Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

Old subthreads
Nec_V20
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64261

Post by Nec_V20 »

Tapir wrote:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote: And yet,somehow, here you are still alive. Who are the "you" you refer to? How the fuck do you know that I can't accept you since I haven't said anything to you? What percentage of the Pit has given you any grief despite your babbling on about your problem, which most people don't give a fuck about because it isn't relevant. You do realise that the humour police and button pushing bullies don't actually run this place?
Hold fire....I think Nec was responding to PZ's words rather than Brive's.
I was indeed replying to the quote Brive had with regard to PZ and I thought I was clear about that at the time. I see now though where someone could have thought that the reply was ambivalent and I abase myself for that.

I thank you Tapir for giving me the benefit of the doubt on this one. It was my fault because I read my post in the way I had meant it, and of course did not see the error of the possible ambiguity of the post

A+ in general, and PZ in particular, likes to adopt the mantle of humanism although it seems that not every person is a human deserving of his or their "ism". From the decline in the amounts of hits on their sites it appears that ever more people are being declared Untermenschen by PZ and his A+ buddies.

Nec_V20
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64262

Post by Nec_V20 »

Nec_V20 wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:I think the term you are struggling with PZ is "secular humanism"

Nice to see A Plus has become an epistemological thought bubble for FtB as well.
There was a workshop about Atheism+, and the inevitable question about what makes it different from humanism came up. For me, it’s an issue of epistemology. Humanism is about promoting cooperation and mutual aid among communities of human beings, without concern for why — you can be Christian or secular and a humanist. My humanism, though, is derived as a consequence of my atheism. The absence of a deity imposes on me an obligation to find values elsewhere, and has led to a convergence with humanist principles.
No, actually humanism is just simply about acceptance. It is something that they cannot do on A+ and something I have discovered that you cannot do here either.

A+ is like the Inquisition burning the heretics, here it is like the Lord of the Flies where any observed weakness results in a death sentence.

You both do the same thing, you just do it from different perspectives.
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:And yet,somehow, here you are still alive. Who are the "you" you refer to? How the fuck do you know that I can't accept you since I haven't said anything to you? What percentage of the Pit has given you any grief despite your babbling on about your problem, which most people don't give a fuck about because it isn't relevant. You do realise that the humour police and button pushing bullies don't actually run this place?
See reply to Tapir above.

Nec_V20
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64263

Post by Nec_V20 »

Southern wrote:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
And yet,somehow, here you are still alive. Who are the "you" you refer to? How the fuck do you know that I can't accept you since I haven't said anything to you? What percentage of the Pit has given you any grief despite your babbling on about your problem, which most people don't give a fuck about because it isn't relevant. You do realise that the humour police and button pushing bullies don't actually run this place?
Maybe Nec and Damon could get together and blabber all day about how the Slymepit is exactly like FTB and how they're superior to both because they're geniuses.
See reply to Tapir above.

Keating

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64264

Post by Keating »

guest wrote:Scientists at a gender equity in science conference (staying at the same Canberra hotel as Rebecca Watson) discover that divas make it difficult for room service.
At the risk of doxing myself…

Watson is in Canberra? That's where I live. I had no idea there were any vaguely atheist / sceptic events on this week though, and I usually try to keep abreast of stuff happening here.

Michael J
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64265

Post by Michael J »

Keating wrote:
guest wrote:Scientists at a gender equity in science conference (staying at the same Canberra hotel as Rebecca Watson) discover that divas make it difficult for room service.
At the risk of doxing myself…

Watson is in Canberra? That's where I live. I had no idea there were any vaguely atheist / sceptic events on this week though, and I usually try to keep abreast of stuff happening here.
It was the SGU having a live show with George Hrab. There is a hashtag #sgulive . Interesting that Watson is in one photo but a couple of photos show Watson not present on stage (Late perhaps?). Also looking at Watson's tweets and some other random photos, it looks like she isn't hanging with the rest of the SGU crowd.

zenbabe
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64266

Post by zenbabe »


:lol:

Goddammit.
The Karma Fairy is laughing at me. Extra things to read when I don't have the time because reasons and work so I can't even find spoons or knives.

Guesthouse

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64267

Post by Guesthouse »

didymos wrote:
Jackie the social justice WIZZARD!!!

24 November 2014 at 10:22 pm

There are racist pieces of shit defending this travesty?

You’re less than scum, you racist filth. Get back under the rock you crawled out from under.

They’re chanting, “No justice, no peace!”

I hope they’re right. I hope nothing stops these protests and I hope they spread.
Yeah, people getting injured, possibly killed, and businesses being burned down, with the consequent loss of of livelihoods for numerous people is pretty great. We absolutely need more of that because JUSTICE.
Sure it's cool to say that when it's not Jackie's home neighborhood getting torched.

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64268

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

Has the American Astronomical Association issued a statement on the rioting yet?

