The Refuge of the Toads

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Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7681

Post by Billie from Ockham »

feathers wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Here's one for the shoopers
download/file.php?id=3703.jpg
At first sight, I thought it already had been shopped. That is an uncanny likeness with Lord Peez.
And the face looks like his, too. :rimshot:

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7682

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

The baby Triceratops is badly executed though.








I mean, death by crushing?!?

Dave
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7683

Post by Dave »

John D wrote:Wow! One fine example by one of my fellow Michiganders. Dood's house has no power because of a storm. He sets up a generator and he PUTS IT IN HIS BASEMENT. Entire family is now dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-n ... 7145-story
Call me an asshole, but Im thinking this guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award.

Snapfingers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7684

Post by Snapfingers »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Here's one for the shoopers
firenza02_zpsp4dmyoac.jpg
'

The little sign says "IN THIS TEMPLE
AS IN THE HEARTS OF THE PEOPLE
FOR WHOM HE SAVED THE ATHEIST
MOVEMENT THE MEMORY OF PZ MYERS
IS ENSHRINED FOREVER"

John D
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7685

Post by John D »

Dave wrote:
John D wrote:Wow! One fine example by one of my fellow Michiganders. Dood's house has no power because of a storm. He sets up a generator and he PUTS IT IN HIS BASEMENT. Entire family is now dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-n ... 7145-story
Call me an asshole, but Im thinking this guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award.
Yeah...I immediately thought this guy wanted to kill his family... but then I remembered how stupid people can be about certain topics. I shared this story with my wife and she told me she had no idea a generator made carbon monoxide! I am like "WTF! It has a gasoline engine on it!" and she says... "Yeah, but I thought generators made electricity."

Haha. It is hard being an engineer in a world full of Humanities majors.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7686

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Skep tickle wrote: IMO voting rights should rarely if ever be withheld or revoked, and incarceration should not be one of those times, at least for federal & state elections.

[....]

Also, IMO the legal rights withheld should always be the minimum necessary to achieve punishment, restitution, & rehabilitation. Incarceration, fines, probation, sure. But what does withholding voting rights accomplish? (rhetorical)
I strongly disagree. Felons have reneged on the Hobbesian social contract; they cannot expect to receive the benefits thereof, if they fail to meet the obligations. We can & do take away felons' fundamental rights of life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; loss of the franchise is minimal in comparison.

The only right a felon should be afforded is the only one expressly granted to felons in the US Constitution: protection from cruel & unusual punishment.

Felony disenfranchisement has always seemed so unfair to me, in part because it seems like a way of keeping people most affected by unfair laws (like "the drug war") from having a say.

1) If you believe a law to be unfair, the proper remedy is to repeal it. Circumventing the law is vigilantism. Circumventing one law by enacting another is byzantine at best, lunacy at worst;

2) I remain unpersuaded that drug laws in the US are inherently unfair. The Sentencing Project, to which you link, is a notorious peddler of distortions, half-truths, and specious statistics.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7687

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Really? wrote: Are you sure the Rubiobot can defeat its programming? Rubio seems like the human version of deceptive moderate Republican talking points. He will need a new CPU and preprogrammed RAM if he will be able to say anything else. I think the debates would resemble those episodes of Jeopardy! where the humans challenged the IBM computer.
Rubio's chances evaporated the moment in that debate when he got stuck in a feedback loop.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7688

Post by Tigzy »

Spike13 wrote:Re US politics:

This is the best we have on offer...

We are sooo fucked.

At this point a "meh" four years would be the best I could hope for.


