Bleeding from the Bunghole

[paddybrown]

Thankfully Ana, over on Shakesville, has laid my unnuanced understanding of sexual harassment to rest.

Ana Mardoll Moderator
• an hour ago

I don't know how the school in this case defines "sexual harassment", but I work in a place where SH isn't just harassment for/about sex (the act), but also harassment for/about sex (i.e., the sex of the victim). Wikipedia tells me this definition isn't unusual: As defined by the US EEOC, "It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex."

Even if someone balks at calling this act (e.g., unwanted kissing forced by a boy onto a girl) "sexual" because of the ages involved, it seems pretty clear to me that this was done (by the boy) and condoned (by his mother and the media) because of the sex of the girl he was forcing kisses onto. So it's still sexual harassment by the rubrik I'm familiar with (since it's harassment stemming in part from the sex of the victim), even if someone doesn't want to see the act as sexual.

(FTR, I'd consider it sexual harassment if the action was boy-on-boy, because I do file "unwanted kissing" under sexual, but I'm speaking specifically about this case.)

So I guess I'm sexually harassing a woman if I tell her to stop bitching.

http://www.shakesville.com/2013/12/rape ... early.html#

Oh god. It's the old thing again. The flesh is CORRUPT! Physical affection is EVIL! We should live the pure life of the mind and communicate entirely by telepathy. What well-balanced people we're dealing with here.

[Tony Parsehole]

Ha! This is good.

Jezebel posted an article calling out a pop singer for "appropriating Latino culture." Nearly every self-identified Latino in the comments is giving the author shit. They mistakenly assume she's White (she's Black), but the lady was dumb enough to mention she once lived near a Mexican neighborhood and occasionally rode in a low-rider, which sounds like something our dear Melody would say. Anyway, she's getting told she's wrong, she's got a stick up her ass, she's manufacturing outrage, she doesn't know the difference between Latino-Chicano-Gangsta, and her white knighting isn't appreciated. On Jezebel.

http://jezebel.com/dear-lana-del-rey-yo ... 1479863180

*Snigger* This is too fucking good.
The conflation of "Latino gangster culture" with Latino culture is contemptible enough but the fact that the author chose to bemoan Lana Del Ray "wearing teardrop tattoos", "sitting on a porch" and "sucking on lollipops" as "cultural appropriation" (as if those things are an integral part of Latin culture) and not "negative racial stereotypes" speaks volumes about her.

[acathode]

Oh my God, people with different political views! WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!?

I may disagree politically with libertarians but I don't find them as a group to be anywhere near as big of an asshole collective as the SJL.

One of the problems with demonizing groups and casting them out as heretics is that a lot of people are intrigued by heretics these days. So the more they shit on these out-groups the more people who witness this behavior might be inclined to go see what all the fuss is about.

Banning books is the surest way to increase readership.

Right, the Streisand Effect. That's one of the reasons that I don't think the whole SJW thing is going to last very long. The other is that since quite a few SJWs are just obnoxious teenagers from Tumblr, they're eventually gonna grow out of their teen angst and realize they don't have it that bad. Give it a few years, and the kids'll have all moved on to a different fad.

SJWs have been around since at least the 60s, they just get more exposure these days since media for some stupid reason think that 100 angry fuckwits tweeting crap on twitter matters, and because some sites realized it sooo easy to clickbait with SJW bullshit.
Back in "the old days", they had to reach a local critical SJW-mass, so they could arrange demonstrations, student revolts etc, before media would pay them any attention. These days they just go "rabble rabble" on twitter and media go "yay! easy news!".

When they grow up, finish their uni courses, leave their sheltered campuses, and have to worry about finding/keeping a job, they usually get a clue. Unfortunately, at the same time, some new morons will start the same gender study course the old ones just finished, and the fuckwittery will continue.

[Brive1987]

Never had to, but I don't have any in-principle problem with killing for meat. I just wouldn't kill as a hobby.

I don't think (most) hunters are into causing pain. But If the messy bit is not fun/rewarding, why not do it with a camera? Obviously the killing is an integral part of why people find hunting satisfying. And from an urban values environment, I find that a bit ..... creepy.

You don't have any problem with killing, yet you find those who do it creepy? That's doesn't really compute, if you actually didn't have a problem, you wouldn't find killing animals for meat creepy.

I'm sorry for being a whiny bitch about this issue, but it just happens to be a pet peeve of mine, since I grew up on a small farm where I helped kill and butcher our livestock from a young age. Killing animals is perfectly normal, it's how we get meat, ALL meat, including the stuff that you bought at your supermarket. If you find killing animals creepy, then you really shouldn't eat meat.

I really think it should be mandatory for kids to at least once have to visit a farm and a slaughterhouse so they could see step by step where meat actually comes from. There's just way to many people that intellectually might know that the meat they are eating is, as the vegetarians often put it, "a dead animal", but completely lack the emotional knowledge/connection. It would probably lead to a lot more vegetarians... but that's not a bad thing.

I agree with all above. I don't find killing animals creepy per se.

Hence my "I don't have any in-principle problem with killing for meat."

I find people who live urbane lives periodically getting a kick out of extreme violence creepy.

Other than that, bring on the bolt gun and fire up the BBQ.

[Aneris]

I recall this being posted. But I didn't recall that the comic series is literally called Social Justice League. I am glad though that it's the same idea.

http://i1.wp.com/memecollection.net/wp- ... =650%2C683

[DeepInsideYourMind]

]

It collapsed after Svan and Benson doxxed Skep Tickle.

Oh, for chrissakes! It collapsed under its own weight of words, hit carbon detonation, and super-fucking-nova'd. I mean, y'all sent Wonderist up to bat!

I was thinking that. The doxxing was fucking MINOR. The damned thing was just ridiculous.

It was pretty fucking obvious it was going to happen that way ... you cannot reason with people who quite literally filter everything through a warped ideology

The advantage in sending Wonderist was that he was at least equal to them in terms of his ability to make a really simple statement fill a dozen screens and take an hour to read - we at least wasted equal amounts of their time as they did of ours (and by 'ours' I mean the people who naively thought it would be a fruitful outcome)

[TedDahlberg]

You don't have any problem with killing, yet you find those who do it creepy? That's doesn't really compute, if you actually didn't have a problem, you wouldn't find killing animals for meat creepy.

I'm sorry for being a whiny bitch about this issue, but it just happens to be a pet peeve of mine, since I grew up on a small farm where I helped kill and butcher our livestock from a young age. Killing animals is perfectly normal, it's how we get meat, ALL meat, including the stuff that you bought at your supermarket. If you find killing animals creepy, then you really shouldn't eat meat.

I really think it should be mandatory for kids to at least once have to visit a farm and a slaughterhouse so they could see step by step where meat actually comes from. There's just way to many people that intellectually might know that the meat they are eating is, as the vegetarians often put it, "a dead animal", but completely lack the emotional knowledge/connection. It would probably lead to a lot more vegetarians... but that's not a bad thing.

When I was a kid my parents and grandparents used to buy half a pig once or twice a year and hire a retired butcher to butcher it in my grandparents' basement. I used to like watching him work, and help my parents package the meat. I have fond memories of that, and I think it gave me a good perspective on where meat comes from.

