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welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15601

Post by welch »

Dave wrote:So theres this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... udy-finds/

Followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how people take women less seriously than men, even if it's just a name.

Of course, it turns out to be bullshit: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... male-ones/
It also ignores how people deal with hurricanes. Having lived most of my life in an area where hurricane prep is real, the name is maybe a cause for jokes, but what everyone cares about, in order, are:

Category
Direction
Speed

If Hurricane Barbie is one of those nasty Cat 5 Cape Verde killers, it could literally be colored pink and leave a trail of glitter in her wake, it's a fucking Cat 5 hurricane, no one is going to treat it less seriously because of its name.

Walter Ego
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15602

Post by Walter Ego »

Skep tickle wrote: They might be thinking about the fact that there are several 'Pitters in the Seattle area.

They might possibly also be thinking about the last time PZ gave a talk in Seattle.

PZ might be remembering, for example, that one 'PItter who sat in the front row wearing a T-shirt that said "I support women's rights AND mens' rights". Who asked 2 questions during the Q&A (one of which challenged a "fact" he'd presented in the talk, the other of which got him ranting about how horrible, awful, & evil the people who disagree with him are). Who then came up to talk with him afterwards. And who then had the "balls" to show up at the dinner afterwards.

:) :D Hi, PZ! Hi, Ophelia! :D :)

For those who are interested, PZ's talk is on Thursday June 5th at:
Town Hall Seattle
1119 8th Ave
Seattle WA

Enter on Seneca St for the downstairs hall.

Doors open at 6:30pm for his 7:30pm talk. You probably don't have to get there very early for a front row seat.

Street parking is very limited, but there's a small parking lot to the west, and a great big parking garage at the Convention Center 2 blocks to the south.

Not sure how many people will be there. Town Hall's June/July calendar-mailing described it a little differently than that page where there are ~15 negative comments. (They didn't use his photo in the montage that borders the calendars...but they did use Peter Boghossian's, he's talking on Sat June 7 in same venue). The mailing gave this blurb about PZ's talk:
From the mind behind the popular science blog "Pharyngula" comes a new collection on life, creationism, and his no-holds barred criticisms of God. The Happy Atheist ridicules religious fundamentalists and explores their negative effects on society.
Maybe Mark Driscoll will show up. Wouldn't that be fun! After all, besides both growing up in South King County in blue collar families, they do have an area of interest in common. Driscoll's bio at that link says (in part): "With a skillful mix of bold presentation, accessible teaching, and compassion for those who are hurting the most—in particular, women who are victims of sexual and physical abuse and assault—Pastor Mark has taken biblical Christianity into cultural corners rarely explored by evangelicals."
Are you suggesting that people stalk, harass or otherwise confront PZ? I wouldn't cross the street to view, much less meet, that little toad. As a civic duty, I may notify the proper authorities just in case you're up to something nefarious here.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15603

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

yomomma wrote:I heard CNN's Melissa Harris Perry claim that 60% of ALL American women have been sexually assaulted, but where is this number coming from? Nowhere else in science or skepticism can you claim something based on your gut feelings and therefore it's automatically true. If that were the case, then the government concocted 911 and chemtrails are sending out mind altering and controlling substances over certain states in order to get the people to eat GMOs and make us compliant and the government has the cure for cancer but is keeping the cure a secret in order to boost the commercial medical industry.
Melissa Harris Perry is mental. It is known.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15604

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Tribble wrote: And, of course, they have it exactly backwards. Growing up without a proper male role-model in their single-parent, women-lead-home, tends to be the worst situation:
A survey of 108 rapists undertaken by Raymond A. Knight and Robert A. Prentky revealed the 60 percent came from female-headed homes,. 70 percent of those describable as 'violent' came from female-headed homes. 80 percent of those motivated by 'displaced anger' came from female-headed (single-parent) homes. "No-Fault Divorce: Proposed Solutions to a National Tragedy," 1993 Journal of Legal Studies 2, 19, citing R. Knight and R. Prentky, The Developmental Antecedents and Adult Adaptations of Rapist Subtypes, 14 CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND BEHAVIOR 403-426 (1987).

This is just one of many citations (studies) from the left and right that show rapists (and murders) come very disproportionally from female-lead, single-parent homes. If it's 'the Patriarchy,' women are doing a fucking bang-up job of passing it on, while men aren't...
These belie the feminist agitprop that Rape Culture is ubiquitous and poisons all men equally.

But discovering a correlation between single parent upbringing & rapist does not show causation. Another factor -- culture, socio-economic status, familial dysfunction, mental illness of the mother, etc. -- may cause both. Have any researchers put forth a model to explain how a single-mom household in & of itself leads to criminal behavior?

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15605

Post by Opyt »

Dave:
Welcome to planet click-bait, home of marketeers looking to push into the next wave (lulz, geddit? hurricanes ... waves ...) of advertisements.

Richard Dworkins:
"Fear-culture", absolutely, I'd stretch it into "phobia-culture" as it's irrational fear in most cases. That's what "rape culture" is at its heart, the irrational fear that every man will sexually assault a woman. And as it's been whipped into a frenzy, it then proceeds to deny "male rape survivors", as even the government agencies that handle it have fallen to the Feminist lobby in that "made to penetrate" was listed separately from "rape" by the CDC in their 2012 survey iirc, and the FBI has changed the definition of rape to be represented as "Involuntary insertion of objects and organs (fingers, penis, tongue) into orifices (anus, vagina, mouth)". The biggest problem with Feminism, as I see it, is that they will protest, to the point of verbal abuse and even so far as unlawful actions, to prevent MRAs/MHRM talks. Chanty Binx did a very good job of proving how toxic Feminism is to men, even though I believe that she didn't fully understand what she was doing.

Really?
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15606

Post by Really? »

I'm pretty annoyed with the JREF discussion of the latest conference problem. (The one at AACon where someone attempted to touch someone sexually in a place other than the genitals? Or whatever?)

