The Refuge of the Toads

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Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10441

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Tigzy wrote:I preferred the LotR films to the books, which I found ponderous. I got very irritated by the way the characters would rarely just call someone, say, 'Dave' - no, it had to be 'David son of Glomin throne-steward of the Hallowed Ward of the Five Wank Oaks.' Tedious. And Tolkien completely undermined the central evil - the one ring's evil and overpowering influece - by introducing a completely superfluous character, Tom Bombadil, who was like 'lol this ring be my bitch'. Given that this happened almost at the outset, the so-called power of the one ring seemed pretty pedestrian after that. Which is apt, considering that infamous scene from Clerks 2.

I'm not saying the LotR films are without their faults, but Jackson made good choices in what he left out from the books. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that if you cut out all that 'Glombo son of Glompin chief ward of the dick bollock bollocks something throne of the bollocks whatevers', you could trim those three tomes down to a reasonably well paced novella.
Tom Bombadil is, through hints and quite a few fan theories, supposed to be the Arda avatar of Eru Ilùvatar. Seeing it this way makes the character a lot more interesting than the singing clown he's presented as in the books.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10442

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Shatterface wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Colour of magic/Light Fantastic was a puke-inducing shit fest.
You talking about the Sky TV adaptation with David Jason?
Yes. Jason was very good as Albert in Hogfather, but he was never meant to be Rincewind. Nigel Planer would have been my choice from the start.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10443

Post by screwtape »

Outed1TimeAsGrey! wrote:New interview with Gregory Allen Elliott of the Canadian Crown vs court case.
[youtube]Jye2EuyqAnY[/youtube]
What a reasonable-sounding guy. And yet all I read in Canadian media is how wrong the judge was and how women must be protected on social media. Just as well I don't have a twitter account.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10444

Post by Shatterface »

I pictured Rincewind as a youngish hippy, like Planer as Neal in The Young Ones or Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10445

Post by John Greg »

Phil said:
Tom Bombadil is, through hints and quite a few fan theories, supposed to be the Arda avatar of Eru Ilùvatar.


That's interesting. I hadn't heard that, and yes, you're right, it does make the Bombadil character much more interesting than the dancing clown.

So, who's Goldberry?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10446

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Shatterface wrote:I pictured Rincewind as a youngish hippy, like Planer as Neal in The Young Ones or Shaggy from Scooby Doo.
Precisely. I will not dis David Jason's acting, but the casting was just wrong, and it killed the movie for me. Nigel in the Young Ones was a perfect fit (he did get a nice part in Godfather, though). This is Rincewind:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/dis ... 0514182916

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10447

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Make that Hogfather.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10448

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

John Greg wrote:Phil said:
Tom Bombadil is, through hints and quite a few fan theories, supposed to be the Arda avatar of Eru Ilùvatar.


That's interesting. I hadn't heard that, and yes, you're right, it does make the Bombadil character much more interesting than the dancing clown.

So, who's Goldberry?
Melkor/Morgoth?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10449

Post by John D »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
Tigzy wrote:I preferred the LotR films to the books, which I found ponderous. I got very irritated by the way the characters would rarely just call someone, say, 'Dave' - no, it had to be 'David son of Glomin throne-steward of the Hallowed Ward of the Five Wank Oaks.' Tedious. And Tolkien completely undermined the central evil - the one ring's evil and overpowering influece - by introducing a completely superfluous character, Tom Bombadil, who was like 'lol this ring be my bitch'. Given that this happened almost at the outset, the so-called power of the one ring seemed pretty pedestrian after that. Which is apt, considering that infamous scene from Clerks 2.

I'm not saying the LotR films are without their faults, but Jackson made good choices in what he left out from the books. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that if you cut out all that 'Glombo son of Glompin chief ward of the dick bollock bollocks something throne of the bollocks whatevers', you could trim those three tomes down to a reasonably well paced novella.
Tom Bombadil is, through hints and quite a few fan theories, supposed to be the Arda avatar of Eru Ilùvatar. Seeing it this way makes the character a lot more interesting than the singing clown he's presented as in the books.
To me, Tom Bombadil is a personification of an ancient primordial god. This explains his aloofness. He is powerful but has no need to "use" his power. He is an almost Gaia type of character.... like he is part of the origin of concepts like compassion, love, and sexuality. He is outside of Middle Earth.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10450

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

John Greg wrote:Phil said:
Tom Bombadil is, through hints and quite a few fan theories, supposed to be the Arda avatar of Eru Ilùvatar.


