The Refuge of the Toads

Guest_df4fcc85 · #24061

[youtube]f-Gg-z2lKws[/youtube]

Here's an analysis of Milo's vid that I think is pretty astute. (It works well at 2x speed.)

(the author, edindro, seems to feel Milo is 17 yo, I interpreted her comment to that regard meaning she was 22.)

#24062

He started his career with a shit on #gamergate IIRC

#24063

screwtape wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Stubbed my toe on a door frame. No big deal, normally, but the fucker is getting blue and painful. I wouldn't worry much if it weren't for the fact it's my left foot, same side as the hip replacement.

Should I go to emergency tomorrow if it hasn't calmed down? (who am I kidding, of course I have to).
Even if you broke a toe, the treatment, as the Fluffy Bunny has said, is to tape the broken toe to its neighbour and carry on as normal, being brave and not complaining at all about the pain. It heals faster that way, believe me.

AND

Scented Nectar wrote:Trudeau admits in the video below that he hates Alberta and any gov't that's not from Quebec (our French speaking province - many hate English speakers). Free thoughts, including bigotry, are one thing, but he's refused offers to help fight Alberta's current fire problem.
Canadian prime ministers are all about balancing. Balancing between the francophone assholes, who come from Quebec, and the anglophone assholes, who for the last thirty years have come from Alberta. If you balance just right, you get re-elected. He didn't refuse help in the hope that more of Alberta would burn, nor to avoid indebtedness to any other country. The fire was dying down and looked like it was done, but then it did what wildfires often do in hot and windy weather.

I do have the perfect solution. Tell the makers of the F-35 where they can shove their useless boondoggle of a plane. Spend the money saved on waterbombers and firefighters. (We all know only one country might invade us, and we can't begin to afford a military that might defend us against that country.) Fuck the pride and the showing off: spend the money on something useful!

I don't care whether they come from Quebec or elsewhere, but I do care if they are bigoted about it, as the video of Trudeau proves. And they don't have to worry about re-election, since they are pushing through changes to the election system, without letting the public vote on whether or not the change is needed. And the excuses they gave are crazy. They say it should not be voted on due to some groups of people not voting enough. And that twitter responses show people want the change. We are losing our right to democratically vote, which is the first step towards outright communism. Any day now, I expect him to find some need to bring in Chinese troops.

" Liberal MP Maryam Monsef is “spitting on the country that took her in” "
[youtube]yrr7U-hvmz8[/youtube]

#24064

Peez missed one in his culling.

http://i.imgur.com/Fb8ta6w.jpg

Not dead? Neither is this:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... 3z4mBXIO9A

#24065

free thoughtpolice wrote:The idea that we need help from Russia to fight those fires is just ridiculous.
Next door to Alberta is BC, that has top quality resources that are called on to fight fires worldwide.
These fires flamed up quickly, nevertheless have been controlled to the degree that there has been minimal damage to the infrastructure and been no fatalities.
Meanwhile, BC has plenty of resources yet to be called to help, because it isn't really needed.
Rebel Media is full of shit.

Why are they full of shit? They are just the messengers. It doesn't matter that BC has resources, since the gov't in Alberta cancelled waterbomber contracts before the fires, even though they knew it was going to be a bad fire season.

" Notley NDP cancelled water bomber tenders AFTER anticipating “very busy fire season” "
[youtube]a_37u6Vr9_E[/youtube]

#24066

Snip

Scented Nectar wrote: Here's an example of the type of charitable activism she wants more time to be able to do. You'll see below, that it is very important work she's doing and essential for the country. Making a captive audience listen to her sing...

"Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau hijacks MLK Day with weird song"
[youtube]XVBtBl_bXx4[/youtube]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

#24067

Couch wrote:Snip

Scented Nectar wrote: Here's an example of the type of charitable activism she wants more time to be able to do. You'll see below, that it is very important work she's doing and essential for the country. Making a captive audience listen to her sing...

"Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau hijacks MLK Day with weird song"
[youtube]XVBtBl_bXx4[/youtube]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Justin's mom, Margaret Trudeau had a reputation for being rather crazy, so I wonder if Justin has married a younger version of his mother. Although, Margaret has a genuine mental illness, so I would never pick on her for that. If Sophie also has one, I'll stop picking on her too, but I think she's just an embarrassing, grandstanding, attention seeker, so she's fair game for now. :)

#24068

Scented Nectar wrote:
Couch wrote:Snip

Scented Nectar wrote: Here's an example of the type of charitable activism she wants more time to be able to do. You'll see below, that it is very important work she's doing and essential for the country. Making a captive audience listen to her sing...

"Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau hijacks MLK Day with weird song"
[youtube]XVBtBl_bXx4[/youtube]

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Justin's mom, Margaret Trudeau had a reputation for being rather crazy, so I wonder if Justin has married a younger version of his mother. Although, Margaret has a genuine mental illness, so I would never pick on her for that. If Sophie also has one, I'll stop picking on her too, but I think she's just an embarrassing, grandstanding, attention seeker, so she's fair game for now. :)

Everything about this is just so achingly, embarrassingly bad and lacking of any semblance of self-awareness.

#24069

Couch wrote:Everything about this is just so achingly, embarrassingly bad and lacking of any semblance of self-awareness.

You'd think they'd have some honest advisers telling them not to do certain things, but they all must be yes-people and idiots.

#24070

Did I do a semi-Pit-kill? If so, it's my first one (that I know of), but it's only a semi, so I'll try harder next time. :D

#24071

Scented Nectar wrote:Did I do a semi-Pit-kill? If so, it's my first one (that I know of), but it's only a semi, so I'll try harder next time. :D

Google images sucks. I typed in "semi-erect" and got nothing arousing. Not even semi-arousing. I only paged down once though, but if they're not even going to put any good stuff near the top, fuck them. :(

#24072

Everyone is intimidated - I think it's the Elizabeth Taylor violet irises.

#24073

Sssssh. I'm watching Top Gun. Tom is chasing women into bathrooms.

#24074

MarcusAu wrote:Everyone is intimidated - I think it's the Elizabeth Taylor violet irises.

For me, it was her cringeworthy facial expressions of bestowing her gift of song on everyone. :doh:

#24075

Brive1987 wrote:Sssssh. I'm watching Top Gun. Tom is chasing women into bathrooms.

Totally off topic, but Target's worth is down over $6 billion dollars since the whole trans bathroom thing.

#24076

Scented Nectar wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Sssssh. I'm watching Top Gun. Tom is chasing women into bathrooms.
Totally off topic, but Target's worth is down over $6 billion dollars since the whole trans bathroom thing.

That doesn't read right. By off topic, I didn't mean your watching Top Gun. I meant that my mentioning the trans bathroom thing had absolutely nothing to do with your mentioning a guy chasing women into bathrooms. :whistle:

#24077

I have mostly won this page. I'll slow down though now, because if I keep going, I'll be singing made up songs. And then you'll all end up screaming for me to be replaced by Sophie, since I'm that bad of a singer. I am semi-tone-deaf, fully key-deaf, and my sense of rhythm falls out of sync very quickly.

#24078

Scented Nectar wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Brive1987 wrote:Sssssh. I'm watching Top Gun. Tom is chasing women into bathrooms.
Totally off topic, but Target's worth is down over $6 billion dollars since the whole trans bathroom thing.
That doesn't read right. By off topic, I didn't mean your watching Top Gun. I meant that my mentioning the trans bathroom thing had absolutely nothing to do with your mentioning a guy chasing women into bathrooms. :whistle:

The PUA moves from 1986 seem to have aged. Crash and burn Goose.
Still. The scenes from this movie are as familiar as old slippers, just like a rewatch of the one true Star Wars.

"Slider. You stink"
"This is going to be complicated"
"I feel the need ..."
"Jesters dead"

#24079

How about if I post some origami videos?

