The Refuge of the Toads

#10621

I think, given everything else they are up to, giving each other a Patreon reach-around is too trivial to make a fuss about.

#10622

Shatterface wrote:I think, given everything else they are up to, giving each other a Patreon reach-around is too trivial to make a fuss about.

What can I say? It was a slow night and I hadn't yet found out that Jenny McDermott had cancer.

#10623

Brive1987 wrote:That's Matts "but my scam only involves a few dollars" defence tweet.

Ask Diilihnty: what $$ threshold would make his behavior unethical?

#10624

Liesmith wrote:This seems like completely overblown nonsense.

IMO, it's worse. It's an accusation based on extremely weak evidence. There are plenty of reasons for reciprocal support that are not nefarious. Rule them out and get back to me, would be my response.

#10625

The Patreon mutual support thing is pretty much the same as when a group of authors exchange flattering puffs for each other. Is it morally questionable? Well yeah, but only mildly so. Most of us expect it to happen and consider it no big deal. Likewise with the Patreon thing. That said, it's useful information to have if the likes of Dillahunty ever start moralfagging about people he doesn't like doing the same thing.

#10626

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:That's Matts "but my scam only involves a few dollars" defence tweet.

Ask Diilihnty: what $$ threshold would make his behavior unethical?

Galen is an...interesting character. Anyone in the flightsim community circa 1998-2001 will know of him. Do some googling.

#10627

VickyCaramel wrote:If the vicar primed the collection plate with a £50 note, does he need to say to each and every person, "You should put in £50 because that is what everybody else is doing" in order to be unethical? He can take advantage of human nature without spelling out what he is doing.

Except there's no social peer pressure whatsoever to support someone via patreon, which is the main reason that sort of stuff is unethical. It's not like you have the local community gossip-hags prying over your shoulders when you're sitting at your computer checking out someone's patreon page...

I just don't see the problem with this. The whole idea that they gain something really tangible by inflating their donation numbers by supporting each other seems extremely stretched...

#10628

I'm not accusing anyone of anything in regards to patreon.

I just think it better to have more info rather than less - both in the products themselves and to the users reasons for using these services. For instance is it for income support? (long term or short), or is is for a particular project?

In fact it might be good for a consumer advocate such as 'Which' magazine (if not 'Skeptic' - ha! ) to do a comparison of the crowdfunding products out there (Kickstarter vs Patreon etc etc).

And if there are trends and statistics concerning people using the service - why shouldn't anyone who is interested examine them further? If transparency and clarity of purpose is good enough for a regular charity, I don't see how they could hurt here.

But no fuss, no bother, and I'm not gong to stop anyone spending their money however they want.

#10629

acathode wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:If the vicar primed the collection plate with a £50 note, does he need to say to each and every person, "You should put in £50 because that is what everybody else is doing" in order to be unethical? He can take advantage of human nature without spelling out what he is doing.
Except there's no social peer pressure whatsoever to support someone via patreon, which is the main reason that sort of stuff is unethical. It's not like you have the local community gossip-hags prying over your shoulders when you're sitting at your computer checking out someone's patreon page...

I just don't see the problem with this. The whole idea that they gain something really tangible by inflating their donation numbers by supporting each other seems extremely stretched...

Exactly but I will go even further. I don't think people really check out patreon pages. I think the decision to support someone is made before they ever go to the page. The decision is made after hearing a public speak, or a youtube video or a blogpost.

That is why I am saying it should be easy enough to check. People would be commenting on their patron number. "If you liked this video, join Aron Ra and my other 478 patrons supporting me on Patreon!" There should be multiple examples of something like this that can be posted for all of us to see.

#10630

VickyCaramel wrote:
Shatterface wrote:I think, given everything else they are up to, giving each other a Patreon reach-around is too trivial to make a fuss about.
What can I say? It was a slow night and I hadn't yet found out that Jenny McDermott had cancer.

So Jenny's gone from generating rumours to growing tumors. Oh well.

