Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Dick Strawkins]

... or they can do their normal tactics, which is to try and dig up dirt on Michael Nugent or lacking that set up their old rumor mill and campaign of quiet whispers of bad things he has supposedly done. 2:1 odds Szvan leads the quiet back channel charge on this effort.

2:1 odds?

I don't think a bookmaker would offer you any odds on that particular scenario which is about as cast-iron a certainty as you will ever find.

Stephanie Smear has only one function for the Minnesota mafia and it's one she applies herself to in a truly remarkable manner.

My bet is that Watson will soon undergo a miraculous recovery from her incurable Prosopagnosia and suddenly realize that Mick Nugent is none other than the legendary Elevator Guy.

[deLurch]

New Nugent post on PZ

http://www.michaelnugent.com

He is setting up a Lousy type update page.

It's going to take a long time to go through all those links.

Those links go to his prior blog post rebuttals. And yes, those blog posts are through to the point of a Steersman level. However, Michale N. is smart. He summarizes each post at the top, and then reiterates the point of the post at the bottom. So if you don't have the spoons to read the whole dang thing, you can just read the summary. If you doubt what he says, or want sources on any particular point, he has complete details down farther.

I like his style. Also, in reference to liking his style, in addition to being firm & clear about what he expects and what he will do if conditions are not met, he adds points like this

I am confident that we will move beyond these smears.

He stays positive, and leaves people an out if and when they want it.

[deLurch]

Oh good god:

Like many West Africans, I was aghast when I saw the picture of what Jamie Olivier tried to pass off as Jollof rice. Twitter was set ablaze by the B1aijQDCEAApYGlrighteous fury of West Africans, protesting the audacity of an international white celebrity chef, who dared to plagiarised (and badly so too), West Africa’s much beloved dish, Jollof Rice. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey jollof rice is not just any rice, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as #Jollofgate fury has proved, it is an African pride.

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... ollofgate/

:snooty:

On a side note, rice is native to both Asia AND Africa.

Rice is the seed of the monocot plants Oryza sativa (Asian rice) or Oryza glaberrima (African rice).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice

[James Caruthers]

It's also sad that voting "no" on pointless new taxes to fund clearly mismanaged social programs is enough on its own to qualify me as "conservative" in my city, or to at least force me to vote in conservatives.

My city spends out the ass on social programs and gets very little back because management of the programs is so poor. I therefore always vote against increased taxes because I know these funds will also be mismanaged.

My city management would make the journalists at Kotaku and Polygon look downright ethical. They leave our roads unpaved (or try to charge individual homeowners for the cost, and I mean the ENTIRE cost) while spending tens of millions pumping up alternative forms of public transit, removing lanes of traffic to insert bike lanes on busy streets and throwing good money after bad stuffing public education with unnecessary SJW programs.

What gets neglected? Road maintenance. STEM. Repair and improvement on existing public transit (buses.) The entire city is a big mess.

It even backfires re: public transit because they keep raising rates (passing along the cost of other transit projects that have nothing to do with the buses) to the point that I have to wonder how many poor and homeless people are unable to afford tickets.

I just checked and we pay the same price for our bus tickets as the guys in NYC. What a joke.

[James Caruthers]

/rant off

[Kirbmarc]

My bet is that Watson will soon undergo a miraculous recovery from her incurable Prosopagnosia and suddenly realize that Mick Nugent is none other than the legendary Elevator Guy.

According to theophontes the Elevator Guy was probably a rapist. Others have expressed the same view of the event. If Mick Nugent is accused of being the Elevator Guy he will only have more ammunition for suing PZ's acolytes.

Zvan should really call it quits before it's too late.

[Satan]

Zvan should really call it quits before it's too late.

Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.

[Pogsurf]

Good post about SJW's. I'm actually starting to get a bit optimistic that the backlash has traction.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/acitizenof ... qus_thread

That was good and please let me be the first to say that the person it most made me think of was Xanthe.

Excellent read. I couldn't resist suggesting there may be an Humanist asshole hiding in plain sight.

[James Caruthers]

Personally, I think Zvan has a point. We've yet to see any of their ilk taken into a courtroom over unsubstantiated criminal accusations of wrongdoing. Even though it's malicious, wrong and may qualify as libel, courts are expensive and I seriously would be surprised if anything happens.

I dunno what Radford and Shermer are doing these days.

Nugent has made some veiled threats, but he hasn't actually said anything like "stop accusing me of crimes and publicly apologize or I'm going to sue you, PZ."

YMMV.

[Satan]

Brianna and Samantha Allen vehemently hate men, for instance. An interesting stance considering they were born biologically male.

I think some MtFs trans exhibit the same kind of fanaticism as do some religious converts and some immigrants--they over-demonstrate the cultural markers of the group they've entered. Religious converts can go directly to violent fanaticism (e.g. various Muslim converts who have become jihadists); immigrants can become ultra-patriotic/nationalist; and MtF trans can really, really overdo everything they consider feminine.

Of course, a lot of MtF trans are also self-loathing pre-transition, and some of this seems to turn into misandry post-transition.

