Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

[James Caruthers]

Got my vote too. Although I expect I might enlarge the topic - so to speak - by suggesting that there are some "sects" of "feminism" that might reasonably be characterized as "virulent". And that she may have been labouring under a misapprehension in denying any justification for Shermer's - and other's - "it's more of a guy thing" ....

Got a shiny new title, I see.

[Sunder]

What still irritates me about the likes of Benson, Clarke, and Jafafa Clarke whatever, is that to the last they refuse to acknowledge any of the following:

1) That the criticisms they are now levying are the exact same as those coming from outside which they and their buddies have continually rebuffed.

2) That they bear significant responsibility for the conditions they now find unlivable. Particularly because of their constant, willful disregard of all outside criticism which could have helped them change direction long ago.

3) That for all their crying and hurt feelings, they have not given an attosecond's thought that many others who are not their close friends have been burned by this same crooked establishment.

All this points toward monumental egotism. They have now been hurt. Those other people? The ones who repeatedly said FTB was heading in a bad direction based on their own experience there? They were hurt because they deserved it. The system was working fine right up until the very moment something bad happened to me. Now it's just gone too far. I don't deserve to be hurt. I deserve to be the guy doing the hurting!

[Steersman]

It's all ok, the whole topic of trans-everything has been Hornbecked and it all becomes clear.

" 'Woman' is statistical, not absolute", also "fuzzy", because micropenises.

http://i.imgur.com/nicsAMo.png

A veritable embarassment of riches to see FTB and company (mostly) painting themselves into corners and chasing their tails, not to mention stabbing each other in the back (schadenfreude for fun and profit), over imprecise definitions for words.

But have to agree, in part at least, with Hornbeck – and with Billie from Ockham (though it pains me to say so – just kidding) – that “female” and “male” both are literally fuzzy sets, i.e., “sets whose elements have degrees of membership”. More particularly and I think maybe somewhat more accurately, it seems what is taking place is some good old fashioned reification – “treating an abstraction as a concrete thing”. And in this case, “female” and “male” aren’t really things in themselves but are merely labels that denote degrees of membership: some 49% of the population possess an X-X karyotype along with the typically associated genitalia and reproductive plumbing while another 49% of the population possess an X-Y karyotype and the typically associated genitalia and reproductive plumbing. In which case those members might be characterized as “black-belt” degree female and male, respectively, while one might modify Hornbeck’s “Transwomen are women. (Full stop)” to “transwomen” are “orange or green belt women” – so to speak.

[Steersman]

Got my vote too. Although I expect I might enlarge the topic - so to speak - by suggesting that there are some "sects" of "feminism" that might reasonably be characterized as "virulent". And that she may have been labouring under a misapprehension in denying any justification for Shermer's - and other's - "it's more of a guy thing" ....

Got a shiny new title, I see.

:) :dance: :mrgreen: Moving up in the world. And my mother said I'd never amount to anything ... ;-)

[bhoytony]

Ophie's pet gay has appeared on Not Thunderdome:

Josh, Official SpokesGay

25 July 2015 at 10:15 pm

How squalid this all is. Some of you self satisfied motherfuckers are just the living end.

"the living end"?

http://www.wow247.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... stshow.gif

[feathers]

This is the best day ever:

Chris Clarke
25 July 2015 at 5:44 pm
Just in case anyone missed the significance of Jafafa Hots’ statement, to which I had been alerted:
He has long been estranged from his birth family due to a long history of trauma, about which he has written in public.
He just outed himself as my brother as a way of making a point about the chronic toxicity of this place.
That’s how bad it is. To people the Horde claims to like. Jafafa Hots would rather be known as a member of his birth family than as a Hordeling.
I’ll let you get on with your #notallhordelings dissembling now. Me, I need to take a Silkwood shower and get back to not thinking about this place.

Oh my, one insignificant blog out of thousands on the internets is instrumental in the happy reconciliation of a family! Now excuse me while I find a kleenex

...to wipe off the tears from laughing

[Kirbmarc]

What still irritates me about the likes of Benson, Clarke, and Jafafa Clarke whatever, is that to the last they refuse to acknowledge any of the following:

1) That the criticisms they are now levying are the exact same as those coming from outside which they and their buddies have continually rebuffed.

2) That they bear significant responsibility for the conditions they now find unlivable. Particularly because of their constant, willful disregard of all outside criticism which could have helped them change direction long ago.

3) That for all their crying and hurt feelings, they have not given an attosecond's thought that many others who are not their close friends have been burned by this same crooked establishment.

All this points toward monumental egotism. They have now been hurt. Those other people? The ones who repeatedly said FTB was heading in a bad direction based on their own experience there? They were hurt because they deserved it. The system was working fine right up until the very moment something bad happened to me. Now it's just gone too far. I don't deserve to be hurt. I deserve to be the guy doing the hurting!