As an ignorant European I don't know the rights and the wrongs of it without hearing the AAS line.

- Shatterface

Kirbmarc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64269

Post by Kirbmarc »

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Tapir wrote:http://i.imgur.com/kVimJgp.jpg

He really is a complete fuckwit.

Drowning in affected white guilt while the horde squeals for the banning of anyone who dares suggest the Ferguson shooting was anything other than a racist execution.
PZ Myers and his ilk never trust the authorities as a policy. They don't report allegations of rape, they don't trust the justice system, they don't trust the ideas of "innocent until proven guilty" or of "freedom of speech".

The SJWs want to change the laws so that all their "enemies", all the "people without empathy" will lose their jobs, freedom or life. The ideas of due process, democracy, freedom of speech, equal sentences for equal crimes and personal responsibility are all in the way of the Glorious Empathetic Utopia, where everyone's feelings are the most important standard of judgment, unless they disagree with the SJW dogmas.

Twits like Geordie Tait say what many other SJWs think. Their "righteous anger" is, ultimately, the same anger that motivated dogmatic bigots in all ages and all times. In the SJW utopia "unprivileged" are free to steal ("Just like Robin Hood!"), insult everyone they want ("You're not allowed to police their language!"), and attack white hetero cis middle class dudebros ("Punching up!") at will. The dudebros can't react, otherwise they're racist/sexist/ableist/homophobic/transphobic, etc.

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64270

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

didymos wrote:Man, they're having a grand ol' moralizing time on the Ferguson thread on Pharyngula. They absolutely relish any opportunity to display how righteous they all are.
Has it escalated to 'genocide' yet?

Not 'racism' or any of that wussy stuff, but an actual programme of extermination?

That was the gist of the Robin Williams thread.

- Shatterface

Hunt
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64271

Post by Hunt »

Getting slightly off-the-wall on the Ferguson thread. For once I'm actually looking forward to PZ waking up and cleaning this mess up.

http://web.archive.org/web/201411251123 ... urprising/
Argent Zendik
25 November 2014 at 4:25 am
@jamesrussellthe3rd
No lie, I would smile if somebody shot you.
But I’d still want them to go on trial for it.

CuntajusRationality
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64272

Post by CuntajusRationality »

BlueShiftRhino wrote:
CuntajusRationality wrote:
BlueShiftRhino wrote:It is abundantly clear - to me, at least, given Myers' sexual orientation and the entire comment as a package - that Myers was speaking of women. So, while you are correct that he didn't say it, himself, in no uncertain words, I don't think that those of us who have interpreted Myers as having admitted to treating his female students differently from his male students are wrong.
You are welcome to your interpretation, and it's a very reasonable one at that. But I'm not intending to argue about the validity of the interpretation, so much as I am suggesting that we all ought to be more careful about clearly and explicitly distinguishing between interpretations or opinions (about which sane and reasonable people may sometimes disagree) as opposed to objective and verifiable facts (such as the actual words that Myers wrote). As well-informed and well-founded as they may be (or feel), interpretations and opinions might well be wrong.

Just adding an "IMO" or something similar is all it takes, and it goes a long way, at least for people who pay close attention to these sorts of things. Not doing so is very likely to lead to confusion and misunderstanding, or worse. Frankly, it forces people to wonder whether the person has their facts mixed up, or genuinely doesn't understand their interpretation is not fact, or understands that but just isn't making it clear, or is a liar or troll, etc. Just adding a small disclaimer or clarifier can circumvent that. I would go further and argue that it's best to use direct quotes rather than relying on subjective interpretations in the first place.

With like-minded people this may not be such an issue, but it definitely is when dealing with people who are likely to have different points of view. Just my two cents.
More than fair, such that a smart person would cease typing now.

At the risky of looking like a whiny bitch, may I request that when you counter someone else's interpretation, you not present an isolated quote, especially not one with a lead sentence - that might be crucial - missing. That's part of what I reacted so strongly to ... the suggestion that I leapt to my conclusion from only the part that you quote.
That's a fair request and one I will make a point of keeping in mind. Though I will point out that I provided a link back to the original comment so that everyone could verify and see the full context for themselves.

In this instance, the rest of the quote didn't matter in terms of the point I was intending to make, which did not involve trying to counter anyone's interpretation at all. I realize that point wasn't exactly clear given my first comment on this, so my apologies for that.

Cliché Guevara
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64273

Post by Cliché Guevara »

I'm trying to find news about whatever's happening in Ferguson, but all I see are encomiums to Robin Williams everywhere.

Southern
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64274

Post by Southern »

Guestus Aurelius wrote:Wow, I can't believe the commenters over at Nugent's allowed Andy to so easily hijack the thread.
The commenters at Nugent's are easy trollable people. That's why I don't go over there, it's so easy, I may not resist enacting the labor of properly trolling the place into oblivion.