[Pogsurf]

Skep tickle, thanks for your suggestion re: Daylight Atheism. I took out the gloating and just flatly introduced some evidence which contradicts Adam Lee's claim that there is no evidence for behavioural differences between men and women. The comment didn't get past moderation.

My hunch is that Lee is just a lying sack of shit. I'll probably stick to gloating next time.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightat ... tmosphere/

[windy]

Oh good god:

Like many West Africans, I was aghast when I saw the picture of what Jamie Olivier tried to pass off as Jollof rice. Twitter was set ablaze by the righteous fury of West Africans, protesting the audacity of an international white celebrity chef, who dared to plagiarised (and badly so too), West Africa’s much beloved dish, Jollof Rice. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey jollof rice is not just any rice, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as #Jollofgate fury has proved, it is an African pride.

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... ollofgate/

:snooty:

On a side note, rice is native to both Asia AND Africa.

Rice is the seed of the monocot plants Oryza sativa (Asian rice) or Oryza glaberrima (African rice).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice

But tomatoes and chilis aren't. And the dish itself was appropriated by the Nigerians:

It is thought to have originated amongst members of the Wolof ethnic group in the Senegambia region; the historic name for the Wolof people and their empire being Jollof, but has since spread to the whole of West Africa, especially Nigeria, Togo, Ghana, Sierra Leone and Liberia.

:snooty:

[Kirbmarc]

Stop baking pizzas. people everywhere. As someone who has some Italian ancestry I urge you to fight against the heinous cultural appropriation of an Italian product.

Twitter should be set ablaze by the righteous fury of Italians and people of Italian ancestry, protesting the audacity of an international corporations like PizzaHut, who dare to plagiarise (and badly so too), Italy’s much beloved dish, pizza. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey pizza is not just any dish, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as the #Pizzagate fury will soon prove, it is an Italian pride.

[TedDahlberg]

Apropos of nothing; I've observed that there are 3 times per day wherein my cats are irresistibly drawn to me. One is of course feeding time, that's self explanatory. The other 2 are mysterious and cannot figure out what is the attraction. One is whenever I'm on the toilet. They come in and sit by me like I called a meeting. The other is when I'm hanging upside down on my inversion rack. I would love to know what is going on in their walnut sized brains.

Same old, same old...

http://i.imgur.com/r5tKnav.jpg

[Pogsurf]

Here's a video by NoelPlum99 which I needed as a first look into GamerGate. Full disclosure: I contributed $1 to its making. He contrasts what Brianna Wu wants (games for women) with what Anita Saarkesian wants (no saucy games for men) via a very good magazine shop analogy.

[deLurch]

Brianna and Samantha Allen vehemently hate men, for instance. An interesting stance considering they were born biologically male.

I think some MtFs trans exhibit the same kind of fanaticism as do some religious converts and some immigrants--they over-demonstrate the cultural markers of the group they've entered. Religious converts can go directly to violent fanaticism (e.g. various Muslim converts who have become jihadists); immigrants can become ultra-patriotic/nationalist; and MtF trans can really, really overdo everything they consider feminine.

Of course, a lot of MtF trans are also self-loathing pre-transition, and some of this seems to turn into misandry post-transition.

Imagine being a MtF trans who is into men. I can see them getting rather jaded by the knowledge that most men would not be into a relationship or sex with them, when they want the world to see them as indistinguishable from any other woman.

[deLurch]

Stop baking pizzas. people everywhere. As someone who has some Italian ancestry I urge you to fight against the heinous cultural appropriation of an Italian product.

Twitter should be set ablaze by the righteous fury of Italians and people of Italian ancestry, protesting the audacity of an international corporations like PizzaHut, who dare to plagiarise (and badly so too), Italy’s much beloved dish, pizza. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey pizza is not just any dish, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as the #Pizzagate fury will soon prove, it is an Italian pride.

No more paradise fruit for you!

[deLurch]

Here's a video by NoelPlum99 which I needed as a first look into GamerGate. Full disclosure: I contributed $1 to its making. He contrasts what Brianna Wu wants (games for women) with what Anita Saarkesian wants (no saucy games for men) via a very good magazine shop analogy.

Excellent video. I am so glad you shared that with us.

[rayshul]

Oh good god:

Like many West Africans, I was aghast when I saw the picture of what Jamie Olivier tried to pass off as Jollof rice. Twitter was set ablaze by the B1aijQDCEAApYGlrighteous fury of West Africans, protesting the audacity of an international white celebrity chef, who dared to plagiarised (and badly so too), West Africa’s much beloved dish, Jollof Rice. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey jollof rice is not just any rice, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as #Jollofgate fury has proved, it is an African pride.

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... ollofgate/

:snooty:

Is she Poe-ing us? I feel like that has to be a Poe. I recognise that yes, this is Yemmy, but really?

[Oglebart]

http://imgur.com/RfpC4Sf.jpg

Fucking lol. It's horrible, but I can't look away. Brilliant.

[comhcinc]

It would appear our discussion about libel has struck a worried cord with Zvan. Certainly it's top of mind for her.

