Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

Old subthreads
NoGodsEver
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19081

Post by NoGodsEver »

Eskarina wrote:
Really? wrote:
another lurker wrote:
Libertarians always tell me that there is no need for regulation, but that a true free market society with no regulations will be totes great because there is a 'do not harm' principle, or something.

I have never pursued this line of conversation with them, in order to find out more, because I often think that they are just spouting talking points, without thinking it through. Like the idiot who told me that in Libertard Land, there will be no need for courts, or lawyers, and that citizens will volunteer to put people on trial, and that the bad guys will pay off the court costs from jail....

I think that the pit has a couple of Libers, but I haven't seen them in ages. They usually get into big fights with welchie.
Libertarian fire department...

http://media.independent.com/img/photos ... n_t479.jpg
You might want to check out the Ankh-Morporkian Fire-Fighters' Guild:

http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Firefighters%27_Guild

Watch out, you're gonna trigger Lsuoma with that picture.

paddybrown
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19082

Post by paddybrown »

Eskarina wrote:
Really? wrote: Libertarian fire department...

http://media.independent.com/img/photos ... n_t479.jpg
You might want to check out the Ankh-Morporkian Fire-Fighters' Guild:

http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Firefighters%27_Guild
Not to mention a real example, Marcus Licinius Crassus' fire brigade in ancient Rome. If your house was on fire, his team of specially trained operatives would turn up and... refuse to do anything unless you agreed to sell Crassus your house for a pittance. Then they'd put the fire out.

paddybrown
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19083

Post by paddybrown »

paddybrown wrote:
Eskarina wrote:
Really? wrote: Libertarian fire department...

http://media.independent.com/img/photos ... n_t479.jpg
You might want to check out the Ankh-Morporkian Fire-Fighters' Guild:

http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Firefighters%27_Guild
Not to mention a real example, Marcus Licinius Crassus' fire brigade in ancient Rome. If your house was on fire, his team of specially trained operatives would turn up and... refuse to do anything unless you agreed to sell Crassus your house for a pittance. Then they'd put the fire out.
Feck. Ninja'd.

Badger3k
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19084

Post by Badger3k »

Lsuoma wrote:I see Randall Monroe continues his descent into SJWankery:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/friendship.png
So according to that, men and women cannot be friends, nor can two women?

Badger3k
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19085

Post by Badger3k »

paddybrown wrote:
paddybrown wrote:
Eskarina wrote: You might want to check out the Ankh-Morporkian Fire-Fighters' Guild:

http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Firefighters%27_Guild
Not to mention a real example, Marcus Licinius Crassus' fire brigade in ancient Rome. If your house was on fire, his team of specially trained operatives would turn up and... refuse to do anything unless you agreed to sell Crassus your house for a pittance. Then they'd put the fire out.
Feck. Ninja'd.
You could have used cases like this that are a little more recent:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12 ... -fee-again

free thoughtpolice
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19086

Post by free thoughtpolice »

It turns out that notorious anti-muslim bigot and islamophobe Ophelia Benson has a connection to the Chapel Hill shooting?
https://archive.today/LiDco

Southern
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19087

Post by Southern »

Well, I'm trying to get help making the fact that Hick used to watch those twats into something... interesting. Wish me luck.

John D
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19088

Post by John D »

Really? wrote:
jugheadnaut wrote:
The real worst of all possible worlds is the situation where there are public sector workers doing unskilled jobs getting 100K a year with overtime with staggeringly generous pension plans.
Seriously, those goddamn unions with their living wages and safe workplace conditions.

What could really go wrong when you privatize what should be public trusts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
I have worked in the auto industry for 30 years. The unions are a blessing and a curse. For sure the unions did great good to secure a living wage, safety, sick pay... etc...etc...etc... We would certainly be in a world of hurt without them.

The down side is that the unions became a political operation in their own right. Workers elect their union bosses. The bosses make promises to allow the workers to get more and more benefits. Many of these benefits directly reduce productivity. So, for a business, the costs just go up and up. Since unions are not interested in operation efficiency you end up with a business that is staggeringly expensive and produces poor quality.

I didn't really recognize this until I had to work as an engineer in a union plant. Of course, it frosted my ass that I work more hours, had to travel on my own time, had worse health care, worse vacation, and lower pay than the union line workers. No regrets, the union work is mindless and boring. But..... it is the union structure that makes it mindless and boring. They basically make it so that a worker can't get cross trained to do multiple jobs. This breaks the union rules. For example, you can't pay a line worker and extra half hour of pay after the line shuts down to clean the machine. A union paid cleaner has to clean the machine. The worker can't be taught to repair or service his machine. Even if he is smart enough to learn, the repair must be done by a guy who has a special union category. So, the machine operator basically waits while his machine has anything done to it. You can't train him to inspect for quality, clean, do setup, minor repair. Ultimately, the operator just becomes an overpaid button pusher.

