Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

Old subthreads
some guy
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47281

Post by some guy »

Kirbmarc wrote:You could make the exact same argument about non-violent fundamentalist Christians who refuse to turn in anti-abortionist terrorists. Or about black people who don't "snitch" on their neighbours. Or about police officers which do not feel like reporting their colleagues (the "blue wall of silence"). The list goes on.
The police example doesn't fit with the others, as (unlike the others) their role in society does include a *duty* to investigate alleged crimes and ensure that the perpetrators are brought to justice.

IMO, on the continuum you have "failure to publicly condemn" at one end (an action that does nothing to help solve a crime, although nothing wrong with doing so), and "failure to do your duty" at the other (e.g., police turning a blind eye to criminal activity). In the middle are things that are arguably somewhat culpable. One has no legal duty to report the location of a known dangerous fugitive, but arguably has a moral/civic duty to do so (and so could be rightfully criticized for not doing so).

debaser71
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47282

Post by debaser71 »

Some people keep mentioning how gamergate is winning or that how gamergate handles SJW is how others should as well. Pish posh! (is t hat even a phrase?) Anytime I see gg in the news it's always negative. Here's an example of the first hit I get whwn I search for gamergate in goolge then click on news.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2207377/gamerg ... f-twitter/

Earlier today, constant harassment by supporters of the #GamerGate movement drove prominent game critic and outspoken person-of-color Tauriq Moosa to delete his Twitter account, according to a report from The Mary Sue. GamerGate’s attack and the fallout therof has since spawned a hashtag campaign, dubbed #IStandWithTauriq in support of Moosa, who also writes for publications including Polygon and The Guardian.

So what brought the wrath of GamerGate down on Mr. Moosa?
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Today, in the wake of Tauriq Moosa’s departure from Twitter, GamerGate has set out to poison the #IStandWithTauriq hashtag, filling it with hate, abuse and misinformation, and attacking anyone speaking up in support of Moosa. The tweets from GamerGate are sadly too inappropriate for publication anywhere, but here is a small sample of what his supporters have to say."

etc.

This is the standard sort of gg article.

Anyway w/e. I've noticed pushback too. Not enough yet though imo.

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47283

Post by comhcinc »

Bhurzum wrote: Yup, I get that. However, I'd be the first to criticize anyone who hid/protected a criminal regardless of flavor. Black, white, green, polka dot, whatever - we're all in this together.
Not a big fan of the underground railroad huh?

Scented Nectar
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47284

Post by Scented Nectar »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I think I broke my scrolling wheel. No hospitalization needed.
I hope you didn't join in that mud festival. I just read this morning that a ton of people doing that in Nice have gotten sick. With your bad luck, I read that and thought... oh no, Phil! Don't play in the mud! :(

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47285

Post by comhcinc »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I think I broke my scrolling wheel. No hospitalization needed.
I hope you didn't join in that mud festival. I just read this morning that a ton of people doing that in Nice have gotten sick. With your bad luck, I read that and thought... oh no, Phil! Don't play in the mud! :(
You say that and I just literal saw a story on it.

I think we can safely guess Phil was not running through a field of shit recently

:D

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47286

Post by comhcinc »

Btw this is where I got that info from early

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47287

Post by Kirbmarc »

comhcinc wrote:Btw this is where I got that info from early
But will "Bubba the Love Sponge Clem" be addressed as ""Bubba the Love Sponge Clem"?

Scented Nectar
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47288

Post by Scented Nectar »

Bhurzum wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:Your argument against Muslims is quite literally a white supremacist argument against black people.
I'm staying out of this mostly, but religion is not the same thing as race.

Being against detrimental cultural practices, such as religion-ordered violence, has nothing to do with physical features and is not racism.

Being against certain physical features (no matter what the culture or behaviours) IS racism.

I'm seeing the two things conflated a lot. I don't think there is anything wrong with having strong opinions against harmful cultural practices. I even think it's essential in order to improve the quality of life for everyone.

There is something wrong with being against certain physical attributes though. It's a very different thing.
See?

This is why I started following you on YT.

Well, that and the coffee, the delicious (if slightly weapons-grade) coffee!
If coffee were illegal, I'd be an impossible to reform criminal. I love that stuff. :)

And just for a bit more diversity in the caffeine movement, and so that no one thinks I'm plant speciesist, I'm going to make some Sweet Iced Tea today!

Scented Nectar
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47289

Post by Scented Nectar »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:Your argument against Muslims is quite literally a white supremacist argument against black people.
I'm staying out of this mostly, but religion is not the same thing as race.

