Kirbmarc wrote:Steersman wrote:And in other news, and of maybe some interest to at least a few,
Quillette has an interesting post on the question of race. A salient quote or two:
<snip>
Most people believe that there are human races. They believe this not because they have a sophisticated understanding of genetic variation or human evolution, but because they see and categorize perspicuous phenotypic (and possibly behavioral) differences. Although many intellectuals have contended that these differences are largely superficial and distort underlying genetic realities, most research suggests that there are meaningful genetic differences among racial groups and that these differences are largely consistent with common racial classifications. .... Tolerance and cosmopolitanism don’t require the leveling of diversity; they require the celebration of it. Race exists, but racism does not have to.
Of maybe some particular interest as it may provide some clarification, the comments and arguments about clustering, multiple loci, and patterns getting lost in the noise was something that I've attempted to illustrate several times, particularly in
Post #29385.
To say that races as complicated clusters of common genetic traits (which cause common phenotypic and possibly behavioral differences) is by and large
correct and common knowldge (although it's not PC in some circles when talking about human beings). Human racial divisions, while much more complicated that what can be inferred from simply phenotypic analysis, do exist.
Generally a good analysis and one I largely agree with - though there might be some correlation there. :-) However ("incoming qualifications!"), I think it somewhat moot just how common that knowledge might be - even here. In addition, I think "simple phenotypic analysis" kind of misses the point somewhat: there are literally zillions of "races" that can be noted - some of which are manifestly obvious and many more of which would require analysis of geneotypes to elucidate.
Kirbmarc wrote:Interracial breeding is always possible, though, since different races aren't different species: however aren't monoliths. In places like the US, interracial reproduction is and has been
more frequent than most assume:
Wikipedia wrote:58 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5% European ancestry (equivalent of one great-grandparent);
19.6 percent of African Americans have at least 25% European ancestry (equivalent of one grandparent);
1 percent of African Americans have at least 50% European ancestry (equivalent of one parent) (Gates is one of these, he discovered, having a total of 51% European ancestry among various distant ancestors); and
5 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5% Native American ancestry (equivalent to one great-grandparent
Somewhat apropos of which, I was somewhat amused to see that
Ben Affleck wasn't "amused" that some of his ancestors were slave owners:
PBS Suspends Finding Your Roots After Ben Affleck's "Improper Influence" of Suppressing Slave-Owning Family History
Wonder what he would do if it turned out he had some black ancestory to boot.
Kirbmarc wrote:What is dangerous about racism is assuming that physical and behavioral differences imply some kind of metaphysical superiority or inferiority (thus justifying differential legal and social treatment) and that those differences must be strictly enforced by prohibiting interracial breeding.
Yea. Sort of. But while it is maybe a questionable inference on my part, I kind of get the impression that you're somewhat reluctant to consider that that there might well be some degree of "superiority or inferiority" for different races - at least statistically speaking, i.e., on average. Somewhat analogous to the manifest fact that men are, statistically speaking - on average, taller than women but which hardly obviates the fact that many women are still taller than many men. Likewise, in all probability, with many attributes of races. For instance, it is a fact that Jews comprise some 0.2% of the world's population yet have garnered some 20% of the Nobel prizes. So, statistically speaking, one could say that Jews are smarter that Gentiles but that does not preclude or obviate the fact that many Gentiles are smarter that many Jews. Lies, damned lies, and statistics ....
Kirbmarc wrote:TL;DR: We're all bigots and have double standards, but in order to survive in a big society we need to tone it down and not promote a different kind of inter-group hatred. Also we must train ourselves to recognize propaganda and accept compromises, but not to promote authoritarism.
Generally agree with you about in-group morality and out-group hostility. Although, as you kind of suggested, making common cause isn't intrinsically flawed: E pluribus unum and all that.
