Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Sunder]

Aron Ra's speaking voice isn't that good at all. Depends with who you compare him with I guess.

I think he's decent, and in the FtB/Skepchick crowd I can't really think of anyone who's a great speaker.

Also speaking of FtB and books I heard Greta had a new one out. Anyone heard anything about it?

[Southern]

Interesting comment from the Fox News Myers piece:

http://i.imgur.com/WzS3LEp.png

I'd read that Peezus wasn't confrontational in-person. I wonder if the account is accurate.

Yeah, I bet he's 6'3" 220 lbs of pure muscules, strong as an ox, powerful as the thunder, and he was this close to releasing his inner beast and beating this guy to a pulp, but then he managed to control himself.

I get this all the time. I'm so powerful and skilled and badass when I go out with my trenchcoat and katana, I have to remind myself all the time that normal humans must be spared from my rage. But it's hard, I tell you, so hard to be awesome.

[Dick Strawkins]

@ Mykero et al
one last thing: has anyone come forward with anything corroborating the KS accusations from this rally cry? http://web.archive.org/web/201308120314 ... acking-it/

Not in response to Greta, but this guy Joe Anderson was interviewed for the CFI investigation and claims he can back up the harassment charges. Apparently, he was around while she kvetched about messages coming in from Radford.

http://www.morethanmen.org/2013/08/12/j ... n-you-ben/

http://imgur.com/8VKszSf.jpg
http://imgur.com/akYWP6Q.jpg
http://imgur.com/cZDKIyP.jpg

The CFI investigation did, according to Lindsay, find Radford guilty of harassment.
Of course we don't know the details but there is at least some chance that Radford may have done things that appeared to be harassment to others.

[Dick Strawkins]

Interesting comment from the Fox News Myers piece:

http://i.imgur.com/WzS3LEp.png

I'd read that Peezus wasn't confrontational in-person. I wonder if the account is accurate.

Yeah, I bet he's 6'3" 220 lbs of pure muscules, strong as an ox, powerful as the thunder, and he was this close to releasing his inner beast and beating this guy to a pulp, but then he managed to control himself.

I get this all the time. I'm so powerful and skilled and badass when I go out with my trenchcoat and katana, I have to remind myself all the time that normal humans must be spared from my rage. But it's hard, I tell you, so hard to be awesome.

I call bullshit on that comment.
For a start Myers has a son in the military so it is highly unlikely he is that anti-military in real life.
And second, I've never heard anyone previously claim that Myers acted violently in real life.
He's famous for being an internet tough guy but a chicken in real life.

[AnonymousCowherd]

@ Mykero et al
one last thing: has anyone come forward with anything corroborating the KS accusations from this rally cry? http://web.archive.org/web/201308120314 ... acking-it/

I haven't heard of anything - although Stollznow herself did recently claim (in her fundraiser video) that there were witnesses to the sexual assault.
Someone said that one of the accusations is that the sexual assault occured during the panel TAM12 talk in which Stollznow sat between Radford and Baxter.

[youtube]Nh3wmSg93LM[/youtube]

An awful lot of this case is going to turn on how "sexual assault" is defined. The libel case is that The Stolz accused Radford of sexual assault and if that is defined in the narrow sense of most criminal law, then Stolz will have a hard time defending her claim since Radford has never been reported for, charged with, or convicted of that crime. If the definition is wider, then her task is easier - just show some unwanted, vaguely sex related behaviour took place. But that is not normally sexual assault, it's sexual harassment, which is not what Stolz said.

The harassment angle only comes in when the fraud accusation is raised. Radford denies the sexual harassment as well, at least to the extent covered by the CFI investigation (and any other alleged instances of it are irrelevant) because he wants to claim she fraudulently mislead the CFI investigator. If his email forensics stand up, this is looking pretty straightforward for him, given the results of the independent investigation.

The Stolz's attempts to interfere with his earnings are pretty well documented too, so you can see why Radford won't want to try to get Stolz banned from anywhere - it's not just ungentlemanly, it's what he's suing her for doing.

That said, there are a million details that can blow that neat summary out of the water in a court. The outcome is always a gamble.

[Southern]

Do you have kids that look up to you as a role model? You do. Will they have any respect for you when they are older? HELL NO.

http://i.imgur.com/yL1fKfq.jpg

Is that true? So why people are trying to stop her from drinking?

Elyse, you keep on drinking, girl. Drink a lot. Drink, drink, drink until you feel it on your anus.

[AnonymousCowherd]

I see her behavior consistent with that of someone who has severe depression and anxiety attacks.
I'm not qualified to talk about PTSD but I would have thought that that was more likely to be associated with a major event rather than a drip-drip annoyance of trolls on twitter.

As for the CFI's administrative response to this problem, I feel that their hands are tied. Hensley is incredibly valuable to the SJL. She is their inside person and gets funded to essentially promote full time the agenda of 'Secular Women' through the annual WISC conference.
I can't see WISC continuing if Hensley resigned from CFI due to health reasons.
The CFI leadership must know that any move in the direction of removing Hensley will result in a huge campaign against them for 'failing to stand up to internet bullies', or whatever.
I don't think they have the strength to survive such an attack.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Seriously, at the minute they don't appear to have any strength at all. How effective can they be as lobbyists?

Is the brand that worth saving in it's current form?

[deLurch]

If she is sick (and not just faking it for victimhood points or just plain old malingering), then CFI should demand that she go off on sick leave. If they have a medical plan that has long term sick pay, then they should put her on it.

After 1.5 years of this, I am pretty sure she has used up all of her short term and long term sick leave. All she should have on the table left at this point is time off work without pay, which she may have used up too. At this point, she is probably in a situation where she either has to work, or end her employment because she can't do her job.