That's interesting. I hadn't heard that, and yes, you're right, it does make the Bombadil character much more interesting than the dancing clown.

So, who's Goldberry?
From the Cesspit of Lies:
Tolkien says little about Tom Bombadil's origins in the cosmology of Middle-earth. Bombadil calls himself the "Eldest" and the "Master". He claims to remember "the first raindrop and the first acorn", and that he "knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside". He does not fit neatly into the categories of beings Tolkien created. Readers have speculated about his true nature, suggesting that he is one of the Ainur, angelic beings who shaped the earth, or even God (Eru Ilúvatar in Tolkien's legendarium), pointing to the passage where Frodo asks Goldberry just who Tom Bombadil is; she responds simply by saying "He is". But Tolkien rejected the notion that Bombadil is God,[2] and carefully differentiated Goldberry's response from the Biblical "I Am that I Am".[3] Robert Foster in The Complete Guide to Middle Earth describes Tom Bombadil as "a Maia 'gone native'"
At this point, anything goes, but Tom is way more than meets the eye.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10451

Post by John Greg »

Melkor/Morgoth?

:clap:

:whistle:

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10452

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

John D wrote: To me, Tom Bombadil is a personification of an ancient primordial god. This explains his aloofness. He is powerful but has no need to "use" his power. He is an almost Gaia type of character.... like he is part of the origin of concepts like compassion, love, and sexuality. He is outside of Middle Earth.
That's a very good approach too. A kind of natural force, unbound to earthly matters but still willing to participate.

One thing I love about the Tolkien books (save the Silmarillion) is it's readability. Ali and I spent many a night reading the Hobbit to each other, doing the voices and singing the songs as we went along. I'm no Cumberbatch, but I can do a very decent Smaug if pushed.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10453

Post by Tigzy »

John D wrote: To me, Tom Bombadil is a personification of an ancient primordial god. This explains his aloofness. He is powerful but has no need to "use" his power. He is an almost Gaia type of character.... like he is part of the origin of concepts like compassion, love, and sexuality. He is outside of Middle Earth.
Pity it didn't translate to him being left outside the LotR.

Superfluous waste of space, didn't affect the story at all other than to dilute the power of the big bad - in a story about a big bad so bad Tolkien cranked out three volumes detailing the long, gruelling journey necessary to destroy it.

It was just dumb. Did Tolky even have an editor?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10454

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Tigzy wrote:
John D wrote: To me, Tom Bombadil is a personification of an ancient primordial god. This explains his aloofness. He is powerful but has no need to "use" his power. He is an almost Gaia type of character.... like he is part of the origin of concepts like compassion, love, and sexuality. He is outside of Middle Earth.
Pity it didn't translate to him being left outside the LotR.

Superfluous waste of space, didn't affect the story at all other than to dilute the power of the big bad - in a story about a big bad so bad Tolkien cranked out three volumes detailing the long, gruelling journey necessary to destroy it.

It was just dumb. Did Tolky even have an editor?
Keep in mind that The Hobbit (and to some extent, LoTR) were bedtime stories meant for Tolkien's kids. They were also just a vessel for Tolkien's linguistic OCD. in the grand scheme of things, I'd say he performed most greatly. You can pardon a few rural ventures, as it were.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10455

Post by Dave »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
John D wrote: To me, Tom Bombadil is a personification of an ancient primordial god. This explains his aloofness. He is powerful but has no need to "use" his power. He is an almost Gaia type of character.... like he is part of the origin of concepts like compassion, love, and sexuality. He is outside of Middle Earth.
That's a very good approach too. A kind of natural force, unbound to earthly matters but still willing to participate.