I respect vegetarians' choice, and they do have some good points. In the Star Trek future where we either don't eat meat or it's all replicated my meat eating habit may be viewed as barbaric, but I can live with that. As long as the animals I eat have lived decent lives, their death doesn't disturb me.

I'll stop now before I start singing Circle of Life.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I eat meat, but I don't kill animals. Other people are paid to do that. I also visit museums, but I don't build/furbish them. Other people are paid to do that. Some people listen to music, but they don't play an instrument or sing. Other people are (meagerly) paid to do that.

And on and on and on...

[Dick Strawkins]

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

What does anonymity have to do with whether a claim about a household robbery is true?
It's not as if we can just type his real name name into a 'victims of household robbery' database and confirm the story.

Whether he uses his real name or his blogging pseudonym doesn't make a difference to whether he sounds believable.
What might make a difference is his previous dishonest behavior regarding the false rape accusation and how he turned his own hypothetical story into some kind of Pit-based attempt to ruin his career.
And also his "I got an email" posts which turn out to be him copy-pasting a comment from the pit and then claiming it was sent in an email to him.

And besides, Avicenna, you are not really anonymous.
It's just that those of us who know your real name have more scruples than those, like oolon, you associate with on FTB.

[Joseph Porter, KCB]

Never had to, but I don't have any in-principle problem with killing for meat. I just wouldn't kill as a hobby.

I don't think (most) hunters are into causing pain. But If the messy bit is not fun/rewarding, why not do it with a camera? Obviously the killing is an integral part of why people find hunting satisfying. And from an urban values environment, I find that a bit ..... creepy.

You don't have any problem with killing, yet you find those who do it creepy? That's doesn't really compute, if you actually didn't have a problem, you wouldn't find killing animals for meat creepy.

I'm sorry for being a whiny bitch about this issue, but it just happens to be a pet peeve of mine, since I grew up on a small farm where I helped kill and butcher our livestock from a young age. Killing animals is perfectly normal, it's how we get meat, ALL meat, including the stuff that you bought at your supermarket. If you find killing animals creepy, then you really shouldn't eat meat.

I really think it should be mandatory for kids to at least once have to visit a farm and a slaughterhouse so they could see step by step where meat actually comes from. There's just way to many people that intellectually might know that the meat they are eating is, as the vegetarians often put it, "a dead animal", but completely lack the emotional knowledge/connection. It would probably lead to a lot more vegetarians... but that's not a bad thing.

As a Norman, I only know about beef, mutton, and pork.

I leave cows, sheep, and pigs to my Saxon serfs.

[Tribble]

Fourth wave feminism?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/d ... ?CMP=fb_gu

No. She's selling a book.

All the Rebel Women: The rise of the fourth wave of feminism by Kira Cochrane is out now as a Guardian Shorts Originals ebook (£1.99). Visit guardianshorts.com to find out more.

If you're going to beat a dead horse for $$$, it helps to tart it up a bit. Make it seem new and original.

[Brive1987]

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

What does anonymity have to do with whether a claim about a household robbery is true?
It's not as if we can just type his real name name into a 'victims of household robbery' database and confirm the story.

Whether he uses his real name or his blogging pseudonym doesn't make a difference to whether he sounds believable.
What might make a difference is his previous dishonest behavior regarding the false rape accusation and how he turned his own hypothetical story into some kind of Pit-based attempt to ruin his career.
And also his "I got an email" posts which turn out to be him copy-pasting a comment from the pit and then claiming it was sent in an email to him.

And besides, Avicenna, you are not really anonymous.
It's just that those of us who know your real name have more scruples than those, like oolon, you associate with on FTB.

I wondered whether it was an allusion to Philippines-gate. That or a general whine that people say meanz things about him and poke fun at his earnest auto-biographical story motes. So what larks this; a home invasion and dog assault.

The important thing though is that he has blogged his way to a new camera. :dance:

[Mykeru]

"Users: Michael".

You just totes doxxed yurself, lol!!!!!!

What software do you use?

Magix Movie Edit Pro 2013. It's cheap and accessible to dummies.

[Brive1987]

Never had to, but I don't have any in-principle problem with killing for meat. I just wouldn't kill as a hobby.

I don't think (most) hunters are into causing pain. But If the messy bit is not fun/rewarding, why not do it with a camera? Obviously the killing is an integral part of why people find hunting satisfying. And from an urban values environment, I find that a bit ..... creepy.

You don't have any problem with killing, yet you find those who do it creepy? That's doesn't really compute, if you actually didn't have a problem, you wouldn't find killing animals for meat creepy.

I'm sorry for being a whiny bitch about this issue, but it just happens to be a pet peeve of mine, since I grew up on a small farm where I helped kill and butcher our livestock from a young age. Killing animals is perfectly normal, it's how we get meat, ALL meat, including the stuff that you bought at your supermarket. If you find killing animals creepy, then you really shouldn't eat meat.

I really think it should be mandatory for kids to at least once have to visit a farm and a slaughterhouse so they could see step by step where meat actually comes from. There's just way to many people that intellectually might know that the meat they are eating is, as the vegetarians often put it, "a dead animal", but completely lack the emotional knowledge/connection. It would probably lead to a lot more vegetarians... but that's not a bad thing.

As a Norman, I only know about beef, mutton, and pork.

I leave cows, sheep, and pigs to my Saxon serfs.

Jeez between "Mike" Mykeru and now you "Norman", it appears to be the doxxing season.




:rimshot:

[Jonathan]

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

What does anonymity have to do with whether a claim about a household robbery is true?
It's not as if we can just type his real name name into a 'victims of household robbery' database and confirm the story.

Whether he uses his real name or his blogging pseudonym doesn't make a difference to whether he sounds believable.
What might make a difference is his previous dishonest behavior regarding the false rape accusation and how he turned his own hypothetical story into some kind of Pit-based attempt to ruin his career.
And also his "I got an email" posts which turn out to be him copy-pasting a comment from the pit and then claiming it was sent in an email to him.

And besides, Avicenna, you are not really anonymous.
It's just that those of us who know your real name have more scruples than those, like oolon, you associate with on FTB.

I read it as his supposedly being concerned about either/both: the incident not being believed, or getting mocked for it.

Which is rather stupid, really, and a strange thing to open the post with.

If it happened, which I currently have no reason to believe that it didn't, then it's a shame. Bit bemused that he would self-treat his dog: how common is that? If it were me I would take him to a vet just to be on the safe side.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Jeez between "Mike" Mykeru and now you "Norman", it appears to be the doxxing season.




:rimshot:

Yeah, I phil strongly about that type of behaviour!

[Mykeru]

Bhurzum, please don't post any more videos or photos of Shirley Manson. They derail the thread (for me at least) for about fifteen minutes while I literally shake from distraction and then get sleepy.

And certainly don't post a high-def version of the video for Bleed Like Me.

I'm too sleepy (and dehydrated/drained) to look for the video in question.

:oops:

http://lgbticons.files.wordpress.com/20 ... 0-1525.jpg

Dammit!

Back in 15...

And that's how she gets you...

[youtube]G5bQg8GT_XA[/youtube]

[Bhurzum]

And that's how she gets you...

[youtube]G5bQg8GT_XA[/youtube]

OMG!