I worked with one production line that had a very poor throughput. In order to improve the throughput the company told the crew that they would pay for 600 pieces of production every day. If the crew produced the 600 parts they could go home. Suddenly, the line was producing 600 part in four hours (instead of the prior 10 hours). Haha. If I didn't get to the line before 11:00am I would miss the whole day of production. When I needed to run a few trial parts I would have to shut the line down for ten minutes and then startup the line. Since I was fucking with them they would run extra slow. It was always a 12 hour day...even when I had just one ten minute trial. I would stop the line... tell everyone to wait ten minutes, and they would disappear. It was fucking amazing. Ever single worker would take turns going to the bathroom or getting a phone call, etc. This way they would get paid overtime. They were actually pissed they had to work more than four hours. Haha. You have to understand... these guys made $80k, had a pension, bonuses, and health care.

But... things have changed. I guess the auto industry had to collapse before the labor cost problem could be fixed. Most of the plant guys work pretty well these days. I still see the problem with lack of cross-training and the plethora of classifications. The union is often its own enemy.

TheMan
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19089

Post by TheMan »

Is it true that in Arizona it's legal to pay someone to drop charges pending a court case? Apparently it's called "received satisfaction" and charges are dropped.

MacGruberKnows
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19090

Post by MacGruberKnows »

http://www.atheist-experience.com/scrap ... crew03.jpg

The hairs, they burn like the fires of hell.

Seriously, they are all gingers, they have no souls.

So what did we learn from this: Atheists are people with no souls.


Class dismissed.

Steersman
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19091

Post by Steersman »

free thoughtpolice wrote:It turns out that notorious anti-muslim bigot and islamophobe Ophelia Benson has a connection to the Chapel Hill shooting?
https://archive.today/LiDco
Awesome. From her post:
Ophelia Benson! wrote:It’s been becoming ever more apparent over the past few years (it was apparent to some people all along, and I’m not one of those people – I was wrong) that combative atheism is attractive to a lot of mean, belligerent, hostile, sadistic people. I still think a certain amount of combativeness is necessary for movements of social change, but…now I spy a danger, to quote Polonius or whoever it was.
The light dawns. Now if she would only give some thought to the idea, though I expect it will be a hurdle for her, that "connecting the word 'feminism' with the word 'virulent'" is, in fact - at least frequently - not misogyny - her previous tweet to that effect notwithstanding:

John D
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19092

Post by John D »

Steersman wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:It turns out that notorious anti-muslim bigot and islamophobe Ophelia Benson has a connection to the Chapel Hill shooting?
https://archive.today/LiDco
Awesome. From her post:
Ophelia Benson! wrote:It’s been becoming ever more apparent over the past few years (it was apparent to some people all along, and I’m not one of those people – I was wrong) that combative atheism is attractive to a lot of mean, belligerent, hostile, sadistic people. I still think a certain amount of combativeness is necessary for movements of social change, but…now I spy a danger, to quote Polonius or whoever it was.
The light dawns. Now if she would only give some thought to the idea, though I expect it will be a hurdle for her, that "connecting the word 'feminism' with the word 'virulent'" is, in fact - at least frequently - not misogyny - her previous tweet to that effect notwithstanding:
I blame Christopher Hitchens. He was really funny, and clever, but his approach was destructive in many ways.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19093

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

John D wrote: I blame Christopher Hitchens. He was really funny, and clever, but his approach was destructive in many ways.
If you want to shake the status quo, you have to be destructive. Metaphorically, of course.

Karmakin
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19094

Post by Karmakin »

Sunder wrote:
another lurker wrote:Libertarians always tell me that there is no need for regulation, but that a true free market society with no regulations will be totes great because there is a 'do not harm' principle, or something.
I'll just repeat what I said last time: Many libertarians mistakenly attribute agency to corporations. You will often hear questions such as "Why would a company do something it knows will lose them customers?"

The problem with this is that companies are not agents. They are not capable of self-preservation. Decisions are made by executives. If the incentives for the executives are to keep the company healthy, then it gives the appearance of self-preservation.

The problem is of course that in the US especially corporations often have really, really terrible executive incentives, which leads to what seems like awful decision-making from the company's perspective, but is perfectly rational for the person who is actually calling the shots. Who cares if the company goes under if I get to sail away on a golden parachute? Sure, I COULD manage the company well and collect my salary over a decade or so, or I could make double that amount in a single giant payout and leave the mess for somebody else to clean up.
Corporatism I call that. Big business run for the benefit of the executive class. It's a massive problem. Capitalism? Eh, it's fine. It's corporatism that's the big problem.