#24080

I randomly discovered today that the term "polyamory" was invented by a somewhat dubious woo-peddler, going by the lovely name Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_G ... Ravenheart

So I'm not so surprised anymore about Carrier's choice of venue...

#24081

Brive1987 wrote:Sssssh. I'm watching Top Gun. Tom is chasing women into bathrooms.

That's perfectly fine as long as it's the gender-appropriate bathroom. He needs to ask each of those women beforehand.

#24082

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I randomly discovered today that the term "polyamory" was invented by a somewhat dubious woo-peddler, going by the lovely name Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_G ... Ravenheart

So I'm not so surprised anymore about Carrier's choice of venue...

In 1999, the Zell-Ravenhearts moved to Sonoma County, California, where Oberon started the Grey School of Wizardry, which as of 2014 is the world’s only registered wizard academy.[7][9]

Registered?!?

#24083

feathers wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I randomly discovered today that the term "polyamory" was invented by a somewhat dubious woo-peddler, going by the lovely name Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_G ... Ravenheart

So I'm not so surprised anymore about Carrier's choice of venue...

In 1999, the Zell-Ravenhearts moved to Sonoma County, California, where Oberon started the Grey School of Wizardry, which as of 2014 is the world’s only registered wizard academy.[7][9]
Registered?!?

How else will they get their tax free status?

#24084

feathers wrote: Barack Obama is a mafia mobster, plain and simple.

What part of Chicago politics don't you get?

#24085

Scented Nectar wrote:

"Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau hijacks MLK Day with weird song"
[youtube]XVBtBl_bXx4[/youtube]

The Trudeau males appear to live by the saying "Crazy in the head, crazy in bed'

#24086

feathers wrote:
In 1999, the Zell-Ravenhearts moved to Sonoma County, California, where Oberon started the Grey School of Wizardry, which as of 2014 is the world’s only registered wizard academy.[7][9]

Is that the one for male virgins?

#24087

"The Zoolander Prime Minister". Sums it up entirely.

#24088

Spike13 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:NECSS lost Dawkins, but got this crank dipshit instead:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cro ... -war-more/

If that article was any more hipster" I'm too cool for this room", it would have Elton John glasses and ironic facial hair.

Horgan is so bitchy, he sprays glitter when he sneezes.

From the article:

When people like this get together, they become tribal. They pat each other on the back and tell each other how smart they are compared to those outside the tribe. But belonging to a tribe often makes you dumber.

Almost self-aware, but not quite close.

Given the flaws of mainstream medicine, can you blame people for turning to alternative medicine?

Especially if it's the "traditional" ones, I guess.

But the evidence is overwhelming that war was a cultural innovation--like agriculture, religion, or slavery--that emerged less than 12,000 years ago.

There is no such thing. In reality the evidence is overwhelming for in-group morality, out-group hostility. War as an organized, systemic form of inter-group fighting due to out-group hostility and competition for resources may not have a "biological" origin but a socio-technological one (i.e. organization and urbanization lead to organized fighting, a class of full-time warriors and need for resources to feed people who aren't self-producing), but even Horgan reminds us at the beginning of the article that tribalism has psychological bases.

So, just to recap. I’m asking you skeptics to spend less time bashing soft targets like homeopathy and Bigfoot and more time bashing hard targets like multiverses, cancer tests, psychiatric drugs and war, the hardest target of all.

Nobody influential claims that the "multiverse" or "the singularity" are anything more than a hypotheses. Horgan's arguments against cancer tests and psychiatric drugs are borderline woo. And his idea that the "evidence is overwhelming" that "war is a cultural innovation" is based on very, very questionable assumptions.

Horgan is just pushing for very precise political positions by masquerading them as "skepticism".

By the way, read this article about the evolutionary roots of war. It's a huge mess:

Defenders of the Deep Roots Theory have leveled various criticisms at the forager study. [*See Clarification below.] They complain that foragers examined in the study—and modern foragers in general--have been pacified by nearby states. Or the foragers are "isolated," living in remote regions where they rarely come into contact with other groups. In other words, these foraging societies are atypical.