Being against detrimental cultural practices, such as religion-ordered violence, has nothing to do with physical features and is not racism.

Being against certain physical features (no matter what the culture or behaviours) IS racism.

I'm seeing the two things conflated a lot. I don't think there is anything wrong with having strong opinions against harmful cultural practices. I even think it's essential in order to improve the quality of life for everyone.

There is something wrong with being against certain physical attributes though. It's a very different thing.
You are right in that religion isn't a race, and mocking Islam, for example, or criticizing it, can never be argued to be "racist" even if the mockery is crude (like a crudely drawn cow-pig who represents Mohammed as a pedophile, for example).

But James' argument isn't that hatred of Islam is equivalent to hatred of black people. James (and I, incidentally) are arguing not against criticism and mockery of Islam, but against the illiberal principle of "collective guilt".

James rightfully points out that Steersman's argument for a "population transfer" is exactly the same argument used by anyone who ascribes the guilt of specific crimes committed by specific people to an entire group which happens to share a trait with the perpetrators.

The argument of "collective guilt" is always wrong, no matter who uses it against whomever: white supremacists use it against black people, Steersman uses it against Muslims, radfems use it against men.

We should prosecute and severely punish Muslim who commit crimes (any crimes, including stalking and actually harassing- not "Twitter harassing" people in the street), and do not excuse those crimes because of their religion or as payback against the "Evil West". We should also feel free to criticize that ideology with any means without caring about the fainting couch brigade ready to cry racism at the first argument which criticizes Islam.

What is morally wrong for us to do is to lump together all people, guilty or innocent of any crime, and expel them from a country or treat them as second-class citizens just because they share a trait with some criminals. It doesn't matter whether that trait is race, religion, gender, or even ideology.

Only people who have actually committed crimes should be treated as criminals. Even people who support or agree with criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals unless they actually took part in some criminal activity. Lumping together people for their beliefs regardless of what they've actually done is highly illiberal: it's engaging in "thoughtcrime prevention", just like the SJWs want to do.

Ideas can be bad, horrible, stupid, bigoted and such. They aren't crimes. Criticize Islam, mock it, point out how certain branches are better than others, call out Muslim people on hypocrisy. But if you criminalize Islam itself like Steersman, and not just the crimes committed in the name of Islam, you're behaving exactly like the authoritarian dictators that the SJWs wish to be.
I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47290

Post by comhcinc »

Scented Nectar wrote:
There is something wrong with being against certain physical attributes though. It's a very different thing.
See?

This is why I started following you on YT.

Well, that and the coffee, the delicious (if slightly weapons-grade) coffee![/quote]
If coffee were illegal, I'd be an impossible to reform criminal. I love that stuff. :)

And just for a bit more diversity in the caffeine movement, and so that no one thinks I'm plant speciesist, I'm going to make some Sweet Iced Tea today![/quote]

To make that southern you need to add about another cup and a half of sugar.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47291

Post by comhcinc »

Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
I think that is a well thought out and easy to understand point. It is also completely different from what Steersman was talking about.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47292

Post by Scented Nectar »

comhcinc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I think I broke my scrolling wheel. No hospitalization needed.
I hope you didn't join in that mud festival. I just read this morning that a ton of people doing that in Nice have gotten sick. With your bad luck, I read that and thought... oh no, Phil! Don't play in the mud! :(
You say that and I just literal saw a story on it.

I think we can safely guess Phil was not running through a field of shit recently

:D
I guess his bad luck prevented a competing bad luck. :)

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47293

Post by John D »

Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
Thought crimes...hmmmmm.... I am against it. Forcing people to have certain religious beliefs.... I am against this too. Many of us have gone through periods in our life where we harbored vile and stupid thoughts.

and of course.... the best way to make someone a martyr and potential terrorist is to force them to lie about their religious beliefs.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47294

Post by Scented Nectar »

comhcinc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:If coffee were illegal, I'd be an impossible to reform criminal. I love that stuff. :)

And just for a bit more diversity in the caffeine movement, and so that no one thinks I'm plant speciesist, I'm going to make some Sweet Iced Tea today!
To make that southern you need to add about another cup and a half of sugar.
Your honor, I plead the twinkie defense. I only went on that rampage because this guy I know online told me to drink more sugar, you see. :lol:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47295

Post by Scented Nectar »

comhcinc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
I think that is a well thought out and easy to understand point. It is also completely different from what Steersman was talking about.
I have to admit though, that I haven't fully read all of Steers arguments, or all of the countering arguments. I skimmed and skipped a lot. I also haven't read that novel called Oregano.