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19095

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

When you've all worked out the best way to run a public utility can you pass on your findings to the African National Congress please. They're having the odd difficulty with trivial things like keeping the lights on. Eskom, the national power company, has gradually eroded their expertees with affirmative action and has been operating on a statutory maintenance schedule (i.e. just enough to avoid being shut down by inspectors). They've been belatedly shutting down power stations for maintenance only to have them develop faults when they bring them online again. The collapse of a coal silo at one of their plants exposed the knife-edge they're operating on. We've had loadshedding for 2 or more hours a day for the last week or so and it looks to be ongoing. Consulting the schedule is becoming a routine now, as is the puddle on the kitchen floor next to the fridge and food wastage. Eskom's excuse is that the gov put off maintenance so as not to disrupt the World Cup in 2010. How shortsighted can you be.

We actually had a temporary petrol shortage here in Port Elizabeth when part of unloading mechanism at the harbour collapsed. Turns out they hadn't bothered to crack open the maintenance book. I won't even go into the astronomical percentage of the budget that gets siphoned off here in the Eastern Cape and the illegal power lines criss-crossing the roads in the townships.

You guys and your unions and private/public dilemma! You don't know how good you have it.

Michael J
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19096

Post by Michael J »

I think that for most atheists have had a fairly easy time over the last few years. A decade ago it was a common insult from the right to the left and wasn't Obama a secret Atheist before he was a Secret Muslim?
I think part of the reason that we (atheists) have broken into factions is because we have lost our common enemies. The sad part is that PZ and Watson are already blaming other atheists for the killings.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19097

Post by free thoughtpolice »

John D wrote:
I blame Christopher Hitchens. He was really funny, and clever, but his approach was destructive in many ways.
It's Hitchen's fault that Oafie is a miserable old crank?

free thoughtpolice
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19098

Post by free thoughtpolice »

John D wrote:
I blame Christopher Hitchens. He was really funny, and clever, but his approach was destructive in many ways.
It's Hitchen's fault that Oafie is a miserable old crank?

John D
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19099

Post by John D »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
John D wrote: I blame Christopher Hitchens. He was really funny, and clever, but his approach was destructive in many ways.
If you want to shake the status quo, you have to be destructive. Metaphorically, of course.
Yeah... you need to get attention while simultaneously not getting people to hate you. It is a tough one.

I remember going to the Ann Arbor art fair with my wife and baby. I was a supporter of gay rights and gay marriage. but... somehow some 6 foot tall a-hole in a fucking tutu decided I was worth screaming at in public. He was right in my fucking face yelling some gay rights shit... and I am like what the fuck! I am not a violent man, but with my wife and kid there and a fucking screaming tutu loon in my face I was about 10 seconds away from grabbing this guys dick and pullin a clothes line. You know how an idea starts to get really clear in your head.... and you say... just one more second. And then he backed off and walked away. I was pissed off most of the day. Fucking fagot asshole.... and he was yelling at a friendly. Worst of all, I was with my kid. It's not like a could run away from him. Most dads don't go into flight mode when they are with their kids.

anyway... just a story for what it is worth. haha.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19100

Post by Dick Strawkins »

It's fascinating to see the reaction to this Chapel Hill shooting incident.
His facebook page is still working so you can see various things he recommends - including a book by the Minnesota Atheists, with contributions by Peezus, Greta Christina Laden and Svan.
Alison Smith (RemieV/ and, of course, of Michael Shermer fame) has posted there mentioning that she was a facebook friend of his, as does Greg Laden.

But, of course, it's pointless to blame the Atheist Experience, Dawkins, Myers or Greta or Svan or even Laden for this incident. They have as much responsibility for this as do the Huffington Post or the cast of Friends (both of which he also liked).
It is pointless using this case as a general case study.
One isolated incident of an atheist going bonkers with a gun only means that atheism leads to violence to exactly the same degree as an isolated incident of an Amish or Quaker doing the same - in other words not at all.
The victims in this case were young Muslims, but it would be just as sad if they were young Christians, Jews, Hindus or even other atheists.