How does Trump feel about encryption?
He wants to build a wall to keep 'em out, even though he reckons the ancient ones were pretty cool, what with building all those pyramids and shit.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7689

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

welch wrote: And as many of the folks who know have pointed out, had the county been competently managing their devices, this wouldn't be an issue. Good MDM systems give you the backdoor the FBI wants already. It's part of the API built into iOS.
This does feel shutting the barn door after the horse got out. Fact is, when Camel Jockey there and his new bride, Camel Face, came through customs, all sorts of alarms and bells and flashing lights should've gone off. Our front-line defenses against terrorists entering the country are entirely porous.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7690

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Here's one for the shoopers
firenza02_zpsp4dmyoac.jpg
OMG, another Peez-Regreta cross.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7691

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

windy wrote:
feathers wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:In contrast, my date was wearing stretch tights.
That quite unusual for a horse, Matt. A horsecloth, perhaps, but tights?
http://www.lymed.fi/wp-content/uploads/ ... Patjas.jpg
Hawt.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7692

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:2) I remain unpersuaded that drug laws in the US are inherently unfair. The Sentencing Project, to which you link, is a notorious peddler of distortions, half-truths, and specious statistics.
Ignoring your ad hominem (as even a biased source can get some things correct), I agree that US drug laws are not "unfair" in the way that most people whine about. The penalties for selling crack vs powdered cocaine are the same (in theory and as written) for all people, regardless of race, for example. The real problem is the mis-match between the penalties for these crimes and the effects on others. The data that people cite to justify the higher penalties for crack over powdered are not corrected for the differences between the people using these two forms of cocaine. Yes, the typical person who uses crack is far more fucked up by the experience than the typical person who uses powdered, but if the same person were to use both drugs, the difference in effects would be much less. Therefore, the penalties for the two should be more similar than they are ... assuming that you wish to put people in jail for any of this.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7693

Post by Billie from Ockham »

By the way, Matt, while I often agree that things aren't as racist in the US as many people claim, if you would toss in a real example every now and then (e.g., gerrymandered congressional districts or the real motivation for punishing crack more than powdered), it would make your other arguments much more convincing to me. It has appeared (to me) in the past that you are unwilling to admit that some Americans with power (e.g., cops or legislators) really are racist and do things because they are racist. Just a few examples of where you see racism at work would go a long way.

And, yes, I do recognize that my request goes against my previous cheap shot about ad hominems.

NoGodsEver
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7694

Post by NoGodsEver »

Dave wrote:
John D wrote:Wow! One fine example by one of my fellow Michiganders. Dood's house has no power because of a storm. He sets up a generator and he PUTS IT IN HIS BASEMENT. Entire family is now dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-n ... 7145-story
Call me an asshole, but Im thinking this guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award.
He had already reproduced, so he's not really eligible, IMO, but he did take out his progeny too, so I guess in the end he aced it.

NoGodsEver
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7695

Post by NoGodsEver »

Dave wrote:
John D wrote:Wow! One fine example by one of my fellow Michiganders. Dood's house has no power because of a storm. He sets up a generator and he PUTS IT IN HIS BASEMENT. Entire family is now dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-n ... 7145-story
Call me an asshole, but Im thinking this guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award.
FTFA: "Family and friends say leonard was a very smart and handy guy."

You don't say.

John Greg
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7696

Post by John Greg »

Matt C. said:
Felons have reneged on the Hobbesian social contract; they cannot expect to receive the benefits thereof, if they fail to meet the obligations.
I understand your sentminent, but the problem is that a lot of felons are felons not because they really broke the Hobbesian social contract in any even slightly meaningful way, but because the law makers broke the Hobbesian social contract (so to speak), by creating draconian, bigoted, and woefully misguided anti-society laws that are specifically designed to control society solely to the benefit of the ruling class and the oligarchs/plutocrats -- which is especially true when one reviews the simple fact that people with very large amounts of money have a vastly greater chance of getting off scott-free, or with greatly, greatly diminished punishment, for almost all crimes on the books. So that when really wealthy people really break the Hobbesian social contract, they generally get away with it, and when some broke and powerless nobody just dips a quiet toe in some broken Hobbesian social contract backwater (so to speak), off to jail and social shunning they go.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7697

Post by comhcinc »

Catching up on youtube this morning. This gave me a a chuckle.

