Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Tribble]

"Is there even the slightest evidence of any pharyngula regular either admitting rape or supporting an admitted rapist?"

Well PZ, Ashley Miller and Jadehawk?
Is there?

Careful there, I used the same argument and Tony! The Queer Shoop called me a "fucknugget".

Ogvorbis is totally just a brainwashed victim and there can be no discussion about his degree of responsibility, what he could do to set things right instead of receiving pounce hugs, and whether it isn't just a tad hypocritical to accuse others of supporting rapists when they merely support the idea of "innocent until proven guilty" and of a legal standard decided upon by the legal system and not by bloggers, while you actually supported a self-confessed rapist in your midst.

Alleged tragedy aside, since the vast majority of rape victims don't turn into rapists, there is no reason to give him a 'victim' pass. Yet he gets one.

Whereas someone such as myself who believes the justice system is the best (and really only) place to investigate, try and (if guilty) convict rapists, I'm somehow a rape apologist. Even though I learned my lessons from the obviousness of this Moral Panic, the '10's equivalent of the repressed memories and the Satanic Ritual Abuse panics, by simply observing the hysteria comes nowhere near the reality.

Further the evidence, based on sentencing, indicates that we live in anything but a 'rape culture' as rape is considered the second worst crime in the US. In the US we get the following sentences (mean average):

Murder -- 244 months
Rape -- 138 months
Robbery -- 71 months (this is violent robbery, not burglary)
Aggravated assault -- 41 months
Drug trafficking -- 38 months
General weapon offenses -- 32 months

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fssc06st.pdf


Further, with all the Rape Shield laws in the US, it's extremely difficult to discredit 'victims' who have a history of pressing rape charges against numerous men after break-ups (Marv Albert, etc.) or where we have such a presumptoin of guilt that even the innocent (despite the ludicrousness of the victim's allegation) feel it's better to plead guilty even when innocent (Brian Banks). We even see the Title IX equivalent in the Columbia lawsuit where the 'rapist' was denied his ability to present a full case that would further show the 'victim' was anything but a 'victim' (even though he did prevail).

And of course, we have full blown panics like Duke & UVA.

So, of course, I'm not interested in trial by blog. If I were, the Duke boys would all be in jail sharing cells with the UVA frat boys.

But I'm not because I'm a grown-up and I understand that women, like men, will fucking lie about horrible things. Some because they're nuts. Others because they want to punish their ex's. Others because they like the attention. Others because they want to protect their reputations.

[Ape+lust]

Myers has been painting the 'Pit as a Stormfront-type site to some of his ol' "buddies" from ScienceBlogs for a couple of years now. His dishonesty knows no bounds, especially if it serves the purpose of smearing people he doesn't like. He's been this way for a long time too … well before Pharyngula days. :bjarte:

Yup! Plus, he's in his 4th year of stewing over the Pit and still won't admit why we do what we do.

We're not here because he's stupid and wrong, that's inconceivable. Instead, we must be MRAs. Wait... Libertarians. No, Juggalos. Gamers. Rape apologists. Marc Lepines. (Next week... neocons)

http://imgur.com/hqN5KAL.jpg

[Eskarina]

http://imgur.com/yYpWwe1.jpg

In the name of all orang-utans I most strongly object and protest. :snooty:

Ook!

[Kirbmarc]

Myers has been painting the 'Pit as a Stormfront-type site to some of his ol' "buddies" from ScienceBlogs for a couple of years now. His dishonesty knows no bounds, especially if it serves the purpose of smearing people he doesn't like. He's been this way for a long time too … well before Pharyngula days. :bjarte:

Yup! Plus, he's in his 4th year of stewing over the Pit and still won't admit why we do what we do.

We're not here because he's stupid and wrong, that's inconceivable. Instead, we must be MRAs. Wait... Libertarians. No, Juggalos. Gamers. Rape apologists. Marc Lepines. (Next week... neocons)

http://imgur.com/hqN5KAL.jpg

No, next week we're Nazi white supremacists. Evidence: Steersman (even though he's not) and the caricatures from Stormffront posted here to make fun of that claim.

[Ape+lust]

http://imgur.com/yYpWwe1.jpg

In the name of all orang-utans I most strongly object and protest. :snooty:

Ook!

Rest easy, that's not even an ape. It's a genetically modified turnip.

[some guy]

... What was Jadehawk's intended point?
That it was wrong for Nugent to complain about Myers because slymepitters also complain about Myers, and that slymepitters are bad because some of them have posted rude comments about her friends - or even that there are some examples of unambiguous racism (courtesy of steersman) on the slymepit (plus many comments condemning steersmans racism that Jadehawk and Myers curiously failed to spot)?...

