The Refuge of the Toads

[JackSkeptic]

Rod Hull. The man who found a way to physically assault famous people on live TV and get paid for it. Legend!

I always found the manner of his death to be an odd mix of the pedestrian and unusual. He fell off the roof of his bungalow while trying to adjust his TV aerial and grashed through a greenhouse. It seems a fitting end for the bloke, despite the face that he probably deserved a better send off.

What products does Rod Hull use to do his laundry?

Ariel and Bounce :D :D

I think he was trying to get a signal for an England World Cup game too.

I think it was a Man-U game - could have been the Bayern Munich champions league final - Hope not though, cos he missed a cracking finish!

I briefly met Rod Hull once and unlike some comedians he really came across as a warm, funny man. I was quit sad when he got himself killed. Silly sod could at least got run over by a maruading paks of Emu's though. Falling off a roof is so passe.

[JackSkeptic]

spuliin faile.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Wait, wait, that new Carrier thing could get interesting.

[Shatterface]

Windy, do you have a picture from your avatar in a better quality?[/quote]

This any better?

http://66.media.tumblr.com/92f8fa83923f ... o1_500.jpg

[deLurch]

Carrier spills details -- Skepticon's Lauren Lane (you've seen her hammy introductions of PZ in several Skepticon videos) is the one who wrote the notice banning Carrier for being dangerous to staff and attendees. She's also the "other woman" with whom Carrier cheated on his wife years ago. And he claims that her actions since they quit fucking are that of a scorned woman.

He names targets of his pending "defamation case" -- Skepticon, FtB, Lane, Zvan, and Myers.

ZVAN. And MYERS. HAHAHAHA!!

Mr A+Plus does not like being on the other side of the accusing finger.
http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

Archived:
https://archive.is/DKP2l

[Shatterface]

Wait, wait, that new Carrier thing could get interesting.

About time. I was afraid the issue was just going to fade away.

[screwtape]

Carrier spills details -- Skepticon's Lauren Lane (you've seen her hammy introductions of PZ in several Skepticon videos) is the one who wrote the notice banning Carrier for being dangerous to staff and attendees. She's also the "other woman" with whom Carrier cheated on his wife years ago. And he claims that her actions since they quit fucking are that of a scorned woman.

He names targets of his pending "defamation case" -- Skepticon, FtB, Lane, Zvan, and Myers.

ZVAN. And MYERS. HAHAHAHA!!

Mr A+Plus does not like being on the other side of the accusing finger.

It is very disheartening to see feminists in our movement act exactly as MRA’s and other anti-feminists claim they would: by believing any claim told them without investigating it, and exaggerating ordinary and relatively harmless behavior into dangerous sexual harassment. This is a fundamentally broken epistemology. I have always said competent feminists don’t just “believe the accuser.” They take accusations seriously, by conducting or calling for a formal or at least competent investigation. That’s sound epistemology. Whatever epistemology The Orbit and Freethoughtblogs is deploying, it’s not sound. It’s dangerous. And I think this actually puts them now in a position where no one can trust them to accurately describe anything. And that severely harms the cause of feminism in the atheism movement.

.....

Unless they make major and public changes to their standards of conduct when dealing with serious accusations like this in future. They need to declare and commit to explicit standards that are actually and reliably capable of discovering false accusations (like the Amy Frank accusation, which has evidence against it that any competent investigation would uncover) and that will accurately describe the facts of a case (meeting legal standards as well as journalistic). Until they do that, they’ve destroyed their ability to advocate for victims. They have also handed a coup to anti-feminists, who oppose the legitimate causes of feminism by claiming all feminism must be toxic owing to the very things on display here: a dangerous credulity and exaggeration of facts. I believe The Orbit and FreethoughtBlogs have a lot of work to do to repair this damage and rebuild their credibility.

http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

Having waded through the whole article I am now satisfied: that boy is definitely on the spectrum.

[dogen]

http://i.imgur.com/WzpONJq.jpg

Aubrey Beardsley cover art?

[Shatterface]

I think 'fraternisation' might be my least favourite f-word.

The whole idea that there are people with whom you can and cannot voluntarily associate is creepy and authoritarian.

[Shatterface]

Having waded through the whole article I am now satisfied: that boy is definitely on the spectrum.

That's not how it works.

In order to become recognised as member of the spectrum you have to be nominated by two already-diagnosed members, then spend a year as a probationer, memorising train times and picking fights on the Internet.

A successful candidate will then have to perform an initiation ceremony where he bites the head off his jeans and pisses on a chicken.

Them's the rules.

[Skep tickle]

Skepticon has posted financials for FY ending 6/30/2016: https://skepticon.org/financials/

Red ink the past 2 years...

[Darth Cynic]

Carrier spills details -- Skepticon's Lauren Lane (you've seen her hammy introductions of PZ in several Skepticon videos) is the one who wrote the notice banning Carrier for being dangerous to staff and attendees. She's also the "other woman" with whom Carrier cheated on his wife years ago. And he claims that her actions since they quit fucking are that of a scorned woman.

He names targets of his pending "defamation case" -- Skepticon, FtB, Lane, Zvan, and Myers.