If not, then like every other sick person in the US, who is no longer able to work, she should go on gov't disability. Not as much $ as working, but she's unable to work.

We don't need her leeching off of our tax dollars. She just shouldn't be working in public high profile positions. She clearly is not mentally capable of it.

She claims to have been bedridden for so long that she needs physiotherapy, something I don't believe. Wasn't she even seen at a conference or two during that year and a half?

If it means someone getting on her ass to get up off her ass and get some exercise, I think that would be good for her both physically & mentally. I have a friend who ate herself into such an obese state that she doesn't want to leave her apartment. Clearly not a good thing for her.

The CFI should require proper medical verification from her, complete with signed release of information consent forms.

I am pretty sure that has occurred to the satisfaction of CFI. Most companies won't question it if they get a letter from a psychologist. But the paid support only lasts so long. And any accommodations provided, are only good if she can still perform her work.

Personally, I think Melody has either made up the PTSD thing or was told it by someone unqualified to diagnose such things.

I think what someone discovered in her twitter history is more likely the truth. She was told she had PTSD "like" symptoms and she has stretched this to say that she has PTSD. I don't think anyone here is doubting she has some serious mental issues going on. And telling her to cowboy the fuck up isn't going to solve any of it. There are plenty of other mental conditions that would put her on the same leave road she is on now.

[Service Dog]

http://i.imgur.com/w2kzStx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/J7mtej9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nTmnHYr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QITlWjR.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/AdzjjnB.jpg

[AnonymousCowherd]

@ Mykero et al
one last thing: has anyone come forward with anything corroborating the KS accusations from this rally cry? http://web.archive.org/web/201308120314 ... acking-it/

Not in response to Greta, but this guy Joe Anderson was interviewed for the CFI investigation and claims he can back up the harassment charges. Apparently, he was around while she kvetched about messages coming in from Radford.

http://www.morethanmen.org/2013/08/12/j ... n-you-ben/

[img]http://imgur.com/8VKszSf.jpg
[img]http://imgur.com/akYWP6Q.jpg
[img]http://imgur.com/cZDKIyP.jpg]

The CFI investigation did, according to Lindsay, find Radford guilty of harassment.
Of course we don't know the details but there is at least some chance that Radford may have done things that appeared to be harassment to others.

According to Radford, the finding was based on the (falsely dated) emails, the suggestion of sex in a hotel room (when they were still having an on again- off again affair, which Stolz denies but Radford supports with other emails) and Smoochgate, in which Radford briefly blocked KS's way at a conference - he says for an argument, she says to demand a kiss.

If it was my private life, I'd be so embarrassed to trot all this out in front of a court, I couldn't keep a straight face.

[Snapfingers]

That said, there are a million details that can blow that neat summary out of the water in a court. The outcome is always a gamble.

Yeah, I have been reading the case on and off for some time. But en ref to "the outcome is always a gamble" I don't agree. Even if BR wins both the libel and the fraud suit 100 % unquestionably, it will not help him. He will always be guilty. Maybe only a little (smoke/fire doubt) with the most levelheaded, but with the true believers his victory will be on the basis of a corrupt judge or jury (patriarchal bias) OR that she was influenced by some kind of Stockholm syndrome OR that he falsified evidence OR supernanothermite OR some kind of combination of the above. They will continue to smear him for ever. He can never win in the meaning "getting reputation restored". So the outcome is only variations of how badly he loses.

[Hunt]

As for the CFI's administrative response to this problem, I feel that their hands are tied. Hensley is incredibly valuable to the SJL. She is their inside person and gets funded to essentially promote full time the agenda of 'Secular Women' through the annual WISC conference.
I can't see WISC continuing if Hensley resigned from CFI due to health reasons.
The CFI leadership must know that any move in the direction of removing Hensley will result in a huge campaign against them for 'failing to stand up to internet bullies', or whatever.
I don't think they have the strength to survive such an attack.

Hensley operates under the assumption that if CFI crosses her too much, she'll call in the rage blog attack dogs and threaten their funding. I'm sure the Lindsey affair cemented that opinion. She's running a protection racket against them. They are enthralled to her.

[deLurch]

[youtube]Nh3wmSg93LM[/youtube]

Thanks! So the PROOF is on videotape: At 5:06 he hands her the microphone as if it was a huge penis. What an entitled scumbag.

No. Right here is where the threats come in. The Skeptic Raping Bat Daemon.

[Service Dog]

I call bullshit on that comment.
For a start Myers has a son in the military so it is highly unlikely he is that anti-military in real life.....

I think the only way to honor veterans of war is to make sure there are no more veterans. They are not heroes, but victims. There is nothing brave or heroic about picking up a gun and threatening to kill someone for a matter of principle, or even worse, because someone else is ordering you to do so — and the repercussions of celebrating violence tear our society apart.
....
So on this Veterans Day, I choose to honor the conscientious objectors and the Charlotte Pommers of the world, rather than the participants in war. They are the real heroes, the ones who made the greatest sacrifices to better humanity.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ves-honor/

[Hunt]

The only way CFI will fire Hensley is if public opinion turns against her in a big way. The current little kerfluffle MAY be sufficient, but quite possibly not. If it does, they'll have an excuse to boot her ass out with a rationale even the SJL won't be able to counter.

In the end, it's all politics.

[Ape+lust]

The CFI investigation did, according to Lindsay, find Radford guilty of harassment.
Of course we don't know the details but there is at least some chance that Radford may have done things that appeared to be harassment to others.

Yep. Plenty mo' twists and drama coming, I'm sure.

I can hardly believe this cheap juvenile horseshit is what's become of what Harris, Dawkins, Dennett, and Hitchens started in America. Not even Scientific American is unsullied. I hope PZ (who's on Twitter right now, pretending to not know about the Mail) is pleased with himself.