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47296

Post by comhcinc »

Scented Nectar wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:If coffee were illegal, I'd be an impossible to reform criminal. I love that stuff. :)

And just for a bit more diversity in the caffeine movement, and so that no one thinks I'm plant speciesist, I'm going to make some Sweet Iced Tea today!
To make that southern you need to add about another cup and a half of sugar.
Your honor, I plead the twinkie defense. I only went on that rampage because this guy I know online told me to drink more sugar, you see. :lol:
Hey now I am just telling you how it's done in these neck of the woods.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47297

Post by Scented Nectar »

John D wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
Thought crimes...hmmmmm.... I am against it. Forcing people to have certain religious beliefs.... I am against this too. Many of us have gone through periods in our life where we harbored vile and stupid thoughts.

and of course.... the best way to make someone a martyr and potential terrorist is to force them to lie about their religious beliefs.
Well, it's just wishful thinking, since there is no realistic way to separate who thinks what, but I think it would be a valid thing to do. If one knows for sure that an applicant for immigration has bad intentions that would be detrimental to the country/society, then there should be no moral obligation to consider accepting them for immigration into the country. There is no sure way to know though. It could be the opposite. The applicant might be wanting to escape the unpleasant previous regime they were living under and love moving to the west where they finally have, and strongly appreciate, new freedoms.

screwtape
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47298

Post by screwtape »

comhcinc wrote: Hey now I am just telling you how it's done in these neck of the woods.
Last I heard, you were planning to do it in the neck of SN's wooded areas. How'd that go?

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47299

Post by comhcinc »

screwtape wrote:
comhcinc wrote: Hey now I am just telling you how it's done in these neck of the woods.
Last I heard, you were planning to do it in the neck of SN's wooded areas. How'd that go?

She is like every other woman in my life right now. Distant and seemingly unreachable.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47300

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

acathode wrote:
Further, the defense of excluding people of color from a fantasy game is nonsensical. We are talking about being comfortable with the inclusion of wraiths and magic, but not the mere existence of people of color. Accuracy and realism flew out the window with the harpies.
"Historically accurate" is another common defense for many awful actions in fiction; but also doesn’t make sense when you’re not talking about actual events or even the Planet Earth.
Apparently he don't even understand basic storytelling and suspension of disbelief, since he brings up the most stupid of stupid arguments, ie. fantasy = not needing realism and accuracy - and apparently he don't even understand the value of keeping true to the source material that makes up the basis of the whole Witcher universe.
For any fantasy or science fiction tale, it is essential that the teller ask of the listener but one suspension of disbelief, then play out the created world self-consistently. Thus , H.G. Wells begins with: I invented anti-gravity paint. He doesn't even bother to explain its scientific properties. But the rest of the story remains eminently plausible. Ann Rice asks, imagine vampires live in New Orleans. Halfway through, she doesn't say, oh, btw, the mayor and police dept. are all lizard aliens.


SJWs are seriously brain-damaged.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47301

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Billie from Ockham wrote:If I started the hashtag #NotYourDrizzt to complain about the token "good" dark elf in a series of books with myriad dad guys with dark skin, which of the following is most likely to happen:

1) my Twitter account would gain thousands of followers

2) my Twitter account would be banned

3) the BBC would invite me onto the radio

4) at least one serious R. A. Salvator fan would argue with me that Jarlaxle was also a good guy

5) Steersman would argue that "elf-nigger" is a compliment

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47302

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

KiwiInOz wrote: I'm a dual citizen of NZ (native) and Australia. How long before my Aussie citizenship is revoked for engaging in Slymepit?
Why isn't your 'nym Pharlap?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47303

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote: I say we start our own country, with blackjack and hookers!
Let's name it ... Nevada.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47304

Post by comhcinc »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Ann Rice asks, imagine vampires live in New Orleans. Halfway through, she doesn't say, oh, btw, the mayor and police dept. are all lizard aliens.
Yeah because at that point why bring real life in to it?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47305

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Kirbmarc wrote:
In general in the middle ages black people were a rarity in Europe. People knew that they existed, you could see some of them in the capitals and especially in the commercial districts and in the courts but not nearly as much as the SJWs claim. Many of those who the SJWs call "POCs" were North African Arabs or Berbers, not Sub-Saharan Africans.
In Wolfram's Parzival, Gamuret, a french knight, knocks up his french wife, who gives birth to Parzival. Then he goes adventuring in the Levant & 'marries' Belakane, a "dusky" princess. Gamuret knocks up Belakane, who gives birth to Feirefis. When Feirefis grows up, he travels to King Arthur's court, where he and Parzival joust and bash each other over the head until they discover they're step-brothers.