ZVAN. And MYERS. HAHAHAHA!!

Mr A+Plus does not like being on the other side of the accusing finger.

It is very disheartening to see feminists in our movement act exactly as MRA’s and other anti-feminists claim they would: by believing any claim told them without investigating it, and exaggerating ordinary and relatively harmless behavior into dangerous sexual harassment. This is a fundamentally broken epistemology. I have always said competent feminists don’t just “believe the accuser.” They take accusations seriously, by conducting or calling for a formal or at least competent investigation. That’s sound epistemology. Whatever epistemology The Orbit and Freethoughtblogs is deploying, it’s not sound. It’s dangerous. And I think this actually puts them now in a position where no one can trust them to accurately describe anything. And that severely harms the cause of feminism in the atheism movement.

.....

Unless they make major and public changes to their standards of conduct when dealing with serious accusations like this in future. They need to declare and commit to explicit standards that are actually and reliably capable of discovering false accusations (like the Amy Frank accusation, which has evidence against it that any competent investigation would uncover) and that will accurately describe the facts of a case (meeting legal standards as well as journalistic). Until they do that, they’ve destroyed their ability to advocate for victims. They have also handed a coup to anti-feminists, who oppose the legitimate causes of feminism by claiming all feminism must be toxic owing to the very things on display here: a dangerous credulity and exaggeration of facts. I believe The Orbit and FreethoughtBlogs have a lot of work to do to repair this damage and rebuild their credibility.

http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

Geez the Intellectual Artillery is really slipping, I reckon that if he was at the top of his game he could have mentioned 'epistemology' at least a further half dozen times in that turgid exculpatory drivel of his.

Funny ain't it how the modus operandi of that lot is now dangerous, harmful, credulous, exaggerating, done great damage to their credibility and is not the mark of competent feminists when poor Dicky 'never wrong' Carrier is in the frame. Old Dicky - as best as I'm aware - never had a problem with the SOP in those circles before, how does it all of a sudden become so egregiously compromised? Surely a diligent and properly skeptical polymath like Dicky would have noticed these serious intellectual failings long ago, and not merely because he now finds himself in the crosshair and has to start piling sandbags.

So, does this mean previous FTB witch hunts like Shermer and Radford are now questionable to competent SJWs or does this fall in standards leading to great error only apply to him?

Anyhoo, I so want to see this taken further because I am almost certain that he is so in love with his intellectual prowess he'll attempt to represent himself.

[paddybrown]

Who else here, beside me, has had the opportunity to spend a drunken night with Hemingway's godson?

Didn't think so...

No, but my dad once had a pee in the next urinal to Richard Wilson from One Foot in the Grave. Beat that!

[youtube]mJD6fg9Ld5A[/youtube]

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I just finished watching & thoroughly enjoying THE FALL. Mini-series about a serial killer in Belfast.

[Tigzy]

Carrier spills details -- Skepticon's Lauren Lane (you've seen her hammy introductions of PZ in several Skepticon videos) is the one who wrote the notice banning Carrier for being dangerous to staff and attendees. She's also the "other woman" with whom Carrier cheated on his wife years ago. And he claims that her actions since they quit fucking are that of a scorned woman.

He names targets of his pending "defamation case" -- Skepticon, FtB, Lane, Zvan, and Myers.

ZVAN. And MYERS. HAHAHAHA!!

Mr A+Plus does not like being on the other side of the accusing finger.

Thoroughly enjoyed the part where Dicky complains that Lauren wouldn't have gotten away with it if she was a man. Coupled with all the bitchez be lyin, bitchez be cray-cray, he sounds about ready to beat a path to Paul Elam's door. :lol:

If he's telling the truth about his legal action, then where the fuck is he getting the money from? Honestly can't fathom that.

[free thoughtpolice]

Richard Dreyfus Carrier wrote:

They have also handed a coup to anti-feminists, who oppose the legitimate causes of feminism by claiming all feminism must be toxic owing to the very things on display here: a dangerous credulity and exaggeration of facts.

As a true feminist I have spoken out against the toxic feminist crowd that is poisoning the true movement but have been met with "you are not a feminist", "I'll cut you with this broken virtual bottle", and many other insults as well as banning. My latest attempt to warn the spineless manlet Trav Mamone about toxic feminist bullying ended with him banning me and him crawling along his belly to lick the shit trail of his radfem tormentors.
Indeed, I tried to warn Dr. Carrier about the dangerous extremists in his midst and he laughed it off, claiming there may be a few man hating weirdos but they are rare and he has never run across them.
I can only say, I told you so.
It's a bit tempting to join team Carrier in order to clear his good name :? however it would require he apologize for the A+ CHUD thing as well as his participation in the anti-Shermer mob.

[Shatterface]

Who else here, beside me, has had the opportunity to spend a drunken night with Hemingway's godson?

Didn't think so...

No, but my dad once had a pee in the next urinal to Richard Wilson from One Foot in the Grave. Beat that!

[youtube]mJD6fg9Ld5A[/youtube]

I went to uni with a girl who's grandmother gave George Formby his first driving lesson.

Beat that.

[Tigzy]

Anyhoo, I so want to see this taken further because I am almost certain that he is so in love with his intellectual prowess he'll attempt to represent himself.