[Kenteken]

I can hardly believe this cheap juvenile horseshit is what's become of what Harris, Dawkins, Dennett, and Hitchens started in America. Not even Scientific American is unsullied. I hope PZ (who's on Twitter right now, pretending to not know about the Mail) is pleased with himself.

The intellectual gap is staggering.

[Ape+lust]

I've never seen an organization embarrassed out of existence before, CFI will be my first. A Daily Mail point-and-laugh feature is a hell of a thing for a group of 'rational skeptics' to live down. Maybe Lindsay can get an apology before the board commits seppuku disappears into the hills.

Sweet Jeebus, this is amazing.

I am amazed this hasn't shown up on fox news yet.

Oh, look.

http://imgur.com/FaW02P5.png

(Shepard Smith's booker)

[Hunt]

The CFI investigation did, according to Lindsay, find Radford guilty of harassment.
Of course we don't know the details but there is at least some chance that Radford may have done things that appeared to be harassment to others.

Well, we can know that for sure. PZ is virtually sure of it! If the only thing anyone had to go on was Stollznow's account, _I_ would believe she was harassed, but that was before all this stuff about post-dated emails, etc. I was certainly more sanguine about the prospect of Radford's guilt than I was about any kind of judgement regarding the Shermer affair, which just pissed me off to no end. The Shermer affair was just a blatant miscarriage of the rational process, and that even accounting for the possibility that Shermer was/is dead guilty! Stollznow at least has a plausible story that doesn't cross all bounds of skeptical prudence. The problem for Stollznow is that Ben Radford also has a story...

[debaser71]

"I was in much the same position when Rebecca received threats after her YouTube post, giving guys advice on how not to come off as creepy. And when Elyse received the same types of threats after her post on how not to come off as creepy."

from that joe anderson blog....

Oh fuck you, Joe.

And all 'we' are doing is giving gals advice on how not to come off as psycho bitches. All good? Ok? Eh?

[Sulman]

I've never seen an organization embarrassed out of existence before, CFI will be my first. A Daily Mail point-and-laugh feature is a hell of a thing for a group of 'rational skeptics' to live down. Maybe Lindsay can get an apology before the board commits seppuku disappears into the hills.

Sweet Jeebus, this is amazing.

I am amazed this hasn't shown up on fox news yet.

Oh, look.

http://imgur.com/FaW02P5.png

(Shepard Smith's booker)

EG needs to get his side in. Stat.

[Brive1987]

@ Mykero et al
one last thing: has anyone come forward with anything corroborating the KS accusations from this rally cry? http://web.archive.org/web/201308120314 ... acking-it/

I haven't heard of anything - although Stollznow herself did recently claim (in her fundraiser video) that there were witnesses to the sexual assault.
Someone said that one of the accusations is that the sexual assault occured during the panel TAM12 talk in which Stollznow sat between Radford and Baxter.

[youtube]Nh3wmSg93LM[/youtube]

Who was it that had second hand evidence that the door blocking move was actually reap?

And KS own article clearly states at least one work colleague thought he was "creepy"

The rest of the hard evidence is locked in Damion's box of tricks.

[Pitchguest]

I've been off the booze for 3 weeks now (not a single drop) and I find myself easily angered by all that bullshit. But I won't walk away from the drama. Anger can be a good thing, despite whatever Yoda says.

Congrats - I guess. But I wonder - first the cigarettes, now the booze; what's next? Sex? ;-)

Wiener off his wiener? ;)

[Matt Cavanaugh]

http://i.imgur.com/AHCqQGt.jpg

That photo is so fake! They just stuck a mustache on Ayn Rand.

[Brive1987]

I haven't heard of anything - although Stollznow herself did recently claim (in her fundraiser video) that there were witnesses to the sexual assault.
Someone said that one of the accusations is that the sexual assault occured during the panel TAM12 talk in which Stollznow sat between Radford and Baxter.

[youtube]Nh3wmSg93LM[/youtube]

An awful lot of this case is going to turn on how "sexual assault" is defined. The libel case is that The Stolz accused Radford of sexual assault and if that is defined in the narrow sense of most criminal law, then Stolz will have a hard time defending her claim since Radford has never been reported for, charged with, or convicted of that crime. If the definition is wider, then her task is easier - just show some unwanted, vaguely sex related behaviour took place. But that is not normally sexual assault, it's sexual harassment, which is not what Stolz said.

The harassment angle only comes in when the fraud accusation is raised. Radford denies the sexual harassment as well, at least to the extent covered by the CFI investigation (and any other alleged instances of it are irrelevant) because he wants to claim she fraudulently mislead the CFI investigator. If his email forensics stand up, this is looking pretty straightforward for him, given the results of the independent investigation.

The Stolz's attempts to interfere with his earnings are pretty well documented too, so you can see why Radford won't want to try to get Stolz banned from anywhere - it's not just ungentlemanly, it's what he's suing her for doing.

That said, there are a million details that can blow that neat summary out of the water in a court. The outcome is always a gamble.

This is an outrage. Someone should do something to help him clear his name and defend A/S from the slurs of Henslyesque wackaloons.....

[Really?]

I call bullshit on that comment.
For a start Myers has a son in the military so it is highly unlikely he is that anti-military in real life.....

I think the only way to honor veterans of war is to make sure there are no more veterans. They are not heroes, but victims. There is nothing brave or heroic about picking up a gun and threatening to kill someone for a matter of principle, or even worse, because someone else is ordering you to do so — and the repercussions of celebrating violence tear our society apart.
....
So on this Veterans Day, I choose to honor the conscientious objectors and the Charlotte Pommers of the world, rather than the participants in war. They are the real heroes, the ones who made the greatest sacrifices to better humanity.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ves-honor/

THANK YOU. I had forgotten what it was, but I tried reminding everyone that PZ doesn't much care for veterans, either.