FWIW, Steersman's arguments about the word "nigger" is not, IMO, unambiguous evidence of his racism. I do think he is oblivious to some strong counter arguments to his thesis (and so he comes across as a bit bull-headed). But he does bring up (commonly known) uses of the word that are counter to the blanket definition that "all use of the word is racist", and I think the discussion does have (some) purpose of trying to pin down the logic of just when it's use is racist, and when it is not.

But just because Steers seems to pushing hard to get to a "if any use is not racist, then all use is not racist" definition doesn't constitute evidence that he is racist. Unless I've missed something, the use of the word on this forum has been limited to an exploration of why (or why not) it is racist in a variety of contexts. I don't recall him actually using the word in a racist way, or using his definition to support the clearly racist use by another.

And although I probably could have used a lot less of the discussion, those making counter points to his position have helped me understand things better.

[Ericb]

Nice to see the PTSD is under control.

She needs to be on the internet for her Twitter Shock to be triggered,

[Eskarina]

http://imgur.com/yYpWwe1.jpg

In the name of all orang-utans I most strongly object and protest. :snooty:

Ook!

Rest easy, that's not even an ape. It's a genetically modified turnip.

:lol:

[bhoytony]

Goddamn it! Gin blossom.... Stupid I-phone spell correct....

Using that reference for RW makes me think of this, written by an alcoholic who committed suicide:

Gin Blossoms:
Lost Horizons

The last horizons I can see are filled with bars and factories
and in them all we fight to stay awake...
Drink enough of anything to make this world look new again
Drunk drunk drunk in the gardens and the graves
She had nothing left to say so she said she loved me
I stood there grateful for the lie...
Drink enough of anything to make this girl look new again
Drunk drunk drunk in the gardens and the graves
Turn summer trees to bones and ice
Turn insect songs against the night
With words we build and words we break
I'm drunk drunk drunk in the gardens and the graves...
Maybe I could use you to reassure myself
I wouldn't wish this indecision on anybody else
Drink enough of anything to make this world look new again
And when the sin smiles how could it be wrong
The last horizons I could see are now resigned to memories
I never thought I'd still be here today...
Drink enough of anything to make myself look new again
Drunk drunk drunk in the gardens and the graves



[youtube]N0V2rFw5wbY[/youtube]

[debaser71]

You know when I was a kid I'd go to my local Comic Book Convention at some cruddy Holiday Inn. There were no people dressed up in bikini's pretending to be super heroes. It was just a place to go to buy comics that were hard to find in the local stores. These days CONS are big parties with serious political overtones. Do people still buy and sell comic books at comic book conventions? I feel like this trend of CONS is going to end soon. YMMV.

[Dick Strawkins]

... What was Jadehawk's intended point?
That it was wrong for Nugent to complain about Myers because slymepitters also complain about Myers, and that slymepitters are bad because some of them have posted rude comments about her friends - or even that there are some examples of unambiguous racism (courtesy of steersman) on the slymepit (plus many comments condemning steersmans racism that Jadehawk and Myers curiously failed to spot)?...

FWIW, Steersman's arguments about the word "nigger" is not, IMO, unambiguous evidence of his racism. I do think he is oblivious to some strong counter arguments to his thesis (and so he comes across as a bit bull-headed). But he does bring up (commonly known) uses of the word that are counter to the blanket definition that "all use of the word is racist", and I think the discussion does have (some) purpose of trying to pin down the logic of just when it's use is racist, and when it is not.

But just because Steers seems to pushing hard to get to a "if any use is not racist, then all use is not racist" definition doesn't constitute evidence that he is racist. Unless I've missed something, the use of the word on this forum has been limited to an exploration of why (or why not) it is racist in a variety of contexts. I don't recall him actually using the word in a racist way, or using his definition to support the clearly racist use by another.

And although I probably could have used a lot less of the discussion, those making counter points to his position have helped me understand things better.

He has admitted he thinks its OK to use the word 'nigger' as an insult against any person of just one race (African origin) if that person did something that deserved an insult, giving the specific example of Crommunist.
What the hell is that if not racist?

Perhaps my feelings about the innocence of his intent are perhaps influenced by him saying on several occasions that all muslims should be deported from the west.

Of course 'muslim' is not a race but the idea of deporting them all - no matter what their actions- is certainly bigoted if not outright xenophobic.

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

[Shatterface as Guest]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

If it were just his stupid defence of the word 'nigger' that was the problem he'd be easier to ignore but there's also his obnoxious attempt to present himself as a mediator between the Pit and SJWs, to present himself above our 'tribalism' and to repeatedly defend things that Opie and Myers have said.

He's never once extended the concept of 'charity' to anything we say but he'll argue that Myers wasn't actually calling Shermer a rapist in the grenade post despite Myers claiming anyone who questioned the account is a rape denier and rape apologist.

Shatterface

[Shatterface as Guest]

You know when I was a kid I'd go to my local Comic Book Convention at some cruddy Holiday Inn. There were no people dressed up in bikini's pretending to be super heroes. It was just a place to go to buy comics that were hard to find in the local stores. These days CONS are big parties with serious political overtones. Do people still buy and sell comic books at comic book conventions? I feel like this trend of CONS is going to end soon. YMMV.

eBay killed cons as a marketplace for comics.