But of course. The narrative is that FTB is a beacon of feminism, liberalism and tolerance in an atheist-skeptic movement infested with dudebros and fascists. Since Benson and Clarke identify as liberal, feminist, tolerant people they just can't understand why they're being attacked by people they thought of as allies.

The infighting is only the logical consequence of having banned anyone who wasn't a card-carrying SJW. The rabid dogs in the Horde (the "not nice" blog) are hungry and need blood. They need an enemy. If all the dissenters are banned they'll start eating each other.

Ophelia and Clarke are only the beginning. If they leave others will become targets of the Horde (maybe Carrier, maybe Thibeault, maybe even PZ himself in the long run).

Very few of them will realize that the Evil Slymepitters were telling them that FTB had issues with purges and dogmatism since 2012, and that what happened is simply the logical consequence of those issues. The Slymepitters (and all the other critics) were Evil and so they were wrong, if they were right.

FTB is going to end with an all-out bloody civil war. Many will flounce, many will be banned, and after the dust settles only four or five pretty pathetic blogs will carry on, and they'll get a handful of comments for every article when things go well.

In other words, it will go the way of the Atheism Plus forum.

[Kirbmarc]

What was that PZ said a while ago about his pack of well honed predators, or something to that effect?

Do you mean this -

rudeblog.jpg

I love the bit about how the regulars will "try to get you to engage rationally" before they "release the rabid hounds", because acting like rabid hounds is the height of rationality, right?

Rationality is a product of the Patriarchy, shitlord. Just like skepticism, or science.

[feathers]

Yes, a concave-up object that is wider than it is tall is usually a bowl,

...or the buttplug HJ is wearing up the bowl :lol:

[Kirbmarc]

Cats cannot communicate to you the thoughts they would have to express to convey that information to you. Only a fucked up human could.

Women can't perfectly communicate their experience to men either. So, a man could never perfectly know what it's like to be a woman. You could dismiss trans people as delusional on those grounds, but again I find that weaksauce. Because they aren't saying they reality as we know it is wrong, which is a very strong claim and one that could properly be called delusional. They're making the far weaker claim that they feel that reality as we know it should be different than it apparently is. Male to female trans people, for example, are perfectly aware of the fact they weren't born with a vagina and female breasts. That's a huge distinction from the attitude you see in insane asylums.

I can understand what Kirbmarc is saying, it looks a bit like delusion. I'm arguing that the facts we have demand a more precisely defined categorization.

And all fancy words aside if someone is clearly taking on a huge social burden with the goal of being called something other than what you'd traditionally call them? And you can't spare the ounce of mental effort it takes to make the accommodation? You're a fucking cunt.

I'm perfectly willing to call someone what they want to be called. I agree that if, for example, you deliberately and repeatedly call a trans woman a man to her face, you're being a cunt. Shapiro was a cunt to Tur, for example.

The problem is that SJW trans activists don't simply want to be referred to as the gender they prefer. They demand that people immediately understand which gender they want to be, they want to be able to yell and whine at people who make mistakes and "misgender" them, they shame people for not being sexually attracted to them, they threaten physical violence on people who are being cunts to them (like Tur) did and they demand that people change their mind to accommodate for them.

So they're being huge cunts, too. What is especially cunt-ish is shaming people as bigots just for not being attracted to them. Guess what, people are attracted to what they're attracted to, and if you're not attractive to most men (and lesbians) because you look like a man or because you have a "girlcock" you have to take it in stride.

If lesbian porn stars refuse to work with you because you have a dick and you bitch and moan about it you're being a cunt. If men think you look like a dude in a dress and wouldn't touch you with ten-foot pole, and you shame them as "bigots", you're being a massive cunt.

[Tony Parsehole]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little heretic? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Ordo Malleus, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on The Eye of Terror, and I have over 300 confirmed purges. I am trained in interrogation and I’m the top sanctioned psyker in the entire Ordo Hereticus. You are nothing to me but just another heretic. I will wipe you the fuck out with sacred fire the likes of which has never been seen before in this Empire, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with that heresy over the Voxnet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my Ordo and your chaos taint is being traced right now so you better prepare for the psyker storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the heretical little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime by warp transit, and I can purge you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Empire of Mankind and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your chaos-tainted ass off the face of His galaxy, you little shit. If only you could have known what holy retribution your little “clever” heresy was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn cultist. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, heretic.

:laughing-rollingyellow:

[Steersman]

@Steers,

You snooze you loose. New sex app films couples in case police need to know

A NEW app has been launched aiming to cut down on date rape and false allegations by making would-be lovers record video - granting sexual consent.

Users film 20-second clips on their phones stating who they are about to have sex with - also recording their face and their partner's.

It is then stored for use by police if there are any allegations of rape or other sex crimes.

The app, named We-Consent, will destroy the recording if there is not a definitive "yes" and users will have to try again and reconsider if they want to proceed.

