The Refuge of the Toads

[deLurch]

I don't want to take time to try to answer questions about the Baha'i Faith, apart from the community building I'll be discussing in The Bottomless Pit.

Just out of curiosity, are you talking about a "community building" that is already built, as in a physical structure with walls and a roof? Or are you talking about organizing a group of 9+ people to meet every 9 days at someone's house for food and discussion of important writings?

[Guest_27324df6]

The few jews that were still living in the rest of the middle-east are almost completely gone now. Very, very few left. Not genocided, just ethnically cleansed, although that's a strong word. Accurate in some cases, but mostly just immigration to Israel giving it's policy on "repatriation" of ethnic jews and the incentives provided. Western europe is on the same path.
From what I can tell from here in France, the hatred the average muslim has for jews is openly admitted. There have been quite a few times muslims I would otherwise consider completely moderate, barely muslims even, as much as the average french person is a catholic, go on the most insanely racist rant about jews and think nothing of it, stuff on the level of the protocols of the elders of zion conspiracy, way way out there shit. It's fucking bizarre. I've seen fucking preteens loudly saying this sort of shit in metros and buses. It could be considered business as usual if it was some random schizophrenic homeless person, as heartless as that sounds, but this is clearly something deeply imbedded in the current muslim cultural consciousness.

[Billie from Ockham]

I'm prepared to argue civilly with someone about Israeli human rights abuses but fuck that shit when it comes to people who want Israel wiped from the map or anyone who thinks it is populated entirely by US or European Jews. Jewish immigrants from Arab countries will not be welcomed back.

There are at least two meanings of "Israel should be wiped from the map." Most of the time, this is aimed at the Jews who live there ... as in: they should be killed. In this case, I agree with your "fuck that shit" reaction. But sometimes the statement is only aimed at the State of Israel ... the idea that members of a specific religion should be given a country and a handful of "get out of jail free" cards to go with it. In this case, I agree with the person who says "Israel should be wiped from the map."

[Guest_27324df6]

I don't see much difference between those two outcomes. Ultimately it means the same thing. There will be no compromise from either side, or only token ones meant to satisfy an audience. At least that's been the case, and I don't see anything changing.

[deLurch]

Im still convinced that he pissed in his prayer-leader's shoes and coming here is his penance. Hes not allowed to leave until he converts at least two.

Nope. You have to have 9 in a local area so you can meet at someone's house (aka The Universal House of Justice) every 19 days.

[VickyCaramel]

I can just judge them by their propaganda and the proportion of people who openly adhere to it. I've yet to see Israeli cartoons teaching children that their destiny is to genocide the palestinians as god ordains or palestinian politicians and public figures encouraging individual israelis to randomely stab their "enemies" then praising them as heroes when it happens, dozens and dozens of times over. The settlers and the extremely orthodox are the nearest equivalent and they are compartively just a small part of Israel. You must be working under the typical modern first world delusion that just because someone is weak and the underdog that it somehow bestows an inherent moral highground and excuses the worst of their atrocities.

So you missed all the Zionist propaganda which says that there is no such thing as a Palestinian, that Israel was a land without a people for a people without a land, and that the Arab dogs only came to Israel to stop the Jews from having it. Or maybe the modern version which says that there is no such thing as a Palestinian because there is no such thing as Palestine, and these Arabs are just an infestation of vermin in the land that god gave to the jews.

Rather than working under any modern first world delusions which is what you seem to be doing, my view of the situation starts in 1945 when my Grandfather was stationed there with 6th Airborne Division, hunting down Jewish terrorists, cutting down the Palestinian children that had been crucified with barbed wire by settlers. It also comes from human rights work and supporting journalists for a good few years during the Second Intafada, Part of what I did was fact checking the official statements put out by the IDF... I am not sure I ever found a fact in any of them.

By action and by word Israel is by far the more moral and responsable party, and I don't understand how anyone can see it otherwise.

You don't understand because it is likely your entire knowledge of the situation is based on Israeli propaganda.

Have this one on me.

[youtube]nh7OQePS07w[/youtube]
[youtube]FQlR3Y2jXIw[/youtube]

Source: http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/videos

[Billie from Ockham]

Nope. You have to have 9 in a local area so you can meet at someone's house (aka The Universal House of Justice) every 19 days.

The last time I heard someone said something about gathering a certain number of people who follow a certain religion, a male baby lost a few grams of skin from a very sensitive place. No thanks.

[paddybrown]

Also I don't think that a Palestinian revolution would be a good outcome, especially for Palestinians Christians and Druze population, as the Islamists forces would very likely be the ones with the funding and the connection to take over the country and turn into yet another Muslim theocracy.

Some would say they've already done that, as far as the Palestinian state is concerned.

Yeah. Especially in the Gaza strip. Which is one of the reasons why I find it really, really hard to "side" with the Palestinians, even though I'm no fan of Israel, either.

Gaza is, at this point, more or less insoluble. Some kind of accommodation is possible in the West Bank, but Gaza is essentially a large open-air prison, its inmates are too alienated for any relaxing of the guard to be possible, and the longer it goes on the worse it will get. Just about the only solution I can imagine is some kind of dispersed resettlement programme overseen by the UN, but you'd need a lot of countries to participate, otherwise you'd just be relocating a large alienated population from one place to another.

[Dave]

I'm betting on a combination of option 1 and 3 and on a recrudescence of the agony. Option 2 just doesn't seem realistic, especially since Israel enjoys a large support in the US.

It will be interesting to see what happens to that support in the future. While I doubt it will disappear, depending on what occurs with the Republican party in the near term, that support could change materially.

Support for Israel used to be a primarily Dem issue, as american jews almost universally identified as Dems. However, the Dems also have to pander to their SJWs set, who are fairly pro-palestinian, and while there are still a number of hard-line zionists, the majority of american jews seems to have a more nuanced support for Israel these days.

In short, most of the hardline, Israel under all circumstances, support comes from the evangelical wing of the GOP these days. Since that is one of the cornerstones of the GOP base, this translates to GOP policy across the board. Having said that, Trump's candidacy seems to have the potential to blow up the coalition that makes up the modern GOP. IF (that this is a big IF) there is a reconfigurment that leaves the evangelical wing in the cold, or the evangelical wing strikes out on their own, then you will likely see US support for Israel to moderate substantially. Its not going to go away, but there will likely be much more pressure put on Israel to behave in the furtherance of US interest than the current tail wagging the dog.