Hunt
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64275

Post by Hunt »

Well, maybe I didn't give jamesrussellthe3rd enough credit. He might still be a racist (it's not like anti-SJW and racist are mutually exclusive), but he does demonstrate a high order of trolling at its best:
(not included in the archive page above)
jamesrussellthe3rd
25 November 2014 at 5:41 am
@Seven of Mine
“How exactly does you being serious about any of this make you any less pathetic for threatening total strangers with it because they…what? Because they disagree with you? What we’re doing is so useless and yet here you are boasting about how very very tough and dangerous you are trying to get us to stop all this nothing we’re doing.”
There’s a reason people take the piss out of internet SJWs and not social workers/community organisers/paramedics/employment consultants/mental health workers – it’s precisely because you do nothing tangibly useful at all. Now, generally this isn’t grounds for most of the hate that SJWs get. After all, there’s lots of people who do pretty much fuck all but don’t get half the venom thrown at them as you lot do. The reason is that your self-appointment as moral arbiters, your hair-trigger (oops) ability to take offence at the most ridiculous things, and your propensity to revel in your own arrogance and unjustifiably claim that you’re “fighting” for social change while (as amply demonstrated above) you sit in your flat, on your computer, in the warmth with some relaxing indie music playing in the background responding seriously to piss-takers like me reminds the vast majority of people of the thing you rail most stridently against – religious prosletysers.
You can’t deny the similarities. The ease of taking offence. The unshakable belief that you have the one true moral foundation from which everyone should base their actions. The attitude that, due to this pure morality, you have the right to silence those who disagree with you. And, most importantly, the all important bogeyman from which all the evils of the world spring and which, if defeated, will usher in a new era of peace and tranquillity – the straight, white man!
You guys are the new Puritans. You just have better IT skills and very good marketing.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64276

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

BlueShiftRhino wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:How dare we exonerate police officers who kill in self-defense when attacked by a robber!
Um, you do know that Wilson has said that he did not know that Brown was a suspected robber when he shot him, yes? Or are you suggesting that some pieces of knowledge can go back in time and provide the needed state of mind required for justifiable homicide?
1) But did Brown suspect the cop knew?
2) It informs us as Brown's state of mind and general contempt for the rule of law;
3) From the CCTV of the robbery, we see that Brown was a physically imposing figure, who used his bulk aggressively.

All these points, not to mention the forensics, indicate that Brown's action, not his skin color, precipitated the incident that led to his death. That the SJWs can only see 'a young black man' shows them to be the real racists.

Brive1987
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64277

Post by Brive1987 »

Keating wrote:
guest wrote:Scientists at a gender equity in science conference (staying at the same Canberra hotel as Rebecca Watson) discover that divas make it difficult for room service.
At the risk of doxing myself…

Watson is in Canberra? That's where I live. I had no idea there were any vaguely atheist / sceptic events on this week though, and I usually try to keep abreast of stuff happening here.
It's oddly quaint seeing Watson bag Canberra, like she's discovered some new truth.

:mrgreen:

Southern
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64278

Post by Southern »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:http://i.imgur.com/0fdhZNV.png
Next time you see one of the pigs, Peezus, be sure to tell him on the face how you feel about their ilk, how you can't tollerate their stench, and how you will stab them if just one pig do as much as look at you wrong.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/new ... 1318992465

Kirbmarc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64279

Post by Kirbmarc »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
BlueShiftRhino wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:How dare we exonerate police officers who kill in self-defense when attacked by a robber!
Um, you do know that Wilson has said that he did not know that Brown was a suspected robber when he shot him, yes? Or are you suggesting that some pieces of knowledge can go back in time and provide the needed state of mind required for justifiable homicide?
1) But did Brown suspect the cop knew?
2) It informs us as Brown's state of mind and general contempt for the rule of law;
3) From the CCTV of the robbery, we see that Brown was a physically imposing figure, who used his bulk aggressively.

All these points, not to mention the forensics, indicate that Brown's action, not his skin color, precipitated the incident that led to his death. That the SJWs can only see 'a young black man' shows them to be the real racists.
There's more:
Wilson said he had heard that someone had stolen cigarillos from the nearby Ferguson Market just before he saw two young men walking in the middle of the street, disrupting traffic.

He said that after he asked the two to move onto the sidewalk, one said, "F*** what you have to say," as they passed him.

"When he said that, it drew my attention totally to Brown," he said. "It was a very unusual and not expected response from a simple request."