Source is Community of the Wrongly Accused

A new app provides evidence of consent between sex partners--and the usual suspects are upset
A new app that records sex partners consenting to the encounter, and thus provides fairly ironclad proof of consent in the event of a rape claim, is being criticized by the usual suspects who are aghast that some men are in fear of being falsely accused.

An organization called the Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Centre slammed the new App for suggesting that that "rape is the result of misunderstanding rather than an attack."

How ridiculous! Rape allegations -- the product of a misunderstanding?! Why, that's rape apology, victim blaming, and misogyny rolled into one!

Follow the links Shitlords! You know how I quotemine.

Thanks for the heads-up. And to Jet Lagg for a reference to the same App in the Daily Mail Online. But I'm not at all bent out of shape that someone else is carrying the ball into the end-zone - or at least making a first down - as I don't have the time or money or skill set to be able to do so myself. Maybe I should set up a GoFundMe account? ;-)

However, I think that that App - "We-Consent" - still suffers from a notable and "problematic" limitiation, i.e., the rescinding of consent sometime after the 20 second recording; only way to be sure is to record the festivities from start to finish. Obviously not all couples, or groups, are going to benefit from the App, but it certainly seems that more than a few developers think there may still be a market, that there's some gold in "them thar hills". In any case, as a point of reference, my elaboration on the theme over at Atheism Plus. Anyone interested in throwing a fox in amongst the chickens - if a somewhat moribund group of them - may wish to apprise the good folks at Atheism Plus of the latest developments on that front. ;-)

[Billy The Hillbilly]

:teasing-tease: :techie-hal:

https://cocacolaswitzerland.files.wordp ... -wave.jpeg

CATCH THE WAVE!

[AndrewV69]

Does HorneyBecker read the pit? If not would one of you lurkers pass these on to him?

The subject is Haplodiploidy

*Fun fact: the signal for male development in utero is not exactly the same as the signal for male development at puberty, and it’s possible to be unable to produce the fetal signal but successfully produce the puberty signal, producing babies that are born with female external genitalia but grow a penis and testicles at puberty (nearly all of these children identify as men as adults). This was common enough in certain villages in the Dominican Republic that they have a name for it, which translates to “penis at 12.” It’s considered a joyous thing because sons are more valued than daughters.

The Penis at 12 Syndrome business leads to During the mid-70s in the Dominican Republic, eighteen young girls all born around the same time physically transformed into boys once they hit adolescence.

These individuals were all genetically male. However, they lacked the enzyme that convert testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone response for fetal development of male external genitalia. Thus, XY individuals with this syndrome are born with un-descended testicles and lacking male external genitalia. These individuals appear female, however they will still produce elevated levels of testosterone once puberty hits. And so at about twelve, the girls' voices deepened and they grew mustaches. Also, since their genitalia were now sensitive to testosterone, their testicles descended and the clitoris grew into a penis. The girls became boys.

Testosterone at lower* level during the birth by itself can only do part of the gender job.

The development of a penis is dependent on a testosterone product called DHT during earlier developmental stages. People without DHT are therefore born with female genitalia. When puberty started, the testosterone produced at a much higher level from the testicles hidden in the children’s abdomens acted on the brain and pushed their body to finish the gender job – just a little late. According to anthropologists, the villagers in this macho culture rejoiced when they found out they had a son rather than a daughter. The villagers made up a new word to label these children. It was guevedoces which means penis at twelve.

* edited. orig had lover instead of lower

[Ape+lust]

I'm sorry about dumping, but those other 2 were pure ass.

Once again, here's Peez laying the Minnesota Burn on Morales.

Or Peez going, "OMG, NEGROES!!". That works, too.

[rayshul]

Holy shit that guevedoce thing is real.

[Old_ones]

Here's my favorite:

John Morales
25 July 2015 at 7:46 pm
PZ, I don’t think closing this place will diminish the tribalism one bit, though it probably will constrain its expression somewhat.
I note that you’ve already guided the character of the commentariat from what it was to what it is.

http://imgur.com/KE20a1n.png

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Poor Morales, nobody likes him. He should stop going [meta] and move to a different forum.

[deLurch]

And here's the money shot, y'all:

PZ Myers
25 July 2015 at 7:30 pm
I’m seriously considering shutting down both the lounge and this thread permanently. Having a community with strong social bonds is nice, except when it turns into a search for markers for the outsider and subsequent vilification. I am not enjoying it at all. One solution might be to remove the internal reinforcement of tribalism.

(Color and bolding his.)

https://archive.is/YWEOI

I wonder how much of all this trans-Ophelia-terf drama has to do with the final shut down of the Atheism Plus forums. It was successfully killed off by themselves. And with no where else to go to lash out at people, they have set up home on FtB. It was bound to happen. It was just a question of when.

[rayshul]

It's NOW!