I guess I'm most bothered that people throw "sexual assault" around so easily and don't describe what happened or what NEARLY happened, allowing people to understand the situation as it is.

Instead, nope. It was "calf rape" or whatever they want it to be called. If only the United States had some kind of system by which objective authorities could, upon being contacted, could come in and file fact-based reports of some kind. That way, everyone can argue from reality and shared definitions of words.

Maybe today feels like an "I give up" day.

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15607

Post by Opyt »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:These belie the feminist agitprop that Rape Culture is ubiquitous and poisons all men equally.

But discovering a correlation between single parent upbringing & rapist does not show causation. Another factor -- culture, socio-economic status, familial dysfunction, mental illness of the mother, etc. -- may cause both. Have any researchers put forth a model to explain how a single-mom household in & of itself leads to criminal behavior?
It would be fascinating to see the model. The running theory that I've heard, is that fathers typically set "more reasonable" goals, in that the single fathers will protect when possible but still encourage children to learn from their mistakes. While single mothers tend to take one of the two extremes, of the stereotypical "helicopter mommy" that's always there protecting their child from every little incident occurs, or the "negligent mother" that ignores the child. The negligent mother would be filed under emotionally abusive, while the "helicopter mommy" could lead to the children being unprepared for the larger world.

But that's just a theory. :think:

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15608

Post by Opyt »

Really? wrote:I'm pretty annoyed with the JREF discussion of the latest conference problem. (The one at AACon where someone attempted to touch someone sexually in a place other than the genitals? Or whatever?)

I guess I'm most bothered that people throw "sexual assault" around so easily and don't describe what happened or what NEARLY happened, allowing people to understand the situation as it is.

Instead, nope. It was "calf rape" or whatever they want it to be called. If only the United States had some kind of system by which objective authorities could, upon being contacted, could come in and file fact-based reports of some kind. That way, everyone can argue from reality and shared definitions of words.

Maybe today feels like an "I give up" day.
My vote is to hop on youtube, and look at things like "If I fits, I sits" or go watch TeamFourStar's DragonBall Z Abridged series. Mindless amusement for every occasion.

welch
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15609

Post by welch »

Opyt wrote:
Really? wrote:I'm pretty annoyed with the JREF discussion of the latest conference problem. (The one at AACon where someone attempted to touch someone sexually in a place other than the genitals? Or whatever?)

I guess I'm most bothered that people throw "sexual assault" around so easily and don't describe what happened or what NEARLY happened, allowing people to understand the situation as it is.

Instead, nope. It was "calf rape" or whatever they want it to be called. If only the United States had some kind of system by which objective authorities could, upon being contacted, could come in and file fact-based reports of some kind. That way, everyone can argue from reality and shared definitions of words.

Maybe today feels like an "I give up" day.
My vote is to hop on youtube, and look at things like "If I fits, I sits" or go watch TeamFourStar's DragonBall Z Abridged series. Mindless amusement for every occasion.
DBZ abridged is pretty damned awesome. As is Van Helsing Abridged.

Tribble
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15610

Post by Tribble »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Your life at Oxy is the time to try anything and everything—test your skill at improv or editing a literary magazine. Write your own Vagina Monologue, film a segment for CatAList, or blow off some steam on the rugby field.
:lol:
How about: Waste your money and get a worthless education that ill-prepares you for life as it leaves you 'over-educated' for the fast-food career for which you now otherwise qualify.

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15611

Post by Opyt »

welch wrote:DBZ abridged is pretty damned awesome. As is Van Helsing Abridged.
Yeah, it's a shame they weren't allowed to keep doing Attack on Titan Abridged. Silly company said (as was their right... I guess) that the TFS parody would not be allowed.

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15612

Post by Opyt »

Tribble wrote:How about: Waste your money and get a worthless education that ill-prepares you for life as it leaves you 'over-educated' for the fast-food career for which you now otherwise qualify.
They already have that. It's called a Gender Studies Degree.

Tribble
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15613

Post by Tribble »

Richard Dworkins wrote:My wife went on a massive rant last night. At her workplace, where there is a clique of about a dozen of the Victim Feminists (who she says are pissing off everyone, gay guys, the asian girls, single mothers, older women, heterosexual man-scum) wanted the company to raise awareness about misogyny in the workplace after Elliot Rodger's fatal stupidity. Despite being told this was a stupid idea by almost everyone, they went on a campaign claiming that by not acceding to their demands their workplace "hated women."

I said "there's the trap."

I had pointed out to her a while ago that no matter how much they malign, no matter how much they make an exhibition of themselves, the only tactic to deal with them was to tell them to fuck off, never give them an inch or pander to them in any way at all. That they run on pure emotion and will do anything and everything to get their own way.

This lead to a meeting with H.R. and Management, which my wife was involved in. With the exception of one middle aged man all of the staff involved agreed they were just taking the piss. The head of H.R. then pointed to their contracts and a staff meeting was held.

At that meeting, one of the Victim-Feminists, a young woman who is known by those outside her clique as "the blue bob blob" because of her hair and weight became the spokes-bint for her gang and started shouting the usual jargon at the higher management, threatening to get unions involved and start a social media campaign etc.

At that point the head of H.R. pointed to the contracts again which had clauses that stated that using the workplace as a forum for one's political beliefs was considered gross misconduct; attempting or allowing the company to be brought into disrepute was gross misconduct and use of any social media by any member of the company to discuss the company without permission was a sackable offence.

My wife said the blue bob bob went silent and her gang said nothing. The head of the department told them all the meeting was over and to get back to work. They moaned a bit, though quietly but it wasn't to last. My wife said that as soon as they all got back to their desks they started to reinforce each other again and got louder and more heated, that was until two security guards and the head of H.R. came over to where they all sat and removed the blue bob blob from the premises. Apparently she had been tweeting or facebooking her whines to try and attempt it to be a pseudo-cause and thus was fired.