[Billie from Ockham]

By the way, we might soon have a new acronym to deal with: FLILF.

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imageca ... nia_ad.png

[Billie from Ockham]

Oh, and sympathies to all Canadians on the loss of Rob Ford. That's about 50% of all comedy north of the border being taken away.

[Guest_27324df6]

I don't understand the gigantic arguement about the girls fighting. The answer to why it's commendable, in the eyes of some people at least, is because the one commiting the violent act is a PoC, and thus lower(higher?) on the totem pole of victimhood. If this was about a taller, stronger, fatter white girl beating the shit out of a black girl cause she got called a white bitch or cracker or the usual racist shit angry black bitches sling at white girls as a matter of course, the discussion would be about how she's a racist and her actions are abhorent.

About the completely unsurprising terrorist attack, should just quarantine the entire Molenbeek neighborhood then burn it to the ground. And then hang this piece of shit for treason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Moureaux.

Nah, i'd still feel the same. Don't see how many buttons you can push unless you're able to deal with all the consequences, including the very inconvenient ones. The color issue makes it newsworthy for some values of that. The punchee thought that because she was (evidently literally) on home turf, the puncher wouldn't actually do anything. Her pose shows she has no expectation whatsoever that anything can go wrong.

Her expectations were unrealistic.

Again, the "was the puncher right to hit her argument", while interesting (and I do actually think she was wrong in that, but not in the LOCK HER UP FOREVER way. Jesus people, perspective) has nothing to do with reality.

Technically, pedestrians always have the right of way. Cars must always stop for you. Especially in crosswalks. However, if you just walk your ass out in the road, even in a crosswalk without looking, you are going to get hit by a car or larger, and probably killed. Not always, one can survive such things. Even multiple times. But that is luck. Your "rights" do not account for bad drivers, drunk drivers, or physics. Reality says you walk out into a street like a dumbass, you're getting creamed. Maybe don't do that.

I feel fairly sure saying some (prob most) westerners would not feel comfortable at all with a white person exacting violence against a black person because they felt their race or people or skin colour was being verbally attacked. Especially not to the point where celebrating it seems like a fantastic idea. Fair play to you, and I completely agree that it is exactly the same situation, I just don't think most people do.

[Pitchguest]

Much less risk of it than this one:

[youtube]isfn4OxCPQs[/youtube]

PIledriver into concrete? That kid missed paralyzation by luck. And honestly, again, he begged for it. Start shit up with someone that much bigger than you, assuming they're too much of a pussy to do anything about it. Oops, guessed wrong.

In that video, I'm a lot more sympathetic to the bigger kid beating up the other kid. Because the other kid started beating on him. Still, he only lost it for a second, and he didn't have a posse backing him up. He was the one bullied.

In the video where the girl beats up the other girl, it's a completely different situation, and it's someone getting up someone else's face for saying a word they didn't like, whilst also being much taller and much bigger. Boo fucking hoo. And then of course you have people on Twitter cheering her on and Orbiters like Niki M who wants to shake her hand, because using words is difficult and this is commendable. Is that what reality is now?

Did you grow up in, and still live in some kind of fucking box? Where you can talk shit to people and say things to them specifically designed to get them mad enough to take a swing at you and nothing ever happens? Where humans don't get mad or don't have whatever issues you may not know about, and everyone is basically a peach-colored smurf?

Growing up I was the tiny, weak kid that everyone picked on. I was relentlessly bullied. I guess I just didn't grow up to be resentful. Also, I didn't grow up in a shithole.

I got mad, I took swings, I got beat up. The reason I think like I do is because I didn't grow up in a "fucking box."

It doesn't matter what kind of world you *want*. You have to live in THIS one, and in THIS one, learning to keep your fucking mouth shut in certain situations is a pretty goddamned useful survival skill. Literally.

They're kids. They're stupid kids doing stupid kid things. What are you talking about "survival skills"? None of it should be encouraged, welch, for crying out loud.

[MarcusAu]

By the way, we might soon have a new acronym to deal with: FLILF.

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imageca ... nia_ad.png

Too soon - we just lost Nancy Reagan.

[H. Korban]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic". There is no such thing, and this obsession with minute change in language shows an interesting psychological trait, even here, in that it indicates a singular lack of will to actually understand the problem. Let me put it this way: there is no difference between politics and personal in Islam. Absolutely none. The Quran as well as the prophetic hadith makes it 100% clear that Islam is both a religious as well as a political ideology. Unless we understand this our policies will continue to fail. Second, what people also fail to understand, specially in the US political establishment, is that the very people we support, i.e. Saudi Arabia, is truly the cesspool in which this filth festers, is funded and trained. The Salafi/Wahabbi/Takfiri trioka of evil is the state ideology in Saudi Arabia. The so-called royal family of Saud continues to support and protect the extremist preachers, not only within its borders, but everywhere across the world. There is hardly a Sunni mosque anywhere in the world which does not get money or materials from Saudi Arabia. Absurdly, our beloved leaders all love the Sauds!

I also find it difficult to understand this self-hatred which Western liberals feel for their own way of life. They support open border immigration policies, with no vetting or oversight, allowing tens of thousands of people infected with dangerous ideology to come into our borders. It seems like we have developed an almost suicidal lust for our own self-destruction.

The only real option at this point is to severely curtail immigration from Muslim countries, and subject those who enter to careful scrutiny. Its one thing to bring in high-skilled people into the nation, and another to let every illiterate religious fanatic enter. To think that one can reform out the extremism from Salafi/Wahabbi/Takfiri ideology is laughably absurd and naive. Its not going to happen. These things are very deeply rooted in the Sunni culture and can not be removed. Its impossible. In any case, Western liberals actually do not believe in any values any more, rather cling to this ridiculous post-modern concept that "everyones culture is equally valid and deserving of respect". It boggles the mind.