Forgive my heartlessness. But it is only a basal cell carcinoma.

Can basal cell carcinomas be cured?

Yes, basal cell carcinomas can be cured in almost every case, although treatment becomes complicated if they have been neglected for a very long time, or if they are in an awkward place - such as near the eye, nose or ear. Seldom, if ever, do they spread to other parts of the body.

http://www.britishskinfoundation.org.uk ... inoma.aspx

Anyways, here's Jennay using it to get some digs in at Thunderfoot:

[youtube]PE_r5e-wF4s[/youtube]

Girl is sick, but probably not in the way she thinks.

#10631

Cnutella wrote:
comhcinc wrote:So the claim is different people are supporting each other on patreon as a way to "prime the pump" and this is unethical. Let's set aside the ethics for a moment and look at the actual claim itself.

If this is true it should be stupidly easy to prove. Please present either audio or video evidence of one of the people accused asking for money based off the amount of people already supporting them.
I don't think it's unethical, or even incestuous - it's a lot like social media in that there are reciprocal relationships between people who know each other in RL.

It is just virtue signalling and always has been. Look at me, look at me, I support this noble person. Aren't I (a true believer) wonderful.

#10632

feathers wrote:Or perhaps Brianne of Tart.

I'll always think of Brianna Wu as "Loretta".

brianna_wu.jpg: (38.16 KiB) Downloaded 257 times

#10633

Tigzy wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Shatterface wrote:I think, given everything else they are up to, giving each other a Patreon reach-around is too trivial to make a fuss about.
What can I say? It was a slow night and I hadn't yet found out that Jenny McDermott had cancer.
So Jenny's gone from generating rumours to growing tumors. Oh well.

Forgive my heartlessness. But it is only a basal cell carcinoma.

Can basal cell carcinomas be cured?

Yes, basal cell carcinomas can be cured in almost every case, although treatment becomes complicated if they have been neglected for a very long time, or if they are in an awkward place - such as near the eye, nose or ear. Seldom, if ever, do they spread to other parts of the body.
http://www.britishskinfoundation.org.uk ... inoma.aspx

Anyways, here's Jennay using it to get some digs in at Thunderfoot:

[youtube]PE_r5e-wF4s[/youtube]

Girl is sick, but probably not in the way she thinks.

Sickening to watch. I'm vaguely sorry for her, because I would wish this only on very few people, but there seems to be no redeeming quality in her personality. A narcissist to the very core.

Guest_0048cc29 · #10634

[youtube]NFxiZjayyZg[/youtube]

#10635

VickyCaramel wrote:
comhcinc wrote:No, you are missing the point. I never said anything about the money exchanged.

I said show me the proof. Show me video of Ra saying I should support him on patreon because of all the other people who are supporting him.

When making accusations proof is needed. Once that happens I will be happy to discuss if it's ethical or not.
But that is not the accusation being made against them....

Standard comh debating tactics -- uproot your goalposts, replant them somewhere else, then claim you haven't proven your (sic) point.

You're wasting your breath, Vickie.

#10636

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Cnutella wrote:
comhcinc wrote:So the claim is different people are supporting each other on patreon as a way to "prime the pump" and this is unethical. Let's set aside the ethics for a moment and look at the actual claim itself.

If this is true it should be stupidly easy to prove. Please present either audio or video evidence of one of the people accused asking for money based off the amount of people already supporting them.
I don't think it's unethical, or even incestuous - it's a lot like social media in that there are reciprocal relationships between people who know each other in RL.
It is just virtue signalling and always has been. Look at me, look at me, I support this noble person. Aren't I (a true believer) wonderful.

I think that's pretty much exactly it. Imagine the corollary: all these folks paying lip service to each other, but skimping on financial support. They'd be called hypocrites for not putting their money where their mouth is

#10637

At one level, the Patreon Circle-Jerk is just a bunch of slackers supporting each other's lame aspirations to make a living out of panhandling. But it's also undoubtedly a conscious effort to inflate the apparent popularity of the several Patreoners, so as to generate more contributions from the outside world. Call this "guerrilla marketing" if you will, but it is, at heart, disingenuous. It's also pathetic.