The thing that made both my wife and I laugh was that as this was happening, not a single one of her group said or did anything to help her, or query what was going on apparently they didn'te even look at her. It came to light that one of the clique had actually informed her manager that the Blue bob blob had been tweeting.

As my wife so succinctly put it "That's why I don't trust the so called sisterhood."
Heh, heh. That's what happens when you try to bell the cat in his own lair.

Tribble
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15614

Post by Tribble »

John D wrote: This is no surprise to me. Poor women have fewer options for making money and finding security. Sexual exclusivity increases the power poor women have so they can better secure a male partner to help pay the bills etc. Wealthy men and woman tend to abandon the desire for sexual exclusivity with sexual experimentation becoming a greater desire.

I tend to doubt that slut shaming is a class issue where rich women are purposefully keeping poor women down through selectively judging based on wealth. I tend to think it is poor women who slut shame other poor women.
Why are you arguing with data? These were data-driven conclusions. Not feminist theory. Not class theory. Just 'this is what happened.' They were, from what I read, quite surprised about the results.

AndrewV69
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15615

Post by AndrewV69 »

As some of you are aware the AVfM organized International Conference on Men’s Issues Detroit – June 26-28 2014 had an unexpected issue resulting in additional security costs of around $24,000 demanded by the hotel.

Well, Obsidian over at Just 4 Guys reports that they successfully raised over $26,000 in around 24 hours (currently it is at $28,000)

Anyway, compare and contrast the coverage of the conferance by the
Detroit News, Detroit Free Press and the Raw Story. The comments in the latter are illustrative I suppose. Some appear to have a theory that MRAs are making up the threats so that they can gather donations.

I am mulling over the implications of that comment. What it says about the author of the comment etc. because quite frankly, I doubt it would have occurred to the AVfM people to think that one up.

(Note to myself : I think might at some point look into people like Joel Reinstein and Emma Howland-Bolton. Not sure what but something about those two has raised some red flags).

Tribble
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15616

Post by Tribble »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Holy crap! Ally Fogg just slammed feminists hard for their bullshit statistics!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2014 ... reactions/

And I ask, once again, WTF is he doing in that lunatic asylum? He's not 'pefect,' by any means. But he has a sense of decency, skepticism and rationality that is otherwise missing from that cluster-fuck of incompetency.

Dave
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15617

Post by Dave »

And now for something completely different: møøseogyny

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Moos ... 522352.php

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15618

Post by Opyt »

So, Dave, would that be
#YesAllMeese, #YesAllMooses, or #YesAllMoose?

The tragic tale of a moose and a classroom window.

John D
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15619

Post by John D »

Opyt wrote:
Tribble wrote:How about: Waste your money and get a worthless education that ill-prepares you for life as it leaves you 'over-educated' for the fast-food career for which you now otherwise qualify.
They already have that. It's called a Gender Studies Degree.
Haha. Yeah. So, my daughter graduated from High School Sunday. The two adult speakers where the Principal and the School Superintendent. There were also two student speakers. One student gave a humorous speech that thanked everyone as well as recounted some of her personal disasters. It was a good speech in my opinion. The other three however, were the tried and true "Go out and fix the world" type of speeches. The themes where all about making greater justice in the world. This is the goal students! The words "social justice" came up more than a few times. The speakers did stop short of blaming the white male patriarchy for everything, so that was good. Educators really do love to try to get students to feel like the world is a disaster and that only the young can fix it. Is it any wonder college kids can be so insufferably smug and self-righteous? Yeck.

Noticeably absent was any kind of discussion about how students can contribute by becoming good engineers, business people, or programmers. The good life is only defined by educators as a life devoted to serving others. While I agree that service is important, building a good career is more important. I am able to change the world because I can leverage my resources, not because I got a degree in Women's Studies.

To continue on my rambling post here, I just read that the number of people in abject poverty was 33% twenty years ago. This number is now half that bad, and stands at about 17%. Over the last twenty years poverty has drastically declined. Is this because of the social justice league? Is this because wealthy countries have donated wealth to the needy? No... this is due to the globalizing economy. Trade motherfucker...trade. So, while we all like to bitch about Walmart, it is part of the global system that is pushing wealth to the most needy. And.... the wealth is moving toward people who are growing their economy and knowledge. THANK YOU Walmart!

Had a moment of celebration. My daughter's boyfriend and I were complaining about the wacky English teachers we had to suffer through (yes... this topic has been on my mind). We enjoyed a great high five when I finally said... "Yeah... but we will make four times the money you will... bitches!"

and finally..... I got a text from same daughter's boyfriend. He had to take a Sociology class in college. He hated every minute of it. He texted me from class and wrote... "My prof just told us the wheel was invented by accident." I wrote him back and asked "How does she know... was she there?" To which he replied.... "Well... she does have a Masters Degree!" Much laughing from me.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15620

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

welch wrote:
Dave wrote:So theres this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... udy-finds/

Followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how people take women less seriously than men, even if it's just a name.

Of course, it turns out to be bullshit: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... male-ones/
It also ignores how people deal with hurricanes. Having lived most of my life in an area where hurricane prep is real, the name is maybe a cause for jokes, but what everyone cares about, in order, are:

Category
Direction
Speed

If Hurricane Barbie is one of those nasty Cat 5 Cape Verde killers, it could literally be colored pink and leave a trail of glitter in her wake, it's a fucking Cat 5 hurricane, no one is going to treat it less seriously because of its name.
Similarities between a woman and a hurricane?

They both come to you hot, warm and moist, then they leave with your house and your car.

:rimshot:

:bjarte:

Dave
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15621

Post by Dave »

welch wrote:
Dave wrote:So theres this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... udy-finds/

Followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how people take women less seriously than men, even if it's just a name.