But you could argue that all modern tribal societies are atypical, including those cited by Deep Rooters as evidence for their position. Take, for example, the infamous Yanomamo, an Amazonian society that is extremely warlike, according to anthropologist Napoleon Chagnon, who began observing them in the 1960s.

The Yanomamo practice horticulture, which makes them a poor proxy for nomadic Stone Age hunter gatherers. Atypical. Moreover, even Chagnon acknowledges that some Yanomamo are much violent than others. Of course, Deep Rooters assert that these relatively peaceful Yanomamo are atypical.

When Deep Rooters complain that a society is atypical, they really mean that the society is not as violent as predicted by the Deep Roots theory. They are guilty of egregious confirmation bias, and circular reasoning.

This isn't skepticism. Skepticism would conclude that there is not enough evidence to decide whether the Deep Roots theory is accurate or not, not simply claim "ALL societies are atypical, so you're biased, but I'm not".

. The vast majority of archaeological evidence for warfare—which consists of skeletons marked by violence, art depicting battles, defensive fortifications, and weapons clearly designed for war rather than hunting—is less than 10,000 years old.

What a stupid argument. Horgan is arguing against a strawman version of the Deep Roots theory here: how could a lack of evidence for "art depicting battles" or "defensive fortifications" be a lack of evidence for lack of inter-group violence in hunter-gather societies

TL;DR: Horgan is a gonk.

#24089

feathers wrote:In 1999, the Zell-Ravenhearts moved to Sonoma County, California, where Oberon started the Grey School of Wizardry, which as of 2014 is the world’s only registered wizard academy.[7][9]

That must be the school for male virgins who identify as polyamorous, or else for people of any sex/gender with multiple sex partners who identify as male virgins.

#24090

jimhabegger wrote:
feathers wrote:In 1999, the Zell-Ravenhearts moved to Sonoma County, California, where Oberon started the Grey School of Wizardry, which as of 2014 is the world’s only registered wizard academy.[7][9]
That must be the school for male virgins who identify as polyamorous, or else for people of any sex/gender with multiple sex partners who identify as male virgins.

The former is more likely than the latter.

#24091

That gives me an idea. I didn't think I could register for Wizardchan because it's only for male virgins, but maybe I could fantasize being a virgin while I register, and that would make it okay. In fact, I could tell them that if they don't accept me, they'll be responsible for my suicide.

#24092

Kirbmarc wrote:
jimhabegger wrote:
feathers wrote:In 1999, the Zell-Ravenhearts moved to Sonoma County, California, where Oberon started the Grey School of Wizardry, which as of 2014 is the world’s only registered wizard academy.[7][9]
That must be the school for male virgins who identify as polyamorous, or else for people of any sex/gender with multiple sex partners who identify as male virgins.
The former is more likely than the latter.

All kidding aside, I honestly would not be surprised to find out that there really are such people.

#24093

MarcusAu wrote:Everyone is intimidated - I think it's the Elizabeth Taylor violet irises.

I'd never made the link between Elizabeth Taylor and Drizzt Do'Urden before. Thanks.

#24094

I'd make a guess that the majority of 'polyamorous' people are just virgins keeping all their options open.

#24095

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I randomly discovered today that the term "polyamory" was invented by a somewhat dubious woo-peddler, going by the lovely name Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_G ... Ravenheart

So I'm not so surprised anymore about Carrier's choice of venue...

If you mean California, well:

Q: Why is California like granola?
A: Because, after you take away the fruits and the nuts, all you're left with is the flakes.

Though Morning Glory seems to have gravitated to the hippy/new agey spots in the Pacific Northwest.

