Ex-employee of Giant Spacekat explains how Brianna Wu shot to fame:Guestus Aurelius wrote:(and yes, I just checked, and it appears that Brianna Wu spoke at Columbia College in Chicago a few days ago, not Columbia University in NYC)
Michael Nugent is a Suppressive Person.Skep tickle wrote:Ashley Miller & Michael Nugent communicated yesterday on Twitter, MN advising (I'm paraphrasing from memory) that AM look beyond RW's post about Hemant's post, to Hemant's actual post. She ended saying she would.
Today the re-education begins:
http://i.imgur.com/uU76Q2Q.png?1
Yes, I saw that, too.Kirbmarc wrote:Michael Nugent is a Suppressive Person.Skep tickle wrote:Ashley Miller & Michael Nugent communicated yesterday on Twitter, MN advising (I'm paraphrasing from memory) that AM look beyond RW's post about Hemant's post, to Hemant's actual post. She ended saying she would.
Today the re-education begins:
http://i.imgur.com/uU76Q2Q.png?1
Are you dissing out Gambetta, a fellow from my hometown, just to point out we have a few towns here with similar (but not exact) same names? I'm pretty sure that's fight speech in most pubs around here.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Who the fuck knows? Have you ever noticed all your cities have almost the same bloody names?dogen wrote:
Agreed. Who flies to Chicago to speak at Columbia? Wouldn't NYC be a more appropriate destination, given that Columbia is in... NYC?To meet the imagined break-out, Gambetta then ordered an hasty advance in winter storms by untrained, undisciplined, & exhausted militia:Howard, The Franco-Prussian War, p. 310 wrote:"Gambetta ... received a second dispatch from Paris which ... stated that the village of Epinay had been taken -- Epinay-sur-Seine, which has been taken in a diversionary attack northwards from St Denis. But at Tours this was taken to mean Epinay-sur-Orge, a village a dozen miles due south of Paris, far behind the German lines of investment; and its capture could only mean that Trochu had broken through.... Gambetta issue a proclamation in language as lyrical as it was unwise:
'The genius of France, for the moment veiled, is appearing anew!"
The genius of France.This was the climax of the People's War in France. The events of the next two days were to destroy Gambetta's plans, not only on the Seine where Trochu abandoned as hopeless the attempt to break through the German lines, but on the Loire, where the exaggerated expectations aroused by [minor local victories] were shattered."
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:Paris, Arkansas
Paris, former name of Loraine, California
Paris, Idaho
Paris, Illinois
Paris, Indiana
Paris, Iowa
Paris, Kentucky
Paris, Maine
Paris, Michigan
Paris, Mississippi
Paris, Missouri
Paris, New York
Paris, Ohio
Paris, Pennsylvania
Paris, Tennessee
Paris, Texas
Paris, Virginia
Paris, Grant County, Wisconsin, a town
Paris, Kenosha County, Wisconsin, a town
Paris (community), Wisconsin, an unincorporated community
Paris Township, Michigan
Beresford, South Dakota, formerly Paris, Dakota Territory
Paris Mountain, Virginia
New Paris, Indiana
New Paris, Ohio
New Paris, Pennsylvania
South Paris, Maine
West Paris, Maine
In the interest of fairness, most of the commentary on Zoey did't accuse her of exchanging sex for favors as much as exposing the incestuous relationship between game developers and the gaming media.Tigzy wrote:Christ no. Jesus - the thought of it. No, that was Zoe Quinn, the velociraptor of love. Not entirely pleasant thinking of that either, but compared to Wu in the throes of...yeh, nasty.mothmantis wrote: I can't figure gamergate out, but isn't she the one that boned a journalist in exchange for favorable reviews or was that someone else?
If they claimed they were going to do something and then failed at it, it never happened. What are you even talking about? Who is Thunderfeets anyway?Kirbmarc wrote: Classy as hell, Internet Tough Guy.