[welch]

I'm glad that her friends are showing concern for her. Even a cold-hearted, misogynistic #atheistdudebro like me is starting to worry about her.

It's always a good thing when your enabling e-friends defend your alcoholism. Alcoholism is healthy, it's just patriarchal oppression that shames alcoholic womyn and brainwashes them to think starting a wine binge at 9 AM is bad.

But whatever. Fuck it, she's either crazy or trolling. Somebody should put together a trolling account on twitter and just go nuts on her. You know she'll take the bait because she can't help it.

Simple. Someone tell her that the slymepit pretty much all agree she should lay off the booze as it does not appear to be good for her to drink as much as she does. Thus in a strike against the patriarchal misogynists she goes on a full on binge (I have no idea how it could get worse).

I genuinely feel bad for the people in her life who care about her. Her, somewhat less bad, but being friends or family with someone like that just sucks.

[welch]

Isn't the whole "drinking and partying" thing very dudebro in and of itself?

Why are these feminist women behaving like a bunch of drunken frat boys?

I think it's also very sorority.

She's the DC version of a trixie http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trixie

[welch]

Yeah, turns out this whole bitchfit is over a drag queen using the word "tranny." Yes, even the part about trying to fire him.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones ... rea-james/

Oh and by the way, yes, it does seem to be the much-loved Pit icon, Ru Paul.

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@ZJemptv If a cis gay dude doesn't get it and goes out of his way to defend it, I have no respect for him what so ever. I'm so over them.

Parker Marie Molloy ‏@ParkerMolloy Apr 14

Kind of entertaining watching @RuPaul tweet all sorts of passive-aggressive thinly veiled complaints about those darn trans people.

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@noahmichelson has no business being the Executive Editor of @HuffPostGay when he is so unsupportive of trans people. @ParkerMolloy

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

A gay cis man like @noahmichelson doesn't get to decide what is oppressive language to most trans women.

GAY CIS MAN. CHECK UR MOTHERFUCKING PRIV, MATE. The day has come, and now toxic feminism is tearing into itself.

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@cathrynfraser Trans women are saying they are being abused with these words. That these words are violence against them. @noahmichelson

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@noahmichelson A drag queen is NOT a trans woman. A drag queen does not get to use slurs against trans women. NO. @sejhammer @ParkerMolloy

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@cathrynfraser Drag performers are NOT part of the trans community unless they are trans. That's BS. @noahmichelson

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@noahmichelson A cis person in drag is not part of the trans community. @cathrynfraser

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 14

@cathrynfraser I think I can comfortably say that a cis person in drag is not part of the trans community as a CIS WOMAN. @noahmichelson

So people in drag who aren't explicitly trans according to her definition, welcome to CIS SCUM territory. They are not allowed to use words like "tranny," never ever ever not ever forever.

And for the bonus round...

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 15

So I hear Thunderfuck is responsible for this cybermob attacking me. He should join up with AVfM and make it official.

Melody Hensley ‏@MelodyHensley Apr 15

That video is harassment.

Of course. :roll:

And believe me, there is so much more of this toxic bullshit on her twitter page. I highly recommend people at least read it.

It's so sad she's so disabled by her PTSD that she can't get on the internet.

[Brive1987]

Let's see. Carrie Potty left JREf after all of 6 months.

Her tenure there was marked by:

In my time at the JREF, I witnessed continuous unethical behavior, much of which I reported to the Board of Directors.

Meanwhile KS bypasses her employer CFI and goes direct to JREF to get BR blacklisted and then she goes to their Board when DJ won't satisfy her. ;)

Do any of these women understand how the real world works? Bonkers, the lot of them.

[Dick Strawkins]

I call bullshit on that comment.
For a start Myers has a son in the military so it is highly unlikely he is that anti-military in real life.....

I think the only way to honor veterans of war is to make sure there are no more veterans. They are not heroes, but victims. There is nothing brave or heroic about picking up a gun and threatening to kill someone for a matter of principle, or even worse, because someone else is ordering you to do so — and the repercussions of celebrating violence tear our society apart.
....
So on this Veterans Day, I choose to honor the conscientious objectors and the Charlotte Pommers of the world, rather than the participants in war. They are the real heroes, the ones who made the greatest sacrifices to better humanity.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ves-honor/

THANK YOU. I had forgotten what it was, but I tried reminding everyone that PZ doesn't much care for veterans, either.

I don't have any doubt that he blusters against the military on his blog.
It's the idea that he had a furious argument with a calm 6 foot 2 military guy trying to set up a table at a student event, that's what I find hard to believe.

[welch]

http://i.imgur.com/v1tWzLz.jpg

I admit to wanting to see Kylie Sonique Love to win this round.

http://i.imgur.com/XFZaSli.jpg

So I pick her side. You can have Melody's side or whatever. I'm on Team SoniqueLove. Because Hensley.

Melody Hensley throwing down with a drag queen is like a sea cucumber throwing down with a rabid killer whale. She gonna lose, the only question is how many pieces she gonna get ripped into before Kylie decides she's bored.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

people were attacking was Melody's campaign of trying to fire trans

I missed the trans thing. Anyone care to fill me in?

Sometimes, somebody born with a pee-pee feels they should have been born with a vajajay, or vice versa. Therefore, sex is just a social construct. The End.

[Brive1987]

She is there 6 months and how was her relationship with the Boss in those few months?

but after several months of waiting and being asked to wait, it became clear that D.J. was not going to be fired.

Fucking loon.

[welch]

Doing my usual Audible shopping to entertain myself on an 8 hour drive I've done time and time again, and saw this:

The Happy Atheist Audiobook P. Z. Myers Audible.com.png

Narrated by...