One thing I love about the Tolkien books (save the Silmarillion) is it's readability. Ali and I spent many a night reading the Hobbit to each other, doing the voices and singing the songs as we went along. I'm no Cumberbatch, but I can do a very decent Smaug if pushed.
Made me think of this:

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5756DC3E

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10456

Post by Tigzy »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote: Keep in mind that The Hobbit (and to some extent, LoTR) were bedtime stories meant for Tolkien's kids.
'...and what say thee, Theoden King -'

Come on you little bastard, fall asleep

'-er - Theoden King son of Theodric - uh'

Oh, long blink there - right you little shit, let's see you be awake after this -

'- Theodric of the, uh, Rohirrim. Yes, Rohirrim. Cousin of Eomer, protector of Rohan, weilder of the, erm, Sword of Arngoth, Horse Lord of the Hills bounded by Mirkwood, Steward of the Vales blah blah blah...'

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10457

Post by Jack Wooster »

Søren Lilholt wrote:
Soapy Stevens wrote:
Søren Lilholt wrote:FWIW, the main concept is ripped off of 'the Matrix' from Doctor Who - a piece of blatant plagiarism that, as far as I know, was never acknowledged. (If you don't believe me, check out 'The Deadly Assassin' episode 3...)
I don't see how it was plagiarism off that - the protagonists in that ep were aware they were in a simulation. The only similarity is that they both involve VR simulations – but those ideas were hardly new in SF even with Dr Who at that point. Lem's Phantomology might be the first to explore the idea in the 1960s but I wouldn't be surprised to see it go further back.

The Matrix had the neat idea, I thought, of making contemporary reality the only fake reality humanity would accept. Plus there was plenty of scenery chewing by Hugo Weaving - which might have been deliberate direction - his automaton was the only character that seemed to have strong emotions about anything.
You don't see how "The Matrix" might possibly have plagiarised from a show which featured a similar concept also called "the Matrix"?

Not sure what else there is to say, really... :confusion-shrug:
I did wonder when the Matrix re-appeared in Death In Heaven how many would think they were ripping off the film rather than refering to The Tautological Assasin.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10458

Post by Service Dog »

Tony Atlas Shrugged
:flags-usa: :fpig: :burn:
[youtube]zjvrUv8gS8c[/youtube]

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10459

Post by Brive1987 »

Watsons latest Patreon reward.

Having swum in and consumed shit last week she is now sick. She describes the action of swallowing mucus and demonstrates on camera.

She notes she could listen to her audiobooks if she commuted to work rather than "working from home".

She has hitched herself onto another couple to do a podcast talking about movies. So I guess her big project announced when leaving SGU was vapour. The movie exercise is slated for April and is "really exciting".

She's holding a quiz-a-thing but doesn't know who will be on it.

[youtube]RGHxLTmdtOY[/youtube]

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10460

Post by Brive1987 »

Tigzy wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote: Keep in mind that The Hobbit (and to some extent, LoTR) were bedtime stories meant for Tolkien's kids.
'...and what say thee, Theoden King -'

Come on you little bastard, fall asleep

'-er - Theoden King son of Theodric - uh'

Oh, long blink there - right you little shit, let's see you be awake after this -

'- Theodric of the, uh, Rohirrim. Yes, Rohirrim. Cousin of Eomer, protector of Rohan, weilder of the, erm, Sword of Arngoth, Horse Lord of the Hills bounded by Mirkwood, Steward of the Vales blah blah blah...'
LOTR was written in the 1940s as an English epic by a Professor specialising in Anglo-Saxon literature. To reject this genre in favour of an action flick aimed at teenagers is of course a legitimate choice for you to make.

Please, stand tall, be proud and ignore the inevitable shit thrown at you.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10461

Post by Spike13 »

In the same way that Comic book movies are not made for comic book fans, LotR wasn't made for hardcore fans.

They're loosely based, subject to character changes. Etc.

You want to appeal to as broad a base as possible, but, much like McDonalds hamburgers, you get a diluted and tasteless product.( at least as compared to what "it could be")

The hardcore fan would love nothing more than sitting through a six hour epic capturing all the nuance of the source material, the rest of the world, not so much.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10462

Post by Tigzy »

Brive1987 wrote:Watsons latest Patreon reward.