Of course, it turns out to be bullshit: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... male-ones/
It also ignores how people deal with hurricanes. Having lived most of my life in an area where hurricane prep is real, the name is maybe a cause for jokes, but what everyone cares about, in order, are:

Category
Direction
Speed

If Hurricane Barbie is one of those nasty Cat 5 Cape Verde killers, it could literally be colored pink and leave a trail of glitter in her wake, it's a fucking Cat 5 hurricane, no one is going to treat it less seriously because of its name.
Well yeah, thats why my first thought was, "This is an Onion article isnt it?"

But on the surface, they had data to support their claims. Of course, it appears to depend primarily (a) poorer planning and preparedness for older storms when they were all given feminine names skewing the data and (b) reliance on Mechanical Turk users for the psych evaluations, not exactly a random sample.

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15622

Post by Opyt »

John D:
That reminds me of my high school graduation. Our Valedictorian wrote a long-winded 30 minutes speech. My grandma is a polite elderly woman, but by the three-quarters mark she wanted to shout "SHUT UP!". She didn't, but she still expresses that regret years later.

Yeah, "social justice" comes in two flavors, "Slacktivism" and "Karma". I just hope that all those Gender Studies degrees don't think they can ride the victim-circuit forever. They'll have to stop at some point I hope. And hopefully Detroit at the end of June will make them realize that maybe that major in Gender Studies was a bad plan.

Tribble
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15623

Post by Tribble »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Tribble wrote: And, of course, they have it exactly backwards. Growing up without a proper male role-model in their single-parent, women-lead-home, tends to be the worst situation:
A survey of 108 rapists undertaken by Raymond A. Knight and Robert A. Prentky revealed the 60 percent came from female-headed homes,. 70 percent of those describable as 'violent' came from female-headed homes. 80 percent of those motivated by 'displaced anger' came from female-headed (single-parent) homes. "No-Fault Divorce: Proposed Solutions to a National Tragedy," 1993 Journal of Legal Studies 2, 19, citing R. Knight and R. Prentky, The Developmental Antecedents and Adult Adaptations of Rapist Subtypes, 14 CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND BEHAVIOR 403-426 (1987).

This is just one of many citations (studies) from the left and right that show rapists (and murders) come very disproportionally from female-lead, single-parent homes. If it's 'the Patriarchy,' women are doing a fucking bang-up job of passing it on, while men aren't...
These belie the feminist agitprop that Rape Culture is ubiquitous and poisons all men equally.

But discovering a correlation between single parent upbringing & rapist does not show causation. Another factor -- culture, socio-economic status, familial dysfunction, mental illness of the mother, etc. -- may cause both. Have any researchers put forth a model to explain how a single-mom household in & of itself leads to criminal behavior?
First of all, all the other factors have been accounted for. I didn't cut-and-paste everything. I don't want to get terribly pedandic or come across as some woman hater. But the facts are, when you address all other factors, that's what's left. So unless you have a magic factor nobody has considered, your concerns have been addressed in these studies.

But to get beyond that, there are lots of models and they boil down to fathers have important roles in discipline and modeling appropriate behaviors (to girls and boys). In fact, here's a fairly concise summary of basic male/female differences in parenting written by a psychologist I once blogged back in old blogging days when I tried to be a 'somebody' blogger, rather than a blogging dilettante:
Fathers parent differently.

Fathering expert Dr. Kyle Pruett explains that fathers have a distinct style of communication and interaction with children. By eight weeks of age, infants can tell the difference between their mother’s and father’s interaction with them.

This diversity, in itself, provides children with a broader, richer experience of contrasting relational interactions. Whether they realize it or not, children are learning, by sheer experience, that men and women are different and have different ways of dealing with life, other adults and children. This understanding is critical for their development.

Fathers play differently.

Fathers tickle more, they wrestle, and they throw their children in the air (while mother says . . . "Not so high!"). Fathers chase their children, sometimes as playful, scary "monsters."

Fathering expert John Snarey (Dr. John Snarey, Franklin Nutting Parker Professor of Human Development and Ethics at Emory University) explains that children who roughhouse with their fathers learn that biting, kicking and other forms of physical violence are not acceptable. They learn self-control by being told when "enough is enough" and when to settle down. Girls and boys both learn a healthy balance between timidity and aggression.

Fathers build confidence.

Go to any playground and listen to the parents. Who is encouraging kids to swing or climb just a little higher, ride their bike just a little faster, throw just a little harder? Who is encouraging kids to be careful? Mothers protect and dads encourage kids to push the limits.

Either of these parenting styles by themselves can be unhealthy. One can tend toward encouraging risk without consideration of consequences. The other tends to avoid risk, which can fail to build independence and confidence. Together, they help children remain safe while expanding their experiences and increasing their confidence.

Fathers communicate differently.


A major study showed that when speaking to children, mothers and fathers are different. Mothers will simplify their words and speak on the child's level. Men are not as inclined to modify their language for the child. The mother's way facilitates immediate communication; the father's way challenges the child to expand her vocabulary and linguistic skills — an important building block of academic success.

Fathers discipline differently.

Educational psychologist Carol Gilligan tells us that fathers stress justice, fairness and duty (based on rules), while mothers stress sympathy, care and help (based on relationships). Fathers tend to observe and enforce rules systematically and sternly, teaching children the consequences of right and wrong. Mothers tend toward grace and sympathy, providing a sense of hopefulness. Again, either of these disciplinary approaches by themselves is not good, but together, they create a healthy, proper balance.

Fathers prepare children for the real world.

Involved dads help children see that attitudes and behaviors have consequences. For instance, fathers are more likely than mothers to tell their children that if they are not nice to others, kids will not want to play with them. Or, if they don't do well in school, they will not get into a good college or secure a desirable job. Fathers help children prepare for the reality and harshness of the world.

Fathers provide a look at the world of men.

Men and women are different. They eat differently. They dress differently. They cope with life differently. Girls and boys who grow up with a father are more familiar and secure with the curious world of men.