Nice to see she is still lurking. No more poems though.

http://i.imgur.com/n72BQ7K.jpg

I love the part where Zvan tries to tell us (or maybe she's channeling PZ trying to tell us) what is "tortious" - as if she has a fricken clue on this question. At best, she is projecting what she knows of US libel laws onto the Republic of Ireland, because, after all, the whole world is just like the US, eh? Well, I got news for you, Zvanster. PZ is fucking toast; it's just a question of whether MN will do it.

I honestly agree with Zvanny on this on. Kinda.

The whole MN is ready to sue is fantasy completely create and paraded here. While I will agree that he seems to have grounds under Irish law to sue it would be pointless since, as also has been pointed out by many of the same people here, he doesn't have any way to enforce any judgement that would come of it. That isn't my real issue though.

My real issue is I find the European libel laws to be just awful and inimical to free speech. I would be very disappointed if that was the route that MN chose to take. I feel what he is doing now is the best course of action. It would force me to have to support PZ's right to say damn stupid things and make an ass out of himself.

[comhcinc]

Here's a video by NoelPlum99 which I needed as a first look into GamerGate. Full disclosure: I contributed $1 to its making. He contrasts what Brianna Wu wants (games for women) with what Anita Saarkesian wants (no saucy games for men) via a very good magazine shop analogy.

Excellent video. I am so glad you shared that with us.

Lol hey, it's early/late/something. Here is what he meant.

[youtube]ykxyHystj2c[/youtube]


Also this which I have not watch as of this posting, but I am posting it because I noticed it when I was going through my subscriptions to find Jim's video.

[youtube]2IScD8HOFtE[/youtube]

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

comhcinc: What myers has done is not the free exercise of speech, it is libel, pure and simple. I even wonder if it couldn't be hate speech, for that matter. In Europe, hate speech is penalized, and for oblivious reasons. Remember we have a long history here on the old continent.

As for a lawsuit: even if the judgment wasn't enforced, the very act of a suit and its findings would have a serious impact in the eye of the public. An impact not only on Myers, but also on vindictive SJWs. Plus Myers would have a hard time going to Ireland.

[Kirbmarc]

The whole MN is ready to sue is fantasy completely create and paraded here. While I will agree that he seems to have grounds under Irish law to sue it would be pointless since, as also has been pointed out by many of the same people here, he doesn't have any way to enforce any judgement that would come of it. That isn't my real issue though.

My real issue is I find the European libel laws to be just awful and inimical to free speech. I would be very disappointed if that was the route that MN chose to take. I feel what he is doing now is the best course of action. It would force me to have to support PZ's right to say damn stupid things and make an ass out of himself.

I kind of agree with you in that I don't actually want Nugent to sue. I don't want PZ to go to jail or pay money for saying stupid stuff. I want him to reflect on the potential legal consequences of his behavior, though.

If the threat of a sue, however vague, makes some people who post smears at least try to think about what they're doing, there's no harm in making idiots believe that their ass in on the line.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Make that "obvious", not "oblivious". Fucking edit buttons, how do they work?

[JackSkeptic]

My bet is that Watson will soon undergo a miraculous recovery from her incurable Prosopagnosia and suddenly realize that Mick Nugent is none other than the legendary Elevator Guy.

According to theophontes the Elevator Guy was probably a rapist. Others have expressed the same view of the event. If Mick Nugent is accused of being the Elevator Guy he will only have more ammunition for suing PZ's acolytes.

Zvan should really call it quits before it's too late.

'...I heard a rumour but didn't want to believe it....I don't like to spread rumours but....guy seen entering elevator...red shirt...singing Danny Boy....it all makes sense now....'

[JackSkeptic]

Oh good god:

Like many West Africans, I was aghast when I saw the picture of what Jamie Olivier tried to pass off as Jollof rice. Twitter was set ablaze by the B1aijQDCEAApYGlrighteous fury of West Africans, protesting the audacity of an international white celebrity chef, who dared to plagiarised (and badly so too), West Africa’s much beloved dish, Jollof Rice. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey jollof rice is not just any rice, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as #Jollofgate fury has proved, it is an African pride.

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... ollofgate/

:snooty:

Is she Poe-ing us? I feel like that has to be a Poe. I recognise that yes, this is Yemmy, but really?

Most of it comes across as tongue in cheek laced with the usual cultural appropriation claims and casual racism.

[JackSkeptic]

It would appear our discussion about libel has struck a worried cord with Zvan. Certainly it's top of mind for her.

Nice to see she is still lurking. No more poems though.

http://i.imgur.com/n72BQ7K.jpg

I love the part where Zvan tries to tell us (or maybe she's channeling PZ trying to tell us) what is "tortious" - as if she has a fricken clue on this question. At best, she is projecting what she knows of US libel laws onto the Republic of Ireland, because, after all, the whole world is just like the US, eh? Well, I got news for you, Zvanster. PZ is fucking toast; it's just a question of whether MN will do it.

I honestly agree with Zvanny on this on. Kinda.