Politics and cosplay filled the gap.

Shatterface

[paddybrown]

You know when I was a kid I'd go to my local Comic Book Convention at some cruddy Holiday Inn. There were no people dressed up in bikini's pretending to be super heroes. It was just a place to go to buy comics that were hard to find in the local stores. These days CONS are big parties with serious political overtones. Do people still buy and sell comic books at comic book conventions? I feel like this trend of CONS is going to end soon. YMMV.

Funny you should say that. I'm going to have a table at the MCM Comic Con next weekend, where I will (try to) sell my comics what I made. I'll be in a special little ghetto area of the con called the "Comic Village", hidden at the back of a great big hall full of stalls selling all sorts of pop culture tat, the vast majority of which will have nothing at all to do with comics. The special guests are all actors, including two from EastEnders.

I could complain about that, that comics are being squeezed out of an event that's supposedly a "comic con". To be honest though, I don't mind at all. My comics seem to appeal less to comic fans than they do to normal humans, so the more punters there are from outside the comic book subculture the better I do. Best shows I've done have been pop-culture shows like MCM, or arty shows like zine, book-art and craft fairs.

[Kirbmarc]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

Spinning dancer fanatic.

Anyway the huge problem with Steersman is that in both cases (slurs and deportations) he refuses to admit that analogies aren't a perfect way to describe reality and that differences between two cases that present similarities can be more relevant than the similarities themselves.

Palm may be to hand what sole is to foot, but that since people are socially allowed to touch each other people's palms so they must also allowed to touch each other's soles you're not making much sense. And if you argue that palm is to hand what buttocks is to back you're following a very loose analogy. Not to mention that trying to argue that palm is to hand what chin is to neck is plainly nonsensical.

So there are good analogies that work in a limited fashion, bad analogies, and nonsensical analogies. Just because you declare that "nigger is to racism what cunt is to sexism" it doesn't mean that your analogies works perfectly, that it works at all, or that it makes any kind of sense.

[Bhurzum]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

Spinning dancer fanatic.

Anyway the huge problem with Steersman is that in both cases (slurs and deportations) he refuses to admit that analogies aren't a perfect way to describe reality and that differences between two cases that present similarities can be more relevant than the similarities themselves.

Palm may be to hand what sole is to foot, but that since people are socially allowed to touch each other people's palms so they must also allowed to touch each other's soles you're not making much sense. And if you argue that palm is to hand what buttocks is to back you're following a very loose analogy. Not to mention that trying to argue that palm is to hand what chin is to neck is plainly nonsensical.

So there are good analogies that work in a limited fashion, bad analogies, and nonsensical analogies. Just because you declare that "nigger is to racism what cunt is to sexism" it doesn't mean that your analogies works perfectly, that it works at all, or that it makes any kind of sense.

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple?

I should point out though, I'm equally disappointed whenever I hear people say cracker, honkey, snowbeast, polar bear etc. Then again, I'm one of those idiots who thinks non-whites can be just as racist as whites.

Dictionary definitions can be so inconvenient. Small wonder that certain people tend to redefine words and criticize others for clinging to well established definitions.

For the record - I quite enjoy Steers and his wordy rants. Not saying I agree with everything he says but I enjoy his posts nonetheless and don't think he's a bad person.

Just my 2 cents...

[Kirbmarc]

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple?

That's my point. Within a wider societal context it's also blatantly obvious that offering someone a hand to shake is considered the norm, while offering them a foot to wrestle with their foot is considered weird. And yet "palm is to hand what foot is to sole".

[Steersman]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

Spinning dancer fanatic.

Anyway the huge problem with Steersman is that in both cases (slurs and deportations) he refuses to admit that analogies aren't a perfect way to describe reality and that differences between two cases that present similarities can be more relevant than the similarities themselves. ....

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple? ....

In some contexts, yes. In others - maybe, maybe not. Somewhat apropos:
Chris Rock - Black People VS. Niggaz (Bring the Pain 1996)

You might check the comments - seem to recollect that more than a few were quite illuminating.

I should point out though, I'm equally disappointed whenever I hear people say cracker, honkey, snowbeast, polar bear etc. Then again, I'm one of those idiots who thinks non-whites can be just as racist as whites.

Dictionary definitions can be so inconvenient. Small wonder that certain people tend to redefine words and criticize others for clinging to well established definitions.

Tend to agree with you about "cracker" and the like. However, I think Chris Rock's point is that some of any group can, as a subgroup, exhibit "problematic" modes of behaviour that can, depending on context, justify various epithets that supposedly target or reference the "super-group" - whether the epithet is "cracker", "nigger", "cunt", "faggot", "kike", etc., etc.