She's a toilet.

Literally!

[Mykeru]

Jeez between "Mike" Mykeru and now you "Norman", it appears to be the doxxing season.




:rimshot:

Yeah, I phil strongly about that type of behaviour!

mccraken.jpg

(114.76 KiB) Downloaded 348 times

[Dick Strawkins]

And that's how she gets you...

[youtube]G5bQg8GT_XA[/youtube]

OMG!

She's a toilet.

Literally!

Finally!
It all makes sense!

[Tribble]

http://measureofdoubt.com/2011/06/22/wh ... -omnivore/

I just noticed the comments in this article are batshit insane.

The fact that factory farms, which I avoid whenever possible, kill egg-laying hens at certain ages is not the same as purposely buying a chunk of dead cow. Eggs are only created by live chickens, in the same way that you can only get ground beef or steak from a dead cow.

Also, here’s one thing that is left completely out of the argument from most of these people: you do not NEED to KILL a chicken to get an egg and you don’t NEED to KILL a dairy cow to get milk. You do NEED to KILL a cow to get a steak.

I eat maybe 2-3 eggs per week at the most. So, taking into account the male chicken death, I kill one egg-laying hen every 18+ years. If you only count females, it’s about 37/38 years. My egg consumption in a lifetime is probably not more than 6-7 hens (counting male deaths from Julia’s table) if you take into account eggs that are in other products, not just eaten outright. That’s much more acceptable to me than one cow required to die for every slab of beef someone eats.

They don't have clue. Battery hens are not kept around forever. They have a very short productive life then they're turned into Chicken McNuggets and pet food somewhere between 2 and 3 years old, after being placed in service at 20 weeks, because their egg production takes a massive drop by 3. So even though a chicken can live for more than 10 years, it's off to the chicken death camps in what should be the prime of their life.

Further, hens don't need roosters to lay eggs. They do it automatically when the environmental conditions (light/dark) are correct. No roosters were killed at that point. Rather, the cockerels were culled during the initial sexing and were sent to be factory farms to turn into fryers (12 weeks) or killed on the spot.

In it's two-year commercial life an hen will produce between 400 and 500 eggs. Which gets me to Mr. Ignorant-and-Bad-Math:

At 2.5 eggs a week, he requires a one hen in production that will have a production life of no more than 2 years, 7 months (and shorter if the cage doesn't keep to quota). That's 132 weeks. During that 132 weeks he will eat 330 of the the 400-to-500 eggs it will produce. So, every 132 weeks an new hen will have to be placed in service while the other one is killed.

Yet he thinks its one every 18 years because some idiot with an axe to grind fed him a load of shit and he's too stupid and lazy to check the facts.

But hey, if you're going to find a way to look down your nose at others... Ignorance works wonders...

Kinda preachy, but check out this response:

Dawn says:
February 23, 2012 at 1:53 pm

I wonder if you would feel the same if YOU were one of those 7 or 8 chickens……

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Let's see... Oh, here's another one. Guy opens with an innocuous comment about liking meat:

I could never stop eating meat, except for financial reasons, when carnivores are allowed to eat meat and sometimes even people.

And the response...

Do you base your moral code on the actions of dumb beasts? Carnivores rape things, too, and I’ve seen plenty of cats torture and kill things for the fun of it. That’s hardly a valid justification for humans engaging in these behaviors.

You eat meat? RAPIST.

No offense, but that’s like saying “Soldiers in wars are allowed to kill people, so I should be allowed to kill people too”. Carnivorous animals don’t have grocery stores or the ability to farm crops like humans do. They also need to eat meat — their bodies are designed for it. We humans also able to make decisions based on what we believe to be morally correct. I have an entire post dedicated to this issue:

http://veganrabbit.com/2011/12/17/the-l ... al-rights/

All the best.

You eat meat? MURDERER. Carnivores eat meat because they're built for it. Humans are descended from omnivorous monkeys that adapted to eat many things, including meat. But oh, humans eating meat is bad and immoral. >___>

The rest of the comments section is mostly a giant vegan circlejerk. They're quick to point out how the deaths of small animals as a result of mass grain harvesting is totes different from slaughterhouses because, um, it's an "accident." Never mind that those soy companies know very well that what they do kills little animals, and they don't give any more of a fuck about it than a slaughterhouse does about drilling a cow in the brain. Costs of doing agribusiness. But because it's their vegan in-group companies doing it, the vegans defend it as a completely different issue which is in no way comparable to the meat industry. :roll:

Veganism in the comments section is also presented as a "lost/saved" situation. Oh, I was a horrible meat eater/vegetarian, but then one day I saw the holy light of veganism!

I, honestly, really can't stand Vegans as a group. Some individuals are ok and don't go around being preachy. But mostly they're a bunch of ignorant asses who know nothing about farming or nutrition or evolution or anything else that surrounds the issue.

Even worse, they have some Jeffersonian Gentleman Farmer fantasy of what farming was like in the old days. Well it sucked. It was brutal, dangerous and had a mortality for both humans and livestock. So whatever the 'sins' of factory farming are today, it's still more humane, and far safer, than it was in my great grandfather's day.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I use a computer, but I wouldn't be able to build one if my life depended on it. Or write even the simpliest of programs to run it.

Does that make me a hypocrite as well?

[Mykeru]

I, honestly, really can't stand Vegans as a group. Some individuals are ok and don't go around being preachy. But mostly they're a bunch of ignorant asses who know nothing about farming or nutrition or evolution or anything else that surrounds the issue.

Even worse, they have some Jeffersonian Gentleman Farmer fantasy of what farming was like in the old days. Well it sucked. It was brutal, dangerous and had a mortality for both humans and livestock. So whatever the 'sins' of factory farming are today, it's still more humane, and far safer, than it was in my great grandfather's day.

Vegans require massive post-agrarian, post-industrial Western Civilization structures to make it all work. They require vast and destructive farming techniques, hugely expensive and energy-intensive distribution networks, not to mention the R&D necessary to come up with synthetic and petroleum-based materials along with the cheap sweatshop labor to make clothing. Basically, they pick one piece of moral high-ground and then transfer the weight of carrying it everywhere and to everyone else.

No such thing as "Third World Vegan" or a self-sufficient Vegan with 10 acres and a donkey. It's quite literally the conceit of privilege.

[Brive1987]

Jeez between "Mike" Mykeru and now you "Norman", it appears to be the doxxing season.




:rimshot:

Yeah, I phil strongly about that type of behaviour!

Amen, I live and brive that phil-osophy

[Mykeru]

I use a computer, but I wouldn't be able to build one if my life depended on it. Or write even the simpliest of programs to run it.

Does that make me a hypocrite as well?

Not as long as you recognize it.

Unlike the "self-sufficient" prick who goes on about how they are "off the grid", their own person, don't need anyone, blah-blah-blah. I once listened to someone go on about this and completely stymied them by asking "Did you make the chair you're sitting on'?

[Tribble]

And the response...

Do you base your moral code on the actions of dumb beasts? Carnivores rape things, too, and I’ve seen plenty of cats torture and kill things for the fun of it. That’s hardly a valid justification for humans engaging in these behaviors.

You eat meat? RAPIST.