Having swum in and consumed shit last week she is now sick. She describes the action of swallowing mucus and demonstrates on camera.

She notes she could listen to her audiobooks if she commuted to work rather than "working from home".

She has hitched herself onto another couple to do a podcast talking about movies. So I guess her big project announced when leaving SGU was vapour. The movie exercise is slated for April and is "really exciting".

She's holding a quiz-a-thing but doesn't know who will be on it.

[youtube]RGHxLTmdtOY[/youtube]
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'I cri evry time my Bweca is poorly.'

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10463

Post by Tigzy »

Shit, all of a sudden LotR seems the very model of conciseness and scintillating prose.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10464

Post by Dave »

Brive1987 wrote: LOTR was written in the 1940s as an English epic by a Professor specialising in Anglo-Saxon literature..
So someone hip-deep in shit like this:
He belonged by birth to the Myrging tribe.
Along with Ealhild, the kind peace-weaver,
for the first time, from the Baltic coast,
he sought the home of Eormanric,
king of the Ostrogoths, hostile to traitors.
Be glad it was as short as it was.

Dont like it? Theres an alternate version for you:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512MZAP6QXL.jpg

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10465

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Skep tickle wrote:
rayshul wrote:Thinking about it I feel like it's kind of, you know, what they've done to PZ. He's an idiot with fame and those four have fucked him up and eaten off what fame they can get from his endorsement. I would have never heard of a single one of them without PZ (and I didn't hear about any them until Elevatorgate). So this feels like that's where the guy is - these people have taught him how to think, made him promote them, and while he still manages to pull traffic they're going to continue to siphon off as much as they can.

They'll pick his bones clean. And he'll let them.

And I think that's rather sad, although the sadness element is, as Phil has pointed out, somewhat tempered by the fact that he's done some really awful things.
I had the sudden image of someone, maybe a few years from now, analyzing symbolism in 'Pit shoops for their master's thesis.
As soon as they start men's studies courses it's almost inevitable.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10466

Post by Shatterface »

Matrix is a mathematical term for a grid or array.

The first time I heard it applied to virtual reality was in Doctor Who but it was widely used in science fiction in the Eighties (though TRON went with the synonym 'Grid') so calling it 'plagiarism' is as unfair as accusing anyone who uses the word 'spaceship' of plagiarising John Jacob Astor III.

I suspect the word's etymology (womb) also appealed to the Wachowskis as Neo's awakening was coded as a rebirth, and the jacks are like an umbilical cord that plugs into the brain.

Doctor Who wasn't the first cult children's show to feature virtual reality; that might have been Timeslip a few years earlier. Adults would have seen it even earlier as it was used to mind-fuck The Prisoner. They didn't use the term Matrix but they didn't use 'virtual reality' either.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10467

Post by Shatterface »

Footnote: the guy who coined the word 'spaceship' died on the Titanic.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10468

Post by Badger3k »

Tigzy wrote:I preferred the LotR films to the books, which I found ponderous. I got very irritated by the way the characters would rarely just call someone, say, 'Dave' - no, it had to be 'David son of Glomin throne-steward of the Hallowed Ward of the Five Wank Oaks.' Tedious. And Tolkien completely undermined the central evil - the one ring's evil and overpowering influece - by introducing a completely superfluous character, Tom Bombadil, who was like 'lol this ring be my bitch'. Given that this happened almost at the outset, the so-called power of the one ring seemed pretty pedestrian after that. Which is apt, considering that infamous scene from Clerks 2.

I'm not saying the LotR films are without their faults, but Jackson made good choices in what he left out from the books. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that if you cut out all that 'Glombo son of Glompin chief ward of the dick bollock bollocks something throne of the bollocks whatevers', you could trim those three tomes down to a reasonably well paced novella.
When I tried to reread the LOTR trilogy in one go, after several decades, I was stuck at how bad Tolkien actually was. He was a genius at world building, but he had horrible sense of timing/pacing. By the time I got to the third book, I was skimming chapters just to get it done. I was reminded of all the movies that got MST3K/Rifftrax - the long driving and parking scenes mostly. Tolkien wrote a lot of those type of scenes.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10469

Post by Shatterface »

Dave wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: LOTR was written in the 1940s as an English epic by a Professor specialising in Anglo-Saxon literature..
So someone hip-deep in shit like this:
He belonged by birth to the Myrging tribe.
Along with Ealhild, the kind peace-weaver,
for the first time, from the Baltic coast,
he sought the home of Eormanric,
king of the Ostrogoths, hostile to traitors.
Be glad it was as short as it was.