And agree about the redefinition of words - which frequently looks rather self-serving at best.

For the record - I quite enjoy Steers and his wordy rants. Not saying I agree with everything he says but I enjoy his posts nonetheless and don't think he's a bad person.

Just my 2 cents...

Thanks. :-) FWIW, I got a boot out of your "Cheap Shots" 'shop - I'm sure it will get at least an honourable mention if not being destined for star billing on the marquee in some Storify listing all of those here. ;-)

[Shatterface as Guest]

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple?

That's my point. Within a wider societal context it's also blatantly obvious that offering someone a hand to shake is considered the norm, while offering them a foot to wrestle with their foot is considered weird. And yet "palm is to hand what foot is to sole".

And this is my issue. Meanings aren't determined by analogy but by use.

Shatterface

[Lsuoma]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

If it were just his stupid defence of the word 'nigger' that was the problem he'd be easier to ignore but there's also his obnoxious attempt to present himself as a mediator between the Pit and SJWs, to present himself above our 'tribalism' and to repeatedly defend things that Opie and Myers have said.

He's never once extended the concept of 'charity' to anything we say but he'll argue that Myers wasn't actually calling Shermer a rapist in the grenade post despite Myers claiming anyone who questioned the account is a rape denier and rape apologist.

Shatterface

Steerzo is Damion Lite?

Oh, and I was listening to NPR this morning and they were talking about the rhyme Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Mo, and mentioned that in the past the second line included a racial slur. Thinking about this, I can't recall an single example I've come across where the phrase "racial slur" is used to describe anything other than "nigger". Is it ever used for kike, wop, or dago, or is it simply the next in the transition from nigger to N-word to racial slur to ???

[Lsuoma]

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple?

That's my point. Within a wider societal context it's also blatantly obvious that offering someone a hand to shake is considered the norm, while offering them a foot to wrestle with their foot is considered weird. And yet "palm is to hand what foot is to sole".

You are obviously no Bokononist.

[Tapir]

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple?

That's my point. Within a wider societal context it's also blatantly obvious that offering someone a hand to shake is considered the norm, while offering them a foot to wrestle with their foot is considered weird. And yet "palm is to hand what foot is to sole".

You are obviously no Bokononist.

Pit as Karass?

:think:

[Skep tickle]

Maybe PZ could post this for Pharyngulation:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04 ... -thompson/

(Caveat that I can't actually get beyond the first question on the quiz in either Firefox or Safari, the browser just hangs)

[RebeccaB]

You know when I was a kid I'd go to my local Comic Book Convention at some cruddy Holiday Inn. There were no people dressed up in bikini's pretending to be super heroes. It was just a place to go to buy comics that were hard to find in the local stores. These days CONS are big parties with serious political overtones. Do people still buy and sell comic books at comic book conventions? I feel like this trend of CONS is going to end soon. YMMV.

I scrolled through the feedback thread on Calgary Expo's FB page, and concluded I would sooner try and climb Everest than ever go near such an event. [Note: until now, climbing Everest was about the last thing I could ever conceive of wanting to do.] Overpriced, overcrowded, endless lineups, outrageous prices for food and water, nowhere to sit down, conga lines shuffling through the merch areas, draconian rules inconsistently applied, 30 bucks for a 3-second photo-op with the stars, and I'm pretty sure someone mentioned 80 bucks for an autograph, but I can't be arsed to go back and check. Basically, a way to wring every last penny possible out of exhausted, herded, thirsty, hungry fans who had already paid handsomely for the privilege of being so exploited. I used to go to sf cons, as a writer and panellist, and I do not remember them being modelled quite so closely on the kill pens at an abbatoir. However, a lot of people also bubbled over about how wonderful it all was, so I guess tastes and tolerances differ.

PS - naturally, anybody on the thread who complained about the expulsion of the Honey Badger Brigade was jeered at and shouted down.

[JackSkeptic]

I'm currently running the Pathfinder (D and D spin off) campaign called Reign of Winter. Anyway that's all very boring. But in Book 3, which we have started, there is a god who hates women and so do his cultists. There are also Misogyny Demons.

According to idiots like Myers the above should anger me but it does not anger me one bit because:

1. Paizo, the company who produces the adventures, is great at promoting SJ issues without pushing it down anyone's throats. It is trivial to remove such stuff if someone really wanted to and they do it in a way that allows that. Very smart as people do not feel they are being lectured to.

2. Misogyny does exist so it is in line with gods in these sorts of games that often represent a particular human emotion or belief such as love, hate, jealousy etc etc.

3. It is not forced. It fits well with the overall story arc for that book. Women can certainly be and are baddies too (The Big Bad is a woman-Two of them actually)


What people like Myers fail to grasp is:

1. People loath their attitude much more than what they claim to believe.

2. They are two faced bigots in everything they do or say. They lie and cheat which gives a great sense of injustice to their victims.

