Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[BlueShiftRhino]

May I suggest Oct 14th as the day to buy the ad? Just a random Tuesday I pulled out of my butt ... that happens to be the same random Tuesday that Bill Nye gives his talk at UMinn Morris.

[Glen_Davidson]

...


I do. But reactive self-defense in doxxing or trying to get people fired isn't the right course of action. The best way, IMO, is simply point out the hypocrisy and not let it slide. This is the time for the MLK approach, not the Joe McCarthy approach. Shame them with your dignity and the facts in places they don't control.

Let them continue to act like the toxic shitlords they are. Show their hypocrisy.

You won't convert the 'true believers' but people will see the difference.

Good point. We've been doing this for a few years, now. I'm sure that the shame-and-point-out-hypocrisy approach will totally start to work at some point in 2017!

Whereas acting like a trollish-asshole in neutral areas has only made people cry 'a pox on both their houses.' Or, even worse, has been used by Myers, Watson, etc., as FUEL FOR THEIR "I'M A VICTIM" narrative that gets them into places like Salon, SciAm, etc. as 'poor souls being persecuted.' Professional victims know how to use attacks and twist them. And the truth so many of us have learned is that nothing of the 'attack like a bunch of assholes' has ever worked and has tended to strengthen Myers, et.al. through reinforcing their 'persecuted for the truth' message.


To make an analogy -- martial arts -- it's kind of like the difference between Shorin-Ryu and Akido. When I was a tournament fighter, hard-style guys (like Shotokan, Shorin-Ryu, etc.) were easy. Big, strong attacks I could block and counter-punch. But those Akido fuckers were really hard as they took my strong attacks and used them against me. So I had to learn to be patient, feint and get them to make mistakes. Else I'd lose.

That's what Myers does when you come on all gang-busters. He takes your attack, it doesn't harm him, he uses it against you. You look like a stupid troll. Game over, you've lost.

OTOH, Coyne pushes back. Brink it up on his blog. Nugent is pushing back. Bring it up on his blog. Find other blogs and decry the shitty behavior. Just shit on his reputation as a man who is more than happy to try to destroy the real-life work of a woman because she makes an off-color joke.

Over-time, he become a pariah and looses most, but never all, his audience and influence just like every other asshole moral crusader that steps over the line. But it's not a short game or one for people who can't delay gratification.

Another thing about largely "staying the course," and at least not getting bent out of shape: PZ's boring, they're boring. Even the broadbrush "harassers, misogynists, and rapists" was, I think, all-too predictable and meaningless to most of us Don't get me wrong, I can see how it would anger some (victims of rape, certainly), but for me and many (I'll wager) it just looks like a pathetic attempt at a smear from an a-hole losing it.

The boredom caused by these mindlessly self-righteous bozos is the greatest long-term danger to themselves. They will continue to be boring, anti-transgressive people seeking power and establishment of a new set of rules that they can force onto others whatever we do, but there's a danger of delaying their exhaustion from boredom by their opponents making them appear interesting.

Let them flail, mostly. I think it was good that Mykeru contacted UMM officials, since they should be getting tired of a boring old fool ranting in their name, and they may increasingly edge away from while curtailing what little they can. But there's not a lot to do that won't make them look more interesting, and perhaps "progressive martyrs," over the short run.

They aren't new, they aren't interesting, they aren't creative--their claims and critiques have been seen thousands of times before from grandiose "do-gooders" that even many other righteous lefties think are serving themselves more than others. Let them bang the drum in the names of the oppressed, while clearly drawing attention primarily to themselves. It gets old pretty quickly.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p

[Satan]

It was still incredibly classy - IMO - for her to apologize, anyway, especially given how hard that probably was to do. :clap:

It was incredibly cowardly - IMO - for her to apologize instead of seeking a restraining order against Skepchick and targeting their Twitter account.

Even if prior dealings would make getting a restraining order against Myers difficult, no such history exists with regard to Watson. Not taking that opportunity to damage Watson is a grave strategic error.

If Myers can't be damaged directly, then damage his support network.

[John D]

I will explain why fighting against the PZs, Watsons, A+ers, etc., matters.

1) For the most part, I am reasonably happy with the legal system and ethical decisions of most of my neighbors. This includes most Christians I know. Most people have a decent sense of justice in America in my opinion. ( can give many examples if you wish for me to go on)

2) My goal has always been to get my fellow Americans to just see that atheists are regular people. We are not perfect, but we are certainly not evil. If most people realized atheists are just regular folks I would be very happy.

3) The SJWs are trying to claim that ALL atheists are just like them. This is entirely false and it goes against my goals. My fellow Americans look at folks like Becci and PZ and they see closeted communists. And... you know what... they are correct. Becci and PZ are basically communists. They have their own religion. It does great harm when they are the ones getting invited to speak and conferences and get interview by the media. Their ideas are mostly toxic and wrong.

It is very important to my goals to discredit these lunatics.

I fight them too. But I don't do it by idiotic shit like counter-doxxing, trying to get people fired, etc. But by using facts and information as disinfectant. It works a LOT BETTER, in the long run, than being a raging asshole playing the same game the FTB clowns play.


Fight smart. Fight for the long-term gain, not the short-run 'gotcha.' It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Hey! The shit!

I already posted two days ago that I do two things and I do them always and consitently. I use my real name and identity when I do it.

1) I claim that PZ Myers, Rebecca, etc., are toxic and not good for skepticism and secularism

2) I tell people to never give them clicks which will eventually cause them to disappear. "No More Clicks!"

This is what I do.... but... I don't really care what others do. It took Malcolm X and MLK to make change.... and people quickly forget that Nelson Mandela condoned violence and was considered a terrorist. Just sayin.

I am enjoying the raging rage shit on the pit these days. Almost as entertaining as the Indiana cop smashing out the black doods window. "Get out the car boy!" "No! Cops be killin black folks!" SMASH! TAZE! (followed by a well deserved law suit) Also, Bristol Palin was punchin some dood in the head and he slammed her to the ground. There was blood and cops... haha... Merica is great... You Europeans and Aussies are fucking boring.