Buddy-buddy buck-making incest.

If I had the patience, I'd SO do my own version as either goofy or Mr. Hanky.

:hankey:

[welch]

Do you have kids that look up to you as a role model? You do. Will they have any respect for you when they are older? HELL NO.

http://i.imgur.com/yL1fKfq.jpg

Is that true? So why people are trying to stop her from drinking?

Elyse, you keep on drinking, girl. Drink a lot. Drink, drink, drink until you feel it on your anus.

She already does. Why do you think her husband is so happy that she drinks?

[welch]

If she is sick (and not just faking it for victimhood points or just plain old malingering), then CFI should demand that she go off on sick leave. If they have a medical plan that has long term sick pay, then they should put her on it.

After 1.5 years of this, I am pretty sure she has used up all of her short term and long term sick leave. All she should have on the table left at this point is time off work without pay, which she may have used up too. At this point, she is probably in a situation where she either has to work, or end her employment because she can't do her job.

If not, then like every other sick person in the US, who is no longer able to work, she should go on gov't disability. Not as much $ as working, but she's unable to work.

We don't need her leeching off of our tax dollars. She just shouldn't be working in public high profile positions. She clearly is not mentally capable of it.

She claims to have been bedridden for so long that she needs physiotherapy, something I don't believe. Wasn't she even seen at a conference or two during that year and a half?

If it means someone getting on her ass to get up off her ass and get some exercise, I think that would be good for her both physically & mentally. I have a friend who ate herself into such an obese state that she doesn't want to leave her apartment. Clearly not a good thing for her.

The CFI should require proper medical verification from her, complete with signed release of information consent forms.

I am pretty sure that has occurred to the satisfaction of CFI. Most companies won't question it if they get a letter from a psychologist. But the paid support only lasts so long. And any accommodations provided, are only good if she can still perform her work.

Personally, I think Melody has either made up the PTSD thing or was told it by someone unqualified to diagnose such things.

I think what someone discovered in her twitter history is more likely the truth. She was told she had PTSD "like" symptoms and she has stretched this to say that she has PTSD. I don't think anyone here is doubting she has some serious mental issues going on. And telling her to cowboy the fuck up isn't going to solve any of it. There are plenty of other mental conditions that would put her on the same leave road she is on now.

Working from Home. There's very little she has to do that can't be done via Email/IM/videochat of some form

[debaser71]

Let's see. Carrie Potty left JREf after all of 6 months.

Her tenure there was marked by:

In my time at the JREF, I witnessed continuous unethical behavior, much of which I reported to the Board of Directors.

Meanwhile KS bypasses her employer CFI and goes direct to JREF to get BR blacklisted and then she goes to their Board when DJ won't satisfy her. ;)

Do any of these women understand how the real world works? Bonkers, the lot of them.

Ladies, don't be entitled THAT psycho bitch.

That's me giving thoughtful advice on how women can not come off as batshit crazy professional victim bitches.

See, how that works, assholes?

[DaveDodo007]

I see her behavior consistent with that of someone who has severe depression and anxiety attacks.
I'm not qualified to talk about PTSD but I would have thought that that was more likely to be associated with a major event rather than a drip-drip annoyance of trolls on twitter.

As for the CFI's administrative response to this problem, I feel that their hands are tied. Hensley is incredibly valuable to the SJL. She is their inside person and gets funded to essentially promote full time the agenda of 'Secular Women' through the annual WISC conference.
I can't see WISC continuing if Hensley resigned from CFI due to health reasons.
The CFI leadership must know that any move in the direction of removing Hensley will result in a huge campaign against them for 'failing to stand up to internet bullies', or whatever.
I don't think they have the strength to survive such an attack.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

Seriously, at the minute they don't appear to have any strength at all. How effective can they be as lobbyists?

Is the brand that worth saving in it's current form?

This should stand as a warning to all atheist/secular organizations. JRef bit the bullet and told them to fuck off were as CFI bent over backwards to accommodate the feminist/SJW loonies and all they did was bite the hand that fed them. I'm looking at you American Atheists.

[Ape+lust]

I don't have any doubt that he blusters against the military on his blog.
It's the idea that he had a furious argument with a calm 6 foot 2 military guy trying to set up a table at a student event, that's what I find hard to believe.

If nothing else, his weedy voice would fracture into a squelched fart if he tried to yell hard enough to spray spit.

The one time I've seen him talk to someone like he blogs is when he told Sye Ten Bruggencate he was a "slimy motherfucker." He immediately followed that with a nervous giggle so he wouldn't be mistaken for belligerent and get his face popped inside out.

[Za-zen]

I don't find recruiter boy's claim of being verbally assailed by a raging peezeus very credible.

A: because peezeus is a wimpet.

B: because if it actually did take place, the first thing peezeus would have done, was scurry back to his keyboard to outrage at campus security assaulting him and facilitating the kidnapping of young people to be used as oppressors of minorities.

[Dick Strawkins]

I don't have any doubt that he blusters against the military on his blog.
It's the idea that he had a furious argument with a calm 6 foot 2 military guy trying to set up a table at a student event, that's what I find hard to believe.

If nothing else, his weedy voice would fracture into a squelched fart if he tried to yell hard enough to spray spit.

The one time I've seen him talk to someone like he blogs is when he told Sye Ten Bruggencate he was a "slimy motherfucker." He immediately followed that with a nervous giggle so he wouldn't be mistaken for belligerent and get his face popped inside out.

Was that at the reason rally?
If so he was surrounded by tens of thousands of atheists - and being filmed. I think he would have been safe from the risk of a violent reaction from Bruggencate.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

@ Mykero et al
one last thing: has anyone come forward with anything corroborating the KS accusations from this rally cry? http://web.archive.org/web/201308120314 ... acking-it/

I haven't heard of anything - although Stollznow herself did recently claim (in her fundraiser video) that there were witnesses to the sexual assault.
Someone said that one of the accusations is that the sexual assault occured during the panel TAM12 talk in which Stollznow sat between Radford and Baxter.