3. They pontificate and infest subjects (such as gaming which is a complex, highly diverse and wide reaching hobby) on which they have no knowledge at all.

I do not want someone like Myers representing me in any way. He and his ilk harm people and I want no part of that.

[JackSkeptic]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

Spinning dancer fanatic.

Anyway the huge problem with Steersman is that in both cases (slurs and deportations) he refuses to admit that analogies aren't a perfect way to describe reality and that differences between two cases that present similarities can be more relevant than the similarities themselves.

Palm may be to hand what sole is to foot, but that since people are socially allowed to touch each other people's palms so they must also allowed to touch each other's soles you're not making much sense. And if you argue that palm is to hand what buttocks is to back you're following a very loose analogy. Not to mention that trying to argue that palm is to hand what chin is to neck is plainly nonsensical.

So there are good analogies that work in a limited fashion, bad analogies, and nonsensical analogies. Just because you declare that "nigger is to racism what cunt is to sexism" it doesn't mean that your analogies works perfectly, that it works at all, or that it makes any kind of sense.

Personally, within a wider societal context, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone with a working brain that "nigger" is a no-no. Maybe I'm just too simple?

I should point out though, I'm equally disappointed whenever I hear people say cracker, honkey, snowbeast, polar bear etc. Then again, I'm one of those idiots who thinks non-whites can be just as racist as whites.

Dictionary definitions can be so inconvenient. Small wonder that certain people tend to redefine words and criticize others for clinging to well established definitions.

For the record - I quite enjoy Steers and his wordy rants. Not saying I agree with everything he says but I enjoy his posts nonetheless and don't think he's a bad person.

Just my 2 cents...

Words are a means to communicate. He can try and communicate to people round my area and get first hand knowledge of why the use of the word 'Nigger' is deeply offensive to many people. The issue is not some intellectual exercise. Language is a matter or practical usage and no mental gymnastics will change that one bit.

[Tribble]

Maybe PZ could post this for Pharyngulation:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04 ... -thompson/

(Caveat that I can't actually get beyond the first question on the quiz in either Firefox or Safari, the browser just hangs)

50%, though it should have been 60% except I had a miss-click. Funny how close they are, though.

[Steersman]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

Spinning dancer fanatic. ....

:lol: Oh noes! The worst of the worst of the worst! Sir! ;-)

Anyway the huge problem with Steersman is that in both cases (slurs and deportations) he refuses to admit that analogies aren't a perfect way to describe reality and that differences between two cases that present similarities can be more relevant than the similarities themselves.

....
So there are good analogies that work in a limited fashion, bad analogies, and nonsensical analogies. Just because you declare that "nigger is to racism what cunt is to sexism" it doesn't mean that your analogies works perfectly, that it works at all, or that it makes any kind of sense.

Don't think I've ever argued that all elements are identical in any and all analogies - seem to recollect that I've emphasized that there can be, or are, many similarities and many differences.

However, an analogy doesn't have to be perfect - though I wonder what that would mean: a 3-4-5 triangle is perfectly analogous to another 3-4-5 triangle? - for it to work. Their purposes are generally to transfer an understanding of some fundamental underlying processes in the "source" to the "target" to at least suggest that similar processes may be in play in the latter as well - as in the analogy between the solar system and Rutherford's model of the atom: very wide disparities in magnitudes of physical elements, but some similarities in processes that suggest avenues for research.

But somewhat en passant, while the analogy between, for example, "nigger" and "cunt" may not be perfect, one might argue that the differences you suggest are critical and that refute the claim they're analogous might be more due to the frequency of occurrence of each of those epithets rather than to the underlying mechanisms.

[Tribble]

Words are a means to communicate. He can try and communicate to people round my area and get first hand knowledge of why the use of the word 'Nigger' is deeply offensive to many people. The issue is not some intellectual exercise. Language is a matter or practical usage and no mental gymnastics will change that one bit.

I think he should go to Watts or Harlem and try to explain it there. Sort of a field test as it were...

[Steersman]

Perhaps you can suggest a simpler way to describe someone who thinks all muslims should be deported and who thinks its appropriate to insult a black person by calling them a nigger if they annoyed him? :think:

If it were just his stupid defence of the word 'nigger' that was the problem he'd be easier to ignore but there's also his obnoxious attempt to present himself as a mediator between the Pit and SJWs, to present himself above our 'tribalism' and to repeatedly defend things that Opie and Myers have said.

He's never once extended the concept of 'charity' to anything we say but he'll argue that Myers wasn't actually calling Shermer a rapist in the grenade post despite Myers claiming anyone who questioned the account is a rape denier and rape apologist.

Shatterface

Steerzo is Damion Lite?

Busted. Or sitting on the fence together ...

Oh, and I was listening to NPR this morning and they were talking about the rhyme Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Mo, and mentioned that in the past the second line included a racial slur. Thinking about this, I can't recall an single example I've come across where the phrase "racial slur" is used to describe anything other than "nigger". Is it ever used for kike, wop, or dago, or is it simply the next in the transition from nigger to N-word to racial slur to ???

