Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

[Cunning Punt]

The relish with which Peez has been honking "Tim Hunt got what he deserved!" on Twitter has been a sorry spectacle. It did cause him to inadvertently blurt the truth, though:

http://imgur.com/yPrXI8j.png

Yeah, he can only dream of being a "ruined" Tim Hunt. Peez at his glorious best is a nightmare of failure in comparison.

First of all you'd need to earn a Nobel Fucking Prize, Meyers. :moon:

[comhcinc]

Well this just happened.........

Ellen Pao resigned from reddit today by mutual agreement. I'm delighted to announce that Steve Huffman, founder and the original reddit CEO, is returning as CEO.

Don't know what happen. Let's try that again.

We are thankful for Ellen’s many contributions to reddit and the technology industry generally. She brought focus to chaos, recruited a world-class team of executives, and drove growth. She brought a face to reddit that changed perceptions, and is a pioneer for women in the tech industry. She will remain as an advisor to the board through the end of 2015. I look forward to seeing the great things she does beyond that.
We’re very happy to have Steve back. Product and community are the two legs of reddit, and the board was very focused on finding a candidate who excels at both (truthfully, community is harder), which Steve does. He has the added bonus of being a founder with ten years of reddit history in his head. Steve is rejoining Alexis, who will work alongside Steve with the new title of “cofounder”.
A few other points. Mods, you are what makes reddit great. The reddit team, now with Steve, wants to do more for you. You deserve better moderation tools and better communication from the admins.
Second, redditors, you deserve clarity about what the content policy of reddit is going to be. The team will create guidelines to both preserve the integrity of reddit and to maintain reddit as the place where the most open and honest conversations with the entire world can happen.
Third, as a redditor, I’m particularly happy that Steve is so passionate about mobile. I’m very excited to use reddit more on my phone.
As a closing note, it was sickening to see some of the things redditors wrote about Ellen. [1] The reduction in compassion that happens when we’re all behind computer screens is not good for the world. People are still people even if there is Internet between you.
If the reddit community cannot learn to balance authenticity and compassion, it may be a great website but it will never be a truly great community. Steve’s great challenge as CEO [2] will be continuing the work Ellen started to drive this forward.
[1] Disagreements are fine. Death threats are not, are not covered under free speech, and will continue to get offending users banned.
Ellen asked me to point out that the sweeping majority of redditors didn’t do this, and many were incredibly supportive. Although the incredible power of the Internet is the amplification of voices, unfortunately sometimes those voices are hateful.
[2] We were planning to run a CEO search here and talked about how Steve (who we assumed was unavailable) was the benchmark candidate—he has exactly the combination of talent and vision we were looking for. To our delight, it turned out our hypothetical benchmark candidate is the one actually taking the job.
NOTE: I am going to let the reddit team answer questions here, and go do an AMA myself now.

[Cunning Punt]

You'd think if the algorithm drew on Google images it would be full of kittens and tits.

Shatterface

Do you think there are that many people looking at birds?
http://i.imgur.com/3XQBZ.jpg

Haha, I was looking for a pic to use with the caption "fascist tit" and the first page to come back from google images was almost all slymepit.

[Oglebart]

The relish with which Peez has been honking "Tim Hunt got what he deserved!" on Twitter has been a sorry spectacle. It did cause him to inadvertently blurt the truth, though:

http://imgur.com/yPrXI8j.png

Yeah, he can only dream of being a "ruined" Tim Hunt. Peez at his glorious best is a nightmare of failure in comparison.

First of all you'd need to earn a Nobel Fucking Prize, Meyers. :moon:

Well, if Pets at Home and Roundup start sponsoring the prize, maybe he'll be able to swing a nomination :lol:

[comhcinc]

The relish with which Peez has been honking "Tim Hunt got what he deserved!" on Twitter has been a sorry spectacle. It did cause him to inadvertently blurt the truth, though:

http://imgur.com/yPrXI8j.png

Yeah, he can only dream of being a "ruined" Tim Hunt. Peez at his glorious best is a nightmare of failure in comparison.

First of all you'd need to earn a Nobel Fucking Prize, Meyers. :moon:

In the Voice of a Horse: IF OBama can...... :roll:

[dog puke]

Why you guys always hating on Hornblower's prowess with statistics and diagrams?

This diagram of his seems to be beyond refutation.

http://i.imgur.com/enFIBpy.jpg

[Kirbmarc]

See, there are two main hypothesis of the SlymePit: either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice, or they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion.