No offense, but that’s like saying “Soldiers in wars are allowed to kill people, so I should be allowed to kill people too”. Carnivorous animals don’t have grocery stores or the ability to farm crops like humans do. They also need to eat meat — their bodies are designed for it. We humans also able to make decisions based on what we believe to be morally correct.

I think those were good responses to his specific (and weak) argument and separate from their own arguments for being vegan/vegetarian. Your post was overall quite knee-jerk.[/quote]

Our bodies are designed for it too. In fact, our bodies require it. We can't produce our own B12.

Which makes me ask you, Mr. First World Problem, where do you get your B12? Unless you take supplements and/or vitamins made in some industrial process (brewers yeast, vitamins, fortified and enriched food), you can only get it in sufficient quantities from meat and animal products such as milk and eggs. Even worse, milk and eggs are fairly low so that can supplement your needs, but you're not going to be able to meet them through non-flesh-eating animal product harvesting.

So when the Vegan is giving us their horseshit 'natural, ethical' argument, it's a first-world argument. An argument born out pure ignorance and a disconnection from the reality of nutrition and food production.

And if it's a 'moral choice,' it's only a moral choice for those who live in technological societies and have access to manufactured B12. And if only people can make that 'moral choice' then I don't see it being a moral choice because it can only be applied to those who live in first-world/some second-world societies. For the rest of the world, they must take in animal protein or suffer from progressive neurological collapse:

Symptoms of Vitamin B12 Deficiency

A deficiency of vitamin B12 can lead to vitamin B12 deficiency anemia. A mild deficiency may cause only mild, if any, symptoms. But as the anemia worsens it may causes symptoms such as:

weakness, tiredness or light-headedness
rapid heartbeat and breathing
pale skin
sore tongue
easy bruising or bleeding, including bleeding gums
stomach upset and weight loss
diarrhea or constipation

If the deficiency is not corrected, it can damage the nerve cells. If this happens, vitamin B12 deficiency effects may include:

tingling or numbness in fingers and toes
difficulty walking
mood changes or depression
memory loss, disorientation, and dementia

B12 deficiency in infants, if not detected and treated, can lead to severe and permanent damage to the nervous system. New mothers who follow a vegetarian diet should have their babies' B12 levels checked by a doctor.

The fact is, the second argument was one of the stupider possible answers. Not a good answer. Just a fucking ignorant and first-world finger-pointing-and-shaming answer to the problem of getting adequate B12 into the diet. And a course of action that a good half the humans on the planet, if not more, can't make.

[Tribble]

.

Apparently Avicenna got robbed and assaulted in his house (minor stitches). I felt sorry for him until I read his pain was further compounded by the 'pit (Or so it seems).

My place got robbed last week and I actually have been debating on whether to tell people or not about it.
Partly because there exists a vocal amount of atheists who don’t really care all that much for FTB and who would utilise any opportunity to bash anyone who happens to be part of it irrespective of the issue. It’s made it a problem.

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

But I got robbed last week.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... te-robbed/

The guy is just a clown with a martyr complex. He should take up religion, he'd fit right in.

[Ape+lust]

.

Apparently Avicenna got robbed and assaulted in his house (minor stitches). I felt sorry for him until I read his pain was further compounded by the 'pit (Or so it seems).

My place got robbed last week and I actually have been debating on whether to tell people or not about it.
Partly because there exists a vocal amount of atheists who don’t really care all that much for FTB and who would utilise any opportunity to bash anyone who happens to be part of it irrespective of the issue. It’s made it a problem.

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

But I got robbed last week.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... te-robbed/

The guy is just a clown with a martyr complex. He should take up religion, he'd fit right in.

Bingo. He's not a core FtBer, at least not to my concerns. He's not an entryist who blew up atheist/skeptics groups. But for some stupid reason, he sorely wants in on the drama. The dude's a strange bird.

[Richard Dworkins]

I have to revisit Altemeyer's The Authoritariansto refresh my memory when it gets on Kindle, but I'm at a loss to distinguish between right authoritarians and this left SJW variant. It's the same nature capriciously tweaked by nurture to go in a certain direction. At this point I see the dumb white person railing against racial impurity, the dumb white person railing against racism derived at by playing hair-splitting gotcha games and Jack D. Ripper railing against commies trying to sap our precious bodily fluids as exactly the same template of a demented top sent spinning off into divergent directions.

I mean, if you had to describe the type of person this is, babbling eco poetry bout the original sin of a six year old, what would you say makes them tick?

Just as a start, I think they are motivated by tenuous intellectual credentials, a need for power over people via manipulation and the mean-spiritedness of being, when you get down to it, just fucking empty.

It is likely you were not asking me but to me it seems a form of sanctimony that comes from too much praise too little ability and a rude awakening to reality. It's not that they're genocidal racists or homocide bombers or miserable bitches or obese losers eating themselves to an early grave. No, they are perfect, it is everyone and everything else's fault that they lost the war, Harry Potter Fanfic wasn't well received, received hate mail after making outrageous remarks.

The symptom of people who are altogether normal and refuse to admit to that torturing their mind and body to suit an ideology. A colleague of mine once told me that "I'm special" was always a timebomb waiting to go off.

[Hunt]

I use a computer, but I wouldn't be able to build one if my life depended on it. Or write even the simpliest of programs to run it.

Does that make me a hypocrite as well?

Not as long as you recognize it.

Unlike the "self-sufficient" prick who goes on about how they are "off the grid", their own person, don't need anyone, blah-blah-blah. I once listened to someone go on about this and completely stymied them by asking "Did you make the chair you're sitting on'?

Like with the "preppers." I kind of want to say, look if there's economic and societal catastrophe, you're going to die. You can eat all the canned food you want, but eventually, one, two, maybe three years down the line, you're going to die, and it's probably not going to be a pretty picture. So you'd better damn well focus your energies on making it not happen.

It's kind of like when, back in the day, people thought they could protect themselves from a thermonuclear bomb drop in improvised shelters.... You are not going to survive a thermonuclear strike. If you at a stage where you want to consider "shelter" as a viable option, then there is nothing that will ever protect you from a 10 megaton bomb. You are going to die. There is nothing that will protect you. So you'd better damn well help to make it not happen.

[Mykeru]

It is likely you were not asking me but to me it seems a form of sanctimony that comes from too much praise too little ability and a rude awakening to reality. It's not that they're genocidal racists or homocide bombers or miserable bitches or obese losers eating themselves to an early grave. No, they are perfect, it is everyone and everything else's fault that they lost the war, Harry Potter Fanfic wasn't well received, received hate mail after making outrageous remarks.

Which is really "young at heart" on the developmental stage. I mean, you have to teach your basic narcissistic 5 year-old that people will react to the way they act.

Like with the "preppers." I kind of want to say, look if there's economic and societal catastrophe, you're going to die. You can eat all the canned food you want, but eventually, one, two, maybe three years down the line, you're going to die, and it's probably not going to be a pretty picture. So you'd better damn well focus your energies on making it not happen.

It's kind of like when, back in the day, people thought they could protect themselves from a thermonuclear bomb drop in improvised shelters.... You are not going to survive a thermonuclear strike. If you at a stage where you want to consider "shelter" as a viable option, then there is nothing that will ever protect you from a 10 megaton bomb. You are going to die. There is nothing that will protect you. So you'd better damn well help to make it not happen.