Of maybe some interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Ithink that article was probably written by some SJWer but it shows the term has a broader use than just to "nigger". But, somewhat apropos, you might take a look at a related routine by the [deceased] comic Lenny Bruce on the topic

[Charles MacGruder]

I feel like I've just been one and one with Oolon, except toxicpath is one of our crowd.

[Charles MacGruder]

Correction: latsot. It took the exact form of an argument with latsot.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

My 2009 drummer got assaulted at his place yesterday, along with his singer, by 3 masked guys. Beaten with a gun's cross while being threatened to have his tongue cut off. Turns out the former flat tenant was a drug dealer as well as a peddler in stolen cars. Police advice: don't go back to the flat, like, ever. 24 sutures to the face.

2015 is a fucking charming year, isn't it?

[Kirbmarc]

Their purposes are generally to transfer an understanding of some fundamental underlying processes in the "source" to the "target" to at least suggest that similar processes may be in play in the latter as well - as in the analogy between the solar system and Rutherford's model of the atom: very wide disparities in magnitudes of physical elements, but some similarities in processes that suggest avenues for research.

That's true, but Rutherford's model of the atom is also an example of the flaws of analogies: it was good up to a point, but further research suggested that the analogy between the solar system and a "mini-solar system" model of the atom was unable to explain some results, and the model was abandoned.

But somewhat en passant, while the analogy between, for example, "nigger" and "cunt" may not be perfect, one might argue that the differences you suggest are critical and that refute the claim they're analogous might be more due to the frequency of occurrence of each of those epithets rather than to the underlying mechanisms.

Frequency of occurrence coupled with the frequency of which kind of people are targeted.

Meaning is decided by social interactions, so yes, it depends on how frequently a word is used in a specific context and with a specific kind of referent.

There's no "underlying mechanism" by which the string of sounds that produces the word "cat" (incidentally, [kæt] in most dialects of English) is understood to refer to a particular species of domesticated feline. And yet all speakers of English who have been exposed to the word understand its meaning. Why? Because it's used in many different contexts which refer to animals who belong to a particular species of domesticated felines (or their fictional representation).

Language is a social tool. It's use is shaped by society, and largely by frequency of use from people in various contexts.

[Bhurzum]

Of maybe some interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Holy crap!

I was skimming through that and spotted this:

Ali Baba
(US) an Iraqi suspected of criminal activity.[5]

The only people I've ever heard saying that were Iraqi guys! We employed a lot of locals (a large patrol base, Maysan province in Southern Iraq) and they constantly accused each other of nefarious activities - sometimes jokingly, sometimes not. They were very competitive and would go to amazing lengths to get each other sacked in a bid to get better/easier jobs.

Anyway, our shower block maintenance guy (nicknamed "George Michael") spoke excellent English and would happily teach us little snippets of useful Arabic/gestures etc. He explained the "Ali Baba" term and if memory serves correctly, it's a pretty traditional (and childish) bit of slang.

Interesting that the Wiki entry attributes it to the US.

Note: I've served alongside many different nationalities (Iraq and elsewhere) and even though I've heard countless derogatory terms for Iraqi's, I've not once heard a non-Iraqi use Ali Baba.

[Billie from Ockham]

I feel like I've just been one and one with Oolon, except toxicpath is one of our crowd.

You exhibited excessive patience.

[Kirbmarc]

Correction: latsot. It took the exact form of an argument with latsot.

At least toxicpath didn't tell you to fuck off, only to then reply to another tweet and call you obsessive, and when you ask him why he replied after telling you to fuck off, he didn't tell you to fuck off again.

Toxicpath seems just a bit thick: he understands that that assumption of logical positivism is self-refuting but keep moving the goalposts and tries to say that empiricism isn't self-refuting and therefore the assumption isn't self-refuting

The comic calls it "scientism", which is a huge mistake on the part of the author of the comic, and so it could have misled toxicpath at first. Not after you explained him what was going on.

Latsot is just as thick if not more but he's also pretty unpleasant to deal with.

[feathers]

They made their play for power, railed against the perceived old guard and now appears that they have lost.

In good Stalinist tradition, they should have been made to walk the corridor and wait for their neckshot.

In Game of Thrones style, they should be hanged, drawn and quartered.

Maybe we live in the wrong time.

(o hai jadehawk!)

[Charles MacGruder]

I feel like I've just been one and one with Oolon, except toxicpath is one of our crowd.

You exhibited excessive patience.

It ended far more spectacularly than I could have expected (I'm not sure how to embed tweets properly so here goes...)

[Charles MacGruder]

Correction: latsot. It took the exact form of an argument with latsot.