OTOH, Carrier is a native southern Californian who recently (not a doxx!) resided in Stockton, CA, a grungy, NorCal, inland port renowned for its industrial blight and rampant crime. There are no white people in Stockton. No one moves there of their own free will, much less independent biblical scholars. (Pasadena, close to the rare books collection of the Huntingdon Library, would make a far better choice.) It's not an easy commute to anywhere -- you either pass quickly through Stockton praying to God to not send you a flat tire, or you pack your kids and your belongings into the '91 Oldsmobile and leave Stockton for good for the relative paradise of Oakland. No one who grosses $42K p/a in a profession that doesn't involve either loading ships or chopping stolen Hondas for parts, has any business living in Stockton.

Of course, there are no good reasons to just up and move to Ohio, either. (Not the stunning scenery, for sure.) One can only surmise that Average Dick chose Stockton to shack up in some low-rent hovel with a free love cluster he met on Craig's List. They have since kicked him out for bogarting all the pearl necklaces, so Dickie is off to the ~~Bukakke~~ Buckeye State to join a new free love cluster he found on Craig's list.

I'm sure Brive could tease out of Carrier, PhD his reason(s) for choosing Stockton & Ohio.

#24096

Brive1987 wrote:The PUA moves from 1986 seem to have aged. Crash and burn Goose.
Still. The scenes from this movie are as familiar as old slippers, just like a rewatch of the one true Star Wars.

"Slider. You stink"
"This is going to be complicated"
"I feel the need ..."
"Jesters dead"

I have to admit that I can't remember for sure whether or not I've seen Top Gun. Canadian Netflix doesn't have it though. I just checked so that I could see the old style pick up / bathroom chase scene. They don't make entertainment like they used to. Oh well. At least there's better special effects these days.

#24097

Kirbmarc wrote:
Spike13 wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:NECSS lost Dawkins, but got this crank dipshit instead:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cro ... -war-more/

If that article was any more hipster" I'm too cool for this room", it would have Elton John glasses and ironic facial hair.

Horgan is so bitchy, he sprays glitter when he sneezes.
From the article:

When people like this get together, they become tribal. They pat each other on the back and tell each other how smart they are compared to those outside the tribe. But belonging to a tribe often makes you dumber.
Almost self-aware, but not quite close.

Given the flaws of mainstream medicine, can you blame people for turning to alternative medicine?
Especially if it's the "traditional" ones, I guess.

But the evidence is overwhelming that war was a cultural innovation--like agriculture, religion, or slavery--that emerged less than 12,000 years ago.
There is no such thing. In reality the evidence is overwhelming for in-group morality, out-group hostility. War as an organized, systemic form of inter-group fighting due to out-group hostility and competition for resources may not have a "biological" origin but a socio-technological one (i.e. organization and urbanization lead to organized fighting, a class of full-time warriors and need for resources to feed people who aren't self-producing), but even Horgan reminds us at the beginning of the article that tribalism has psychological bases.

So, just to recap. I’m asking you skeptics to spend less time bashing soft targets like homeopathy and Bigfoot and more time bashing hard targets like multiverses, cancer tests, psychiatric drugs and war, the hardest target of all.
Nobody influential claims that the "multiverse" or "the singularity" are anything more than a hypotheses. Horgan's arguments against cancer tests and psychiatric drugs are borderline woo. And his idea that the "evidence is overwhelming" that "war is a cultural innovation" is based on very, very questionable assumptions.

Horgan is just pushing for very precise political positions by masquerading them as "skepticism".

By the way, read this article about the evolutionary roots of war. It's a huge mess:

Defenders of the Deep Roots Theory have leveled various criticisms at the forager study. [*See Clarification below.] They complain that foragers examined in the study—and modern foragers in general--have been pacified by nearby states. Or the foragers are "isolated," living in remote regions where they rarely come into contact with other groups. In other words, these foraging societies are atypical.

But you could argue that all modern tribal societies are atypical, including those cited by Deep Rooters as evidence for their position. Take, for example, the infamous Yanomamo, an Amazonian society that is extremely warlike, according to anthropologist Napoleon Chagnon, who began observing them in the 1960s.