I'm glad to see that Hornbeck has some measure of self-awareness here. Pity that he seems to stop at the "hate group" hypothesis instead of providing evidence for it.

We don't "hate" anyone, and we certainly don't hate "feminists and those interested in social justice". Most people here are praising real world, effective activism (like what Michael Nugent did at the UN). What we dislike, HJ, is the tactics that too many people who claim to only be "interested in social justice" use.

We dislike call-out culture. We dislike the act of comparing criticism and mockery/satire to violence. We dislike accusations of serious crimes against name people published freely on the Internet and promoted as if they were "the truth". We dislike doxxing. We dislike post-modern philosophy which justifies elevating personal feelings to truth. We dislike your very inaccurate use of statistics. We dislike the hypocrisy of "fighting rape culture" while defending and cuddling a confessed child rapist in your midst.

We dislike the double standards which allow you to judge people you dislike as "harassers" "misogynists" "rape apologists" or "racists" while people you like are allowed to do similar things with no nasty comment from you. We dislike your self-serving moral arguments, and your self-righteous outrage. We dislike the fact that just like in a cult when we remind you that your leaders changed their minds and used to believe things they now call out in others you simply shrug and say "they've been saved now, their past doesn't really matter" while others aren't allowed the same charity. We dislike clickbait. We dislike the idea of firing someone for saying something, or telling a joke which others doesn't like. We dislike your ideas about justice, law enforcement, the Internet, the nature of human relationships, free speech, humor, and yourselves.

We dislike PZ' hypocrisy about his own rape accusation. We dislike Stephanie Zvan when she puts her words into Hemant Mehta's mouth (guess what? mehta wasn't fond of it, too). We dislike you when you publish a lot of blog article of Jaclyn Glenn and then call Michael Nugent "obsessed" for publishing a lot of posts on PZ Myers. We dislike Ophelia Benson's self-righteous moral standards, but we also dislike it when you dogpile on her for daring to defend Charlie Hebdo. We dislike Dick Carrier's double standards about his spunky poly adventures and Shermer's "skirt-chasing". We dislike Jason Thibeault's toady nature and his comparison between commenting on public posts and comment and "going through someone's garbage" when it's done to the serial plagiarist Avicenna, but not when it's done by Jadehawk or David Futrelle (or pretty much each and everyone of you).

And most of all we dislike the idea that "everything is problematic" and every brain fart you have about anything by labeling it "problematic" is an important achievement of social justice. Sometimes some ideas are outrage for the sake of being outraged.

I don’t think I need to tell you which one SlymePit members believe is true, which leads to an angle of attack: if their self-perception is true, then their ideas should be unassailable even if you temporarily adopt their core premises as your own. If their self-perception is false, then pointing [out] contradictions between their beliefs and reality ratchets up their level of cognitive dissonance, leading them to either turn into self-refuting conspiracy nuts … or drop out and go silent. Throw enough grit in their wheels, and they’ll grind themselves into extinction.

Feel free to point out any contradictions you may think you've noticed. Document them, reference them, but bear in mind that the Slymepit is no hive mind (shocking, isn't it?) and that people here have some different ideas about different things.

I think you're an expert on cognitive dissonance, given that even you should notice how bad your command of statistics is, but probably lie for the cause of Social Justice. Anyway, I'm waiting for your notes. Do your best. Let's see what you come up with.

[deLurch]

Well this just happened.........

Ellen Pao resigned from reddit today by mutual agreement. I'm delighted to announce that Steve Huffman, founder and the original reddit CEO, is returning as CEO.

Here is Pao's own statement on reddit about it.
https://archive.is/4uR74

[Tribble]

Behold HJ Hornbeck's brilliant and terrifying plan. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'm seriosuly considering just closing my account here and sending back my MRA card, because I'm not sure I will be able to withstand Hornbeck's devistating rhetorical tactics.

Face it, it's either cut our losses and quit now or we'll all end up "dropping out and going silent" when he's done with us.

See, there are two main hypothesis of the SlymePit: either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice, or they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion. I don’t think I need to tell you which one SlymePit members believe is true, which

leads to an angle of attack: if their self-perception is true, then their ideas should be unassailable even if you temporarily adopt their core premises as your own. If their self-perception is false, then pointing [out] contradictions between their beliefs and reality ratchets up their level of cognitive dissonance, leading them to either turn into self-refuting conspiracy nuts … or drop out and go silent. Throw enough grit in their wheels, and they’ll grind themselves into extinction.