[youtube]Z78_rAg4Ldg[/youtube]

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7698

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Let's all be friends.
0_5ab34_20242675_XXL.jpg
(187.84 KiB) Downloaded 327 times

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7699

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Combined reply via phone to Shatterface & The Gregster:

1) It's not an ad hom to call a source unreliable. I could be accused of a genetic fallacy for rejecting info from that source solely because it came from that source;

2) I do acknowledge that racists exist, and that some abuses of power are due to racism. I largely reject , based on solid evidence, that "Systemic Racism" exists;

3) Drug arrest stats typically cited are especially specious. The crack vs. powdered disparity may effectively disproportionatly affect PoCs; it is, however, not inherently racist;

4) Comparing drug use rates by demographic to drug arrests is specious. For most drug arrests are not for possesion , rather for distribution. Most busts are made on the street , where primarily PoC gang members are the perps;

5) If you believe drug laws are unjust, repeal them. Don't repeal disenfranchisement laws for all felons, just because you feel some felions shouodnt be felins in the furst place

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7700

Post by Lsuoma »

As George Carlin would have said, "Why, these fuckin' pussies!".

John Greg
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7701

Post by John Greg »

Thanks for the reply, Matt. But I think my point stands.

And, in all due respect, your comment "If you believe drug laws are unjust, repeal them" is, well, to be kind, rather specious. I mean, who dy'a think I am? The Canadian government? More power to me! Old white CisHet Shitlord that I be!

For the record, I, like many millions of Canadians before me, have been working for several decades trying to have ridiculous, outdated, anti-poor/pro-power, draconian Canadian drug laws repealed, and even though we've made some small headway in the last 40 years, we are certainly not there yet -- and probably won't be for a long time yet. There is still far too much wealth, power, and social control to be gained by the plutocrats by maintaining the current draconian system.

In my opinion.

I have a story to tell. In the mid 1960s, my dad, who is an actual old white cishet privileged shitlord, gathered together a few of his wealthy and powerful pals, walked into one the the better hotel lobbies in Toronto, and proceeded to light up joints in the middle of a busy day. Their point was to highlight and protest what had been a recent arrest of a non-wealthy, non-powerul Toronto youth who, for less than an ounce of marijuana received, and eventually served, a ten year maximum security prison sentence. My dad and his pals's argument was that they, being wealthy, powerful folk, would be ignored. And they were, even though their action was, by themselves, filmed and eventually broadcast -- or at least reported in the printed press; I cannot remember at this late date whether the stunt actually made it to CBC TV broadcast or not; Dad could have arranged and insisted on it himself, but I cannae recall.

So I suppose that that, and too many other similar tales across our fair land, colours my opinion about not only drug laws, but the legal system in general.

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7702

Post by comhcinc »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
5) If you believe drug laws are unjust, repeal them. Don't repeal disenfranchisement laws for all felons, just because you feel some felons shouldn't be felons in the first place
Disenfranchisement laws should just be repealed. You can't tell me that a crime I commited 16 years ago, and served my time for, and paid a fine for as well, should still be directly affecting me. And it is. I am barred for living a lot of places. I have literally had people rescind jobs after they find out I have a felony. Most of the time I just don't get an answer. I haven't gotten a job that does background checks in 9 years.

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7703

Post by Kirbmarc »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Skep tickle wrote: IMO voting rights should rarely if ever be withheld or revoked, and incarceration should not be one of those times, at least for federal & state elections.

[....]

Also, IMO the legal rights withheld should always be the minimum necessary to achieve punishment, restitution, & rehabilitation. Incarceration, fines, probation, sure. But what does withholding voting rights accomplish? (rhetorical)
I strongly disagree. Felons have reneged on the Hobbesian social contract; they cannot expect to receive the benefits thereof, if they fail to meet the obligations. We can & do take away felons' fundamental rights of life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; loss of the franchise is minimal in comparison.
Arguing from a Hobbesian point of view isn't the best way to make a point about the largely Lockeian liberal democracies of today.
The only right a felon should be afforded is the only one expressly granted to felons in the US Constitution: protection from cruel & unusual punishment.
I'm guessing you don't believe in rehabilitation of felons, or in the principle of paying back the harm done to society and being reintegrated in the social contract.
Victor Hugo wrote:"A benevolent malefactor, merciful, gentle, helpful, clement, a convict, returning good for evil, giving back pardon for hatred, preferring pity to vengeance, preferring to ruin himself rather than to ruin his enemy, saving him who had smitten him, kneeling on the heights of virtue, more nearly akin to an angel than to a man. Javert Cavanaugh was constrained to admit to himself that this monster existed.