I think it's also important to note that the same people who label men as sexist horndog poon missiles are women who are cheating on their boyfriends with five dudes at the same time, some married. (And those men are also white knights seeking to label men as sexist horndog poon missiles.)Spike13 wrote:In the interest of fairness, most of the commentary on Zoey did't accuse her of exchanging sex for favors as much as exposing the incestuous relationship between game developers and the gaming media.Tigzy wrote:Christ no. Jesus - the thought of it. No, that was Zoe Quinn, the velociraptor of love. Not entirely pleasant thinking of that either, but compared to Wu in the throes of...yeh, nasty.mothmantis wrote: I can't figure gamergate out, but isn't she the one that boned a journalist in exchange for favorable reviews or was that someone else?
The real bone of contention was, did the reviewer who was having a relationship with her, give her favorable reviews while he was involved with her. ( without disclosing the fact that he had a relationship with her.)
Sure they're talking about here? The mention of "Joe Bageant" and "lots of links" either means they are talking about somewhere else or are really, really, making things up. I don't recall ever seeing any mention of this guy. Have I missed something?ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:They surely read the fucking Pit.
They surely read the fucking Pit.
Yesterday:
http://i.imgur.com/dhD9vHU.png
Today Meyers has a post about a self-identified redneck and his Youtube vid. Meyers compares him to Jay Smooth and...
http://i.imgur.com/CWJut5b.png
http://i.imgur.com/17k2CJ2.png
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... /#comments
He must be out of illegal medications again.Kirbmarc wrote: Classy as hell, Internet Tough Guy.
The same thing that happens to every other freeloading lolcow when their revenue stream dries up.Lsuoma wrote:What's going to happen to freeloaders like Watson when they're no longer able to freeload?
He also gets the Myers MO for going after people like Hemant and Nugent, counting on their desire to have a dialogue and be respectful to keep them from responding to his litany of offenses appropriately.Okay, let’s think this through logically. Imagine an average western liberal atheist, who is more or less committed to all the things that we value: free speech, women’s emancipation, gay rights, all that stuff. Then he is suddenly made aware of the fact that Islam rejects all of that, and does not hesitate to use violence to do so. Maybe he finds out about the fifteen hundred girls raped in Rotherham, and how it was covered up out of fears of racism. Maybe he sees the cartoon riots, as I did. Maybe it’s another terror attack, or maybe he makes friends with Yezidi, or perhaps sees something about the Islamic slave trade… Or whatever
[...]
So, armed with this knowledge, our atheist makes the mistake of raising his concerns online, on the likes of FtB. And he gets the same treatment I did – get’s called a evil racist fascist monster who doesn’t deserve anything but vitriol.
So he goes looking elsewhere for people who are willing to support him. And, sooner or later, he finds them. Someone says something like: “You see the way you get treated by the liberal establishment? For nothing more than the best of intentions? I know exactly how you feel; that’s the way they’ve been treating us for all this time. Yeah, I know we get called ‘fascist’ and ‘racist’ and all that, but you’ve seen yourself how little that all means. Why don’t you come over, pull up a chair, get comfy and listen to all these answers we’ve worked out, that will also explain so much else that is wrong with the modern world.â€
And people wonder why explicitly anti-immigration parties are on the rise everywhere, and why Marine LePen may well be the next PM of France.
He's a pretty eccentric guy, to say the least.Pitchguest wrote:Speaking of people who have a high opinion of themselves, how the hell did I miss this?
http://theralphretort.com/sjw-mob-turns ... in-408015/
I saw it on this site and thought it was a joke.
Brianna Wu starts talking about "male privilege", talks about getting upgraded to first class for free (just lol), and some 60-year old man spilling her precious coke on her "leather bag of electronics." Her reaction?
http://theralphretort.com/wp-content/up ... 6SUxmB.jpg
"Do you know who I am?" Fucking really? I knew this person was insane, but this is a whole new level of crazy. Narcissism is one thing, but this is just ... WHO SAYS THAT?
So...twitter?James Caruthers wrote:The same thing that happens to every other freeloading lolcow when their revenue stream dries up.Lsuoma wrote:What's going to happen to freeloaders like Watson when they're no longer able to freeload?
https://twitter.com/hopewithinchaos
This one:Sofa King High wrote:Refresh my memory here.
What organization was Jen McCreight a board member of ??
Google comes up with nothing.
