More Thing" http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ore-thing/.

Sure, it's a reasonable thing to react to harassment by women as well as to harassment by men. But this is classic Zvan. She's the judgmental biddy out to punish someone, who presents herself as the reluctant heroine who has been trying to fix this behind the scenes but who was forced to expose this shameful person.

In her post, she's the good guy, the one others come to when they have concerns, who has learned about this from several different people and was keeping them safe, keeping their secret.

She now feels she must say something. So she puts up this "tell all" post (to which two people in her comments object, saying it's not Zvan's story to tell, that CW was protecting one of the people she's accused by Zvan of harassing (the hotel room guy? not clear), etc).

Zvan understands and has been monitoring the other person's behavior ("The trend toward having harassment policies in place has mitigated Christie’s behavior somewhat. ... That Christie’s behavior changed after the policy was adopted [in 2013] tells me she knows it was out of line.")

Zvan has communicated behind the scenes to let a leader in the area know that Zvan is saving the day, and has that leader's approval.

And readers shouldn't reveal any further details, including names, because that might hurt someone. (The amount of detail Zvan revealed was just the right amount.}

_____

Regarding Laden & Zvan in the comments of this post of Zvan's:

:popcorn:

[Brive1987]

Congrats Abbie! That's awesome. :)

Other topic. I can't find an issue with asking fans or followers of a public person to support them financially. In earlier times, people would print or press their stuff onto some artifact and sell that, but things have changed. It is completely okay to do stuff, give it away for free and ask people for support. Now, if the issue has to do with the product being offered, it would be imposing views onto others. Its like saying some music/book/video etc can't be sold because someone personally doesn't like it and find it not worth it. But nobody is forced to support some person.

Provided that I don't like Watson at all, for her views and behaviour, its an odd role to defend her again. But that's really an irrational issue. I also don't see the (alleged) laziness issue. It is mostly unknown what people actually do. They may have to deal with other stuff. Even if they didn't work as much as someone else or not at all, I wonder why they have to live up to someone elses expectations. Some people need more security and want more money and are willing to sacrifice something else for it. Others are okay with less, and value perhaps their freedom some more and sacrifice career and a sense of security with it. Then there is the notion of what is considered work. Some people believe that without sweat and blood it's not work. Sitting all day moving some small object around that is connected to a computer isn't work, they say. Reading and writing isn't work etc. Please don't be such a person. And I know you aren't generally, but please don't let disagreement and antipathy get the better of you.

"Please don't be such a person". Once again you cannot simply put your view forward and perhaps question alternative standpoints to probe and maybe learn something. No, you feel compelled to lecture and instruct, albeit politely, which immediately skews the discussion. I assume this is an unconscious foible, but you might like to be aware of it.

Let me take a breath. Ok.

1. No one is making a general values base judgement on not working. Hell there are many worthwhile things I could do if I wasn't pushing a mouse around. But i might look on with arched eyebrows if someone was significantly materially impacted by voluntarily not working. I might be concerned if I saw potential future hardship by their playing all summer. I might get involved if this decision impacted their family and they were my friend, I probably would apply a negative values based adjective to them. Because judged by my values I find their approach wanting. But they are as free to have an alternative values system as I am to judge them by mine.

2. However in this case we are talking RW. Obviously many of us find her a negatively compelling human factor in this whole schism. Mostly cause we suspect, unlike Bensen and others, that she is particularly two faced, cunning, opportunistic and a strange void of sorts.

So we acknowledge the manipulation of her sexuality to further her goals and contrast that to a subjective view of her looks. We examine her double standards and mock her narcissistic view on the world. We comment on her apparent inability or conscious decision to not engage with the real world and consider whether this is cause or effect re her strange behaviour. We note the strange situation where fans are prepared to pay her for self described fart joke videos, and question a world view that makes her think this is an acceptable and viable way to earn money. We consider all these things because they help explain the weird enigma of the know-nothing charlatan who has screwed so much of value.

And because we hate what she has done to feminism, skepticism, atheism, because we hate the division she has pursued to further her personal goals and because we are amongst friends here, we discuss all this in a particularly FUCKING rude and direct manner.

[Reap]

I can't imagine Greg Laden having personal experience of being sexually harassed by any woman, for the very obvious reason that he is totally repulsive. But then again he's married, so love must really be blind.

Blind and incredibly tolerant of stupidity

[Guest]

I really am shocked that with all the phds and analysts and all the degrees over at ftb and skepchick and anywhere else social justice warriors play, and for all the hot air they blow about defending others, how little they remember or care about the rights of the individual.

All of these Internet name and shame campaigns make me puke.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B02RDDb ... edit?pli=1

http://i.imgur.com/7IYi9af.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/0y7X5IG.jpg

[Guest]

http://i.imgur.com/HxLog2x.jpg

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I will give kuddos to Watson for the quality of her latest video. It looks very professional (there is no actual snark in that observation. The image quality is very good indeed).