[Spike13]

I have to run out, I'll check in on my phone.

:D :lol:

If you need anything pm or e-mail.

[papillon]

Oggy, not Iggy. Fucking autocorrect.

Ah, I thought you meant Oggy Pip.

I loves me some Oggy Pip - The Pissenger being one of my favs.

[Mykeru]

I don't do it by idiotic shit like counter-doxxing, trying to get people fired, etc.

Good thing that no one was "counter-doxxed" or that no one is trying to get anyone fired. Right?

[katamari Damassi]

It was still incredibly classy - IMO - for her to apologize, anyway, especially given how hard that probably was to do. :clap:

Now we get to see if PZ follows his own advice in these matters.

I'm in the never apologize camp. It's not just because it's unwarranted and unappreciated, but it opens you up to accusations that you've admitted guilt and are liable for any perceived harm.

[James Caruthers]

I don't do it by idiotic shit like counter-doxxing, trying to get people fired, etc.

Good thing that no one was "counter-doxxed" or that no one is trying to get anyone fired. Right?

I'd just like to reiterate this.

This idea that ANYONE on the Pit was planning to dox PZ is pure bullshit. It seems to have been fabricated by those who do not approve of the methods of people like Mykeru and others who support IRL action.

Doxxing PZ would be something like revealing his personal telephone or home address.

NOBODY has suggested doing this.

It would be incredibly dishonest to continue suggesting that anyone on the "Mykeru/Brive/Sinister/etc" side is advocating doxxing.

Nor does anyone on this side want to see Peez fired, or plan to get him fired.

Unrelated: I echo the sentiment that it sucks if Skep's employers forced her to apologize, and that if she did it herself, it was a bad move and will only encourage them to harass and attack her further. But that's just my opinion and Skep is the one being harmed by this whole situation, so it's her call. I'm just saying that I've never seen an apology WORK with these fuckers.

[AndrewV69]

and the bullying continues with "favourites" and "retweets" - and I thought they all had blockbot!

I offered a little perspective:

[Pogsurf]

This is for Pogsurf (on MN's blog):

This is the transcript of the phone-call (courtesy of Carrie Poppy) that PZ made to the AMA.

AMA: Hello. AMA complaints division.

PZM: Hi. I'd like to file a complaint against [redacted].

AMA: OK. Is [redacted] your physician?

PZM: No, she's a troll.

AMA: Ooooo-kaaay. And you're being treated by this ... um ... troll?

PZM: No, no, you don't get it. She's not a real troll; she's an internet troll. But she's also a doctor.

AMA: OK, so she is your physician.

PZM: Yes ... no ... I mean: she's a doctor, but not mine. But she diagnosed me on the internet.

AMA: Oh, you went to one of those Internet MD sites? Those aren't certified by the AMA. Most are in India, anyway. I can't really help.

PZM: No, no! She's an American doctor. She just diagnosed me based on stuff that I'd posted on my blog.

AMA: Oh. OK. And she did this as a practicing physician?

PZM: Yes! Exactly! [pause] Well, not exactly, really, but we know that she's a doctor eye-are-ell.

AMA: I'm sorry. Eye-are-ell?

PZM: In real life.

AMA: Ah, OK. So what's the problem?

PZM: Her diagnosis was wrong.

AMA: Well, as you know, all diagnoses are a best guess, based on what is known. [pause] How was her diagnosis incorrect?

PZM: She said that I had the clap. I didn't.

AMA: Well, that's a difficult diagnosis to make without blood-work. On what basis did she do this?

PZM: Because of a pain in my knee.

AMA: Well, that is one of the symptoms. Anything else?

PZM: That I'd been to a conference.

AMA: Well, again, until some people started agitating and took the fun out of conferences ... you'd be surprised.

PZM: But she posted about it! She said I had the clap! My students and trophy ... um, wife might see it!

AMA: Ah. Now I understand your concern. When did she, um, post about this.

PZM: Back when it happened.

AMA: Which was when?

PZM: Quite a while ago.

AMA: ... but you're complaining now.

PZM: Yes. Because someone linked to it.

AMA: Linked?

PZM: Posted a blog about me and included a link to the diagnosis.

AMA: ... the diagnosis that [redacted] had made as your doctor?

PZM: She's not my fucking doctor! She's a 'Pitter! A troll!

AMA: Please, sir. Language. [pause] A 'Pitter?

PZM: A SlymePitter. They're misogynist shitlords.

AMA: Please. Really, sir.

PZM: No. 'Shitlords' is what they call themselves. It's some kind of badge of honor to them

AMA: ... but you allowed her to continue as your doctor, anyway?

PZM: She was never my fucking ... sorry, not fucking doctor!

AMA: Then I don't see the issue.

PZM: She made it seem like I'd gotten the clap at a conference!

AMA: ... because you returned from a conference with the symptoms of gonorrhea.

PZM: Only some of them! And it wasn't the clap. I can prove it, too.

AMA: OK. But did [redacted] actually say that you had gonorrhea or only that you had symptoms consistent with gonorrhea?

PZM: She said that I had it! [pause] Well, not explicitly. But it was clear what she meant.

AMA: ... and this all happened a while ago, but you're bringing it to our attention now because someone made a blog-post about it.

PZM: That and a whole bunch of other stuff.

AMA: Also from [redacted]?

PZM: No. Other stuff. The mermaids. The hentai. The doxxing. All there reguly bullshit.

AMA: Please...

PZM: Sorry. It just pisses me off. I'm the Fifth Horseman, you know. And zebrafish ... that was my idea, too. Why do this do this?

AMA: [silence] Do I even want to know about the mermaids, hentai, doxxing - whatever that is - and other four Horsemen ... ?

PZM: Three.

AMA: I'm sorry?

PZM: Three other Horsemen.

AMA: Ah. I must have misheard. I thought you said that you were the fifth.

PZM: I am, but one of them died.