Huh, how do I say it? We still have presidents here. And I'm quite (hopeful even) she won't be the next one.Sunder wrote: (quoting Prussian)
And people wonder why explicitly anti-immigration parties are on the rise everywhere, and why Marine LePen may well be the next PM of France.
If God was real and his moral perspective accurate as conveyed in the Bible, even then I would consider it morally necessary to oppose this being. He would be more of an evil deity than a good one.Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering, since I don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, does it really matter if there was a historical Jesus?
Any message a real Jesus had will have been so distorted anyway and I'm not sure what the difference between a real and a fictional Jesus would be.
If he's a real figure into which people projected earlier myths and prophesies or an composite fictional character, so what?
What am I missing?
Shatterface
Very true. YHWH is a pretty evil fictional character, especially when compared to the main villain of his book:James Caruthers wrote:If God was real and his moral perspective accurate as conveyed in the Bible, even then I would consider it morally necessary to oppose this being. He would be more of an evil deity than a good one.Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering, since I don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, does it really matter if there was a historical Jesus?
Any message a real Jesus had will have been so distorted anyway and I'm not sure what the difference between a real and a fictional Jesus would be.
If he's a real figure into which people projected earlier myths and prophesies or an composite fictional character, so what?
What am I missing?
Shatterface
This is assuming the absolute best for the religious perspective, which is that they could conceivably prove the existence of their particular tribal god myth, which of course, they cannot.
There, I'm done dipping my bedora.
I think the correct word might trans*plaining.Struth wrote:There are quite a few male SJW zealots who identify as "women" (and claim that not doing so is "violence")
Holy shit that is a rhetorical beatdown right there.When your position commits you to saying “Love isn’t important to humans and we should demand people stop caring about whether or not they have it,†you need to take a really careful look in the mirror – assuming you even show up in one.
transplaining
When transgender individuals complain about their self-created drama to their eternal spouse Tumblr, under the impression that the rest of the world is to unquestioningly conform its will and behavior to their demented ramblings. Spinoff of mansplaining
I think that you'll be probably have to deal with Sarkò rather than la peste blonde.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Huh, how do I say it? We still have presidents here. And I'm quite (hopeful even) she won't be the next one.Sunder wrote: (quoting Prussian)
And people wonder why explicitly anti-immigration parties are on the rise everywhere, and why Marine LePen may well be the next PM of France.
Yes, that's my guess as well. Between Scylla and Charybdis, really.Kirbmarc wrote:I think that you'll be probably have to deal with Sarkò rather than la peste blonde.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Huh, how do I say it? We still have presidents here. And I'm quite (hopeful even) she won't be the next one.Sunder wrote: (quoting Prussian)
And people wonder why explicitly anti-immigration parties are on the rise everywhere, and why Marine LePen may well be the next PM of France.
Yes, apparently agreeing or even not demonizing Dawkins makes you a Fanboi. Hey, it works for them. Easier than thinking.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:"Dawkbros"...
Because nothing says "I just want to be able to ignore people" more than talking constantly and at length about the people you claim to want to ignore.Struth wrote:
Well said, I would have to agree and join you in opposition to the celestial dictator.James Caruthers wrote:If God was real and his moral perspective accurate as conveyed in the Bible, even then I would consider it morally necessary to oppose this being. He would be more of an evil deity than a good one.Shatterface as Guest wrote:Just wondering, since I don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, does it really matter if there was a historical Jesus?
Any message a real Jesus had will have been so distorted anyway and I'm not sure what the difference between a real and a fictional Jesus would be.
If he's a real figure into which people projected earlier myths and prophesies or an composite fictional character, so what?
What am I missing?
Shatterface
This is assuming the absolute best for the religious perspective, which is that they could conceivably prove the existence of their particular tribal god myth, which of course, they cannot.
There, I'm done dipping my bedora.
Plz plz plz someone photoshop him with a barrister's wigjimthepleb wrote:When would the statute of limitations start and end with libel online?Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Barrister Alex should start his own legal advice twitter feed, a la Popehat. Call it Duncecap.Tony Parsehole wrote:Jesus wept.
If you were a marketing exec Block Bot would be an absolute gift.CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Yes, apparently agreeing or even not demonizing Dawkins makes you a Fanboi. Hey, it works for them. Easier than thinking.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:"Dawkbros"...