Things could not go on in this manner.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7704

Post by Billie from Ockham »

The only right a felon should be afforded is the only one expressly granted to felons in the US Constitution: protection from cruel & unusual punishment.
Why does this kick in (for you) at the level of felonies? Is there a reason that we shouldn't deny, for example, the right to free speech, security in papers and effects, voting, etc., to anyone who has ever been found guilty of, say, a moving violation?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7705

Post by Bhurzum »

[youtube]I0tE6T-ecmg[/youtube]

Dave
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7706

Post by Dave »

comhcinc wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
5) If you believe drug laws are unjust, repeal them. Don't repeal disenfranchisement laws for all felons, just because you feel some felons shouldn't be felons in the first place
Disenfranchisement laws should just be repealed. You can't tell me that a crime I commited 16 years ago, and served my time for, and paid a fine for as well, should still be directly affecting me. And it is. I am barred for living a lot of places. I have literally had people rescind jobs after they find out I have a felony. Most of the time I just don't get an answer. I haven't gotten a job that does background checks in 9 years.
I can understand an argument that disenfranchisement DURING incarceration is a sensible measure, Im not sure I agree with it, but I can understand it. I completely fail to understand the logic behind disenfranchisement post-sentence.

On the jobs front, it is a bit more complicated. Although I understand and may even sympathize with the plight it puts you in, I have my shareholders and insurance companies to answer to. Not doing background checks, or ignoring their results will drive up my insurance rates. As I am in a regulated industry, background checks on prospective hires is also required by the federal agencies that oversee my company. They can tell my clients they are prohibitied from doing business with me and I will go out of business. Being able to re-integrate former felons into the workforce is necessary and a benefit to society, but more than the laws are stacked against it.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7707

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

If someone has paid their debt to society, I think they should be given back their full rights. Maybe if they are inherently criminal, these rights will be taken away again when they offend again. But in the mean time, there's no need to keep their rights away.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7708

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Dave wrote:I can understand an argument that disenfranchisement DURING incarceration is a sensible measure, Im not sure I agree with it, but I can understand it. I completely fail to understand the logic behind disenfranchisement post-sentence.
There are some crimes for which there really is no fix (e.g., pedophilia); when you let them out, you are taking an above-chance risk, period. But that's more of an argument for not letting someone out. My take on disenfranchisement is pretty simple and comes from what I learned of US history in elementary school: if the person is subject to paying taxes, then they get to vote. (Conversely, any citizen who is not allowed to vote should not have to pay taxes.) The only exception that I would consider logical (which goes back to my opening) is when the person was convicted of misconduct related to an election (and, maybe, taxes). But even then, if they pay taxes, I'd let them vote because that's how you have say in how your taxes are spent.

John D
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7709

Post by John D »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
Dave wrote:I can understand an argument that disenfranchisement DURING incarceration is a sensible measure, Im not sure I agree with it, but I can understand it. I completely fail to understand the logic behind disenfranchisement post-sentence.
There are some crimes for which there really is no fix (e.g., pedophilia); when you let them out, you are taking an above-chance risk, period. But that's more of an argument for not letting someone out. My take on disenfranchisement is pretty simple and comes from what I learned of US history in elementary school: if the person is subject to paying taxes, then they get to vote. (Conversely, any citizen who is not allowed to vote should not have to pay taxes.) The only exception that I would consider logical (which goes back to my opening) is when the person was convicted of misconduct related to an election (and, maybe, taxes). But even then, if they pay taxes, I'd let them vote because that's how you have say in how your taxes are spent.
Recidivism rates for pedophilia crimes are no greater than other types of crime (assault, burglary, murder, etc.). Just sayin.