Girls with involved, married fathers are more likely to have healthier relationships with the opposite sex because they learn from their fathers how proper men act toward women. They know which behaviors are inappropriate. They also have a healthy familiarity with the world of men — they don't wonder how a man's facial stubble feels or what it's like to be hugged by strong arms. This knowledge builds emotional security and safety from the exploitation of predatory males.

Boys who grow up with dads are less likely to be violent. They have their masculinity affirmed and learn from their fathers how to channel their masculinity and strength in positive ways. Fathers help sons understand proper male sexuality, hygiene and behavior in age-appropriate ways. As noted sociologist David Popenoe explains, "Fathers are far more than just 'second adults' in the home. Involved fathers — especially biological fathers — bring positive benefits to their children that no other person is as likely to bring.
I read that and I see my parents. I see my Uncles and Aunts. I see myself and my wife. I see my brother and his wife. I see most of my cousins (bun not all of them and those that failed to two-parent their kids... Their kids really suck and are little hoodlums) and every successful parenting couple I know.

So I tend to think what he's saying, as an expert in the field, isn't based on bullshit social-theories, but on actual facts.

Anyway, whether any of us like it or not, when they account for everything, the feminist 'truth' of female single-parenting (with males being useless, toxic, rape-culture enablers) is bullshit. Men, far more than women, teach their sons not to be rapists and to teach their daughters to not be victims of 'bad boyfriends.'

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15624

Post by Opyt »

Tribble:
Intent isn't magic as "those people" say, but that sounds a lot like what I responded with, only not so verbose, and very much oversimplified to a fault. I also think I might have shaded over the opposite spectrum of the negligent parents by listing them as "negligent mothers"; when that shows up on both sides of the gender line.

Really?
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15625

Post by Really? »

John D wrote: and finally..... I got a text from same daughter's boyfriend. He had to take a Sociology class in college. He hated every minute of it. He texted me from class and wrote... "My prof just told us the wheel was invented by accident." I wrote him back and asked "How does she know... was she there?" To which he replied.... "Well... she does have a Masters Degree!" Much laughing from me.
Hahahahaha...money equal happiness!

The world could EASILY get by without all of the stupid assholes who take lower-paying jobs than the brilliant financial minds who figure out new ways to fuck everyone else out of their moneyLOLOLOL

John D
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15626

Post by John D »

Tribble wrote:
Anyway, whether any of us like it or not, when they account for everything, the feminist 'truth' of female single-parenting (with males being useless, toxic, rape-culture enablers) is bullshit. Men, far more than women, teach their sons not to be rapists and to teach their daughters to not be victims of 'bad boyfriends.'
Are there many feminists who really dismiss the role of the father entirely? I am sure the most radical ones, the ones who want to sterilize men, they probably don't see any value in fathers. But, that is really the problem with the word "feminism". It is pretty much broken since there is so much variation in the ranks. I am guessing very few feminists dismiss fathers outright, but I could be wrong.

Another story. I am chatty this afternoon....

One of the moms in my wife's Bunco group (Bunco is a simple dice game), was complaining about her son getting bullied. We all agreed that this was a bad thing. She said she was going to move him to a different school. She related the story that there are kids in his class who keep taking his things. Every day someone takes his pencil. They treat him very poorly.

My suggestion was that he figure out who has his pencil and sock him in the head. She was shocked I would suggest this. Then she said... "Well, he doesn't know who it is." I replied that he should just take his best guess at who did it. He should announce loudly that people should stop taking his shit.... go to the kid who he thinks did it... and clobber him. She should prepare him for the fact that he may get socked back and that he may get suspended. But really, who cares if a forth grader gets suspended?

Of course, my advice was not heeded. Another poor boy trapped between bullies and and over-protective mother. I am not sure how the whole thing came out because I was afraid to bring it up again. I suspect the solution included that he be more protective of his things... which just leads to more fear.

I was a little guy in school and people did try to bully me. I was at least mean enough to fight back. Most of the time that is all it takes. My mom would NEVER condone violence, but my dad, who fought in WWII, had a better advice about these things.

My best "fight" was when a big Italian kid pushed me out of the four-square line in 9th grade. I push him back. He pushed me. I pushed him. Then, he clobbered me. He punched me right across my right eye. I saw stars and fell flat on my back. The result was actually quite good. He got suspended and he broke his thumb on my head. He punched me with his thumb tucked into his fist... haha. He had a cast for two months. I was unhurt. His brother threatened me later and said he would beat the shit out of me. I said "Yeah... you probably could, except you would break your thumb like your brother!" He never did try to beat me up. Haha. Middle school was a bit tricky.

Just a hunch... but if you want to predict the kid who will get bullied, they might have a strong helicopter mother and a passive father.

John D
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15627

Post by John D »

Really? wrote:
John D wrote: and finally..... I got a text from same daughter's boyfriend. He had to take a Sociology class in college. He hated every minute of it. He texted me from class and wrote... "My prof just told us the wheel was invented by accident." I wrote him back and asked "How does she know... was she there?" To which he replied.... "Well... she does have a Masters Degree!" Much laughing from me.
Hahahahaha...money equal happiness!

The world could EASILY get by without all of the stupid assholes who take lower-paying jobs than the brilliant financial minds who figure out new ways to fuck everyone else out of their moneyLOLOLOL
I am pretty fucking happy!

AndrewV69
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15628

Post by AndrewV69 »

In other news:

According to Judgy Bitch no one at the Hilton Hotels actually reported any threats to the police.

This is interesting. I am pretty sure that every stuporvisory post I ever held that is the first thing I would have done. So, someone is telling porkie pies?

Lapsang Souchong
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15629

Post by Lapsang Souchong »

acathode wrote:When you're seeing patriarchy in the size of boxes for wii-motes, you've officially reached the same stage as these Christians:
[youtube]Bf0M1G1At28[/youtube]
I remember that from back in the day. Paul, and the paint encrusted, Jan Crouch of TBN fame. I wonder what sorts of satanic messages one can hear if you play Christian music in reverse?