#10638

comhcinc wrote:But you did give her $ at one point right?

Keep this on the back channel, you'll queer brives deal.

#10639

acathode wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:If the vicar primed the collection plate with a £50 note, does he need to say to each and every person, "You should put in £50 because that is what everybody else is doing" in order to be unethical? He can take advantage of human nature without spelling out what he is doing.
Except there's no social peer pressure whatsoever to support someone via patreon, which is the main reason that sort of stuff is unethical. It's not like you have the local community gossip-hags prying over your shoulders when you're sitting at your computer checking out someone's patreon page...

I just don't see the problem with this. The whole idea that they gain something really tangible by inflating their donation numbers by supporting each other seems extremely stretched...

I have actually changed my mind about this whole thing. I don't think this is about them priming the pump, it is something else.

You say there is no social pressure on Patreon? Maybe not for normal people, but the Social Justice clique is all about social pressure and virtue signalling.

Seth asked me if it were so unbelievable that friends would want to support each other. Well it is idiotic for friends who know each other in meat space to be passing around five dollars on patreon, paying commission and tax on it. It is fucking idiotic when Seth could give them a shout-out on his podcast. If he can shill for razors and cookies, he can shill for Matt and Aron.

It is probably more likely that the "Patreon reach around" is a bonding exercise that's part of SJW culture. It probably replaces virtual hugs which can be triggering.

#10640

If rooting at the information or cause of this Paetron circlejerk makes Dillahunty squirm, how bad can it be? It might not be unetical, but it is ridiculous. Like grade school children exchanging paper Valentine's day cards.

#10641

Eskarina wrote:Sickening to watch. I'm vaguely sorry for her, because I would wish this only on very few people, but there seems to be no redeeming quality in her personality. A narcissist to the very core.

I was upset by the video because it provided evidence for the Just World Hypothesis.

#10642

VickyCaramel wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:That's Matts "but my scam only involves a few dollars" defence tweet.

I am damn sure that if Darrel Ray were explaining to him the effect of filling the pews or passing around a collection plate which had already been primed with $10 bills, he would get it right off the bat. He is being deliberately obtuse.

Matt has a history with being intentionally obtuse. It's a default defense mechanism.(you can almost hear the abacus beads in his head clacking)

#10643

If nothing else, this whole Patreon Portal ( I'm so sick of "gate" it's not Latin for scandal) is causing at least a minimum of pandemonium. :popcorn:

And that's what really matters.

#10644

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:If rooting at the information or cause of this Paetron circlejerk makes Dillahunty squirm, how bad can it be? It might not be unetical, but it is ridiculous. Like grade school children exchanging paper Valentine's day cards.

:nin:

#10645

Spike13 wrote:If nothing else, this whole Patreon Portal ( I'm so sick of "gate" it's not Latin for scandal) is causing at least a minimum of pandemonium. :popcorn:

And that's what really matters.

The press went nuts with that after Watergategate.

#10646

Mr. X, Indeed wrote:
Spike13 wrote:If nothing else, this whole Patreon Portal ( I'm so sick of "gate" it's not Latin for scandal) is causing at least a minimum of pandemonium. :popcorn:

And that's what really matters.
The press went nuts with that after Watergategate.

I know, there was some early hope when Arabscam came about, but no,the press ran right back to " gate" afterwards.

It was over forty years ago.... Let it go.

#10647

Ape+lust wrote:Spy magazine (blessed be their memory) used to run a feature called Logrolling in Our Time, which like Brive has done, detailed the mutual backscratching through jacket blurbs among book authors. You'd give Carrier a "Tour de force!" and your next book would sport an "I frothed!" from you-know-who. What made it amusing was just how incestuous it actually was, with the same few dozen sluts working it hard and often enough to fill a monthly column.