The whole MN is ready to sue is fantasy completely create and paraded here. While I will agree that he seems to have grounds under Irish law to sue it would be pointless since, as also has been pointed out by many of the same people here, he doesn't have any way to enforce any judgement that would come of it. That isn't my real issue though.

My real issue is I find the European libel laws to be just awful and inimical to free speech. I would be very disappointed if that was the route that MN chose to take. I feel what he is doing now is the best course of action. It would force me to have to support PZ's right to say damn stupid things and make an ass out of himself.

She is missing the point and so are you. It is about the possibility of action and the legal issues, which is very relevant. That has nothing to do with the desirability of doing it. I have already said I hope he takes no action but that is irrelevant. They are two entirely separate issues. People like to discuss possibilities, that does not mean they wish a given possibility to happen. Some people might, some might not.

She is deliberately muddying the waters, a common Zvan trick.

[comhcinc]

comhcinc: What myers has done is not the free exercise of speech, it is libel, pure and simple. I even wonder if it couldn't be hate speech, for that matter. In Europe, hate speech is penalized, and for oblivious reasons. Remember we have a long history here on the old continent. As for a lawsuit: even if the judgment wasn't enforced, the very act of a suit and its findings would have a serious impact in the eye of the public. An impact not only on Myers, but also on vindictive SJWs.

I'm not a legal expert, past copyright laws I am pretty ignorant of the law (copyright laws I am actually pretty good on). That said I don't think what PZ has done is libel in the U.S.. At the very least I know it would be much more of a grey area. As the free speech loving cowboy 'Merican I am, I feel that libel is only an issue when damage can be shown. I don't think MN has been damaged by anything PZ has said.

Note: I do see where Shermer has.

Plus Myers would have a hard time going to Ireland.

Why? I mean I really don't know. Would Ireland deny him entrance? Would he face jail time?

[Oglebart]

New post Pharyngula rubbishing a report in Business Insider titled 'Scientists Have Figured Out What Makes Women Attractive" I'm not going to link it here and I'm sure someone could freezepage it or simlar to avoid giving them more clicks, but here is an interesting sentence from PZ.

I don’t know about you, but I interact with a lot of women in my classes — and I don’t think at all about having babies with any of them, nor do any of them consider me as a sperm donor. Same with my colleagues. Same with the people I meet on the street. And it’s the same with you. Sex is not the primary determinant of how we live our lives.

Maybe he's regretting the whole mermaid fantasy thing now, should have kept that one to yourself eh PZ? :doh:

[bhoytony]

Hey, don't fuck with Laurel and Hardy. Stan laurel was a genius. Don't ever link him with those losers.

Also anybody who attacks that mockney wanker Jamie Oliver is ok as far as I'm concerned.

[bhoytony]

Hey, don't fuck with Laurel and Hardy. Stan laurel was a genius. Don't ever link him with those losers.

Also anybody who attacks that mockney wanker Jamie Oliver is ok as far as I'm concerned.

[Spike13]

Poe or not Poe...who the fuck can tell any more.

[comhcinc]

I kind of agree with you in that I don't actually want Nugent to sue. I don't want PZ to go to jail or pay money for saying stupid stuff. I want him to reflect on the potential legal consequences of his behavior, though.

If the threat of a sue, however vague, makes some people who post smears at least try to think about what they're doing, there's no harm in making idiots believe that their ass in on the line.

I get what you are saying but I disagree. Telling someone "you better watch what you say or the Irish speech police will come and get ya" is a silencing tactic. I am against silencing tactics. Let people say what they want. Let people say what they want. You don't have to give them a platform (like inviting them to your convention) but you shouldn't take their platform away (like PZ's ugly looking, ad riddled blog)

Btw I know this is kinda off subject but for me that goes for things like twitter,facebook, and youtube, as well. You can't invite everyone in and then decide you don't like what people are saying. If you are going to be a public space then you need to stay that way.

She is missing the point and so are you. It is about the possibility of action and the legal issues, which is very relevant. That has nothing to do with the desirability of doing it. I have already said I hope he takes no action but that is irrelevant. They are two entirely separate issues. People like to discuss possibilities, that does not mean they wish a given possibility to happen. Some people might, some might not.

She is deliberately muddying the waters, a common Zvan trick.

I am not calling anyone out by names, because I am not willing to enact the labor of looking back over the post, but some people here really seem to be quite giddy about the idea of PZ being sued by MN.

Maybe I am misreading that, but that is the impression I have gotten from some folks. So I can understand that her getting that impression as well. Of course you are right that she is then using it a board bush to try to paint the whole thing away. I am not doing that. I am just stating that she has somewhat of a point. Unlike her I am willing to let her somewhat of a point stand.

[comhcinc]

Poe or not Poe...who the fuck can tell any more.

I don't know but I got a laugh from reading it.

[JackSkeptic]

@comhcinc

Why is what you said about Zvan relevant at all? It is a distactor as she is claiming our so called glee is misplaced. It does not matter if everyone here is dancing in glee that does not make her position right. The fact that Shermar did not proceed bears no relationship to the validity of his case. She mixes issues all the time and this is just another example of her trying to smear.

