The Refuge of the Toads
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
http://i.imgur.com/eeA2MYW.png
That'a a suspiciously white and male looking hand there,
so much for "diversity" at FTB.
But is it waving or drowning?
That'a a suspiciously white and male looking hand there,
so much for "diversity" at FTB.
But is it waving or drowning?
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Wow. This brought a tear to my eye. What an amazing guy he is. His comments about his hand and his childhood and his stress.mordacious1 wrote:That audio recording by Richard was gut wrenching. This is why we despise the bastards! I think they've really done it this time...they almost killed Richard Fucking Dawkins!! :xLarry Metcalfe wrote:Dawkins was re-invited by NECSS
https://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-u ... own-words/
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Hey, good luck to all participating in the live stream. Also to Matt on his date and Comhcinc's time with family.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I agree, it's a sad state of affairs. :(John D wrote:Wow. This brought a tear to my eye. What an amazing guy he is. His comments about his hand and his childhood and his stress.mordacious1 wrote:That audio recording by Richard was gut wrenching. This is why we despise the bastards! I think they've really done it this time...they almost killed Richard Fucking Dawkins!! :xLarry Metcalfe wrote:Dawkins was re-invited by NECSS
https://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-u ... own-words/
However the prognosis is good. He is expected to recover fully. I'm glad he didn't lose his humour, and apparently can even in this state say something eloquent. I find this also distressing what is going on the left, with "our people", but I was disabused of this notion a while ago. If you are a leftist, a progressive, or a feminist or any of those things: these aren't "our people". Totalitarians, right wing authoritarians, identitarians, and postmodernists aren't "my people", but this is what the Regressive Left or social justice warriors are about.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Dude sounds seriously frail. I was surprised that he'd gotten so stressed about the NECSS thing, as he always seemed to shake such things off. Still, I'm actually gonna side with the SJW contingent for once, and recommend he either stays off Twitter (where most of this shit seems to happen) or stay on it but not goad the feminist/SJW contingent. That's not victim blaming in my book; just a recommendation that he exercise some responsibility for him own health, as I - and others - have maintained likewise with regard to Hensley and Elyse. Let's face it, it's no use appealing to the SJW to lay off the old dude, as they won't. He's not well, and if he finds the opprobrium he gets from certain factions of the atheist/skeptic sphere too upsetting, then I hope he has the nous to understand that it's probably time to bow out of these social media controversies. Not that I don't enjoy his ability to wind up the bliss ninnies - it's a fucking hoot - but the dude has to think of his health.JackSkeptic wrote:Did they make that public? They are cowards so something tells me that's a no. Anyway the damage is done, to them.Mothra's Dentist wrote:Interesting update from Richard Dawkins regarding his stroke. At the end of it he mentions he was re-invited to speak, and apologized to, by conference organizers
https://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-u ... own-words/
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
My impression was that Svan simply wanted to destroy the process and doing it from the inside would allow her to crow about her achievement.welch wrote: The difference between wonderist and zvan in that was bra size, and maybe not that. Neither of them cared about actual communication, just what they could get out of it for themselves.
Wonderist, had this crazy theory,(that also seems to be held by Hornbeck) that if you use enough volume of text you can wear down your opponent, or get them to make a contradictory argument - at which point you get to claim victory!
Completely bonkers, particularly when you are dealing with Svan, who just looks for things to read in the worst possible light in order to demonize her opponents.
I always found it amusing that Wonderists reaction to having the other members of the anti FTB side of the atheist-skeptic dialogue ignore his suggestions for volume, volume, volume, was to invite Steersman to be part of the team! :lol:
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I agree.Tigzy wrote:Dude sounds seriously frail. I was surprised that he'd gotten so stressed about the NECSS thing, as he always seemed to shake such things off. Still, I'm actually gonna side with the SJW contingent for once, and recommend he either stays off Twitter (where most of this shit seems to happen) or stay on it but not goad the feminist/SJW contingent. That's not victim blaming in my book; just a recommendation that he exercise some responsibility for him own health, as I - and others - have maintained likewise with regard to Hensley and Elyse. Let's face it, it's no use appealing to the SJW to lay off the old dude, as they won't. He's not well, and if he finds the opprobrium he gets from certain factions of the atheist/skeptic sphere too upsetting, then I hope he has the nous to understand that it's probably time to bow out of these social media controversies. Not that I don't enjoy his ability to wind up the bliss ninnies - it's a fucking hoot - but the dude has to think of his health.JackSkeptic wrote:Did they make that public? They are cowards so something tells me that's a no. Anyway the damage is done, to them.Mothra's Dentist wrote:Interesting update from Richard Dawkins regarding his stroke. At the end of it he mentions he was re-invited to speak, and apologized to, by conference organizers
https://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-u ... own-words/
He should stay off twitter - or, better still, hand over his twitter account to Ricky Gervais and not tell anyone. :D
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
In fairness, I don't think it's fair to haul the likes of Lindy West over the coals for this one, as we all thought the Dawk was in rude health. Would she and her ilk have been so vicious had they been aware of how the stress was affecting him? Who knows. In any case, you literally can't haul Lindy over the coals for this or anything, cos she's a gert tub o lard.mordacious1 wrote:That audio recording by Richard was gut wrenching. This is why we despise the bastards! I think they've really done it this time...they almost killed Richard Fucking Dawkins!! :xLarry Metcalfe wrote:Dawkins was re-invited by NECSS
https://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-u ... own-words/
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Coulda been me. ERV also knows him, she did her graduate work in the same US state where D lives & they attended some of the same conferences.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:IIRC, that was Skep tickle.Couch wrote:Can I use this as an opportunity try to clear up one weird piece of Damion-related possibly-mis-remembered shit in my own mind?Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I'm on the side of letting Damion participate.
Despite the weird hatred some have, he's a nice bloke who often fights the good fight elsewhere. And if he plans on shitting on the Pit, well, it's a talk with multiple participants and I'm quite confident they'll be able to rebut any bullshit.