Wile E Coyote isn't just a jealous total loser that works part time mowing lawns to get beer and Ritalin money.Kirbmarc wrote: Classy as hell, Internet Tough Guy.
Meritocracy is impossible. "Better" and "best" are ONLY social constructs and have no grounding in reality.Giliell
April 11, 2015 • 4:56 pm
The belief in a “meritocracy†must be among the weirdest religious beliefs out there. The firm belief that there isn’t only 1 person who’s “objectively bestâ€, but that also other people can objectively determine who that is.
Especially when talking about literature.
Usually, every person nominated for the Hugo would be more than worthy of winning it. And for every person nominated there are certainly 10 or 100 who would equally merit a nomination.
There is no “objective†list of top 10 stories/authors/editors/whatever and you simply count down to ten. There is more like a very vague bar you have to jump and the rest depends on who gets noticed. Which is where those guys got their affirmative action. And now people are actively paying attention to books by people who don’t get the benefit of the permanent spotlight. And look and behold, they find works of high quality written by people who are not white guys. Works that are not “objectively best†because that doesn’t exist, but works that are worthy.
The “puppies†have greatly shaped my reading list over the last years. Whoever was their object of hate du jour turned out to be a talented author with interesting stories to tell.
Look at the bright side, at least you're not as thoroughly fucked as Italy. Boy am I glad my family moved to Tessin before I was born.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Kirbmarc wrote: Yes, that's my guess as well. Between Scylla and Charybdis, really.
By "skin color" she's referring to "no tan" as a proxy for "little to no exposure to UV radiation". Her natural skin color being pale makes it (a) far easier for her to make adequate vitamin D from minimal UVA exposure, and (b) less likely a priori that she's vitamin D deficient, as compared with someone with more melanin.Ashley Miller wrote:Just saw my skin in the midday sun for the first time in a while. Vitamin d deficiency was come by honestly. There is no color in any of my skin, wrist or leg is the same as forearm or shoulder. Yeesh, I've always been pale, but this is new.
2/2015 medical journal article Vitamin D deficiency in minority populationsBACKGROUND: Whether dark skin produces less vitamin D after UVB radiation than fair skin remains controversial.
OBJECTIVE: To compare 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25-(OH)-D] levels after a single UVB exposure in fair (phototype II-III) and black-skinned (phototype VI) volunteers.
METHODS: Fair-skinned volunteers (n = 20, 4 males/16 females, mean age: 23.2 years) and black-skinned (n = 11, 6 males/5 females, mean age: 23.8 years) received a single total body UVB exposure (0.022 J/cm(2)). The 25-(OH)-D levels were measured on days 0, 2 and 6.
RESULTS: On day 0, all volunteers were severely vitamin D deficient. On day 2, 25-(OH)-D levels of fair-skinned volunteers increased significantly (median: 11.9-13.3 ng/ml, p < 0.0001), but not in black-skinned people (median: 8.60-8.55 ng/ml, p = 0.843). Again, on day 6, 25-(OH)-D levels of fair-skinned volunteers increased significantly (median: 11.9-14.3 ng/ml, p < 0.0001), but not in black-skinned people (median: 8.60-9.57 ng/ml, p = 0.375).
CONCLUSION: This study suggests that skin pigmentation negatively influences vitamin D synthesis.
OBJECTIVE: Black and Hispanic individuals synthesize less vitamin D per unit of sun exposure than white individuals. The relationship between UV radiation and vitamin D insufficiency in minorities has not been well explored.
DESIGN: Prospective cohort study.
SETTING: Using the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, we obtained serum vitamin D levels for non-Hispanic Whites, Hispanics and non-Hispanic Blacks aged ≥18 years from 2000-2006. We linked these data with the average monthly solar UV index by census tract and data on sun exposure, vitamin D supplementation, health and demographics. We used multivariable regression analyses to assess vitamin D deficiency (<15 ng/ml) and insufficiency (<20 ng/ml) in January (when the UV index was lowest) by race/ethnicity and geography.
SUBJECTS: Adults (n 14,319) aged ≥18 years.