Spy's Logrolling was the first thing I thought of too-- and I'm happy to see you were into Spy. Your art belongs on a Spy cover.

The second thing I thought of-- was a Grateful Dead parking lot... where the same dollar is traded for pot, then beads, then acid, then lentil soup, then pot again, then used to buy a bootleg bumper sticker, then pot, then rolling papers, then a tie-dye... then concert tickets. The dollar swirls around the bowl, but eventually goes down the band's drain.

'Marxist Anthropology' doesn't get lost in communist mumbo-jumbo, but it does follow the money. The fishermen divvy up the the fish, repay the net-weaver, feed their wives & children, tithe the shaman, etc.

Great work, Skep & Brive.

#10648

Spike13 wrote:
Mr. X, Indeed wrote:
Spike13 wrote:If nothing else, this whole Patreon Portal ( I'm so sick of "gate" it's not Latin for scandal) is causing at least a minimum of pandemonium. :popcorn:

And that's what really matters.
The press went nuts with that after Watergategate.

I know, there was some early hope when Arabscam came about, but no,the press ran right back to " gate" afterwards.

It was over forty years ago.... Let it go.

It's so old it must be suffering from Watergout.

#10649

By now I'm beginning to expect -gate to entrench itself in the language until nobody remembers its origin any more.

#10650

Spike13 wrote:
Mr. X, Indeed wrote:
Spike13 wrote:If nothing else, this whole Patreon Portal ( I'm so sick of "gate" it's not Latin for scandal) is causing at least a minimum of pandemonium. :popcorn:

And that's what really matters.
The press went nuts with that after Watergategate.

I know, there was some early hope when Arabscam came about, but no,the press ran right back to " gate" afterwards.

It was over forty years ago.... Let it go.

I'd forgotten Abscam. All that grainy surveillance footage of bribery on the news. Good times.

#10651

I don't know if it is a symptom of the boredom of waiting for the SJW's to do some thing stupid or our resident Pyte' detectives are just that anal.

Regardless, this is a prime example of why those folks(and anyone trying to pull off a scam) fear and loath this place. Their asses are going to get fact checked by some bright and dogged investigators.

If there is nothing there, well, we still have fun.

#10652

Yes, the seventies were the high point of federal corruption investigations and real investigative journalism.

#10653

Who's Google[bot] ?

And why do they never comment? :roll:

#10654

Raep Culture:

Man Arrested for Allegedly Breaking into Coworker’s House and Raping Dog

A Wisconsin man has been accused of breaking into his coworker’s house. He was found by the coworker’s daughter, naked from the waist down with his pelvic area pressed against her dog, allegedly having raped the animal.

Daniel Reinsvold, 44, was discovered straddling the dog, named Cooper, in the basement of the home, according to WISC-TV.

Reinsvold allegedly told the daughter that he was retrieving something he had dropped; the dog retreated into its kennel. He has been charged with “intentional mistreatment of an animal, trespassing, and disorderly conduct.”

This past January in Miami, Jesus Ramon Sanchez, 37, allegedly tried to rape a pit bull in a dog park; the dog, Sparky, ripped off Sanchez’s genitals. One witness said:

The dog was just running around, playing with a ball, when the man came out of nowhere and tried to grab it. The man had his pants down and was struggling with the dog. Everyone in the park was just stunned and nobody did anything, but the dog defended itself and bit back. In a matter of seconds, he grabbed the man’s genitals with its teeth and literally tore them apart.
Reinsvold and Sanchez have company; in 2013, Christopher Alexander Caceres, 22, of San Pedro, CA, was arrested and charged with drugging and raping a dog multiple times.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... aping-dog/

#10655

Cnutella wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Skeps patreon work from December 2015 - any mistakes (of which I am sure there are none) are me stuffing up the lines.

http://i.imgur.com/d79a5Ko.png
It's interesting to me that two of the most narcissistic people on there (Wu and Carrier) donate to no one at all and get no reciprocal love.