The Yanomamo practice horticulture, which makes them a poor proxy for nomadic Stone Age hunter gatherers. Atypical. Moreover, even Chagnon acknowledges that some Yanomamo are much violent than others. Of course, Deep Rooters assert that these relatively peaceful Yanomamo are atypical.

When Deep Rooters complain that a society is atypical, they really mean that the society is not as violent as predicted by the Deep Roots theory. They are guilty of egregious confirmation bias, and circular reasoning.
This isn't skepticism. Skepticism would conclude that there is not enough evidence to decide whether the Deep Roots theory is accurate or not, not simply claim "ALL societies are atypical, so you're biased, but I'm not".

. The vast majority of archaeological evidence for warfare—which consists of skeletons marked by violence, art depicting battles, defensive fortifications, and weapons clearly designed for war rather than hunting—is less than 10,000 years old.
What a stupid argument. Horgan is arguing against a strawman version of the Deep Roots theory here: how could a lack of evidence for "art depicting battles" or "defensive fortifications" be a lack of evidence for lack of inter-group violence in hunter-gather societies

TL;DR: Horgan is a gonk.

Horgan sounds like Damion & Welch's love child.

#24098

More on the "John Horgan is a gonk" topic. Apparently even Steven Novella thinks hat Horgan is a pretentious blunderer.

Steven Novella wrote:
John Horgan wrote:First, physics. For decades, physicists like Stephen Hawking, Brian Greene and Leonard Susskind have touted string and multiverse theories as our deepest descriptions of reality.

Here’s the problem: strings and multiverses can’t be experimentally detected. The theories aren’t falsifiable, which makes them pseudo-scientific, like astrology and Freudian psychoanalysis.
Like most of his claims, this is wrong on multiple levels. First, Hawking and others have not presented string theory and multiuniverse theories as descriptions of reality, but as mathematical models. More to the point, the exact status of these theories has been hotly and deeply debated within physics and skepticism.

Horgan give a very superficial analysis, in my opinion to the point of being wrong. He claims they are not falsifiable, therefore they are pseudoscientific, “Like astrology.” For those of you playing logical fallacy bingo, that is a false analogy. There are many problems with astrology that do not apply to string theory.

The “non-falsifiable” criticism has been raised, numerous times, by skeptics, and the implications of this have been discussed at length. Briefly, it is true that string theory and the multiuniverse theory are not currently testable, and therefore they are not complete sciences unto themselves. But they do attempt to give insights into what the deeper realities of the physical universe might be by exploring mathematical models for internal consistency, the ability to explain what we already know, and elegance.

They will ultimately come to nothing if we cannot find some way to test them, but that does not mean they serve no purpose now. Also, it is a contested point that they are not testable now, but I will leave that to the physicists and another day.

And yet NECSS invited Horgan and disinvited Dawkins simply for retweeting a satire of feminism.

Nice "skepticism", Novella.

#24099

[youtube]oVqW4GzLILM[/youtube]

#24100

But the evidence is overwhelming that war was a cultural innovation--like agriculture, religion, or slavery--that emerged less than 12,000 years ago.

Truthfully, I didn't know what to make of Horgan's comments on war. Even if I accepted that it was a cultural innovation (and I don't, chimps conduct war), it doesn't follow that we could discourage people from engaging in it on those grounds. Modern medicine is a cultural innovation. Should we abandon that? If you want to see the end of war, calling it a social construct strikes me as an ass backwards way of achieving that goal. There's nothing like an analogy to creationism or climate change denialism here. I don't see what Horgan is on about.

#24101

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:

"Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau hijacks MLK Day with weird song"
[youtube]XVBtBl_bXx4[/youtube]

The Trudeau males appear to live by the saying "Crazy in the head, crazy in bed'

Well, at least if he's getting some good sex out of it, maybe I should give the poor guy a break and feel sorry for him instead. It's hard to turn down good sex, and if it's the crazies who are giving it to him, then the crazy part is like an unfortunate side effect. Stuff like this is why people should always give the crazy ones a fake name and if male, rinse out their condoms in the sink right away to prevent "accidental" pregnancies as well as DNA misuse for the purpose of rape kits during false accusations.