Incidentally, even in such a far-flung place like Seattle, I fear for my and my children's safety. There are too many Muslim immigrants, mostly from Somalia, who do not wish to integrate into the larger culture. For example, my daughter is in kindergarten, and when I go to drop her off, I see little girls, even as young as 5 wearing head-to-toe condoms called the "hijab". I am sure the fathers of these girls look at my daughter and think she is a slut, whore and what not. These people will never integrate. Yet, Seattle loves these immigrants! Its totally crazy how absurd this is: the poor white liberal, drinking $4 Starbucks Lattes thinks that these head-to-toe condom wearning children and their parents are just like them, wanting the same things and having the same lovey-dovey liberal attitudes as them! Its unbelievable.

[Za-zen]

I have a lot of interest in some of the social issues I see people discussing here, but the kinds of discussion that would interest me the most, and possibly keep me coming back, would be to encourage and support each other in our efforts to help reduce and counteract their harmful effects, and to help build a better world, for the benefit of all people, grounded in systematic and sustained efforts to improve our own character and conduct, and in service to our communities.

[blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...]

Yeah, we get it. You have the one true solution that will guide us towards all the improvements that YOU feel we should strive towards.

Holy fuck, buddy, are you ever in the wrong place! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

First off, we're like 99%, if not 100%, atheists here. We think your imaginary friend is imaginary, even if you do put a po-mo metaphorical spin on it. Secondly, your attitude is really condescending. You have come here to show us all your righteous path in life, and that means you think we are all on the wrong path. Sure, you think you are being kind to share your oh-so true path with us, and to save us, but think about that. You are saying that we are on the wrong path. It doesn't matter that you avoid bad words when insulting people in that manner, it's still fucked up and koran-thumpy.

I mean, what the fuck? Are you really hoping to recruit here? If, however, you really want to discuss it, and you're not just here to recruit us, then how about discussing the actual, specific beliefs of your version of islam? I have a few questions:

Does your offshoot branch of islam have the same aversion to pigs and dogs that other muslims have?

Does your offshoot branch of islam believe that some religious crimes should be punished by death (eg: blasphemy, gay sex, unmarried sex if female)?

Does your offshoot branch of islam still mutilate baby's penises like the other branches of islam? Does your type of islam ever practice FGM?

Does your offshoot branch of islam require the veiling of females?

Does your offshoot branch of islam practice arranged marriages?

Does your offshoot branch of islam believe that religious laws should be the law of the land?

Does your offshoot branch of islam believe that your god split the moon and then put it back together again?

Does your offshoot branch of islam have a holy book, like the koran or some version of it?

Does your offshoot branch of islam promote the killing of unbelievers?

Does your offshoot branch of islam require any specific type of praying or other rituals whereby you reassure your god that he's a really great guy and that you really, really, love him cuz he's so great and stuff?[/ :twatson: quote]

Nailed it Scented. But let him build slymepit+. It's been a while since we had a woo woo retard around with his brain fart enlightenment to laugh at.

On another point. Nuke fucking Mecca #killthemall

[Za-zen]

Quote fail

[Za-zen]

By the way, we might soon have a new acronym to deal with: FLILF.

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imageca ... nia_ad.png

Too soon - we just lost Nancy Reagan.

Wonder if he has her on a retainer, or is on a night to night arrangement.

[Dave]

By the way, we might soon have a new acronym to deal with: FLILF.

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imageca ... nia_ad.png

Too soon - we just lost Nancy Reagan.

Wonder if he has her on a retainer, or is on a night to night arrangement.

She is under contract.

[Oglebart]

By the way, we might soon have a new acronym to deal with: FLILF.

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imageca ... nia_ad.png

Too soon - we just lost Nancy Reagan.

Wonder if he has her on a retainer, or is on a night to night arrangement.

To borrow from Mrs Merton, when interviewing Paul Daniels'(RIP) wife and assistant Debbie McGee,

"What first attracted you to the multi-millionaire Donald Trump?"

[deLurch]

So what are your cult's views on divorce, homosexuality and sex before marriage?

I don't want to take time to try to answer questions about the Baha'i Faith, apart from the community building I'll be discussing in The Bottomless Pit.

All, since jimhabegger said it would take a day or two for him to create his first thread, and already told us what his first post was going to be, I went ahead and saved him some time by creating the thread for him! That way we don't have to wait for him to answer questions.

So here it is:
The "God-centered community building" / "Jim's closet" / "Support group for self-improvement and community service" Thread!

[Dave]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic".

I get your point that under the Quran there is not separation between the political and the personal. However, not everyone takes everything written in their holy book to heart. (Which, Ill grant you does cause me to wonder why they then consider it a holy book, but thats not an issue of islam, but of any religion.) But here in the US, we run across many muslims who are not particularly faithful, not particularly wedded to any ideology, and aside from the fact that they call their poobah an imam rather than a priest, minister or rabbi, and their holidays are more difficult to pronounce, seem just like any other Tom, Saul or Harry. Perhaps you would argue that such people should not be considered islamic at all, but the word certainly seems to apply, so we use Islamist to distinguish the die-hards from the fair-weather guys.

Alternatively, perhaps you would suggest that I am fooling myself and since the personal is the political, that when push comes to shove they will surprise me with their leanings. I suppose nothing is certain in this wicked old world, but there are some Ive gotten to know well enough that Im very confident of my understanding of them. And my understanding is that they consider themselves islamic in the same way the some of my relatives consider themselves jewish or christian. Its a link to their cultural heritage, nothing more. The word islamist allows us to criticize those that take it all too seriously, while allowing my friends to maintain self-identification they desire for cultural reasons.

[VickyCaramel]

Allow me to be skeptical about the "Palestinian tradition" being able to keep the Islamists at bay. Syria had a tradition of being a multicultural state and the revolution against Assad contributed to the birth of ISIS. Salafite groups are already infiltrating the Gaza strip, and Hamas (the strongest force fighting for the Palestinian revolution these days) is not too different from many other Islamist organizations, like the Muslim Brotherhood, and its goal is Muslim supremacy (albeit, let's be clear, in less radical way than ISIS).

I'm not saying that Palestine could turn into ISIS land, but I also don't think that it would be a nice play for non-Muslims to live in, and that Christian Palestinians will get shafted, along with the Druze. The Druze especially are in favor of Israel and are prominent in their military and political establishment. I don't think that they would fare well under a Hamas government.
.