Also, despite all of professions of intersectionality, this all-star collection remains pretty white. We knew this from the conferences but it's interesting to see that when money is on the table, it's still friends and colleagues uber alles. Other than Bridget, Hermant and possibly also Miri, there's not much in the way of diversity. It's possible that some of them may be giving to racial minorities who don't show up on this chart.

So what's the up-page/down-page thing?

The spelling issues were just to prove that Skep wasn't doing this drawing and therefore wasn't responsible if meaningful issues appeared distorting her data. Luckily none are apparent.

The dotted lines are simply a cue for which way they are moving - without the need to jump to start or finish to look for the arrowhead.

#10656

Spike13 wrote:Who's Google[bot] ?

Steersman's significant other.

Spike13 wrote:And why do they never comment? :roll:

Because there are not enough kittens in the world.

#10657

VickyCaramel wrote:
Shatterface wrote:I think, given everything else they are up to, giving each other a Patreon reach-around is too trivial to make a fuss about.
What can I say? It was a slow night and I hadn't yet found out that Jenny McDermott had cancer.

It's been a rollercoaster for Jenny lately. She loses her waitress job, gets hired as a bank manager and now gets cancer. Hopefully the next episode is a sudden cure and a new pair of Fluevogs. :pray:

#10658

Brive1987 wrote:Skeps patreon work from December 2015 - any mistakes (of which I am sure there are none) are me stuffing up the lines.

http://i.imgur.com/d79a5Ko.png

Looks like a circuit board for trans-sisters.

#10659

Shatterface wrote:Raep Culture:

Man Arrested for Allegedly Breaking into Coworker’s House and Raping Dog

A Wisconsin man has been accused of breaking into his coworker’s house. He was found by the coworker’s daughter, naked from the waist down with his pelvic area pressed against her dog, allegedly having raped the animal.

So this American (oil worker) is in Siberia in a bar after work and is told that to be considered a real man, he must drink two liters of Russian potato vodka, wrestle a Russian bear, and then rape a Russian woman. He drinks the vodka and stumbles out into the night. After a few hours, he returns, covered in scratches, and says: "OK, so where's this woman I'm supposed to wrestle?"

#10660

The patreon thing, (both the null transactions and the virtual hug fest) are just additional data points illuminating the tribal cult family status of the SJW.

It's like discovering the baboon troop will eat each other's shit out of group solidarity - as well as their own out of habit. Not surprising, but interesting all the same.

I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist seeing or lambasting a major conspiracy.

#10661

Brive1987 wrote:The patreon thing, (both the null transactions and the virtual hug fest) are just additional data points illuminating the tribal cult family status of the SJW.

It's like discovering the baboon troop will eat each other's shit out of group solidarity - as well as their own out of habit. Not surprising, but interesting all the same.

I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist seeing or lambasting a major conspiracy.

I wonder how many "OMG! These people are sooooo pathetic!!11!!" messages this has spawned.

#10662

First new bog appears. But leads nowhere. Well done sirs.

http://i.imgur.com/8kqOmf3.jpg

Please be Nerd.

#10663

Btw "bog" is entirely appropriate.

#10664

free thoughtpolice wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote:
Shatterface wrote:I think, given everything else they are up to, giving each other a Patreon reach-around is too trivial to make a fuss about.
What can I say? It was a slow night and I hadn't yet found out that Jenny McDermott had cancer.
It's been a rollercoaster for Jenny lately. She loses her waitress job, gets hired as a bank manager and now gets cancer. Hopefully the next episode is a sudden cure and a new pair of Fluevogs. :pray:

The treatment for basal cell carcinoma is generally the same as treatment for a wart - some anesthetic is applied to the area and the top layers of skin are killed using liquid nitrogen and scraped off. I had one on my ear last year.
If you were to get any 'cancer', that's the one you should wish for.