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH

[rayshul]

My vision of Zvancon involves about ten people (who are all on at least one panel), a whiteboard, about four different slideshows and people who wear shorts.

[Jan Steen]

PZ Myers:

Ophelia is not a TERF. Not even close. Sorry, #346, that link is not evidence that Ophelia denies personhood to trans individuals: it’s evidence that Ophelia really, really detests being pushed around by leading questions. But it is a really good example of how people are translating one uncharitable reading of a comment about one thing into a whole string of ugly inferences about something else. [Says the most uncharitable scumbag in the a/s blogosphere.]

Nerd of Redhead:

What I do know, based on assertiveness training many years ago, is that there is a difference between having your say (being assertive), and requiring the other person to agree with you (being aggressive, or a bully).[Says the most agressive bully on Pharyngula.]

WMD Kitty -- Survivor

Meanwhile, I think we could all do with toning it down a bit, because getting hostile isn’t helping anyone. [Says one of the most hostile commenters on FTB.]

Chris Clarke

He just outed himself as my brother as a way of making a point about the chronic toxicity of this place.
That’s how bad it is. To people the Horde claims to like. Jafafa Hots would rather be known as a member of his birth family than as a Hordeling.
I’ll let you get on with your #notallhordelings dissembling now. Me, I need to take a Silkwood shower and get back to not thinking about this place. [Says the guy who helped create and nurture the toxic atmosphere of "this place".]

This is hypocrisy reaching Olympic heights. They are like hardened criminals who pretend to be outraged that some people engage in jaywalking or tax evasion. It's absolutely hilarious.

Hoist by their own petard.

[Jan Steen]

My vision of Zvancon involves about ten people (who are all on at least one panel), a whiteboard, about four different slideshows and people who wear shorts.

There will be a lot of preaching to the choir, but with hardly enough attendees to form a choir. It will be mind-numbingly boring. A cruel and unusual punishment to have to sit through.

[feathers]

Hoist by their own petard.

Indeed, hosed by their own retards!

[rayshul]

Hoist by their own petard.

Indeed, hosed by their own retards!

Perhaps this is a deliberate tour de farce?

[windy]

Does HorneyBecker read the pit? If not would one of you lurkers pass these on to him?

The subject is Haplodiploidy

*Fun fact: the signal for male development in utero is not exactly the same as the signal for male development at puberty, and it’s possible to be unable to produce the fetal signal but successfully produce the puberty signal, producing babies that are born with female external genitalia but grow a penis and testicles at puberty (nearly all of these children identify as men as adults). This was common enough in certain villages in the Dominican Republic that they have a name for it, which translates to “penis at 12.” It’s considered a joyous thing because sons are more valued than daughters.

Interesting, but that doesn't have anything to do with haplodiploidy.

[Jan Steen]

Hoist by their own petard.

Indeed, hosed by their own retards!

Perhaps this is a deliberate tour de farce?

A cumplay on words.

[Tribble]

Uh-oh:

PZ Myers

25 July 2015 at 7:30 pm

I’m seriously considering shutting down both the lounge and this thread permanently. Having a community with strong social bonds is nice, except when it turns into a search for markers for the outsider and subsequent vilification. I am not enjoying it at all. One solution might be to remove the internal reinforcement of tribalism.

That's rich seeing as he's the leader and Grand Poobah of the tribe he built.

[Tribble]

Unsurprisingly Paul walks away from his handiwork. Banning by banning, reinforcement by reinforcement he built this problem. There is nobody else to blame. Yet here he is, refusing responsibility and attacking one who points it out.

[BarnOwl]

For Barnowl:

http://weibo.zhaock.org/status/55b22635c69cdf9cd601bb68

(Warning: may cause diabetes)

KYOOOTTT!!!!

It looks as if it's asking for directions.

[Guest]

What was that PZ said a while ago about his pack of well honed predators, or something to that effect?

Do you mean this -

rudeblog.jpg

I love the bit about how the regulars will "try to get you to engage rationally" before they "release the rabid hounds", because acting like rabid hounds is the height of rationality, right?

It's all gone a bit "Isle of Doctor Moreaux" over there, hasn't? The broken, wild beasts will have their revenge.

[Tribble]

Got my vote too. Although I expect I might enlarge the topic - so to speak - by suggesting that there are some "sects" of "feminism" that might reasonably be characterized as "virulent". And that she may have been labouring under a misapprehension in denying any justification for Shermer's - and other's - "it's more of a guy thing" ....

Got a shiny new title, I see.

You made me look!

[feathers]

Hoist by their own petard.

Indeed, hosed by their own retards!

Perhaps this is a deliberate tour de farce?

Yes, a dauphiné libéré tour de france!

[HunnyBunny]

The race to be the first to have recognised Ophelia's horrific trans / islama / otherkinbug phobia has commenced on Twitter.