When Hamas came to power, they were walking on eggshells, they were promising that all religions would be respected, and like the PLO, they would represent all Palestinian people. They went on a charm offensive, and they had help from Israel to get into power. Of course now they are in, and the IDF keeps killing their leaders that are sane and competent, the loonies can take over.

They are not the strongest force against Israel, they are just the most wreckless, the PLO's armed wings have a much better understanding of how their actions look internationally.

As for ISIS, I expect them to be history by the time anything major happens in Palestine. Either extremist Islam will have fallen out of fashion again or it will split into ever more extreme factions which will be dispersed or fighting each other.

Most of the Muslims I have ever met have wanted more western style freedom, not less. But in order to bring about change, especially when things have been trundling along in the same direction for decades, then it is time to get behind a Trump or a Sanders.... or the Muslim Brotherhood.

[H. Korban]

So what are your cult's views on divorce, homosexuality and sex before marriage?

I don't want to take time to try to answer questions about the Baha'i Faith, apart from the community building I'll be discussing in The Bottomless Pit.

If you'd like to see some of the views that are being promoted by Baha'i institutions at the national and international levels, you can try http://www.bahai.org, http://www.bahai.us, or the Baha'i Web site for whatever country interests you. There's also the Web site of the agency that represents the Baha'is at the UN: http://www.bic.org.

Honestly, I think jimhabegger is off his meds. Thats the only explanation of his mad idea to think the Slymepit of all places is a good forum to talk about "god based community building".

As to Baha'is. They are about as anti-intellectual, homophobic and traditional as anyone else. As I said, and jimhabegger continues to ignore, Bahaulla was a megalomaniac, with strange ideas of being the savior for all mankind. All the while, he was busy killing of his opponents, supporting the monarchy and opposing reforms in Iran. His successors were no different, always at the forefront of supporting dictators, colonialists and unable to take a stance again apartheid. Also, please, please jimhabegger, can you tell us why your megalomaniac founder, Bahaulla and his successors have put a prohibition to teach "the faith" to Israelis?

Baha'is are a crazy cult. There is no way around that. As usual, common Baha'is are clueless idiots living in a fantasy land of "world harmony", "world peace" etc. All the while, their Universal House of "Justice" is simple another theocratic totalitarian organization which has no problems colluding with tyrants and thugs.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

So what are your cult's views on divorce, homosexuality and sex before marriage?

I don't want to take time to try to answer questions about the Baha'i Faith, apart from the community building I'll be discussing in The Bottomless Pit.

All, since jimhabegger said it would take a day or two for him to create his first thread, and already told us what his first post was going to be, I went ahead and saved him some time by creating the thread for him! That way we don't have to wait for him to answer questions.

So here it is:
The "God-centered community building" / "Jim's closet" / "Support group for self-improvement and community service" Thread!

That was thoughtful, thanks. He was seemingly a bit waffley about getting it going.

[Cunning Punt]

I didn't say Trump was behind it. I said any Islamist terrorist attack in a Western country (Turkey doesn't count) between now and November guarantees a Trump presidency. Doesn't matter what the reason is.

Belgium, huh? I wonder if this is a big enough attack to fit my theory. My expectation is that a major Islamist terrorist attack guarantees a Trump presidency. I'm certain there'll be another one between now and November, even if this one doesn't do the trick.

The fact the bombing was at the American Airlines desk is probably going to mean it gets plenty of US news coverage.

The implication of your language is clearly that this was somehow expected or even planned in order to gain some sort of political advantage. What is the "trick" that this might not accomplish? Why are you so eager to take away the accomplishments of these fine young muslim men, having fulfilled their highest goals in life, and lay it at the feet of some shadowy cabal of cynical conspirators orchestrating events for the benefit of Trump of all fucking people?

He's not, you fucking idiot. I read into his remarks nothing hinting at a false flag operation or any other conspiratorial bullshit. He just said it would aid Trump's campaign, based on paranoia and racism as it is. He didn't say Trump made it happen. And get a fucking account.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Woo.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Woo.

Hoo

[Billie from Ockham]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic".

Because we sometimes need a noun.

[jet_lagg]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic". There is no such thing, and this obsession with minute change in language shows an interesting psychological trait, even here, in that it indicates a singular lack of will to actually understand the problem. <snip>

It's in the same spirit as distinguishing between "evangelical" and "Christian". It mitigates the alienation people will feel when we criticize them as a group, and I don't think it indicates a lack of will to understand the problem. You're coming at this with the perspective the culture and the religious beliefs are forever entwined. I'm of the opinion that the siren call of bacon cheeseburgers and internet porn is more than capable of separating the two. Secular Christians the world over demonstrate humanity is nothing short of brilliant when it comes to dealing with cognitive dissonance. There's no reason to believe Muslims aren't capable of holding their magical beliefs in some abstract sense while enjoying and supporting everything secular democracy has to offer.

[Kirbmarc]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic". There is no such thing, and this obsession with minute change in language shows an interesting psychological trait, even here, in that it indicates a singular lack of will to actually understand the problem. Let me put it this way: there is no difference between politics and personal in Islam. Absolutely none. The Quran as well as the prophetic hadith makes it 100% clear that Islam is both a religious as well as a political ideology. Unless we understand this our policies will continue to fail. Second, what people also fail to understand, specially in the US political establishment, is that the very people we support, i.e. Saudi Arabia, is truly the cesspool in which this filth festers, is funded and trained. The Salafi/Wahabbi/Takfiri trioka of evil is the state ideology in Saudi Arabia. The so-called royal family of Saud continues to support and protect the extremist preachers, not only within its borders, but everywhere across the world. There is hardly a Sunni mosque anywhere in the world which does not get money or materials from Saudi Arabia. Absurdly, our beloved leaders all love the Sauds!

I also find it difficult to understand this self-hatred which Western liberals feel for their own way of life. They support open border immigration policies, with no vetting or oversight, allowing tens of thousands of people infected with dangerous ideology to come into our borders. It seems like we have developed an almost suicidal lust for our own self-destruction.