You miss the point. The point of a bomb shelter was to live cramped and miserable in your own shit while your dumb-assed non-prepared neighbors fry. And if they try to open the door, that's what the shotgun is for.

If you talk to actual preppers they will cycle back to the theme of how they will live while all those dumb-assed non-preppers will die in the race war/tsunami/economic collapse.

It's all about the imagined last laugh.

[acathode]

I use a computer, but I wouldn't be able to build one if my life depended on it. Or write even the simpliest of programs to run it.

Does that make me a hypocrite as well?

Not unless you at the same time are going around complaining and sneering about how evil and sadistic developers and computer engineers are, because you think programming and building computers (for some very strange reasons :think:) are immoral, creepy and/or wrong.

"Not doing something" is an entirely different thing from "wouldn't do something". I'm "not doing" a lot of things, I don't program all the software I use, I don't grow/kill all food I eat, I don't build the car I drive... but, if I had the knowledge, time and materials, and for some reason had to do things myself, I would be prepared to build my own car, I would make my own computer, and it's software, and I would gladly raise, slaughter and butcher all the meat I eat if I had to.

The point is, if you wouldn't do something, then you probably shouldn't stuff your gullets full of the fruits that is the end result of that something. At the very least, if you're going to keep enjoying those fruits, you should feel respect, not contempt, for those who do what you wouldn't do.

[John D]

Bhurzum, please don't post any more videos or photos of Shirley Manson. They derail the thread (for me at least) for about fifteen minutes while I literally shake from distraction and then get sleepy.

And certainly don't post a high-def version of the video for Bleed Like Me.

I'm too sleepy (and dehydrated/drained) to look for the video in question.

:oops:

http://lgbticons.files.wordpress.com/20 ... 0-1525.jpg

Dammit!

Back in 15...

And that's how she gets you...

Shit. When I saw this photo I thought "Wow... how did these cunts get this picture of my daughter". No shit. This girl looks just like my 17 year old kid. Should I be worried? She does have a 22 year old boyfriend!?!?

[Dave]

.

Apparently Avicenna got robbed and assaulted in his house (minor stitches). I felt sorry for him until I read his pain was further compounded by the 'pit (Or so it seems).

My place got robbed last week and I actually have been debating on whether to tell people or not about it.
Partly because there exists a vocal amount of atheists who don’t really care all that much for FTB and who would utilise any opportunity to bash anyone who happens to be part of it irrespective of the issue. It’s made it a problem.

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

But I got robbed last week.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... te-robbed/

I should feel bad for Avicenna, getting robbed sucks. He (she? xir? sjjetf? I can't keep track with out a scorecard) may be a raging asshole but it still sucks and ouerw deserves some sympathy for that.

The problem is that the lot of them are such raging mendacious fuckwits that I cant bring myself to believe anything any of them say. Particularly anything that might bring them victim points. Its not the anonymity that makes the claim "fake," its the history of fuckwittery.

[Apples]

SallyStrange has been busy promoting #dearcisfeminism on Twitter. She just retweeted this:

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

SallyStrange has been busy promoting #dearcisfeminism on Twitter. She just retweeted this:

Wait, what?!?

:doh:

[Ericb]

SallyStrange has been busy promoting #dearcisfeminism on Twitter. She just retweeted this:

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/201 ... =500&h=363

[BillHamp]

I, honestly, really can't stand Vegans as a group. Some individuals are ok and don't go around being preachy. But mostly they're a bunch of ignorant asses who know nothing about farming or nutrition or evolution or anything else that surrounds the issue.

Even worse, they have some Jeffersonian Gentleman Farmer fantasy of what farming was like in the old days. Well it sucked. It was brutal, dangerous and had a mortality for both humans and livestock. So whatever the 'sins' of factory farming are today, it's still more humane, and far safer, than it was in my great grandfather's day.

Vegans require massive post-agrarian, post-industrial Western Civilization structures to make it all work. They require vast and destructive farming techniques, hugely expensive and energy-intensive distribution networks, not to mention the R&D necessary to come up with synthetic and petroleum-based materials along with the cheap sweatshop labor to make clothing. Basically, they pick one piece of moral high-ground and then transfer the weight of carrying it everywhere and to everyone else.

No such thing as "Third World Vegan" or a self-sufficient Vegan with 10 acres and a donkey. It's quite literally the conceit of privilege.

I'm afraid none of this is true. While it is true that many vegans fall into the category you describe, it is not true that to be a vegan you must fall into that category. It is entirely possible, though by no means easy, to avoid all animal products and still not rely on post-industrial, petroleum-based synthetics, etc. I think your reaction is bit over the top.

[Barael]

Suppose for a second this isn't something that some Half Fish somewhere didn't just pull out of their trans* ass. This immediately raises the urgent question:

So...

what, exactly? :think:

[Kareem]

SallyStrange has been busy promoting #dearcisfeminism on Twitter. She just retweeted this:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg29 ... morgan.gif

[Ericb]

Suppose for a second this isn't something that some Half Fish somewhere didn't just pull out of their trans* ass. This immediately raises the urgent question:

So...

what, exactly? :think:

We need to go back the to gender binaryless utopia that was the Middle Ages.

[Gefan]

.

Apparently Avicenna got robbed and assaulted in his house (minor stitches). I felt sorry for him until I read his pain was further compounded by the 'pit (Or so it seems).

My place got robbed last week and I actually have been debating on whether to tell people or not about it.
Partly because there exists a vocal amount of atheists who don’t really care all that much for FTB and who would utilise any opportunity to bash anyone who happens to be part of it irrespective of the issue. It’s made it a problem.

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

But I got robbed last week.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... te-robbed/

I should feel bad for Avicenna, getting robbed sucks. He (she? xir? sjjetf? I can't keep track with out a scorecard) may be a raging asshole but it still sucks and ouerw deserves some sympathy for that.

The problem is that the lot of them are such raging mendacious fuckwits that I cant bring myself to believe anything any of them say. Particularly anything that might bring them victim points. Its not the anonymity that makes the claim "fake," its the history of fuckwittery.

Why, oh why do we not simply teach robbers not to rob?

[codelette]

Ha! This is good.

Jezebel posted an article calling out a pop singer for "appropriating Latino culture." Nearly every self-identified Latino in the comments is giving the author shit. They mistakenly assume she's White (she's Black), but the lady was dumb enough to mention she once lived near a Mexican neighborhood and occasionally rode in a low-rider, which sounds like something our dear Melody would say. Anyway, she's getting told she's wrong, she's got a stick up her ass, she's manufacturing outrage, she doesn't know the difference between Latino-Chicano-Gangsta, and her white knighting isn't appreciated. On Jezebel.

http://jezebel.com/dear-lana-del-rey-yo ... 1479863180

*Snigger* This is too fucking good.
The conflation of "Latino gangster culture" with Latino culture is contemptible enough but the fact that the author chose to bemoan Lana Del Ray "wearing teardrop tattoos", "sitting on a porch" and "sucking on lollipops" as "cultural appropriation" (as if those things are an integral part of Latin culture) and not "negative racial stereotypes" speaks volumes about her.