Feirefis = "piebald son", and is described as having splotches of white and black skin. That's how well Europeans c. AD 1230 knew about PoCs.

katamari Damassi
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47306

Post by katamari Damassi »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
In general in the middle ages black people were a rarity in Europe. People knew that they existed, you could see some of them in the capitals and especially in the commercial districts and in the courts but not nearly as much as the SJWs claim. Many of those who the SJWs call "POCs" were North African Arabs or Berbers, not Sub-Saharan Africans.
In Wolfram's Parzival, Gamuret, a french knight, knocks up his french wife, who gives birth to Parzival. Then he goes adventuring in the Levant & 'marries' Belakane, a "dusky" princess. Gamuret knocks up Belakane, who gives birth to Feirefis. When Feirefis grows up, he travels to King Arthur's court, where he and Parzival joust and bash each other over the head until they discover they're step-brothers.

Feirefis = "piebald son", and is described as having splotches of white and black skin. That's how well Europeans c. AD 1230 knew about PoCs.
He had vitiligo. Just like transwhite Michael Jackson.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47307

Post by feathers »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:For any fantasy or science fiction tale, it is essential that the teller ask of the listener but one suspension of disbelief, then play out the created world self-consistently. Thus , H.G. Wells begins with: I invented anti-gravity paint. He doesn't even bother to explain its scientific properties. But the rest of the story remains eminently plausible. Ann Rice asks, imagine vampires live in New Orleans. Halfway through, she doesn't say, oh, btw, the mayor and police dept. are all lizard aliens.
It was a bright, cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen. I once read the first editor to read that sentence wanted it corrected.

Gefan
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47308

Post by Gefan »

SkepticalCat wrote:Maybe there is a god....

[youtube]gHElzaKkmQY[/youtube]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry if ninja'd.
Curious. There wasn't a single Prius in that parade...

Sunder
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47309

Post by Sunder »

Oh hey, I actually know the place where that impact occurred.

Small world.

Gefan
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47310

Post by Gefan »

Kirbmarc wrote: ...But James' argument isn't that hatred of Islam is equivalent to hatred of black people. James (and I, incidentally) are arguing not against criticism and mockery of Islam, but against the illiberal principle of "collective guilt"...
Just so I understand this "collective guilt" concept, does it mean I get to blame all of you still engaging Steersman for Phil's broken scrolling finger, and for me having every morning resemble "Groundhog Day" where the role of Punxsutawney Phil is played by a rogue AI that has been exposed to too much Pat Condell?

comhcinc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47311

Post by comhcinc »

Gefan wrote:
Curious. There wasn't a single Prius in that parade...

Well they are a bunch of backward assholes. The funny thing to me is that for the last couple of years the way I understand it is if you had decent credit and a good down payment you could basically get an electric car, like a nissan leaf, for free between the state and federal rebates.

That ends today. Also gas is going up six cents starting tomorrow.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47312

Post by Cunning Punt »

Tony Parsehole wrote:HAHAHAHAHA
My sources indicate that Ophelia Benson banned Oolon after this exchange in the comments 20, 34, 43, 44:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/20505/
She doesn't mention the ban in the comments but replies to Oolon's private Tweets show she banned him for it.

HT- LazyRedux AKA Percy Trumpton AKA Lazy Savant
Says Oolon:

" I’ve always thought that if I was religious I’d be a fundamentalist, as logically if you accept the religion as true you should follow all its tenets."

Says it all.

AndrewV69
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47313

Post by AndrewV69 »

debaser71 wrote:Some people keep mentioning how gamergate is winning or that how gamergate handles SJW is how others should as well. Pish posh! (is t hat even a phrase?) Anytime I see gg in the news it's always negative. Here's an example of the first hit I get whwn I search for gamergate in goolge then click on news.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2207377/gamerg ... f-twitter/

Earlier today, constant harassment by supporters of the #GamerGate movement drove prominent game critic and outspoken person-of-color Tauriq Moosa to delete his Twitter account, according to a report from The Mary Sue. GamerGate’s attack and the fallout therof has since spawned a hashtag campaign, dubbed #IStandWithTauriq in support of Moosa, who also writes for publications including Polygon and The Guardian.