The only real option at this point is to severely curtail immigration from Muslim countries, and subject those who enter to careful scrutiny. Its one thing to bring in high-skilled people into the nation, and another to let every illiterate religious fanatic enter. To think that one can reform out the extremism from Salafi/Wahabbi/Takfiri ideology is laughably absurd and naive. Its not going to happen. These things are very deeply rooted in the Sunni culture and can not be removed. Its impossible. In any case, Western liberals actually do not believe in any values any more, rather cling to this ridiculous post-modern concept that "everyones culture is equally valid and deserving of respect". It boggles the mind.

Incidentally, even in such a far-flung place like Seattle, I fear for my and my children's safety. There are too many Muslim immigrants, mostly from Somalia, who do not wish to integrate into the larger culture. For example, my daughter is in kindergarten, and when I go to drop her off, I see little girls, even as young as 5 wearing head-to-toe condoms called the "hijab". I am sure the fathers of these girls look at my daughter and think she is a slut, whore and what not. These people will never integrate. Yet, Seattle loves these immigrants! Its totally crazy how absurd this is: the poor white liberal, drinking $4 Starbucks Lattes thinks that these head-to-toe condom wearning children and their parents are just like them, wanting the same things and having the same lovey-dovey liberal attitudes as them! Its unbelievable.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially about Saudi Arabia, truly one of the worst, if not the absolute worst, enemy of freedom (and this is why the Saudi money flow should be stopped). I also agree that vetting immigrants is necessary, as are limits on immigration.

For the "latte liberals", the only thing I can think about is that they're blinded by their po-mo quasi-Marxist ideology, as you say, which is about destroying secular liberal institutions in the name of "fighting Patriarchy" (the windmill du jour of the Left). There are some principles which are the basis of secular liberal democracy (separation of church and state, freedom of opinion, freedom of religion, etc.) which are non-negotiable. If you don't accept those principles you shouldn't receive public funding, or be allowed to have private courts or private schools.

The only things which are discussed by a certain person which I think is a) highly illiberal and incompatible with the principles I wrote above and b) idiotic and counterproductive are Steersman's "deport all Muslims unless they pass an arbitrary test" and "ban Islam" plans.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Again, how common is the one hit death? Because you keep talking about it like every time there's any impact to the skull, you run some large chance of it just cracking like an egg, and yet, no one can come up with the actual PERCENTAGES O'DOOOM

And if you're trying to make it sound like I am completely dismissing the chances, *AGAIN* i'm not. I'm just saying that you're overstating the fuck out of them.

Golly gee, how exactly would you get that sort of data? You would need to know all sorts of virtually unknowable data. But, as has been pointed out, it is not that uncommon. At what point does risking somebody's life become worth it to you? But hey, as a bonus it's not just death.
https://student.societyforscience.org/a ... ay-harm-iq
It really didn't seem to me that either of those girls had much to spare in the IQ department. There is a lot of unquantifable damage done, period. It should be discouraged, even to the point of incarceration.

And stop being such an asshole. It doesn't help make your point.

[deLurch]

Honestly, I think jimhabegger is off his meds. Thats the only explanation of his mad idea to think the Slymepit of all places is a good forum to talk about "god based community building".

From the light skimming I have done on the internet, his activities seem to fit in with the baha'i faith.
Small religion 1-5 million depending on who you ask. Heavy into the recruitment stage. Standard system was to send one person into town, recruit 9 new members to establish a new core membership group, then that guy skips off to the next town trying to repeat that process.

"Entry by Troops. Entry by Troops. Entry by Troops."
http://bahai-library.com/compilation_pr ... try_troops
https://archive.is/0fIZe

It is not surprising that in the internet age, they are trying to take advantage of the new medium in order to recruit. And why not try to recruit atheists? They probably have a piss poor recruitment rate as it is. Mormons & Jehavah Witnesses knock on nearly every door if you want them to do so or not.

3.3 Strategic, flexible teaching plans

The Universal House of Justice calls upon each National Spiritual Assembly to "balance its resources and harmonize its efforts" to ensure that the Faith is taught to "all sections of society".[58] It advises the Assemblies to be strategic and systematic, to tailor their teaching plans to meet the needs of particular social and cultural groups,[59] since "different cultures and types of people require different methods of approach",[60] and it states that the aim of all Bahá'í institutions and Bahá'í teachers is "to advance continually to new areas and strata of society".[61]

The House of Justice draws attention to the importance of flexibility and balance in the formulation and implementation of teaching plans. The believers are encouraged to be open to new methods,[62] to use a variety of approaches,[63] and "not blindly insist upon doing the same thing everywhere".[64] The Universal House of Justice indicates that the Bahá'í community
"... must become more adept at accommodating a wide range of actions without losing concentration on the primary objectives of teaching, namely, expansion and consolidation."
And to this end, it stresses the need for
"... a unity in diversity of actions ..., a condition in which different individuals will concentrate on different activities, appreciating the salutary effect of the aggregate on the growth and development of the Faith, because each person cannot do everything and all persons cannot do the same thing."[65]
The importance of the adoption by the believers of a strategic and flexible approach to the work of the Cause is linked by the Universal House of Justice both to the growing maturity of the Bahá'í community and to its expansion.[66]

So promoting the idea that references to "God" is just symbolic, is a method of adjusting the teachings so that it might somehow be more palatable to self defined atheists. I don't see it as much different that declaring all sorts of past holy men such as Jesus, Moses, Mohamed & Buddha as manifestations of god in order to ease different religious groups into their faith.

Recruiter comes in. Gets his nine. Sets up a local structure, and then leaves it to the larger organization to do clean up teaching-adjustment to the new recruits once they are in.

[Kirbmarc]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic". There is no such thing, and this obsession with minute change in language shows an interesting psychological trait, even here, in that it indicates a singular lack of will to actually understand the problem. <snip>

It's in the same spirit as distinguishing between "evangelical" and "Christian". It mitigates the alienation people will feel when we criticize them as a group, and I don't think it indicates a lack of will to understand the problem. You're coming at this with the perspective the culture and the religious beliefs are forever entwined. I'm of the opinion that the siren call of bacon cheeseburgers and internet porn is more than capable of separating the two. Secular Christians the world over demonstrate humanity is nothing short of brilliant when it comes to dealing with cognitive dissonance. There's no reason to believe Muslims aren't capable of holding their magical beliefs in some abstract sense while enjoying and supporting everything secular democracy has to offer.