That stupid fucker of a writer really asked for it.
Before I started reading the comments, I was asking myself the same questions. Did that stupid bitch not only equated being "Latina" with being a chola? She thinks that being a chola is an intrinsic part of Mexican culture? Did she also called all latinos Mexican? Cause she had a Mexican neighbor with a low rider? lol.
The writer is black. I have a black neighbor with tear drop tattoos. Is he appropriating "Latino" culture? Are tear drop tattoos considered "black"? If so, is the writer acting white for not sporting tear drop tattoos? Is Lana del Rey appropriating black culture?
When will Jenn McWrong suggest that we apply skepticism to face tattoos and low riders? So many questions, so much id politics shit to be angry about. :lol:

[BillHamp]

.

Apparently Avicenna got robbed and assaulted in his house (minor stitches). I felt sorry for him until I read his pain was further compounded by the 'pit (Or so it seems).

My place got robbed last week and I actually have been debating on whether to tell people or not about it.
Partly because there exists a vocal amount of atheists who don’t really care all that much for FTB and who would utilise any opportunity to bash anyone who happens to be part of it irrespective of the issue. It’s made it a problem.

It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”. It’s impossible to not be anonymous because then the insults get personal.

But I got robbed last week.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... te-robbed/

I should feel bad for Avicenna, getting robbed sucks. He (she? xir? sjjetf? I can't keep track with out a scorecard) may be a raging asshole but it still sucks and ouerw deserves some sympathy for that.

The problem is that the lot of them are such raging mendacious fuckwits that I cant bring myself to believe anything any of them say. Particularly anything that might bring them victim points. Its not the anonymity that makes the claim "fake," its the history of fuckwittery.

I find this part "It’s impossible to be anonymous and tell people what I do because the anonymity makes the claim “fake”." to be particularly stupid. How is this related to being robbed? It isn't. I find a number of people want to tell everyone "what they do" as if that someone justifies their position or should influence whether people believe them or not. I don't care if you are unemployed or discovered the Higgs Boson (had someone claim that on a board about a week back) because none of that matters. That's what makes the Internet great. Arguments can stand or fall on their merits, not because of a person's occupation, living arrangement, financial situation, etc. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to talk about "what you do" on boards like FTB or the Pit. Save that shit for LinkedIn.

[welch]

I, honestly, really can't stand Vegans as a group. Some individuals are ok and don't go around being preachy. But mostly they're a bunch of ignorant asses who know nothing about farming or nutrition or evolution or anything else that surrounds the issue.

Even worse, they have some Jeffersonian Gentleman Farmer fantasy of what farming was like in the old days. Well it sucked. It was brutal, dangerous and had a mortality for both humans and livestock. So whatever the 'sins' of factory farming are today, it's still more humane, and far safer, than it was in my great grandfather's day.

Vegans require massive post-agrarian, post-industrial Western Civilization structures to make it all work. They require vast and destructive farming techniques, hugely expensive and energy-intensive distribution networks, not to mention the R&D necessary to come up with synthetic and petroleum-based materials along with the cheap sweatshop labor to make clothing. Basically, they pick one piece of moral high-ground and then transfer the weight of carrying it everywhere and to everyone else.

No such thing as "Third World Vegan" or a self-sufficient Vegan with 10 acres and a donkey. It's quite literally the conceit of privilege.

I'm afraid none of this is true. While it is true that many vegans fall into the category you describe, it is not true that to be a vegan you must fall into that category. It is entirely possible, though by no means easy, to avoid all animal products and still not rely on post-industrial, petroleum-based synthetics, etc. I think your reaction is bit over the top.

It is possible, but HIGHLY unlikely. Very few people are going to grow their own cotton, gin it, weave it, etc. The number of times I've had some vegan tit lecture me about my leather coat whilst head to toe in petroleum byproducts is a number too high to bother counting anymore.

[Barael]

Suppose for a second this isn't something that some Half Fish somewhere didn't just pull out of their trans* ass. This immediately raises the urgent question:

So...

what, exactly? :think:

We need to go back the to gender binaryless utopia that was the Middle Ages.

Or invent a time machine and go back to prevent colonization!

[welch]

Suppose for a second this isn't something that some Half Fish somewhere didn't just pull out of their trans* ass. This immediately raises the urgent question:

So...

what, exactly? :think:

We need to go back the to gender binaryless utopia that was the Middle Ages.

no, no, the "colonialism" is the hint. They're talking about the non-european parts of the world, where everyone lived in peace and harmony before the honkies fucked it all up.


You know, like the Mayans and the Aztecs did.

[Suet Cardigan]

Or invent a time machine and go back to prevent colonization!

Bah! I'm going to invent a time machine and go back 1.2 billion years to prevent the evolution of sexual reproduction. Only then will we be free from patriarchal binary gender cis-scum oppression. Or something.

[welch]

Ha! This is good.

Jezebel posted an article calling out a pop singer for "appropriating Latino culture." Nearly every self-identified Latino in the comments is giving the author shit. They mistakenly assume she's White (she's Black), but the lady was dumb enough to mention she once lived near a Mexican neighborhood and occasionally rode in a low-rider, which sounds like something our dear Melody would say. Anyway, she's getting told she's wrong, she's got a stick up her ass, she's manufacturing outrage, she doesn't know the difference between Latino-Chicano-Gangsta, and her white knighting isn't appreciated. On Jezebel.

http://jezebel.com/dear-lana-del-rey-yo ... 1479863180

*Snigger* This is too fucking good.
The conflation of "Latino gangster culture" with Latino culture is contemptible enough but the fact that the author chose to bemoan Lana Del Ray "wearing teardrop tattoos", "sitting on a porch" and "sucking on lollipops" as "cultural appropriation" (as if those things are an integral part of Latin culture) and not "negative racial stereotypes" speaks volumes about her.

That stupid fucker of a writer really asked for it.
Before I started reading the comments, I was asking myself the same questions. Did that stupid bitch not only equated being "Latina" with being a chola? She thinks that being a chola is an intrinsic part of Mexican culture? Did she also called all latinos Mexican? Cause she had a Mexican neighbor with a low rider? lol.
The writer is black. I have a black neighbor with tear drop tattoos. Is he appropriating "Latino" culture? Are tear drop tattoos considered "black"? If so, is the writer acting white for not sporting tear drop tattoos? Is Lana del Rey appropriating black culture?
When will Jenn McWrong suggest that we apply skepticism to face tattoos and low riders? So many questions, so much id politics shit to be angry about. :lol:

you know, life would be so much simpler if honkies stopped talking about "hispanics" the way we talk about "asians" or "africans". They take a term that is, at best a highly non-specific way to group multiple cultures across the globe, and then start acting as though they're all the same.

9 times out of ten, they mean "Mexican" or "Mexican-American". If you grow up around people who are nominally hispanic, but not mexican, it can get very confusing. Even the food. The first time some well-meaning but ignorant person took me to lunch at some Mexican chain in North Dakota, and said "this must be like what you'd eat at home", I almost choked due to laughing. It took me a while to explain that just like "Cuba" and "Mexico" are different places, "Cuban food" and "Mexican food" are different things.

i couldn't get too mad, they really did mean well, and given how much of a shock NFD was compared to Miami, I really did appreciate the gesture. But ye gods.