I tend to think ex-cons should get to vote. They have served their time and punishing someone for life feels like it is right out of "Les Miserables".

blitzem
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7710

Post by blitzem »

Dave wrote:
John D wrote:Wow! One fine example by one of my fellow Michiganders. Dood's house has no power because of a storm. He sets up a generator and he PUTS IT IN HIS BASEMENT. Entire family is now dead from carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-n ... 7145-story
Call me an asshole, but Im thinking this guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award.
I think he already won.

NoGodsEver
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7711

Post by NoGodsEver »

comhcinc wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
5) If you believe drug laws are unjust, repeal them. Don't repeal disenfranchisement laws for all felons, just because you feel some felons shouldn't be felons in the first place
Disenfranchisement laws should just be repealed. You can't tell me that a crime I commited 16 years ago, and served my time for, and paid a fine for as well, should still be directly affecting me. And it is. I am barred for living a lot of places. I have literally had people rescind jobs after they find out I have a felony. Most of the time I just don't get an answer. I haven't gotten a job that does background checks in 9 years.
If I ran a business I'd hire someone with a felony on their record. A murder, even. Being a wrestling fan would make it a non-starter, however.

Spike13
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7712

Post by Spike13 »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Discuss
P1060541_zpsmynete5r.jpg

What's to discuss?

It's the tank that won the war!


(Ducks head and runs)

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7713

Post by Billie from Ockham »

John D wrote:Recidivism rates for pedophilia crimes are no greater than other types of crime (assault, burglary, murder, etc.). Just sayin.
We probably both need to go check our sources and get back to each other.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7714

Post by Shatterface »

My employer is signed up with this:
Ban the Box calls on UK employers to create a fair opportunity for ex-offenders to compete for jobs by removing the tick box from application forms and asking about criminal convictions later in the recruitment process.
http://www.bitc.org.uk/programmes/ban-box

Even David Cameron supports it.

The alternative is a cycle of recidivism and permanently unemployed underclass.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7715

Post by Billie from Ockham »

NoGodsEver wrote:If I ran a business I'd hire someone with a felony on their record. A murder, even. Being a wrestling fan would make it a non-starter, however.
In many states, there is not only no protection for employers who hire felons, but there is the opposite, such that hiring a felon who then commits a crime whilst an employee increases the liability of the employer. Maybe this isn't fair, but that's the way it is in many parts of the country. So employers are being rational in avoiding hiring felons.

If you don't like this, then get the law changed. Oh, wait, you can't get the law changed because you're a felon and can't vote. Ha!

NoGodsEver
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7716

Post by NoGodsEver »

I am? I guess I should find out who my parole officer is.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7717

Post by deLurch »

comhcinc wrote:It's one am! I have to be up at 6 to get the kids ready for school and then pretend like I don't want to kill myself for the rest of the day.
Christ. Sure you are probably not where you expected to be a couple of years ago. But not so long ago, you were unemployed, without a home and were about to lose access to your kids.

And in very short order, you got housing, a decent job and you are seeing your kids regularly. You knew what you wanted and you got it done. That impressed the hell out of me. Enjoy and acknowledge your own successes.

Now if you want something more, set forth your goal and start working on it.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7718

Post by deLurch »

NoGodsEver wrote:I am? I guess I should find out who my parole officer is.
That is me. Pee into this cup. I promise, I won't drink it.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7719

Post by free thoughtpolice »

You guise! Moar Jenny drama! :drool:
[youtube]3bfSb_bz0Dc[/youtube]

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7720

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Rebecca Watson brings her patreon video in just before the deadline:
[youtube]ptveqCIjJ7k[/youtube]

John D
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7721

Post by John D »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
John D wrote:Recidivism rates for pedophilia crimes are no greater than other types of crime (assault, burglary, murder, etc.). Just sayin.
We probably both need to go check our sources and get back to each other.
Here are some articles on the topic.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... od-crimes/

http://nationalrsol.org/resources/ten-m ... offenders/
Persons who commit sex offenses are not a homogeneous group, but instead fall into several different categories. As a result, research has identified significant differences in reoffense patterns from one category to another. Looking at reconviction rates alone, one large-scale analysis (Hanson and Bussiere, 1998) reported the following differences:

Child molesters had a 13 percent reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 37 percent reconviction rate for new, non-sex offenses over a five-year period.