Oh, and Abbie: yeah, cool, get a job! (that was a snarknado. Many congratulations and many good things to come!)

[Ape+lust]

...But this is classic Zvan. She's the judgmental biddy out to punish someone, who presents herself as the reluctant heroine who has been trying to fix this behind the scenes but who was forced to expose this shameful person.

Haha, she's a galling one isn't she? She wrote earlier she sprung tears learning the man who got her over her Imposter Syndrome was a creeper. C'mon, tears? Only if she punched herself in the face. And I doubt Bora figured in her current Empress of North America Syndrome, unless she had amnesia for a week and Bora got her groove back.

And GOOOOOO ABBIE!!! Excuse me... I mean, Doctor Smith! :clap: :dance:

[Ape+lust]

Photoshoppers taking the piss out of "cultural appropriation" of Halloween costumes. Scroll a bit before the jokes kick in:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/8892 ... 6c84_o.png

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tony, you should rent yourself out to parties. You'd never do without.

[Trophy]

On other news, I got a big LOL on Jerry Coyne complaining about bad lyrics specially since he likes Beatles who produced lyrical masterpieces such as "You say yes, I say no. You say stop and I say go, go, go. Oh, no You say goodbye and I say hello.", " We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine", "O-bla-di, o-bla-da, life goes on, brah", and probably the cheesiest lyrics sang to any song in the known universe, "Treasure these few words 'till we're together. Keep all my love forever P.S., I love you. You, you, you".

[Badger3k]

Congrats Abbie! That's awesome. :)

Other topic. I can't find an issue with asking fans or followers of a public person to support them financially. In earlier times, people would print or press their stuff onto some artifact and sell that, but things have changed. It is completely okay to do stuff, give it away for free and ask people for support. Now, if the issue has to do with the product being offered, it would be imposing views onto others. Its like saying some music/book/video etc can't be sold because someone personally doesn't like it and find it not worth it. But nobody is forced to support some person.

Provided that I don't like Watson at all, for her views and behaviour, its an odd role to defend her again. But that's really an irrational issue. I also don't see the (alleged) laziness issue. It is mostly unknown what people actually do. They may have to deal with other stuff. Even if they didn't work as much as someone else or not at all, I wonder why they have to live up to someone elses expectations. Some people need more security and want more money and are willing to sacrifice something else for it. Others are okay with less, and value perhaps their freedom some more and sacrifice career and a sense of security with it. Then there is the notion of what is considered work. Some people believe that without sweat and blood it's not work. Sitting all day moving some small object around that is connected to a computer isn't work, they say. Reading and writing isn't work etc. Please don't be such a person. And I know you aren't generally, but please don't let disagreement and antipathy get the better of you.

"Please don't be such a person". Once again you cannot simply put your view forward and perhaps question alternative standpoints to probe and maybe learn something. No, you feel compelled to lecture and instruct, albeit politely, which immediately skews the discussion. I assume this is an unconscious foible, but you might like to be aware of it.

Let me take a breath. Ok.

1. No one is making a general values base judgement on not working. Hell there are many worthwhile things I could do if I wasn't pushing a mouse around. But i might look on with arched eyebrows if someone was significantly materially impacted by voluntarily not working. I might be concerned if I saw potential future hardship by their playing all summer. I might get involved if this decision impacted their family and they were my friend, I probably would apply a negative values based adjective to them. Because judged by my values I find their approach wanting. But they are as free to have an alternative values system as I am to judge them by mine.

2. However in this case we are talking RW. Obviously many of us find her a negatively compelling human factor in this whole schism. Mostly cause we suspect, unlike Bensen and others, that she is particularly two faced, cunning, opportunistic and a strange void of sorts.

So we acknowledge the manipulation of her sexuality to further her goals and contrast that to a subjective view of her looks. We examine her double standards and mock her narcissistic view on the world. We comment on her apparent inability or conscious decision to not engage with the real world and consider whether this is cause or effect re her strange behaviour. We note the strange situation where fans are prepared to pay her for self described fart joke videos, and question a world view that makes her think this is an acceptable and viable way to earn money. We consider all these things because they help explain the weird enigma of the know-nothing charlatan who has screwed so much of value.

And because we hate what she has done to feminism, skepticism, atheism, because we hate the division she has pursued to further her personal goals and because we are amongst friends here, we discuss all this in a particularly FUCKING rude and direct manner.

If someone chooses to eschew work of any kind (even the work of producing art), and wants to make a living sponging and parasitizing others, then I am going to judge them on that. Even Squirrelly Amy makes something, even if most of us think it is crap. Since when did being lazy and parasitizing others become a virtue? What society has such values?

[Reap]

I will give kuddos to Watson for the quality of her latest video. It looks very professional (there is no actual snark in that observation. The image quality is very good indeed).

Oh, and Abbie: yeah, cool, get a job! (that was a snarknado. Many congratulations and many good things to come!)