We don't know why he killed those three people but even in the worst case scenario that he did it because of their religion, that says nothing about how atheism itself influences people. There is nothing in the concept of atheism that entails the killing of members of any religion. Atheism, unlike theistic faiths like Christianity, doesn't distinguish Islam, particularly the milder form practiced by college going western educated muslims, as being inherently more harmful that other faiths.
If we say, as some people seem to be doing, that criticism of Islam as a belief system leads to crimes like this then we are left with a curious dilemma: wouldn't any criticism of any belief system have the same effect? If it's wrong for atheists to criticise Islam because it may lead to murder against Muslims (although I fail to see the logical progression there) then wouldn't it also be wrong for atheists to criticise Christianity?
Or Judaism, or indeed any religion. But practically all major theistic beliefs criticise other theistic and polytheistic religions.
Should atheism be the only belief system required to hold its tongue?
A few years back a Christian terrorist killed dozens of atheists(and religious people) in Norway. Does the average Christian bear responsibility for Anders Breiviks actions?
Or do we draw a conclusion that I think fits the facts better - namely that occasionally some people have mental breakdowns or psychopathological delusions, and if those individuals have access to weapons when they are in this condition then there is a likelihood that innocent people will die.

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19101

Post by Tribble »

TedDahlberg wrote:I think PC Gamer has become sentient, and is trying to commit suicide...

http://i.imgur.com/vBVjS9I.jpg
I subscribed to PC Gamer on Issue #4 after buying the first ones at Babbages. I had ever PC Gamer from inception (issue 1) until a few years ago when I go sick and tired of their sketchy reviews. The review that sent me over the edge was the BioWare Press Release disguised as a review for SWTOR.

And I'm not kidding about the press release review. They fucking copied directly from the press releases.

So I moved on though I, on occasion, will read their website. But it's pretty shitty having the same integrity problems as the magazine so I mostly don't.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19102

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

And this is also why you shouldn't dox. Ever. You don't know what wacko is out there waiting for the opportunity.

JackSkeptic
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19103

Post by JackSkeptic »

Michael J wrote:I think that for most atheists have had a fairly easy time over the last few years. A decade ago it was a common insult from the right to the left and wasn't Obama a secret Atheist before he was a Secret Muslim?
I think part of the reason that we (atheists) have broken into factions is because we have lost our common enemies. The sad part is that PZ and Watson are already blaming other atheists for the killings.
There is still a vast amount of work to do. Another several hundred years worth at least. Myers and Watson are classic entryists which all movements suffer from when they get to a certain size. How they deal with those entryists is often a matter of success or failure, which is why they need to be addressed now. That is one reason I think Nugent is doing what he is doing. He is fearful their extremism will spread to Ireland and Europe in general.

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19104

Post by Tribble »

Jiminy Cricket wrote:
Tribble wrote:She made that last bit up. The FBI, when they first started in 1995 came up with 8%, but they were just starting their data gathering and hadn't refined the reporting procedures. By 1996, just a year later, as they got better reporting it went to 15%. HOWEVER, unfounded are only cases where the report is determined to be false. During the same period about one-third of the cases were closed via prosecution or exceptional means (you could extradite, the attacker died, etc.).

In between there is a HUGE gray area where the cases aren't closed and the 'victim' has refused to cooperate or they're being exceptionally vague and throwing up the red-flags that tend to indicate false reports. Yet those are not reported as false or as closed. They just sit there in limbo.
Asking for valid data about false rape claims is guaranteed to get you labeled a rape apologist in the current SJW influenced political climate. For that reason, it's a great question for distinguishing between actual skeptics and the entryists taking over the online skeptic and atheist movements.

I just checked out the Wikipedia article on false rape reports. I half expected it to have been edited to uselessness by the "always believe the accuser" brigade, but it did link to several studies. The rates are all over the map and none of the studies had a very large sample size.

A little more Googling turned up this detailed summary on Reddit: It's by a men's rights activist, though, which makes it immediately suspect. (Where is that sarcasm tag?)

Is anyone aware of a more comprehensive study than the FBI one mentioned?
There are a lot. The range is great. I like McDowell's and Kanin's work because they were extremely rigorous and neither had any sort of political axe to grind or thing to hide. Kanin, in fact, when he published his results went from 'beloved by Feminists' for his work on male aggression to 'Misogynist #1' for his work on false rape claims.

Kanin, btw, is quite clear he had a very unique situation that he felt gave good results BUT the sample size was not large enough. He did two follow up studies with similar results at a couple of university campuses.

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19105

Post by Tribble »

Jiminy Cricket wrote:PZ spake:
People are tribal. People can easily dehumanize others with the right propaganda. It has nothing to do with religion or the lack thereof, and everything to do with the messages their tribe is sending. Religion is wrong and a foolish set of ideas, but religious communities can tell their followers “kill the infidel!” or “live in peace!”, and non-religious communities can do both, too.
Non-religious communities can tell their followers "Believe me when I say that mine enemy provides a haven for harassers, misogynists, and rapists!"

I wonder how much Amazon charges to ship a mirror to Morris.
Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it.