AMA: I'm so sorry. [pause] Was [redacted] his or her doctor, too?

[dial tone]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Fucking brilliant!

Thanks!

I read somewhere that he filters most of his e-mail, but he reads all the snail-mail he gets sent. I'm going to pop out now to get him a 'get well soon' card. It will be worth the postage.

NB: Please use the 'clap' icon ==> :clap: if replying.

[Mykeru]

Just keeping it classy.

[katamari Damassi]

I'm off to the mountains. Se you sunday evening.

Footage of Phil has arrived, showing him celebrate his new found health and freedom. :mrgreen:

http://i.imgur.com/X7dleqM.gif

LOL
I have nothing to add. I just want to see this gif on every page.

[Mykeru]

I'm off to the mountains. Se you sunday evening.

Footage of Phil has arrived, showing him celebrate his new found health and freedom. :mrgreen:

http://i.imgur.com/X7dleqM.gif

LOL
I have nothing to add. I just want to see this gif on every page.

The mystery of how Phil so consistently sticks the landing finally explained.

His head is pointy.

[Badger3k]

That's all going too far. I'm sure all those people are already aware of Myers' bullshit, and they can choose for themselves to what extent they want to get involved. Asking them to publicly denounce someone seems pointless. Also, it's like the sort of thing that the ftb'ers do - an out of proportion beseeching to their cause or something like that.

#vaculamustdenounce anyone?

[sinister]

This is for Pogsurf (on MN's blog):

This is the transcript of the phone-call (courtesy of Carrie Poppy) that PZ made to the AMA.

AMA: Hello. AMA complaints division.

PZM: Hi. I'd like to file a complaint against [redacted].

AMA: OK. Is [redacted] your physician?

PZM: No, she's a troll.

AMA: Ooooo-kaaay. And you're being treated by this ... um ... troll?

PZM: No, no, you don't get it. She's not a real troll; she's an internet troll. But she's also a doctor.

AMA: OK, so she is your physician.

PZM: Yes ... no ... I mean: she's a doctor, but not mine. But she diagnosed me on the internet.

AMA: Oh, you went to one of those Internet MD sites? Those aren't certified by the AMA. Most are in India, anyway. I can't really help.

PZM: No, no! She's an American doctor. She just diagnosed me based on stuff that I'd posted on my blog.

AMA: Oh. OK. And she did this as a practicing physician?

PZM: Yes! Exactly! [pause] Well, not exactly, really, but we know that she's a doctor eye-are-ell.

AMA: I'm sorry. Eye-are-ell?

PZM: In real life.

AMA: Ah, OK. So what's the problem?

PZM: Her diagnosis was wrong.

AMA: Well, as you know, all diagnoses are a best guess, based on what is known. [pause] How was her diagnosis incorrect?

PZM: She said that I had the clap. I didn't.

AMA: Well, that's a difficult diagnosis to make without blood-work. On what basis did she do this?

PZM: Because of a pain in my knee.

AMA: Well, that is one of the symptoms. Anything else?

PZM: That I'd been to a conference.

AMA: Well, again, until some people started agitating and took the fun out of conferences ... you'd be surprised.

PZM: But she posted about it! She said I had the clap! My students and trophy ... um, wife might see it!

AMA: Ah. Now I understand your concern. When did she, um, post about this.

PZM: Back when it happened.

AMA: Which was when?

PZM: Quite a while ago.

AMA: ... but you're complaining now.

PZM: Yes. Because someone linked to it.

AMA: Linked?

PZM: Posted a blog about me and included a link to the diagnosis.

AMA: ... the diagnosis that [redacted] had made as your doctor?

PZM: She's not my fucking doctor! She's a 'Pitter! A troll!

AMA: Please, sir. Language. [pause] A 'Pitter?

PZM: A SlymePitter. They're misogynist shitlords.

AMA: Please. Really, sir.

PZM: No. 'Shitlords' is what they call themselves. It's some kind of badge of honor to them

AMA: ... but you allowed her to continue as your doctor, anyway?

PZM: She was never my fucking ... sorry, not fucking doctor!

AMA: Then I don't see the issue.

PZM: She made it seem like I'd gotten the clap at a conference!

AMA: ... because you returned from a conference with the symptoms of gonorrhea.

PZM: Only some of them! And it wasn't the clap. I can prove it, too.

AMA: OK. But did [redacted] actually say that you had gonorrhea or only that you had symptoms consistent with gonorrhea?

PZM: She said that I had it! [pause] Well, not explicitly. But it was clear what she meant.

AMA: ... and this all happened a while ago, but you're bringing it to our attention now because someone made a blog-post about it.

PZM: That and a whole bunch of other stuff.

AMA: Also from [redacted]?

PZM: No. Other stuff. The mermaids. The hentai. The doxxing. All there reguly bullshit.

AMA: Please...

PZM: Sorry. It just pisses me off. I'm the Fifth Horseman, you know. And zebrafish ... that was my idea, too. Why do this do this?

AMA: [silence] Do I even want to know about the mermaids, hentai, doxxing - whatever that is - and other four Horsemen ... ?

PZM: Three.

AMA: I'm sorry?

PZM: Three other Horsemen.

AMA: Ah. I must have misheard. I thought you said that you were the fifth.

PZM: I am, but one of them died.

AMA: I'm so sorry. [pause] Was [redacted] his or her doctor, too?

[dial tone]

That. That right there, is wonderful. :popcorn:

[Tony Parsehole]

I Wake Up And Prepare My First Meal Of The Day.
By Michael Nugent.

Hello. I'm Michael Nugent, Chairman of Atheist Ireland.
This morning I woke up at 07:01 on Friday the 10th of October 2014 from a sleep of 8 hours 13 minutes.
After leaving my bed, left leg first, I performed my daily ablutions in the bathroom I own, blah bjah

tl;dr. First rule of satire: don't be boring.

lol. Good thing I was satirising Nugent, eh?