Also, Damion was ballsy enough to go to a con wearing his Slymepit shirt. That should count for something :)
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
Is it possible that the first time he appeared here was off the back of ERV saying something like 'Hi you might have seen this guy Damion arguing around various places, well he's a guy I know IRL and although he sometimes seems acts like a walker he's just shit-stirring and he's a really good guy, so give him a fair shake'.
Or something like that. As I say, I could be entirely mis-conflating-membering him with someone else ERV was talking about, as I mixed half you fuckers up with each other for a first couple of years I hung around here.
I always thought his presentation and contradictions were a product of him running some 'experiment' which was obvious and clumsy and only served to make him a appear a bad actor.
FT has basically said no, he doesn't trust him. On one view of how this place operates, maybe that the end of it.
That aside, my own gut reactions is to allow him to participate. But it's not anything. More than a gut reaction.
In patheos comments & on his blog, Damon makes sharp observations & calls SJWs on their bullshit. For some reason, at the Pit he chose to dick around with semantics, engage in solipsism, and goad folks into doxxing. That broke what I consider the unwritten Pit rule: no arguing in bad faith. But he hasn't been doing that here of late.
I don't see a problem in principle with Damion being one of The Five™, but I do agree with Strawkins over whether this was to be a somewhat formal selection process, or just a free-for-all.
Re D4M10N participating in the SargonPitStream: He knows the schism inside & out, and (interesting to me) might be the only person participating under their own name, and only 1 (or 1 of 2 if ERV is on, crossed fingers!) from the US, where FTB/Skepchick are based.
He can give more of an observer's perspective, and if it's not obvious then whenever needed others can point out his, uh, contrarian approach here.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I agree. Its nice that Sargon wants to talk to us and all, but no one needs to get their ego involved. Sargon is just a dude on the internet and anyone who wants to know more about the Pit can come here and ask.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:I'm on the side of not giving a rat's ass anymore about the whole damn thing.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I'm on the side of letting Damion participate.
Despite the weird hatred some have, he's a nice bloke who often fights the good fight elsewhere. And if he plans on shitting on the Pit, well, it's a talk with multiple participants and I'm quite confident they'll be able to rebut any bullshit.
Also, Damion was ballsy enough to go to a con wearing his Slymepit shirt. That should count for something :)
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Excellent.paddybrown wrote:http://s15.postimg.org/mnumvjvy3/ftb_click_logo.jpg
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Yep. You fucked up big-time here, Brive. It's a really shitty thing to do to privately invite someone who has repeatedly shown bad faith in his dealings with the Pit in public, when everyone else was discussed openly.JackSkeptic wrote:Sure but I don't care about all that. To me he is untrustworthy and a complete wanker. There is a good chance he will crap all over both the Sylympit and its opponents and even if he does not the risk itself is enough. He is a bad actor. But he is fully entitled to go but I still think he is a complete wanker.Brive1987 wrote:Damion is the uncle that can make for an awkard family gathering but he is a member of the Pit.
+ he spends more time discombobulating SJWs in the wild than many of us do
+ he has the privilage of being banned at more FtB blogs than pinchguest and John Greg combined
+ he happily and regularly places himself RL name first into the jaws of SZvan et al
The other thing I'd say is that he operates as a good mental foil if you want that. If you don't then yes it would be a pain in the ass. But it was largely his "prove its" that motivated me to go the extra mile in the Stollznow thing at JREF and to also not fall into a simple black and white opinion on Shermer.
Ok he treats the pit as a bit of a social experiment and feels that the outer edges of our SJ push back lacks nuance or style. Oh my god how patronising. But so the fuck what? We are big boys and girls here.
In short he meets three key requirements - diversity of opinion and approach, a pitter and active in the push back. If he wants a voice then fine. No silo'ed echo chambers here please.
Also Brive I know you and him collude so thanks for asking and encouraging him. Wonderful, thanks. Please try and be more open about it next time OK?
Strawks - can you participate? I'd love you to go on there?
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Steven Novella says the following:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... h-nazis-2/
Novella seems to think it was more than okay to ridicule Big Red:This is how I feel – our own beliefs are all fair game, whether religious, political, or social. We should not demand any litmus test for skeptical purity – that is not practical, reasonable, or healthy for any movement, let alone a minority movement like skepticism. Anyone who wants to participate should be welcome, in my opinion – even pseudoskeptics who don’t get it (but that doesn’t mean they get to speak at our meetings). However – everyone also has to recognize that your own beliefs are fair game for the criticism that is at the core of skeptical philosophy. That means that global warming dissidents, feminists, alternative medicine proponents, deists, free market zealots, anti-government conspiracy theorists, and communists all get to have their beliefs challenged, and have no reasonable expectations that their beliefs or their feelings will be spared.
Where I find the conflict within the skeptical movement to be most persistent and unresolvable is in the personal choices that people make with respect to balances between the dictates of free speech and intellectual integrity (a consistent application of skepticism with no sacred cows) and the desire for courtesy, creating a friendly and collegiate environment, and presenting skepticism in a positive light. Here we run the spectrum – at one end there are “concern trolls” who seem to advocate for an extreme of political correctness, and go out of their way to find offense. At the other end are “free speech nazis” (these are not my terms, BTW) who seem to go out of their way to be offensive, as if they are daring someone to ask for a modicum of courtesy so that they can cry “censorship” and get self-righteous about their freedom of speech.
So has he always been full of shit?The SGU is one particular context. On our podcast we are open about our opinions. We champion the use of skepticism and reason in all areas. We feel free to use satire, sarcasm, and even occasional mockery to put absurd beliefs into perspective. But we also choose not to gratuitously attack individuals – we focus mainly on beliefs. We reserve our personal attacks not for the average believer, but for the promoters – those who are engaging in the public conversation and have made themselves fair game. They have no expectation of courtesy, and there the demands of public debate and exchange of ideas outweigh those of courtesy. With an individual “rank-and-file” believer, the balance is different.