:think:

If he's telling the truth about his legal action, then where the fuck is he getting the money from? Honestly can't fathom that.

He...

Nah. Not Dicky. Not even he -

:think:

He fucking would, wouldn't he.

:shock:

[free thoughtpolice]

A short video that shows what Lauren Lane does when she isn't chasing after Dr. Carrier and trying to get one of his genderfluid facials.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2012 ... epticon-5/

[Mr. X, Indeed]

Carrier spills details -- Skepticon's Lauren Lane (you've seen her hammy introductions of PZ in several Skepticon videos) is the one who wrote the notice banning Carrier for being dangerous to staff and attendees. She's also the "other woman" with whom Carrier cheated on his wife years ago. And he claims that her actions since they quit fucking are that of a scorned woman.

He names targets of his pending "defamation case" -- Skepticon, FtB, Lane, Zvan, and Myers.

ZVAN. And MYERS. HAHAHAHA!!

Mr A+Plus does not like being on the other side of the accusing finger.
http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

Archived:
https://archive.is/DKP2l

Witnesses and documents will both attest that many years ago Lauren Lane initiated a sexual relationship with me, at a Skepticon event she was running, at which I was a speaker.

What the fuck kind of documents are those?

[deLurch]

http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

The Secular Student Alliance retained a professional investigator who consulted documents and interviewed witnesses pertaining to this. He did not conclude any sexual harassment or assault had occurred.

However the SSA specifically stated:
https://secularstudents.org/node/6669

To be clear, the purpose of the third party inquiry was to determine the sufficiency of and ways to continue to improve SSA’s policies and procedures, not to determine the guilt or innocence of any party or the merit of any accusations.

At this point, Richard needs to provide proof of his claim.

I know personally that multiple eyewitnesses do not corroborate Frank’s new claims, and that harassment and physical contact were not part of her original complaint to the SSA last year, and also, based on what I was told by the SSA at the time, contradicted her own original statements conveyed to the SSA and to other witnesses.

Proof would be nice.

That’s the status of the only actual sexual harassment charge against me.

There are allegedly other accusations. And Skepitcon based their decision on his own behavior towards their staff. There are no official criminal charges being brought. Only reports to conventions, organizations & blog networks.

I even directed their way a highly-experienced professional investigator who does this for free and has conducted dozens of investigations for a large number of secular organizations over many years, and who is independent and wholly unaccountable to me.

So what is up with this? Does Richard just know how he operates in terms of keeping things private, or does he have some sort of established connection?

In actual fact, the “Skepticon staffer” in question is Lauren Lane, an ex-lover of mine, who has indicated a strong dislike of me for breaking up with her, and who has harassed me in the past.

He is trying to pull a Ben R. Crazy Ex. Does that statement also put Richard at risk for a defamation lawsuit? Has he had his claim independently investigated by a 3rd party prior to publishing?

Likewise that it occurred in the context of an on-and-off year-long relationship between us.

Pics or GTFO.

Witnesses and documents will both attest that many years ago Lauren Lane initiated a sexual relationship with me, at a Skepticon event she was running, at which I was a speaker.

Wait... were they watching in the corner of the room? Fuck these voyeur fetishes.

Had a man done all that Lane has done, people would be outraged and calling for him to step down. Had a man running a conference initiated a sexual relationship with a speaker without expressly asking her permission, there would be outrage. Had that man then harassed her after she broke up with him, not taking her no for an answer and pushing past every stated boundary (even trying to bypass those boundaries by using a friend as a proxy), there would be outrage. If she then changed her mind and tried renewing her relationship with him with a single insensitive electronic missive repeating their past sexual banter, and was refused, and she immediately apologized and left him alone according to his wishes, and then he used his organization to defame her character and ban her from his conference, there would be outrage.

Can we officially call Richard Carrier a MRA now?

You might want to ask why there isn’t outrage at Lauren Lane

Still waiting for the Intellectual Artillery of Atheism Plus to explain why.

The “Other Two Women”
Stephanie Zvan of The Orbit and PZ Myers of Freethought Blogs

LOL.

They conducted no professional investigation of any of those claims before publishing them, not even of the sort a competent journalist would perform. Such behavior is reckless, irresponsible, and unprofessional.

Kind of like what Richard Carrier just did with Lauren Lane.

We had been friends for years and had engaged in mild flirtatious banter. I had no idea they loathed me.

:lol:

It should be clear this interaction is not at all what Zvan and Myers depict or describe. It also does not warrant banning me from conferences or concluding I’m a danger to anyone. Nor does what happened with Lane. That they are recklessly stating wildly disproportionate judgments, and failing to report the actual facts to the public that grossly alter the picture they’ve drawn, will be key elements of my defamation case against them and their blog networks.

How about avoiding lawsuit happy Richard Carrier? He is suing a bunch of his past business partners.