They enjoy those things (I've known many Muslisms who drink alcohol, watch porn and eat pork), but then they feel dirty and guilty and they are under the control of their clergy and of the more "perfect" Muslims.

Organized religions function like scams. They create a list of rules which are deliberately incredibly hard (if not downright impossible) to follow and then control people through guilt and shame when they fail to follow them. The Catholic Church has used the power of guilt for centuries, and it's only losing some of its power right now.

That's why I think that we should stop thinking negatively about " the corruption of the West". In the context of Islam, the "corruption of the West" aren't the "sins" (promiscuous sex, drinking alcohol, eating pork, watching porn, etc.) Those "sins" are committed by many Muslims (more or less in secret). The "corruption" is the freedom not to follow the rules of Islam without being socially (or legally) punished.

The concept of corruption in Islam is just like the SJWs concept of "misogyny" or "X-phobia": a useful tool for the control of society.

[feathers]

She is under contract.

Part of an arms deal with Slovenia.

[jet_lagg]

jimhabegger, if that really is why you are here, recruitment, you couldn't have chosen a worse forum. True, we mostly debate whatever comes up on a given day and laugh at SJWs, but everyone here is coming from a hard stance atheist/skeptic background. We're not just the sort of people who casually disbelieve. We're actively hostile to the idea. If you can find a person here who doesn't believe religion is an actual threat to our species, I'd be shocked.

[H. Korban]

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic".

I get your point that under the Quran there is not separation between the political and the personal. However, not everyone takes everything written in their holy book to heart. (Which, Ill grant you does cause me to wonder why they then consider it a holy book, but thats not an issue of islam, but of any religion.) But here in the US, we run across many muslims who are not particularly faithful, not particularly wedded to any ideology, and aside from the fact that they call their poobah an imam rather than a priest, minister or rabbi, and their holidays are more difficult to pronounce, seem just like any other Tom, Saul or Harry. Perhaps you would argue that such people should not be considered islamic at all, but the word certainly seems to apply, so we use Islamist to distinguish the die-hards from the fair-weather guys.

Alternatively, perhaps you would suggest that I am fooling myself and since the personal is the political, that when push comes to shove they will surprise me with their leanings. I suppose nothing is certain in this wicked old world, but there are some Ive gotten to know well enough that Im very confident of my understanding of them. And my understanding is that they consider themselves islamic in the same way the some of my relatives consider themselves jewish or christian. Its a link to their cultural heritage, nothing more. The word islamist allows us to criticize those that take it all too seriously, while allowing my friends to maintain self-identification they desire for cultural reasons.

You need to distinguish between the various forms of Islam. The ISIS, al Qaeda and every other terror organization is essentially based on the very specific ideology of Salafi/Wahabbi forms of Islam. These are highly virulent ideologies. For most of history these people had no power, even though they caused local trouble. However, with the advent of Saudi Arabia this has changed. Wahabbism is the state religion on Saudi Arabia. Using their wealth they have spread this dangerous ideology to every part of the world. Not all Muslims are Wahabbis. However, one has to remember that the larger Sunni populations (of which Wahabbis are a sub-set) is highly susceptible to their propaganda.

In contrast, one should realize that Shi'a Islam is the opposite. Due to historical differences going on for 1400 years, there is great hatred between Sunnis and Shia's. The Shia's absolutely detest the Wahabbi/Salafis and hence are immune from these monsters. Its true that after the Iranian Islamic revolution there has been a rise in conservative Shi'a clergy, but even they do not advocate the type of terrorism and territorial expansion we see among ISIS. Their conservatism is very much along the lines of maintaining traditions. Also, I should point out that Shi'a Islam has an inherent anti-authoritarianism built into it, for the simple historical reason of continued persecution, and, the most singular event of the martyrdom of the prophet's grandson, Hussain. Also, mystical elements have thrived among the Shi'as, leading to periodic efflorescence of charismatic groups like the Sufis, the Ismailis etc. which are very liberal, with interpretations of the Quran which center on devotional love for god, and for their fellow humans.

A good start would be to normalize relations with Iran and impose severe sanctions on Saudi Arabia. Its time we understood the real source the problems, i.e. the House of Saud (May all the pox and curses of humanity be on them and their followers).

Now, I would not trust any Muslim neighbors, specially Sunnis. This is simply a precaution one needs to take. Specially if you see any form of say full-body hijab (not just some head-scarf or something symbolic like that) on the women, one should be very careful. Let me assure you I have lived through some awful Hindu-Muslim riots in India. People who appear normal and friendly, under the influence of religious madness had no compunction in killing their neighbors, burning their property and raping their women. Honestly, I do not want to see this in the US. I rather err on the side of caution.

[screwtape]

Oh, and sympathies to all Canadians on the loss of Rob Ford. That's about 50% of all comedy north of the border being taken away.

Thanks for the thought, but that sympathy really isn't needed by the general population. If he hadn't died of cancer, the next best place for him would have been in jail. Toronto city politics is like a honeypot for attracting politicians that have less than exemplary motivations for their enthusiasm. All the same, it doesn't begin to compare to the culture of institutionalised corruption that makes Montreal so entertaining. They have no shame about it; it is expected.

When I want some Canadian comedy, I can always return to this:

[youtube]7-G6Db2-9z4[/youtube]

[John D]

This looks like an opportunity for us. Let's pool our money together and buy this. I think we may be able to Jew the guy down a bit to get a better price. (I know we can't afford a Tiger tank, so this may be the next best thing).

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/milita ... rs4x4.html

[deLurch]

The most popular scapegoats and targets for demonizing here seem to be SJW's, and I was tempted to come out as one, myself, but ... wait. Did I just do that?

Jim, from what little I know of you, you do not appear to be a SJW. There is a huge difference between people who work towards Social Justice (or promote their faith) and those that try to get others fired for publicly disagreeing with them, or seek out to put out ruinous slanders against an individual who does not agree with their ideology & try to pass off those slanders to that person's friends and families in order to make their life harder.