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... h-nazis-2/
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Damion is fine. He has his trolling moments, and he knows it. But he also has experience talking to an audience on streams. I'm not worried as long as people stick to what is true. Even if you take the alleged "worst" from the pit, as portrayed by our opponents, you quickly understand there is a second story or context that puts it into a pretty tame context. I'm not worried, as long as things are portrayed accurately and you don't fall into the trap of following the interpretation imposed by the social justice league.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I'm up for that. And don't forget to mark SlymeStock on your calendar. Fairyland is headlining.Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote: And if it works and we could have some kind of regular Pit hangout somewhere afterwards, even better!
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
This whole thing you guys have about Dawkins getting off Twitter...like these clowns need some excuse for going after him. He's the king of the hill, they're on the bottom of the hill picking up scraps. Whenever they can upset the pile, their portion of the scraps increase. If it isn't Twitter, it'll be something else. Should Richard retire to Oxford and rest of his laurels? It might be healthier if he did, but I don't think he's ready for that yet. Should he be chased there by a pack of fools? I think he should tweet away and the torpedoes be damned...yes, I love mixing metaphors. I do like the idea of him turning over his Twitter to Gervais, they won't know what hit them.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I'm opposed to Dawkins getting off Twitter. In fact he needs to go Ricky Gervaise now and then and call a cunt a cunt. He can save his politeness for people who will accept it in good faith.
Nobody is telling Gervaise to get off Twitter, or if they are, they're getting a swift fuck off.
Nobody is telling Gervaise to get off Twitter, or if they are, they're getting a swift fuck off.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Novella's full of shit. There are no 'free speech Nazis'. Free speech and nazism are incomparable. Saying people are deliberately causing offence just to cry censorship is blaming the victim. He's a hick who has some moderate claim to fame for pointing at other hicks and laughing. He's not a skeptic.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Incompatible.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
OK, having read some more, Brive says he didn't invite DayDays. I'll take him at his word, but that is really how it appeared to me (and it seems, some others): Brive posted a list that included DayDays as a fait accompli right out of the blue with no previous mention. However it happened, it wasn't discussed like everyone else's participation was.Lsuoma wrote:Yep. You fucked up big-time here, Brive. It's a really shitty thing to do to privately invite someone who has repeatedly shown bad faith in his dealings with the Pit in public, when everyone else was discussed openly.JackSkeptic wrote:
Sure but I don't care about all that. To me he is untrustworthy and a complete wanker. There is a good chance he will crap all over both the Sylympit and its opponents and even if he does not the risk itself is enough. He is a bad actor. But he is fully entitled to go but I still think he is a complete wanker.
Also Brive I know you and him collude so thanks for asking and encouraging him. Wonderful, thanks. Please try and be more open about it next time OK?
Strawks - can you participate? I'd love you to go on there?
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Mothra's Dentist wrote:Interesting update from Richard Dawkins regarding his stroke. At the end of it he mentions he was re-invited to speak, and apologized to, by conference organizers
https://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-u ... own-words/
This is why Richard Dawkins is so influential, & why his detractors like The Skank are no more than dogshit on the heel of his boot. He describes the stroke in a detached manner, succinctly & clearly from a medical perspective. I found it as fascinating as his description of echolocation. He then adds a very humble personal note -- not a drop of Henslian self-pity -- before musing (his 'appetite for wonder') about the amazing complexity of the human hand & what selection pressure led to it.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I think Brive was reasonably public.d4m10n wrote:Only if Steersman is indisposed.Brive1987 wrote:Rayshul is the normal you dopes.
A comic? An old timer? Come on.
Also.
Anyone want to replace the proposed wild-card Damion entry for 'cunt'?
But if Strawkins is avaliable I'd vote for him.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
What? I was not invited. My fee fees is hurt!
No... seriously, I am at best an annoying hanger on here.... and I come here for the yucks.
I am meh about the invite of Damion. He hardly ever posts here so I don't consider him part of the core group. Even so, what can he say that will hurt anyone? I agree with a prior post.... if there are only three pitters I can't see why Damion is one of them... he is not an example of what the pit "is" enough to be top three. Now... if it is a list of five I can see having a experienced hanger on like Damion.
But really, is someone going to represent the irreverence of this place? It is the discussion that started my coming here.... but it is the humor that keeps me coming back. The gifs and memes are spectacular.... I am sure I will not credit the right people, but Ape+Lust etc. are somehow heroic in my mind... haha.
No... seriously, I am at best an annoying hanger on here.... and I come here for the yucks.
I am meh about the invite of Damion. He hardly ever posts here so I don't consider him part of the core group. Even so, what can he say that will hurt anyone? I agree with a prior post.... if there are only three pitters I can't see why Damion is one of them... he is not an example of what the pit "is" enough to be top three. Now... if it is a list of five I can see having a experienced hanger on like Damion.
But really, is someone going to represent the irreverence of this place? It is the discussion that started my coming here.... but it is the humor that keeps me coming back. The gifs and memes are spectacular.... I am sure I will not credit the right people, but Ape+Lust etc. are somehow heroic in my mind... haha.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Jerry kindly published a paragraph on what's going on at the RationalWiki. And it's not pretty.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... /#comments
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... /#comments
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Novella is full of shit on the free speech nazis as well as the concern trolls.Shatterface wrote:Novella's full of shit. There are no 'free speech Nazis'. Free speech and nazism are incomparable. Saying people are deliberately causing offence just to cry censorship is blaming the victim. He's a hick who has some moderate claim to fame for pointing at other hicks and laughing. He's not a skeptic.
Concern Troll defined by Novella: "people who seem to advocate for an extreme of political correctness, and go out of their way to find offense"
Concern troll empirically observed: "this person disagrees with me on this thread, basically punctures the entire premise to be honest and I can't other impeach their argument, I would prefer they be gone." They disagree on a point and usually offer their reasons. They are not in general the ones arguing for an extreme form of political correctness as he claims, the SJW are definitely the ones doing that.