So what brought the wrath of GamerGate down on Mr. Moosa?
...
Today, in the wake of Tauriq Moosa’s departure from Twitter, GamerGate has set out to poison the #IStandWithTauriq hashtag, filling it with hate, abuse and misinformation, and attacking anyone speaking up in support of Moosa. The tweets from GamerGate are sadly too inappropriate for publication anywhere, but here is a small sample of what his supporters have to say."

etc.

This is the standard sort of gg article.

Anyway w/e. I've noticed pushback too. Not enough yet though imo.
Favorable coverage by the main stream media was never on the table. Seriously, corrupt media is going to report that they are corrupt? What are you smoking?

#GamerGate Wins include conflict of interest statements now appearing in articles that were never seen before. FTC scrutiny concerning affiliate disclosures have resulted in more disclosures on offending sites.

Gawker by their own admission have lost seven figures (their words) in advertising revenue due to the email campaign to advertisers.

Dunno what you mean by pushback, I am assuming you mean in the MS? I am not holding my breath.

BTW, trot over to DeepFreeze if you want more specifics on what exactly #GamerGate has issues with.

ThreeFlangedJavis
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47314

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis »

AndrewV69 wrote:...
Piss Christ is a no. Burning the Bible/Koran/whatever is also a no. Cartoons? I dinna care. Make fun all you want. Knock yourself out.
Nothing wrong with Piss Christs or book burning. These are very different things from asking the religious to denounce their faiths. The point I would be making if I were given to desecrating religious artifacts is that these things mean nothing to me and that It is nobody's business how I choose to treat them. If it offends people then they should perhaps be asked what makes them think that others must be expected to respect their religous symbols. My disrespect should have no bearing on their own religious practice. It's that forced deference which buttresses the persistence of religion where it may otherwise be seen on it's merits, or lack thereof. It is the notion of the sacredness of artifacts and historical figures that is being attacked, not people.

Parody Accountant
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47315

Post by Parody Accountant »

x_?_x wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:http://imgur.com/qZfmMtF.jpg

That is so Peez' actual fantasy, it's creepy.
Am I the only one fascinated by Watson's belly in that picture?
I'm just wondering how I missed this. When did she cosplay as a surgeon general's warning?

Parody Accountant
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47316

Post by Parody Accountant »

Tony Parsehole wrote:HAHAHAHAHA
My sources indicate that Ophelia Benson banned Oolon after this exchange in the comments 20, 34, 43, 44:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/20505/
She doesn't mention the ban in the comments but replies to Oolon's private Tweets show she banned him for it.

HT- LazyRedux AKA Percy Trumpton AKA Lazy Savant
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Fuck your stupid bot, and your BBC story. You're old news to her, oolon. BAWAWWAWWWHAHAHAHAHAAH

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47317

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Tauriq Moose Chip wrote:You see the problem. When white gamers are forced to play people not of their race, it’s "forced politics;" when I’m forced into the same scenario, it’s business as usual. When you complain, you’re making a fuss and being political
I'd make a fuss about being forced to play as Donald Sutherland:
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Sunder
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47318

Post by Sunder »

No one's forced to do anything because games are a luxury item that you choose to buy or not. Moosa is intentionally mischaracterizing an argument about not strong-arming developers and artists into catering to political whims over their own vision or the internal consistency of their worlds as "white people don't want to play as non-white characters," which is dumb as fuck.

Steersman
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47319

Post by Steersman »

Scented Nectar wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
I think that is a well thought out and easy to understand point. It is also completely different from what Steersman was talking about.
I have to admit though, that I haven't fully read all of Steers arguments, or all of the countering arguments. I skimmed and skipped a lot. I also haven't read that novel called Oregano.
Amen to that; know if any particular party is promoting that idea? Upcoming election and all that. ;-)

But highly recommend the novel - quite spicy with lots of protein and nutrients, at least from the little I've read of it. ;-)

Parody Accountant
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47320

Post by Parody Accountant »


Billie from Ockham
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47321

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Shatterface as Guest wrote:Steersman has supplied the evidence himself. He's spent three years arguing for his God given right to call black people niggers, he defends each and every case of police killing black people and he wants Muslims forcefully expelled from his country.
On the second of the three, there's at least one other person here (who I don't have on ignore) who also seemed to argue that all police killings of blacks were justified. I was so shocked by it (as I find this person to be otherwise rational), that I've repressed who it was.

feathers
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47322

Post by feathers »

Sunder wrote:Oh hey, I actually know the place where that impact occurred.