She has no point by making an irrelevant observation which in itself is false. She double down dumb.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

comhcinc: What myers has done is not the free exercise of speech, it is libel, pure and simple. I even wonder if it couldn't be hate speech, for that matter. In Europe, hate speech is penalized, and for oblivious reasons. Remember we have a long history here on the old continent. As for a lawsuit: even if the judgment wasn't enforced, the very act of a suit and its findings would have a serious impact in the eye of the public. An impact not only on Myers, but also on vindictive SJWs.

I'm not a legal expert, past copyright laws I am pretty ignorant of the law (copyright laws I am actually pretty good on). That said I don't think what PZ has done is libel in the U.S.. At the very least I know it would be much more of a grey area. As the free speech loving cowboy 'Merican I am, I feel that libel is only an issue when damage can be shown. I don't think MN has been damaged by anything PZ has said.

Note: I do see where Shermer has.

Plus Myers would have a hard time going to Ireland.

Why? I mean I really don't know. Would Ireland deny him entrance? Would he face jail time?

To your first pont: a single person publicly saying they won't support MN or his org anymore because of what Myers said would be enough, I suppose. And IIRC, it has already happened (too lazy to search it right now).

Second point: I'm quite sure if there was a judgment decision and Myers didn't honor it (for jurisdiction, I guess?), then him setting foot in Ireland may very well put him in a bit of a kerfuffle.

I am no lawyer either, but that's how I see it. Which means nothing until a lawyer steps in to clarify. It's just idle thinking-out-loud.

[Spike13]

New post Pharyngula rubbishing a report in Business Insider titled 'Scientists Have Figured Out What Makes Women Attractive" I'm not going to link it here and I'm sure someone could freezepage it or simlar to avoid giving them more clicks, but here is an interesting sentence from PZ.

I don’t know about you, but I interact with a lot of women in my classes — and I don’t think at all about having babies with any of them, nor do any of them consider me as a sperm donor. Same with my colleagues. Same with the people I meet on the street. And it’s the same with you. Sex is not the primary determinant of how we live our lives.

Maybe he's regretting the whole mermaid fantasy thing now, should have kept that one to yourself eh PZ? :doh:

Well,... it all depends on someone's sex drive. Some folks are constantly thinking about and trying to engage in sexual encounters.

Others are more chaste, they don't have that same drive urging them on. There are even others(at least I have heard rumors) who have absolutely no desire to have sex at all.

Everybody is different, how a biology prof. could miss that is rather stunning, unless he was purposefully blinded by his own agenda.

Oh, and the part about no one considering PZ to be a sperm donor...we all pretty much surmised that long ago professor frumpy.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Outside of porn, I find myself totally not turned-on by female representations, be it video games, movies, TV shows, comics...

Context is important.

[windy]

Is she Poe-ing us? I feel like that has to be a Poe. I recognise that yes, this is Yemmy, but really?

Most of it comes across as tongue in cheek laced with the usual cultural appropriation claims and casual racism.

http://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-fea ... 1659566703

I'm glad a high profile-cook attempted to make our beloved dish but I must say this is more of paella or breakfast pillaf than Jollof rice. Yes, essentially its all rice cooked in tomato puree and chicken broth, but once you replace African flavoring like Maggie cube with parsley, coriander and other western spices, you MUST change the name to a western name(i.e. paella) as the taste would change.

"African flavoring like Maggie cube"
:bjarte:

The dish is not much like paella, but all those "Western" cultures and foods are the same amirite?

[comhcinc]

@comhcinc

Why is what you said about Zvan relevant at all? It is a distactor as she is claiming our so called glee is misplaced. It does not matter if everyone here is dancing in glee that does not make her position right. The fact that Shermar did not proceed bears no relationship to the validity of his case. She mixes issues all the time and this is just another example of her trying to smear.

She has no point by making an irrelevant observation which in itself is false. She double down dumb.

I said she kinda had a point. When she said:

on, rt's way simpler den tat. Tney're all nop[ng beyond nope tnat Nugent || sue Pz for
libel (and n, of urse), Everything they see or say is fiwered througn that

This text was recognized by the built-in Ocrad engine. A better transcription may be attained by right clicking on the selection and changing the OCR engine to "Tesseract" (under the "Language" menu). This message can be removed in the future by unchecking "OCR Disclaimer" (under the Options menu). More info: http://projectnaptha.com/ocrad

(lol that so didn't work)

Try that again.

They are all hoping beyond hope that Nugent will sue PZ for libel (and win of course)

There are some here that seem to be hoping for that and I also don't like that. I also think that glee (which again is not the whole pit) is misplaced.

That's all I am saying.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Fucking 503!

Windy, probably a typo:

http://www.maagi-stl.org/

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

They are all hoping beyond hope that Nugent will sue PZ for libel (and win of course)

There are some here that seem to be hoping for that and I also don't like that. I also think that glee (which again is not the whole pit) is misplaced.

That's all I am saying.

Not all are hoping here at the Pit, but I sure am.

[subbie1957]

Personally, I think Zvan has a point. We've yet to see any of their ilk taken into a courtroom over unsubstantiated criminal accusations of wrongdoing. Even though it's malicious, wrong and may qualify as libel, courts are expensive and I seriously would be surprised if anything happens.