#10665

Brive1987 wrote:First new bog appears. But leads nowhere. Well done sirs.

http://i.imgur.com/8kqOmf3.jpg

Please be Nerd.

http://newfrontiersbloggers.blogspot.com/

Guest_725f0149 · #10666

Basal cell carcinoma is fuck all. I've had two removed over the last few years. Sun damage caused years ago. It's just a rodent ulcer. The first time I was treated a guy walked into the room with a liquid nitrogen gun, asked where it was. I pointed it out, he zapped it and told me I could go. I didn't even need an elastoplast. The whole thing took about ten seconds. The second one a couple of years later was a bit bigger, so it was a local anesthetic, a quick cut and four stitches.
That bitch is full of shit

#10667

I'm not convinced you can roofie a dog.

This is based on my experience of trying to get one to swallow a worming tablet, not attempting dog-rape.

#10668

What is the skinny on this #thetriggering?

Saw Pizzy was bloviating about it.

#10669

Shatterface wrote:I'm not convinced you can roofie a dog.
.

Quote-mining gold.

#10670

Spike13 wrote:What is the skinny on this #thetriggering?

Saw Pizzy was bloviating about it.

TheTriggering is a hashtag-based activist campaign launched by Canadian conservative political commentator Lauren Southern to challenge the contemporary values of political correctness and the radical faction within the social justice movement by sharing provocative message that would be deemed as triggers for the aforementioned group in defense of free speech on March 9th and 10th, 2016.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/thetriggering

#10671

SJ aside. Why PZ could never moderate the Pit.

http://i.imgur.com/HB5bFPP.jpg

#10672

Brive1987 wrote:
Spike13 wrote:What is the skinny on this #thetriggering?

Saw Pizzy was bloviating about it.

TheTriggering is a hashtag-based activist campaign launched by Canadian conservative political commentator Lauren Southern to challenge the contemporary values of political correctness and the radical faction within the social justice movement by sharing provocative message that would be deemed as triggers for the aforementioned group in defense of free speech on March 9th and 10th, 2016.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/thetriggering

And Mykeru is banned from Twatter... It must have been torture for him.

#10673

Shatterface wrote:I'm not convinced you can roofie a dog.

This is based on my experience of trying to get one to swallow a worming tablet, not attempting dog-rape.

You tried sticking the pill in ~~your~~ a wiener?

#10674

I'm just a little suspicious that the media takes dogs at their word about being spiked. How do we know this isn't just regret talking? Is it really rape if they were wagging their tails?

#10675

Brive1987 wrote:First new bog appears. But leads nowhere. Well done sirs.

http://i.imgur.com/8kqOmf3.jpg

Please be Nerd.

There's some irony that the first new FTB blog is called New Frontiers, yet goes nowhere.

#10676

Keith Emerson has died, at age 71. One of my favorite keyboardists. Not sure what his ailment was, but I believe he had some alcohol issues in the past.

#10677

The lackadaisical response to Anita Sarkeesian's new Patreon fund suggests that a lot of the Patreon funding isn't just virtue-signaling but may be more about getting back at perceived agressors. I've been wondering why Becky continues to do comparatively well when she continually fails to meet deadlines and just phones in vdeos that only highlight her continued slide into irrelevancy.

Some people fund victim blogs to right a perceived injustice but I think a lot of people do it because they see it as striking a blow against a larger group that pisses them off.

#10678

Welch said:

I'm far more pissed over leaving out the scouring of the shire, which showed that even in destroying the ring, the entire adventure was a failure.

Indeed. I'd forgotten about that. Leaving that out was a sin. So to speak.

#10679

Shatterface wrote:I'm just a little suspicious that the media takes dogs at their word about being spiked. How do we know this isn't just regret talking? Is it really rape if they were wagging their tails?

Ask Skatje.

#10680

U.S. soldiers lectured on the dangers of 'white privilege'

Yes yes I know.