[youtube]Nh3wmSg93LM[/youtube]

IIRC, KS claims three incidences of "Sexual Assault" at TAMs:
1) BR tries to force himself on her in her hotel room;
2) BR bars her way during an argument, tries to kiss her;
3) During the panel, BR sends her dirty notes, massages her thigh under the table.

No witnesses to 1); a couple of KS's friends claim to have witnessed 2); we can all be witnesses to 3) by watching the video, and wondering why she's sitting inches from her abuser, yet a full yard from her hubby.

As for the four years of sexual harassment, we only have Carrie Poppy confirming that KS complained about BR stalking her, and this Anderson douche, friend to all the baboons, who confirms that KS showed him all of BRs emails, texts, etc. But KS surely lied to Anderson about her ongoing affair with BR.

And yes, KS used the terms "Sexual Harassment" and "Sexual Assault" to describe actions which, in whatever context, do not meet those legal definitions. Any reasonable person, and especially someone with a PhD in Linguistics, should know that was false. So technically, it's a slam dunk for BR, but most case are won or lost in voir dire.

[Ape+lust]

If nothing else, his weedy voice would fracture into a squelched fart if he tried to yell hard enough to spray spit.

The one time I've seen him talk to someone like he blogs is when he told Sye Ten Bruggencate he was a "slimy motherfucker." He immediately followed that with a nervous giggle so he wouldn't be mistaken for belligerent and get his face popped inside out.

Was that at the reason rally?
If so he was surrounded by tens of thousands of atheists - and being filmed. I think he would have been safe from the risk of a violent reaction from Bruggencate.

Yeah, that was it. Sure, Peez was could be fairly certain nothing would happen. But what could he do if he did say the wrong thing to a berserker? Nothing. He could barely climb aboard the Creation Museum dinosaur, he can't outrun anyone. So it was, "...because you're a slimy motherfucker, heh-heh-heh." :lol:

[Ape+lust]

She is there 6 months and how was her relationship with the Boss in those few months?

but after several months of waiting and being asked to wait, it became clear that D.J. was not going to be fired.

Fucking loon.

Haha. Then there's Sarah Moglia, Dawkins' gofer during his US book tour, who told us about how he blacklisted Watson from the Reason Rally.

http://imgur.com/eC470Wk.png

In September, the Beacon of Truth crushed her. Horrible man. But by November...

http://imgur.com/DAeWXNt.jpg

http://rantasarahrex.blogspot.com/2011/ ... chick.html

[Sunder]

There's something that just feels dishonest when you see the huge disconnect between how someone acts online and how they act in real life.

I think we all do that to a degree and it's pretty obvious that when you look at the worst-behaved people online that almost none of them could get through an actual life acting the way they do.

But still when you watch someone like PZ be a milksop in public and a tinpot dictator in his safe spaces, it's just really irritating even beyond the fact that he's a contemptible, smug, self-righteous dipshit.

Then you look at the surviving Horsemen whose public, professional, and online personas are all in sync and it's just refreshing.

[Apples]

I've never seen an organization embarrassed out of existence before, CFI will be my first. A Daily Mail point-and-laugh feature is a hell of a thing for a group of 'rational skeptics' to live down. Maybe Lindsay can get an apology before the board commits seppuku disappears into the hills.

Sweet Jeebus, this is amazing.

I am amazed this hasn't shown up on fox news yet.

Oh, look.

http://imgur.com/FaW02P5.png

(Shepard Smith's booker)

Nuh-uh. Not gonna happen. Shep smith is Teh Gay and probly hates #tranzies***@#! (#diecisgayscumtransmisogynist)

[Apples]

http://i.imgur.com/AHCqQGt.jpg

That photo is so fake! They just stuck a mustache on Ayn Rand.

zing!

[Kenteken]

The rest of the hard evidence is locked in Damion's box of tricks.

You know that KS went of the record with him? Perhaps she has given him real hard evidence.

[Skep tickle]

Secular Woman has posted an interview with Karen Stolznow [sic]:
http://www.secularwoman.org/interview_karen_stolznow

http://i.imgur.com/7luc3Ks.png?1

[Really?]

Secular Woman has posted an interview with Karen Stolznow [sic]:
http://www.secularwoman.org/interview_karen_stolznow

http://i.imgur.com/7luc3Ks.png?1

Cocktease. That's like doing an interview with OJ and never asking him about the whole double murder thing.

[Dick Strawkins]

Secular Woman has posted an interview with Karen Stolznow [sic]:
http://www.secularwoman.org/interview_karen_stolznow

http://i.imgur.com/7luc3Ks.png?1

Two questions brushed upon the current issue.

SW: Do you feel you were treated differently in skepticism because you are a woman? If so, how? Any examples?

KS: As far as opportunities are concerned, my answer is no. However, I’ve had some unfortunate personal experiences as a woman in skepticism. Within the community I’ve encountered sexism, and have been the victim of sexual harassment and sexual assault. I think many men and women are aware of these problems within skepticism, if they haven’t been affected personally. Unfortunately, a minority of skeptics prefer to look the other way, reinterpret this behavior as flattery, or dismiss it with, “boys will be boys”. Some are even denialists, but these people are often the culprits. I’m hopeful these problems will disappear with a greater awareness of these issues, an inevitable changing of the guard, and as skepticism matures over time.


SW: What do you enjoy doing outside of skepticism?