It is very disheartening to see feminists in our movement act exactly as MRA’s and other anti-feminists claim they would: by believing any claim told them without investigating it, and exaggerating ordinary and relatively harmless behavior into dangerous sexual harassment. This is a fundamentally broken epistemology. I have always said competent feminists don’t just “believe the accuser.” They take accusations seriously, by conducting or calling for a formal or at least competent investigation. That’s sound epistemology. Whatever epistemology The Orbit and Freethoughtblogs is deploying, it’s not sound. It’s dangerous. And I think this actually puts them now in a position where no one can trust them to accurately describe anything. And that severely harms the cause of feminism in the atheism movement.

This is more than rich. This is Richard.

And then wait for that investigation to be concluded and its results published, or for either the accuser or the accused to refuse to cooperate with it, before issuing judgments.

Didn't Richard Carrier refuse to cooperate with the Free Thought Blogs investigation? Sounds like he preferred his own 3rd party investigator.

The solution is the pursuit of actual social justice. Which must mean justice for everyone. We cannot build justice on a foundation of injustice.

Richard clearly doesn't know what social justice is. He might as well have ended that with "All Lives Matter."

Testimonials collected by Milwaukee Mythicists.
http://www.mythicistmilwaukee.com/mythi ... rd-carrier
Archive: https://archive.is/SQusn

[Service Dog]

....
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1u4AAOSwO ... s-l300.jpg

They advertised the movie with that poster, showing the lovely tall Aryan couple surrounded by gorillas, and don’t seem to have considered the optics of the image at all.

....

http://www.konbini.com/en/files/2015/09 ... 10x539.jpg

http://www.sherdog.com/image_crop.php?i ... height=300

https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/projects/2028 ... 99cfaa422b


The white giant is MMA heavyweight fighter Justin Wren, known in the Congo as Efeosa, "the man who loves us," and Mbuti MangBo, "the big pygmy."

In 2010, he retired from fighting to dig wells so that pygmies would not die from diseased surface water. He fights Congo govt corruption, waste of funds by NGOs, and the neighboring people who enslave the pygmies. He's a Texan and a big dumb white straight cis male violent jock athlete, PZ.

After 5 years of retirement, he returned to MMA fighting-- seeing it as the the best way to raise funds & awareness for Congo pygmy suffering, founding "Fight for the Forgotten". With just 6 weeks training time, he overcame malaria to win his comeback fight/ succumbed again to malaria, then won his next fight.

In January 2015, he was a guest on Joe Rogan's podcast. It took over 20 minutes for the interview to gain traction, but from-there-- it's a heck of a tale:

3 days ago he returned to Rogan's podcast. I'm only 40 minutes in, but... it's another home run. This time he talks about being suicidal from age 13 due to bullying at school. He now speaks in Texas schools, against bullying.

[youtube]GBlXxfoGkpU[/youtube]

His life should be a movie. Starring Leslie Jones.



Aaaaaaand, in the corner, hailing from Morrrrrrris, Minnnesota. 5 foot 4, hunched. 264 pounds... PZ "land squid" Myers

http://i.imgur.com/eZPrcFl.jpg?1

[gurugeorge]

In all seriousness, she's not qualified to self-diagnose as psychopath. Maybe yes, maybe no. She reminds me of other early teens who do horrific killings (or attempts), like the kid who imitated Leonardo Depaprio (intentional misspelling) in one movie or another and killed his mother and father. Life isn't real to these kids. Somehow the seriousness of life and death hasn't registered. I'm not sure if they're salvageable. It's tempting to consider them demon spawn.

For a very good fictional account of this, see "We need to talk about Kevin" with Tilda Swinton. Very good movie, and very haunting.

I always think of it in terms of bell curves. As a rule of thumb, for any given human trait, some have it a lot, most have it some, and a few have little to none. Empathy is one of them.

Another interesting case is the Christian who does very precise text-based takedowns of Islam on Youtube - Acts17Apologetics. As a young man he tried to kill his dad as (what he felt to be) an expression of his atheism and nihilism. Fortunately his dad survived, he got jailed, and eventually converted to Christianity, which he finds to be a strong barrier against his psychopathic tendencies - since he finds enough reasonable argument (now) to believe in God, and he believes morality is a command from God, he behaves morally. We can all wipe the sweat from our brows.

But actually, everything he tells us about that period of his life just says that he has no native sense of empathy. He had to install one from Christianity.

But these are outliers on the human spectrum.

That's exactly the argument I used on Vox Day, when I was still in the mood to bitch with him. He always delighted in saying atheists are prone to Asperger's, just to turn the knife in the wound. So, I simply made up the bullshit theory that Christians are really psychopaths leaning on religion to make them socially acceptable. Well, on his alt-right Christian forum, that went down as well as one would expect. I wonder, though, if there isn't some truth to it.

LOL, that's the sort of thing I might have said when I was a young man and hated Christianity. Nowadays, I'm much more mellow about it, live and let live.

In fact, as a result of working (office work) with a Christian organization these past few months, I've come to see the beneficial aspect of religion in practice. They have tons more fun in their workaday lives as Christians working together, than any secular office I've ever worked in.

There's something about a group of people having a settled perspective on the over-arching context of existence that makes for group cohesiveness.

A while ago I was musing about this a lot, and I came up with the notion that we should all pick a religion and LARP it. i.e. take religion as roleplaying, much as you would in a CRPG.