Maybe you do such activities. But from what you have stated in this forum so far, that does not appear to be something you would agree with doing.

[Kirbmarc]

How Western intellectuals have become enemies of liberal writers from Muslim backgrounds

[deLurch]

If you can find a person here who doesn't believe religion is an actual threat to our species, I'd be shocked.

I don't believe religion intrinsically is a threat to our species.

[Kirbmarc]

If you can find a person here who doesn't believe religion is an actual threat to our species, I'd be shocked.

I don't believe religion intrinsically is a threat to our species.

I believe that religion is a threat to our species when it's given any amount of political or social power.

Private metaphysical speculations about the nature of reality or morality are largely harmless, just like astrology as a private hobby is largely harmless.

[jet_lagg]

If you can find a person here who doesn't believe religion is an actual threat to our species, I'd be shocked.

I don't believe religion intrinsically is a threat to our species.

Hmmm. Good thing I didn't put any money down. I suppose I could just resort to no true scotsman ;)

[deLurch]

This looks like an opportunity for us. Let's pool our money together and buy this. I think we may be able to Jew the guy down a bit to get a better price. (I know we can't afford a Tiger tank, so this may be the next best thing).

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/milita ... rs4x4.html

What on earth would we do with the thing? Historical pieces are meant to be displayed, but any attempt to display that car would most likely be met with attempts to destroy it. Maybe a WWII war museum, but public museums might not want to take the PR risk on their reputation. Maybe a holocaust museum might be able to handle it, but that is about it. Beyond that, the only other hope is a private collection for a WWII buff. I personally am not interested in buying something that cannot be viewed and will collect dust.

[d4m10n]

Any Londeners hereabouts?

[deLurch]

If you can find a person here who doesn't believe religion is an actual threat to our species, I'd be shocked.

I don't believe religion intrinsically is a threat to our species.

Hmmm. Good thing I didn't put any money down. I suppose I could just resort to no true scotsman ;)

Lucky for you I am not a Scotsman... I think.

[comhcinc]

Can we please quit calling the new wacko "jim"? It's confusing. Please stick with the name that was agreed on. Shithead.

Thanks.

[John D]

This looks like an opportunity for us. Let's pool our money together and buy this. I think we may be able to Jew the guy down a bit to get a better price. (I know we can't afford a Tiger tank, so this may be the next best thing).

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/milita ... rs4x4.html

What on earth would we do with the thing? Historical pieces are meant to be displayed, but any attempt to display that car would most likely be met with attempts to destroy it. Maybe a WWII war museum, but public museums might not want to take the PR risk on their reputation. Maybe a holocaust museum might be able to handle it, but that is about it. Beyond that, the only other hope is a private collection for a WWII buff. I personally am not interested in buying something that cannot be viewed and will collect dust.

Yea... I agree... what I really want is a Tiger tank. :P

[d4m10n]

*Londoners (fuck)

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

This looks like an opportunity for us. Let's pool our money together and buy this. I think we may be able to Jew the guy down a bit to get a better price. (I know we can't afford a Tiger tank, so this may be the next best thing).

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/milita ... rs4x4.html

What on earth would we do with the thing? Historical pieces are meant to be displayed, but any attempt to display that car would most likely be met with attempts to destroy it. Maybe a WWII war museum, but public museums might not want to take the PR risk on their reputation. Maybe a holocaust museum might be able to handle it, but that is about it. Beyond that, the only other hope is a private collection for a WWII buff. I personally am not interested in buying something that cannot be viewed and will collect dust.

[youtube]41imMO7XpFg[/youtube]

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

This looks like an opportunity for us. Let's pool our money together and buy this. I think we may be able to Jew the guy down a bit to get a better price. (I know we can't afford a Tiger tank, so this may be the next best thing).

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/milita ... rs4x4.html

What on earth would we do with the thing? Historical pieces are meant to be displayed, but any attempt to display that car would most likely be met with attempts to destroy it. Maybe a WWII war museum, but public museums might not want to take the PR risk on their reputation. Maybe a holocaust museum might be able to handle it, but that is about it. Beyond that, the only other hope is a private collection for a WWII buff. I personally am not interested in buying something that cannot be viewed and will collect dust.

Yea... I agree... what I really want is a Tiger tank. :P

You're in the automotive industry. Buy American!

http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/view_ ... 8808&cat=1

[Git]

Was reading the pit on my phone earlier whilst having a shit, and I wasn't logged in. Seeing the same old masturbatory hate-filled shite from VickyCaramel (blocked when logged in) wasn't pretty.

People like her will *always* come up with reasons to justify their judenhass

[img]

maher.jpg

(75.56 KiB) Downloaded 203 times

[/img]

The difference this time however is that Jews can and do defend themselves. And have learned to be good at it.

[Cunning Punt]

Oh look, Git's back. Who'd have thought.

[Dave]

Your original point.

I am not sure why people use the word "Islamist" instead of "Islamic".

You need to distinguish between the various forms of Islam. The ISIS, al Qaeda and every other terror organization is essentially based on the very specific ideology of Salafi/Wahabbi forms of Islam. These are highly virulent ideologies. For most of history these people had no power, even though they caused local trouble. However, with the advent of Saudi Arabia this has changed. Wahabbism is the state religion on Saudi Arabia. Using their wealth they have spread this dangerous ideology to every part of the world. Not all Muslims are Wahabbis. However, one has to remember that the larger Sunni populations (of which Wahabbis are a sub-set) is highly susceptible to their propaganda.

In contrast, one should realize that Shi'a Islam is the opposite. Due to historical differences going on for 1400 years, there is great hatred between Sunnis and Shia's. The Shia's absolutely detest the Wahabbi/Salafis and hence are immune from these monsters. Its true that after the Iranian Islamic revolution there has been a rise in conservative Shi'a clergy, but even they do not advocate the type of terrorism and territorial expansion we see among ISIS. Their conservatism is very much along the lines of maintaining traditions. Also, I should point out that Shi'a Islam has an inherent anti-authoritarianism built into it, for the simple historical reason of continued persecution, and, the most singular event of the martyrdom of the prophet's grandson, Hussain. Also, mystical elements have thrived among the Shi'as, leading to periodic efflorescence of charismatic groups like the Sufis, the Ismailis etc. which are very liberal, with interpretations of the Quran which center on devotional love for god, and for their fellow humans.