RESULTS: A 1-point increase in the UV index was associated with a 0·51 ng/ml increase in vitamin D (95% CI 0·35, 0·67 ng/ml; P<0·001). Non-Hispanic Black race and Hispanic ethnicity were associated with a 7·47 and 3·41 ng/ml decrease in vitamin D, respectively (both P<0·001). In January, an estimated 65·4% of non-Hispanic Blacks were deficient in vitamin D, compared with 28·9% of Hispanics and 14·0% of non-Hispanic Whites. An estimated 84·2% of non-Hispanic Blacks were insufficient in vitamin D v. 56·3% of Hispanics and 34·8% of non-Hispanic Whites. More non-Hispanic Blacks were estimated to be deficient in vitamin D in January in the highest UV index quartile than were non-Hispanic Whites in the lowest UV index quartile (60·2% v. 25·7%).
CONCLUSIONS: Wintertime vitamin D insufficiency is pervasive among minority populations, and not uncommon among non-Hispanic Whites.
Vitamin D deficiency is also related to alcohol-induced liver problems, yes?Skep tickle wrote:Quick corrections :doh:
My writing "skin color" might suggest I was directly quoting her. Instead, quote should read: "color in...[her] skin".
My "(a) far easier...to make adequate vitamin D from minimal UVA exposure" should instead say "UVB"
Jen McCreight got all those opportunities because she's an electric public speaker, goddammit.Sunder wrote:Pure meritocracy is debatable, but when people like PZ who have in the past benefited form a pretty sizable spotlight amongst online atheists publish complete trash and it gets outsold by far less well-known names, you can't seriously argue that the quality had nothing to do with it.
LOL. In reality I'm pretty sure it was Thunderf00t who scraped freethoughtblogs off of his shoe. He claimed to have lost about 300 subscribers in the aftermath of his time on that network.Kirbmarc wrote: Classy as hell, Internet Tough Guy.
Excuse me, the preferred term is 'Dick-head'.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:"Dawkbros"...
ERV wrote:Excuse me, the preferred term is 'Dick-head'.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:"Dawkbros"...
:naughty:
You forgot Paris Hilton.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Are you dissing out Gambetta, a fellow from my hometown, just to point out we have a few towns here with similar (but not exact) same names? I'm pretty sure that's fight speech in most pubs around here.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: The genius of France.
Meanwhile, in the US...
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:Paris, Arkansas
Paris, former name of Loraine, California
Paris, Idaho
Paris, Illinois
Paris, Indiana
Paris, Iowa
Paris, Kentucky
Paris, Maine
Paris, Michigan
Paris, Mississippi
Paris, Missouri
Paris, New York
Paris, Ohio
Paris, Pennsylvania
Paris, Tennessee
Paris, Texas
Paris, Virginia
Paris, Grant County, Wisconsin, a town
Paris, Kenosha County, Wisconsin, a town
Paris (community), Wisconsin, an unincorporated community
Paris Township, Michigan
Beresford, South Dakota, formerly Paris, Dakota Territory
Paris Mountain, Virginia
New Paris, Indiana
New Paris, Ohio
New Paris, Pennsylvania
South Paris, Maine
West Paris, Maine
Poly-shamingMatt Cavanaugh wrote:
Gambetta was a syphilitic and a twat.
I read that as blaming the lack of sun exposure for the deficiency, not her skin tone as such? That would make more sense... but then again, intent isn't magic.Skep tickle wrote: Link is to FB:By "skin color" she's referring to "no tan" as a proxy for "little to no exposure to UV radiation". Her natural skin color being pale makes it (a) far easier for her to make adequate vitamin D from minimal UVA exposure, and (b) less likely a priori that she's vitamin D deficient, as compared with someone with more melanin.Ashley Miller wrote:Just saw my skin in the midday sun for the first time in a while. Vitamin d deficiency was come by honestly. There is no color in any of my skin, wrist or leg is the same as forearm or shoulder. Yeesh, I've always been pale, but this is new.