Dont like it? Theres an alternate version for you:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512MZAP6QXL.jpg
There was a BBC radio comedy called Hordes of the Things aired just months before their epic Lord of the Rings serial began.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10470

Post by Brive1987 »

Amazing prose and equality feminism. The youth of today don't know what they missed.

http://i.imgur.com/bNAybhM.jpg

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10471

Post by Brive1987 »

Shatterface wrote:Footnote: the guy who coined the word 'spaceship' died on the Titanic.
Was that the xmas special with Kylie Minogue?

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10472

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
German StrutBoatsman wrote:I liked what they tried to do with Kings to the David/Saul/Samuel story back in 2009.

Got cancelled after the first season and the budget wasn't too high, so I wouldn't necessarily advise too watch.
I credit the appeal of the show on McShane's performance as Saul (Silas). And I really enjoyed the David/Goliath twist. It could have been great.
David killing a King Tiger tank with just a bazooka (but they didn't have the money to actually film it)? That's how I remember it.

Did we discuss that series here before? I seem to have some kind of Deja-vu.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10473

Post by comhcinc »

Shatterface wrote:I've read very little fantasy. I'm much more of a science fiction guy. It's so much a question of getting the science right as accepting that scientific thinking trumps magical thinking.

The thing about fantasy is if it's done right there is no magical thinking. There is magic, but it has rules and the internal logic is established and not broken.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10474

Post by comhcinc »

acathode wrote:
Tigzy wrote:I preferred the LotR films to the books, which I found ponderous. I got very irritated by the way the characters would rarely just call someone, say, 'Dave' - no, it had to be 'David son of Glomin throne-steward of the Hallowed Ward of the Five Wank Oaks.' Tedious. And Tolkien completely undermined the central evil - the one ring's evil and overpowering influece - by introducing a completely superfluous character, Tom Bombadil, who was like 'lol this ring be my bitch'. Given that this happened almost at the outset, the so-called power of the one ring seemed pretty pedestrian after that. Which is apt, considering that infamous scene from Clerks 2.

I'm not saying the LotR films are without their faults, but Jackson made good choices in what he left out from the books. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that if you cut out all that 'Glombo son of Glompin chief ward of the dick bollock bollocks something throne of the bollocks whatevers', you could trim those three tomes down to a reasonably well paced novella.
I agree. I've been a fantasy/sci-fi book nerd since I was around 8-9 (I got hooked on Lewis and Asimov) - and I just never could get myself to like the LOTR books - no matter how hard I tried I just found them to damn boring, eventually finding myself skipping pages after pages and then losing interest. Yes, the world-crafting Tolkien did was impressive - but as a storyteller, he's... "lacking", to express myself diplomatically.

The movies on the other hand... very enjoyable. They cut all of the lengthy bullshit out and instead just show the world (instead of 5+ pages describing every miniscule, boring detail of it), while keeping the story well-paced and interesting.
I enjoyed the books but I also am on board with liking the movies more. It was a pacing issue for me and I also skipped pages of description and most of the second book, on my first read.

The book that really got me in to reading is the Dragonlance books.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10475

Post by Brive1987 »

I always thought it very cool how JRRT used language to convey meaning - such as the formal speech of the Witch King (thou etc) to the responding "you". The whole think was a metaphor for different languages, social sets etc - per the appendix notes. And is very fluid as you progress thru the various Kingdoms and races.

I doubt that's a nuance the callow youth of today would discover or value. Especially as it's not movie canon.

I could be wrong.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10476

Post by Jack Wooster »

Shatterface wrote:
Dave wrote:
There was a BBC radio comedy called Hordes of the Things aired just months before their epic Lord of the Rings serial began.
Hoards Of The Things was a work of towering comic genius, that seemed to dissapear with barely a whimper. Almost every line is a quotable joy, much like The Hitchhikers Guide.