[JacquesCuze]

It was still incredibly classy - IMO - for her to apologize, anyway, especially given how hard that probably was to do. :clap:

It was incredibly cowardly - IMO - for her to apologize instead of seeking a restraining order against Skepchick and targeting their Twitter account.

Even if prior dealings would make getting a restraining order against Myers difficult, no such history exists with regard to Watson. Not taking that opportunity to damage Watson is a grave strategic error.

If Myers can't be damaged directly, then damage his support network.

Not sure if serious, but assuming you are I feel compelled to say that apart from time and cost of obtaining a restraining order, abuse of restraining orders is still abuse and wastes court time and everyone's time. And it makes restraining orders even easier to abuse in the future.

[free thoughtpolice]

John D wrote:

Also, Bristol Palin was punchin some dood in the head and he slammed her to the ground. There was blood and cops... haha... Merica is great... You Europeans and Aussies are fucking boring.

I saw that in the news. :lol: Apparently Tod and Track got into the action too. If that makes it into the Alaskan Cops show I'll have to make a point of watching that episode.

[Really?]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

[Badger3k]

If she did indeed commited a gross breach of medical ethics, then yeah, sure. We know it's not the case because we provided the actual source and context while he just resorted to doxx and bitch about it.

It was still incredibly classy - IMO - for her to apologize, anyway, especially given how hard that probably was to do. :clap:

Now we get to see if PZ follows his own advice in these matters.

While it might be a bit hard to stomach, it is also smart. The onus is back on them. Do they accept that, or do they continue, making them look like even bigger assholes? We know what will probably happen, but for others who are just catching on to this...it can affect their support if they continue to harass. Maybe.

[Really?]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

Sorry; could have combined posts. Here's the Morris North Star Facebook page. Could someone who isn't afraid to use their IRL name ask if they do ads?

https://www.facebook.com/morrisnorthstar

They certainly have a "Donate" button:

http://morrisnorthstar.com/?page_id=22

Check out page 11 of their latest archived issue. They do ads.

http://morrisnorthstar.com/wp-content/u ... 4/v2i6.pdf

Would placing an ad be an activity that would agree with the vast majority of the 'Pit? It's fighting free speech with more free speech, it seems to me.

Quite frankly, I want to be like those monkeys from a few pages ago, so this should happen.

[pajh]

Just on the apology - by that logic if I suggested that someone caught a STD at say burning man - I'd owe both that person *and* the burning man organisation an apology? Because there's no way anything in what Skep tickle actually posted that suggested he the STD came *from* a skepchick was there?

[Tony Parsehole]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

I'd like to take an add in that paper.
"Critic required for tentacle rape porn comic. Must have experience in the genre. Being a bellend not essential but preferred."

[TheMudbrooker]

And just what effect are you expecting haranguing PZ's employers about what a naughty boy he has been to have? That he'll be made to go stand in the corner?

Yes, standing in the corner, or a good time out is a pretty good analogy.

So no one was talking about getting PZ fired. It's just something you extrapolated. That's what I just said. Dipshit.

Read the rest of the post and quit being a quote mining jackoff.

Will it get more intelligent the second time around?

It's entirely possible that I missed the post where you stated what you hope to achieve by contacting PZ's employer and taking out ads in the local paper pointing out his bad conduct. Calls for such action certainly give the appearence of trying to cause him trouble at work, if that's not your intent, what exactly are you trying to do?

[BarnOwl]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

Here's the way I think they''ll spin it though ... "Slymepitters support conservative bigoted hate group newspaper on UMM campus." Therefore all slymepitters are racists.

The more dishonest, greasy, and reprehensible the tactics of Myers et al. become, the easier they are to predict. Just take the basest, least evolved path through the vengeful reactionary regions of your limbic lobe. Don't let your prefrontal cortex or any higher executive functions get in the way.

[Really?]

And just what effect are you expecting haranguing PZ's employers about what a naughty boy he has been to have? That he'll be made to go stand in the corner?

Yes, standing in the corner, or a good time out is a pretty good analogy.

So no one was talking about getting PZ fired. It's just something you extrapolated. That's what I just said. Dipshit.

Read the rest of the post and quit being a quote mining jackoff.

Will it get more intelligent the second time around?

It's entirely possible that I missed the post where you stated what you hope to achieve by contacting PZ's employer and taking out ads in the local paper pointing out his bad conduct. Calls for such action certainly give the appearence of trying to cause him trouble at work, if that's not your intent, what exactly are you trying to do?

You mean taking out an ad in the very student newspaper that PZ encouraged other students to destroy for FREEZE PEACH reasons?

This is LITERALLY fighting free speech with more free speech and supporting the very people PZ was trying to silence USING his position as a professor.

Just as he used his power as a professor to shut down that sexual misconduct allegation against him.

As everyone has stated, tenure will likely protect his job, and that's fine. But PZ has been punching down for quite some time; I don't see a problem with calling attention to the people he's punched.

[TiBo]

I couldn't resist....

[BarnOwl]

I couldn't resist....

:lol: :lol: :clap:

[sinister]

I couldn't resist....

:o
:popcorn:
:lol:

[sinister]

BarnOwl stole my idea.

[Really?]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

Here's the way I think they''ll spin it though ... "Slymepitters support conservative bigoted hate group newspaper on UMM campus." Therefore all slymepitters are racists.

The more dishonest, greasy, and reprehensible the tactics of Myers et al. become, the easier they are to predict. Just take the basest, least evolved path through the vengeful reactionary regions of your limbic lobe. Don't let your prefrontal cortex or any higher executive functions get in the way.

"The expert at controlling his enemy frustrates him and then moves against him. He aggravates him to confuse him and then moves against him. He aggravates him to confuses him and harasses him to make him fearful. Thus he robs his enemy of his heart and of his ability to plan."

http://books.google.com/books?id=lYwJqW ... m.&f=false

[screwtape]

This is for Pogsurf (on MN's blog):

This is the transcript of the phone-call (courtesy of Carrie Poppy) that PZ made to the AMA.

AMA: Hello. AMA complaints division.