WRT free speech nazis, compare what Novella claims about "free speech nazis" to what feminists call "Tone Policing"
Novella: “free speech nazis” (these are not my terms, BTW) who seem to go out of their way to be offensive, as if they are daring someone to ask for a modicum of courtesy so that they can cry “censorship” and get self-righteous about their freedom of speech.
Geek Feminist Wiki: Tone Argument:
geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument
See also:"Just because you sound polite, doesn't mean your words aren't hurtful. Just because you sound acerbic, doesn't mean your words aren't kind." -- Comrade Squinky
"If you tread on someone's toes, and they tell you to get off, then get off their toes. Don't tell them to 'ask nicely'." -- Geeksophical
A tone argument is an argument used in discussions, sometimes by Concern trolls and sometimes as a Derailment, in which it is suggested that feminists would be more successful if only they expressed themselves in a more pleasant tone. This is also sometimes described as catching more flies with honey than with vinegar, a particular variant of the tone argument.
The tone argument is a form of derailment, or a red herring, because the tone of a statement is independent of the content of the statement in question, and calling attention to it distracts from the issue at hand. Drawing attention to the tone rather than content of a statement can allow other parties to avoid engaging with sound arguments presented in that statement, thus undermining the original party's attempt to communicate and effectively shutting them down.
Civility
One way in which the tone argument frequently manifests itself is as a call for civility. A way to gauge whether a request for civility is sincere or not is to ask whether the person asking for civility has more power along whatever axes are contextually relevant (see Intersectionality) than the person being called "incivil", less power, or equal power. Often, people who have the privilege of being listened to and taken seriously level accusations of "incivility" as a silencing tactic, and label as "incivil" any speech or behavior that questions their privilege. For example, some men label any feminist thought or speech as hostile or impolite; there is no way for anybody to question male power or privilege without being called rude or aggressive. Likewise, some white people label any critical discussion of race, particularly when initiated by people of color, as incivil.
When practised by a more privileged person, a request for civility may come across as both controlling and disingenuous. Asserting oneself as the one who gets to define civility can come across as a way to show dominance, as well as reflecting a conflict of interest: if you're the less-privileged person in the conversation, you may ask yourself: "Do they really think I was impolite, or do they just have an interest in not being criticized?"
For people who find themselves on the privileged side in any particular interaction, rather than asking your interlocutor to be more civil, you should question why they might be speaking in a way that seems angry or hostile to you, and attempt to ignore their tone and focus on the content of what they are saying
robot-hugs.com/tone-policing/
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
January 31--
You arent one of us.
February 12--ERV wrote:What neurology, or physician, or whatever conference did Steve go to where the speakers had to pass political litmus tests before they were allowed to speak about their research?
You are an 'academic neurologist', Steve? ...Have you ever spoken at a real scientific conference, invited by your academic peers, not one of your 'fans'?
Where did you learn to do this?
Youre not one of us, Steve.Really? wrote:Steven Novella says the following:
This is how I feel – our own beliefs are all fair game, whether religious, political, or social. We should not demand any litmus test for skeptical purity –
You arent one of us.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The problem is that the clocks would only lose synchronicity during the passage of the wave. And I imagine the effect would be tiny.Shatterface wrote:Don't shoot me if this is a stupid question, but as I understand it the LIGO experiment is set up to detect ripples in the 'space' bit of spacetime isn't it? I mean it detects differences in the <i>length</i> of the beams.
Is there a way of detecting the 'time' component independently, like clocks losing synchronicity?
Don't forget that gravitational time dilation (although due to static gravitational fields, rather than waves) has already been tested.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I never had a problem with Damion, until he started lying his ass of about how "the pit" from the start supported Ben Radford when the accusations against him first appeared - when in reality most pitters where cautionary supportive of Stollznow and condemned Radford. Then from there it seems it only got worse...deLurch wrote:Hmmm... New information for me. In that case, I will take D4m10n at his word.JackSkeptic wrote:That's good to here. In which case I wish you the best.d4m10n wrote:There is zero chance that I'll crap all over the Pit in a big audience livestream. But if you guys want to find someone else that's cool with me.
D4m10n didn't turn me off until (as other had said, and I saw with my own eyes) the doxx baiting episode, and then his weak ass claims even though he did not get anyone to bite on his bait. But if he isn't going to play games like that or talk out of both sides of his mouth, he does have a good knowledge of events, and the SJW crowd.
I dislike the idea of having Damion be part in a interview with pitters or whatever seems to be going on atm - basically because I just don't trust him, he seems to have something against the pit, and this sort of things just seem like an excellent opportunity to fuck things up.
Also, and this I actually think is more important - isn't this supposed to be some kind of "Saragon interviews the SlimePit" thing, more so than "Saragon interviews anti-SJW skeptics/atheists" (which he has already done a couple of times IIRC)? Shouldn't the people on this thing be some sort of "core pitters", rather than people who just know the schisms inside and out?
At least to me, Damion is more a A/S blogger who sometimes posts here, rather than a "core" pitter, and seems like a rather bad fit for the purpose of this thing? There's about 30-40 people, at least, which have posted here regularly and often that I'd rather listen to talk about the pit - from our shop-masters, to the people who've kept track of all of the happenings and SJW shenanigans, to the people who've been here from the start and remember "the old days", to the trolling gods, to the people who just post here for fun.... there's so many other pitters I'd rather see Saragon interview than Damion.
Then again... this is just my 2 cents, and hell, my opinion on this matter is barely wort even that much. Personally, tbfh, my main interest in this is: It'd be fun getting putting some voices to the people who's texts I've read for the last couple of years.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
From reddit, two threads (from the same person) about other editors having problems at RationalWiki, in this case of RW's coverage of Sarah Nyberg @srhbuttsAneris wrote:Jerry kindly published a paragraph on what's going on at the RationalWiki. And it's not pretty.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... /#comments
reddit.com/r/fstdt/comments/44a8ji/crankipedia_a_wiki_for_documenting_the_fringes/
reddit.com/r/fstdt/comments/44qkw8/rationalwiki_moaning_thread/
...