Each hypothesis makes slightly different predictions. If they’re a hate group, then they’ll dig hard to find some “dirt” they can fling back at you, no matter how off-topic; if they’re a bunch of skeptics, they’ll stick to the argument. If a hate group, they’ll go for quantity over quality, firing off long rambling posts with little care for the quality of their citations (if they cite at all); if a skeptic group, they’ll go for quality over quantity, writing only as long as needed to set up their argument and being careful to track down reasonably-strong citations. Hate group? They’ll camp on a thread, preferably in groups, and try goading people into replying to them. Skeptic group? They might toss out a bit of snark, but they’ll leave when the argument is done.

The strategy I previously outlined will never work against a skeptic group. They’ll either fail to generate contradictions, or give up when they realize you’re goading them into continuing, or your index post will be laughable to the average person.

But it works like a charm against a hate group. Oh my goodness, does it work! I can tell them exactly what I’m going to do, I can openly beg them to do exactly what I want, and they’ll blindly follow. Because that’s how a hate group must behave; they must keep talking to silence their targets, they must dig for every edge they can, no matter how lousy their arguments, otherwise they’ll wither away.

So let me make my warning to the SlymePit more explicit: I’m going to keep you talking. I’m going to let the contradictions wrack up. And I’m going to punt out an index post. Again. And again. And again.

Jesus, what a clown. He's so blind to his own irrationality he starts it off with a logical fallacy (a false dilemma) and immediately chooses the one that makes him look good and us look bad. It's like they have their own Steersman...

[Kirbmarc]

Behold HJ Hornbeck's brilliant and terrifying plan. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'm seriosuly considering just closing my account here and sending back my MRA card, because I'm not sure I will be able to withstand Hornbeck's devistating rhetorical tactics.

Face it, it's either cut our losses and quit now or we'll all end up "dropping out and going silent" when he's done with us.

See, there are two main hypothesis of the SlymePit: either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice, or they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion. I don’t think I need to tell you which one SlymePit members believe is true, which

leads to an angle of attack: if their self-perception is true, then their ideas should be unassailable even if you temporarily adopt their core premises as your own. If their self-perception is false, then pointing [out] contradictions between their beliefs and reality ratchets up their level of cognitive dissonance, leading them to either turn into self-refuting conspiracy nuts … or drop out and go silent. Throw enough grit in their wheels, and they’ll grind themselves into extinction.

Each hypothesis makes slightly different predictions. If they’re a hate group, then they’ll dig hard to find some “dirt” they can fling back at you, no matter how off-topic; if they’re a bunch of skeptics, they’ll stick to the argument. If a hate group, they’ll go for quantity over quality, firing off long rambling posts with little care for the quality of their citations (if they cite at all); if a skeptic group, they’ll go for quality over quantity, writing only as long as needed to set up their argument and being careful to track down reasonably-strong citations. Hate group? They’ll camp on a thread, preferably in groups, and try goading people into replying to them. Skeptic group? They might toss out a bit of snark, but they’ll leave when the argument is done.

The strategy I previously outlined will never work against a skeptic group. They’ll either fail to generate contradictions, or give up when they realize you’re goading them into continuing, or your index post will be laughable to the average person.

But it works like a charm against a hate group. Oh my goodness, does it work! I can tell them exactly what I’m going to do, I can openly beg them to do exactly what I want, and they’ll blindly follow. Because that’s how a hate group must behave; they must keep talking to silence their targets, they must dig for every edge they can, no matter how lousy their arguments, otherwise they’ll wither away.

So let me make my warning to the SlymePit more explicit: I’m going to keep you talking. I’m going to let the contradictions wrack up. And I’m going to punt out an index post. Again. And again. And again.

Jesus, what a clown. He's so blind to his own irrationality he starts it off with a logical fallacy (a false dilemma) and immediately chooses the one that makes him look good and us look bad. It's like they have their own Steersman...

Say, has anyone seen them together? :think:

[Tribble]

The relish with which Peez has been honking "Tim Hunt got what he deserved!" on Twitter has been a sorry spectacle. It did cause him to inadvertently blurt the truth, though:

http://imgur.com/yPrXI8j.png

Yeah, he can only dream of being a "ruined" Tim Hunt. Peez at his glorious best is a nightmare of failure in comparison.

lol. He's certainly not going to win a Nobel Prize by doing Science Fair* experiments and pretending to be a real scientist. So having that 'feeling' of 'being ruined' isn't likely to ever come his way.