At least toxicpath didn't tell you to fuck off, only to then reply to another tweet and call you obsessive, and when you ask him why he replied after telling you to fuck off, he didn't tell you to fuck off again.

Toxicpath seems just a bit thick: he understands that that assumption of logical positivism is self-refuting but keep moving the goalposts and tries to say that empiricism isn't self-refuting and therefore the assumption isn't self-refuting

The comic calls it "scientism", which is a huge mistake on the part of the author of the comic, and so it could have misled toxicpath at first. Not after you explained him what was going on.

Latsot is just as thick if not more but he's also pretty unpleasant to deal with.

toxicpath does seem like a perfectly nice, normal guy.

and the conversation couldn't have ended better.

[Charles MacGruder]

My 2009 drummer got assaulted at his place yesterday, along with his singer, by 3 masked guys. Beaten with a gun's cross while being threatened to have his tongue cut off. Turns out the former flat tenant was a drug dealer as well as a peddler in stolen cars. Police advice: don't go back to the flat, like, ever. 24 sutures to the face.

2015 is a fucking charming year, isn't it?

Sorry to hear that Phil.

Any luck with the Vikings audition yet?

[Guestus Aurelius]

My 2009 drummer got assaulted at his place yesterday, along with his singer, by 3 masked guys. Beaten with a gun's cross while being threatened to have his tongue cut off. Turns out the former flat tenant was a drug dealer as well as a peddler in stolen cars. Police advice: don't go back to the flat, like, ever. 24 sutures to the face.

2015 is a fucking charming year, isn't it?

Yikes.

[Kirbmarc]

A quote from RationalWiki:

Modern political religions may reject Christianity, but they cannot do without demonology. The Jacobins, the Bolsheviks and the Nazis all believed in vast conspiracies against them, as do radical Islamists today. It is never the flaws of human nature that stand in the way of Utopia. It is the workings of evil forces.

Interesting. I wonder how well does the SJW ideology fare when compared to these other political religions.

Surely there isn't a conspiracy of evil forces at play, right? Surely the reason why the SJW utopia isn't a reality is just a flaw of human nature that must be accepted and worked around, not against....

Oh wait.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... 1Bc1H5keJA

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Or simply run his arguments around your favorite POC. I showed one of Steersman's rants to my niece, a young lady that is undeniably African-American. She was not impressed. It really is a WTF moment when you read some of his justifications out loud to someone that is actually affected by the word.

I would be interested to know if either you or she had actually read, with any comprehension at all, the article titled "The semantics of slurs: A refutation of coreferentialism" And likewise about the Chris Rock - a black guy, I might note (again) - YouTube videos I've linked to several times.

Well, FFS. Pop into the pit on my phone, and not logged in, so no Steersman block. And this little turd on the screen.

Okay, Steersman, I did read this little screed. First, let me point out I can pull out that I can find some climatologists that dispute global warming. Second, while the author fairly convincingly makes the case (although so many typos in a paper set off alarm bells) that using the term "nigger" does not necessarily refer to all blacks, but a subset of blacks that fail to behave lawfully or morally, he uses this word AS USED BY OTHER BLACK PEOPLE. Nowhere does he say or imply that it is okay, not racist, or acceptable for YOU to use the word. Croom states that the word is used in a derogatory fashion for a subset, not all, group of people. That is fucking all he does, Mr. Fucking Comprehension. Nowhere does he say that it isn't racist, just not indicting of ALL the race.

And, really, Cris Rock as a source? Cris Rock is an entertainer. Not a linguist, philosopher, nor would a lot of African-Americans say that he gets to define their culture for them. He does not get to define the word. He tries to make it funny, because that is how he makes money. Further, I don't think he is endorsing the word for white people. He is using the word to describe, as a black man, the behavior of other black people.

So you have one paper, in strong defiance of current consensus, and a video that the same paper quotes extensively. You also have that paper not really bolstering YOUR use of the word, only the claim that it doesn't paint all members of the group with the same brush necessarily. Even that is not on firm ground, nor is there strong claim that the word isn't racist, but simply not universally racist.

Golly, it almost looks like you pulled a Carrier. Starting with a presupposition, you look for a tiny source to bolster your argument, even if it really isn't doing what you claim. Then you denigrate everybody else's reading comprehension. Weird, huh?

TL:DR Don't ever use the word "nigger" unless you are a black person.

Also, unless someone quotes your follow-up equivocations, I ain't gonna see it.

[Charles MacGruder]

The Steersman "nigger" conversation is such an easily ignorable mind virus, a conversation few here really want to be infected with. But look, now I've done it. I won't do it again. But here we are.

The flaws of human nature standing in the way of utopia.

[Shatterface as Guest]

WORLD: Meaning is determined by use, not analogy.

STEERS: Blah blah blah, analogy, blah blah blah.

WORLD: No, that's not how language works. Your analogies are irrelevant because meaning isn't determined by analogy but by use. It doesn't matter what analogy you use the premise that you can determine meaning by analogy is wrong.