Fuck me sideways with a rusty gay redhead and call me Timothy.Really? wrote:Holy shit. I just ran into Giliell on another site. Look at the stupid thing she said on this anti-Sad Puppies article:
http://nkjemisin.com/2015/04/not-the-af ... re-making/
Meritocracy is impossible. "Better" and "best" are ONLY social constructs and have no grounding in reality.Giliell
April 11, 2015 • 4:56 pm
The belief in a “meritocracy†must be among the weirdest religious beliefs out there. The firm belief that there isn’t only 1 person who’s “objectively bestâ€, but that also other people can objectively determine who that is.
Especially when talking about literature.
Usually, every person nominated for the Hugo would be more than worthy of winning it. And for every person nominated there are certainly 10 or 100 who would equally merit a nomination.
There is no “objective†list of top 10 stories/authors/editors/whatever and you simply count down to ten. There is more like a very vague bar you have to jump and the rest depends on who gets noticed. Which is where those guys got their affirmative action. And now people are actively paying attention to books by people who don’t get the benefit of the permanent spotlight. And look and behold, they find works of high quality written by people who are not white guys. Works that are not “objectively best†because that doesn’t exist, but works that are worthy.
The “puppies†have greatly shaped my reading list over the last years. Whoever was their object of hate du jour turned out to be a talented author with interesting stories to tell.
Fuck you, you useless fucking chimp. Carry on explaining why meritocracy has held you - amazing, special you - back from becoming Professor of Hyper Intelligent Science at the University of Amazing, Awesometown, Wonderfornia.The firm belief that there isn’t only 1 person who’s “objectively bestâ€, but that also other people can objectively determine who that is.
We can thank non-existent god that they won't have kids. Imagine a child raised by these cunts.HoneyWagon wrote:I just came across this.
I have seen the idea before (on twitter of course), but how would this work?
No gender specific names (which most are) until the child can speak and articulate gender?
No gender related pronouns?
Will the birth certificate say "Female genitaled" rather than "female"?
IT was a cunt-move and a stupid-cunt move. Organizations with hundreds of thousands of followers have called UMM over shit at least as bad, to the general public, if not worse. And not a damn thing has happened beyond UMM actually being happy for the attention.Kirbmarc wrote:What Mykeru did that time wasn't exactly supported by the Pit, though. I think that's the reason why he flounced.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Mykeru did call Myers' university. I don't know if that's what she's referring to. On the other hand, Myers posted Skep's name and place of work encouraging his monkeys to contact her employers.Brive1987 wrote: On Twitter she said "someone" emailed her workplace.
Ergo Slymepit.
Yes, that might very well be a case of "but they do it too", but at least it's justified.
I thought that an ad on a newspaper could have been fine (depending on what was written on it) but calling UMM was pointless and petty.
Ok, that was harsh. Rude, even.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Enough of the "trans* activists"? Please? My window is just a few feet away, and I miss skydiving.
*dudes in wigs.
Oh, not before dinner. So very many wrong...ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Should the word "motherfucker" be considered kink-shaming?
Greta?
She'll get a job at Walmart. They'll hire pretty much anyone.Lsuoma wrote:What's going to happen to freeloaders like Watson when they're no longer able to freeload?
Oh yes I can support trans* rights without accepting anti-science horseshit. Fuck off, Sophia.HoneyWagon wrote:I just came across this.
I have seen the idea before (on twitter of course), but how would this work?
No gender specific names (which most are) until the child can speak and articulate gender?
No gender related pronouns?
Will the birth certificate say "Female genitaled" rather than "female"?
Followed that link, and skimmed down her FB wall. So many afflictions; so little sympathy!windy wrote:I read that as blaming the lack of sun exposure for the deficiency, not her skin tone as such? That would make more sense... but then again, intent isn't magic.Skep tickle wrote: Link is to FB:By "skin color" she's referring to "no tan" as a proxy for "little to no exposure to UV radiation". Her natural skin color being pale makes it (a) far easier for her to make adequate vitamin D from minimal UVA exposure, and (b) less likely a priori that she's vitamin D deficient, as compared with someone with more melanin.Ashley Miller wrote:Just saw my skin in the midday sun for the first time in a while. Vitamin d deficiency was come by honestly. There is no color in any of my skin, wrist or leg is the same as forearm or shoulder. Yeesh, I've always been pale, but this is new.