Walter Ego
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15630

Post by Walter Ego »

Really? wrote:I'm pretty annoyed with the JREF discussion of the latest conference problem.
I've been posting again there recently after haven given up on that group about a year and a half ago. One never knows for sure who's lurking behind the screen names of course but my impression is that JREF has a large number of old white male farts (aka humanists) on their roster and we all know what a pain in the butt those old fools can be.

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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15631

Post by Tapir »

AndrewV69 wrote:In other news:

According to Judgy Bitch no one at the Hilton Hotels actually reported any threats to the police.

This is interesting. I am pretty sure that every stuporvisory post I ever held that is the first thing I would have done. So, someone is telling porkie pies?
This reminds me of how dubious is PZ's un-named rape victim's account.

If I remember correctly the rape was reported to the conference organisers who at the very fucking least (and if only out of some Machiavellian sense of self-preservation) would have called the police. But they did absolutely fuck all?

Nah....someone's not telling the whole story.

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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15632

Post by James Caruthers »

Richard Dworkins wrote:Dworkin's wife owns Jabba the Blue.
So your company gave them nothing and... It worked!

:dance: :clap: :dance:

If your company have caved and given them ANYTHING, your wife would be in a fresh circle of hell right now and the SJWs would be bleating all the louder for complete marxist takeover of the company or whatever they ultimately want.

I really hate to be mean to people in real life (no really), but I don't see any other way to respond to these pretend victim bullies. If you don't tell them to sit and spin, they'll keep demanding shit and demanding shit until they run the place and sink that workplace (like so many other SJW safe spaces) into a toxic death spiral from which no productivity can emerge.


Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15634

Post by Opyt »

AndrewV69 wrote:In other news:

According to Judgy Bitch no one at the Hilton Hotels actually reported any threats to the police.

This is interesting. I am pretty sure that every stuporvisory post I ever held that is the first thing I would have done. So, someone is telling porkie pies?
Dean Esmay on their Weekly IR (Skipped Memorial Day, the bums!) was saying that Hilton requested off-duty officers. This might just be SOP for Detroit, MI. Or it could be stuporvising.

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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15635

Post by welch »

Dave wrote:
welch wrote:
Dave wrote:So theres this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/cap ... udy-finds/

Followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how people take women less seriously than men, even if it's just a name.

Of course, it turns out to be bullshit: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com ... male-ones/
It also ignores how people deal with hurricanes. Having lived most of my life in an area where hurricane prep is real, the name is maybe a cause for jokes, but what everyone cares about, in order, are:

Category
Direction
Speed

If Hurricane Barbie is one of those nasty Cat 5 Cape Verde killers, it could literally be colored pink and leave a trail of glitter in her wake, it's a fucking Cat 5 hurricane, no one is going to treat it less seriously because of its name.
Well yeah, thats why my first thought was, "This is an Onion article isnt it?"

But on the surface, they had data to support their claims. Of course, it appears to depend primarily (a) poorer planning and preparedness for older storms when they were all given feminine names skewing the data and (b) reliance on Mechanical Turk users for the psych evaluations, not exactly a random sample.
The data is valid, it's just useless because either the people doing the survey have no clue about hurricanes, or they don't care and wanted to make a point. They made some really unrealistic assumptions like asking people to categorize the hurricane based solely on its name.

No one does that in the real world. The name is literally just a way to identify storm a from storm b and so on. What you care about are things like intensity, size and track. If it's a cat 5, but the track isn't going to carry it anywhere even vaguely near you, you don't give a fuck. Not because of the name, but because it is of zero threat.

When andrew made that left turn not at albequerque, I was on my honeymoon. It had been a great day, and so we're thinking about going fishing in the morning. I turn on the TV to the weather channel and say "What we're doing is packing our shit and getting home *now*" because a Cat 4/5 hurricane was headed directly at us.

They created a survey that is not even vaguely based in reality and surprise, got results that are statistically valid, but complete bullshit.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Contact:

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15636

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Since hurricanes have been named primarily with female names until not so long ago, the data are screwed.

Richard Dworkins
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15637

Post by Richard Dworkins »

James Caruthers wrote:
Richard Dworkins wrote:Dworkin's wife owns Jabba the Blue.
So your company gave them nothing and... It worked!

:dance: :clap: :dance:

If your company have caved and given them ANYTHING, your wife would be in a fresh circle of hell right now and the SJWs would be bleating all the louder for complete marxist takeover of the company or whatever they ultimately want.

I really hate to be mean to people in real life (no really), but I don't see any other way to respond to these pretend victim bullies. If you don't tell them to sit and spin, they'll keep demanding shit and demanding shit until they run the place and sink that workplace (like so many other SJW safe spaces) into a toxic death spiral from which no productivity can emerge.
Wouldn't be my company James. I work in the public sector, my wife works for a finance company. In my work I bang heads with 2nd wave feminists, many of whom are a pain in the arse but many more of whom are fine people who cannot get their heads around all this crap. I will say one thing, most of the pain in the arse lot are women who got degrees in the 70's and swanned into the sector as managers without ever getting their hands dirty. They belong to the kind of airy-fairy domain of "what if?" and are treated with utter disdain by the angry lefty ratbags (I'm using that affectionately btw) who've worked their way through some of the worst things humans can emotionally endure.

This is why the victim-feminists annoy me so much. They seem so cosseted, so privileged and entitled. They've read a few books and see oppression everywhere, like conspiracy theorists. I could not imagine how they could possibly cope with some of the real everyday horrors the women I work with experienced,a baby with cerebal palsy dumped in a waste bin, some lunatic who used her year old daughter as an actual dartboard and a whole catalogue of other, much worse grotesque tales. I am under no illusion that our problems are gender based and no matter how much the left might be an utter embarrassment to me currently, I still see these things are the ramifications of our ingrained class system.