Small world.
Which SUV where you driving?

kiddin'

Steersman
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47323

Post by Steersman »

Kirbmarc wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:Your argument against Muslims is quite literally a white supremacist argument against black people.
I'm staying out of this mostly, but religion is not the same thing as race.

Being against detrimental cultural practices, such as religion-ordered violence, has nothing to do with physical features and is not racism.

Being against certain physical features (no matter what the culture or behaviours) IS racism.

I'm seeing the two things conflated a lot. I don't think there is anything wrong with having strong opinions against harmful cultural practices. I even think it's essential in order to improve the quality of life for everyone.

There is something wrong with being against certain physical attributes though. It's a very different thing.
You are right in that religion isn't a race, and mocking Islam, for example, or criticizing it, can never be argued to be "racist" even if the mockery is crude (like a crudely drawn cow-pig who represents Mohammed as a pedophile, for example).

But James' argument isn't that hatred of Islam is equivalent to hatred of black people. James (and I, incidentally) are arguing not against criticism and mockery of Islam, but against the illiberal principle of "collective guilt".
Apart from suggesting that the idea of collective guilt has some merit, I don't think that it is the basis for my argument - nor for Scented's support of it. It is, I think, quite reasonably predicated on the rather brute fact that large portions of the Quran can reasonably be characterized as hate speech - which is actually a crime in many countries including Canada, Germany, and the UK. Consider:
In the United Kingdom, several statutes criminalize hate speech against several categories of persons. The statutes forbid communication which is hateful, threatening, abusive, or insulting and which targets a person on account of skin colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.
And considering that some 50-75% of American Muslims - a number unlikely to be different in most Western countries - think that the Quran is the "Word of God, taken literally word for word", and are therefore likely to support, endorse and be guilty of that hate speech crime, one might reasonably ask whether we should be allowing them to immigrate. The issue isn't some hypothetical, potential, nebulous, in-the-future crime; it's one "they" (most of them), by subscribing to the religion and its precepts, are already actively guilty of - and on prima facie evidence. Fuck 'em; fuck 'em all - at least 50-75% of them.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47324

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Parody Accountant wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:HAHAHAHAHA
My sources indicate that Ophelia Benson banned Oolon after this exchange in the comments 20, 34, 43, 44:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/20505/
She doesn't mention the ban in the comments but replies to Oolon's private Tweets show she banned him for it.

HT- LazyRedux AKA Percy Trumpton AKA Lazy Savant
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Fuck your stupid bot, and your BBC story. You're old news to her, oolon. BAWAWWAWWWHAHAHAHAHAAH
Yeah, until he's banned at the rest of FtB and brings his turdy self back here. I'd rather have Nec and Wonderist arguing with Steersman, with Jesper having a breakdown in the background.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47325

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Scented Nectar wrote:I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion.
Deportation for failure to repudiate an ideology - no matter how horrible - is, to me, prosecution for thought-crime.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47326

Post by Billie from Ockham »

John D wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
Thought crimes...hmmmmm.... I am against it. Forcing people to have certain religious beliefs.... I am against this too. Many of us have gone through periods in our life where we harbored vile and stupid thoughts.

and of course.... the best way to make someone a martyr and potential terrorist is to force them to lie about their religious beliefs.
I really hate ninjas. If this were the 1940s, I have them all in tents in the fucking desert.

Shatterface as Guest

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47327

Post by Shatterface as Guest »

What's the chances of Droolon blockbotting Benson in response?

As a transphobic white supremacist (according to Thunderdome) I'm surprised she's lasted this long.

Shatterface

AndrewV69
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47328

Post by AndrewV69 »

ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:...
Piss Christ is a no. Burning the Bible/Koran/whatever is also a no. Cartoons? I dinna care. Make fun all you want. Knock yourself out.
Nothing wrong with Piss Christs or book burning. These are very different things from asking the religious to denounce their faiths. The point I would be making if I were given to desecrating religious artifacts is that these things mean nothing to me and that It is nobody's business how I choose to treat them. If it offends people then they should perhaps be asked what makes them think that others must be expected to respect their religous symbols. My disrespect should have no bearing on their own religious practice. It's that forced deference which buttresses the persistence of religion where it may otherwise be seen on it's merits, or lack thereof. It is the notion of the sacredness of artifacts and historical figures that is being attacked, not people.
*shrug*

Welp, the Christians will mutter & mumble and the Muslims will cut off your head. Different strokes and all that eh?

Personally, once you demonstrate your profound disrespect to people, it is willfully stupid to expect none yourself. Or is this what you are trying to demonstrate yourself to the God stricken? Your profound and complete disrespect?