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19106

Post by Tribble »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Tigzy wrote:
Shatterface as Guest wrote:Chapel Hill shootings

You can bet this story will be spun into 'all atheists are murderers' by the same people who insist Islam is a religion of peace:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 38126.html

Shatterface
TV programmes liked by Hicks include The Atheist Experience, Criminal Minds and Friends, while he describes himself as a fan of Thomas Paine’s The Age of Reason and Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion.
The Atheist Experience? As in Dolly Dillahunty, Russell Glasser & Martin Fuckin Wagner? Which also has an FTB blog?

Hey, remember how many people condemned MRA & PUA sites for enabling Eliot Rodger?

The words 'you all have the name Craig Hicks' and 'you're all hiding it in fear and shame and cowardice' immediately spring to mind...
That's priceless.
Anyway, this is just another excuse to mock the bunch of twats.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9lBRBLIAAARZln.png
Just look at that. Wow.
Atheism. A religion people join to appear smarter.
Jesus Christ, they all have moobs! EAT A FUCKING SALAD SOMETIME!!!

Tribble
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19107

Post by Tribble »

Kirbmarc wrote:....

I hope they get the hint.
You're gonna need a MUCH BIGGER 2x4 than that...

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19108

Post by BarnOwl »

This article is consistent with the "angry sociopathic outburst" interpretation of the Chapel Hill shootings:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/ar ... -82781033/

Good thing he wasn't also a loner. Loners are the most reviled of all; everything else - Christian, Muslim, MRA, homosexual, ginger, bed wetter, you name it - goes right out the window in terms of blame, when the perp is a loner.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19109

Post by twocunts »

Lsuoma wrote:I see Randall Monroe continues his descent into SJWankery:
I'm not sure what you're reading into that XKCD strip. I thought M*u*nroe was simply making the point that he thinks 'bromance' is a stupid neologism, and that whenever people talk of bromances they might as well just call them friendships. The joke is that he's just taking the wikipedia entry on 'bromance' and doing s/bromance/friendship on it. Seems reasonable to me and I can't see an SJW angle here.

And to the other guy* here who was saying Munroe must think friendships can only exist between two men - no, that's not what he was saying. He was saying 'all bromances are friendships'. It doesn't follow that 'all friendships are bromances'. Though he chose to gloss over that crucial bit of logic, I don't think less of him for it. I think he just wanted to keep the idea of the comic simple.

Oh god I've caught asparagus syndrome.

*scroll back to try to find out who it was and what exactly they said? No way, I'm all out of spoons!

twocunts
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19110

Post by twocunts »

Oh and belated congrats on your vascular system's successful resealment.

Garlix

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19111

Post by Garlix »

twocunts wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:I see Randall Monroe continues his descent into SJWankery:
I'm not sure what you're reading into that XKCD strip. I thought M*u*nroe was simply making the point that he thinks 'bromance' is a stupid neologism,
STOP OPPRESSING BRO-KIN!

(Not quite sure if I'm joking or if that's actually the angle here...)

jugheadnaut
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19112

Post by jugheadnaut »

paddybrown wrote:Disclosure: I'm a public sector worker. I have a decent pension plan and it's pretty difficult to fire me, but I'm not getting anywhere near 100K a year, and neither is anyone I know. But what you've said is kind of what I meant by "the complacency and inefficiency you always get with public services, where everybody knows they're getting paid no matter what". Imagine keeping that culture intact, and adding a profit motive, a badly-drawn up contract that's designed to eliminate competition, and a lowest-wins tender system.

When my employer contracts something out, we create a contract so big that no contractor in the market actually has the capability to fulfil it, which means all our contractors are basically created in the tender process. The winner hires the staff and equipment they need to fulfil the contract (and doesn't do any work for anyone else), the losers don't bother. So if anything goes wrong, we can't take our custom elsewhere. It's happened. One contractor is found to be gouging and their contract is terminated. All we could do was reconstitute the same contractor, employing all the same people, based in the same feckin' yard. All they did was change their name and repaint their vans.

Theoretically, privatisation could improve efficiency in the way you say. Unfortunately, decisions are made by politicians and politicians can't resist the lure of patronage. The last Labour UK government made extensive use of the "private finance initiative" to pay favoured contractors orders of magnitude more than they needed to on projects that were designed with the profitability of the contract, rather than what work was actually necessary, in mind. As George Monbiot puts it, contracts were "reverse-engineered to meet the demands of corporate investors. This, for example, is how the £30m public scheme to refurbish Coventry's two hospitals became a £410m private scheme to knock them both down and rebuild one of them – containing fewer beds and fewer doctors and nurses". Not to mention that, at the end of the contract the hospital was to belong to the contractor and not the government, and the land the other hospital was built on was given to the contractor to develop as they wished.