I dunno what Radford and Shermer are doing these days.

Nugent has made some veiled threats, but he hasn't actually said anything like "stop accusing me of crimes and publicly apologize or I'm going to sue you, PZ."

YMMV.

None of these women Shermer has raped has ever even made a statement to the police. If staying out of court proves your innocence, then Shermer is innocent.

[comhcinc]

To your first pont: a single person publicly saying they won't support MN or his org anymore because of what Myers said would be enough, I suppose. And IIRC, it has already happened (too lazy to search it right now).

Second point: I'm quite sure if there was a judgment decision and Myers didn't honor it (for jurisdiction, I guess?), then him setting foot in Ireland may very well put him in a bit of a kerfuffle.

I am no lawyer either, but that's how I see it. Which means nothing until a lawyer steps in to clarify. It's just idle thinking-out-loud.

If you are correct and a single person is all it takes to claim damage that is just down right scary. That means that any comment made by anyone about anything could be considered libel. No, I don't think it's that bad even in Europe.

In the States I do know that the courts have no way of imposing a civil fine on an person. You could sue me for libel for example, you frog eating pounce, and win and that doesn't mean a hill of beans if you don't know where my money is.

[bovarchist]

Right now I am looking to buy a decent hunting crossbow, thinking about D&D 5th, a Vespa, maybe a second wife.

http://i.imgur.com/DX19Ch4.jpg

Fuck now I have to add eyepatch to the list.

Or maybe one of these:

http://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/745.png

[Oglebart]

Personally, I think Zvan has a point. We've yet to see any of their ilk taken into a courtroom over unsubstantiated criminal accusations of wrongdoing. Even though it's malicious, wrong and may qualify as libel, courts are expensive and I seriously would be surprised if anything happens.

I dunno what Radford and Shermer are doing these days.

Nugent has made some veiled threats, but he hasn't actually said anything like "stop accusing me of crimes and publicly apologize or I'm going to sue you, PZ."

YMMV.

I don't think that Nugent intends to sue at all, I don't think that's where his efforts are focused. He's nothing if not tenacious and the way he is going about holding PZ's feet to the fire is great. I'm sure he realises that it may be a long process but I think it could prove to be a very effective strategy. Any reasonable person looking at this drama from the outside can follow the evidence that has been laid out and come to their own conclusion, and the more flailing around that the FTBullies do, the more unhinged they look. As has been pointed out here already, Michael Nugent has been involved in a lot of serious, real world activism against the backdrop of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. He has gone directly up against the Sinn Fein and the IRA,amongst many others and Myers is hopelessly out of his depth here, they couldn't be more different in terms of integrity and courage, and this is obvious for all to see, except the most die-hard Pharyngulite, and even some of them must be secretly wavering.

I don't know what to make of the Shermer situation, he is being accused of being a serial rapist on FTB, I've read some of the recent threads, mostly on Pharyngula, and that's the way he is referred to now, it has become canon. If I were the target of such slurs the very least I would do would be to take a flight to Morris, Minnesota and confront Myers, you know, dudebro honour and all that. Maybe he thinks it's better to let Myers burn himself out and that saying nothing is better, but I wouldn't be able to completely ignore the stuff written on FTB, it's not exactly ambiguous.

[James Caruthers]

I do think accusations of criminal wrongdoing, when such cannot be proven and can be shown to have been made for malicious purposes, amount to legal slander and should be prosecuted so as to better protect the legal presumption of innocence. Furthermore, all citizens of the United States are given certain legal rights which afford protection from extra-judicial punishment for accusations of crime. A citizen is supposed to be found either guilty or not guilty by trial in a court of law. What PZ and Co do, if successful, amounts to an online Gitmo. It is a way of completely bypassing the legal process to mete out their own brand of "justice" (shunning, firing, calls for doxxing and harassment) without any trial.

So I fully support Nugent or anyone else who wishes to bring a suit against PZ or his cohorts for their abuse of unproven criminal accusations as a tool to attempt to blacklist and smear more famous atheists. However, I acknowledge Zvan's point that such legal action is unlikely.

If an unscrupulous worm like PZ has a criminal accusation to make against any person, it is incumbent upon him and his friends to make their complaint at the nearest police station. That is the proper venue for settling criminal accusations. In fact, if it were not for their doxxing, attempts to get others fired and relentless slander, I would feel perfectly happy to ignore FTB and Skepchick for the rest of my life. I don't see much point in getting offended over their trashy articles-that's like being offended because Jezebel wrote something I don't agree with.

If you have a case, SJWs, by all means take your case to the fucking COPS and get some real justice for these supposed victims of rape, and in the process you will have removed a "rapist" or two from society. That is the moral duty of a citizen who truly cares about stopping a serious crime like rape. Blogging about some guy we all know you already don't like because "lol bottomless wine glass" is weak shit. IF Shermer is a rapist, then PZ coming forward on his blog has done nothing to stop this supposed serial rapist from raping. Filing a police report, on the other hand... But then, the police do tend to be so unsympathetic, what with asking for evidence and all.