I think that way you'd get the social cohesion/togetherness fun benefits, without the need to fully intellectually commit. Whether it's the FSM or Christianity or Discordianism or whatnot, doesn't really matter (you pick whatever appeals to you on a deep level emotionally), you just immerse yourself in it, while keeping the rational part of your mind in a guardian position, and worship together with people, enjoy the Amish-like group cohesiveness with other people, much as you would in a videogame or LARPing.

I think that's actually how most people who were just born into a religion (but don't take it all that seriously) are anyway, but it might be interesting if this became a social thing, where we just acknowledged openly that that's what we were doing.

[MarcusAu]

I went to uni with a girl who's grandmother gave George Formby his first driving lesson.

Beat that.

Did she say if he had any positive feedback?

[youtube]P0qyrnGLnsw[/youtube]

[gurugeorge]

It is very disheartening to see feminists in our movement act exactly as MRA’s and other anti-feminists claim they would: by believing any claim told them without investigating it, and exaggerating ordinary and relatively harmless behavior into dangerous sexual harassment. This is a fundamentally broken epistemology. I have always said competent feminists don’t just “believe the accuser.” They take accusations seriously, by conducting or calling for a formal or at least competent investigation. That’s sound epistemology. Whatever epistemology The Orbit and Freethoughtblogs is deploying, it’s not sound. It’s dangerous. And I think this actually puts them now in a position where no one can trust them to accurately describe anything. And that severely harms the cause of feminism in the atheism movement.

Carrier, you dumb fuck, you were just taken in by the Motte & Bailey effect. You do at least believe in reality and evidence-based argument, they don't, they never did. I warned you on your own stupid blog that you would regret allying yourself with these people.

smh

[free thoughtpolice]

Mr X wrote:

What the fuck kind of documents are those?

He quotes his own writing as documentary evidence, so he's probably talking about one of his blog posts.

[paddybrown]

Just read Carrier's blogpost. I'm have no qualification to make this diagnosis, but he's autistic as fuck. The way he tries to rationally analyse every social interaction and learn from each new input seems to be the very definition of autism as it's been explained to me. He has no social instincts, and can only operate in a social context by observing how people around him operate and trying to imitate them. He's in the mess he's in because the people around him, whose standards of behaviour he's trying to conform to, are SJWs, for whom the appropriateness of any act depends only on whether it's done by a member of the ingroup or the outgroup: it's ok when we do it. Good luck to anyone without social instincts trying to divine any kind of guiding principle from them.

[deLurch]

I think a fair settlement is for the the parties Richard Carrier takes issue with to repost his rebuttal he made there in whole.

[paddybrown]

In other news, I dropped a plectrum mid-song during rehearsals with the band this afternoon, and was quite relieved to be able to finish the song with my fingers without anyone noticing. If it happens for real on the night, I should be able to manage.

[Mr. X, Indeed]

Mr X wrote:

What the fuck kind of documents are those?

He quotes his own writing as documentary evidence, so he's probably talking about one of his blog posts.

It probably is that dull. I'll still hold out hope for notarized affidavits about who initiated what, though.

[MarcusAu]

A while ago I was musing about this a lot, and I came up with the notion that we should all pick a religion and LARP it. i.e. take religion as roleplaying, much as you would in a CRPG.

Robert Anson Wilson suggested a similar thing with respect to belief at one point.

And I'm sure that others have tried to believe 'six impossible things before breakfast'.

Social cohesion (or conformity) is an important factor in society, but I don't think it should be a end-goal in itself. Perhaps I'm too enamoured of the contrarians, and too distrusting of a system that seems to be almost designed to be exploited - but I think the restrictions would chafe sooner rather than later.

[deLurch]

An interesting side note. Richard claims he is disheartened by what this experience has show him. But at least according to pz myers, Richard told him that he knew how they were going to behave which is why he scampered off.

Richard has always known this is how they behave. He just excused it, supported it, and looked the other way until their guns were pointed at him.

[deLurch]

Is there any way we can get Richard Carrier on a podcast to discuss these issues? I don't care which one. Anyone will do.

[Badger3k]

(img]http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1u4AAOSwO ... s-l300.jpg[/img]

They advertised the movie with that poster, showing the lovely tall Aryan couple surrounded by gorillas, and don’t seem to have considered the optics of the image at all.

Those aren't gorillas, they're Mangani. :snooty:

Are they a mutation of Manginas?

What's he hinting at anyway? It's bad form to show white people surrounded by apes because... he associates apes with POC, or what?

I guess this is some Leni Riefenstahl style propaganda then:
http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/adv ... dall-1.jpg

White male bad (if more attractive than Peasy), everyone else and every animal good.

If you look at the title, that's Jane Goodall, who, last I knew, identified as a white female. Shame on you for misgendering her! Say two Our Myers and three Hail Zvans for penance. :lol:

[Sunder]

So, I simply made up the bullshit theory that Christians are really psychopaths leaning on religion to make them socially acceptable. Well, on his alt-right Christian forum, that went down as well as one would expect. I wonder, though, if there isn't some truth to it.