"Break open another case of chocolate legs"

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10477

Post by comhcinc »

Søren Lilholt wrote:
Soapy Stevens wrote:
Søren Lilholt wrote:FWIW, the main concept is ripped off of 'the Matrix' from Doctor Who - a piece of blatant plagiarism that, as far as I know, was never acknowledged. (If you don't believe me, check out 'The Deadly Assassin' episode 3...)
I don't see how it was plagiarism off that - the protagonists in that ep were aware they were in a simulation. The only similarity is that they both involve VR simulations – but those ideas were hardly new in SF even with Dr Who at that point. Lem's Phantomology might be the first to explore the idea in the 1960s but I wouldn't be surprised to see it go further back.

The Matrix had the neat idea, I thought, of making contemporary reality the only fake reality humanity would accept. Plus there was plenty of scenery chewing by Hugo Weaving - which might have been deliberate direction - his automaton was the only character that seemed to have strong emotions about anything.
You don't see how "The Matrix" might possibly have plagiarised from a show which featured a similar concept also called "the Matrix"?

Not sure what else there is to say, really... :confusion-shrug:

I have a cousin that to this very day believes that there was a syndicated show in the early 90s called The Matrix which informed the movie. I have yet to see proof of it.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10478

Post by comhcinc »

Shatterface wrote:I pictured Rincewind as a youngish hippy, like Planer as Neal in The Young Ones or Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

I always read him as Eric Idle.

John D
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10479

Post by John D »

Shatterface wrote:
Dave wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: LOTR was written in the 1940s as an English epic by a Professor specialising in Anglo-Saxon literature..
So someone hip-deep in shit like this:
He belonged by birth to the Myrging tribe.
Along with Ealhild, the kind peace-weaver,
for the first time, from the Baltic coast,
he sought the home of Eormanric,
king of the Ostrogoths, hostile to traitors.
Be glad it was as short as it was.

Dont like it? Theres an alternate version for you:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512MZAP6QXL.jpg
There was a BBC radio comedy called Hordes of the Things aired just months before their epic Lord of the Rings serial began.
I have read Bored of the Rings twice... haha.

I find the language of LOTR to be immersive. You really need to pay attention and this challenge makes the reading more transformative. I like to read old myths and such for the same reason. I have read the Iliad and the Odyssey and Beowulf etc.... multiple times... even the Bible and the Koran and the Gita. JRRT captures that same feel for me.

Guest_7b8aa4eb

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10480

Post by Guest_7b8aa4eb »

Søren Lilholt wrote:
Soapy Stevens wrote:
Søren Lilholt wrote:FWIW, the main concept is ripped off of 'the Matrix' from Doctor Who - a piece of blatant plagiarism that, as far as I know, was never acknowledged. (If you don't believe me, check out 'The Deadly Assassin' episode 3...)
I don't see how it was plagiarism off that - the protagonists in that ep were aware they were in a simulation. The only similarity is that they both involve VR simulations – but those ideas were hardly new in SF even with Dr Who at that point. Lem's Phantomology might be the first to explore the idea in the 1960s but I wouldn't be surprised to see it go further back.

The Matrix had the neat idea, I thought, of making contemporary reality the only fake reality humanity would accept. Plus there was plenty of scenery chewing by Hugo Weaving - which might have been deliberate direction - his automaton was the only character that seemed to have strong emotions about anything.
You don't see how "The Matrix" might possibly have plagiarised from a show which featured a similar concept also called "the Matrix"?

Not sure what else there is to say, really... :confusion-shrug:
You're propably thinking of Tekwar by William Shatner (though ghostwritten by Ron Goulart). Their version of the internet was called the Matrix.

[youtube]IvpEoOlZf2g[/youtube]

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10481

Post by comhcinc »

Spike13 wrote:In the same way that Comic book movies are not made for comic book fans, LotR wasn't made for hardcore fans.

They're loosely based, subject to character changes. Etc.

You want to appeal to as broad a base as possible, but, much like McDonalds hamburgers, you get a diluted and tasteless product.( at least as compared to what "it could be")

The hardcore fan would love nothing more than sitting through a six hour epic capturing all the nuance of the source material, the rest of the world, not so much.