Then he noticed that Brown was carrying packages of cigarillos, which had been reported stolen, he said.
So, according to Wilson, the incident happened this way:

-Wilson hears that someone has stolen cigarillos from the Ferguson Market

-He notices two young men in the middle of the street and tells them to move onto the sidewalk

-Brown tells him to fuck off

-Wilson notices that Brown is carrying cigarillos: he therefore reasonably suspects that he might be the thief he heard about

-Wilson stops his car to prevent Brown and the other young man walking with him to get away

-He tries to open the door of his car, Brown slams it shut

-This happens multiple times; Brown acts in a menacing way and punches him

-Wilson fears being trapped in his police car and being attacked by Brown;

-He draws his gun, Brown wrestles with him for the gun, presses it against Wilson's hip, threatens him

-First two bullets shot, Brown grazed

-Brown runs away, Wilson steps out of the car, orders him to stop

-Brown turns around and charges him, Wilson fears for his life, shoots Brown, Brown dies.

Forensics and apparently some witnesses back up Wilson's story. Other witnesses say that Brown raised his hands and was surrendering but Wilson shot him execution style. Forensics doesn't seem to provide evidence for this version of the facts.

guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64280

Post by guest »

Michael J wrote:
Keating wrote:
guest wrote:Scientists at a gender equity in science conference (staying at the same Canberra hotel as Rebecca Watson) discover that divas make it difficult for room service.
At the risk of doxing myself…

Watson is in Canberra? That's where I live. I had no idea there were any vaguely atheist / sceptic events on this week though, and I usually try to keep abreast of stuff happening here.
It was the SGU having a live show with George Hrab. There is a hashtag #sgulive . Interesting that Watson is in one photo but a couple of photos show Watson not present on stage (Late perhaps?). Also looking at Watson's tweets and some other random photos, it looks like she isn't hanging with the rest of the SGU crowd.
[/b]
(The venue at JCM only holds 200 people)

George Hrab hasn't been flavor of the month with the Skepchick for some time now: [/b]

Brive1987 wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Help request. Has anyone filed away the FB George Hrab screen grab of his views on PZ and Rebecca? Thanks in advance. :)
I enacted the labour to track it down.

http://nobodygetsoffended.wordpress.com ... orge-hrab/

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64281

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

bovarchist wrote:PZ no longer considers cops his friend. I'm sure they all felt a little chill. They've never come up against anything like PZ before!
Peez and his ride are MF cop killahz! Or MF Morris North Star vandalizers. Something like that.

Kirbmarc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64282

Post by Kirbmarc »

PZ Myers wrote:I don’t like Islam, I don’t like any religion, and I think all of them do harm to their adherents…but I don’t think the solution is to declare war on people who believe
Just on the ones who pray for you when you're about to die.

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64283

Post by comhcinc »

I am going to say this about the Micheal Brown thing and then I am going to go back to my normal gif posting.

All the reports about the incident that I heard seem to suggest there the police may have acted in a way that was illegal. There has been a lot of racial tension in the area. A Grand Jury info is kept secret until after the fact.

Taking all that into account if I would have been on that grand jury I was have voted to take the case to trial no matter what the evidence showed. Let the facts be put out there for everyone to see and hopefully that would reveal some of the tension.

Wild Zontargs
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64284

Post by Wild Zontargs »

For anyone who cares, here are the relesed transcripts and evidence from the Ferguson grand jury. Rather than playing "but I heard X on the news months ago", you might want to check them out. Turns out that much of what made the news was pure, unadulterated bullshit.

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64285

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

Just wondering who's side Peezus would be on if the cops shot a rape suspect.

I mean, a rape suspect is guilty isn't he? And we know he can't be put on trial because rape culture will get him off.

Shatterface

Tapir
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64286

Post by Tapir »

Wild Zontargs wrote:For anyone who cares, here are the relesed transcripts and evidence from the Ferguson grand jury. Rather than playing "but I heard X on the news months ago", you might want to check them out. Turns out that much of what made the news was pure, unadulterated bullshit.
Why won't you just Listen and Believe, shitlord?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64287

Post by Tribble »

Lsuoma wrote:Darren Wilson not being charged with anything for killing Michael Brown.

I'm curious, did you listen to the live-stream press conference where the DA went over the whole case? (This is not an indictment or assumption of any position you may or may not have.)

The problem with 'poor Dan Brown' we're going to be getting over the next few days (riots, lootings, etc.) is that the evidence showed Wilson's story to be correct and that the 'TV witnesses' were problematic. Some of them never saw what happened and just repeated rumors. Many of them changed their stories multiple times. Some just made shit up. Only a few witnesses had consistent stories that were corroborated by the physical evidence at the scene. And they weren't the 'TV witnesses.'

Add in the usual provocateurs that exploit stuff like this. And the shit-stains that use events like this to misbehave... Well, St. Louis is going to be having troubles the next few days.

As for the verdict, the DA has released all the evidence. For those Sherlocks who think they're smarter than the 12 jurors who took in hundreds of hours of testimony and saw all the evidence, have at it.

Or, we can just read what PZ Myers has to say about it and preach the gospel of 'Poor Dan Brown -- Gunned Down by the Evil White Patriarchy." I'm sure a scientist of his enormous cross-field capabilities can tell us everything we need to know.