Gamergate "could not find anything against her"? No, Gamergate found postings by Nyberg in which she expresses a paedophilic attraction to an eight-year-old. You don't have to be a Gamergate supporter to see that her words are beyond the pale and deserving of condemnation, or at the very least questioning.
But yet, David Gerard is intent on preserving all of Ryulong's drivel. I've tried to make the article more balanced, as well as removing the flat-out incorrect statements (such as Rylong's BS claim that all of Nyberg's paedo postings were just her innocently copy-pasting other people's roleplays, which even Nyberg herself says is untrue) but Gerard has responded by reverting my edits, temporarily blocking me and smearing me as a Gamergate supporter. I made a userspace page (which is an acceptable place for personal opinion at RW) pointing out factual inaccuracies in the article, including statements that contradict each other and even contradict Nyberg's own testimony, and Gerard twice tried to get it deleted - thankfully another moderator, FuzzyCatPotato, restored it each time. I spoke to a member who recently left the site, and he told me that Gerard's actions in this case were partly responsible for driving him away.
It's not just me who has put up with this. A couple of other members expressed concern over how RW was whitewashing Sarah Nyberg, and
Gerard responded by making the Gamergate talkpages accessible only to staff members.
Initially, Gerard claimed that he was doing all of this because he was concerned about potential legal action from Nyberg if the site openly discussed the accusations of paedophilia. That kind of made sense, but since then it's become clear that he just doesn't want anybody criticising Sarah Nyberg in any capacity. I specifically avoided mentioning paedophilia in my userspace article, but that didn't stop him from trying to delete it. The fact that he's willing to retain claims that are demonstrably untrue, and silence anybody who corrects them, says it all.
At the end of the day, Ryulong and Gerard are indulging in classic fundie tactics: if someone disagrees with your dogma, smear them as part of the evil conspiracy. RationalWiki should, by all rights, be fighting against them rather than giving them a platform.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I was surprised this result was presented as a vindication of general relativity when I thought that was pretty much sown up. GPS uses general and special relativity so I thought the theory was universally accepted.dogen wrote:The problem is that the clocks would only lose synchronicity during the passage of the wave. And I imagine the effect would be tiny.Shatterface wrote:Don't shoot me if this is a stupid question, but as I understand it the LIGO experiment is set up to detect ripples in the 'space' bit of spacetime isn't it? I mean it detects differences in the <i>length</i> of the beams.
Is there a way of detecting the 'time' component independently, like clocks losing synchronicity?
Don't forget that gravitational time dilation (although due to static gravitational fields, rather than waves) has already been tested.
For me it's the fact we can now detect gravity waves - a technological achievement rather than a theoretical one - that's important: this has massive implications for astronomy, as important as the invention of the optical and radio telescopes. So far we are limited to seeing events that happen only after the universe was cool enough for photons to travel freely.
Plus it's more evidence of black holes. That's something else I'd rather taken for granted as I'd assumed we had already proven their existence by detecting X-Ray sources.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
How about Hannibal the Victor? He's probably ready to return to the internet and PZ did endorse his youtube channel last summer. :think:Shatterface wrote:Adam Lee would fit right in but he already has a bigger forum. I think CJ Werleman would fit but his plagiarism is too well known and they dropped Aviccena for that.Sunder wrote:The Hordelets might get grumpy if they ever realize that PZ probably does not have any of them in mind when he talks about adding new bloggers.
I really, really do not think it will happen. Even PZ knows and has been repeatedly told by (former?) friends like Chris Clarke that his Horde is a bunch of angry shits who reasonable people detest being around.
But I really don't know who PZ could be thinking of as a potential blogger. He's clearly specificied that he's looking for SJWs, and not, for instance, scientists. Or engineers. Or experts of any kind. So I guess he must be aware that anyone who ever came to FTB for the science is long gone and the only new readers he could ever hope to pull in who would be compatible with his current angry slacktivist readership is more angry slacktivists.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=286&hilit=tamerlan ... how#p81960JackSkeptic wrote:That's a complete lie. I was stuck with him and had no authority to remove him or anyone else or add anyone else, it was too late as we'd run out of time. We had hours to go and nothing to show for it. I ended up drafting the first item at 4am in the morning as Tim had bailed out at the last minute and I was left holding the baby. I then had a several three hour voice chats with Wonderist when he did his submission. I ended up hating the whole process. After that the decision to add people was democratic. As it proved, too many cooks spoil the broth.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: For the A/S Dialog, Jack went with Wonderist over me. Just sayin'.
I'm fucked if I'll let that happen to me again.
Jack, you put out an open request for input on the A/S Dialog. I made some suggestions & offered to participate, and was immediately accused by you of being a trojan horse. (Note: I was briefly registered as 'tamerlane' back then.) That was one of my first experiences with the Pit, and it nearly put me off.
The whole A/S dialog thing was a frustrating clusterfuck from the get-go. Now I see the same thing happening with this Sargon chat, with everyone getting all pissy. I offered to round out the Sargon panel, but I wouldn't be able to speak to the beginning over at ERV. I'm still happy to fill in if needed, as I'm comfortable with public speaking, but would just as readily pass and let more knowledgable folks tackle the job.
Just pick an handful of people already and let it roll. This isn't like it's our big break and we're up for the part of Scarlett O'Hara. Every time the Pit tries to get above its raisin', things goes awry and we fight like wet, feral cats trapped in a barrel going over Niagara Falls.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Nice work in getting the 'issues' as regards Rationalwiki out to a wider audience.Aneris wrote:Jerry kindly published a paragraph on what's going on at the RationalWiki. And it's not pretty.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... /#comments
It's arse, isn't it. I fear the folks at Ratwiki spent far too long gazing into the Conservapedia abyss...