PZM: Hi. I'd like to file a complaint against [redacted].

AMA: OK. Is [redacted] your physician?

PZM: No, she's a troll.

AMA: Ooooo-kaaay. And you're being treated by this ... um ... troll?

PZM: No, no, you don't get it. She's not a real troll; she's an internet troll. But she's also a doctor.

AMA: OK, so she is your physician.

PZM: Yes ... no ... I mean: she's a doctor, but not mine. But she diagnosed me on the internet.

AMA: Oh, you went to one of those Internet MD sites? Those aren't certified by the AMA. Most are in India, anyway. I can't really help.

PZM: No, no! She's an American doctor. She just diagnosed me based on stuff that I'd posted on my blog.

AMA: Oh. OK. And she did this as a practicing physician?

PZM: Yes! Exactly! [pause] Well, not exactly, really, but we know that she's a doctor eye-are-ell.

AMA: I'm sorry. Eye-are-ell?

PZM: In real life.

AMA: Ah, OK. So what's the problem?

PZM: Her diagnosis was wrong.

AMA: Well, as you know, all diagnoses are a best guess, based on what is known. [pause] How was her diagnosis incorrect?

PZM: She said that I had the clap. I didn't.

AMA: Well, that's a difficult diagnosis to make without blood-work. On what basis did she do this?

PZM: Because of a pain in my knee.

AMA: Well, that is one of the symptoms. Anything else?

PZM: That I'd been to a conference.

AMA: Well, again, until some people started agitating and took the fun out of conferences ... you'd be surprised.

PZM: But she posted about it! She said I had the clap! My students and trophy ... um, wife might see it!

AMA: Ah. Now I understand your concern. When did she, um, post about this.

PZM: Back when it happened.

AMA: Which was when?

PZM: Quite a while ago.

AMA: ... but you're complaining now.

PZM: Yes. Because someone linked to it.

AMA: Linked?

PZM: Posted a blog about me and included a link to the diagnosis.

AMA: ... the diagnosis that [redacted] had made as your doctor?

PZM: She's not my fucking doctor! She's a 'Pitter! A troll!

AMA: Please, sir. Language. [pause] A 'Pitter?

PZM: A SlymePitter. They're misogynist shitlords.

AMA: Please. Really, sir.

PZM: No. 'Shitlords' is what they call themselves. It's some kind of badge of honor to them

AMA: ... but you allowed her to continue as your doctor, anyway?

PZM: She was never my fucking ... sorry, not fucking doctor!

AMA: Then I don't see the issue.

PZM: She made it seem like I'd gotten the clap at a conference!

AMA: ... because you returned from a conference with the symptoms of gonorrhea.

PZM: Only some of them! And it wasn't the clap. I can prove it, too.

AMA: OK. But did [redacted] actually say that you had gonorrhea or only that you had symptoms consistent with gonorrhea?

PZM: She said that I had it! [pause] Well, not explicitly. But it was clear what she meant.

AMA: ... and this all happened a while ago, but you're bringing it to our attention now because someone made a blog-post about it.

PZM: That and a whole bunch of other stuff.

AMA: Also from [redacted]?

PZM: No. Other stuff. The mermaids. The hentai. The doxxing. All there reguly bullshit.

AMA: Please...

PZM: Sorry. It just pisses me off. I'm the Fifth Horseman, you know. And zebrafish ... that was my idea, too. Why do this do this?

AMA: [silence] Do I even want to know about the mermaids, hentai, doxxing - whatever that is - and other four Horsemen ... ?

PZM: Three.

AMA: I'm sorry?

PZM: Three other Horsemen.

AMA: Ah. I must have misheard. I thought you said that you were the fifth.

PZM: I am, but one of them died.

AMA: I'm so sorry. [pause] Was [redacted] his or her doctor, too?

[dial tone]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly how you minimise the influence of evil tentacle-misusing bloggers. You make people laugh at them.

[JacquesCuze]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

Here's the way I think they''ll spin it though ... "Slymepitters support conservative bigoted hate group newspaper on UMM campus." Therefore all slymepitters are racists.

The more dishonest, greasy, and reprehensible the tactics of Myers et al. become, the easier they are to predict. Just take the basest, least evolved path through the vengeful reactionary regions of your limbic lobe. Don't let your prefrontal cortex or any higher executive functions get in the way.

I am not even sure the Northstar is a student paper. During the legal threats PZ detailed months back, I got the impression it was a local Morris paper that distributed on campus.

When I suggested taking out ads a few days ago, viewtopic.php?f=31&t=393&p=225923&hilit=ads#p225923, viewtopic.php?f=31&t=393&p=225196&hilit=ads#p225196 what I had in mind was the official student paper.

http://www.universityregister.net/ or the local town paper www.morrissuntribune.com

They do seem to take ads, too, though they haven't responded to an inquiry I sent them a few days back.

Re: "getting PZ in trouble at work" I think that's the wrong way to think about it. All an ad needs to do is raise awareness. It can be satirical, it can congratulate PZ on being such an excellent communicator.

I'm not an academic, but when I went to a small private school taking STEM, the professors there really took it on themselves to stress graduate school, and their important role in helping students network, guide them through their research, and connect them with programs that would accept them. The school which was undergraduate only was extremely proud of the high percentage of its graduates who went on to graduate school. It was not just a point of personal pride, it was a huge selling point to the students it sought.

I've suggested a couple of places and no one has responded so I guess I'm all wet, that PZ's FTB behaviors would lead me to question, as a student or colleague or administrator, if

+ PZ would be a good name to have on a reference
+ PZ hasn't burned his contacts in the biology community
+ PZ isn't burning the reputation of the biology department of UMM
+ PZ's communication skills and stunts are really the "teach by example" role modeling that today's STEM students need

I don't know if PZ oversees any real research in his students, but at any rate, if I were a student, wondering whose lead to follow, and I was aware of PZs tactics, I'd be very cautious asking him for a reference.

In that sense, ads that raise awareness would do a real service to UMM and their students.

And that's all they need to do.