AndrewV69
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15638

Post by AndrewV69 »

OK ... now he has done it:

Richard Dworkins
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15639

Post by Richard Dworkins »

Hmmm. This humoured me.
Nicholas Kristof’s collected work on sex trafficking constitutes a masturbatory text, allowing do-gooders everywhere to stroke and erect their unspoken desires about rescuing sad, tormented women. There’s a pornographic impulse at its heart, a sexual fantasy about dark-skinned women and children being raped by sexual predators on the dirt floors of basements, until the white saviour smashes the door down to save them.
And it’s about time we started to openly question whether Kristof isn’t in fact actually projecting some of his own sexual fantasies onto helpless women across the world; little else helps to explain his excessive desire to probe, every pun intended, into the intimate details of his subjects’ lives, turning dark masses of women into the objects of his and an avaricious audience’s gaze.
Sounds like someone might be projecting some fantasies of her own.

John D
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15640

Post by John D »

Richard Dworkins wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:
Richard Dworkins wrote:Dworkin's wife owns Jabba the Blue.
So your company gave them nothing and... It worked!

:dance: :clap: :dance:

If your company have caved and given them ANYTHING, your wife would be in a fresh circle of hell right now and the SJWs would be bleating all the louder for complete marxist takeover of the company or whatever they ultimately want.

I really hate to be mean to people in real life (no really), but I don't see any other way to respond to these pretend victim bullies. If you don't tell them to sit and spin, they'll keep demanding shit and demanding shit until they run the place and sink that workplace (like so many other SJW safe spaces) into a toxic death spiral from which no productivity can emerge.
Wouldn't be my company James. I work in the public sector, my wife works for a finance company. In my work I bang heads with 2nd wave feminists, many of whom are a pain in the arse but many more of whom are fine people who cannot get their heads around all this crap. I will say one thing, most of the pain in the arse lot are women who got degrees in the 70's and swanned into the sector as managers without ever getting their hands dirty. They belong to the kind of airy-fairy domain of "what if?" and are treated with utter disdain by the angry lefty ratbags (I'm using that affectionately btw) who've worked their way through some of the worst things humans can emotionally endure.

This is why the victim-feminists annoy me so much. They seem so cosseted, so privileged and entitled. They've read a few books and see oppression everywhere, like conspiracy theorists. I could not imagine how they could possibly cope with some of the real everyday horrors the women I work with experienced,a baby with cerebal palsy dumped in a waste bin, some lunatic who used her year old daughter as an actual dartboard and a whole catalogue of other, much worse grotesque tales. I am under no illusion that our problems are gender based and no matter how much the left might be an utter embarrassment to me currently, I still see these things are the ramifications of our ingrained class system.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

piginthecity
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15641

Post by piginthecity »

It's vintage Canuck.

TL;DR I can't really get anyone to take the 'sexual assault' allegation seriously because it's clearly made-up/exaggerated and I can't directly claim that libertarianism is such an evil idea that anybody who event contemplates it must be an evil person and shunned, because it's just an idea and I've got to pretend that I can handle ideas and treat them skeptically and all that. So you're going to read this massive wall of text written by me who's cleverer than you, and, poors sap that you are, you'll come away with the impression that some sort of combination of faked assault allegation and libertarianism means that Sharmer is a bad bad person and also that there's definitely a link between libertarianism and sexual assault because my wall of text assumes there is one even though I've not presented any evidence for it.

John D
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Location: Detroit, MI. USA

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15642

Post by John D »

Nicholas Kristof’s collected work on sex trafficking constitutes a masturbatory text, allowing do-gooders everywhere to stroke and erect their unspoken desires about rescuing sad, tormented women. There’s a pornographic impulse at its heart, a sexual fantasy about dark-skinned women and children being raped by sexual predators on the dirt floors of basements, until the white saviour smashes the door down to save them.
Sounds like someone might be projecting some fantasies of her own.
I blame it all on that one episode of "Lost In Space" that I saw when I was just a kid....
Penny-Robinson-Lost-in-Space.jpg
(77.07 KiB) Downloaded 225 times

Guestus Aurelius
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15643

Post by Guestus Aurelius »

piginthecity wrote:
It's vintage Canuck.

TL;DR I can't really get anyone to take the 'sexual assault' allegation seriously because it's clearly made-up/exaggerated and I can't directly claim that libertarianism is such an evil idea that anybody who event contemplates it must be an evil person and shunned, because it's just an idea and I've got to pretend that I can handle ideas and treat them skeptically and all that. So you're going to read this massive wall of text written by me who's cleverer than you, and, poors sap that you are, you'll come away with the impression that some sort of combination of faked assault allegation and libertarianism means that Sharmer is a bad bad person and also that there's definitely a link between libertarianism and sexual assault because my wall of text assumes there is one even though I've not presented any evidence for it.
Nope.

Lapsang Souchong
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15644

Post by Lapsang Souchong »

John D wrote:
Nicholas Kristof’s collected work on sex trafficking constitutes a masturbatory text, allowing do-gooders everywhere to stroke and erect their unspoken desires about rescuing sad, tormented women. There’s a pornographic impulse at its heart, a sexual fantasy about dark-skinned women and children being raped by sexual predators on the dirt floors of basements, until the white saviour smashes the door down to save them.
Sounds like someone might be projecting some fantasies of her own.
I blame it all on that one episode of "Lost In Space" that I saw when I was just a kid....
Penny-Robinson-Lost-in-Space.jpg
I blame everything on when I was a kid.