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Goddamnit, Matt, don't make me fanboy you. But yeah, straight from the horse's mouth. Have fun with it, Brive, Rayshul and co.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:viewtopic.php?f=29&t=286&hilit=tamerlan ... how#p81960JackSkeptic wrote:That's a complete lie. I was stuck with him and had no authority to remove him or anyone else or add anyone else, it was too late as we'd run out of time. We had hours to go and nothing to show for it. I ended up drafting the first item at 4am in the morning as Tim had bailed out at the last minute and I was left holding the baby. I then had a several three hour voice chats with Wonderist when he did his submission. I ended up hating the whole process. After that the decision to add people was democratic. As it proved, too many cooks spoil the broth.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: For the A/S Dialog, Jack went with Wonderist over me. Just sayin'.
I'm fucked if I'll let that happen to me again.
Jack, you put out an open request for input on the A/S Dialog. I made some suggestions & offered to participate, and was immediately accused by you of being a trojan horse. (Note: I was briefly registered as 'tamerlane' back then.) That was one of my first experiences with the Pit, and it nearly put me off.
The whole A/S dialog thing was a frustrating clusterfuck from the get-go. Now I see the same thing happening with this Sargon chat, with everyone getting all pissy. I offered to round out the Sargon panel, but I wouldn't be able to speak to the beginning over at ERV. I'm still happy to fill in if needed, as I'm comfortable with public speaking, but would just as readily pass and let more knowledgable folks tackle the job.
Just pick an handful of people already and let it roll. This isn't like it's our big break and we're up for the part of Scarlett O'Hara. Every time the Pit tries to get above its raisin', things goes awry and we fight like wet, feral cats trapped in a barrel going over Niagara Falls.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Dawkins sounds like he's cheered by the re-invitation, so I'm glad they did it. Now, even if his health allows, I think he should pass.
They've already hosted a character assassin without handwringing about it. Let him be their legacy statement on civility and inclusion... and the appropriateness of fetishizing squid fucking in their venue.
http://imgur.com/dwhZzrA.jpg
They've already hosted a character assassin without handwringing about it. Let him be their legacy statement on civility and inclusion... and the appropriateness of fetishizing squid fucking in their venue.
http://imgur.com/dwhZzrA.jpg
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
paddybrown wrote:http://s15.postimg.org/mnumvjvy3/ftb_click_logo.jpg
:clap:
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Jenny McDermott?free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Hannibal the Victor? He's probably ready to return to the internet and PZ did endorse his youtube channel last summer. :think:
Bewildered Ape?
Laughing Witch?
That's about the level they should be aiming for.
However, I suspect even Laden would turn them down these days.
I would love to see a Nerd of Redhead blog but I don't think he has it in him.
Seriously though, what exactly is an SJW blog?
Isn't it just whiny complaints from a holier-than-thou self righteous prick whose become highly offended because he/she has found out that someone, somewhere, has a different opinion?
You can get all that by reading
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I am with you. Dawkins will be hard to replace. But his health takes priority. The advice we dished out to Hensley & Elyse does not change when it comes to Dawkins well being.Tigzy wrote:Still, I'm actually gonna side with the SJW contingent for once, and recommend he either stays off Twitter (where most of this shit seems to happen) or stay on it but not goad the feminist/SJW contingent. That's not victim blaming in my book; just a recommendation that he exercise some responsibility for him own health, as I - and others - have maintained likewise with regard to Hensley and Elyse. Let's face it, it's no use appealing to the SJW to lay off the old dude, as they won't. He's not well, and if he finds the opprobrium he gets from certain factions of the atheist/skeptic sphere too upsetting, then I hope he has the nous to understand that it's probably time to bow out of these social media controversies. Not that I don't enjoy his ability to wind up the bliss ninnies - it's a fucking hoot - but the dude has to think of his health.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
For fucks sake Jack you have a clenched bone in place don't you? I was shouting out for interested parties. Damion expressed an interest direct to me. I came on the Pit and presented the wild card and was happy an experienced streamer and knowledgable rift person had put up their hand.JackSkeptic wrote:Yeh you're right, I overstated it. One thing I learned from the Nugent process was how open and transparent people were. Brive included for that matter.KiwiInOz wrote:I call bollocks on political maneuvering. There have been a couple of fan boys and a some cat herders trying to get a quorum for a show. That is all.JackSkeptic wrote:snip
There is too much behind the scenes political manoeuvring going on here and it stinks.
snip
And I was done with the clusterfuck approach. It was put up or shutup time.
Are you 'like this' in general? Are you OK?
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Huffington Post Tumblr calls this "The Perfect Response To Science’s Sexist Approach To Women’s Bodies"
huffingtonpost.tumblr.com/post/138698975541/the-perfect-response-to-sciences-sexist-approach
Poet is a writer for Bustle, may never actually have had a science course.
[youtube]BRQYievlR2c[/youtube]
She doesn't like that other people may be criticizing her poem.
huffingtonpost.tumblr.com/post/138698975541/the-perfect-response-to-sciences-sexist-approach
Poet is a writer for Bustle, may never actually have had a science course.
[youtube]BRQYievlR2c[/youtube]
She doesn't like that other people may be criticizing her poem.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Guest_0048cc29 wrote:Huffington Post Tumblr calls this "The Perfect Response To Science’s Sexist Approach To Women’s Bodies"
huffingtonpost.tumblr.com/post/138698975541/the-perfect-response-to-sciences-sexist-approach
Poet is a writer for Bustle, may never actually have had a science course.
[youtube]BRQYievlR2c[/youtube]
She doesn't like that other people may be criticizing her poem.
6/10 if sleeping or in some other state that renders her unable to screech and gulp breath.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
So what, she sounds like she's every bit as good a science writer as science journalist Rebecca Watson.Poet is a writer for Bustle, may never actually have had a science course.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Yes I turned you down for the reasons you stated. That was well after the process started and you had said several things I found highly suspicious. Get over it, it was three years ago. I did not know you then at all and any decision I made was not in isolation.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:viewtopic.php?f=29&t=286&hilit=tamerlan ... how#p81960JackSkeptic wrote:That's a complete lie. I was stuck with him and had no authority to remove him or anyone else or add anyone else, it was too late as we'd run out of time. We had hours to go and nothing to show for it. I ended up drafting the first item at 4am in the morning as Tim had bailed out at the last minute and I was left holding the baby. I then had a several three hour voice chats with Wonderist when he did his submission. I ended up hating the whole process. After that the decision to add people was democratic. As it proved, too many cooks spoil the broth.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: For the A/S Dialog, Jack went with Wonderist over me. Just sayin'.