* I told my wife about his stupid Round Up experiment and how it was pointless since all that work has been done. She laughed and called it a Science Fair Experiment. And, you know what, it WAS. In fact, I've seen kids with better science fair experiments.

[Steersman]

Behold HJ Hornbeck's brilliant and terrifying plan. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'm seriosuly considering just closing my account here and sending back my MRA card, because I'm not sure I will be able to withstand Hornbeck's devistating rhetorical tactics.
.....

Jesus, what a clown. He's so blind to his own irrationality he starts it off with a logical fallacy (a false dilemma) and immediately chooses the one that makes him look good and us look bad. It's like they have their own Steersman...

Say, has anyone seen them together? :think:

:lol: No pics, but you might take a look at our exchanges on Sinmantyx, and on a few of Ashley Miller's posts. I think it should be clear that there are very different styles there that would be difficult to maintain if we were only one person.

[rayshul]

Oh noes we're a hate group.



Or we're the moral minority. :) And growing. :)

[comhcinc]

We don't "hate" anyone,

Careful there. You know that there are people here that hates other people.

[Kirbmarc]

Say, has anyone seen them together? :think:

:lol: No pics, but you might take a look at our exchanges on Sinmantyx, and on a few of Ashley Miller's posts. I think it should be clear that there are very different styles there that would be difficult to maintain if we were only one person.

Don't worry Steers, I never seriously thought you were one and the same.Hornbeck has never referenced geese, kettles of fish, or spinning dancers.

[comhcinc]

.

http://i.imgur.com/lF67Qfh.jpg

[Kirbmarc]

We don't "hate" anyone,

Careful there. You know that there are people here that hates other people.

I was willing to be charitable to Hornbeck and assume he doesn't think that Steersman is the prototypical Pitter.

[John Greg]

Oolon and Hornbeck are continuing their analysis of the Pit, and what-oh-what can be done about it :violin: (http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... nt-3565474).

Amongst other things, Oolon says:

Seriously HJ I don’t think they are going to wither away or that there is a “right” way to deal with them. Especially for you and I to determine, we are not targeted by them for constant harassment like the bloggers here are....

Bloggers here constantly have these people infecting their careers with a tiring Gish gallop of grievances, lies and half truths. The pitters just making up photoshops and stories about me doesn’t harm me because it doesn’t affect my day to day life, I can laugh at it, walk away whenever I want....

To which Dr. Honrbeck replies (in part):

The stats I’m looking at show a gradual decline. But I’m not about to break out my party hat, at minimum because those stats are incomplete.

As for the rest, I’m in complete agreement. There is no right way to deal with the ‘Pit, not many people can deal with them, let alone would, and I’m not about to challenge any of that. What I am offering is something that might work, to the people who are willing to deal with them. I’m providing hope, with a plan that everyone can peer review and verify for themselves. Even the ‘Pit can help out; hell, you could argue it’s in the ‘Pit’s best interest to help.

[fuzzy]

1. Keep Slymepit talking and let contradictions rack up
2. Punt out index posts
3. ???
4. Profit

[John Greg]

Also, it never ceases to amaze that PZ, an adult professional educator so deeply fails to notice how incredibley idiotic and childish comments like this make him look (http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... nt-3565379):

Interesting. They [Pit folk] must have thought we’d be so distracted by our long weekend at Convergence that they could slither in and try to sow discord without our noticing.

My slymer [his slymer?!?! :lol: ] got himself banned and his comments erased after a bit more than a day, but I was getting alerts from lots of readers — they’re trivially easy to detect when they try to pretend to be a Social Justice Warrior, but get all the ideas wrong.

I’ve put his email and IP addresses on the back channel, you should see if it’s the same guy.

:whistle:

[Gefan]

http://i.imgur.com/rkrcsSN.jpg

Behold, Wolverdouche.

[Lsuoma]

I'm trembling in fear at Captain HJ Hjornblower's genius plot.

Can someone tell s/h/it that the phrase "wrack up" is rong? I think he meant "rack up", which is wright.

[Sulman]

HJ Hornbeck might have a really good plan. Maybe we should hear him out.

HJ, come on over and talk to us, buddy. Say stuff

Between him and SteersnecV20 I'm not sure the database will take the load.

[Steersman]

.