I'd go for a satirical ad, congratulating PZ on being one of the best science communicators, using pull quotes like movie reviews of the best analysis of the worst of his behaviors and then linking to a page offering links to the best of PZ.

[John Greg]

Eskarina said:

And if you're so concerned about Skep, have you actually asked her what she wants?

Brive The Super Agent of Right said:

... yes I've sent my wishes to Skep with a grateful reply.

One of these things is not like the other.

Jesus Brive, reel it in a bit would you? I mean, at least try for some semblance of sense and intelligence. I know you have it in you.

As a few people have now said, yes, you are free to do whatever the fuck you want in regard to this mess, but please stop lecturing the rest of us on what is and is not the ONLY WAY TO CORRECTLY BEHAVE! I mean, seriously, just fuck right off with your god damned pompous my way or the highway; us or them, bullshit rage tears. It is fucking tiresome; fucking tiresome.

And, to repeat what has already been said, why don't you ask Skep if she actually wants you to carry out this fucking jihad of yours, or not. Not a sympathy fucking note, you raging dissembler, but an actual "Are you comfortable with me carrying out this personal jihad on your behalf" kind of a note.

[TiBo]

I couldn't resist....

:lol: :lol: :clap:

damn, had to memoryhole it, apparently it showed with some kind of content warning (probably flagged by a #FTBullies lurker) :mrgreen:

[sinister]

::A straw man appears!::

::John Greg uses FIRE.::

::It's Super Effective!::

You guys simply either aren't reading, or you are straight up trying to belittle people with distortions. Either way, great job.

[screwtape]

It was still incredibly classy - IMO - for her to apologize, anyway, especially given how hard that probably was to do. :clap:

It was incredibly cowardly - IMO - for her to apologize instead of seeking a restraining order against Skepchick and targeting their Twitter account.

Even if prior dealings would make getting a restraining order against Myers difficult, no such history exists with regard to Watson. Not taking that opportunity to damage Watson is a grave strategic error.

If Myers can't be damaged directly, then damage his support network.

I suspect it was done either at the behest of the employer, or more likely on legal advice.

[Nec_V20]

I leave it up to you to decide after giving you all the facts at my disposal.

To set the scene, my mother was dying of cancer and she wanted to die at home, where she could say goodbye to people and they to her not at the convenience of visiting hours.

The hospital did not want to transport her and whilst my aunt and my cousin were in the room she took the doctor who denied her the request to be transported in a headlock with her arm firmly around his neck, chocking him, and said, "Do you want to make a bet on who is going to die first?"

Earlier in the day I had been there and she was sitting outside with a young woman whose father was also in the hospital and my mother had taken her under her wing to console her. My mother was talking to me about what would have to be done when she was dead the next week. The girl started to cry and my mother turned around to her and said, "Don't be stupid, I have to tell my boy this now how am I going to tell him later on".

As far as strength goes I think my mother made the Incredible Hulk look effeminate.

I also think she would be ashamed to share the same gender as the pity-party Rebecca Watson or Ophelia Benson's of the world.

Anyway I was driving down from Bonn to be with my mother at home at the end and there is one song that played at least three times during that trip on the radio. I'm not really a music kind of person so I don't know if it was so popular, coincidence, or if I was just driving that slowly.

This was the song:

[youtube]tEdpazLzYps[/youtube]

I remember thinking that I couldn't remember saying "I love you" to my mother and I was not going to start now. I was not going to be that kind of hypocrite - saying words for the occasion. If a bond needs those words to be spoken then in my view the bond is not there.

When I was at home our family doctor arrived with a roll. She unpacked it and there were at least thirty filled syringes like bullets in a cowboy belt was the impression I had. Her instruction for use were tacit, "Give her what she wants".

She was a lot more explicit about calling her after my mother's death before calling anyone else and making sure that all the empties were back in the roll.

I was under no misapprehension about what I was being called on to do.

My mother died whilst I was looking her in the eyes and I didn't even notice it until I was reaching over for another syringe and even though her eyes were still open her breathing had stopped.

Now yes, the stuff in the syringes was to cope with the pain. However I knew plain well that what I was injecting into my mother would shorten her life.

So am I a murderer?

I knew that what I was doing would prematurely terminate her life. So it was premeditated.

There was deliberation on my part, I knew what part I was playing in my mother's death - essentially hastening it along and being its direct causative agent.

What I did caused her to die hours earlier (without pain) than she otherwise would have (in excruciating agony). When however does murder start? At cutting a life short by seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years? Where is that boundary set?

Where does one draw the line? I have asked myself the question and without the syringes I think that I could have smothered her to death, but the line would be firmly drawn with regard to something like taking a hammer and bashing her to death with it. Those boundaries although perhaps strange with regard to the outcome are important to me with regard to the intent.

Although what I did would meet the criterion of premeditated murder I don't feel like I belong in that class of people alongside the likes of a Ted Bundy

The likes of PZ Myers or Orphelia Benson or Rebecca Watson do however figuratively put me in with the likes of Ted Bundy with regard to what they consider to be rape or misogyny.

Unlike them I think one can have sex with a woman without being a rapist. One can meet a woman and intend to have sex with her without being a rapist. One can even make jokes which involve women without being a misogynist.

Just as I shortened my mother's life and hastened her death but would not consider myself to be a murderer.

[JacquesCuze]

The other thing about taking out ads in student papers, is that it seems to be a long understood reasonable tool of protest and awareness raising in ways that calling the Dean is not.

And I was wrong, the North Star is a student run paper,
https://umnmorris.collegiatelink.net/or ... _northstar

but not the official school student paper
https://umnmorris.collegiatelink.net/organization/UR

Is their FEED fiction magazine another place for an ad?
https://umnmorris.collegiatelink.net/or ... onmagazine

Here are the rest of their student organizations
https://umnmorris.collegiatelink.net/Organizations

There is no Skeptics Club or Atheist Club so another suggestion for ads would be to encourage students to create them. Or to seek students interested in creating one to come to TAM or join the pit or point them to good skeptic, atheist forums and invite speakers to come to their campus and talk.

