The Refuge of the Toads

Old subthreads
Steersman
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46381

Post by Steersman »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
:) Amen to that. Reminds me something said by my father - who had gone off to serve King and Country in 1939 or thereabouts; Royal Artillery ("where faith and glory lead") - to the effect of "wouldn't have missed it for a thousand dollars; wouldn't do it again for a million". I think it was a fairly common meme or perception from the era, but one of some utility these days. :-)
"You on any drugs, ma'am?" .... hey, where are you taking me?" :lol:
:-) "Those were the days my friend ..." Though "bad trips" were things that some people didn't come back from; "taking any crazy chance he could" - ah, the joys and pitfalls of youth.
Scented Nectar wrote:If you can remember doing acid in the 70s, then... what's the rest of that saying? </groaner I couldn't resist>
Sorry. Is that a real question? Or an allusion to the supposed damage it could cause? No doubt it affected some that way, but it seems clear that it didn't affect everyone similarly.
Scented Nectar wrote:Disclaimer: the above references to LSD are completely for comedy purposes and do not reflect reality. .... She doesn't even know what drugs really are, just that they are bad and to avoid them.
Yah, likely story. "Officer! Over here!" ;-)

Scented Nectar
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46382

Post by Scented Nectar »

Steersman wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Steersman wrote: <snip>
:) Amen to that. Reminds me something said by my father - who had gone off to serve King and Country in 1939 or thereabouts; Royal Artillery ("where faith and glory lead") - to the effect of "wouldn't have missed it for a thousand dollars; wouldn't do it again for a million". I think it was a fairly common meme or perception from the era, but one of some utility these days. :-)
"You on any drugs, ma'am?" .... hey, where are you taking me?" :lol:
:-) "Those were the days my friend ..." Though "bad trips" were things that some people didn't come back from; "taking any crazy chance he could" - ah, the joys and pitfalls of youth.
Scented Nectar wrote:If you can remember doing acid in the 70s, then... what's the rest of that saying? </groaner I couldn't resist>
Sorry. Is that a real question? Or an allusion to the supposed damage it could cause? No doubt it affected some that way, but it seems clear that it didn't affect everyone similarly.
Scented Nectar wrote:Disclaimer: the above references to LSD are completely for comedy purposes and do not reflect reality. .... She doesn't even know what drugs really are, just that they are bad and to avoid them.
Yah, likely story. "Officer! Over here!" ;-)
That was just me making bad jokes. Very few people actually thought they could fly and then jumped off of buildings. A friend once had a bit of a bad acid trip but she was fine afterwards with no real damage. Something I said reminded her strongly of her shitty mother (I impersonated her a little too well thinking I was being funny) while she was high and she freaked out a bit. I had to 'talk her down' as they used to call it, and reassure her that her mother couldn't get her here at the party we were at. She was safe, etc. Her mother was a complete cunt who once, right in front of me and a bunch of other people, started beating her up in the street as well as emptying their 'joint' bank account that she supposedly opened for her daughter. I guess she had to co-sign the account since it was opened before my friend was an adult, but it was my friend's money not her's.

Scented Nectar
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46383

Post by Scented Nectar »

Ok, a shower then back to the planet my ship's currently on. I'll vanity search for 'scented' back here later, Pit. :)

Malky
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46384

Post by Malky »

fuzzy wrote:http://i2.wp.com/cdn.wanderingpioneer.c ... rael11.jpg

I choose 4th from the left. Which do you choose?
Why choose one?

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46385

Post by MarcusAu »

Is their any way to get the youtube clips 'scented' - sorry I mean centered on the page?

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46386

Post by feathers »

Steersman wrote:Don't see it as totally stupid - just taken to ridiculous extremes. Was watching a movie the other night and after every break they gave the standard spiel: "contains violence and mature subjects ... viewer discretion is advised". Doesn't seem far removed from the essence of trigger warnings.
Apart from the fact that breaking off a film with commercials should be forbidden on penalty of the station directors having their limbs broken off, those things are trigger warnings - so to speak.

KiwiInOz
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46387

Post by KiwiInOz »

It's looking all black for the Wallabies tonight.


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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46389

Post by feathers »

DrokkIt wrote:It is... illogical.

Sorry, been watching Voyager all day.
Please state the nature of the emergency.

I started going through all of ST a few years ago, beginning with TOS - I'd only ever seen some loose episodes now and then over the years, so bingewatching them is a new experience.

I'm now just in Voyager which is decidedly weaker than DS9. But perhaps that's because I've seen to many of them and I'm beginning to get déja-vus every time they run into another alien entity which invariably damages their shields, stops the star ship in its tracks and threatens imminent warp core breach. Which is just about every episode. How did the Federation ever conquer space to begin with?

And I'm getting ever so slightly annoyed with small things like: they have a badge on which their livelihood depends, which is attached visibly to their uniform with some velcro to make it easier for the enemy to strip off. Put it elsewhere already! Stick it up your rectum so them stinkin aliens at least have something to remember you by when they remove it! And next time, don't manipulate an entire starship with crew through corrosive thunderstorms to save a crewmember.

Fortunately, there's the cynical holographic doctor to make up for much of this.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46390

Post by Shatterface »


MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46391

Post by MarcusAu »

Shatterface wrote: ...
Who ya gonna call?
[youtube][/youtube]

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46392

Post by MarcusAu »

Anyone (else) looking forward to American Gods?

[youtube][/youtube]

deLurch
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46393

Post by deLurch »

I find this oddly interesting.
Johnny Depp and his now ex-wife were married February 2015. They initiated their divorce May 2016.

She received $7 million out of the divorce settlement. She ended up announcing that she is donating that $7 million dollars to charities.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-heard ... o-charity/
She said in a statement, “As described in the restraining order and divorce settlement, money played no role for me personally and never has, except to the extent that I could donate it to charity and, in doing so, hopefully help those less able to defend themselves.”
Irrespective if you think she did a good or noble thing by donating the $7 million. I don't think she should deserve $7 million for a 13 month marriage.

screwtape
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46394

Post by screwtape »

Steersman wrote: As you indicated, and as you no doubt know though others might not, Trudeau and company have been a little overly cautious - "protecting us from ourselves" - with the upshot that the law apparently really only covers those who are terminally ill but not those in those "difficult groups".

But generally agree with you about "a personal decision available to all". Although "right mind" seems somewhat problematic as the apparent premise seems to be that if one wants to make that "final exit" then one is, ipso facto, not in "one's right mind". Sticky wickets.
I think you'll find that society is slowly coming to see that differently, and that the concept of a rational suicide is becoming accepted. We no longer care if old men in frocks declare it a mortal sin. We no longer prosecute those who attempt but fail to complete a suicide (what a splendid way of welcoming them back!) A large majority of us agree that those with terminal illness or untreatable physical suffering should be allowed to have their quietus. We seem to be a bit less sure about mental suffering, although we seem to have cottoned on to the concepts of mental cruelty being as bad as physical in divorce court, and that psychological torture is just as wrong as physical torture under the Geneva Conventions. We will get there.

It's strange that we should say suicide is no longer a crime but then go all out to infringe individual liberties to prevent someone doing it. Justified, we say, by the fact that they might not be 'in their right mind' and with a little treatment might see the world differently. Suicide was originally a crime, like murder, because it unlawfully deprived the monarch of one of his subjects. Although not quite property in recent times, a subject was a useful resource and the basis of the king's wealth and power. He could be sent into battle. His labours could be taxed. Killing him, or yourself, was stealing that income from the king. With society generally being organised in other ways now, we can afford to allow the individual liberties he couldn't have as a serf, so we don't prosecute self-murder. As to the 'right mind' thing, I use that as shorthand for having the capacity to understand the nature and implications of the decision to be made. It is very common to make such judgements - every week I would be asked by a lawyer if some elderly soul was fit to make a will, or have to decide if someone in early dementia who neglected himself had the capacity to understand the risks he was taking (if he did, carry on, but if not he got scooped up into a nursing home involuntarily). I believe that having determined that someone understands exactly what they are asking for in suicide, and that they are not operating under mental illness that makes that understanding impossible, and that they are not coerced, we have to stand back and ask ourselves if we have the right to stop them. Psychiatrists take it as a truism that a determined would-be suicide cannot be stopped. They will find a way, and making it a furtive, lonely, shameful, painful, lingering, or violent deed isn't going to stop them: it merely punishes them some more for having the weakness to want out. I'm in favour of removing medical input after that point as it is humane to physicians to not make them be involved, and there is a palpable squeamishness in the population at the idea that those they trust with their lives spend some of their working day killing people.

DrokkIt
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46395

Post by DrokkIt »

feathers wrote:
DrokkIt wrote:It is... illogical.

Sorry, been watching Voyager all day.
Please state the nature of the emergency.

I started going through all of ST a few years ago, beginning with TOS - I'd only ever seen some loose episodes now and then over the years, so bingewatching them is a new experience.

I'm now just in Voyager which is decidedly weaker than DS9. But perhaps that's because I've seen to many of them and I'm beginning to get déja-vus every time they run into another alien entity which invariably damages their shields, stops the star ship in its tracks and threatens imminent warp core breach. Which is just about every episode. How did the Federation ever conquer space to begin with?

And I'm getting ever so slightly annoyed with small things like: they have a badge on which their livelihood depends, which is attached visibly to their uniform with some velcro to make it easier for the enemy to strip off. Put it elsewhere already! Stick it up your rectum so them stinkin aliens at least have something to remember you by when they remove it! And next time, don't manipulate an entire starship with crew through corrosive thunderstorms to save a crewmember.

Fortunately, there's the cynical holographic doctor to make up for much of this.
Yeah if you watch all of trek in one long binge it's going to get very repetitive.
I watched them as they aired originally (not Kirk era, too young) so built it up over time. I think the best overall is probably Next Gen, DS9 has a superb long-arc to it and Voyager has more focus on personal drama.
Voyager gets decidedly better once Seven turns up as it's a pretty interesting character, much more depth than the Borg Queen etc. Also Jeri Ryan is 10/10 objective beauty standards.

KiwiInOz
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46396

Post by KiwiInOz »

MarcusAu wrote:Anyone (else) looking forward to American Gods?

[youtube][/youtube]
Hell yeah.

Keating
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46397

Post by Keating »

deLurch wrote:Irrespective if you think she did a good or noble thing by donating the $7 million. I don't think she should deserve $7 million for a 13 month marriage.
The most expensive hooker ever.

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46398

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Not delivering your promises after raking in the money via an online fundraiser? Has Milo seriously gone all Social Justice Warrior....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ilege-fund

CommanderTuvok
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46399

Post by CommanderTuvok »

BTW, Great Britain just clocked up gold medal number 25, with a couple more probably to come.

Australia, meanwhile, are still stuck on EIGHT!

Pity there is not a decent picture of a kangaroo crying.

Brive1987
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46400

Post by Brive1987 »


HunnyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46401

Post by HunnyBunny »

Are there any #AdoptDon'tShop pet adopting advocates here? I have a problem with this philosophy, but maybe I'm wrong.

To me this new movement that says pet breeding is wrong and people should never buy an animal as a pet is just a form of SJWism. It comes across as extremist and ill-informed. And sometimes plain dumb. However, I do acknowledge I am biased, having grown up with pedigree pets, and currently owning a dog of a specific breed, who we purchased from a registered breeder.

I have FFFs (Fucking Facebook Friends) who seem otherwise intelligent, but constantly post about how 'adopting' is the only ethical route to pet-owning. My objections are, in no particular order:

1. adoption (at least in France & UK) isn't free. In our part of France it costs €250, so these people are buying a pet.

2. along with the #adopt mantra, comes a plea to always neuter your pets. If all breeding should be stopped, and every pet is neutered then there will be no animals left. I can only assume that therefore these people are animal haters with the ultimate goal of removing cats and dogs from the face of the earth.

3. Many breeds have been around for hundreds, or in some case thousands, of years. No breeding would mean they all disappeared and only feral animals would be breeding, creating just one type of dog / cat / goldfish. I have found specific breeds can differ greatly from other breeds, and I wouldn't want to lose this diversity. Dogs used for jobs like care dogs, or sniffer dogs are specific breeds for a reason. Is it ok to breed those dogs still? Is it ok to breed horses - should we only adopt those as well because some people are mean to them or don't ethically breed them?

4. Animals in shelters are there because people, both breeders and owners, are stupid or mean or both. Only adopting animals won't stop people from being stupid or mean, it will just be that the nice people continue being nice, but with less opportunity to have a pet because there will be so few pets to go around. In short, it is people that are the problem, so perhaps we should do something about the people instead.

As I said, I acknowledge my love of certain breeds makes me biased. But also I hate extremists of any kind, and I am sceptical of the logic and claims made. If we didn't live in Hong Kong with the issue of no space, I probably would adopt a pet, along with the specific breed animals I like, if I found one that suited our family. I know that the recent rise in 'puppy farms' and unethical breeding for fashion traits is awful, but that comes back to people being a problem, and therefore we need to sort the people who are a problem.

So, any folk here who use the #adoptdon'tshop mantra care to put the other side?

gurugeorge
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46402

Post by gurugeorge »

Steersman wrote:Although as a bit of a quibble, I think that "saying that an objective reality exists" is somewhat of a premise rather than an iron-clad fact. Seems to make much more sense than any alternatives on tap, and there seems to be many facts to support the contention, but I don't know that it's actually been proven in any sense similar to what you'd find in geometry or algebra.
Since I'm particularly interested in the philosophy behind this, I'll chip in here. The problem is that the modern philosophy of the 17th and 18th centuries (Descartes, Berkeley, Locke, Leibniz, Hume, Kant, etc.) painted itself into a corner, a corner called "representationalism", i.e. the idea that what we perceive in the first instance isn't things which exist independently of us, but intermediary representations that are part of us ("sense-data", "qualia", etc.). Think of it like we have a painting in our "minds" (whatever they are) and that painting "represents" reality in some way.

That idea initially seemed plausible (as it arose partly from considerations of art re. perspective, partly from the general scientific development of the day) but the trouble is it leads directly to an un-answerable global scepticism, because the gap between representation and reality a) is logically unbridgeable (no way of proving that the painting truly represents what's "out there"), and b) leads to a mind/body dualism (the stuff of the painting must be "mental", different from the stuff that's "out there"). Kant was the philosopher who sort of split the difference and allowed a truce in a sense, but Kant's was always an unstable position, and Kant's ideas led in various ways to ideas like social construction.

Now counter to this, there's always been a strain in philosophy that disagreed with the very idea of representationalism, that held we are directly aware of a mind-independent reality, that what we perceive in the first instance is that mind-independent reality. That was in fact the dominant strain in philosophy till the modern period (Aristotle was the main man in that sense), and it always had a few strong proponents here and there even during the modern period (e.g. Thomas Reid, who brilliantly countered Hume; C.S.Pierce, a few others).

And indeed, the cutting edge of modern modern philosophy is going back to that (the later Wittgenstein led the way in some respects, then you have people like Kripke and Putnam, and more recently Dennett and others, who have been gradually moving away from representationalism). But the trouble is, as per Keynes' famous saying about the thoughts of long-dead thinkers influencing us today, the "aftershocks" of the 17th/18th century period and its accompanying global-sceptical problematic are with us today in Postmodernism, which on one side arises from the post-Kantian developments in German Idealism (Hegel and Heidegger are the big names here, still a massive, core influence) and on the other side (in the US, with things like Richard Rorty's pragmatic relativism) comes from out of the English-speaking analytic tradition (which was itself originally a kind of reaction to Idealism, but was still essentially Kantian in essence).

Being philosophy of course, this is all much more complex than I'm making it out here and there are many other extremely difficult philosophical problems interwoven with all this, and I haven't even addressed the actual arguments, but this is just to reassure you that the patterns of thought that lead to global scepticism aren't necessarily as compelling as they at first seemed to thinkers in the 17th/18th centuries, or to beginning philosophy students today. Direct Realism is making a comeback, Aristotle is discussed more (particularly in ethics) and there are other developments that are in a similar area that are getting more popular (e.g. something called Externalism, which has cognitive, semantic and phenomenal varieties). I think in the next hundred years or so, the Enlightenment will get the philosophical backing it needs and deserves, but didn't quite get from its initial founding thinkers. (It's nobody's fault in a way, this is just all incredibly difficult.)

But it'll probably take another hundred years for the effects of that to filter through to hoi polloi, and meanwhile we're still having to deal with the aftershocks from the philosophical cul-de-sac of the 17th/18th centuries - which is, the whole axis of Postmodernism, which in combination with Left or Right politics and genetic connection back to both Communism and Fascism, and mixed in with either religion or the God-shaped hole that's left when religion is discredited, leads to the modern strains of collectivism.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46403

Post by feathers »

DrokkIt wrote:Yeah if you watch all of trek in one long binge it's going to get very repetitive.
I watched them as they aired originally (not Kirk era, too young) so built it up over time. I think the best overall is probably Next Gen, DS9 has a superb long-arc to it and Voyager has more focus on personal drama.
Voyager gets decidedly better once Seven turns up as it's a pretty interesting character, much more depth than the Borg Queen etc. Also Jeri Ryan is 10/10 objective beauty standards.
So far, Jennifer Lien (Kes) is doing a good job keeping my, eh, spirits up. That's also the only redeeming quality of her character; Neelix is annoying because he's written to be, but I doubt Kes was written to be blonde.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46404

Post by Shatterface »

I hate it when I get half way through a post about aliens and space pirates and realise you guys are just talking about a game.

Shatterface
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46405

Post by Shatterface »

Keating wrote:
deLurch wrote:Irrespective if you think she did a good or noble thing by donating the $7 million. I don't think she should deserve $7 million for a 13 month marriage.
The most expensive hooker ever.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016081 ... c8933c.jpg

gurugeorge
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46406

Post by gurugeorge »

gurugeorge wrote:But it'll probably take another hundred years for the effects of that to filter through to hoi polloi, and meanwhile we're still having to deal with the aftershocks from the philosophical cul-de-sac of the 17th/18th centuries - which is, the whole axis of Postmodernism, which in combination with Left or Right politics and genetic connection back to both Communism and Fascism, and mixed in with either religion or the God-shaped hole that's left when religion is discredited, leads to the modern strains of collectivism.
Should add to that last paragraph, the absolute key figure from 17th/18th century modern philosophy on the political side is Rousseau, a near contemporary of Kant, whose ideas had a partly good and partly bad influence. On the good side, he strongly influenced the development of the democratic ideal, on the bad side, his ideas had a collectivist streak that, when mixed with other influences, led to both Communism and Fascism (in a nutshell, Rousseau+Fichte+(partial misinterpretation of) Nietzsche= Fascism, Rousseau+Hegel+Marx=Communism).

Service Dog
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46407

Post by Service Dog »

HunnyBunny wrote:Are there any #AdoptDon'tShop pet adopting advocates here? I have a problem with this philosophy, but maybe I'm wrong.

To me this new movement that says pet breeding is wrong and people should never buy an animal as a pet is just a form of SJWism. It comes across as extremist and ill-informed. And sometimes plain dumb. However, I do acknowledge I am biased, having grown up with pedigree pets, and currently owning a dog of a specific breed, who we purchased from a registered breeder.

I have FFFs (Fucking Facebook Friends) who seem otherwise intelligent, but constantly post about how 'adopting' is the only ethical route to pet-owning. My objections are, in no particular order:

1. adoption (at least in France & UK) isn't free. In our part of France it costs €250, so these people are buying a pet.

2. along with the #adopt mantra, comes a plea to always neuter your pets. If all breeding should be stopped, and every pet is neutered then there will be no animals left. I can only assume that therefore these people are animal haters with the ultimate goal of removing cats and dogs from the face of the earth.

3. Many breeds have been around for hundreds, or in some case thousands, of years. No breeding would mean they all disappeared and only feral animals would be breeding, creating just one type of dog / cat / goldfish. I have found specific breeds can differ greatly from other breeds, and I wouldn't want to lose this diversity. Dogs used for jobs like care dogs, or sniffer dogs are specific breeds for a reason. Is it ok to breed those dogs still? Is it ok to breed horses - should we only adopt those as well because some people are mean to them or don't ethically breed them?

4. Animals in shelters are there because people, both breeders and owners, are stupid or mean or both. Only adopting animals won't stop people from being stupid or mean, it will just be that the nice people continue being nice, but with less opportunity to have a pet because there will be so few pets to go around. In short, it is people that are the problem, so perhaps we should do something about the people instead.

As I said, I acknowledge my love of certain breeds makes me biased. But also I hate extremists of any kind, and I am sceptical of the logic and claims made. If we didn't live in Hong Kong with the issue of no space, I probably would adopt a pet, along with the specific breed animals I like, if I found one that suited our family. I know that the recent rise in 'puppy farms' and unethical breeding for fashion traits is awful, but that comes back to people being a problem, and therefore we need to sort the people who are a problem.

So, any folk here who use the #adoptdon'tshop mantra care to put the other side?
Many of your points rely on reductio ad absurdum, but the absurdity you highlight is distant or hypothetical (genocide of all domestic animals). You sound silly. While the pro-adoption crowd can point to immediate, grave harm in the status quo (surplus of good, unwanted pets being put to death in alarming numbers).

If your actual objection is to the way people on facebook advocate their positions (all-or-nothing easy-answer slogans which dont acknowledge legitimate competing values) then THAT is the sjw-ism you should name as your adversary & demote the pet adoption issue to a case-in-point.

Be aware that your opponent being more-right on the pet issue will appear as-if they're also right on the how-to-argue issue, unless you explicitly note they're making losing arguments for a winning issue. "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

Service Dog
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46408

Post by Service Dog »

Im trying a mindful meditation app called Calm. Not sure if it's new age baloney, or not something I need, or I just havent done it enough to see the point, yet.

I am not a fan of being told to breathe into my ankles & other impossible feats.

Today I did Day 3-- a 10-minute guided body-awareness meditation-- in the dark, on the toilet. No poop emerged. Ive long admired the Church of the Subgenius calling the bathroom the Excremeditation Chamber. Am pooping as I write this now.

Also, I just read advice on a bodybuilding forum, to a lifter who snacked on half a bottle of Fiber Gummies: "Don't push, wiggle". Sounds legit.

Tigzy
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46409

Post by Tigzy »

HunnyBunny wrote: 2. along with the #adopt mantra, comes a plea to always neuter your pets. If all breeding should be stopped, and every pet is neutered then there will be no animals left. I can only assume that therefore these people are animal haters with the ultimate goal of removing cats and dogs from the face of the earth.
No. Horseshit. I have a friend who volunteers for Cats Protection, and their regular pleas to 'get your cat(s) neutered' are for the benefit of regular folks who can (all too often) be pig ignorant and negligent about caring for their pets. The message is clearly not aimed at responsible pet owners who are considering breeding. It's for the dumbasses such as - and this is one RL example of many - a family who had a cat, allowed this cat to have a litter of kittens (because they didn't know she was pregnant. Somehow), most of which died because they fed the poor fucking things on dog food, and only then decided they couldn't cope and contactred cats protection so that they could take away the mother and one last remaining kitten that was so infested, worms were literally crawling out of its arse. These cats came into the care of my pal, who worked her arse off to bring these cats back to a reasonable shape and put them up for adoption. The simple fact is that if this exceedingly stupid family had listened to orgs such as Cats Protection in the first place, and had their cat neutered (Cats Protection will also give you discount neutering vouchers, so you can get it done dirt cheap) a lot of suffering could have been avoided.

And this sort of thing happens all the time, directly as a result of not getting a pet neutered: abandoned cats, diseased cats, litters of cats in the care of people who haven't a clue how to look after them, cats falling prey to illnesses such as FIV because of roaming, aggressive unneutered toms, and more often than not, cats which become the responsibility of orgs like Cats Protection, which is overstretched as it is and staffed largely by unpaid (other than certain expenses) volunteers who often have to hold down full time jobs alongside caring for the cats which come into their care. And it can be pretty unpleasant job, if the experiences of my pal are anything to go by. There's frequently a whole lot of diarrhoea and vomit to clean up.

So I'm all for encouraging people to get their pets neutered, so long as we lack the means to prevent dipshits from having pets.

(Admittedly, I'm only going by what I've seen as regards Cats Protection, but I suspect much the same applies to orgs such as the Dogs Trust)

blitzem
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46410

Post by blitzem »

MarcusAu wrote:Anyone (else) looking forward to American Gods?

[youtube][/youtube]
Thanks for posting this. Looks terrific.

I loved the novel, but then I think Gaiman is an exceptional talent. Neverwhere and Anansi Boys were great. Haven't read Ocean at the End of the Lane yet.

blitzem
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46411

Post by blitzem »

deLurch wrote:I find this oddly interesting.
Johnny Depp and his now ex-wife were married February 2015. They initiated their divorce May 2016.

She received $7 million out of the divorce settlement. She ended up announcing that she is donating that $7 million dollars to charities.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-heard ... o-charity/
She said in a statement, “As described in the restraining order and divorce settlement, money played no role for me personally and never has, except to the extent that I could donate it to charity and, in doing so, hopefully help those less able to defend themselves.”
Irrespective if you think she did a good or noble thing by donating the $7 million. I don't think she should deserve $7 million for a 13 month marriage.
Maybe that's what it costs these days to buy your way out of domestic abuse charges?

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

HunnyBunny wrote:Are there any #AdoptDon'tShop pet adopting advocates here? I have a problem with this philosophy, but maybe I'm wrong.
As someone who's volunteered for small animal rescues, and has just founded an horse rescue, let me tackle these.

1. adoption (at least in France & UK) isn't free. In our part of France it costs €250, so these people are buying a pet.
Adoption fees do seem to be rising over time. Part of their purpose is to ensure the prospective adopter is serious; the rest is to generate revenue. In my experience, many rescues often rely too heavily on adoption fees for revenue, instead of grants, donations, etc. High adoption fees are a disincentive to the very behavior -- adoption -- these orgs are trying to promote.
2. along with the #adopt mantra, comes a plea to always neuter your pets. If all breeding should be stopped, and every pet is neutered then there will be no animals left. I can only assume that therefore these people are animal haters with the ultimate goal of removing cats and dogs from the face of the earth.
PETA & similar radicals would like to exterminate all pets, a coup de grace to end the slavery.

Animal rescue orgs promote neutering to cut down on the excess of animals. They know that breeding will continue. A lot of pet owners allow field breeding to occur, then scramble to dump a litter of kittens.

In the US, there are no licensing requirements to animal breeding. For dogs and horses especially, that leads to a bunch of ignorant wannabes producing some sorry creatures -- that of course are of no use for their intended purpose and thus add to the excess of unwanted animals.

3. Many breeds have been around for hundreds, or in some case thousands, of years. No breeding would mean they all disappeared and only feral animals would be breeding, creating just one type of dog / cat / goldfish. I have found specific breeds can differ greatly from other breeds, and I wouldn't want to lose this diversity. Dogs used for jobs like care dogs, or sniffer dogs are specific breeds for a reason. Is it ok to breed those dogs still? Is it ok to breed horses - should we only adopt those as well because some people are mean to them or don't ethically breed them?
IMO, breeding should only be done by professionals. Even then, the various communities of breed fanciers are so incestuous, and the key, desirable traits in the animals so limited and over-emphasized, that a lot of bad traits are accepted, to the detriment of the animals. A few examples:

breed/ desired trait / neg. side-effect
Border collies / narrow noses / small brain cases leading to retardation
Boxers / wide mouths / incessant drooling
Certain hounds / fleshy jowls / exposed eyeballs
Arabs / pronounced 'dish' in nose / breathing problems
Quarterhorses / stocky conformation / extreme 'muscle bound' physique

All sorts of undesirable behavioral traits are also tolerated. There was a local warmblood stud who was very popular, who also threw cryptorchids with nasty dispositions (I had the pleasure of starting one of his uncut colts.) The owner finally gelded the bastard.

For purebred dogs, Temple Grandin suggests two generations of cross-breeding to clear out all the bad inbred traits. NB: dogs have been bred for centuries for specific roles, but the inbreeding for specific features is more recent.

4. Animals in shelters are there because people, both breeders and owners, are stupid or mean or both. Only adopting animals won't stop people from being stupid or mean, it will just be that the nice people continue being nice, but with less opportunity to have a pet because there will be so few pets to go around. In short, it is people that are the problem, so perhaps we should do something about the people instead.
Far from a risk of running out of pets, there's currently not enough homes for the animals that exist. That's the immediate crisis that needs to be addressed until the ultimate causes can be remedied.

As I said, I acknowledge my love of certain breeds makes me biased. But also I hate extremists of any kind, and I am sceptical of the logic and claims made. If we didn't live in Hong Kong with the issue of no space, I probably would adopt a pet, along with the specific breed animals I like, if I found one that suited our family. I know that the recent rise in 'puppy farms' and unethical breeding for fashion traits is awful, but that comes back to people being a problem, and therefore we need to sort the people who are a problem.
I have my preferences, but specific breeds don't hold much appeal to me, rather than disposition. I'm not going to judge people for whom breeds are desirable -- aside from noting that a lot of people use them as status symbols.

I would require all breeders to be licensed, with a portion of the fees going toward rescue.

Breed fancier communities should also promote sound breeding practices, and discourage tolerating bad physical or behavior traits as a by-product.

For most prospective dog owners, a nice mongrel will likely have a better disposition and fewer health issues than a purebred.

People should also be more open to adopting older animals or ones with health issues. Euthanization or a sad life in a cage is often their prospect.

Promoting neutering is essential to reducing the surplus of homeless animals. We're a long, long way from the surplus changing to a shortage.

Spike13
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by Spike13 »

Couch wrote:

My duaghter has been instructed by her teacher to put a "trigger warning" on her groups school project video because it referenced suicide.

You cannot, will not win.
There is a new Facebook page "Trigger me timbers" it has send up's of triggering. Not quite up to Slymepit standards. But good non the less.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46414

Post by feathers »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Animal rescue orgs promote neutering to cut down on the excess of animals. They know that breeding will continue. A lot of pet owners allow field breeding to occur, then scramble to dump a litter of kittens.
The logical long-term solution, then, is to neuter the owners.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46415

Post by Tigzy »

CommanderTuvok wrote:BTW, Great Britain just clocked up gold medal number 25, with a couple more probably to come.

Australia, meanwhile, are still stuck on EIGHT!

Pity there is not a decent picture of a kangaroo crying.
Got even more golds than China at present, which I have to admit seems a bit too good to be true. Yep, I know the UK's reaping the rewards of a long term lottery cash investment, but even so. I hope to fuck there's no doping involved.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46416

Post by MarcusAu »

feathers wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Animal rescue orgs promote neutering to cut down on the excess of animals. They know that breeding will continue. A lot of pet owners allow field breeding to occur, then scramble to dump a litter of kittens.
The logical long-term solution, then, is to neuter the owners.
Historically, muslims tried this - it really nipped the Middle-Eastern BLM movement in the bud (so to speak).

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by Kirbmarc »

Steersman wrote: In any case, somewhat apropos of your analysis, I ran across an old post from Brendan O'Neill arguing that Feminism becomes more like Islamism every day; a salient quote or two:
Here’s a tip for political activists: if your rabble-rousing echoes the behaviour and ideas of Islamists, then you’re doing something wrong. Consider the Protein World advert which — clutch my pearls! — features a photo of a beautiful, svelte woman in a bikini next to the question: ‘Are you beach body ready?’ Angry women, and probably some men, have been writing outraged slogans on these posters, scribbling on the poor model’s face and body, seemingly blissfully unaware that they’re following in the footsteps of intolerant Islamic agitators. ....
Let's deport all feminists, except those who piss on Andrea Dworkin's books.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46418

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

feathers wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Animal rescue orgs promote neutering to cut down on the excess of animals. They know that breeding will continue. A lot of pet owners allow field breeding to occur, then scramble to dump a litter of kittens.
The logical long-term solution, then, is to neuter the owners.
I favor darting humans with NorPlants.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by JackSkeptic »

Tigzy wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:BTW, Great Britain just clocked up gold medal number 25, with a couple more probably to come.

Australia, meanwhile, are still stuck on EIGHT!

Pity there is not a decent picture of a kangaroo crying.
Got even more golds than China at present, which I have to admit seems a bit too good to be true. Yep, I know the UK's reaping the rewards of a long term lottery cash investment, but even so. I hope to fuck there's no doping involved.
The reason is simple and does not need doping to explain it. The Lottery cash was allocated on merit and focused only on those athletes who could show they had a chance of success. In some ways it is a brutal system but highly effective and highly motivating. So the cash allocation was focused and not spread thinly. The UK has far less actual entries than China across fewer sports. There was also a lot spent on ground roots facilities which bred new generations of athletes.

The whole approach is the total opposite of how an SJW would do it and I suspect the way many other countries do it too. They hate meritocracy and this 'medals for all' mentality is killing a lot of competitors chances through lack of funding.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46420

Post by free thoughtpolice »

I'm in the middle on the pet adoption thing at least with dogs, as here at any rate ther aren't a lot of dogs available for adoption. There seems to be plenty of cats available for adoption.
I had the misfortune of living beside feral cat hoarders and it was fucking disgusting. Not only did they devastate the local bird population, but they were a huge nuisance.
There were cat fights 24/7 and litters getting dropped all over the place.The females would drive off the toms when they reached a certain age, that would wander off and go full feral, only to return from time to time to breed and kill kittens. On several occasions I would find kittens crawling around my yard with their heads half chewed off and eyes hanging out mewling pitifully which I would have the unpleasant job of finishing off and burying.
The old couple responsible were masterful passive aggressive whiners that managed to guilt the local SPCA types to pretty much leave them alone for a long time, so this went on for years.
Some of the cruelest people around are "animal lovers".

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46421

Post by feathers »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
feathers wrote:The logical long-term solution, then, is to neuter the owners.
I favor darting humans with NorPlants.
Peanuts. Try shooting one of these in place from a distance:

http://sites.path.org/rhtech/files/2013 ... s_CBAS.jpg

DrokkIt
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46422

Post by DrokkIt »

feathers wrote:
DrokkIt wrote:Yeah if you watch all of trek in one long binge it's going to get very repetitive.
I watched them as they aired originally (not Kirk era, too young) so built it up over time. I think the best overall is probably Next Gen, DS9 has a superb long-arc to it and Voyager has more focus on personal drama.
Voyager gets decidedly better once Seven turns up as it's a pretty interesting character, much more depth than the Borg Queen etc. Also Jeri Ryan is 10/10 objective beauty standards.
So far, Jennifer Lien (Kes) is doing a good job keeping my, eh, spirits up. That's also the only redeeming quality of her character; Neelix is annoying because he's written to be, but I doubt Kes was written to be blonde.

You may find that the episode I mentioned where Seven comes in also deals with some of the above.

Old_ones
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46423

Post by Old_ones »

d4m10n wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote: Is this basically a precog account of Elyse's future? Sure sounds like one.
If anyone wants to support her legal fund (or what-have-you) there is a handy URL:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016081 ... c8933c.jpg
Pay to date Elyse?! :lol:

You'd have to be damaged to date that shit for free. I would sooner cut off my dick than stick it in Elyse; less chance of enduring problems for which there is no cure.

Tigzy
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46424

Post by Tigzy »

In other news, Burnley striker Andre Gray, who today found his moment of glory in being instrumental in defeating Liverpool 2-0, has had some old tweets unearthed. Social media furore has ensued owing to their paucity of political correctness:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqUcw1wWAAAWVDc.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqUbbx-WgAE1YiH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqUacbVWAAAJBQ_.jpg

That said, those claiming the following tweet is racist are wrong, because Gray is a PoC - ergo, he can't be racist:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqUcw1PW8AEfWve.jpg

So it's quite safe to laugh at this one, as I did. :lol:

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46425

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Spike13 wrote:
Couch wrote:

My duaghter has been instructed by her teacher to put a "trigger warning" on her groups school project video because it referenced suicide.

You cannot, will not win.
There is a new Facebook page "Trigger me timbers" it has send up's of triggering. Not quite up to Slymepit standards. But good non the less.
Seems like Failbook took it down.

BarnOwl
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

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Post by BarnOwl »

Spike13 wrote:
Many folks don't really see themselves as they actually present to other people.

Pizzy has cultivated his "frumpy professor" look for some time. I guess he sees that as the ideal for himself. Tossled, unkempt, rumpled. As if the act of dressing and hygiene are beyond his concern. He us bigger things to occupy his time, his mind too full scientific inquirery for such mundane concerns.

But there is a fine line between stylish precise disarray and looking like a slob. Pizzy has more than crossed the line, he's down the street and around the corner. Greasy looking hair, outgrown pubic hair looking beard, always wrinkled clothes. I've never met him, but he looks like he smells awful. I would be hesitant to strike up a conversation for fear of having to endure BO or halitosis breath. It's quite off putting, and rude to those around you, that you couldn't be bothered to show up presentable.

And the ugly? That's your nasty vindictive little man personality where that truly comes through.
I can pretty much guarantee that he's emulating some of his grad school professors, some of whom are/were indeed brilliant scientists, and many of whom cultivated a disheveled, too-busy-thinking-great-thoughts appearance. For some academic scientists I've worked with, the rumpledness extends to indifferent grooming habits and poor personal hygiene. For US universities, the attitude can be a manifestation of male privilege - I can think of maybe one woman I've known who had a similar disregard for personal appearance (and she's a National Academy member and has an extremely well-funded research lab, so basically she can tell critics to fuck off). But lots of men in science, who have varying levels of success, cultivate the disheveled appearance, and some will in fact openly criticize female students and colleagues for appearing to spend any amount of thought or effort on clothing, grooming, make-up, etc. Ask me how I know. They might even use those Chinese grad students who don't seem to care about appearance and grooming as an example of how to behave.

At medical schools there's often a huge disconnect between the dress and grooming habits of the clinicians and those of the basic scientists. Some of this has to do with pay disparity, but most of it is probably cultural. I direct a med school course with two clinicians (also women), and they always look like a million bucks. Hair, make-up, clothes, shoes, jewelry, etc. No way can I afford to match that, but I do keep my clothes clean and ironed, and I'm a well-groomed person who's rather vain about her hair. :P

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46427

Post by comhcinc »

feathers wrote:
comhcinc wrote:
Clarence wrote: Fair enough.
Good luck with the rugrats(what my dad used to call me and my brothers) and especially your mom.
I normally call mine assholes, fuckheads, or a bunch of little cunts.
This gets especially exciting when one of them enters the classroom in the morning and greets her comrades with "Good morning, cunts".

I've told the kids I don't care if they curse as long as they do it properly, because proper english is important. I have also told them that they curse at their own peril and I won't back them up with anyone. I have gone so far to say I will deny knowing their curse and throw them under the bus if I need to.

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46428

Post by comhcinc »

feathers wrote:
comhcinc wrote:Oh and on the menstruating thing. My wife would use a menstrual cup. She liked it and it worked pretty good.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/ ... iginal.jpg
But you have to hold it under your honey pot all the time, now that's awkward.

Which is what I thought but it just fits snuggly in place.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46429

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Russian spy Julian Assange also out to fuck up your computer:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/19 ... ment_dump/

Also, it appears ex-Trump campaign manager Paul Mantofort is under investigation for connections to Russian-Ukraine activities.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46430

Post by Shatterface »

My English Lit tutor taught Willy Russell and inspired the Michael Caine character in Educating Rita. He could pull off the 'disheveled professor' bit.

Alcohol helps.

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46431

Post by comhcinc »

MarcusAu wrote:Anyone (else) looking forward to American Gods?

[youtube][/youtube]

It's not on my radar enough to look forward to it. Don't know how well it will translate to the picture shows but I will most likely check it out when it's time.

I really like the books.

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46432

Post by comhcinc »

DrokkIt wrote: Also Jeri Ryan is 10/10 objective beauty standards.
No.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 48873).jpg

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46433

Post by screwtape »

feathers wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
feathers wrote:The logical long-term solution, then, is to neuter the owners.
I favor darting humans with NorPlants.
Peanuts. Try shooting one of these in place from a distance:

http://sites.path.org/rhtech/files/2013 ... s_CBAS.jpg
I don't know if you have ever handled one, but they are great fun to teach. The spring in the rim is quite strong, and when lubricated it is prone to go flying as you squeeze the thing into an ellipse for insertion. Teaching someone to insert and remove usually involves a lot of giggles and always leads to dirty looks from the folks in the waiting room. I also have a set of rings to use to decide what size of diaphragm to prescribe. They go from about 1.5" up to about 4". Before you all go :o , remember the device lives obliquely in the vagina, not perpendicular to the length of the vagina (though it is certainly common enough to have the experience of throwing a sausage down a hallway).

DrokkIt
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46434

Post by DrokkIt »

comhcinc wrote:
DrokkIt wrote: Also Jeri Ryan is 10/10 objective beauty standards.
No.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 48873).jpg

Sexism : BLOCKED

comhcinc
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46435

Post by comhcinc »

HunnyBunny wrote:So, any folk here who use the #adoptdon'tshop mantra care to put the other side?

No, I would like to see more regulations and enforcement when it comes to breeding. Way too many puppy mils out there but is what? Stays fucking in the streets? Sexy sure but not the best approach.

My only issue with what you said is #4. Some people just get in situations where they can't keep their animals and have no choice to give them up.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46436

Post by MarcusAu »

Shatterface wrote:My English Lit tutor taught Willy Russell and inspired the Michael Caine character in Educating Rita. He could pull off the 'disheveled professor' bit.

Alcohol helps.
I liked his singing, and always think of him when passing Mornington Cresent (where is blue plaque is on the wall).

[youtube][/youtube]

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46437

Post by MarcusAu »

comhcinc wrote:
MarcusAu wrote:Anyone (else) looking forward to American Gods?

[youtube.][/youtube]

It's not on my radar enough to look forward to it. Don't know how well it will translate to the picture shows but I will most likely check it out when it's time.

I really like the books.
I believe that Gaiman is involved in adapting it to TV - and has talked about expanding the plot, so there is much new to look forward to.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46438

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Tigzy wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:BTW, Great Britain just clocked up gold medal number 25, with a couple more probably to come.
Got even more golds than China at present, which I have to admit seems a bit too good to be true.
Yes, but the medals are made in China, so they have the last laugh.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46439

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

screwtape wrote:
feathers wrote: Peanuts. Try shooting one of these in place from a distance:

http://sites.path.org/rhtech/files/2013 ... s_CBAS.jpg
I don't know if you have ever handled one, but they are great fun to teach. The spring in the rim is quite strong, and when lubricated it is prone to go flying as you squeeze the thing into an ellipse for insertion.
I once witnessed one hit the ceiling.

dog puke
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#46440

Post by dog puke »

It's my birthday... send me dog food and biscuits.

Locked