[.img]http://i.imgur.com/lF67Qfh.jpg[/img]

And no one asked for yours either. And since you seem to think that posting a gif - or a jpg as the case maybe - qualifies as "comhcinc ... just kicked you ass", one might suggest, again, you're rather unclear on the difference between fantasies and reality. And that your opinions are likely thereby to be far more irrelevant than mine. All of which suggests some possible reasons why your wife is apparently so keen to put you and your marriage behind her.

[Kirbmarc]

PZ is an authoritarian cunt to his allies, too:

Keep in mind that this guy was arguing for PZ, not against him. And after a mere mention, PZ goes faux-Neeson Internet Tough Guy on the poor sap (complete with the ALL CAPS warning). How can anyone put up with this kind of behavior?

PZ is supposed to be a 50-something academic, but he behaves like a teenage emo. It's pretty pathetic.

[Steersman]

[.img]http://i.imgur.com/rkrcsSN.jpg[/img]

Behold, Wolverdouche.

:lol:

[Lsuoma]

I'm trembling in fear at Captain HJ Hjornblower's genius plot.

Can someone tell s/h/it that the phrase "wrack up" is rong? I think he meant "rack up", which is wright.

Oh, and it's probably a cunning plan rather than a genius plot.

[Lsuoma]

BTW, I hope everyone has noticed that Steerzo is now the Official Slyme Pit Cunt.

[free thoughtpolice]

Behold, Wolverdouche.

:lol: :lol:

[rayshul]

Can you all just stop fighting.

[Gefan]

http://i.imgur.com/B71Lz94.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/q2UweBD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UnCoY8Y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IwfMoX8.jpg

And now we have an idea of what the world looks like to Keith Richards.

[free thoughtpolice]

What is an index post and why should we fear it/them?

[Sulman]

Can you all just stop fighting.

I still maintain we should plug the guitars in

http://i.imgur.com/rkrcsSN.jpg

He's one of those guys that just looks like a douche. Without reading a sentence of his nonsense you could look at his picture and tell he's a cunt.

This made me snort.

[Steersman]

See, there are two main hypothesis of the SlymePit: either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice, or they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion.

I'm glad to see that Hornbeck has some measure of self-awareness here. Pity that he seems to stop at the "hate group" hypothesis instead of providing evidence for it.

<snip>

I think you're an expert on cognitive dissonance, given that even you should notice how bad your command of statistics is, but probably lie for the cause of Social Justice. Anyway, I'm waiting for your notes. Do your best. Let's see what you come up with.

Maybe you could post that to one of his guest-blogger articles on Sinmantyx? You know, fire a shot across his bow, or throw down the gauntlet.

However, while I'll certainly agree that many of your objections probably hold some water, I think a few others are rather questionable and that suggest some degree of bias - and which might produce some justifiable push-back from the inimitable HJ himself.

[comhcinc]

.

[.img]http://i.imgur.com/lF67Qfh.jpg[/img]

And no one asked for yours either. And since you seem to think that posting a gif - or a jpg as the case maybe - qualifies as "comhcinc ... just kicked you ass", one might suggest, again, you're rather unclear on the difference between fantasies and reality. And that your opinions are likely thereby to be far more irrel.......

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress. ... .gif?w=780

Now shut your mouth and know your role before the comhcinc has to lay the smack down on your ruby poo ass again like I did last night!

[dog puke]

I'm trembling in fear at Captain HJ Hjornblower's genius plot.

Can someone tell s/h/it that the phrase "wrack up" is rong? I think he meant "rack up", which is wright.

I like your avatar - nice wrack.

[Sulman]

What is an index post and why should we fear it/them?

Never heard of it.

HJH throws a lot of these dubious phrases around because he thinks they make him sound clever.

Perhaps they do, to his audience.

[Sulman]

.

[.img]http://i.imgur.com/lF67Qfh.jpg[/img]

And no one asked for yours either. And since you seem to think that posting a gif - or a jpg as the case maybe - qualifies as "comhcinc ... just kicked you ass", one might suggest, again, you're rather unclear on the difference between fantasies and reality. And that your opinions are likely thereby to be far more irrelevant than mine. All of which suggests some possible reasons why your wife is apparently so keen to put you and your marriage behind her.

Steers, take a holiday.

You've been a genuine bore the last few days.

[Steersman]

BTW, I hope everyone has noticed that Steerzo is now the Official Slyme Pit Cunt.

And my mother said I'd never amount to anything ....

[Gefan]

Can you all just stop fighting.

Sorry Mom :(

Steersman started it.