Rapists had a 19 percent reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 46 percent reconviction rate for new, non-sexual offenses over a five year period.

Another study found reconviction rates for child molesters to be 20 percent and for rapists to be approximately 23 percent.

Recidivism rates for sex offenders are lower than for the general criminal population. For example, a Bureau of Justice Statistics study of 108,580 non-sex criminals released from prisons in 11 states in 1983 found that nearly 63 percent were rearrested for a non-sexual felony or serious misdemeanor within three years of their release from incarceration; 47 percent were reconvicted; and 41 percent were ultimately returned to prison or jail.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90200&page=1

Scented Nectar
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7722

Post by Scented Nectar »

Who pepper sprayed this poor woman (speaker, not the one in the lab coat) in the eyes? Maybe it was an accident during self-defense day in gender studies class. She should have taken a science course instead.

"Where Are All the Women Scientists?"
[youtube]XbfWzxRxeHI[/youtube]

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7723

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

John Greg wrote:Matt C. said:
Felons have reneged on the Hobbesian social contract; they cannot expect to receive the benefits thereof, if they fail to meet the obligations.
I understand your sentminent, but the problem is that a lot of felons are felons not because they really broke the Hobbesian social contract in any even slightly meaningful way, but because the law makers broke the Hobbesian social contract (so to speak), by creating draconian, bigoted, and woefully misguided anti-society laws that are specifically designed to control society solely to the benefit of the ruling class and the oligarchs/plutocrats -- which is especially true when one reviews the simple fact that people with very large amounts of money have a vastly greater chance of getting off scott-free, or with greatly, greatly diminished punishment, for almost all crimes on the books. So that when really wealthy people really break the Hobbesian social contract, they generally get away with it, and when some broke and powerless nobody just dips a quiet toe in some broken Hobbesian social contract backwater (so to speak), off to jail and social shunning they go.
I agree that all perps should receive the full force of the law, regardless of socio-economic background. Letting everyone off is not the solution.

Lsuoma
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7724

Post by Lsuoma »

free thoughtpolice wrote:Rebecca Watson brings her patreon video in just before the deadline:
[youtube]ptveqCIjJ7k[/youtube]
She's looking a lot better in that vid (at least in the thumbnail I'm seeing - I won't watch a Twatson vid...)

some guy
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7725

Post by some guy »

Lsuoma wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:Rebecca Watson brings her patreon video in just before the deadline:
[youtube]ptveqCIjJ7k[/youtube]
She's looking a lot better in that vid (at least in the thumbnail I'm seeing - I won't watch a Twatson vid...)
It's not really a RW video. Worth watching.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7726

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Kirbmarc wrote: Arguing from a Hobbesian point of view isn't the best way to make a point about the largely Lockeian liberal democracies of today.
Locke's philosophy incorporates much of Hobbes' social contract. Where they differ most is Hobbes' view that humans are by nature motivated by animal urges, vs. Locke's tabula rasa. We now know that both nature & nurture affect human behavior (ergo, a dialectic of Hobbes & Locke.)

I'm guessing you don't believe in rehabilitation of felons, or in the principle of paying back the harm done to society and being reintegrated in the social contract.
I said nothing of the sort. Our (US) present penal system, though, has little to do with those lofty ideals.

Victor Hugo wrote:"A benevolent malefactor, merciful, gentle, helpful, clement, a convict, returning good for evil, giving back pardon for hatred, preferring pity to vengeance, preferring to ruin himself rather than to ruin his enemy, saving him who had smitten him, kneeling on the heights of virtue, more nearly akin to an angel than to a man. Javert Cavanaugh was constrained to admit to himself that this monster existed.