Well that might be true of the very few. But let's be honest. The vast vast vast majority of Christians are Christian because they were born and raised in the religion. Just like the bulk of us tend to do things the way our parents did them, from the way we cook, to the types of food we buy. Someone who's father always changed his own motor oil is more prone to continue the habit. And someone who had someone else change it for him is likely to continue that habit. Far easier than reevaluating every single choice we have available in life.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And for the vast majority of people raised in their religions, it has never really ever caused a problem in the way they live their lives.

And for those who tend to stray, the churches tended to snake them back in when it comes time for marriage. And then comes baptisms (better safe than sorry, and doesn't want to disappoint the spouse). And all the other rituals for the kids.

I would say that while I don't think very many people consciously cling to religion to curb their baser nature, we do know of multiple theists who openly state that if they didn't believe there'd be nothing to stop them from being immoral monsters. And while it's possible that some of them are fooling themselves and just refuse to admit that they have an internal morality, some might actually be telling the truth.

[Karmakin]

Just read Carrier's blogpost. I'm have no qualification to make this diagnosis, but he's autistic as fuck. The way he tries to rationally analyse every social interaction and learn from each new input seems to be the very definition of autism as it's been explained to me. He has no social instincts, and can only operate in a social context by observing how people around him operate and trying to imitate them. He's in the mess he's in because the people around him, whose standards of behaviour he's trying to conform to, are SJWs, for whom the appropriateness of any act depends only on whether it's done by a member of the ingroup or the outgroup: it's ok when we do it. Good luck to anyone without social instincts trying to divine any kind of guiding principle from them.

I think I agree. Maybe not autistic, but someone with a low native social intelligence. I'm actually not saying that as an attack. I'd raise my hand as someone who shares that. I'm everything you say there, well, except for the social "teachings" I have are generally entirely different.

Kinda feel bad for him really. I could see myself in the same boat, to be honest, given exposure to a different culture.

[free thoughtpolice]

Ted Bundy did it because of pornography and Jeffrey Dahmer says he would have been OK if he kept going to church. His dad agreed and he was a scientist. :pray:

[gurugeorge]

A while ago I was musing about this a lot, and I came up with the notion that we should all pick a religion and LARP it. i.e. take religion as roleplaying, much as you would in a CRPG.

Robert Anson Wilson suggested a similar thing with respect to belief at one point.

I just remembered another writer who suggested something similar - Neil Stephenson, in his s-f book Diamond Age, with his "neo-Victorians", who live by a strict Victorian sort of lifestyle, because "discipline is power", or something along those lines.

[Karmakin]

Carrier spills details -- Skepticon's Lauren Lane (you've seen her hammy introductions of PZ in several Skepticon videos) is the one who wrote the notice banning Carrier for being dangerous to staff and attendees. She's also the "other woman" with whom Carrier cheated on his wife years ago. And he claims that her actions since they quit fucking are that of a scorned woman.

He names targets of his pending "defamation case" -- Skepticon, FtB, Lane, Zvan, and Myers.

ZVAN. And MYERS. HAHAHAHA!!

Mr A+Plus does not like being on the other side of the accusing finger.
http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

Archived:
https://archive.is/DKP2l

Witnesses and documents will both attest that many years ago Lauren Lane initiated a sexual relationship with me, at a Skepticon event she was running, at which I was a speaker.

What the fuck kind of documents are those?

E-mails and digital messages? (Texts, Facebook, etc.)

Carrier should know. Those types of messages don't go for shit these days. The narrative is they don't count because reasons. Who is Carrier or anybody to judge how a victim reacts to their victimization.

:naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

[Karmakin]

I was listening to a podcast talking about media coverage of the election, and that instead of blaming Trump on Putin, he should just be acknowledged as a homegrown fascist. Whatever. But what really hit me, was after that, was acknowledgement that in the American system Trump can't really do official fascist stuff, and the best he can do is do things outside of government...encourage blacklists, demagoguery against certain groups/individuals and so on.

So basically act like an SJW.

Honestly, it's now my position on the US election that it's fascist vs. fascist. Both Trump and Clinton, are aggressively authoritarian and would probably abuse any power they receive horribly.

[JayTeeAitch]

I just finished watching & thoroughly enjoying THE FALL. Mini-series about a serial killer in Belfast.

You might also like "Happy Valley" and "Unforgiven" both written by Sally Wainwright who, incidentally, used to drive a bus whilst a struggling young writer; she didn't write blog posts about man-spreading like today's fearless kick ass feminists.

[Easy J]

Just read Carrier's blogpost. I'm have no qualification to make this diagnosis, but he's autistic as fuck. The way he tries to rationally analyse every social interaction and learn from each new input seems to be the very definition of autism as it's been explained to me. He has no social instincts, and can only operate in a social context by observing how people around him operate and trying to imitate them. He's in the mess he's in because the people around him, whose standards of behaviour he's trying to conform to, are SJWs, for whom the appropriateness of any act depends only on whether it's done by a member of the ingroup or the outgroup: it's ok when we do it. Good luck to anyone without social instincts trying to divine any kind of guiding principle from them.

That post hit a little close to home, so I found an online autism test & gave it a go.

https://psychology-tools.com/autism-spe ... /score.php

"Your score was 39 out of a possible 50. Scores in the 33-50 range indicate significant autistic traits (autism)."