[Steersman]

Can you all just stop fighting.

Sorry Mom :(

Steersman started it.

Did not!!11!! ;-)

[comhcinc]

Sorry Rayshul, I can't drop kayfabe right now, even if I am sure pretty sure the mark wouldn't even realize it if I did.

[Kirbmarc]

BTW, I hope everyone has noticed that Steerzo is now the Official Slyme Pit Cunt.

And my mother said I'd never amount to anything ....

Years of spinning dancing practice have finally paid off! Congratulations!

[comhcinc]

1!

http://i.imgur.com/lF67Qfh.jpg

[AndrewV69]

Behold HJ Hornbeck's brilliant and terrifying plan. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I'm seriosuly considering just closing my account here and sending back my MRA card, because I'm not sure I will be able to withstand Hornbeck's devistating rhetorical tactics.

Face it, it's either cut our losses and quit now or we'll all end up "dropping out and going silent" when he's done with us.

See, there are two main hypothesis of the SlymePit: either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice, or they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion. I don’t think I need to tell you which one SlymePit members believe is true, which

<choppity chop>

So let me make my warning to the SlymePit more explicit: I’m going to keep you talking. I’m going to let the contradictions wrack up. And I’m going to punt out an index post. Again. And again. And again.

So has Horny registered here yet? I am looking forward to this. :popcorn:

[Brive1987]

What is an index post and why should we fear it/them?

Never heard of it.

HJH throws a lot of these dubious phrases around because he thinks they make him sound clever.

Perhaps they do, to his audience.

Im imagining a densely packed and editorialised pathfinder.

[free thoughtpolice]

Poor Steersman, even his mother had no respect for him. Of course you can hardly blame her, every time Steerzoid rattled off some disoriented data she could only think of how his father, a defective electronic typewriter, raped her and created the cliche crazed monster we have before us. :roll: :cry:

[Skep tickle]

What I am offering is something that might work, to the people who are willing to deal with them. I’m providing hope, with a plan that everyone can peer review and verify for themselves. Even the ‘Pit can help out; hell, you could argue it’s in the ‘Pit’s best interest to help.

Okay - here to help! HJ described performing a non-blinded, non-randomized trial to prove himself right test his hypothesis about the Slymepit.

Hypothesis:
“See, there are two main hypothesis [sic] of [sic] the SlymePit:”
1) “either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice" or
2) “they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion”

HJ doesn’t need to tell readers at FTB “which one SlymePit members believe is true”. We can take one of them, let's say (2), as the “working hypothesis”, which makes (1) then the “alternate hypothesis”.

Participants:
HJ Hornbeck and some subset of “SlymePit members”, with the mechanism of identification and enrollment of the SlymePit study population not yet described; see Methods below.

IRB approval: Not sought.

Consent: No process described.

Methods:
HJ asserts that the belief among SlymePit members in the working hypothesis “leads to an angle of attack” to test that hypothesis - to test whether “their self-perception” is true or false. That "angle of attack" is that HJ will “keep [them] talking [and] let the contradictions wrack up. And [HJ will] punt out an index post. Again. And again. And again.”

In "talking", HJ is apparently anticipating that the study population will reply or comment. The location and manner of this "talking" is not described in the study proposal but might be via comments at the blog he uses, either submitted or approved, or might be via his searching the SlymePit for responses to his repeated punting elsewhere. The most efficient approach would be for him to punt out his posts in the SlymePit, however there is no indication that he plans to use that approach.

Evaluation of "talking" by the research subjects will presumably be by HJ reading comments, or some subset of comments identified by an as-yet undescribed protocol, with HJ also making a determination as to which comments he includes and whether each supports neither, one, or both of his hypotheses.

HJ says that this strategy “works like a charm against a hate group. Oh my goodness, does it work” - but in contrast “the strategy…will never work against a skeptic group”. By “work[ing] like a charm” and “will never work”, he seems to mean that keeping them talking will or won’t lead to progressive wracking up of contradictions, plus the other predictions below, in order to support either the working hypothesis or the alternate hypothesis.

Reporting:
The study proposal does not currently identify how and where the findings will be reported, and whether raw data will be made available.