[Konrad_Cruze]

Ugh. The republicans took the senate, so we're likely to go through 2 years of non-stop Obama impeachment hearings that won't actually go anywhere. On the plus side though, that will keep them occupied and so they probably won't have time to do much real damage.

No offence but I've never understood the US system. What is the fucking point of a President who can't get anything through senate or congress. And what is the fucking point of a senate and a congress that just gets vetoed by the president. Fuck it why don't you just disband the whole government for 2 years for all the good they will do.

2 years of stagnation. 2 years of waiting for Obama to be kicked out. I just don't get it.

[comhcinc]

Or maybe one of these:

I will not take part of your attacks on Zoe Quinn. :whistle:

[bovarchist]

So I've been reading this great book during my lunch break - Two Years Before the Mast, by Richard Henry Dana - which you can download for free from Project Gutenberg (or from Amazon if you have a Kindle/Kindle App) because it was first published in 1840. Dana enlisted as a common sailor on the brig Pilgrim, and returned to Boston on the Alert, after sailing around Cape Horn to California. I think some other 'Pitters would enjoy it - I've had to look up many of the sailing terms, since I don't typically read sailing/sea books, but it's still an entertaining read.

He also wrote a sequel - The Mast :rimshot:

(sorry, channeling my inner Norm MacDonald)

[Guest]

Huh, to me the million dollar challenge is the thing he is known for since the Johny Carson days. Any way I am looking forward to watching it.If anyone else would like to see it I can point you to where you can get it. Just pm me.

So am I the only poor sucker here who forked over $30 for a pre-ordered digital download of An Honest Liar? There seems to be no indication as to when it will be released and I'm starting to wonder if Randi has absconded with my money.

Send an email asking for an update on the release date. The film clearly already exists and has been shown at various film festivals

Too late

It screened on UK TV BBC4 and is availeble for download http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... and-frauds

It's also on youtube.

[Snapfingers]

Whoever started this Michael Nugent parody account needs to get an IQ and a sense of humour very quickly. It's a pile of crap. Obviously American with the spelling of apologize, so I'm calling it a horde production, although it really isn't clear if they are trying to work for or against Nugent. Really weak guyz, 1/10 must do better.

http://i.imgur.com/TDeG0va.png

Found the comic.

http://i.imgur.com/FxikD5Y.png

Good find: This does actually make Mickthesealion funnier.

[comhcinc]

Ugh. The republicans took the senate, so we're likely to go through 2 years of non-stop Obama impeachment hearings that won't actually go anywhere. On the plus side though, that will keep them occupied and so they probably won't have time to do much real damage.

No offence but I've never understood the US system. What is the fucking point of a President who can't get anything through senate or congress. And what is the fucking point of a senate and a congress that just gets vetoed by the president. Fuck it why don't you just disband the whole government for 2 years for all the good they will do.

2 years of stagnation. 2 years of waiting for Obama to be kicked out. I just don't get it.

The system has been corrupted. I don't mean that in the "politicians are evil assholes" sense. I mean it in the standard "things have been changed and don't work right anymore" way.

The way the system was envisioned the President wasn't really suppose to do anything. He was just the guy that made sure that the laws that were enacted by congress. While there has been movement away from that going all the way back to Andrew Jackson, the way the presidency works now can be traced back to Teddy Roosevelt. He is the one who turned it into the "bully pulpit" in which the president sets an agenda.
The senate was originally chosen not by popular vote but by state legislatures. When that changed it throw the whole system out of wack.

The president has always had veto power but it has rarely been used. A veto can be overturned by a two thirds vote in congress.

[bovarchist]

Oh good god:

Like many West Africans, I was aghast when I saw the picture of what Jamie Olivier tried to pass off as Jollof rice. Twitter was set ablaze by the B1aijQDCEAApYGlrighteous fury of West Africans, protesting the audacity of an international white celebrity chef, who dared to plagiarised (and badly so too), West Africa’s much beloved dish, Jollof Rice. To an outsider, this might seem like much ado about nothing, but hey jollof rice is not just any rice, it is a national treasure, a national signature, and as #Jollofgate fury has proved, it is an African pride.

link: http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... ollofgate/

:snooty:

For fuck sake! It's rice and tomato paste. I ate it for 4 years. It's tasty but it's no big deal. They'll manufacture outrage about anything.

People get antsy about their local specialities. Try telling a Nova Scotian that Lunenberg Sausage tastes like a condom stuffed with cigarette ashes and black pepper.

[comhcinc]

So am I the only poor sucker here who forked over $30 for a pre-ordered digital download of An Honest Liar? There seems to be no indication as to when it will be released and I'm starting to wonder if Randi has absconded with my money.

Send an email asking for an update on the release date. The film clearly already exists and has been shown at various film festivals

Too late

It screened on UK TV BBC4 and is availeble for download http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... and-frauds

It's also on youtube.

Except of course that they are two different things.