There were other things. People who expected me to know what the fuck "esse" meant. That was pretty rare to hear in Miami, at least when I was growing up. Shit like that. After a while, I just got used to it, because it starts to turn into a "boiling the ocean" issue. (that one confused the fuck out of me for a while, because really, never heard it, and if you don't know what it means, the misunderstandings are HILARIOUS)

[Kareem]

Suppose for a second this isn't something that some Half Fish somewhere didn't just pull out of their trans* ass. This immediately raises the urgent question:

So...

what, exactly? :think:

We need to go back the to gender binaryless utopia that was the Middle Ages.

no, no, the "colonialism" is the hint. They're talking about the non-european parts of the world, where everyone lived in peace and harmony before the honkies fucked it all up.


You know, like the Mayans and the Aztecs did.

Maybe there's a different sociological definition of the word colonialism. Or Binary. Or Gender. Or until.

[welch]

Ha! This is good.

Jezebel posted an article calling out a pop singer for "appropriating Latino culture." Nearly every self-identified Latino in the comments is giving the author shit. They mistakenly assume she's White (she's Black), but the lady was dumb enough to mention she once lived near a Mexican neighborhood and occasionally rode in a low-rider, which sounds like something our dear Melody would say. Anyway, she's getting told she's wrong, she's got a stick up her ass, she's manufacturing outrage, she doesn't know the difference between Latino-Chicano-Gangsta, and her white knighting isn't appreciated. On Jezebel.

http://jezebel.com/dear-lana-del-rey-yo ... 1479863180

*Snigger* This is too fucking good.
The conflation of "Latino gangster culture" with Latino culture is contemptible enough but the fact that the author chose to bemoan Lana Del Ray "wearing teardrop tattoos", "sitting on a porch" and "sucking on lollipops" as "cultural appropriation" (as if those things are an integral part of Latin culture) and not "negative racial stereotypes" speaks volumes about her.

That stupid fucker of a writer really asked for it.
Before I started reading the comments, I was asking myself the same questions. Did that stupid bitch not only equated being "Latina" with being a chola? She thinks that being a chola is an intrinsic part of Mexican culture? Did she also called all latinos Mexican? Cause she had a Mexican neighbor with a low rider? lol.
The writer is black. I have a black neighbor with tear drop tattoos. Is he appropriating "Latino" culture? Are tear drop tattoos considered "black"? If so, is the writer acting white for not sporting tear drop tattoos? Is Lana del Rey appropriating black culture?
When will Jenn McWrong suggest that we apply skepticism to face tattoos and low riders? So many questions, so much id politics shit to be angry about. :lol:

Oh, so here's the bio on our official gatekeeper of hispanic culture (I do be:

"Born in England, Ms. Crosley was raised by her military family in Northern California. She attended University of California, Davis and studied abroad at University of Warwick in the U.K, where she began her craft as an intern at MTV News UK, PRIDE and NME in London.

Upon returning to the U.S. Ms. Crosley graduated and moved to New York to pursue a career in journalism."

<eyeroll>

[bovarchist]

I could never stop eating meat, except for financial reasons, when carnivores are allowed to eat meat and sometimes even people.

And the response...

Do you base your moral code on the actions of dumb beasts? Carnivores rape things, too, and I’ve seen plenty of cats torture and kill things for the fun of it. That’s hardly a valid justification for humans engaging in these behaviors.

No offense, but that’s like saying “Soldiers in wars are allowed to kill people, so I should be allowed to kill people too”. Carnivorous animals don’t have grocery stores or the ability to farm crops like humans do. They also need to eat meat — their bodies are designed for it. We humans also able to make decisions based on what we believe to be morally correct.

Wait, I'm confused...You're saying that the standards for animals don't apply to people? Doesn't that mean that the standards for people don't apply to animals? Cuts both ways, doesn't it? If animals are just blind automatons without any sort of moral judgment, then why do they merit the same moral status as humans?

[codelette]

you know, life would be so much simpler if honkies stopped talking about "hispanics" the way we talk about "asians" or "africans". They take a term that is, at best a highly non-specific way to group multiple cultures across the globe, and then start acting as though they're all the same.

9 times out of ten, they mean "Mexican" or "Mexican-American". If you grow up around people who are nominally hispanic, but not mexican, it can get very confusing. Even the food. The first time some well-meaning but ignorant person took me to lunch at some Mexican chain in North Dakota, and said "this must be like what you'd eat at home", I almost choked due to laughing. It took me a while to explain that just like "Cuba" and "Mexico" are different places, "Cuban food" and "Mexican food" are different things.

i couldn't get too mad, they really did mean well, and given how much of a shock NFD was compared to Miami, I really did appreciate the gesture. But ye gods.

There were other things. People who expected me to know what the fuck "esse" meant. That was pretty rare to hear in Miami, at least when I was growing up. Shit like that. After a while, I just got used to it, because it starts to turn into a "boiling the ocean" issue. (that one confused the fuck out of me for a while, because really, never heard it, and if you don't know what it means, the misunderstandings are HILARIOUS)

Most of the time, people that conflate "mexican" with "Hispanic" do not mean harm. They are ignorant, are trying to be nice and I just correct the information in a nonchalant way. Some of my coworkers asked me if I ate a lot of tacos and I told them that Rican food was more about rice, beans, plantains, yuca and pork. They truly didn't know and I have brought some 'Rican food to work potlucks. They really enjoyed it.
I get pissed off when fuckers like the Jezebel writer decide to write against something they consider racist and end up being more racist than a malicious racist motherfucker. I thought SJWs were educated to "shut up and listen" or something.

[John D]

Well, this is definitely not my kid...despite the resemblance. My daughter wouldn't be caught dead in this t-shirt.

[codelette]

Oh, so here's the bio on our official gatekeeper of hispanic culture (I do be:

"Born in England, Ms. Crosley was raised by her military family in Northern California. She attended University of California, Davis and studied abroad at University of Warwick in the U.K, where she began her craft as an intern at MTV News UK, PRIDE and NME in London.

Upon returning to the U.S. Ms. Crosley graduated and moved to New York to pursue a career in journalism."

<eyeroll>

I'm pretty sure (based on that bio), that some people have called her "not black enough"...

[bovarchist]

Well, this is definitely not my kid...despite the resemblance. My daughter wouldn't be caught dead in this t-shirt.

So that would make her a...petaphile?

[Mykeru]

I, honestly, really can't stand Vegans as a group. Some individuals are ok and don't go around being preachy. But mostly they're a bunch of ignorant asses who know nothing about farming or nutrition or evolution or anything else that surrounds the issue.

Even worse, they have some Jeffersonian Gentleman Farmer fantasy of what farming was like in the old days. Well it sucked. It was brutal, dangerous and had a mortality for both humans and livestock. So whatever the 'sins' of factory farming are today, it's still more humane, and far safer, than it was in my great grandfather's day.

Vegans require massive post-agrarian, post-industrial Western Civilization structures to make it all work. They require vast and destructive farming techniques, hugely expensive and energy-intensive distribution networks, not to mention the R&D necessary to come up with synthetic and petroleum-based materials along with the cheap sweatshop labor to make clothing. Basically, they pick one piece of moral high-ground and then transfer the weight of carrying it everywhere and to everyone else.