Thinking of following up on this. It sure would explain a lot & might make a handy weapon when neurotypicals forget their privilege. Anyone know of any cheap but respectable ways to test for this?

[rayshul]

It is very disheartening to see feminists in our movement act exactly as MRA’s and other anti-feminists claim they would: by believing any claim told them without investigating it, and exaggerating ordinary and relatively harmless behavior into dangerous sexual harassment. This is a fundamentally broken epistemology. I have always said competent feminists don’t just “believe the accuser.” They take accusations seriously, by conducting or calling for a formal or at least competent investigation. That’s sound epistemology. Whatever epistemology The Orbit and Freethoughtblogs is deploying, it’s not sound. It’s dangerous. And I think this actually puts them now in a position where no one can trust them to accurately describe anything. And that severely harms the cause of feminism in the atheism movement.

.....

Unless they make major and public changes to their standards of conduct when dealing with serious accusations like this in future. They need to declare and commit to explicit standards that are actually and reliably capable of discovering false accusations (like the Amy Frank accusation, which has evidence against it that any competent investigation would uncover) and that will accurately describe the facts of a case (meeting legal standards as well as journalistic). Until they do that, they’ve destroyed their ability to advocate for victims. They have also handed a coup to anti-feminists, who oppose the legitimate causes of feminism by claiming all feminism must be toxic owing to the very things on display here: a dangerous credulity and exaggeration of facts. I believe The Orbit and FreethoughtBlogs have a lot of work to do to repair this damage and rebuild their credibility.

http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967

Dude gets it.

But they ALWAYS suddenly get it when they're being attacked.

[Kirbmarc]

It is very disheartening to see feminists in our movement act exactly as MRA’s and other anti-feminists claim they would: by believing any claim told them without investigating it, and exaggerating ordinary and relatively harmless behavior into dangerous sexual harassment. This is a fundamentally broken epistemology. I have always said competent feminists don’t just “believe the accuser.” They take accusations seriously, by conducting or calling for a formal or at least competent investigation. That’s sound epistemology. Whatever epistemology The Orbit and Freethoughtblogs is deploying, it’s not sound. It’s dangerous. And I think this actually puts them now in a position where no one can trust them to accurately describe anything. And that severely harms the cause of feminism in the atheism movement.

Carrier, you dumb fuck, you were just taken in by the Motte & Bailey effect. You do at least believe in reality and evidence-based argument, they don't, they never did. I warned you on your own stupid blog that you would regret allying yourself with these people.

smh

Carrier is noticing this only because they're attacking him. This has nothing to do with intelligence or social skills. Carrier knew those things all along, he simply refused to admit the truth because he was enjoying the perks of being a "good feminist".

Where were those concerns when it was Shermer who was accused of bad behavior? There was no formal investigation, let alone a competent one (no, Carrier's Bayesian analysis doesn't count, even if he's deluded enough to think that's comptent at investigating allegations of crimes, as he himself was unsure whether Shermer was a rapist or just a sleaze). What about Radford? Carrier didn't even write a Bayesian analysis about him. What about PZ' aborted attempt to spread smears about Lawrence Krauss or Michael Nugent?

I refuse to believe that Carrier is really so dumb or socially unskilled that he just understood the SJW method. It's far easier to assume that he's just so self centered that as long as he was on "the right side of history" he didn't care about methods or a fact-based epistemology and simply went along with the SJW flow. Now that he's a target he has nothing to lose and he suddenly (re)discovers evidence-based skepticism. Convenient.

Anyway it's good to see that Carrier's huge ego is a safeguard against PZ-esque groveling before the Radfem Overlords. Narcissists are annoying, but at least they're too self-centered to humiliate themselves for a sliver of moral righteousness.

[screwtape]

I refuse to believe that Carrier is really so dumb or socially unskilled that he just understood the SJW method. It's far easier to assume that he's just so self centered that as long as he was on "the right side of history" he didn't care about methods or a fact-based epistemology and simply went along with the SJW flow.

I respect your opinion and you may be quite right that he was happy to go along as long as he got his nooky. But the fact is that every sentence he writes, every way in which he tries so hard to understand stuff that others have hard-wired, even to the extent of resorting to Bayes Theorem to understand contentious matters of opinion, all scream 'autism' to those who know their subject matter. The lad's not a typpie even though he may still be a dick, a perv, a creep and several other things. I don't say this to excuse him, but just to make an observation that I would bet upon.

[Kirbmarc]

Dude gets it.

But they ALWAYS suddenly get it when they're being attacked.

Most of them always get it. They just pretend not to when it's other people who are being smeared.

SJW ideology is a blatant excuse for bullying. Alpha bullies attract a number of beta bullies who bully others just not to become victims themselves. Once they're turned into victims they're the first to scream about how bullying is awful and unfair.

The only people who never abandon SJW ideology are the thought leaders and those too weak to stand up for themselves, who have come to enjoy perpetual humiliation and suffering at the hands of their "allies". But anyone with half a brain understands that the SJW standards for believing accusations are insane.

[deLurch]

http://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10967
Dude gets it.
But they ALWAYS suddenly get it when they're being attacked.