While I am not quite as sanguine about Iranian Shia's beneficial tendencies, despite, or perhaps because of, close friendships with several of Persian descent, I think the fact that you, yourself are drawing a distinction between bad muslims and the, if not good, at least not as terrible ones, shows the need to lexically differentiate. I suppose if one draws the line as you have, there is little need for additional terms, Shia and Sunni will suffice. However, those of my friends and family who have experienced life under the Ayatollahs may choose to draw the line elsewhere, and for them an additional term is useful.

A good start would be to normalize relations with Iran and impose severe sanctions on Saudi Arabia. Its time we understood the real source the problems, i.e. the House of Saud (May all the pox and curses of humanity be on them and their followers).

I would agree with you that normalizing relations with Iran would be a good thing, as would be at least a cooling of our relationship with Saudi Arabia, my expectations of such occurring are low. The US political leadership has invested far too much capital in the idea that the House of Saud is our one good friend in the neighborhood. If their ties to the 9/11 hijackers was not sufficient, I cant think of what else could make that change quickly.

Now, I would not trust any Muslim neighbors, specially Sunnis. This is simply a precaution one needs to take. Specially if you see any form of say full-body hijab (not just some head-scarf or something symbolic like that) on the women, one should be very careful. Let me assure you I have lived through some awful Hindu-Muslim riots in India. People who appear normal and friendly, under the influence of religious madness had no compunction in killing their neighbors, burning their property and raping their women. Honestly, I do not want to see this in the US. I rather err on the side of caution.

Oh, I treat anyone with religious mandated clothing very skeptically. I mean a small cross/star/whatever is one thing, but if you find your religious beliefs that intrusive that you have to hold yourself out from the rest of society with such clear markers, Imma gonna wonder about you. This includes full-body hijabs of the muslims, the long sleeves and denim skirts of the quiverful, the "plain" clothing of the Amish and even the man-dresses of the catholic leadership. You may be dangerously crazy or just amusingly crazy, but you are definitely crazy and theres a fine line, often crossed, between dangerously and amusingly crazy.

BTW, the other day, I was with my wife when she decided to try on an outfit (OK, seven) at a department store. While my wife was in the changing, a young woman in a full-body condom came in took a couple of outfits into a changing room and then came out and purchased them. I assume she tried them on in there. What amused me was the checkout desk was near where I was sitting and so I saw the items she was purchasing. Most Pop Stars wear less revealing clothing than this. I get that they can wear whatever they want under the condom and in their houses when no un-related men are around, but this struck me as an odd dichotomy.

[free thoughtpolice]

welch wrote:

PIledriver into concrete? That kid missed paralyzation by luck. And honestly, again, he begged for it. Start shit up with someone that much bigger than you, assuming they're too much of a pussy to do anything about it. Oops, guessed wrong.

There are some big differences there. One is resorting to self defence, the other is beating on a non resisting individual.
Are you serious? (or NikiM)
btw, I would have counseled the kid to do differently than the pile driver thing and so should have the people that encouraged him as some type of hero.

LOL. So now it's okay to take an action that actually has a very high risk of long-term or permanent damage.

Let me guess, punching up punches are made of unicorn farts and fairy hugs. It's only those awful punching down punches that suck. That kid was twice the size of the other kid, whatever happened to not beating the shit out of someone who is half your size?

If you're going to be all on the fainting couch over head blows, have some fucking consistency.

ffs. There is a big difference between self defense and running up on someone and assaulting them when they aren't fighting back. Do you understand that or have you come down with Steersman syndrome?
The big kid shouldn't have done the pile driver but ideally found a less dangerous way of defending himself. That's the gist of the last sentence of my other post. Even then, the little kid had his friends with him and had the bigger kid backed up against the wall so it is somewhat understandable.
I know someone that had his life ruined by someone punching the crap out of him. He suffered enough brain damage that he could no longer work, drive a vehicle, and can barely talk. All this because he got drunk and pissed off someone.
My S.O. used to work in mental health and this sort of thing is far from a one in a million thing. Recently as the tools to study the brain have improved it's being shown that head injuries have more long term consequences than previously thought.

[piginthecity]

How badly to you have to piss off your priest/imam/minister/whatever that your penance is to try and convert a bunch of shit-talking atheists?

I don't think that this Jim is here for punishment. More for practice.

Jim's lot (and by this I mean both Bahais and freelance woo-mongers of the "many paths one god" variety) seek to practice the technique of disagreement-by-agreement.

The idea is to say to a rival religionist "Yes, you're absolutely right." Then proceed to explain why everyone else is also "absolutely right" and to leave the poor schmuck to draw the inevitable conclusion that the Bahai (or woo-monger) is the rightiest of all. And that therefore despite being "absolutely right" all the other religions are actually completely wrong.

What Jim is trying to do, is once he's settled on where abouts to start his thread, obtained all the necessary permits, permissions and approvals and crowdsourced the title, is to, within the hallowed halls of the special thread, tell us that we, atheists of the slymepit are all absolutely right and correct and our chosen path is as valid a path to the manifestation of the one true god as any other, and the proof of this is that he, Jim, bestows his seal of approval on us on behalf of Bob McBab of the Baobabs or whoever.

Hence Mission Accomplished !

[Ericb]

Was reading the pit on my phone earlier whilst having a shit, and I wasn't logged in. Seeing the same old masturbatory hate-filled shite from VickyCaramel (blocked when logged in) wasn't pretty.

People like her will *always* come up with reasons to justify their judenhass

[img]

maher.jpg

[/img]

The difference this time however is that Jews can and do defend themselves. And have learned to be good at it.

I was wondering if you had some kind of Bat Phone that sounds the alarm when someone here starts talking about Israel/Palestine.

[comhcinc]

The only thing getting me upset is you people keep calling it a piledriver. It's nothing like a piledriver in anyway.

Stop it please.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

I seem to recall the jimhalfbagger AKA Shithead posted some pretty cunty things in the past and has also cunted about on FfTBs. Perhaps I'm misremembering.