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64288

Post by Tribble »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:Darren Wilson not being charged with anything for killing Michael Brown.
Only in the US of A, where a young black man can be murdered for simply being a young black man, who happened to have just robbed a convenience store, who was resisting arrest, and who attempted to tackle a cop and take his gun.
Shame on us.

That was good.

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64289

Post by Tribble »

James Caruthers wrote:
tina wrote:Does this image of Greta, at a previous Skepticon, sexually objectify women or empower and celebrate their sexuality?

Or did it just miss getting put on Matts shirt?

Wotevver. Greta thinks "I am officially, at age 48, hotter than I have ever been in my life. "Do not fuck with me. This basement is where I take people who try to tell me about Pascal’s Wager."

:whistle:
What is it about feminism and self-delusion that mate so well?
She could have been worse when she was younger. It could be an improvement. It's not likely. But if she was some smell, un-washed, greasy-haired fatty, this could easily be an improvement.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64290

Post by bovarchist »

Anybody see Megan Fox go off the rails? She sounds so much like one of Myers' furious little cinnamon buns it's uncanny.

[youtube]32mxZxv3dYM[/youtube]

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64291

Post by Tribble »

jugheadnaut wrote:
BlueShiftRhino wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:How dare we exonerate police officers who kill in self-defense when attacked by a robber!
Um, you do know that Wilson has said that he did not know that Brown was a suspected robber when he shot him, yes? Or are you suggesting that some pieces of knowledge can go back in time and provide the needed state of mind required for justifiable homicide?
In his grand jury testimony, released after the decision, Wilson says he had identified Brown as a suspect in the robbery.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-darre ... d=27156510
The evidence was released by the St. Louis County prosecutor Monday evening after the grand jury declined to indict Wilson.

Wilson said he had heard that someone had stolen cigarillos from the nearby Ferguson Market just before he saw two young men walking in the middle of the street, disrupting traffic.

He said that after he asked the two to move onto the sidewalk, one said, "F*** what you have to say," as they passed him.

"When he said that, it drew my attention totally to Brown," he said. "It was a very unusual and not expected response from a simple request."

Then he noticed that Brown was carrying packages of cigarillos, which had been reported stolen, he said.
I started to respond, but then I figured I get ninja'd.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64292

Post by BlueShiftRhino »

James Caruthers wrote:The cops are actually being really reasonable as far as I can tell. I've got a police scanner open and a livestream running, haven't seen anything unreasonable yet.

Meanwhile, I've seen looting, setting buildings on fire, shooting guns, toting guns, stealing, throwing trash, flash mobbing buildings to better loot them...

Over 100 cars in the lot of the being-looted-as-we-speak Toys R Us.

I have a hell of a lot more sympathy for the cops in this situation (a lot of fire and emergency services are refusing to enter the area to fight fires or tend to wounded because of the armed looters, of which there have been many) than the SJWs and race-baiters inciting violence. One protestor got his phone stolen by another protestor and blamed it on the police. Posted it on Twatter and made it part of Official Ferguson Narrative.
I'm calmer now (and no longer drunk). Sorry about last night. But the black-and-white (pun intended) approach to all this is really sad. Save that for the internet squabbles. The police have a difficult job to do, but some are clearly assholes. The protestors are rightfully upset, but some are mere selfish thieves. The prosecutor is an incompetent jerk. Stay tuned for Holder to make it worse.

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64293

Post by comhcinc »


katamari Damassi
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64294

Post by katamari Damassi »

Skep tickle wrote:Like any situation in which 2 sides differ vehemently on what happened, there may be at least a grain of truth in each's version. I don't feel like I know enough about the shooting of Michael Brown to come to a conclusion one way or another.

Sure seems like body cameras on cops would allow for a more objective view, after the fact, for both sides or all sides to examine & at least have something firmer to hold onto when trying to discuss what happened.

The privacy intrusion aspect does concern me, though (esp for passersby, those found not to be in violation of any law, etc). There's a discussion planned soon at work about this, as some patients arrive with a police escort, & before too long those escorts may be wearing cameras.

[anecdote so take this with a grain of salt] I recall a traffic stop in Texas that made the news a few years ago. A sweet little old grandmother had gone on TV news to tell the sad tale of how she'd been unjustly assaulted by a police officer...only it turns out the officer's dash-cam had been on the whole time and showed the situation escalating over about 15 minutes as the woman refused to cooperate: she argued with the officer, refused to comply with his requests, threatened to get out her gun (but didn't), then got out of her truck & tried to walk away along the side of the highway, then (as I recall) pushed him when he tried to stop her. At each step he maintained a polite professional demeanor and appeared to only do what he had to do to maintain safety, to try to get her to cooperate, & to use the least force needed to subdue her when she got physical with him. I found the video to be quite impressive in its ability to convey the fly-on-the-wall's view of the event as it unfolded. (And of course it would just as readily have shown the version she told on TV to be accurate, if that's how it had really happened.) [/anecdote]
That's why I trust the grand jury decision. They had information that I and the rioters, protestors, and SJW's did not. Except for PZ because Carrie Poppy told him that Wilson totally raped Brown, before shooting him.
Body cams seem like a good idea, protects the public from rogue cops and protects cops from accusations of brutality.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64295

Post by Tribble »

comhcinc wrote:I am going to say this about the Micheal Brown thing and then I am going to go back to my normal gif posting.