[Kirbmarc]

I get what you are saying but I disagree. Telling someone "you better watch what you say or the Irish speech police will come and get ya" is a silencing tactic. I am against silencing tactics. Let people say what they want. Let people say what they want. You don't have to give them a platform (like inviting them to your convention) but you shouldn't take their platform away (like PZ's ugly looking, ad riddled blog)

I read it more as "PZ, do you even have a sense of decency anymore? Do you even know that your behavior would be considered a crime in my nation? Do you understand that if I wanted I could sue you? I won't, and I don't want want to, but this should make you understand why I asked you not to name names. This is a serious matter, not entertaining gossip. Please think about it."

Again, I don't want PZ to be sued, but I think that he should be made aware that someone else could. It's also not mainly for PZ's sake (because let's face it, Myers doesn't really care), but for others reading Nugent's blog. Nugent now has enough evidence to say that Myers could be sued for libel. It shows that Myers has no qualms about potentially committing crimes when he's fighting an ideological enemy.

I'm all for letting Myers say whatever he wants, but I'm also all for showing others how unethical his methods are. Saying "in my country this would actually be considered a crime" is one way of doing it.

[Konrad_Cruze]

To your first pont: a single person publicly saying they won't support MN or his org anymore because of what Myers said would be enough, I suppose. And IIRC, it has already happened (too lazy to search it right now).

Second point: I'm quite sure if there was a judgment decision and Myers didn't honor it (for jurisdiction, I guess?), then him setting foot in Ireland may very well put him in a bit of a kerfuffle.

I am no lawyer either, but that's how I see it. Which means nothing until a lawyer steps in to clarify. It's just idle thinking-out-loud.

If you are correct and a single person is all it takes to claim damage that is just down right scary. That means that any comment made by anyone about anything could be considered libel. No, I don't think it's that bad even in Europe.

In the States I do know that the courts have no way of imposing a civil fine on an person. You could sue me for libel for example, you frog eating pounce, and win and that doesn't mean a hill of beans if you don't know where my money is.

Its not just damage which is relevant for libel. For a statement not to be libel it must either be true or be a reasonable opinion and must be stated as such. PZ making a factual statement which cannot be backed up with evidence is therefore libel. Now with regards to free speech. People love rights. I have the right to do this, I have the right to do that . What people don't generally like is the responsibility that comes with them. Why for example should your freedom of speech trump my right to go about my life without you spreading lies about me and deliberately trashing my rep simply because you don't like me. Libel has a lot of caveats. You have the right to say any thing you want so long as it is true or a reasonable opinion. You Don't have the right to lie and trash me.

We all like our individual rights and we all want to protect them, what we generally don't think about is the rights of others that get trampled under our own rights.

[comhcinc]

I read it more as "PZ, do you even have a sense of decency anymore? Do you even know that your behavior would be considered a crime in my nation? Do you understand that if I wanted I could sue you? I won't, and I don't want want to, but this should make you understand why I asked you not to name names. This is a serious matter, not entertaining gossip. Please think about it."

Again, I don't want PZ to be sued, but I think that he should be made aware that someone else could. It's also not mainly for PZ's sake (because let's face it, Myers doesn't really care), but for others reading Nugent's blog. Nugent now has enough evidence to say that Myers could be sued for libel. It shows that Myers has no qualms about potentially committing crimes when he's fighting an ideological enemy.

I'm all for letting Myers say whatever he wants, but I'm also all for showing others how unethical his methods are. Saying "in my country this would actually be considered a crime" is one way of doing it.

In some countries I not being a muslim would be illegal. Using unethical laws (which I honestly feel European libel laws are) to say someone is unethical is a bad argument.

Of course you might not find those laws to be unethical and that is fine. I am not saying my opinion on this has to be right. Just understand that you are using really bad logic there.

[Konrad_Cruze]

Ugh. The republicans took the senate, so we're likely to go through 2 years of non-stop Obama impeachment hearings that won't actually go anywhere. On the plus side though, that will keep them occupied and so they probably won't have time to do much real damage.

No offence but I've never understood the US system. What is the fucking point of a President who can't get anything through senate or congress. And what is the fucking point of a senate and a congress that just gets vetoed by the president. Fuck it why don't you just disband the whole government for 2 years for all the good they will do.

2 years of stagnation. 2 years of waiting for Obama to be kicked out. I just don't get it.

The system has been corrupted. I don't mean that in the "politicians are evil assholes" sense. I mean it in the standard "things have been changed and don't work right anymore" way.

The way the system was envisioned the President wasn't really suppose to do anything. He was just the guy that made sure that the laws that were enacted by congress. While there has been movement away from that going all the way back to Andrew Jackson, the way the presidency works now can be traced back to Teddy Roosevelt. He is the one who turned it into the "bully pulpit" in which the president sets an agenda.
The senate was originally chosen not by popular vote but by state legislatures. When that changed it throw the whole system out of wack.

The president has always had veto power but it has rarely been used. A veto can be overturned by a two thirds vote in congress.

So you are saying that the president was originally like a constitutional monarch like we have in britain? I know this will not go down well particularly with the yanks but if you want someone in that position then have them as an elected official is not going to work. All that happens is what we see. The position becomes political and does not work in it's proper function.