KS: When I’m not cooped up in my office or writing in a coffee shop, I like to go walking, hiking, and to the gym or the beach (just not when living in Colorado, obviously). I enjoy traveling, art, music, cooking, and trying out exotic restaurants. I love reading about anything to do with language, history, and culture. Most of all, I adore spending every second I can with my husband, Matthew Baxter, who is also a skeptical paranormal investigator, which means there’s little I do outside of skepticism!
- See more at: http://www.secularwoman.org/interview_k ... XwIMy.dpuf

[Kenteken]

I genuinely feel bad for the people in her life who care about her. Her, somewhat less bad, but being friends or family with someone like that just sucks.

I do feel bad for her but she's an adult (in)capable to make her own choices. I'll probably never engage with her on Twitter, it just doesn't feel right.

But I feel really bad for her kid who she recently used to emphasize her twitter hurt. I don't think there lies a bright future ahead for the kid, but I sure hope I'm wrong.

[Skep tickle]

I was amused by their misspelling her last name. In several places.

[Skep tickle]

I am amazed this [MH PTSD twitter thing] hasn't shown up on fox news yet.

Oh, look.

http://imgur.com/FaW02P5.png

(Shepard Smith's booker)

Nuh-uh. Not gonna happen. Shep smith is Teh Gay and probly hates #tranzies***@#! (#diecisgayscumtransmisogynist)

I didn't know who Shepard Smith was. The 2nd tweet below helped explain it.

Kelly has good journalistic instincts; look what info she sometimes includes in her tweets but left off the one to MH:
http://i.imgur.com/GNA49Ts.png?1

[welch]

There's something that just feels dishonest when you see the huge disconnect between how someone acts online and how they act in real life.

I think we all do that to a degree and it's pretty obvious that when you look at the worst-behaved people online that almost none of them could get through an actual life acting the way they do.

But still when you watch someone like PZ be a milksop in public and a tinpot dictator in his safe spaces, it's just really irritating even beyond the fact that he's a contemptible, smug, self-righteous dipshit.

Then you look at the surviving Horsemen whose public, professional, and online personas are all in sync and it's just refreshing.

That's a hard one to really call. Because what you see online isn't the whole person. Due to the fact that you have to actively choose what to put online, you're only seeing a specific, deliberately chosen subset of the person. So are they different, or just more? I mean, people are actually surprised that I'm not *just* who they see online, and they start telling me how i'm different or fronting, and I then have to disabuse them of that notion, because I'm not a completely different person IRL as opposed to online. It's just that IRL, you get more of the entire picture, including the casual, spontaneous stuff that doesn't get filtered between brain and keyboard.

That applies to really, everyone. Everyone on this forum, twitter, wherever is always making a deliberate choice in what they share, elevating some things, culling others.

What pisses me off about PZ is that barring specific setups, he won't criticize ANYONE directly. The Frogurt dude's a great example. PZ was RIGHT THERE. He could have, like someone eventually did, just walked in, and politely asked the guy "Yo, dude, what's up with the sign. Seems a little harsh." Not starting a fight, not raging, but just talking to the guy.

He did...nothing. Until he got back to Morris and then it was all Big Daddy Thundercock, eating lightning and shitting thunder and what a fucking badass, and FUCK HIM INTO THE GROUND.

PZ, and a lot of the FTBers do this over and over and over. They say nothing to anyone directly, but then when they feel safe over distance, then the knives come out.

That's not "there's more to PZ than his online writing", that's "PZ is just a fucking cowardly bully."

[welch]

The rest of the hard evidence is locked in Damion's box of tricks.

You know that KS went of the record with him? Perhaps she has given him real hard evidence.

Perhaps she gave him a pony and a Cleveland steamer. Given zero proof of any of it, all of it is possible.

If she has actual proof, then show it, and trump Radford with it. Show the evidence she claims to have that Radford did what she accuses him of, and watch my opinion of radford change accordingly. (To be fair, I'm not that impressed with him anyway. He's a lead character in why skepticism is still just a fringe movement. Yes, yes, fucking chupacabras. Maybe he should look at things that most people actually care about and start working to show how skepticism can help them in shit that matters.)

[AndrewV69]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/australia/au ... -speech-2/

(h/t Christina Sommers via twitter)

From the end of the essay by Mark Steyn:

...where we’re headed: a world where real, primal, universal rights — like freedom of expression — come a distant second to the new tribalism of identity-group rights.

Oh, don’t worry. There’ll still be plenty of ‘offending, insulting or humiliating’ in such a world, as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and the Mozilla CEO and Zionists and climate deniers and feminist ‘cis-women’ not quite au courant with transphobia can all tell you. And then comes the final, eerie silence. Young (name of student quoted in the essay) at Swarthmore College has grasped the essential idea: it is not merely that, as the Big Climate enforcers say, ‘the science is settled’, but so is everything else, from abortion to gay marriage. So what’s to talk about? Universities are no longer institutions of inquiry but ‘safe spaces’ where delicate flowers of diversity of race, sex, orientation, ‘gender fluidity’ and everything else except diversity of thought have to be protected from exposure to any unsafe ideas.

As it happens, the biggest ‘safe space’ on the planet is the Muslim world. For a millennium, Islamic scholars have insisted, as firmly as a climate scientist or an American sophomore, that there’s nothing to debate. And what happened? As the United Nations Human Development Programme’s famous 2002 report blandly noted, more books are translated in Spain in a single year than have been translated into Arabic in the last 1,000 years. Free speech and a dynamic, innovative society are intimately connected: a culture that can’t bear a dissenting word on race or religion or gender fluidity or carbon offsets is a society that will cease to innovate, and then stagnate, and then decline, very fast.

As American universities, British playwrights and Australian judges once understood, the ‘safe space’ is where cultures go to die.

Stagnation. It did not happen overnight. There are some opinions on how it came about.