Comic book movies are becoming much more hardcore fan friendly. The recent example of this is after the first trailer dropped for x men apocalypse they change apocalypse's color from a purple to a more comic book like blue.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10482

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

comhcinc wrote:
Shatterface wrote:I pictured Rincewind as a youngish hippy, like Planer as Neal in The Young Ones or Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

I always read him as Eric Idle.
True that. But maybe it's because of Idle's performance on the game Discworld II?

[youtube]L9pQUKV9MuM[/youtube]

Brive1987
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Posts: 17791
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10483

Post by Brive1987 »

Shatterface wrote:
Dave wrote:
Brive1987 wrote: LOTR was written in the 1940s as an English epic by a Professor specialising in Anglo-Saxon literature..
So someone hip-deep in shit like this:
He belonged by birth to the Myrging tribe.
Along with Ealhild, the kind peace-weaver,
for the first time, from the Baltic coast,
he sought the home of Eormanric,
king of the Ostrogoths, hostile to traitors.
Be glad it was as short as it was.

Dont like it? Theres an alternate version for you:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512MZAP6QXL.jpg
There was a BBC radio comedy called Hordes of the Things aired just months before their epic Lord of the Rings serial began.
http://i.imgur.com/bx9sFaE.jpg

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10484

Post by Brive1987 »

Just another Carrier dream.

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10485

Post by comhcinc »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Shatterface wrote:I pictured Rincewind as a youngish hippy, like Planer as Neal in The Young Ones or Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

I always read him as Eric Idle.
True that. But maybe it's because of Idle's performance on the game Discworld II?

[youtube]L9pQUKV9MuM[/youtube]

Never played it.

Kirbmarc
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Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10486

Post by Kirbmarc »

Brive1987 wrote:Just another Carrier dream.
And like every Carrier dream, it ultimately comes to nothing but a deceptive tease for a book.

deLurch
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Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10487

Post by deLurch »

d4m10n wrote:
deLurch wrote:For anyone feeling super sorry for the Missouri U faculty & staff who have had their salaries frozen, keep in mind that 100 of them signed a letter in support of Melissa Click.
I found the breakdown of her supporters by academic department somewhat instructive.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... es-mizzou/

/shameless plug :mrgreen:
Interesting. Of course one might conclude that the English department has more staff than many of the other departments such as Woman's Studies.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10488

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

comhcinc wrote:

Never played it.
Never too late:

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/30935 ... bytes.html

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10489

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I'll be off the Pit for a few days. Going to the mountains again to re-record my choirs for the new album. No internet connection there.

You kids be good and behave.

Keating
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10490

Post by Keating »

Let's start the betting pool for how injured Phil will be when we next year from him.

I'm guessing mauled by a mole.

John D
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Posts: 5966
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10491

Post by John D »

Keating wrote:Let's start the betting pool for how injured Phil will be when we next year from him.

I'm guessing mauled by a mole.
He is going to the mountains.... it will not be a mole.... it will be a pika

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10492

Post by Gumby »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I'll be off the Pit for a few days. Going to the mountains again to re-record my choirs for the new album. No internet connection there.

You kids be good and behave.
Watch out for bears.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10493

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Gumby wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I'll be off the Pit for a few days. Going to the mountains again to re-record my choirs for the new album. No internet connection there.

You kids be good and behave.
Watch out for bears.
Sounds familiar...


https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=574C9420

Aneris
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Posts: 3198
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Sam Harris vs Omer Aziz (feat. PZ Myers)

#10494

Post by Aneris »

I listend to the podcast yesterday, between Sam Harris and Jonathan Haidt. It begins with an episode about something else – yet another failed interview between Sam Harris and someone else.

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/evolving-minds

This time, it was the unknown writer Omer Aziz who had produced a scathing review of Harris' and Nawaz' recent collaboration “Islam and the Future of Tolerance”. According to Harris, he felt the review was missing the point entirely and he wanted to reach out to Aziz to discuss the review. Aziz was asked to read his text in full, and they would discuss everything along that track. Sam Harris says this on record to Aziz and they talk about these conditions, and they seem fine (Aziz also accepted them apparently).