Or advertise Thunderf00t videos.

And then, having never done them, I wonder if instead of UMM newspaper ads, the Pit ran targeted Facebook and Google ads to UMM STEM students.

Interested in UMM biology? Get a google ad to PZ and the cracker. Or the grenade post. Or the Michael Nugent take down, or many of the others.

[free thoughtpolice]

I wonder if that campus paper takes ads.

Something small and tasteful

"Slymepit, Exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the social justice warriors since 2012"

Web address.

I'm sure that would sour peez's nap time cocoa.

Holy shit. That's an awesome idea. So awesome, in fact, that I would kick in a few bucks even though I have no money. (And if I could do so anonymously.)

Sorry; could have combined posts. Here's the Morris North Star Facebook page. Could someone who isn't afraid to use their IRL name ask if they do ads?

https://www.facebook.com/morrisnorthstar

They certainly have a "Donate" button:

http://morrisnorthstar.com/?page_id=22

Check out page 11 of their latest archived issue. They do ads.

http://morrisnorthstar.com/wp-content/u ... 4/v2i6.pdf

Would placing an ad be an activity that would agree with the vast majority of the 'Pit? It's fighting free speech with more free speech, it seems to me.

Quite frankly, I want to be like those monkeys from a few pages ago, so this should happen.

I think a full page ad peppered with quotes from PZ would be a good plan. Let his own words do the work and it would be tough for tentacle rape enthusiast PZ Myers to claim it is hate speech.
What it might do is inform the students and other on campus what kind of asshole he truly is and make it uncomfortable for him to show his face. If he really is the meek person in IRL that people say he is not only could it cause him discomfort but it would also inform his students, colleagues what he is really like when he isn't face to face.
That, and when he is sitting in class all those mermaids glaring back at the lecher that he really is would take some of the fun out of his fantasy life.

[Spike13]

BSR

Brilliant. That poor receptionist.

[BarnOwl]

I am not even sure the Northstar is a student paper. During the legal threats PZ detailed months back, I got the impression it was a local Morris paper that distributed on campus.

When I suggested taking out ads a few days ago, viewtopic.php?f=31&t=393&p=225923&hilit=ads#p225923, viewtopic.php?f=31&t=393&p=225196&hilit=ads#p225196 what I had in mind was the official student paper.

http://www.universityregister.net/ or the local town paper http://www.morrissuntribune.com

They do seem to take ads, too, though they haven't responded to an inquiry I sent them a few days back.

Re: "getting PZ in trouble at work" I think that's the wrong way to think about it. All an ad needs to do is raise awareness. It can be satirical, it can congratulate PZ on being such an excellent communicator.

I'm not an academic, but when I went to a small private school taking STEM, the professors there really took it on themselves to stress graduate school, and their important role in helping students network, guide them through their research, and connect them with programs that would accept them. The school which was undergraduate only was extremely proud of the high percentage of its graduates who went on to graduate school. It was not just a point of personal pride, it was a huge selling point to the students it sought.

I've suggested a couple of places and no one has responded so I guess I'm all wet, that PZ's FTB behaviors would lead me to question, as a student or colleague or administrator, if

+ PZ would be a good name to have on a reference
+ PZ hasn't burned his contacts in the biology community
+ PZ isn't burning the reputation of the biology department of UMM
+ PZ's communication skills and stunts are really the "teach by example" role modeling that today's STEM students need

I don't know if PZ oversees any real research in his students, but at any rate, if I were a student, wondering whose lead to follow, and I was aware of PZs tactics, I'd be very cautious asking him for a reference.

In that sense, ads that raise awareness would do a real service to UMM and their students.

And that's all they need to do.

I'd go for a satirical ad, congratulating PZ on being one of the best science communicators, using pull quotes like movie reviews of the best analysis of the worst of his behaviors and then linking to a page offering links to the best of PZ.

I think the situation in which this approach might work to an extent is if PZ were the pre-med advisor for UMM - I don't think he is, however. Many biology majors, especially from small liberal arts colleges, end up going to medical or dental school. The pre-med advisor would be well-known to admissions deans for medical schools in the state and in surrounding states; often this person, with or without a committee, writes the overall evaluation of any student who applies to medical school. The problem with letters of recommendation from undergrad professors is that in many cases the prof doesn't know the student very well, and can't say much worthwhile about whether the student is a good candidate for medical school. Such letters are of little use to an admissions committee. In contrast, the summary evaluation and letter from the pre-med advisor for a university is quite useful, and taken seriously by the admissions committee.

[Z-WolfOfTheAlphabet]

PZ must be almost as socially inept in person as online. A publicity stunt could give someone a chuckle but it would alert few to anything new. And the talk of moral high grounds is hollow, since by the end of the day we are all suckers for online drama. If someone did get him fired we would be shitting out of our nipples due to the excitement.

[Spike13]

Nec_v20

Powerful stuff, my condolences.

You relieved her pain, you brought mercy.you are a loving child who gently ushered your mother from this world

I hope when it's my time, my children act as you did.

[SkepticalCat]

What it might do is inform the students and other on campus what kind of asshole he truly is and make it uncomfortable for him to show his face. If he really is the meek person in IRL that people say he is not only could it cause him discomfort but it would also inform his students, colleagues what he is really like when he isn't face to face.

Yes it could, provided that PZ doesn't throw all the newspapers in the trash.

I think this idea has some merit, but I would ask North Star what their circulation is, and at how many locations the newspapers are placed, before committing to it.

[Spike13]

Anyone interested in being part of the fun and games, PM me.

I'll compile a list and keep everyone up dated.

[BarnOwl]

Remember a few weeks (and bazillions of pages) ago, when the Gumby-'shoop of "My brain is harassing me" was showing up on Google image results for Benson? How did that happen? Can we make it happen with 'shoops of other people?