All the reports about the incident that I heard seem to suggest there the police may have acted in a way that was illegal. There has been a lot of racial tension in the area. A Grand Jury info is kept secret until after the fact.

Taking all that into account if I would have been on that grand jury I was have voted to take the case to trial no matter what the evidence showed. Let the facts be put out there for everyone to see and hopefully that would reveal some of the tension.
There are no credible reports that suggest the police have acted illegally. None whatsoever. You have written one of stupidest comments in this forum on any hot-button subject I have ever red.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64296

Post by BlueShiftRhino »

bovarchist wrote:
BlueShiftRhino wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:How dare we exonerate police officers who kill in self-defense when attacked by a robber!
Um, you do know that Wilson has said that he did not know that Brown was a suspected robber when he shot him, yes? Or are you suggesting that some pieces of knowledge can go back in time and provide the needed state of mind required for justifiable homicide?
Did Wilson know if Brown was punching him in the face and trying to take his gun?
Again with the black-and-white thinking, this time in the form of whataboutery. Your response is non-sequitur. If it was meant to in any way counter the specifics of what I wrote, it was a fallacious attempt.

Or do we not care about only using relevant information when arguing about stuff in real life? Do we only use the anal rules of logic for internet squabbles?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64297

Post by Tribble »

Wild Zontargs wrote:For anyone who cares, here are the relesed transcripts and evidence from the Ferguson grand jury. Rather than playing "but I heard X on the news months ago", you might want to check them out. Turns out that much of what made the news was pure, unadulterated bullshit.

THIS. 100X THIS. The evidence backed up Wilson. The TV Hype was just bullshit with many of the people just making shit up because they could.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64298

Post by katamari Damassi »

Tribble wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:Darren Wilson not being charged with anything for killing Michael Brown.

I'm curious, did you listen to the live-stream press conference where the DA went over the whole case? (This is not an indictment or assumption of any position you may or may not have.)

The problem with 'poor Dan Brown' we're going to be getting over the next few days (riots, lootings, etc.) is that the evidence showed Wilson's story to be correct and that the 'TV witnesses' were problematic. Some of them never saw what happened and just repeated rumors. Many of them changed their stories multiple times. Some just made shit up. Only a few witnesses had consistent stories that were corroborated by the physical evidence at the scene. And they weren't the 'TV witnesses.'

Add in the usual provocateurs that exploit stuff like this. And the shit-stains that use events like this to misbehave... Well, St. Louis is going to be having troubles the next few days.

As for the verdict, the DA has released all the evidence. For those Sherlocks who think they're smarter than the 12 jurors who took in hundreds of hours of testimony and saw all the evidence, have at it.

Or, we can just read what PZ Myers has to say about it and preach the gospel of 'Poor Dan Brown -- Gunned Down by the Evil White Patriarchy." I'm sure a scientist of his enormous cross-field capabilities can tell us everything we need to know.
The patriarchy killed Divinci Code author Dan Brown? Go patriarchy!

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64299

Post by BlueShiftRhino »

jugheadnaut wrote:In his grand jury testimony, released after the decision, Wilson says he had identified Brown as a suspect in the robbery.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-darre ... d=27156510
Yep. I saw that this morning. If you saw that last night before posting, then I apologize, but until that testimony was released, the previous story was that he did not know.

This actually fits the theory that this was a possibly purposefully incompetent presentation (to the grand jury). It's hard not to get an indictment in the first place, but if you have conflicting stories from the accused, it's a slam dunk. If the prosecutor let Wilson tell the new story to the grand jury and did not impeach it, then I'm having a hard time seeing any other possibility than willful incompetence (but, then again, I've been hanging around with Andy "not Adam" Andy a lot and he's taught me the beauty of false dichotomies).

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64300

Post by feathers »

Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering who's side Peezus would be on if the cops shot a rape suspect.
White or black rape suspect?

Anyway, this would all have been less tragical if nobody had died. Perhaps the police should work on their non-lethal defence skills a bit more.