#24102

Speaking of identity consumerism, I see that there's already been some discussion of some people being offended by Ian McEwan's remark about "a personal identity supermarket," but I didn't find any mention here of his response to those complaints:
Penis comment was biologically unexceptional

Also, speaking of identity consumerism, I was thinking that it started with ethnic identities and was perfected for political purposes by feminists, but now I realize that it started long before that, with religious denominations.

#24103

Shatterface wrote:I'd make a guess that the majority of 'polyamorous' people are just virgins keeping all their options open.

:lol: You might be right.

#24104

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:"The Zoolander Prime Minister". Sums it up entirely.

Now I have to see it. Luckily, Netflix has this one, so now it's on my list. :)

#24105

Billie from Ockham wrote:[youtube]oVqW4GzLILM[/youtube]

She was nice to let the guy save face in front of his friend at the end and not have to admit he flopped. And, she made the right decision not to have sex with him there - that counter was too narrow, and she would have bumped her head. :lol:

#24106

jet_lagg wrote:I don't see what Horgan is on about.

Kirbmarc's speculation looks plausible to me:

Horgan is just pushing for very precise political positions by masquerading them as "skepticism".

#24107

jet_lagg wrote:
But the evidence is overwhelming that war was a cultural innovation--like agriculture, religion, or slavery--that emerged less than 12,000 years ago.

Truthfully, I didn't know what to make of Horgan's comments on war. Even if I accepted that it was a cultural innovation (and I don't, chimps conduct war), it doesn't follow that we could discourage people from engaging in it on those grounds. Modern medicine is a cultural innovation. Should we abandon that? If you want to see the end of war, calling it a social construct strikes me as an ass backwards way of achieving that goal. There's nothing like an analogy to creationism or climate change denialism here. I don't see what Horgan is on about.

Maybe this 2010 article will help understand Horgan's point better (and to realize how much of a gonk he is):

John Horgan wrote: Warfare is "an invention," Mead concluded, like cooking, marriage, writing, burial of the dead or trial by jury. Once a society becomes exposed to the "idea" of war, it "will sometimes go to war" under certain circumstances. Some people, Mead stated, such as the Pueblo Indians, fight reluctantly to defend themselves against aggressors; others, such as the Plains Indians, sally forth with enthusiasm, because they have elevated martial skills to the highest of manly virtues; fighting bravely is the best way for a young man to achieve prestige and "win his sweetheart's smile of approval."

The original motivations for war's invention may have been those mentioned by Mead: conflicts between different groups over food, fertile land, women and status, perhaps driven by overpopulation. But the question remains why war spread so rapidly around the world after its initial invention. After all, unlike inventions such as cooking, agriculture and writing, which have obvious benefits, war is an extremely risky enterprise.

Mead did not directly address this question, but her successors have. The Robarcheks pointed out that war is in a sense "contagious," because when one group in a region resorts to war, "others must either take it up or be destroyed." Keeley, similarly, noted that war among North American Indians often stemmed from the aggression of just a few extremely warlike tribes, "rotten apples that spoiled their regional barrels." He added, "Less aggressive societies, stimulated by more warlike groups in their vicinity, become more bellicose themselves."

Societies in a violent region, the political scientist Azar Gat emphasized in War in Human Civilization (Oxford University Press, 2006[HARDCOVER]), have a strong incentive to carry out preemptive attacks. Societies may "attack the other side in order to eliminate or severely weaken them as a potential enemy. Indeed, this option only makes the other side more insecure, rendering the security dilemma more acute. War can thus become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The fear of war breeds war."