I'm fucked if I'll let that happen to me again.
Jack, you put out an open request for input on the A/S Dialog. I made some suggestions & offered to participate, and was immediately accused by you of being a trojan horse. (Note: I was briefly registered as 'tamerlane' back then.) That was one of my first experiences with the Pit, and it nearly put me off.
The whole A/S dialog thing was a frustrating clusterfuck from the get-go. Now I see the same thing happening with this Sargon chat, with everyone getting all pissy. I offered to round out the Sargon panel, but I wouldn't be able to speak to the beginning over at ERV. I'm still happy to fill in if needed, as I'm comfortable with public speaking, but would just as readily pass and let more knowledgable folks tackle the job.
Just pick an handful of people already and let it roll. This isn't like it's our big break and we're up for the part of Scarlett O'Hara. Every time the Pit tries to get above its raisin', things goes awry and we fight like wet, feral cats trapped in a barrel going over Niagara Falls.
But what does that have to do with your original comment? Sod all.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I actually found this to be pretty entertaining. "Science" is woefully unequipped at this time to explain sex and sexuality. I remember that, not long ago, I read that women don't ejaculate during sex and are actually urinating if they "squirt". My wife produces a veritable fire hose on occasion (when everything is going well in the bedroom). We thought something was wrong with her... haha. "Hey science! Stop making claims about shit you don't understand!!!!"Guest_0048cc29 wrote:Huffington Post Tumblr calls this "The Perfect Response To Science’s Sexist Approach To Women’s Bodies"
huffingtonpost.tumblr.com/post/138698975541/the-perfect-response-to-sciences-sexist-approach
Poet is a writer for Bustle, may never actually have had a science course.
[youtube]BRQYievlR2c[/youtube]
She doesn't like that other people may be criticizing her poem.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
As I know you I accept you did it with the best intentions but on the face of it it looked bad. At least to me. Maybe I'm a cynical sod, I don't know.Brive1987 wrote:For fucks sake Jack you have a clenched bone in place don't you? I was shouting out for interested parties. Damion expressed an interest direct to me. I came on the Pit and presented the wild card and was happy an experienced streamer and knowledgable rift person had put up their hand.JackSkeptic wrote:Yeh you're right, I overstated it. One thing I learned from the Nugent process was how open and transparent people were. Brive included for that matter.KiwiInOz wrote:
I call bollocks on political maneuvering. There have been a couple of fan boys and a some cat herders trying to get a quorum for a show. That is all.
And I was done with the clusterfuck approach. It was put up or shutup time.
Are you 'like this' in general? Are you OK?
Anyway what's done is done and Damion and you have explained things so as far as I am concerned thanks for that and I'm a happy bunny now.
I wish you all the best and thanks for doing it too.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
T minus 1 hour? Is this thing on?
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I'm gonna miss the livestream because I didn't know what time it was until today and I'd already made plans to go see Deadpool. Sorry, priorities.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Kirsti Winters.Dick Strawkins wrote:Jenny McDermott?free thoughtpolice wrote: How about Hannibal the Victor? He's probably ready to return to the internet and PZ did endorse his youtube channel last summer. :think:
Bewildered Ape?
Laughing Witch?
That's about the level they should be aiming for.
However, I suspect even Laden would turn them down these days.
I would love to see a Nerd of Redhead blog but I don't think he has it in him.
Seriously though, what exactly is an SJW blog?
Isn't it just whiny complaints from a holier-than-thou self righteous prick whose become highly offended because he/she has found out that someone, somewhere, has a different opinion?
You can get all that by readingthe comments ofpharyngula
One way or another, her 'work' deserves more attention, scrutiny and ridicule.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
John D
I don't think many "scientists" are quoting Freud, or doing so and leaving it at that, although to be honest, more and more I think 4th gen feminism is best and most concisely explained fascism mediated by penis envy.I actually found this to be pretty entertaining. "Science" is woefully unequipped at this time to explain sex and sexuality. I remember that, not long ago, I read that women don't ejaculate during sex and are actually urinating if they "squirt". My wife produces a veritable fire hose on occasion (when everything is going well in the bedroom). We thought something was wrong with her... haha. "Hey science! Stop making claims about shit you don't understand!!!!"
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Lsuoma PMed Sargon last Monday to say it is off.John D wrote:T minus 1 hour? Is this thing on?
Brieve hopping in at the last minute to manage matters is a surprise. We don't know if Sargon received the message from Lsuoma or not. Not having a direct line of communication with Sargon makes coordination a bit of a mystery. Last week, Sargon was ready to go, but a couple of the 'pitters with kids pulled out because they were not sure if it was going to go on or not. Plus Lsuoma had network issues. I think we should be prepared in either case.
If we shoot for round 3, he need to have a single person designated from the Pit coordinate. This on again, off again bullshit does not make life easy for anyone involved. I wouldn't be surprised if Sargon has opted to pull out all together, and is not up for trying again. Coordination problems all the way around across the board.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
No we're on lurch my man we are ON and ready to go
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
We're on. I just PMed Sargon and all the other guests (Brive, rayshul, Damion). Sargon should send us the link to the hangout via PM, as he said he would.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK.rayshul wrote:No we're on lurch my man we are ON and ready to go
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Where the hell did my bottle opener go?Really? wrote:I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK.rayshul wrote:No we're on lurch my man we are ON and ready to go
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Vicky Caramel wrote:
The mutant offspring of Dr. Richard Carrier Phd and a steerswoman!
Shudder :shifty: No! Not the feminist doctor! :oKirsti Winters.
One way or another, her 'work' deserves more attention, scrutiny and ridicule.