This, far more than the property market crash, is why the UK's finances are in the shit and why the current government is having to cut public sector jobs - PFI contracts are much more difficult and expensive to break than even public sector employment contracts. Our unions are worse than useless - instead of trying to preserve as many jobs as possible, they're calling pointless one-day strikes that people barely even notice to demand 1.5% pay rises rather than the offered 1%.

Maybe Toronto is doing things right. I hope so. Maybe it'll be so successful it'll spread. Not holding my breath though.
My 100K figure was referring to US/Canadian dollars. I don't think things have gotten so insane that there are unskilled public sector employees making the equivalent of £100K. And the $100K figure isn't across the map, of course. It's only likely to get inflated to this point in political machine-run cities like New York and Chicago.

The main issue here, IMO, is with public sector unions, which I think are an absolute scourge. They really are the worst of all possible worlds, because dealing with them is like dealing with a contractor, only it's a coercive monopoly contractor that already has insidious influence on the inside. If governments handled their affairs like a business when they wanted to offer new services or expand on existing ones, the situation would be much improved.

Of course, private outsourcing should be done cleanly, openly and intelligently. There was a scandal at the provincial level here in Ontario a few years back when it was discovered that no bid contracts were offered for e-health services based on patronage. So now the rules are strict. I recently was in a partnership responding to a Request For Qualification (RFQ) issued by a government chartered company. This was my first time doing this kind of thing directly. Part of the RFQ mentioned a deadline to get questions submitted so that they could answer them on their website for all participants to see. I didn't realize that meant this was the deadline to get any assistance whatsoever. I asked a critical question the day after the deadline, and I got no response. I was angry and contacted a PR person at the company, who had the RFQ administrator e-mail me. I was tersely told to check the existing documentation and answers to the questions that were posed on their website. As it turned out, I found my answer buried in their documentation. So why wouldn't they give me the answer directly? The rules don't allow for any private conversations between the RFQ administrators and participants. When you ask a question, they can only answer it if both the question and answer are posted publicly. This is to avoid any appearance of favoritism. Once I understood this, I was OK with it.

NoGodsEver
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19113

Post by NoGodsEver »

Goddamn it, I mean I love Dawkins, I really do, but he really needs to shut the fuck up right now also. He is just as wrong saying this is over a parking dispute as the SJW's are in saying it was a hate crime. WE DON'T FUCKING HAVE THE FACTS YET.

Really?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19114

Post by Really? »

twocunts wrote:Oh and belated congrats on your vascular system's successful resealment.
Surprise, Lsuoma! We got you a card!

http://i.imgur.com/xSBIJwD.jpg

Michael J
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19115

Post by Michael J »

BarnOwl wrote:This article is consistent with the "angry sociopathic outburst" interpretation of the Chapel Hill shootings:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/ar ... -82781033/

Good thing he wasn't also a loner. Loners are the most reviled of all; everything else - Christian, Muslim, MRA, homosexual, ginger, bed wetter, you name it - goes right out the window in terms of blame, when the perp is a loner.
No doubt they will come out of the woodwork but the only thing I have read linking atheism to the killings is PZ and Watson. All the articles mention he is the atheist but don't seem to link that to the killings.

NoGodsEver
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19116

Post by NoGodsEver »

Sorry for shouting, but Jesus Maryfucking Christ...

KiwiInOz
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19117

Post by KiwiInOz »

Tribble wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote: That's priceless.
Anyway, this is just another excuse to mock the bunch of twats.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9lBRBLIAAARZln.png
Just look at that. Wow.
Atheism. A religion people join to appear smarter.
Jesus Christ, they all have moobs! EAT A FUCKING SALAD SOMETIME!!!
And do some push ups!

KiwiInOz
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19118

Post by KiwiInOz »

Really? wrote:
twocunts wrote:Oh and belated congrats on your vascular system's successful resealment.
Surprise, Lsuoma! We got you a card!

http://i.imgur.com/xSBIJwD.jpg
How many vascular systems does he have Mr Greengrocer?

screwtape
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19119

Post by screwtape »

Now with added realism:
xSBIJwD copy.jpg
(164.78 KiB) Downloaded 213 times

Southern
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19120

Post by Southern »

Dick Strawkins wrote: But, of course, it's pointless to blame the Atheist Experience, Dawkins, Myers or Greta or Svan or even Laden for this incident. They have as much responsibility for this as do the Huffington Post or the cast of Friends (both of which he also liked).
It may be dishonest, but it's far from pointless. It would be karma. Weren't they blaming the MRA for Elliot Roger? They deserve the same.