Appendix:
HJ’s “working hypothesis” (2) predicts:

• “their ideas should be unassailable even if you temporarily adopt their core premises as your own”
• “they’ll stick to the argument”
• “they’ll go for quality over quantity, writing only as long as needed to set up their argument and being careful to track down reasonably-strong citations”
• “They might toss out a bit of snark, but they’ll leave when the argument is done”
• “They’ll either fail to generate contradictions, or give up when they realize you’re goading them into continuing, or your index post will be laughable to the average person”

HJ’s alternate hypothesis (1) predicts:

• pointing [out] contradictions between their beliefs and reality ratchets up their level of cognitive dissonance, leading them to either turn into self-refuting conspiracy nuts … or drop out and go silent. Throw enough grit in their wheels, and they’ll grind themselves into extinction"
• “they’ll dig hard to find some “dirt” they can fling back at you, no matter how off-topic”
• “they’ll go for quantity over quality, firing off long rambling posts with little care for the quality of their citations (if they cite at all)”
• “They’ll camp on a thread, preferably in groups, and try goading people into replying to them"
• “they’ll blindly follow” after HJ “tell them exactly what [he’s] going to do, [he] can openly beg them to do exactly what [he] want, and they’ll blindly follow. Because that’s how a hate group must behave; they must keep talking to silence their targets, they must dig for every edge they can, no matter how lousy their arguments, otherwise they’ll wither away."

For bonus points, provide examples of behaviors among HJ's "allies" which might describe them either as a "hate group" or as "skeptics" based on HJ's own categorization above. (Note that "They might toss out a bit of snark, but they’ll leave when the argument is done" is not the same as they'll flee the thread when they realize they & their clueless peers are being ridiculed as people who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion, then they'll claim victory back in their safe space.)

Finally, perhaps someone like feathers could provide again some graph from somewhere of, to quote HJ again, "stats [you're] looking at [that] show a gradual decline" in popularity of some site HJ sometimes posts on. :)

[Steersman]

<snip>
And no one asked for yours either. And since you seem to think that posting a gif - or a jpg as the case maybe - qualifies as "comhcinc ... just kicked you ass", one might suggest, again, you're rather unclear on the difference between fantasies and reality. And that your opinions are likely thereby to be far more irrel.......

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.

[.img]https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress. ... .gif?w=780[/img]

Now shut your mouth and know your role before the comhcinc has to lay the smack down on your ruby poo ass again like I did last night!

Unbelievable - kiss my ass. But what a fucking deluded idiot, and, presumably, a dishonest one in deleting the portion of my comment as to why that is likely a contributing factor for the collapse of your marriage. What's the matter? Cutting a little too close to the bone? One would think that if your kids were really as important to you as you've suggested then you would be taking some steps to remove the causes for that collapse. Not expressing them at every opportunity you get.

[AndrewV69]

Becks and Oily are right about one thing, though, the slymepit is indeed doomed to die and the keys to its destruction are in the hands of it opponents.

The Peez and his gang are going the way of AtheismPlus, and soon they'll have dwindled to nothing and, while the 'pit might carry on for a while, the halcyon days where we stood shoulder to shoulder in the great battle will soon be a distant memory and the slymepit will become a shadow of what it once was.

The slymepit's cradle stands in FTB's digital grave.

I am going to be pretty sad when that happens.

Those lunatics have given me years now of free entertainment. I have literally laughed so hard and long, I even had a neighbor (retired nurse) out for a walk, come down my driveway because she though I was having a medical emergency.

What a wild ride it has been so far.

[Skep tickle]

What is an index post and why should we fear it/them?

Never heard of it.

HJH throws a lot of these dubious phrases around because he thinks they make him sound clever.

Perhaps they do, to his audience.

Im imagining a densely packed and editorialised pathfinder.

This use of "Index" sounds like it's supposed to mean the first one - the one that sets things in motion, like an index case.

But that can't be what he means, because then saying he would repeatedly put out index posts would sound pretentiously clueless, and surely that's not the case.

[Easy J]

What is an index post and why should we fear it/them?

I think he means to do what the Pit has been doing for years to induvidual FTB hypocrites: display two contradictory quotes size by side. Maybe it burned him enough seeing it done here to want to attempt it himself in a more muddled, less coherent manner elsewhere.

So...according to Hornbeck's mathematical formula, how certain is it that PZ raped or sexually assaulted one of his students? Can he put a reasonably firm number on it?

[Tribble]

Okay - here to help! HJ described performing a non-blinded, non-randomized trial to prove himself right test his hypothesis about the Slymepit.