And on their aim. Wilson fired six shots? What the hell was he aiming for if the first five weren't enough to stop Brown?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64301

Post by Tribble »

BlueShiftRhino wrote:
I'm calmer now (and no longer drunk). Sorry about last night. But the black-and-white (pun intended) approach to all this is really sad. Save that for the internet squabbles. The police have a difficult job to do, but some are clearly assholes. The protestors are rightfully upset, but some are mere selfish thieves. The prosecutor is an incompetent jerk. Stay tuned for Holder to make it worse.
Jesus, you're not any more sensible about this issue when you're sober than you're drunk. You don't know how a Grand Jury works. You don't know the basic facts of the case. You sure didn't read it all last night. And I'm guessing you didn't listen to the DA's press conference when he laid out the fact pattern, including all the non-credible (or even lying) 'eyewitness' testimony that was made up, and/or ever-changing and otherwise conflicted with the forensics and that they did have witnesses that verified Wilson's story AND matched the forensics.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/11/ ... index.html

The protestors are NOT rightfully upset unless you consider someone being put on trial for a crime he did not commit as something 'rightful.'

A rightful protest would be in something like the murders of Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, and James Chaney (aka the "Mississippi Burning" murders). Hell, I'm sympathetic to the Rodney King protests (though not the looting, rioting and burning) because I think the all-white jury gave the all-white cops a pass despite the obvious video evidence that showed them going on way, way, way too long with that beating.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64302

Post by BlueShiftRhino »

While you are undoubtedly correct that I am not being rational about this, the following is risible.
Tribble wrote:You don't know how a Grand Jury works.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64303

Post by Tribble »

katamari Damassi wrote: The patriarchy killed Divinci Code author Dan Brown? Go patriarchy!
Yeah, Mike Brown. Somehow I got 'Dan Brown' stuck in my head. Once I posted the post I started wishing for an edit button... But since I'm not part of the SlymePit Illuminati, I don't get one...

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64304

Post by John D »

I predicted that there would be some damage in Furgeson last night, but it was even worse than I thought it would be. My future son-in-law (who is black) thought that there would only be peaceful protests since so much time had passed since the incident. We were both distressed by how crazy it got.

Two Points:

1) I think that there is a need for a "conversation" on blacks and policing. But... the conversation has to be framed as this: What actions must we take to provide blacks the opportunity to embrace the idea that they need to be policed. American black culture is rooted in the idea that blacks do not need to be policed... and that all the problems blacks face are caused by non-blacks.

2) When the cop cars started burning my future-son-in-law says "Hey... you can't show up for a protest with lighter fluid and not use it!" Haha... tragic and funny at the same time.

What to do now... I have no idea.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64305

Post by John D »

Also... for the record. PZ Myers is a fucking idiot!

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64306

Post by comhcinc »

Tribble wrote:
comhcinc wrote:I am going to say this about the Micheal Brown thing and then I am going to go back to my normal gif posting.

All the reports about the incident that I heard seem to suggest there the police may have acted in a way that was illegal. There has been a lot of racial tension in the area. A Grand Jury info is kept secret until after the fact.

Taking all that into account if I would have been on that grand jury I was have voted to take the case to trial no matter what the evidence showed. Let the facts be put out there for everyone to see and hopefully that would reveal some of the tension.
There are no credible reports that suggest the police have acted illegally. None whatsoever. You have written one of stupidest comments in this forum on any hot-button subject I have ever red.
http://i.imgur.com/vLl6zAk.png

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64307

Post by bovarchist »

James Caruthers wrote:The cops are actually being really reasonable as far as I can tell. I've got a police scanner open and a livestream running, haven't seen anything unreasonable yet.

Meanwhile, I've sbeen looting, setting buildings on fire, shooting guns, toting guns, stealing, throwing trash, flash mobbing buildings to better loot them...

Over 100 cars in the lot of the being-looted-as-we-speak Toys R Us.

I have a hell of a lot more sympathy for the cops in this situation (a lot of fire and emergency services are refusing to enter the area to fight fires or tend to wounded because of the armed looters, of which there have been many) than the SJWs and race-baiters inciting violence. One protestor got his phone stolen by another protestor and blamed it on the police. Posted it on Twatter and made it part of Official Ferguson Narrative.
FTFY :rimshot:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64308

Post by Tribble »

BlueShiftRhino wrote:While you are undoubtedly correct that I am not being rational about this, the following is risible.
Tribble wrote:You don't know how a Grand Jury works.
I said something risible. Glad I could entertain you. Yet here I was thinking it was just simple, correctable ignorance, including ignorance of the Grand Jury process. Well, you've set me straight. It wasn't ignorance.

I guess that leaves just plain hubris, social bias and/or, perhaps, simple police-hating-rage, that made you trash the Prosecutor, insinuate the police were criminals by 'cooking' the investigation all while insinuating the Grand Jury (possessing all the facts) got it wrong so the riots are justified. Kind of an SJW/liberal reflexive 'hate the police' reaction.

Silly me. And here I thought you were the kind of person to educate yourself on an issue and wait until you had time to digest all the facts beyond the initial TV hysteria. I stand corrected, you are person who'll pop-off on complex issues like this without getting all the facts first.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64309

Post by Tribble »

comhcinc wrote:
Tribble wrote:
comhcinc wrote:I am going to say this about the Micheal Brown thing and then I am going to go back to my normal gif posting.