But how well does he get it? Does he still stand by his Atheism+ CHUD speech and kicking out people who don't fall in line to that old agenda? Does he recognize that the failures he now expresses about his old blog network, the orbit, Skepticon are now the prevailing winds when it comes to main stream feminism and that is what people are objecting to?

[deLurch]

But the fact is that every sentence he writes, every way in which he tries so hard to understand stuff that others have hard-wired, even to the extent of resorting to Bayes Theorem to understand contentious matters of opinion, all scream 'autism' to those who know their subject matter.

He does that in order to try and present himself as a superior intellectual. But the truth is, Garbage In, Garbage Out. It throws most biblical critics for a loop because they have to figure out what Baye's Theorem is and how Richard applied it before they can adequately debate it.

[free thoughtpolice]

Jaime Jupiter, Magda Mars, Sarah Saturn, now Lauren Lane... do all of his harem have twinned initials? :think:

[free thoughtpolice]

But the fact is that every sentence he writes, every way in which he tries so hard to understand stuff that others have hard-wired, even to the extent of resorting to Bayes Theorem to understand contentious matters of opinion, all scream 'autism' to those who know their subject matter.

He does that in order to try and present himself as a superior intellectual. But the truth is, Garbage In, Garbage Out. It throws most biblical critics for a loop because they have to figure out what Baye's Theorem is and how Richard applied it before they can adequately debate it.

Next thing you'll say that he is intentionally prolix and long-winded just because he's a pretentious cunt. :naughty:

[fuzzy]

Jaime Jupiter, Magda Mars, Sarah Saturn, now Lauren Lane... do all of his harem have twinned initials? :think:

I can hardly wait to hear from Ursula Uranus.

[rayshul]

Let's find out.

RICHARD CARRIER... I SUMMON THEE

It's my policy never to engage with y'all or go to your websites because I understand it's triggering and upsetting for you, so this is the only vehicle I'd use to communicate...

But it would be lovely if you could answer some of our pit questions, as above...

[Service Dog]

A while ago I was musing about this a lot, and I came up with the notion that we should all pick a religion and LARP it. i.e. take religion as roleplaying, much as you would in a CRPG.

I choose Mandaeism.

[fuzzy]

RICHARD CARRIER... I SUMMON THEE

[youtube]I_5si-fDcos[/youtube]

[feathers]

In other news, I dropped a plectrum mid-song during rehearsals with the band this afternoon, and was quite relieved to be able to finish the song with my fingers without anyone noticing. If it happens for real on the night, I should be able to manage.

Are yours made of platinum that you can't afford a few spares in your pocket?

[feathers]

Jaime Jupiter, Magda Mars, Sarah Saturn, now Lauren Lane... do all of his harem have twinned initials? :think:

What kind of planet is "Lane"?

[paddybrown]

In other news, I dropped a plectrum mid-song during rehearsals with the band this afternoon, and was quite relieved to be able to finish the song with my fingers without anyone noticing. If it happens for real on the night, I should be able to manage.

Are yours made of platinum that you can't afford a few spares in your pocket?

I can do that, but not without stopping playing for the time it takes to retrieve one. It's not like I played the whole rest of the rehearsal with my fingers.

[Shatterface]

That post hit a little close to home, so I found an online autism test & gave it a go.

https://psychology-tools.com/autism-spe ... /score.php

"Your score was 39 out of a possible 50. Scores in the 33-50 range indicate significant autistic traits (autism)."

Thinking of following up on this. It sure would explain a lot & might make a handy weapon when neurotypicals forget their privilege. Anyone know of any cheap but respectable ways to test for this?

I'm in the UK and even getting a referral for assessment as an adult is bloody difficult. Basically, unless the condition is impacting on your health you won't get a referral. It was only when my social interaction problems lead to depression that I got a referral and even that took months.

The actual assessment took 18 weeks. That involves tests to rule out other conditions, IQ tests, assessment by a speech therapist, autism specialists, and a complete medical and social history. They may even interview friends and family. There's also this test called an 'awkward moments' test about hypothetical social interactions which is very like the Voight-Kampf test in Blade Runner.

I'd pretty much figured out I was on the spectrum years earlier but since there's no 'treatment' there was did-all reason to be tested. It was only when I was transferred from a back-of-house data input job to a client-facing role that resulted in a number of predictably violent incidents and some time off work that I got an assessment and a transfer back to a more suitable job. As a general rule, if your client-base consists largely of drug-addicts and ex-offenders, don't expect someone with the social skills of a bonobo to deal with them.

[dog puke]

In other news, I dropped a plectrum mid-song during rehearsals with the band this afternoon, and was quite relieved to be able to finish the song with my fingers without anyone noticing. If it happens for real on the night, I should be able to manage.

Are yours made of platinum that you can't afford a few spares in your pocket?

Why didn't you just plectrum it up? :twatson:

[Shatterface]

Jaime Jupiter, Magda Mars, Sarah Saturn, now Lauren Lane... do all of his harem have twinned initials? :think:

They sound suspiciously like girl students from Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. If they ever do a film of Dickie's life, I expect a cameo by Stan Lee.