I'm hoping for someone to claim to have known her in primary school aged 6 and heard that she once laughed at a new boy for walking into the girls toilets.

[Old_ones]

It is not an accident that the slime pitters are all crawling out of the wood work to defend Ophelia and attack Ophelia’s critics

I want it to be crystal clear that anything that I wrote that could be taken as defending Ophelia Benson was merely a splash-protection from my attempts to defend HJ Hornbeck's use of the term "fuzzy" in reference to gender. Yes, a concave-up object that is wider than it is tall is usually a bowl, but put a handle on it and it might be a cup; yes, a concave-up object that is taller than it is wide, with a handle, is usually a cup, but take the handle off and it might be a bowl. I will leave the mutatis mutandi operations that are needed to make this analogy work for gender up to you (because I have no plans to tell any of you what part of a human is, to me, the handle).

I think the problem with that analogy in relation to biological sex is that biological sexes exist to fulfill two distinct and very specific functions, and because of that people of one sex or another have physical appearances that we tend to feel that we can distinguish easily. There might be some ambiguity between what constitutes a cup and a bowl, but you'd never mistake either one for a dildo.

My first point is that I don't see two fuzzy groups with respect to biological sex, I see three sharp ones. The first one is capable of carrying out the female reproductive role, the second is capable of carrying out the male reproductive role, and the third is not capable of either (to the best of my knowledge no one is capable of both reproductive functions).

We don't stay in one set our whole lives, generally. Everyone is born into the third set, and many people die in the third set, but most adults go through a period of being in either set 1 or set 2. Anyone can move back into set 3 at any point in their lives, and some people stay in set 3 their whole lives. The problem is that we have two distinct gender identities that come out of these sets, and those gender identities are based on set 1 and set 2, and that we use visual cues to tell them apart. The other problem is that people can't move from set 1 to set 2, or from set 2 to set 1 (this might be possible in the future with advanced surgical and stem cell technology, but it isn't now).

So a person who moves into set 1 at puberty but feels they should be in set 2 is doubly stuck, because they look like a member of set 1 and they can never move into set 2. This transgender person can either stay in set 1 and modify superficial aspects of their appearance to look like a member of set 2, or they can modify their body profoundly to get a partial set of the equipment one would need to be in set 2, and put themselves in set 3 in the process. People who say that transgender people are delusional have a point, because you can't move from set 1 to set 2 or vice versa. People who say that transgender people aren't delusional, also have a point becuase the transgender "man" I was just talking about is set 3, just like the 25 year old "man" with Klienfelter syndrome who is also set 3, or the 80 year old post menopausal "woman" who is also set 3, and most of us would concede that the man with Klienfelter is a man, and that Ophelia Benson is a woman.

Personally, I think we are all delusional because we have constructed identities out of what are essentially functions, and we've made 2 rigid ones instead of 2 or more flexible ones. Sex exists as a means to an end, and no one is capable of accomplishing that end for their entire lives. Its true that the function we developed has a large effect on our physiologies and biochemistries, but we'll continue to have confusion w.r.t. transgender and intersex people until we put sex in perspective.

[AndrewV69]

<chopity chop chop>
Personally, I think we are all delusional because we have constructed identities out of what are essentially functions, and we've made 2 rigid ones instead of 2 or more flexible ones. Sex exists as a means to an end, and no one is capable of accomplishing that end for their entire lives. Its true that the function we developed has a large effect on our physiologies and biochemistries, but we'll continue to have confusion w.r.t. transgender and intersex people until we put sex in perspective.

And we have HornyBecker who is really trying to enlighten us and show us the way. :popcorn:

[Old_ones]

<chopity chop chop>
Personally, I think we are all delusional because we have constructed identities out of what are essentially functions, and we've made 2 rigid ones instead of 2 or more flexible ones. Sex exists as a means to an end, and no one is capable of accomplishing that end for their entire lives. Its true that the function we developed has a large effect on our physiologies and biochemistries, but we'll continue to have confusion w.r.t. transgender and intersex people until we put sex in perspective.

And we have HornyBecker who is really trying to enlighten us and show us the way. :popcorn:

My pet theory about Hornbeck is that he thinks biological sex is a social construct because he's never participated in sexual intercourse, and so he doesn't understand how it works.

[Please Don't]

What do you call the school of Marxist Feminism which emphasizes the significance of class issues and the experience of girlhood in a capitalist patriarchy?

Spoiler: Serf and terf.

[Guest]

The latest from the Drum:

Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-
26 July 2015 at 5:27 am
You know, I find it really interesting how 2 people (abbycadabra and WMD Kitty) saying Ophelia is a TERF turns into the narrative that there’s a massive attack on Ophelia for being a TERF and she’s totally entitled to react as nastily as she wants to because of that.
As others have pointed out, there are more than two possibilities here that trans-inclusive or TERF.