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47329

Post by Badger3k »

debaser71 wrote:Some people keep mentioning how gamergate is winning or that how gamergate handles SJW is how others should as well. Pish posh! (is t hat even a phrase?) Anytime I see gg in the news it's always negative. Here's an example of the first hit I get whwn I search for gamergate in goolge then click on news.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2207377/gamerg ... f-twitter/

Earlier today, constant harassment by supporters of the #GamerGate movement drove prominent game critic and outspoken person-of-color Tauriq Moosa to delete his Twitter account, according to a report from The Mary Sue. GamerGate’s attack and the fallout therof has since spawned a hashtag campaign, dubbed #IStandWithTauriq in support of Moosa, who also writes for publications including Polygon and The Guardian.

So what brought the wrath of GamerGate down on Mr. Moosa?
...
Today, in the wake of Tauriq Moosa’s departure from Twitter, GamerGate has set out to poison the #IStandWithTauriq hashtag, filling it with hate, abuse and misinformation, and attacking anyone speaking up in support of Moosa. The tweets from GamerGate are sadly too inappropriate for publication anywhere, but here is a small sample of what his supporters have to say."

etc.

This is the standard sort of gg article.

Anyway w/e. I've noticed pushback too. Not enough yet though imo.
#Gamergate is winning in the development of ethics policies in numerous game journal outlets. It is winning in the way more developers are speaking out and producing games counter to the SJW views. It is winning in that E3 wasn't focused on BS SJW topics like certain atheist and skeptic cons. The media is biased against #gamergate because they are the ones being attacked for their practices. In the end, mainstream media has always had a shit view of games and gamers, from tabletop onward. What they say is irrelevant - it's what the game companies and developers do (and specifically game media, not general mainstream or SJW rags) that is important. While it would be nice for the mainstream media to stand with consumers rather than the biased outfits, that rarely happens with anything. Just my views, but I think a lot of gamers view it similaraly

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47330

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Shatterface as Guest wrote:What's the chances of Droolon blockbotting Benson in response?

As a transphobic white supremacist (according to Thunderdome) I'm surprised she's lasted this long.

Shatterface
That is a horribly wonderful idea. I only hope somebody that isn't blocked by Oolie gets the twatter word through.

Steersman
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47331

Post by Steersman »

AndrewV69 wrote:
ThreeFlangedJavis wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:...
Piss Christ is a no. Burning the Bible/Koran/whatever is also a no. Cartoons? I dinna care. Make fun all you want. Knock yourself out.
Nothing wrong with Piss Christs or book burning. These are very different things from asking the religious to denounce their faiths. The point I would be making if I were given to desecrating religious artifacts is that these things mean nothing to me and that It is nobody's business how I choose to treat them. If it offends people then they should perhaps be asked what makes them think that others must be expected to respect their religous symbols. My disrespect should have no bearing on their own religious practice. It's that forced deference which buttresses the persistence of religion where it may otherwise be seen on it's merits, or lack thereof. It is the notion of the sacredness of artifacts and historical figures that is being attacked, not people.
*shrug*

Welp, the Christians will mutter & mumble and the Muslims will cut off your head. Different strokes and all that eh?

Personally, once you demonstrate your profound disrespect to people, it is willfully stupid to expect none yourself.
Methinks you're kind of conflating disrespect and murder - rather different kettles of fish methinks.
AndrewV69 wrote:Or is this what you are trying to demonstrate yourself to the God stricken? Your profound and complete disrespect?
Or maybe just trying to get their attention? And one might suggest that you're conflating disrespect for ideas with disrespect for people.

Whole lotta conflation goin' on ....

Billie from Ockham
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47332

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Someone with spoons should put a copy of Oolon's Comment #30 in this thread. It's a great read.

AndrewV69
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47333

Post by AndrewV69 »

BTW, I can not recall if I mentioned this before but there is an Open Letter to Al-Baghdadi created by Muslims taking him to task about his version of Islam.

I suggest that anyone interested read it. It is a conversation between Muslims and the Islamic State. BTW, Westerners are not encouraged to participate in this conversation so do not be surprised if Muslims as a whole do not contact the MSM about it.

Scented Nectar
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47334

Post by Scented Nectar »

screwtape wrote:
comhcinc wrote: Hey now I am just telling you how it's done in these neck of the woods.
Last I heard, you were planning to do it in the neck of SN's wooded areas. How'd that go?
My wooded areas are on (meno-)pause. No one's doing it in the neck or anywhere else of my wooded areas these days. The land's lying fallow until further notice. :P

AndrewV69
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47335

Post by AndrewV69 »

Steersman wrote: Or maybe just trying to get their attention? And one might suggest that you're conflating disrespect for ideas with disrespect for people.