Things could not go on in this manner.
Hugo is simpatico with Rousseau, who believed all humans were by nature pure good. Which is bullshit. More precisely, Hugo echoed Marx in ascribing noble character to the proletariat, while demonizing all other classes (with the exception of 'allies' like himself, of course). Hugo was also a bombastic wanker, and acted like a sadistic, genocidal extremist during the Paris Commune.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7727

Post by Brive1987 »

Hey. Remember that online ideologue who promoted an un-named woman's rape allegations which supported his identity politics based crusade?

The one who had no direct evidence but found the woman credible after a series of conversations, who had no reason to doubt her story?

The one where the allegations were supported by additional converging lines of contemporary evidence?

Well fuck me, the bastard has just retracted and apologised.

http://archive.is/gT0Lh

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7728

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
The only right a felon should be afforded is the only one expressly granted to felons in the US Constitution: protection from cruel & unusual punishment.
Why does this kick in (for you) at the level of felonies? Is there a reason that we shouldn't deny, for example, the right to free speech, security in papers and effects, voting, etc., to anyone who has ever been found guilty of, say, a moving violation?
I'm not about to get into a debate over the categorical difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. Suffice it to say that every western democracy has deemed that difference significant, and has clearly demarcated the boundary between the two.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7729

Post by Scented Nectar »

I've never heard of this source (express.co.uk), but if the story's true, this is insane! School calls police on a kid who looked at the UKIP website on a school computer. From http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539 ... ed-website ...
PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

Teenager Joe Taylor was flagged up for political extremism by the deputy head after he used a school computer to click on the party's website.

The 15-year-old went online earlier this week to research immigration following a classroom discussion on the subject, logging on with his school username.

But he was stunned when teachers subsequently reported him to the police, claiming he had raised welfare concerns by visiting "politically incorrect websites".

Amazingly he was referred to a specialist team whose usual brief is preventing vulnerable youngsters from being groomed and indoctrinated by Islamic State (ISIS) jihadis.

The youngster, who attends Wildern School in Hedge End, Southampton, was then hauled out of class on Wednesday morning so that he could be quizzed by an officer from Hampshire police.

During the interrogation the detective reportedly accused the youngster of being a UKIP "activist" and said it was "not right" that he had visited the party's website.

Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website.

UKIP said the revelations were "astonishing" and provided further evidence of a "pervasive left-wing culture" amongst public sector workers.

The party's candidate for Hampshire Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) also raised concerns that teachers and officers may be carrying out an "anti-UKIP campaign" to influence young people.

The shocking intervention only came to light after Joe's dad Mick contacted Express.co.uk to express his outrage at the treatment of his son, who spends much of his spare time caring for his mum who suffered a stroke six months ago.

He revealed that he received a phone call from teachers at Wildern on Monday morning telling him the police had been contacted over his son's internet use, and asking him to attend a meeting with officers on Wednesday.

When he arrived he was informed that Joe's access to the UKIP website had flagged up safety concerns, which had been passed on to the police's specialist radicalisation team.

Mr Taylor, 52, said: "On Monday I receive a phone call and they said he's been looking at some politically incorrect material at school.

"My first reaction was to ask them if it was porn, but they said no - it was the UKIP website. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

"We went into reception with the police officer and their first question to my son was 'why are you a political activist for UKIP'?

"I asked why are you worried about the UKIP website and they said 'well, we don't think it's right'."

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7730

Post by Brive1987 »

Click has been fired?

http://theralphretort.com/sjw-thug-meli ... i-2025016/

The board voted 4-2 in favor of termination during a closed session in Kansas City, with Henrickson and curator John Phillips opposing the move, UM System spokesman John Fougere wrote in an email Thursday…Click did not respond to a message seeking comment Thursday. The board earlier voted to suspend Click with pay on Jan. 27.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7731

Post by Brive1987 »


Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7732

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Dave wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
5) If you believe drug laws are unjust, repeal them. Don't repeal disenfranchisement laws for all felons, just because you feel some felons shouldn't be felons in the first place
Disenfranchisement laws should just be repealed. You can't tell me that a crime I commited 16 years ago, and served my time for, and paid a fine for as well, should still be directly affecting me. And it is. I am barred for living a lot of places. I have literally had people rescind jobs after they find out I have a felony. Most of the time I just don't get an answer. I haven't gotten a job that does background checks in 9 years.
I can understand an argument that disenfranchisement DURING incarceration is a sensible measure, Im not sure I agree with it, but I can understand it. I completely fail to understand the logic behind disenfranchisement post-sentence.