War, in other words, is a self-perpetuating meme. So how can we end it? Contrary to the claims of her critics, Mead was far from a naive optimist. In "Warfare Is Only an Invention" she asked, "If we know that it is not inevitable, that it is due to historical accident that warfare is one of the ways in which we think of behaving, are we given any hope by that?" Not necessarily, because "once an invention is known and accepted, men do not easily relinquish it." Writing at the dawn of World War II, Mead had good reason to fear that militarism had become too deeply embedded in modern culture to eradicate. "The deeds of our warriors are immortalized in the words of our poets; the toys of our children are modeled upon the weapons of war," she wrote.

For an invention to become obsolete, Mead argued, "people must recognize the defects of the old invention, and someone must make a new one." In this way trial by jury supplanted trial by ordeal or combat, which had come to seem "unfair, capricious, alien." She added that "to invent new forms of behavior which will make war obsolete, it is a first requirement to believe that such an invention is possible."

Only on this point do I disagree with Mead. We already have inventions—notably the United Nations—for resolving conflicts peacefully. We just need to use them instead of resorting to the worst invention of all time: war.

TL;DR: Horgan's idea is that war is a product of the fear of war, and that the UN are the way to get rid of this fear. :lol:

#24108

This interests me because it discusses some issues that I've been thinking about, like the abandonment of class analysis, and alienation of white men, in liberal politics:
Identity Politics & Class Struggle

#24109

John Horgan wrote: Only on this point do I disagree with Mead. We already have inventions—notably the United Nations—for resolving conflicts peacefully. We just need to use them instead of resorting to the worst invention of all time: war.

I... just...

:bjarte:

#24110

Billie from Ockham wrote:[youtube]oVqW4GzLILM[/youtube]

And now we know why she came out as a lesbian.

#24111

jet_lagg wrote:
John Horgan wrote: Only on this point do I disagree with Mead. We already have inventions—notably the United Nations—for resolving conflicts peacefully. We just need to use them instead of resorting to the worst invention of all time: war.
I... just...

:bjarte:

I love how Horgan can claim to be a "skeptic of skepticism" but still believe that the UN will eventually eradicate war, and if they don't work it's just because of the evil frightened warmongers (probably American, as he wrote in the other article, because the US are the biggest threat to world peace).

I wonder if he thinks that "his writing ends all rational debate", too.

#24112

Scented Nectar wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:"The Zoolander Prime Minister". Sums it up entirely.
Now I have to see it. Luckily, Netflix has this one, so now it's on my list. :)

It's a silly laugh.

#24113

screwtape wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:[youtube]oVqW4GzLILM[/youtube]
And now we know why she came out as a lesbian.

Yeah, but what about Kelly McGillis?

#24114

Marcotte's got feminists and liberals gunning for her over apologism for a male HRC supporter beating up a female Bernie bro.

#24115

Kirbmarc wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:
John Horgan wrote: Only on this point do I disagree with Mead. We already have inventions—notably the United Nations—for resolving conflicts peacefully. We just need to use them instead of resorting to the worst invention of all time: war.
I... just...

:bjarte:
I love how Horgan can claim to be a "skeptic of skepticism" but still believe that the UN will eventually eradicate war, and if they don't work it's just because of the evil frightened warmongers (probably American, as he wrote in the other article, because the US are the biggest threat to world peace).

I wonder if he thinks that "his writing ends all rational debate", too.

I used to argue a lot with libertarians but one topic on which we agreed was that the biggest defuser of conflict is economic interdependence.

Needing what someone else has makes you overlook a lot of their antagonism. Just look at Saudi Arabia.

#24116

Just to point out while everyone is shitting on Horgan that there are people here who have said basically the same thing.

#24117

On the plus side of the Dawkins thing, we are at least finding out who the true pussies of the A/S movement are.

They want to play leader while pissing in their pants at the first challenge.

#24118

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:NECSS lost Dawkins, but got this crank dipshit instead:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cro ... -war-more/

This asshole cites himself throughout his article. When you go to his earlier cited post, it contains more citations back to earlier blogs by him. And so on. It's turtles all the way down.

#24119

Without peeking, can you guess who has a stiff organ for Horgan?

#24120

You have to prove he can get it up.