The mutant offspring of Dr. Richard Carrier Phd and a steerswoman!
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
The only thing possible to think at this point, necrophilia.Really? wrote:I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK.rayshul wrote:No we're on lurch my man we are ON and ready to go
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I get the impression that out there in the wild, FTBs is pretty much irrelevant, the juvenile SJWs I encounter have never heard of Atheism Plus or any of the people associated with it. Youtube is where it's at -- when they are talking about the Atheist community, they are thinking of Steve Shives, JJTalks, and the the drama that swirls around them. I have been trying to work out who their leaders are... I think they view Winters as the intellectual artillery.free thoughtpolice wrote:Vicky Caramel wrote:Shudder :shifty: No! Not the feminist doctor! :oKirsti Winters.
One way or another, her 'work' deserves more attention, scrutiny and ridicule.
The mutant offspring of Dr. Richard Carrier Phd and a steerswoman!
I guess I do to as most of the others are too busy accusing each other of sexual harassment to ever talk about atheism or feminism.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Indeed, Ryulong is an entire story for itself. He is a stereotypical and internet famous SJW who was even too much for some RWikians, but he enjoyed protection from the powers-that-be, such as David Gerard (screen name). He was banned for his antics, which is super rare. But only begrudgingly. I guess if they could invite him back, they'd do in heartbeat. Still many from this group are active and they virtually only bother with the Social Justice related topics.Guest_0048cc29 wrote:From reddit, two threads (from the same person) about other editors having problems at RationalWiki, in this case of RW's coverage of Sarah Nyberg @srhbuttsAneris wrote:Jerry kindly published a paragraph on what's going on at the RationalWiki. And it's not pretty.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... /#comments
reddit.com/r/fstdt/comments/44a8ji/crankipedia_a_wiki_for_documenting_the_fringes/
reddit.com/r/fstdt/comments/44qkw8/rationalwiki_moaning_thread/
...
Gamergate "could not find anything against her"? No, Gamergate found postings by Nyberg in which she expresses a paedophilic attraction to an eight-year-old. You don't have to be a Gamergate supporter to see that her words are beyond the pale and deserving of condemnation, or at the very least questioning.
But yet, David Gerard is intent on preserving all of Ryulong's drivel. I've tried to make the article more balanced, as well as removing the flat-out incorrect statements (such as Rylong's BS claim that all of Nyberg's paedo postings were just her innocently copy-pasting other people's roleplays, which even Nyberg herself says is untrue) but Gerard has responded by reverting my edits, temporarily blocking me and smearing me as a Gamergate supporter. I made a userspace page (which is an acceptable place for personal opinion at RW) pointing out factual inaccuracies in the article, including statements that contradict each other and even contradict Nyberg's own testimony, and Gerard twice tried to get it deleted - thankfully another moderator, FuzzyCatPotato, restored it each time. I spoke to a member who recently left the site, and he told me that Gerard's actions in this case were partly responsible for driving him away.
It's not just me who has put up with this. A couple of other members expressed concern over how RW was whitewashing Sarah Nyberg, and
Gerard responded by making the Gamergate talkpages accessible only to staff members.
Initially, Gerard claimed that he was doing all of this because he was concerned about potential legal action from Nyberg if the site openly discussed the accusations of paedophilia. That kind of made sense, but since then it's become clear that he just doesn't want anybody criticising Sarah Nyberg in any capacity. I specifically avoided mentioning paedophilia in my userspace article, but that didn't stop him from trying to delete it. The fact that he's willing to retain claims that are demonstrably untrue, and silence anybody who corrects them, says it all.
At the end of the day, Ryulong and Gerard are indulging in classic fundie tactics: if someone disagrees with your dogma, smear them as part of the evil conspiracy. RationalWiki should, by all rights, be fighting against them rather than giving them a platform.
I have no problem when editors have their focus, which is quite normal, but they aren't approaching things to add what is missing and correct what is false. Instead, they are only interested in furthering a narrative and they do that in such a hamfisted way that makes PZ Myers look nuanced in comparision. They are social justice warriorism in its most essential form.
They remove everything that could “give ammo to the wrong side” (actual paraphrased statement), even if truthful and even — bizarrely — when it documents sincerely held beliefs of social justice warrior saints themselves. Rule of thumb: if anyone edits who is not their tribe, it must be somehow against their agenda, and must be removed. It's generally a major hassle to document anything. As typical for social justice warriors, even articles supposed to be about them and their ideas turn into hit pices of someone else. Also notable, the context is otherwise very narrow. The SJW wanted that Anita Sarkeesian's article is only about her harassment, not about her views. This was another kerfuffle to even have her “prejudice plus power” mentioned, despite that an article exists on this, and despite that she herself sincerely believes this.
On the flipside, articles on enemies of social justice write themselves and need no sources. The contexts is always wide and they are very creative about how to shoehorn terms and groups into the article they despise. The articles also tend to employ the tactics we are all familiar with from the Social Justice League, by having something “rub off”. Also the opposite is true when it comes to what people say about themselves. Where social justice warriors are believed totally without question, nothing someone does and says counts when the social justice warriors don't like the person. When Sarah Nyberg says she was an edgelord, and not a paedo-nazi, they believe this (and then still keep this off the RationalWiki), but when (say) Sargon of Akkad says he thinks he's liberal and progressive, it's doubted and he's seen as a “reactionary”.
In short, the RationalWiki is basically Stephonekee Szwan style of argumentation in wiki form. Deny everything. Nitpick. Stall. Don't draw conclusions when they lead into an undesired direction. Remove information. Question sources. Also deny that this discussion even takes place. Gaslight. And so on. But when the direction is liked: let it flow freely. Bullshit, invent, fabulatem, smear, invent words and definitions, non-sequitur, etc. — the well known double standards that are in equal measures comical and maddening.
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads
I've got a beer, 20 fags and a hard-on.
I'm set.
I'm set.
Re: The Refuge of the Toads
Livestream link for those watching (not talking)