Apparently writing that "The poisoner oolon, who went to Pharyngula to work up the troops against me yesterday, is one such; that dude wants scalps, period" is OK as long as you only attack the nasty Horde, because they are really the bad people and we all know that it’s OK to do bad things to bad people because they fucking deserve it.

You know what folks, I think I’m done here for a while. I’ll stick to the Lounge because there are people there I consider my friends, but really, don’t expect much from me otherwise. I’m not a whipping girl.

I didn't know cognitive dissonance had an event horizon, but now I do.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

<chopity chop chop>
Personally, I think we are all delusional because we have constructed identities out of what are essentially functions, and we've made 2 rigid ones instead of 2 or more flexible ones. Sex exists as a means to an end, and no one is capable of accomplishing that end for their entire lives. Its true that the function we developed has a large effect on our physiologies and biochemistries, but we'll continue to have confusion w.r.t. transgender and intersex people until we put sex in perspective.

And we have HornyBecker who is really trying to enlighten us and show us the way. :popcorn:

My pet theory about Hornbeck is that he thinks biological sex is a social construct because he's never participated in sexual intercourse, and so he doesn't understand how it works.

Careful now! He's just waiting to bind us in Markov chains and have his dirty way with us as we lay there helpless to resist the thrust of his trusty micropenis.

[Dick Strawkins]

It all makes sense if you think of women as toilets...

...and transwomen as urinals

:rimshot:

[Service Dog]

.... And all fancy words aside if someone is clearly taking on a huge social burden with the goal of being called something other than what you'd traditionally call them? And you can't spare the ounce of mental effort it takes to make the accommodation? You're a fucking cunt.

Paul Fussell''s book "Class" describes how the middle-class tries to fancy-up their talk by insisting that extra syllables equals Polite, Educated, Classy, and Correct.

So, ''Black' sounds short & rude, but 'African-American' sounds proper.

(Yet the upper and lower class both stick with Black.)

The Middle-Class emphasis is on "manners", because they believe that using terminology which sounds (to their boorish ears) Educated or Wealthy or British... and thus is seen as a route to attaining better status.


Liberal & Progressive circles have a huge Middle-Class Problem: the left is no longer driven by gritty low union workers & black civil rights strivers... nor high elites named Kennedy or Rockefeller. Middlebrows who still read Newsweek & Time define the liberal side, now.

AND SO... we see Social Justice becoming an exercise in "manners", all-about which prim&proper pronouns will save the day,
aghast a using the wrong fork at a fancy meal.

What a Fred Flintstone bowling-ball flinger is Northern Minnesota's PZ Myers. And yet, look at his yokel affectations of trying to attain betterment by wishing he was a cutting-edge political intellectual firebrand; sitting in his beret in the candlelit cafes of downtown Morris.

PZ Myers is the French Intellectual that today's SJWs deserve, because their movement an empty exercise in shrewish manners-policing.

What a cunt one must be to expend an ounce of effort giving any fucks about which pronouns Other People use, or whether Other People secretly doubt transwomen are women, or whether Other People's feminism matches the stale version they taught you at State College.

[Oglebart]

The latest from the Drum:

Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-
26 July 2015 at 5:27 am
You know, I find it really interesting how 2 people (abbycadabra and WMD Kitty) saying Ophelia is a TERF turns into the narrative that there’s a massive attack on Ophelia for being a TERF and she’s totally entitled to react as nastily as she wants to because of that.
As others have pointed out, there are more than two possibilities here that trans-inclusive or TERF.

Apparently writing that "The poisoner oolon, who went to Pharyngula to work up the troops against me yesterday, is one such; that dude wants scalps, period" is OK as long as you only attack the nasty Horde, because they are really the bad people and we all know that it’s OK to do bad things to bad people because they fucking deserve it.

You know what folks, I think I’m done here for a while. I’ll stick to the Lounge because there are people there I consider my friends, but really, don’t expect much from me otherwise. I’m not a whipping girl.

You should just make an account PZ :lol:

I didn't know cognitive dissonance had an event horizon, but now I do.

[Tribble]

So I'm reading along on some pointless commercial article designed to sell advertising because boredom... I run into some 'ten words you need to stop saying thing linked in the 'news-feed/interest section' of Yahoo!

I get to this 'word' you shouldn't use anymore:

Friendly Reminder

Example: "Friendly reminder that saying 'I see what you did there' is ableist." I know this is technically two words, but it's an overused phrase that definitely needs to go. While it may have started out as a good way to try to inform people about their negative habits without trying to start a fight, it has now devolved into the social justice warrior mantra.

More and more the SJWs are becoming a punching bag. After which they'll slide even further into irrelevancy because, like any moral panic, the out-rage and screaming fits can only go so long before people just burn out on the crap or start pushing back against the extremism that inevitably infects those kinds of movements.

[Oglebart]

Balls, the one time I don't preview!