Hypothesis:
“See, there are two main hypothesis [sic] of [sic] the SlymePit:”
1) “either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice" or
2) “they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion”

HJ doesn’t need to tell readers at FTB “which one SlymePit members believe is true”. We can take one of them, let's say (2), as the “working hypothesis”, which makes (1) then the “alternate hypothesis”.

...

Doesn't matter how much silk you buy, it's still going to be a pig in a dress. You can't start off with false dilemma as a hypothesis and apply it to a broadly diverse population that, frankly, can't even agree on many fundamental issues and expect any kind of valid results.

It really reminds me of the Christian apologetics by Lewis (Liar, Lord, Lunatic), but at least Lewis used a false trilemma instead of a false dilemma.

[Skep tickle]

Steers & comhcinc, how about putting each other on ignore - and then ignoring each other.

If anyone thinks there are posts in which someone here has purposefully misquoted you, go ahead & click the report button on the first instance of the misquote and describe the issue. (No guarantees as to action, but that way you can have Lsuoma & his plebes take a look.)

[Tribble]

Becks and Oily are right about one thing, though, the slymepit is indeed doomed to die and the keys to its destruction are in the hands of it opponents.

The Peez and his gang are going the way of AtheismPlus, and soon they'll have dwindled to nothing and, while the 'pit might carry on for a while, the halcyon days where we stood shoulder to shoulder in the great battle will soon be a distant memory and the slymepit will become a shadow of what it once was.

The slymepit's cradle stands in FTB's digital grave.

I am going to be pretty sad when that happens.

Those lunatics have given me years now of free entertainment. I have literally laughed so hard and long, I even had a neighbor (retired nurse) out for a walk, come down my driveway because she though I was having a medical emergency.

What a wild ride it has been so far.

I'm not. And if the tse-tse fly goes extinct, I won't cry over that either. Somethings are worth their existence and their passing should not be mourned.

[comhcinc]

Unbelievable -

WHAT?

kiss my ass.

WHAT?

But what a fucking deluded idiot, and, presumably, a dishonest one in deleting the portion of my comment as to why that is likely a contributing factor for the collapse of your marriage.

WHAT?

What's the matter?

WHAT?

Cutting a little too close to the bone?

WHAT?

One would think that if your kids were really as important to you as you've suggested then you would be taking some steps to remove the causes for that collapse.

WHAT?

Not expressing them at every opportunity you get.

WHAT?
[youtube]-bzB2N9xnJk[/youtube]

[Skep tickle]

Okay - here to help! HJ described performing a non-blinded, non-randomized trial to prove himself right test his hypothesis about the Slymepit.

Hypothesis:
“See, there are two main hypothesis [sic] of [sic] the SlymePit:”
1) “either they are a hate group targeting feminists and those interested in social justice" or
2) “they are a band of skeptics ridiculing some clueless peers who’ve practically turned a few bad ideas into a religion”

HJ doesn’t need to tell readers at FTB “which one SlymePit members believe is true”. We can take one of them, let's say (2), as the “working hypothesis”, which makes (1) then the “alternate hypothesis”.

...

Doesn't matter how much silk you buy, it's still going to be a pig in a dress. You can't start off with false dilemma as a hypothesis and apply it to a broadly diverse population that, frankly, can't even agree on many fundamental issues and expect any kind of valid results.

It really reminds me of the Christian apologetics by Lewis (Liar, Lord, Lunatic), but at least Lewis used a false trilemma instead of a false dilemma.

Sure. But if he had a process & criteria spelled out and he followed them, he might find that the group he's studying didn't fit either of the 2 possibilities he'd first laid out.

(snort - of course that's not going to happen)

[Steersman]

Steers & comhcinc, how about putting each other on ignore - and then ignoring each other.

If anyone thinks there are posts in which someone here has purposefully misquoted you, go ahead & click the report button on the first instance of the misquote and describe the issue. (No guarantees as to action, but that way you can have Lsuoma & his plebes take a look.)

Thanks; maybe a good suggestion, particularly the report button - hadn't thought of that.

[comhcinc]

hadn't thought of that.

[youtube]86MO-JWTNjo[/youtube]

[Cunning Punt]

Steers & comhcinc, how about putting each other on ignore - and then ignoring each other.

If anyone thinks there are posts in which someone here has purposefully misquoted you, go ahead & click the report button on the first instance of the misquote and describe the issue. (No guarantees as to action, but that way you can have Lsuoma & his plebes take a look.)

Thanks; maybe a good suggestion, particularly the report button - hadn't thought of that.

It's official, Steersman!

That made me laugh.