Whole lotta conflation goin' on ....
Sorry Steers but in this you are the one confused. It might seem crystal clear to you that the two are separate but it has escaped your notice that:

The God stricken (and we see this even with the allegedly Godless SJWarrios) view disrespect for their religion and their ideas as disrespect for themselves.

*shrug*

You have now been told. Do not expect me to say this again.

Steersman
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47336

Post by Steersman »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Steersman wrote: Or maybe just trying to get their attention? And one might suggest that you're conflating disrespect for ideas with disrespect for people.

Whole lotta conflation goin' on ....
Sorry Steers but in this you are the one confused. It might seem crystal clear to you that the two are separate but it has escaped your notice that:

The God stricken (and we see this even with the allegedly Godless SJWarrios) view disrespect for their religion and their ideas as disrespect for themselves.

*shrug*

You have now been told. Do not expect me to say this again.
Well then that kind of makes "them" intrinsically unsuited for citizenship in Western countries, doesn't it?

free thoughtpolice
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47337

Post by free thoughtpolice »

AndrewV69 wrote:BTW, I can not recall if I mentioned this before but there is an Open Letter to Al-Baghdadi created by Muslims taking him to task about his version of Islam.

I suggest that anyone interested read it. It is a conversation between Muslims and the Islamic State. BTW, Westerners are not encouraged to participate in this conversation so do not be surprised if Muslims as a whole do not contact the MSM about it.
They really appeal to a small percentage of muslims. Even the salafist-jihadi twits at Islamic Awakening (back online btw) don't like them.
Mind you, that's likely largely to do with IS being at war with the taliban and al-Qaeda, the movements that IA members seem mainly attracted to.

Scented Nectar
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47338

Post by Scented Nectar »

Steersman wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote: I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion. There is no good way though to figure out who would be sincere or not, short of reading minds. However, without deporting anyone, there should in times of war (and I do believe that islamicists are at war with the rest of the world), be severe restrictions on new immigrants. Islamicists are quite open about wanting to force sharia and islam on other countries. And they are currently killing many in the name of their religion. The doors should be closed right now to further muslim immigration.

And before anyone thinks that's mean or cruel, ask yourself how many islamic theocracies are open to non-muslims immigrating to their countries and freely practising their non-muslim religions. It's not we are closing our doors to people who would open their doors to us.
Amen to that; know if any particular party is promoting that idea? Upcoming election and all that. ;-)

But highly recommend the novel - quite spicy with lots of protein and nutrients, at least from the little I've read of it. ;-)
I've not kept up at all on what the parties are siding with or against these days, but I would prioritize anyone defending secularism against islamicism over the legalization of pot at the moment. Both issues are important to me, but the former one more so.

I put some crushed dried oregano and basil in these eggs for lunch today. Yummy! Yeah, yeah, I know, sax and violins on tv. :)

Scented Nectar
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47339

Post by Scented Nectar »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion.
Deportation for failure to repudiate an ideology - no matter how horrible - is, to me, prosecution for thought-crime.
I meant something more like promising not to do any of the bad things, eg, forced marriage, killing gays and people who have unmarried sex, killing apostates and other nonbelievers who refuse to convert, and all that other nasty stuff. If they truly believe that the atrocities ordered in the koran should supercede our laws, then they can't be trusted to get along well with others in our society. They don't feel they have to follow the laws.

It's all moot anyways, since there is no way to read minds.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#47340

Post by Steersman »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:I see a difference between the deportation of an entire group and the deportation of just those who refuse to repudiate the horrible parts of their religion.
Deportation for failure to repudiate an ideology - no matter how horrible - is, to me, prosecution for thought-crime.
I meant something more like promising not to do any of the bad things, eg, forced marriage, killing gays and people who have unmarried sex, killing apostates and other nonbelievers who refuse to convert, and all that other nasty stuff. If they truly believe that the atrocities ordered in the koran should supercede our laws, then they can't be trusted to get along well with others in our society. They don't feel they have to follow the laws.

It's all moot anyways, since there is no way to read minds.
True. Although maybe once we've developed fMRI to a greater extent?

However, maybe in the interim, we could show prospective immigrants some of the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons or those from Charlie Hebdo and see how they react? ;-)

Locked