STEERS: Analogy, analogy, bzzzzt, analogy.

WORLD: Oh, for fuck's sake...

Shatterface

[Kirbmarc]

I found Adam Croom on GoogleScholar and Academia.edu. He seems to be specialized, or rather single-minded, in the semantics and pragmatics of slurs. While that's not a bad thing per se, when you're an academic and your academic path is mostly focused on such a narrow field it's easy for you to be biased.

I'm not a "big name" in the field of linguistics by any possible stretch of the imagination, but my specialization is much less narrow.

[Charles MacGruder]

WORLD: Meaning is determined by use, not analogy.

STEERS: Blah blah blah, analogy, blah blah blah.

WORLD: No, that's not how language works. Your analogies are irrelevant because meaning isn't determined by analogy but by use. It doesn't matter what analogy you use the premise that you can determine meaning by analogy is wrong.

STEERS: Analogy, analogy, bzzzzt, analogy.

WORLD: Oh, for fuck's sake...

Shatterface

JADEHAWK: Look at how fucking racist WORLD is!

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Sincere apologies to the rest of the 'pit for getting sucked in again. "My head! Against the wall! One more time and it might come down!"

And Phil, sorry to hear about your friends.

[Charles MacGruder]

I found Adam Croom on GoogleScholar and Academia.edu. He seems to be specialized, or rather single-minded, in the semantics and pragmatics of slurs. While that's not a bad thing per se, when you're an academic and your academic path is mostly focused on such a narrow field it's easy for you to be biased.

I'm not a "big name" in the field of linguistics by any possible stretch of the imagination, but my specialization is much less narrow.

I had a linguistic textbook (O Grady Contemporary Linguistics) once and my sister stole it for college. I'll always wonder what might have been.

[John Greg]

Anyone who at this late date gets sucked into to the chthonic void of hell that is the Steers/nigger rhetorical black hole should be sentenced to a 100 comment "conversation" about reality with Latsot. It's endless, circular, and it matters not a whit, not a solitary, microscopic whit what you say: Steersmachine don't hear.

[feathers]

There are the 1x monthly red flag events.

Melody's 1x monthly red flag events?

:shock:

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Anyone who at this late date gets sucked into to the chthonic void of hell that is the Steers/nigger rhetorical black hole should be sentenced to a 100 comment "conversation" about reality with Latsot. It's endless, circular, and it matters not a whit, not a solitary, microscopic whit what you say: Steersmachine don't hear.

Yeah, and the worst thing is, I knew it and did it anyway. Double derp with derp sauce. I had read Croom, though, and I hate to see pitsters, even Steers, go full Carrier. Mea culpa.

I'm just cranky and sad that I didn't get Jadestalked. Although that sounds bad...

[feathers]

Oh great, we're in the nigger discussion again. Soon wotsisname will have to start killng kitties again.

What does Jadehawk have against kittens?

[Kirbmarc]

I'll always wonder what might have been.

I like working in this field, I have a decent pay and I'm doing some extra translation work. I've been lucky.

But linguistics is a field were SJWs run rampart. Usually they're more likely to be based on the Department of Social Sciences ,but there's some overflow at the linguistic level, like this paper which ignores possible reasons for the "bias" (such as culture and history in general) and attributes it to "the narrow diversity of Wikipedia editors".

[free thoughtpolice]

Bhurzum wrote:

Note: I've served alongside many different nationalities (Iraq and elsewhere) and even though I've heard countless derogatory terms for Iraqi's, I've not once heard a non-Iraqi use Ali Baba.

I recall seeing a documentary of the Iraqi war where an American soldier asks an Iraqi civilian whose house they were searching "where is Ali Baba?". The soldier was with a translator at the time and although in context he didn't appear to be using it as a slur, I did wonder whether the Iraqis would have been offended by it.
Perhaps the Steersbot could bet to the bottom of this? :think:

[fuzzy]

You are obviously no Bokononist.

Pit as Karass?


More likely a granfalloon. This is a Karass:
http://i.imgur.com/f9dKk6U.jpg
on the other hand ...

:think:

[fuzzy]

... aaaand a quote fail.

[Billie from Ockham]

Oh great, we're in the nigger discussion again. Soon wotsisname will have to start killng kitties again.

Oh, I'm done with kittens. It's now baby pandas. And I'm not killing them, either. I'm making them wish for death.

[Steersman]

Anyone who at this late date gets sucked into to the chthonic void of hell that is the Steers/nigger rhetorical black hole should be sentenced to a 100 comment "conversation" about reality with Latsot. It's endless, circular, and it matters not a whit, not a solitary, microscopic whit what you say: Steersmachine don't hear.

:-) Au contraire. I do hear, though supposedly sarcasm and nuance are somewhat beyond me. But one might argue it's the same way atheiests supposedly hear theists: the arguments simply don't hold much water.