Southern
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19121

Post by Southern »

screwtape wrote:Now with added realism:
I might as well thank you. I got home, I was ready to eat something... and now I'm not ready anymore. I might as well give up on eating forever. I'll lose some weight because of that. So thank you!

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19122

Post by twocunts »

KiwiInOz wrote: How many vascular systems does he have Mr Greengrocer?
Pretty sure the apostrophe's correctly used and placed.

or... was this all a cunning ploy to make me post about grammar, thus exacerbating my temporary beer-induced asp-buglers?

fuzzy
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19123

Post by fuzzy »

Just to let our Fascist tit know that I received a thankfully quite-infrequent redwater visit from hemorrhoid town in apparent anal empathy within a day of his recent events.

Really?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19124

Post by Really? »

twocunts wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote: How many vascular systems does he have Mr Greengrocer?
Pretty sure the apostrophe's correctly used and placed.

or... was this all a cunning ploy to make me post about grammar, thus exacerbating my temporary beer-induced asp-buglers?
Yes, the apostrophe is placed correctly. Each human has only one vascular system. (I'm ignoring the existence of siamese twins, etc.)
Oh and belated congrats on your vascular system's successful resealment.
The "successful resealment" belongs to the "vascular system." The apostrophe therefore belongs where it is.

If you write
Oh and belated congrats on your vascular systems' successful resealment.
You are saying that a person's multiple vascular systems have been successfully resealed.

KiwiInOz
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19125

Post by KiwiInOz »

twocunts wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote: How many vascular systems does he have Mr Greengrocer?
Pretty sure the apostrophe's correctly used and placed.

or... was this all a cunning ploy to make me post about grammar, thus exacerbating my temporary beer-induced asp-buglers?
You are possibly right and I was just being a misguided pedantic prick. I blame my asparagus for picking on the grocers' apostrophe.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19126

Post by KiwiInOz »

Really? wrote:
twocunts wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote: How many vascular systems does he have Mr Greengrocer?
Pretty sure the apostrophe's correctly used and placed.

or... was this all a cunning ploy to make me post about grammar, thus exacerbating my temporary beer-induced asp-buglers?
Yes, the apostrophe is placed correctly. Each human has only one vascular system. (I'm ignoring the existence of siamese twins, etc.)
Oh and belated congrats on your vascular system's successful resealment.
The "successful resealment" belongs to the "vascular system." The apostrophe therefore belongs where it is.

If you write
Oh and belated congrats on your vascular systems' successful resealment.
You are saying that a person's multiple vascular systems have been successfully resealed.
Well aren't you the grammar queen. You probably use the Hoxford comma has well.

jugheadnaut
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19127

Post by jugheadnaut »

another lurker wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
Like the idiot who told me that in Libertard Land, there will be no need for courts, or lawyers, and that citizens will volunteer to put people on trial, and that the bad guys will pay off the court costs from jail....
To be fair though most libertarians don't go this far. The ones I know think that private courts and a private justice system would still exist even without a state. Most law firms are private anyway so I don't see why a libertarian would be against lawyers.
Every libertarian that I have met seems to have different ideas, most of them a hodgepodge. Of course, it is likelier that the examples that one is likely to meet in messageboard land are going to be a little bit crazier than the norm.
It seems likely that the sample of libertarians you have dealt with are at the fringe. They sound like anarcho-libertarians and Objectivists, and maybe a smattering of half-assed autodidacts who like the concept of individual freedom but have no understanding of economics. Mainstream libertarians are actually remarkably cohesive in fundamental philosophy and the way they approach issues. For instance, check out an article and the comments from Reason Magazine or the Cato Institute, or the blogs of Megan McArdle or Tyler Cowen. While there are certainly disagreements, the philosophical framework is consistent and discussions tend to be very productive and civil. In a nutshell, this philosophical framework is that individual freedom and choice is an important value that requires no higher justification, but reason and evidence are going to be used alongside this value judgement when coming to conclusions.

On the matter of regulation, no mainstream libertarian would say regulations are never justified. The concepts of economic externality and market failure are accepted and understood. If a regulation is narrowly tailored to mitigate an externality, a libertarian is likely to regard it as a positive good, not just a necessary evil (e.g. pollution permit markets). The main criticism of regulation that libertarians have is that this isn't how regulation is typically crafted by governments. An externality may be used to justify it, but the regulation itself doesn't really deal with the externality in anything resembling a rational way. So it wouldn't be uncommon to have a mainstream libertarian say that most current regulations do more harm than good. That doesn't mean they oppose the entire concept of regulation.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19128

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

Tigzy wrote:LOL - Peez has a post up about how the Chapel Hill Shooting demonstrates why atheism needs a moral code. With the unwritten assumption that it ought to be the very same moral code that Peez himself promotes.