[Sunder]

Man the comments on that FA article...when I linked it yesterday I had only read the top-rated ones but they were just the tip of the iceberg.

Thing is, I keep seeing the same couple of people playing apologist all the way down, but I lost count of how many people were upset with the article, and at least one person has declared that Hemant lost his Patreon support for publishing it.

I'm not 100% sure if that's the right way to go, since it's possible that maybe Hemant doesn't agree with it, but at the very least he ought to step into his own comments and say something (if he did, I didn't see it).

[Sunder]

Well shit, nevermind. Should have checked Twitter. Hemant does endorse the piece.

Welp, disregard the last line of my previous post. I'm not gonna stop reading the guy's site just yet but this is a pretty big screw-up and I'm liable to be a lot less charitable in future readings.

[screwtape]

And we have HornyBecker who is really trying to enlighten us and show us the way.

Thank you. I didn't need reminding that I was one of those who actually bought Frampton Comes Alive back in the 70's.

[jet_lagg]

.... And all fancy words aside if someone is clearly taking on a huge social burden with the goal of being called something other than what you'd traditionally call them? And you can't spare the ounce of mental effort it takes to make the accommodation? You're a fucking cunt.

<snip>

What a cunt one must be to expend an ounce of effort giving any fucks about which pronouns Other People use, or whether Other People secretly doubt transwomen are women, or whether Other People's feminism matches the stale version they taught you at State College.

It doesn't take any effort to get pissed off at someone for being an asshole. Intentionally hurting someone's feelings for literally no reason other than to hurt their feelings is a dick thing to do. As was pointed out, Shapiro was being an absolute cunt (not that this excused a violent threat in return). This is such an obvious point that it's no wonder people must attempt to change the subject when called out on it ("What? I'm not allowed to secretly doubt she's a woman?").

[Karmakin]

Personally, I think we are all delusional because we have constructed identities out of what are essentially functions, and we've made 2 rigid ones instead of 2 or more flexible ones. Sex exists as a means to an end, and no one is capable of accomplishing that end for their entire lives. Its true that the function we developed has a large effect on our physiologies and biochemistries, but we'll continue to have confusion w.r.t. transgender and intersex people until we put sex in perspective.

What we call gender, generally speaking is probably better described as a complete rundown of our various traits...basically how our brain works more or less, and which for simplicity speak we tend to link to sex in order to "shortcut" ideas.

Now, I think that shortcutting is wrong..not so much ethically but certainly it's a type of logical fallacy, and we should find ways to overcome it.

But the problem with the SJW/Neo-Fem camp is that those traits themselves are "socially constructed", and include some sort of political statement. TERFs are just people who come to a certain conclusion (or set of conclusions) on what that political statement is in the case of Transgender (Misogyny for FtM and desire to abuse women in MtF). Personally I think asking that question as a whole is entirely fucked up. We're a lot more biologically determined than that, and as such often our intrinsic traits are natural...not the result of some political statement or organization.

[Tribble]

And we have HornyBecker who is really trying to enlighten us and show us the way.

Thank you. I didn't need reminding that I was one of those who actually bought Frampton Comes Alive back in the 70's.

Don't feel bad. The damn album when platinum so it's not like you were the only one.

Also, TRIGGERED you fucking SHITLORD. Now I have to re-live the PTSD I suffered at the cruel mendacity of Top-40 Radio all-over-again... I must of heard "Do You Feel Like We Do" a million times. It's right up there with "Stairway to Heaven" and "Copacabana" in my 'massively overplayed songs that make me change oldie radio stations immediately' list...

[jet_lagg]

Thought I'd pop back to Earth from Riza. Some of the stories I could tell you about there......

The last few days have been FUCKING AWESOME! I must admit, I thought Islam would be the major schism-shitter among the #FTBullies, rather than trans issues. I still think the Islam issue will fuck them up good and proper. You just CAN'T pretend to have liberal and progressive values if you defend Islam's faults and try to divert attention from its impact.

The role of THE PIT and ERV in all this can't be underestimated. We kept the pressure on the fuckers, screen-capped their hypocrisy and bullshit, injected them with paranoia....we FUCKING OWNED THEM. Somewhere in their cognitive dissonance-riddled minds, they are thinking, "we are losing". We have repeatedly humiliated PZ Myers and damaged his reputation. Jason Cunt and PZ Myers are classed as sex creepers, as per SJW definitions, Rebecca Watson is a rapist, we fucking destroyed Avicenna, we highlighted Greta's dodgy position on consent. The list goes on, and if you reading this PZ, it has only just fucking begun!

If you are a "social justice warrior" or one of the FTBullies, watch out, THE PIT and ARNIE are about.

Not to mention the semen-drenched disgrace of Richard Carrier.

We can't really take credit for Carrier. He did most of it to himself. For like a month it seemed I'd open my email to see he'd written a new post, read a line or two and be like...