[sinister]

What it might do is inform the students and other on campus what kind of asshole he truly is and make it uncomfortable for him to show his face. If he really is the meek person in IRL that people say he is not only could it cause him discomfort but it would also inform his students, colleagues what he is really like when he isn't face to face.

Yes it could, provided that PZ doesn't throw all the newspapers in the trash.

I think this idea has some merit, but I would ask North Star what their circulation is, and at how many locations the newspapers are placed, before committing to it.

It's $100. :) I know that's not pocket change, but I assure you this will strike his ego whether he trashes them or not. :D

[JacquesCuze]

I leave it up to you to decide after giving you all the facts at my disposal.

Wow, certainly a rough situation, so you and your entire family have my sympathies. I won't speculate beyond that, but um, not being the fascist tit, I am not sure I would want this conversation on the pit due to potential legal problems that not being a lawyer, I can only imagine with no expertise.

[screwtape]

I think a full page ad peppered with quotes from PZ would be a good plan. Let his own words do the work and it would be tough for tentacle rape enthusiast PZ Myers to claim it is hate speech.
What it might do is inform the students and other on campus what kind of asshole he truly is and make it uncomfortable for him to show his face. If he really is the meek person in IRL that people say he is not only could it cause him discomfort but it would also inform his students, colleagues what he is really like when he isn't face to face.
That, and when he is sitting in class all those mermaids glaring back at the lecher that he really is would take some of the fun out of his fantasy life.

Or simply a reprint of his mermaid fantasy with URL to FTB and one to a freezepage in case it disappears.

[Apples]

PZ must be almost as socially inept in person as online. A publicity stunt could give someone a chuckle but it would alert few to anything new. And the talk of moral high grounds is hollow, since by the end of the day we are all suckers for online drama. If someone did get him fired we would be shitting out of our nipples due to the excitement.

welcome and (h/t Mykerpoo) - go fuck yourself

[youtube]QO2QL_x1wI0[/youtube]

[JacquesCuze]

PZ must be almost as socially inept in person as online. A publicity stunt could give someone a chuckle but it would alert few to anything new. And the talk of moral high grounds is hollow, since by the end of the day we are all suckers for online drama. If someone did get him fired we would be shitting out of our nipples due to the excitement.

http://i.imgur.com/yL45JGW.jpg

[screwtape]

I leave it up to you to decide after giving you all the facts at my disposal......

I have sent you my thoughts by PM. You're OK in my book.

[BarnOwl]

Welcome, Z-WolfOfTheAlphabet. Here is a basket of links to peruse:

https://funtimebirdy.files.wordpress.co ... =300&h=300

[Nec_V20]

I leave it up to you to decide after giving you all the facts at my disposal.

Wow, certainly a rough situation, so you and your entire family have my sympathies. I won't speculate beyond that, but um, not being the fascist tit, I am not sure I would want this conversation on the pit due to potential legal problems that not being a lawyer, I can only imagine with no expertise.

I thought I would be banged up for murder, because my mother had left her body to science, so the first call (after to the doctor to pick up the empties) was to Marburg University. So a detailed autopsy was going to be the first thing on the agenda.

I was under no illusion that the massive overdose of what I assume was morphine (the possession of which and administering of, by me, was a crime in itself) would hasten my mother's demise.

This happened in 1995 and there is no statute of limitations on murder so you are right of it being unwise in one sense.

In another sense however this thread reminded me of the situation and how the PZ's of this world would doxx me and put what I did in the worst possible light and even have the police appear at my door.

[Kirbmarc]

Jen Phillips, Twitter warrior, hater of Freeze Peaches, fucking genius:

[JacquesCuze]

I leave it up to you to decide after giving you all the facts at my disposal.

Wow, certainly a rough situation, so you and your entire family have my sympathies. I won't speculate beyond that, but um, not being the fascist tit, I am not sure I would want this conversation on the pit due to potential legal problems that not being a lawyer, I can only imagine with no expertise.

I thought I would be banged up for murder, because my mother had left her body to science, so the first call (after to the doctor to pick up the empties) was to Marburg University. So a detailed autopsy was going to be the first thing on the agenda.

I was under no illusion that the massive overdose of what I assume was morphine (the possession of which and administering of, by me, was a crime in itself) would hasten my mother's demise.

This happened in 1995 and there is no statute of limitations on murder so you are right of it being unwise in one sense.

In another sense however this thread reminded me of the situation and how the PZ's of this world would doxx me and put what I did in the worst possible light and even have the police appear at my door.

I'd think about it a bit before letting you babysit my crying poopy kids. But yeah, when my parents were going, I might've asked you for your mother's doctor's name.

[Tribble]

Wow! Benson is an incredibly bitter old hag. Does she have anything positive to contribute to society? I work with terminally ill people who are less bitter even in their anger phase. And to think that Dawkins once thought he could work with that!

No. Ever since her co-bloggers left she's gone further and further into lazy copy-pasta and following the FTB herd. She certainly hasn't done anything of merit on her own.

[Tribble]

Something can be done, they will expend all the keystrokes in the world telling people what they did was wrong and the best way to do nothing. Of course, they will pay lip service to your own agency by saying "well, it's your own prerogative..." but really, that's bullshit, and they will deploy the ad hoc veto when they can.

I believe it's the apathetic chorus who were convinced that the best way to address Ben Radford's call for donations to continue his legal fight was to not do whatever the fuck it was I did.

Don't argue with them. If they want to do nothing, or play critic of whatever action other people take, why waste energy explaining it to them? They don't care. They know better. They just like to sit in judgment. They like typing. They suck the fucking air out of the room.

No, Mykeru. You're just stupid ass who thinks he's a warrior while you sit your desk and stroke your dick thinking you're doing the world a favor by acting like an asshole on the Internet and tattling to the UMM (which will accomplish NOTHING, not even get you a polite hand job).

This kind of situation doesn't get resolved by Internet pseudo-warriors whining to employers who have PROVEN THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK. Rather, it's about using Paul's bullshit and trollish behavior against him.


The long-game versus the worthless short game. The. Fucking. End.