First, to the best of my knowledge this is the standard view, that the defeat of the rationalist philoposy of Averroes (Ibn Rushd), by the dogmatic theology of Al-Ghazali is directly responsible for the current situation. In any event I find it difficult to envision the rise to prominence by someone like Avicenna (Ibn Sina) today.

Here is another opinion on the stagnation process:

Academics are correct in pinpointing the exact period in which Muslims began turning away from scientific innovation - the 11th century - but they have identified the wrong person. Abu Ali Al Hassan Al Tusi (1018-1092), better known as Nizam Al Mulk, the grand vizier of the Seljuq dynasty, was in fact the driving force.

Nizam Al Mulk had created a system of education known as "Nizamiyah" that focused on religious studies at the expense of independent inquiry. Not only did Nizamiyah colleges focus on religion but they also adopted a narrow Sunni interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence as the source of curricula: the Shafii school.

For the first time in Islamic history, religious studies became institutionalised - sciences and Islamic law were intertwined - and religious studies were seen as a more lucrative career path.

There is another opinion however, that it was a shift in trade, and a decline in outside influence and capital and how resources were redeployed as a result of it (you will not like some of the opinions of this fellow I am sure). In any event he repeats the standard view before launching his viewpoint here:

Here’s a video of George Saliba, a Professor of Arabic Studies at Columbia. According to Saliba, most historians, as well as Neil Degrasse Tyson, assume that the influence of anti-rational mystic Al-Ghazali (who refused to believe in cause-effect reasoning) in the 12th century and the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols in the 13th century were the primary causes behind the quick decline of medieval Islamic science. Saliba argues, however, that extant treatises prove the continuation of some level of Islamic scientific development until the 15th and 16th centuries (apparently, an observatory was even built just after the Mongol invasion). So, he posits that the best question to ask is not “what went wrong in Islam?” but “what went right in Europe?” Now, Saliba is clearly a Leftist, but I think he makes an interesting point nonetheless: he argues that the discovery of the New World in 1492 completely re-aligned the trade routes of the Old World. Prior to the Age of Discovery, trade routes went from West to East through the Islamic world, meaning that a lot of human and monetary capital flowed into the Middle East—and excess capital is vital for scientific development. Once the New World was discovered, trade routes shifted into Europe and out into the Atlantic, and capital began to flow through Europe precisely at the same time that religious control was becoming more fundamentalist in the Muslim world and more de-centralized in Europe. Saliba also discusses how Europeans were intelligent enough (my words, not his) to re-invest their new capital into scientific development, both in the New World and in the Old. Saliba, with his Leftist spin, implies that Europeans just stole discoveries made elsewhere, but even his spin can’t hide the fact that what Europe did right was to systematically fund science in order to aggregate, use, and develop the basic discoveries of Islamic science, which never had a practical, experimental edge. (What Saliba tries to do is similar to scholars who say that natives ‘discovered’ penicillin just because they knew fungus could heal wounds. In reality, it takes the funding, empiricism, and high-IQ culture of Western science to isolate and package penicillin.) Also, Saliba overstates the extent to which trade routes ceased running through the Middle East. The trans-Atlantic slave trade into Arab lands was as extensive as it was through Europe and the New World. Rather, Saliba’s contribution is to demonstrate that it’s not enough for a culture to make theoretical discoveries; they also need to have the incentives, the funding, and (as neoreactionaries know) the IQ to figure out how to put those discoveries to work toward practical, material ends.

[welch]

Secular Woman has posted an interview with Karen Stolznow [sic]:
http://www.secularwoman.org/interview_karen_stolznow

http://i.imgur.com/7luc3Ks.png?1

Two questions brushed upon the current issue.

SW: Do you feel you were treated differently in skepticism because you are a woman? If so, how? Any examples?

KS: As far as opportunities are concerned, my answer is no. However, I’ve had some unfortunate personal experiences as a woman in skepticism. Within the community I’ve encountered sexism, and have been the victim of sexual harassment and sexual assault. I think many men and women are aware of these problems within skepticism, if they haven’t been affected personally. Unfortunately, a minority of skeptics prefer to look the other way, reinterpret this behavior as flattery, or dismiss it with, “boys will be boys”. Some are even denialists, but these people are often the culprits. I’m hopeful these problems will disappear with a greater awareness of these issues, an inevitable changing of the guard, and as skepticism matures over time.


SW: What do you enjoy doing outside of skepticism?

KS: When I’m not cooped up in my office or writing in a coffee shop, I like to go walking, hiking, and to the gym or the beach (just not when living in Colorado, obviously). I enjoy traveling, art, music, cooking, and trying out exotic restaurants. I love reading about anything to do with language, history, and culture. Most of all, I adore spending every second I can with my husband, Matthew Baxter, who is also a skeptical paranormal investigator, which means there’s little I do outside of skepticism!
- See more at: http://www.secularwoman.org/interview_k ... XwIMy.dpuf

Bolding mine. That explains a lot. Look Dude, you can't have your entire life be about one thing. It's eventually unhealthy. Maybe do something and just not give a fuck. Every so often. Don't analyze everything. Just take some random shit at face value and move on. It's relaxing.

[Ape+lust]

Oh, look.

http://imgur.com/FaW02P5.png

(Shepard Smith's booker)

Nuh-uh. Not gonna happen. Shep smith is Teh Gay and probly hates #tranzies***@#! (#diecisgayscumtransmisogynist)

Haw! I was just thinking she'd never do Fox, but yeah, she's fanatical about being Jane Goodall to Oolon's crew of slackwits.

Sorry Shep, send a non-cis reporter with a healthy fear of dog penis and you might have a chance.

What's the stage after PTSD? Catatonia? That's where Melody's headed if she doesn't stay offline for a while. She's losing hard on Twitter right now.