AndrewV69
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15645

Post by AndrewV69 »

Over at the Spearhead Price has a few thoughts:
I took a look at the letter the hotel sent to Paul, and quite frankly it screamed bullshit. I don’t believe anyone threatened the staff and other guests, for starters, and I don’t even think there were any credible threats at all. Honestly, the hotel’s letter had the same tone one sees in those 419 scams. In my opinion, it was just the good old Detroit PD’s extortion racket plus in all likelihood a kickback to the hotel manager. Do I think a feminist called the hotel? Probably. I’m sure someone even said nasty things about AVfM. And it is always possible one of those street junkie Marxists made a threat by phone. But if the latter had happened, then where’s the police report? Surely, if AVfM is required to cough up $25k, then there must be some corroborating, official evidence, even if it has been manufactured out of whole cloth. I mean, did the police or the hotel even bother to check the phone logs?
Follow the link fuckers. You know by now I quotemine.

Southern
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15646

Post by Southern »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:We're watching the new GoT episode later tonight. Don't spoil it please, but: somebody dies?!?
From what I get from the series (I don't watch it), it would be a spoiler to say: "in this episode, nobody dies!".

AndrewV69
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15647

Post by AndrewV69 »

#childism.jpg
(60.75 KiB) Downloaded 205 times

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15648

Post by Opyt »

Wow, that guy deserves a retweet.

Southern
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Location: Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15649

Post by Southern »

Really? wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
So reagieren sie auf Steinwuerfe in der <a href="http://www.kleinkreditde.de">kleinkredit</a> ljgmuaiyti kleinkredit kleinkredit http://www.kleinkreditde.de fuer sehr fein gehalten, wenn er beim Essen recht stark schmatzt.
Halt die Klappe und verpiss dich.
PZ wünscht sich, er könnte mit Beckybooze "under der linden" gehen. Tandaradei!
Ach nich und judën, ach!

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15650

Post by Opyt »


Apples
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15651

Post by Apples »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Similarities between a woman and a hurricane?

They both come to you hot, warm and moist, then they leave with your house and your car.

:rimshot:

:bjarte:
Well done! :clap:

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15652

Post by Opyt »

Apples wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Similarities between a woman and a hurricane?

They both come to you hot, warm and moist, then they leave with your house and your car.

:rimshot:

:bjarte:
Well done! :clap:
Motion seconded. :clap: :clap:

Apples
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15653

Post by Apples »

Dick Strawkins wrote:An interesting study has just been reported on by al jazeera america:

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2 ... study.html

It's based on the following book: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php? ... 0674049574
Sociologists from the University of Michigan and the University of California at Merced occupied a dorm room in a large Midwestern university, regularly interacting with and interviewing 53 women about their attitudes on school, friends, partying and sexuality from the time they moved in as freshman and following up for the next five years.
Nice work if you can get it.

Southern
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Location: Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15654

Post by Southern »

welch wrote:
Opyt wrote:
Really? wrote:I'm pretty annoyed with the JREF discussion of the latest conference problem. (The one at AACon where someone attempted to touch someone sexually in a place other than the genitals? Or whatever?)

I guess I'm most bothered that people throw "sexual assault" around so easily and don't describe what happened or what NEARLY happened, allowing people to understand the situation as it is.

Instead, nope. It was "calf rape" or whatever they want it to be called. If only the United States had some kind of system by which objective authorities could, upon being contacted, could come in and file fact-based reports of some kind. That way, everyone can argue from reality and shared definitions of words.

Maybe today feels like an "I give up" day.
My vote is to hop on youtube, and look at things like "If I fits, I sits" or go watch TeamFourStar's DragonBall Z Abridged series. Mindless amusement for every occasion.
DBZ abridged is pretty damned awesome. As is Van Helsing Abridged.
DBZ Abridge is RAEP CULTURE!

[youtube]dGJBsUBOJ10[/youtube]

You MRA Eliot Rodgers cis scum patriarchists.

Opyt
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15655

Post by Opyt »

Southern wrote:DBZ Abridge is RAEP CULTURE!

[youtube]dGJBsUBOJ10[/youtube]

You MRA Eliot Rodgers cis scum patriarchists.
And here I thought you'd go for the low hanging fruit
[youtube]pcUbjSajNks[/youtube]

The best part: KaiserNeko, the voice of Zarbon is actually gay. :lol:

some guy
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15656

Post by some guy »

AndrewV69 wrote:
#childism.jpg
Freakin brilliant!

Brive1987
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15657

Post by Brive1987 »

Really? wrote:I'm pretty annoyed with the JREF discussion of the latest conference problem. (The one at AACon where someone attempted to touch someone sexually in a place other than the genitals? Or whatever?)

I guess I'm most bothered that people throw "sexual assault" around so easily and don't describe what happened or what NEARLY happened, allowing people to understand the situation as it is.

Instead, nope. It was "calf rape" or whatever they want it to be called. If only the United States had some kind of system by which objective authorities could, upon being contacted, could come in and file fact-based reports of some kind. That way, everyone can argue from reality and shared definitions of words.

Maybe today feels like an "I give up" day.
Don't give up - look we have an audience ....
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... tribution/

http://i.imgur.com/5FnXYeL.jpg

some guy
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Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:05 am

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15658

Post by some guy »

Jerry Coyne (in a post about the school prayer issue in Missouri), while urging folks to join the Freedom From Religion Foundation: "You can join here, and it’s only a paltry $40 a year. For that you get—besides the satisfaction of knowing that your money actually works for secularism instead of enabling a bunch of keyboard warriors—an awesome and meaty monthly newspaper that details the organization’s activities, cases, and also gives a lot of amusing quotes from religious people, as well as a selection of the FFRFs own hate mail, which is far nastier than mine."

Link: http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com ... intendent/

Brive1987
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Posts: 17791
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Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15659

Post by Brive1987 »

Pretty much sums up FtB for any newbies:

http://i.imgur.com/wJoaM0s.jpg

Skep tickle
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:04 am

Re: Y'all come back now, y'hear?

#15660

Post by Skep tickle »

some guy wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:
#childism.jpg
Freakin brilliant!
Seconded!

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