All the reports about the incident that I heard seem to suggest there the police may have acted in a way that was illegal. There has been a lot of racial tension in the area. A Grand Jury info is kept secret until after the fact.

Taking all that into account if I would have been on that grand jury I was have voted to take the case to trial no matter what the evidence showed. Let the facts be put out there for everyone to see and hopefully that would reveal some of the tension.
There are no credible reports that suggest the police have acted illegally. None whatsoever. You have written one of stupidest comments in this forum on any hot-button subject I have ever red.
http://i.imgur.com/vLl6zAk.png

No matter how many gifs you post, it's still stupid.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64310

Post by Tribble »

John D wrote:I predicted that there would be some damage in Furgeson last night, but it was even worse than I thought it would be. My future son-in-law (who is black) thought that there would only be peaceful protests since so much time had passed since the incident. We were both distressed by how crazy it got.

Two Points:

1) I think that there is a need for a "conversation" on blacks and policing. But... the conversation has to be framed as this: What actions must we take to provide blacks the opportunity to embrace the idea that they need to be policed. American black culture is rooted in the idea that blacks do not need to be policed... and that all the problems blacks face are caused by non-blacks.

2) When the cop cars started burning my future-son-in-law says "Hey... you can't show up for a protest with lighter fluid and not use it!" Haha... tragic and funny at the same time.

What to do now... I have no idea.
I'm having my wife and daughter stay at home today. My other daughter is in the hospital, which is safe, because she gave birth to a premie (29 1/2 weeks) yesterday. Mother and daughter are doing fine and mom will be going home in a day or two. But daughter will be in the NICU for a few months.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64311

Post by katamari Damassi »

When did the atheist channel at Patheos get so veganny? There's a new blogger called the Human Animal and his first post is how to be a vegan pain in the ass on Thanksgiving.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64312

Post by NoGodsEver »

Check out Jerry Coyne's article this morning about Michael Nugent. I love the last line of it. I wonder who he is taking a dig at there?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64313

Post by comhcinc »

Tribble wrote:

No matter how many gifs you post, it's still stupid.
I understand people, you understand being right on the internet. You think I said something stupid, I don't care what you think.

Your choice now is simple. You can either move on with your life, or make some grandiose show of being right on the internet. Either way doesn't matter really. You will do what you think is most important and I will keep posting funny gifs and we will both have the same amount of affect on the true discourse of the day by our actions. Zero.


meow.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64314

Post by BlueShiftRhino »

Last time I checked, when arguing in a less-than-warm manner, one was only supposed to put quotes around a word (e.g., 'cooking') when the other person actually said or wrote the word. Was this rule changed while I slept?

With that said, I admit to trashing the prosecutor.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64315

Post by bovarchist »

feathers wrote:
Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering who's side Peezus would be on if the cops shot a rape suspect.
White or black rape suspect?

Anyway, this would all have been less tragical if nobody had died. Perhaps the police should work on their non-lethal defence skills a bit more.

And on their aim. Wilson fired six shots? What the hell was he aiming for if the first five weren't enough to stop Brown?
Did you read the autopsy report? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't four of those shots fired while struggling with the gun, and the other three struck Brown in the top of the head as he charged Wilson? Seems like pretty tight shooting to me.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64316

Post by bovarchist »

All the more remarkable that four plus three equals seven. :doh:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64317

Post by bovarchist »

Wait, never mind, I was right the first time. It was seven shots. I retract my doh.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64318

Post by AndrewV69 »

feathers wrote:
Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering who's side Peezus would be on if the cops shot a rape suspect.
White or black rape suspect?

Anyway, this would all have been less tragical if nobody had died. Perhaps the police should work on their non-lethal defence skills a bit more.

And on their aim. Wilson fired six shots? What the hell was he aiming for if the first five weren't enough to stop Brown?
Something tells me that someone has never fired a gun in a combat situation.

Just saying.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64319

Post by AndrewV69 »

bovarchist wrote:Wait, never mind, I was right the first time. It was seven shots. I retract my doh.
Fucking Hell!!!

NEXT TIME USE THE FUCKING EDIT BUTTON. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU???

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#64320

Post by John D »

AndrewV69 wrote:
feathers wrote:
Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering who's side Peezus would be on if the cops shot a rape suspect.
White or black rape suspect?

Anyway, this would all have been less tragical if nobody had died. Perhaps the police should work on their non-lethal defence skills a bit more.

And on their aim. Wilson fired six shots? What the hell was he aiming for if the first five weren't enough to stop Brown?
Something tells me that someone has never fired a gun in a combat situation.

Just saying.
But he watched "Dirty Harry" ten times! He is an expert on handgun accuracy and stopping power!

Locked