But apparently, the result was atrocious enough that he saw no desire to inflict it onto the world. Aziz then took to write for Salon and portrayed the situation this way:
Omer Aziz wrote:“I would have to read the essay word for word, he could stop me whenever he wanted, I could not record the talk, and Harris reserved the right not to air it if it was “boring”—a standard to be defined only by him, and only after the fact.”
The reality of the situation is pretty clear. The purpose was to discuss the review, but they could discuss along the way – which is also the most plausible scenario. We also know this, because Sam Harris says it to Omer Aziz, which you can hear in the beginning of the podcast with Haidt (one could dispute the authenticity of the recording, but that would be inane). Omer Aziz is mistaken.

Enter PZ Myers: The master of confirmation bias has of course no interest in anything. Not the conversation. Not the nature of the dispute. Not what might have caused the misunderstandings. And not what might cause frequent misunderstandings of this kind. He only cares about ranting to his audience that Harris is a terrible person: His entire point. What was already his tendency years ago is apparently rarefied into pure hatred without anything else.

http://archive.is/0H3UE

Astonishingly – if he was a serious crticial thinker, which of course he isn't – PZ Myers begins with the headline: “Empirical evidence and reason demonstrate that Sam Harris is an arrogant ass” as if he needs to confirm his own views or that of his choir. Ostensibly, Myers is still on his quest to tell atheists to be more critical with its alleged leaders (he doesn't get that this is a critical case of projection).

What's the “empirical evidence” of Harris terribleness? That would be the opinion of someone who was – from the outset – hostile to Sam Harris. Myers “reason” here is to simply agree with the opinion of one person who has a similar views as himself. I give you some pause so that you can properly process this thought. He then manages to satirize himself with the first paragraph already, when he admits that without “even considering the content, we can conclude that Harris is a dishonest clown.” In other words, without considering the “empirical evidence” that supposedly “demonstrate” something he can “reasonably” conclude something. I don't know when PZ Myers became a satirist, but he does it rather well.

His comment section has the same flair as ever. Everyone is of course in complete agreement. As usual, some anon represent the lonely disagreement and is quickly hounded off. Amazing that this really best represents the US secular movement.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10495

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Myers can go fuck himself, for all I care. The fat clown is not even funny anymore. Pathetic would be a better qualification.

KiwiInOz
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Posts: 5425
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10496

Post by KiwiInOz »

screwtape wrote:snip

Strange things happen when you have people attending universities who don't really belong there:
...the objective of this paper is to demonstrate that the evidence-based movement
in the health sciences is outrageously exclusionary and dangerously normative with regards
to scientific knowledge. As such, we assert that the evidence-based movement in health
sciences constitutes a good example of microfascism at play in the contemporary scientific arena.
Holy fuck. I did my MSc at Auckland Uni. This pomo SJW bullshit is infesting everything.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10497

Post by Aneris »

Pretty good clickbait.
Reddit Users Were Asked To Sum Up Their First Sexual Experience With A GIF. The Responses Were Magnificent (SFW)
http://tagroom.com/uncategorised/reddit ... icent-sfw/

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10498

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Aneris wrote:Pretty good clickbait.
Reddit Users Were Asked To Sum Up Their First Sexual Experience With A GIF. The Responses Were Magnificent (SFW)
http://tagroom.com/uncategorised/reddit ... icent-sfw/
That...that was magnificent!

Kirbmarc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10499

Post by Kirbmarc »

Keating wrote:Let's start the betting pool for how injured Phil will be when we next year from him.

I'm guessing mauled by a mole.
http://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/m ... injury.jpg

katamari Damassi
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Posts: 5429
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#10500

Post by katamari Damassi »

John Greg wrote:Tigzy said:
... Jackson made good choices in what he left out from the books.


I think I am pretty much in agreement with you about what Jackson left out of the movies.

On the other hand, the unnecessary, time wasting, story deluting, charcater assassinating shit that he put in is egregious and unforgiveable.
Really? I wanted at least an hour of Tom Bombadill. I'm still hoping Jackson can turn that one chapter into 2 movies.

Locked