No such thing as "Third World Vegan" or a self-sufficient Vegan with 10 acres and a donkey. It's quite literally the conceit of privilege.

I'm afraid none of this is true. While it is true that many vegans fall into the category you describe, it is not true that to be a vegan you must fall into that category. It is entirely possible, though by no means easy, to avoid all animal products and still not rely on post-industrial, petroleum-based synthetics, etc. I think your reaction is bit over the top.

Oh, okay, I'm wrong, I guess you showed m--

Wait, you didn't show me anything. Like, oh, I dunno, shoes...clothes...nothing.

Just to have fun, let me give you some specs:

Let's say you are going to be out and about in the late fall in a temperate region at moderate altitude. Show me your kit, including shoes, undergarments, gloves and jacket that would be suitable in a cold, wet climate. They would have to be water-repellent (so no mink oil for you!) and have an R factor not necessarily as good as animal/synthetics, but enough to keep you from freezing. Additional difficultly factor: No cotton, which is referred to as "death cloth" due to it losing all heat retention when wet and being very difficult to dry and, also, racism.

As noble as your convictions may be, you don't get to die for them in this exercise. No synthetics, and none of that awful Inuit stuff made from the bodies of our animal brethren. Those bastards.

You don't get to bullshit, or talk in generalities. Please link to the products in question, which will then be evaluated on how much time search and rescue will have to find your lifeless corpse.

[Tribble]

I'm afraid none of this is true. While it is true that many vegans fall into the category you describe, it is not true that to be a vegan you must fall into that category. It is entirely possible, though by no means easy, to avoid all animal products and still not rely on post-industrial, petroleum-based synthetics, etc. I think your reaction is bit over the top.

Really, and where do you get your B-12?

Vitamin B12, vitamin B12 or vitamin B-12, also called cobalamin, is a water-soluble vitamin with a key role in the normal functioning of the brain and nervous system, and for the formation of blood. It is one of the eight B vitamins. It is normally involved in the metabolism of every cell of the human body, especially affecting DNA synthesis and regulation, but also fatty acid synthesis and energy production. Neither fungi, plants, nor animals are capable of producing vitamin B12. Only bacteria and archaea have the enzymes required for its synthesis, although many foods are a natural source of B12 because of bacterial symbiosis. The vitamin is the largest and most structurally complicated vitamin and can be produced industrially only through bacterial fermentation-synthesis.

And when we say 'many foods,' we don't mean foods that vegans will eat. We mean meat. This is from the Vegitarian Resource Group as they discuss B-12 issues and veganism:

Tempeh, miso, sea vegetables, and other plant foods are sometimes reported to contain vitamin B12. These products, however, are not reliable sources of the vitamin. The standard method for measuring vitamin B12 in foods measures both active and inactive forms of vitamin B12. The inactive form (also called analogues) actually interferes with normal vitamin B12 absorption and metabolism (6). When only active vitamin B12 is measured, plant foods including fermented soyfoods and sea vegetables do not contain significant amounts of active vitamin B12 (7).

Very small amounts of vitamin B12 have been found in plants grown in soil treated with manure (8). It is not clear whether this vitamin B12 is the active form or the inactive analogue. In any case, the amounts are so small that more than 23 cups of organically grown spinach would have to be eaten every day in order to meet the adult RDA for vitamin B12 (8,9). :

Tempeh is fermented soybean cakes. That's done on an industrial basis is problematic because unless you ensure the right bacteria is in the mix and properly nurtured you can get tempeh that doesn't have B-12. Even worse, if you get the WRONG bacteria (which is extremely common) you'll produce a B-12 analog that prevents you from using B-12.

Sort of the B-12 equivalent of breathing carbon monoxide which replaces oxygen in hemoglobin.

Miso, sea vegetables and seaweed all have the same problem. While they MAY have the symbiotic bacteria that produces B-12, it's not guaranteed. Further, they often have symbiotic bacteria that produce B-12 analogs causing B-12 issues.

Now, I have friends that have been, for long stretches, Vegans. They didn't preach. Nor did they pretend this would work anywhere but in an industrialized society where their food choices could be catered to due to the reality of needing vitamin and mineral supplements because vegan diets are, by nature, incomplete.

We can no more be herbivores (Vitamin B-12) than we can be carnivores (Vitamin C). And for we omnivores to go either route requires appropriate technology and support for us to not suffer the consequences of one of these unsustainable diets. Something that's only (in practical terms) available in the more technologically sophisticated and wealthy parts of the world.

And certainly not on some 10-acre, mule-powered farm in the middle of the jungle.

[Ericb]

I'm trying to imagine sex with a spider, the best I can do is a giant spider with his pedipalps stuck up Welch's arse sans KY

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[Mykeru]

It is possible, but HIGHLY unlikely. Very few people are going to grow their own cotton, gin it, weave it, etc. The number of times I've had some vegan tit lecture me about my leather coat whilst head to toe in petroleum byproducts is a number too high to bother counting anymore.

No! No! No! Bad! Wrong! Bad Welch!

Why does Cotton Kill?

Why does Cotton Kill?

Have you ever wondered why people say Cotton Kills? Do you understand exactly why? Here’s an in-depth explanation as well as a list of other fabrics that you should avoid when shopping for hiking clothes.

Clothing keeps you warm by trapping warm air near your skin. When cotton gets wet, it ceases to insulate you because all of the air pockets in the fabric fill up with water. When you hike, you perspire, and any cotton clothing touching your skin will absorb your sweat like a sponge.

If the air is colder than your body temperature , you’ll feel cold because your cotton clothing is saturated and no longer providing any insulation. This can lead to disorientation, hypothermia, and potentially death if you become too chilled. Remember, hypothermia can occur in temperatures well above freezing and become serious if you get wet and chilled.

Wicking and Layering

In addition, wet cotton does not wick water away from your skin. Wicking fabrics move water from wet areas to dry ones using a process called capilary action. For example, a wicking baselayer shirt made out of Patagonia Capilene will move moisture from the surface of your skin to the outer layers of your shirt leaving the part of the fabric touching your skin dry. This is why layering is such an effective clothing strategy for hiking, because wicking fabrics move water away from your skin and up through your layers one after another, enabling the fabric near your skin to trap insulating air and retain your body’s warmth.

Wool

Wool does not wick as well as synthetic garments and will absorb up to 36% of its weight in water. Unlike cotton, it does insulate when wet and is considered an acceptable fabric for hiking clothes.

Other Forms of Cotton

Avoid wearing garments that are labelled as corduroy, denim, flannel, or duck. These are all made with cotton. In addition, steer clear of cotton-polyester blends, for example 50/50. They’ll still kill you, although it may take a little longer.

Other Fabrics to Avoid

Modal, rayon, viscose, tencel and lyocell are all manufactured fabrics made from cellulose fiber. They absorb water even faster than cotton and lose all of their insulation value when wet. You should also be very careful with clothing made from Bamboo, which is often advertised as being a green product having characteristics comparable to wool. Many bamboo fabrics are actually just a type of rayon and share all of its pitfalls.

Silk is also very absorbent and loses its insulation value when wet.