[img]
Knifing christians.

He talks a big talk...

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19129

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

Southern wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote: But, of course, it's pointless to blame the Atheist Experience, Dawkins, Myers or Greta or Svan or even Laden for this incident. They have as much responsibility for this as do the Huffington Post or the cast of Friends (both of which he also liked).
It may be dishonest, but it's far from pointless. It would be karma. Weren't they blaming the MRA for Elliot Roger? They deserve the same.
They also blamed Seth Rogan.

Their reasoning seems to be 'I don't like X. I don't like Y. Therefore X causes Y.'

On this, and every other subject.

Shatterface

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19130

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Tigzy wrote:LOL - Peez has a post up about how the Chapel Hill Shooting demonstrates why atheism needs a moral code. With the unwritten assumption that it ought to be the very same moral code that Peez himself promotes.

[img]
Knifing christians.

He talks a big talk...
:ninja:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19131

Post by jugheadnaut »

KiwiInOz wrote:
twocunts wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote: How many vascular systems does he have Mr Greengrocer?
Pretty sure the apostrophe's correctly used and placed.

or... was this all a cunning ploy to make me post about grammar, thus exacerbating my temporary beer-induced asp-buglers?
You are possibly right and I was just being a misguided pedantic prick. I blame my asparagus for picking on the grocers' apostrophe.
It's funny, I realized about a month ago that I was frequently getting the apostrophe wrong when dealing with a plural (e.g. boy's room instead of boys' room). I'm now aware of it but am probably still getting it wrong some of the time.

Parody Accountant
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19132

Post by Parody Accountant »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:I still find it hilarious that Martin Wagner earns feminist brownie points with occasional rants about "neckbeards" yet is the author and illustrator of a furry comic which depicts mild porn scenes between the anthropomorphic animals.
le lol.
If you're looking for scientifically-approved, anthropomorphic porn, then grab a box of tissues and google-image on "mcclintock rats lordosis." Just sayin'.
http://i.imgur.com/euNTky6.jpg
:cdc:

another lurker
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19133

Post by another lurker »

I always leave out apostrophes when typing on my phone. I just don't have the spoons to add them half the time.

KiwiInOz
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19134

Post by KiwiInOz »

jugheadnaut wrote:
KiwiInOz wrote:
You are possibly right and I was just being a misguided pedantic prick. I blame my asparagus for picking on the grocers' apostrophe.
It's funny, I realized about a month ago that I was frequently getting the apostrophe wrong when dealing with a plural (e.g. boy's room instead of boys' room). I'm now aware of it but am probably still getting it wrong some of the time.
Me too. And don't get me started on trying to spell accommodation without spell check.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19135

Post by Lsuoma »

another lurker wrote:I always leave out apostrophes when typing on my phone. I just don't have the spoons to add them half the time.
Don't you mean spoon's?

dog puke
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19136

Post by dog puke »

Shermertron on the twatter:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19137

Post by dog puke »

More... thanks to Shermertron on the twatter...

NoR rides again.

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19138

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

jugheadnaut wrote:It's funny, I realized about a month ago that I was frequently getting the apostrophe wrong when dealing with a plural (e.g. boy's room instead of boys' room). I'm now aware of it but am probably still getting it wrong some of the time.
Boy's room for the room for a boy; boys' room for a room for boys.

That seems easy enough because you are shifting the apostrophe according to whether it's plural.

But I get mixed up with men's room. I mean, men is plural, like boys, so why isn't it mens' room?

Shatterface

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19139

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

dog puke wrote:More... thanks to Shermertron on the twatter...

NoR rides again.
Let's face it, when the story first broke most of us thought it was Nerd who had gone amok, didn't we?

Shatterface

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#19140

Post by windy »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:When you've all worked out the best way to run a public utility can you pass on your findings to the African National Congress please. They're having the odd difficulty with trivial things like keeping the lights on.
We couldn't possibly Westernsplain to Africans how to run their country: that would be cultural imperialism :snooty:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:Eskom, the national power company, has gradually eroded their expertees with affirmative action and has been operating on a statutory maintenance schedule (i.e. just enough to avoid being shut down by inspectors). They've been belatedly shutting down power stations for maintenance only to have them develop faults when they bring them online again. The collapse of a coal silo at one of their plants exposed the knife-edge they're operating on. We've had loadshedding for 2 or more hours a day for the last week or so and it looks to be ongoing. Consulting the schedule is becoming a routine now, as is the puddle on the kitchen floor next to the fridge and food wastage. Eskom's excuse is that the gov put off maintenance so as not to disrupt the World Cup in 2010. How shortsighted can you be.
Eish, sounds like I picked the right time to leave... :shock:

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