On the jobs front, it is a bit more complicated. Although I understand and may even sympathize with the plight it puts you in, I have my shareholders and insurance companies to answer to. Not doing background checks, or ignoring their results will drive up my insurance rates. As I am in a regulated industry, background checks on prospective hires is also required by the federal agencies that oversee my company. They can tell my clients they are prohibitied from doing business with me and I will go out of business. Being able to re-integrate former felons into the workforce is necessary and a benefit to society, but more than the laws are stacked against it.
I believe voting rights should be restored once a sentence is served. It is illogical to continue to punish after the punishment is supposedly over.

Criminal records are public, and should stay that way.

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7733

Post by deLurch »

Brive1987 wrote:Click has been fired?

http://theralphretort.com/sjw-thug-meli ... i-2025016/

The board voted 4-2 in favor of termination during a closed session in Kansas City, with Henrickson and curator John Phillips opposing the move, UM System spokesman John Fougere wrote in an email Thursday…Click did not respond to a message seeking comment Thursday. The board earlier voted to suspend Click with pay on Jan. 27.
Smart move. I somehow suspect the 20 million dollars lost in future enrollment were also part of this decision.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7734

Post by Brive1987 »

It's a sad day when a prof seeking tenure can't cuss at a police officer or call for the application of 'muscle' on a student.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7735

Post by Malky »

welch wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:
You're a horrible person. But only because you didn't record the 'Pit hangout. Monster! :snooty:

Some people seem to think I am such a horrible person that they think I did.

For that type of hangout we did the ability to record is not baked into the program. We were on "hangouts" while someone like Sargon uses "hangouts on air". Hangouts on Air automatically records the video feed as well as letting people watch live.

To record what we did you would need to use secondary software. Frankly I doubt my laptop is powerful enough to do it at without locking up.
Meh. Not everything needs to be recorded forever so people can get shouty about spoilers while being lazy asses. Sometime, it's okay to have something only be real for a short time, then forever after only exist in memories.
If anyone wants to record any type of hangout surely all that is required is a screen capture programme such as active presenter? (this is free software and quite good) Any capture can be easily exported to video or is there something I am missing?

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7736

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:I'm not about to get into a debate over the categorical difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. Suffice it to say that every western democracy has deemed that difference significant, and has clearly demarcated the boundary between the two.
Well, as they say down the hall in the social-psych labs, who needs validity when you've got reliability, eh?

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7737

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Github goes deeper into the SJW abyss:

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/02/2 ... arassment/

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7738

Post by comhcinc »

The important part from that.
“The board respects Dr. Click’s right to express her views and does not base this decision on her support for students engaged in protest or their views,” Henrickson said in the prepared statement. “However, Dr. Click was not entitled to interfere with the rights of others, to confront members of law enforcement or to encourage potential physical intimidation against a student.”

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7739

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Brive1987 wrote:It's a sad day when a prof seeking tenure can't cuss at a police officer or call for the application of 'muscle' on a student.
Exactly! If the tenure-tracks can do this, what use is tenure? After all, from what I've been told, even with tenure you still can't act your fantasies concerning your students. A certain PZ Myers will back me up on this.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#7740

Post by debaser71 »

Interesting turn of events in this news story.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/crim ... 1.11510159

"A University at Albany student from Long Island who claimed she was the victim of a racially motivated attack last month faces criminal charges after university police determined she and her friends were actually the aggressors, officials said Thursday....

All three face assault charges. Burwell and Agudio also each face a charge of falsely reporting an incident. The women are scheduled to be arraigned Monday in Albany City Police Court."

Locked