The image quality is too good. I'm not just talking shit when I say the first thing that I noticed was she isn't aging well. I would suggest taking it a bit easier on the drinking maybe, not that I know her habits but I do know what too much drinking can do to a persons...appearance. Like I said I'm not talking shit , just suggesting. I guess she must have lost out on a shitload of money at Dragon-Con huh? Since she is looking for an alternate cash flow.

[ianfc]

Some very good advice from Erin on Zvan's More About Bora (updated), although they are worried it might appear as victim blaming.

33
Erin (formerly--formally?-- known as EEB)

October 18, 2013 at 7:02 pm (UTC -5)

@ Oolon & Stephanie, 11 &12

<Snip>

When I was thirteen, maybe fourteen, my mother gave me her “man” advice: “If you’re in a conversation with a married man who says, ‘My wife doesn’t understand me,’ leave immediately and get far away.”...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-297834

[Za-zen]

once more with feeling...
[youtube]WU0TeJugp5Y[/youtube]

Did Twatson claim in this "feed me" plea, that she took two years off of making youtube vids, to do something that paid the bills?!

She is utterly delusional.

[Za-zen]

I'm disgusted by her abelism, she obviously thinks fart jokes are A-OK. Does she not realize how demeaning this is to people with irritable bowel syndrome! She is a shame enabler.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm disgusted by her abelism, she obviously thinks fart jokes are A-OK. Does she not realize how demeaning this is to people with irritable bowel syndrome! She is a shame enabler.

I have IBS, so I tots understand your grief! Free internet hugs?

I think her haircut is playing against her. She looks a bit tired, but not much older than what I remember. I'd say she looks her age, but yet again, I look like I had a very friendly relationship with a T-Rex, and not the nice creationist kind.

[Za-zen]

[youtube]LOS5gWzkXMA[/youtube]

[Guest]

Some very good advice from Erin on Zvan's More About Bora (updated), although they are worried it might appear as victim blaming.

33
Erin (formerly--formally?-- known as EEB)

October 18, 2013 at 7:02 pm (UTC -5)

@ Oolon & Stephanie, 11 &12

<Snip>

When I was thirteen, maybe fourteen, my mother gave me her “man” advice: “If you’re in a conversation with a married man who says, ‘My wife doesn’t understand me,’ leave immediately and get far away.”...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-297834

Even with that, Erin is worried this may be victim blaming:

(If in any way this sounds like I am blaming the victims of harassment, or implying that they should have “known better” or something, that is not my intent at all. No way. I’m just pointing out that some “techniques”, if you can call it that, seem to be eternal.)

[Guest]

http://i.imgur.com/qYshRl4.jpg

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... itics.html

More at the link

[Brive1987]

I will give kuddos to Watson for the quality of her latest video. It looks very professional (there is no actual snark in that observation. The image quality is very good indeed).

Oh, and Abbie: yeah, cool, get a job! (that was a snarknado. Many congratulations and many good things to come!)

The image quality is too good. I'm not just talking shit when I say the first thing that I noticed was she isn't aging well. I would suggest taking it a bit easier on the drinking maybe, not that I know her habits but I do know what too much drinking can do to a persons...appearance. Like I said I'm not talking shit , just suggesting. I guess she must have lost out on a shitload of money at Dragon-Con huh? Since she is looking for an alternate cash flow.

So far she gets $70 per video from 16 patrons. Jesus wept.

Become a $100 per video patron and you get a 1 on 1 Skype chat with her.

The horror, the horror.

http://www.patreon.com/rebecca

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Google Hangout
$200 per Video
I'll host a Google Hangout with all my Patrons! The Hangout will last a minimum of 30 minutes and I will be drinking

Err, don't do that?

[Badger3k]

Google Hangout
$200 per Video
I'll host a Google Hangout with all my Patrons! The Hangout will last a minimum of 30 minutes and I will be drinking

Err, don't do that?

But, how else is she going to handle the sexualization that the men will surely be doing to her. How can she cope with the hate? Even if these come from people who paid money for her, the probably did it just so they can rape her with their mind.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Google Hangout
$200 per Video
I'll host a Google Hangout with all my Patrons! The Hangout will last a minimum of 30 minutes and I will be drinking

Err, don't do that?

Edited for comedy timing.

[Ape+lust]

So far she gets $70 per video from 16 patrons. Jesus wept.

Become a $100 per video patron and you get a 1 on 1 Skype chat with her.

The horror, the horror.

http://www.patreon.com/rebecca

Most of it is from a single donation, probably $1000. Now, who would do that?

Check your credit card bills, Mrs Myers.

[Guest]

http://i.imgur.com/5KS0k7C.jpg

[jimthepleb]

Hey. I passed my defense.

:P

Well done Abbie!!
:clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance:

[Gumby]

The whole "Slymepitters are MRA misogynists" thing is so bizarre. Of all the Slymepitters, only Mykeru, AndrewV69, and Jack Rayner were ever associated with the MRA movement, right? And didn't Andrew and Mykeru have a falling out with them?

It's all in how you draw the Venn diagram.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 568500.png