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... -Shock.gif

[Tapir]

http://i.imgur.com/cg7I1vP.jpg

[Tigzy]

I once saw this guy on a bridge about to jump off. I said, 'Don't do it!'. Xe said, 'But the world is full of racism, misogyny and inequality and I can't take it anymore!'. I replied, 'Are you left wing?' Xe said, 'Yes.'

'So am I,' I said. 'Are you a feminist?'

'Yes.'

'Me too!,' I said. 'First wave, second wave or third wave?'

'Third wave.'

'Me too! Intersectional?'

'Yes.'

'Same here! So I take it you subscribe to patriarchy theory and accept that we live in a rape culture?'

'Oh defintely.'

'So do I! And do you believe we exist under an oppressive white-supremacist kyriarchy bent on maintaining a western colonialist hegemony as an expression of toxic masculinity?'

'Damn right I do.'

'Likewise! And do you think white people have no place invading the safe spaces of people of colour?'

'Yep!'

'Woo - same here! And I guess you believe males shouldn't oppress women by invading their safe spaces too, right?

'Absolutely.'

'Damn good to hear! And you no doubt you understand that women also includes trans women too, right?'

'Erm -'

'JUMP OFF THE FUCKING BRIDGE ALREADY YOU SHITLORD FUCK UGH I DON'T EVEN!'

[Tony Parsehole]

http://i.imgur.com/cg7I1vP.jpg

So sad.

[Tribble]

I love Cult of Personality headlines:

USA, Favre's nephew take gold as world champs

The US team defeated Japan 52-12. The win finished off an easy run through the bracket for the Americans, who won each game by at least three scores, including an 82-0 defeat of France.

Why is this non-event front page news at NFL.COM? Brett Favre's nephew was on the team. Otherwise it wouldn't have been reported. Just like all the previous contests...

Also, I see that France could have used Phil's help. With all that metal in his body, he's practically the Terminator now...

[Tribble]

http://i.imgur.com/cg7I1vP.jpg

:golfclap:

[Tigzy]

http://i.imgur.com/cg7I1vP.jpg

Please 'Horde', please do commence to bitch about how you're being denied a platform, about how a means to freely express yourself has been curtailed - please, please do.

[Tribble]

I once saw this guy on a bridge about to jump off. I said, 'Don't do it!'. Xe said, 'But the world is full of racism, misogyny and inequality and I can't take it anymore!'. I replied, 'Are you left wing?' Xe said, 'Yes.'

'So am I,' I said. 'Are you a feminist?'

'Yes.'

'Me too!,' I said. 'First wave, second wave or third wave?'

'Third wave.'

'Me too! Intersectional?'

'Yes.'

'Same here! So I take it you subscribe to patriarchy theory and accept that we live in a rape culture?'

'Oh defintely.'

'So do I! And do you believe we exist under an oppressive white-supremacist kyriarchy bent on maintaining a western colonialist hegemony as an expression of toxic masculinity?'

'Damn right I do.'

'Likewise! And do you think white people have no place invading the safe spaces of people of colour?'

'Yep!'

'Woo - same here! And I guess you believe males shouldn't oppress women by invading their safe spaces too, right?

'Absolutely.'

'Damn good to hear! And you no doubt you understand that women also includes trans women too, right?'

'Erm -'

'JUMP OFF THE FUCKING BRIDGE ALREADY YOU SHITLORD FUCK UGH I DON'T EVEN!'

That was good.

[Tony Parsehole]

I once saw this guy on a bridge about to jump off. I said, 'Don't do it!'. Xe said, 'But the world is full of racism, misogyny and inequality and I can't take it anymore!'. I replied, 'Are you left wing?' Xe said, 'Yes.'

'So am I,' I said. 'Are you a feminist?'

'Yes.'

'Me too!,' I said. 'First wave, second wave or third wave?'

'Third wave.'

'Me too! Intersectional?'

'Yes.'

'Same here! So I take it you subscribe to patriarchy theory and accept that we live in a rape culture?'

'Oh defintely.'

'So do I! And do you believe we exist under an oppressive white-supremacist kyriarchy bent on maintaining a western colonialist hegemony as an expression of toxic masculinity?'

'Damn right I do.'

'Likewise! And do you think white people have no place invading the safe spaces of people of colour?'

'Yep!'

'Woo - same here! And I guess you believe males shouldn't oppress women by invading their safe spaces too, right?

'Absolutely.'

'Damn good to hear! And you no doubt you understand that women also includes trans women too, right?'

'Erm -'

'JUMP OFF THE FUCKING BRIDGE ALREADY YOU SHITLORD FUCK UGH I DON'T EVEN!'

It's funny you should write this because it's a bit like what's happening to Ophelia Benson right now.

[Tigzy]

All credit to Oolon's trolling skills here. If it wasn't for him stirring the shitpot about Ophelia, the 'Horde' would still have their Mended Drum. :lol: