The Refuge of the Toads

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.

I wouldn't say it's a tiny problem, but it's not the only or the biggest issue with Islam, either. It's part of a continuum of bad ideas, but unlike those other bad ideas, we actually know how to address it, the laws are there, they're just not applied consistently. And we could easily reduce it if we simply cut the funding from our "allies" to people who preach violent messages and if we didn't make deals with "community leaders" who preach anti-Western ideas or allowed privileges for Muslim inmates in our prisons out of political correctness.

Luckily poison gas and nuclear weapons are pretty hard to get your hands on, very expensive and hard to use. Even explosives aren't extremely easy to find or use, and leave behind clues and paper trails. Guns are much cheaper, easier to find and use and easier to smuggle. It's not a coincidence that most terrorist attacks in the last years are committed by people who use guns, machetes and axes (even cheaper and easier to find than guns, although far less efficient) and occasionally some improvised explosive devices.

Hell, even 9/11 was required only fifteen goons with box cutters and fake bombs and four badly and quickly trained airplane pilots.

The biggest issue with nuclear weapons and Islam is a possible collapse/civil war in Pakistan, which is a nuclear power, and even in that case the moment some lunatics look even remotely likely to get their hands on a nuke it's the moment when India or China invade the country, possibly with the support of Russia or even the US.

Perhaps it may have changed since 2011, but the biggest risk of a nuke going missing arises from Pakistan moving their nukes around in poorly protected vans. They apparently started doing this to protect their nukes, oddly enough. Theory is that military convoys would draw attention.

[VickyCaramel]

9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.

I wouldn't say it's a tiny problem, but it's not the only or the biggest issue with Islam, either. It's part of a continuum of bad ideas, but unlike those other bad ideas, we actually know how to address it, the laws are there, they're just not applied consistently. And we could easily reduce it if we simply cut the funding from our "allies" to people who preach violent messages and if we didn't make deals with "community leaders" who preach anti-Western ideas or allowed privileges for Muslim inmates in our prisons out of political correctness.

Luckily poison gas and nuclear weapons are pretty hard to get your hands on, very expensive and hard to use. Even explosives aren't extremely easy to find or use, and leave behind clues and paper trails. Guns are much cheaper, easier to find and use and easier to smuggle. It's not a coincidence that most terrorist attacks in the last years are committed by people who use guns, machetes and axes (even cheaper and easier to find than guns, although far less efficient) and occasionally some improvised explosive devices.

Hell, even 9/11 was required only fifteen goons with box cutters and fake bombs and four badly and quickly trained airplane pilots.

The biggest issue with nuclear weapons and Islam is a possible collapse/civil war in Pakistan, which is a nuclear power, and even in that case the moment some lunatics look even remotely likely to get their hands on a nuke it's the moment when India or China invade the country, possibly with the support of Russia or even the US.

+1

Lets say that somehow ISIS managed to get enough VX out of Syria's stockpile, and somehow managed to disperse it, what would the result be?
Let's say they managed to hit a sports stadium, killed 30k people, (This is absurdly unlikely) the response would be cataclysmic. The whole Western world would lose it's shit and anything would be justified as a response... the gloves would come off. The Chinese and Russian also have cause for concern and I'm not even sure they own gloves.

We would be in quite good shape, and all it would cost us is the deaths of 30k, keeping in mind that this is now effectively a world war with virtually the whole world on our side.

So pick a war in our history, take a look at the casualty figures of combatants and civilians. Thirty thousand is a pretty low number.

Terrorism is always a small problem, it is the response to it which can grow to epic proportions or have significant consequences. Here lies one of the problems with which is going on at the moment, terrorism is being conflated with the war in Syria/Iraq, various political situations in the Middle East, Africa, Pakistan and Turkey, Mass immigration in mainland Europe, and islamification in countries like the UK with existing muslim populations. Terrorism is being used to highlight all these issues, but terrorism isn't actually the threat that these situations pose.

[KiwiInOz]

I'm thinking about maybe going to the beach this afternoon with a colander on my head and sit not too far from a dressed woman wearing the hijab. If the police wants to remove her, I shall intervene and explain that the colander is a symbol of my religion, so they'll have to remove me as well. Then, I'll explain to them how ridiculous they will look when the local newspaper title "police removes man from beach for wearing colander on his head".

:think:

With your luck you'll get little spots of sunburn all over your forehead.

And he might feel drained.

[Kirbmarc]

+1

Lets say that somehow ISIS managed to get enough VX out of Syria's stockpile, and somehow managed to disperse it, what would the result be?
Let's say they managed to hit a sports stadium, killed 30k people, (This is absurdly unlikely) the response would be cataclysmic. The whole Western world would lose it's shit and anything would be justified as a response... the gloves would come off. The Chinese and Russian also have cause for concern and I'm not even sure they own gloves.

If such an attack happened, a huge number of Muslims who live in West would probably get the hell out of Dodge on their own, and immigration would be virtually stopped for the next twenty years. Good luck getting Salafi clerics in position of power anywhere in the West. Saudi Arabia would also be royally screwed, and the Saudi lobby would be made illegal. Not to mention the fact that someone would probably nuke Syria.

ISIS are crazy, but the people who supply them and make business with them aren't this suicidally crazy. Also, as I wrote, equipping a team of barely trained expendable pawns with rifles is one thing, getting your hands on the Syrian VX stockpile and smuggling nerve gas from Syria to the West is another. To say nothing of the fact that without a decent delivery system (a warhead or a sophisticated enough explosive) it's pretty hard to use VX for mass murder.

Terrorism is always a small problem, it is the response to it which can grow to epic proportions or have significant consequences. Here lies one of the problems with which is going on at the moment, terrorism is being conflated with the war in Syria/Iraq, various political situations in the Middle East, Africa, Pakistan and Turkey, Mass immigration in mainland Europe, and islamification in countries like the UK with existing muslim populations. Terrorism is being used to highlight all these issues, but terrorism isn't actually the threat that these situations pose.

Better yet: it's not the only or the biggest threat that those situations pose. It's always a threat, and one which has a lot of emotional impact, but there are worse things that can happen due to unstable political situations, wars or uncontrolled immigration and islamification. Things like civil wars or increases in crime or open wars.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.

Agreed. It is tiny now, but Islamic terrorism is a cancer. If they do acquire WMDs, they will use them. And the effect of this terrorism is far greater than simply the direct death and injury. It allows demagogues and idiots a chance to posture, either sabre-rattling or virtue-signaling appeasement.

[AndrewV69]

If you have any room to spare before your systolic pressures cause a terminal event you can be horrified by the Globe and Mail, dredging up more articles for the front page by WOC.

Here's a real beaut: If you’re wearing a hijab, be wary of RCMP recruitment drive A hijab wearing woman decides that the RCMP allowing officers to wear a hijab is somehow evidence that they are worse than ever, and she still hasn't gotten over the legal challenge in the mid-1980's by a turban wearing sikh officer. She concludes by telling us that her 14 year old daughter "has decided" to wear a hijab and is now being advised by her mother to never consider a career with the RCMP. Then again, how effective would a hijab-wearing mountie be when forced to touch strange men in the course of breaking up bar fights?

They must realise that the comments afterwards indicate that they simply won't sell any newspapers with this kind of dreck. I assume they have given up on turning a profit from the print edition and are relying on their paywall site. (Clear their cookies whenever they tell you that you can't have any more articles, and read all you want - or can stand.)

Quote from the article:

As a Muslim woman, what concerns me as much as exclusion and discrimination, is this toxic environment in which women are trying to serve, protect and enrich their communities.

I believe the message is clear to women. Do not sign up for the RCMP. This is probably not a bad thing. Women tend to mess up every single workplace environment till it is completely hostile to men and dysfunctional at all levels.

Generally, kicking women out of the workforce will have a couple of benefit. The population birth rate would soar as women who are barefoot and preggers at home would also drive up the wages for men due to their absence.

When I become Dictator this will be implemented immediately. This will not apply to White Middle and Upper Class Women however. They can continue to do pretty much whatever they want to do, which is pretty much the same as they do now.

All other women get to either breed replacement workers and/or work as nannies, cooks housemaids for the White Middle and Upper Class Women or, if they really want they can become a Nurse (they can also become a Doctor if they marry out of the service class. White Middle and Upper Class Women have no such restriction remember? Not to mention said Middle and Upper Class Women would never soil their hands and become something as low class as a Waitress or a Nurse).

But no more of this madness of having Service and Working Class women as Police and Firefighters etc. etc.. We have to draw a line and make it explicit. Too many people are now completely deluded as to their purpose in life and why they were put upon this Earth.

[katamari Damassi]

TJ(Amazing Atheist)just broke a million subscribers. I'm looking forward to the Patheos bloggers rolling out their fainting couches.

[Tigzy]

I believe the message is clear to women. Do not sign up for the RCMP. This is probably not a bad thing. Women tend to mess up every single workplace environment till it is completely hostile to men and dysfunctional at all levels.

Generally, kicking women out of the workforce will have a couple of benefit. The population birth rate would soar as women who are barefoot and preggers at home would also drive up the wages for men due to their absence.

When I become Dictator this will be implemented immediately. This will not apply to White Middle and Upper Class Women however. They can continue to do pretty much whatever they want to do, which is pretty much the same as they do now.

All other women get to either breed replacement workers and/or work as nannies, cooks housemaids for the White Middle and Upper Class Women or, if they really want they can become a Nurse (they can also become a Doctor if they marry out of the service class. White Middle and Upper Class Women have no such restriction remember? Not to mention said Middle and Upper Class Women would never soil their hands and become something as low class as a Waitress or a Nurse).

But no more of this madness of having Service and Working Class women as Police and Firefighters etc. etc.. We have to draw a line and make it explicit. Too many people are now completely deluded as to their purpose in life and why they were put upon this Earth.

:lol: How engagingly batshit.

Dude, fuck this 'I'm not a muslim' shite. Stop being wishy-washy and get yourself down the local mosque pronto. The 'quantum state of being muslim yet not-muslim at the same time' act just makes you look like a retard.

[AndrewV69]

If you really want to raise your blood pressure, you should read the piece by Iris Vander Pluym that was the inspiration for Peezus' post. This blogger is one of the Hordelets that were given a spot on FTB in the absence of competent authors willing to write there. IVP has such a phobia for Islamophobia that she claims that ISIS and al-Qaeda have nothing to do with Islam. Let that sink in for a moment.

<choppity chop chop>

Pretty amusing. I also always get a laugh when a non-Muslim makes takfir on someone who claims they are a muslim. Guys, do not do that. :naughty:

[Brive1987]

I never realised NASA wrote a 400 page report explaining how and why Columbia's crew died when their shuttle came apart at 145k feet.

The tl/dr is: depressurisation with helmet visors up, getting smacked about in the tumble, being ejected into space and then hitting the ground.

So now you know.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf

They have a collection of n> level absurd acronyms including the CE (catastrophic event).

This is an excellent report, with very careful analysis of the various aerothermodynamic issues that could have caused the accident. Fluid mechanics at high speeds is hard, and the re-entry problem very complex. Modeling tools are still not able to resolve the flow and chemical kinetic features needed to either design or predict the physics of the system accurately. A good example of careful engineering work. Anyone who thinks that this is "easy" should try and reproduce even a simple figure, like fig. 2.1-54. I would probably assign this as a good term project for a graduate level computational physics class.

Oh it certainly appealed to my liking for detail. My only complaint was that each subsection seemed designed to stand alone - so a lot of the same information was presented again and again.

[Jan Steen]

If you measure the effect of a terrorist act only by the number of direct victims, then you can claim that it is a small (but I wouldn't say tiny) problem. But the indirect effect of islamist terror is that most major news outlets are now very reluctant indeed to be openly critical about Islam. They are not just afraid to (re)publish cartoons of Muhammad, which is bad enough, but will not even publish any kind of questioning, let alone mocking, of the Qur'an. It's almost as if the Qur'an has become a holy book to the western media too.

Terrorism is stifling debate, to the extent that many legitimate questions about Islam are hardly ever raised in the mainstream media. It doesn't help that the regressive left have twisted the questioning of even the worst aspects of the Religion of Peace into a crime called Islamophobia. This has turned the SJWs into de facto enforcers of the terrorists.

As for the use of WMDs, it may be that the difficulty of getting hold of these is preventing the likes of ISIS from employing them. Given their apocalyptic mindset, I don't think they would be too afraid of the consequences. On the contrary, I suspect that at least some of these maniacs would like nothing better than an all-out war with the West.

[Tribble]

+1

Lets say that somehow ISIS managed to get enough VX out of Syria's stockpile, and somehow managed to disperse it, what would the result be?
Let's say they managed to hit a sports stadium, killed 30k people, (This is absurdly unlikely) the response would be cataclysmic. The whole Western world would lose it's shit and anything would be justified as a response... the gloves would come off. The Chinese and Russian also have cause for concern and I'm not even sure they own gloves.

We would be in quite good shape, and all it would cost us is the deaths of 30k, keeping in mind that this is now effectively a world war with virtually the whole world on our side.

So pick a war in our history, take a look at the casualty figures of combatants and civilians. Thirty thousand is a pretty low number.

Terrorism is always a small problem, it is the response to it which can grow to epic proportions or have significant consequences. Here lies one of the problems with which is going on at the moment, terrorism is being conflated with the war in Syria/Iraq, various political situations in the Middle East, Africa, Pakistan and Turkey, Mass immigration in mainland Europe, and islamification in countries like the UK with existing muslim populations. Terrorism is being used to highlight all these issues, but terrorism isn't actually the threat that these situations pose.

It would be ineffective. VX gas has a shelf life of just over 5-years and Russia stopped producing chemical weapons in the early 1990s and has, since 1997, been (slowly) destroying its chemical weapons stockpiles. It would, however, make the grass grow. VX gas decomposes into, basically, fertilizer, acetic acid and a couple of other by-products.

Now, Sarin... Syria makes that on it's own and has used it. So they could get that. But the truth is, it's not that hard to make and terrorists could make it themselves and some have, like the terrorists in Japan. However, as we saw in the Tokyo subway attack, it's extremely difficult for people to manually deliver a significant, fatal concentration. So despite the five coordinated attacks, the terrorists only managed to kill 12 people despite releasing it during the heaviest commute time in the Tokyo subway system.

An AK-47 with a couple of hundred rounds could do a shit ton better. Especially as people panicked and ran for the exits, crushing each other to death. Just like the gay club. The Paris shootings. Etc. Bombs, nerve agents... Complex, not that good against crowds and definitely not as effective as concentrated, high-volume small-arms fire.

[Tribble]

+1

Lets say that somehow ISIS managed to get enough VX out of Syria's stockpile, and somehow managed to disperse it, what would the result be?
Let's say they managed to hit a sports stadium, killed 30k people, (This is absurdly unlikely) the response would be cataclysmic. The whole Western world would lose it's shit and anything would be justified as a response... the gloves would come off. The Chinese and Russian also have cause for concern and I'm not even sure they own gloves.

We would be in quite good shape, and all it would cost us is the deaths of 30k, keeping in mind that this is now effectively a world war with virtually the whole world on our side.

So pick a war in our history, take a look at the casualty figures of combatants and civilians. Thirty thousand is a pretty low number.

Terrorism is always a small problem, it is the response to it which can grow to epic proportions or have significant consequences. Here lies one of the problems with which is going on at the moment, terrorism is being conflated with the war in Syria/Iraq, various political situations in the Middle East, Africa, Pakistan and Turkey, Mass immigration in mainland Europe, and islamification in countries like the UK with existing muslim populations. Terrorism is being used to highlight all these issues, but terrorism isn't actually the threat that these situations pose.

It would be ineffective. VX gas has a shelf life of just over 5-years and Russia stopped producing chemical weapons in the early 1990s and has, since 1997, been (slowly) destroying its chemical weapons stockpiles. It would, however, make the grass grow. VX gas decomposes into, basically, fertilizer, acetic acid and a couple of other by-products.

Now, Sarin... Syria makes that on it's own and has used it. So they could get that. But the truth is, it's not that hard to make and terrorists could make it themselves and some have, like the terrorists in Japan. However, as we saw in the Tokyo subway attack, it's extremely difficult for people to manually deliver a significant, fatal concentration. So despite the five coordinated attacks, the terrorists only managed to kill 12 people despite releasing it during the heaviest commute time in the Tokyo subway system.

An AK-47 with a couple of hundred rounds could do a shit ton better. Especially as people panicked and ran for the exits, crushing each other to death. Just like the gay club. The Paris shootings. Etc. Bombs, nerve agents... Complex, not that good against crowds and definitely not as effective as concentrated, high-volume small-arms fire.

[Tribble]

Not my fault!!!

[Kirbmarc]

9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.

Agreed. It is tiny now, but Islamic terrorism is a cancer. If they do acquire WMDs, they will use them. And the effect of this terrorism is far greater than simply the direct death and injury. It allows demagogues and idiots a chance to posture, either sabre-rattling or virtue-signaling appeasement.

I don't think that terrorism is "tiny", but the issues with Islam aren't just terrorism, or (like many seem to think) just the Islamic State. There's a whole lot of issues with Salafism, integration, Middle East stability in general, etc.

Demagogues gotta posture: it's in the job definition. Terrorism, for them, is just an excuse.

Also I really don't think that terrorists are going to able to acquire WMDs, not when they can achieve what they want with just rifles. Here's a good Thunderfoot video about this issue:

[youtube][/youtube]

[AndrewV69]

I believe the message is clear to women. Do not sign up for the RCMP. This is probably not a bad thing. Women tend to mess up every single workplace environment till it is completely hostile to men and dysfunctional at all levels.

Generally, kicking women out of the workforce will have a couple of benefit. The population birth rate would soar as women who are barefoot and preggers at home would also drive up the wages for men due to their absence.

When I become Dictator this will be implemented immediately. This will not apply to White Middle and Upper Class Women however. They can continue to do pretty much whatever they want to do, which is pretty much the same as they do now.

All other women get to either breed replacement workers and/or work as nannies, cooks housemaids for the White Middle and Upper Class Women or, if they really want they can become a Nurse (they can also become a Doctor if they marry out of the service class. White Middle and Upper Class Women have no such restriction remember? Not to mention said Middle and Upper Class Women would never soil their hands and become something as low class as a Waitress or a Nurse).

But no more of this madness of having Service and Working Class women as Police and Firefighters etc. etc.. We have to draw a line and make it explicit. Too many people are now completely deluded as to their purpose in life and why they were put upon this Earth.

:lol: How engagingly batshit.

Dude, fuck this 'I'm not a muslim' shite. Stop being wishy-washy and get yourself down the local mosque pronto. The 'quantum state of being muslim yet not-muslim at the same time' act just makes you look like a retard.

A thousand blessing to you good sir for your kind words. You have warmed the very cockles of my heart. I am so especially verklempt right now I tell ya.

[Tribble]

TJ(Amazing Atheist)just broke a million subscribers. I'm looking forward to the Patheos bloggers rolling out their fainting couches.

I'm waiting for Myers to have a stroke. Also, Thunderf00t is up to 628K and is now around the 2,900ish most popular person no YouTube. That income sites aren't too sure how much he makes (really wide range of estimates), but he could be making as much from YouTube as Myers does working for UMM. Possibly even more as the top estimate is 100K/year with full monetization (which he doesn't do).

[free thoughtpolice]

If you really want to raise your blood pressure, you should read the piece by Iris Vander Pluym that was the inspiration for Peezus' post. This blogger is one of the Hordelets that were given a spot on FTB in the absence of competent authors willing to write there. IVP has such a phobia for Islamophobia that she claims that ISIS and al-Qaeda have nothing to do with Islam. Let that sink in for a moment.

<choppity chop chop>

Pretty amusing. I also always get a laugh when a non-Muslim makes takfir on someone who claims they are a muslim. Guys, do not do that. :naughty:

Abdul! I think you have rebuked the wrong kaffir. :drool:

[Kirbmarc]

If you measure the effect of a terrorist act only by the number of direct victims, then you can claim that it is a small (but I wouldn't say tiny) problem. But the indirect effect of islamist terror is that most major news outlets are now very reluctant indeed to be openly critical about Islam. They are not just afraid to (re)publish cartoons of Muhammad, which is bad enough, but will not even publish any kind of questioning, let alone mocking, of the Qur'an. It's almost as if the Qur'an has become a holy book to the western media too.

It's not just Islamist terror, it's the investments of the petro-countries. "Never upset the Saudis" has been a staple of US media for decades.

Terrorism is stifling debate, to the extent that many legitimate questions about Islam are hardly ever raised in the mainstream media. It doesn't help that the regressive left have twisted the questioning of even the worst aspects of the Religion of Peace into a crime called Islamophobia. This has turned the SJWs into de facto enforcers of the terrorists.

The SJWs and the Regressive Left here are the real target you need to hit, and I think that on the issue of Islam they're putting a metaphorical noose around their collective necks and people only need to kick the chair they're standing on. People are getting fed up with them, and will demand actions from their leaders against Muslim supremacists, no matter how much they SJWs bleat about "Islamophobia". The only question is whether this will happen through center-right coalitions which will implement reasonable ideas or by letting the extreme right come into power.

As for the use of WMDs, it may be that the difficulty of getting hold of these is preventing the likes of ISIS from employing them. Given their apocalyptic mindset, I don't think they would be too afraid of the consequences. On the contrary, I suspect that at least some of these maniacs would like nothing better than an all-out war with the West.

Oh yes, they would. The people who make deals with them (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.) wouldn't. The Islamic State is a useful rabid attack dog for these powers, but only if used in moderation. Neither Erdogan nor the Saud dynasty want Syria to be nuked. If the Islamic State looked about to acquire WMDs they would be wiped out quickly, since the people who find them useful no longer would.

[Kirbmarc]

It would be ineffective. VX gas has a shelf life of just over 5-years and Russia stopped producing chemical weapons in the early 1990s and has, since 1997, been (slowly) destroying its chemical weapons stockpiles. It would, however, make the grass grow. VX gas decomposes into, basically, fertilizer, acetic acid and a couple of other by-products.

Now, Sarin... Syria makes that on it's own and has used it. So they could get that. But the truth is, it's not that hard to make and terrorists could make it themselves and some have, like the terrorists in Japan. However, as we saw in the Tokyo subway attack, it's extremely difficult for people to manually deliver a significant, fatal concentration. So despite the five coordinated attacks, the terrorists only managed to kill 12 people despite releasing it during the heaviest commute time in the Tokyo subway system.

An AK-47 with a couple of hundred rounds could do a shit ton better. Especially as people panicked and ran for the exits, crushing each other to death. Just like the gay club. The Paris shootings. Etc. Bombs, nerve agents... Complex, not that good against crowds and definitely not as effective as concentrated, high-volume small-arms fire.

This. No need for chemical weapons or nukes. The AK-47 is the real weapon of mass destruction. Easy to find, easy to use, easy to smuggle. And relatively cheap.

[AndrewV69]

Late to the party, but some thoughts on burkinis:

- Regardless of other considerations: seriously, laws against the wearing of one certain specific type of clothing on beaches?

I am of two minds on the subject of burkinis myself. None of which are based on principles and logic. For example, seeing as I am now at the stage of my life where I look better with clothes on rather than off, I believe I am leaning more in one direction than the other.

[Michael J]

Just as an interesting aside, I've been reading some fascinating revisionist essays on an alternative origin for Islam by a historian, Emmet Scott. http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpag ... _id/160197

The rough idea would be that there was no conquest of the Middle East and Persia by Arabs, and Arabs were not "Muslims" at that time, but rather a fair number of Arabs were of a Christian heresy, Ebionite (apparently remnants of the heresy documentedly shifted to the Arabian pensinsula after being ejected from Judea by orthodox Christianity).

What actually happened was that a Persian king conquered a good chunk of the Middle East, taking Jerusalem and biffing the Byzantine empire a good one on the nose (this is well documented). A substantial part of his soldiery was from the Arabian peninsula, and he may have converted to this heretical form of Christianity as part of a marriage deal. Later, some of the Ebionite Arabs usurped the Persian empire at an opportune moment, then a fictitious narrative with an Arabian prophet and holy book based on an Ebionite text was created to give legitimacy to the Arabic takeover. The Ummayad dynasty is therefore first actual "Muslim" dynasty (the successor "caliphs" of the fictitious Mohammed who supposedly did the conquering of Persia and the Middle East, Abu Bakr, etc., being also fictitious). It's only then that we start seeing recognizably Muslim stuff in the archeological record, but it all has a strongly Persian flavour (e.g. the crescent and cross symbol is Persian, and predates Islam).

This also fits in with some linguistic evidence which seems to suggest that the Quran might have been based in part on a Syriac Christian text (hence the fact that some of it is just nonsense - poor translation) with the added stuff about a native Arabian prophet mixed in. The well-known war of Hadiths is an extension of this, with later rulers trying to legitimize various things.

Even deeper down a possible wormhole, and along the same lines, the part result of these Persian shenanigans may be that we've lost about 300 years from our calendar (we might actually be living in the late 1700s :) ).

Fun to think about.

I read the same thing a few years ago about some coins that were found with proto-Christian motifs but had quotes later used in the Koran.

[Michael J]

Just as an interesting aside, I've been reading some fascinating revisionist essays on an alternative origin for Islam by a historian, Emmet Scott. http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpag ... _id/160197

The rough idea would be that there was no conquest of the Middle East and Persia by Arabs, and Arabs were not "Muslims" at that time, but rather a fair number of Arabs were of a Christian heresy, Ebionite (apparently remnants of the heresy documentedly shifted to the Arabian pensinsula after being ejected from Judea by orthodox Christianity).

What actually happened was that a Persian king conquered a good chunk of the Middle East, taking Jerusalem and biffing the Byzantine empire a good one on the nose (this is well documented). A substantial part of his soldiery was from the Arabian peninsula, and he may have converted to this heretical form of Christianity as part of a marriage deal. Later, some of the Ebionite Arabs usurped the Persian empire at an opportune moment, then a fictitious narrative with an Arabian prophet and holy book based on an Ebionite text was created to give legitimacy to the Arabic takeover. The Ummayad dynasty is therefore first actual "Muslim" dynasty (the successor "caliphs" of the fictitious Mohammed who supposedly did the conquering of Persia and the Middle East, Abu Bakr, etc., being also fictitious). It's only then that we start seeing recognizably Muslim stuff in the archeological record, but it all has a strongly Persian flavour (e.g. the crescent and cross symbol is Persian, and predates Islam).

This also fits in with some linguistic evidence which seems to suggest that the Quran might have been based in part on a Syriac Christian text (hence the fact that some of it is just nonsense - poor translation) with the added stuff about a native Arabian prophet mixed in. The well-known war of Hadiths is an extension of this, with later rulers trying to legitimize various things.

Even deeper down a possible wormhole, and along the same lines, the part result of these Persian shenanigans may be that we've lost about 300 years from our calendar (we might actually be living in the late 1700s :) ).

Fun to think about.

I read the same thing a few years ago about some coins that were found with proto-Christian motifs but had quotes later used in the Koran.

[Jan Steen]

This. No need for chemical weapons or nukes. The AK-47 is the real weapon of mass destruction. Easy to find, easy to use, easy to smuggle. And relatively cheap.

Maybe so. But then the number of victims will always be relatively small. More important, the psychological effect of a chemical or nuclear attack would be much bigger, which is after all what they are after. We have already seen from that Japanese sect that a relatively small group without backing by a state can still produce chemical weapons. Yes, they failed in the delivery, but who is to say that another group couldn't do better?

Or maybe I have seen too many episodes of 24. Where is Jack Bauer when you need him?

[AndrewV69]

If you really want to raise your blood pressure, you should read the piece by Iris Vander Pluym that was the inspiration for Peezus' post. This blogger is one of the Hordelets that were given a spot on FTB in the absence of competent authors willing to write there. IVP has such a phobia for Islamophobia that she claims that ISIS and al-Qaeda have nothing to do with Islam. Let that sink in for a moment.

<choppity chop chop>

Pretty amusing. I also always get a laugh when a non-Muslim makes takfir on someone who claims they are a muslim. Guys, do not do that. :naughty:

Abdul! I think you have rebuked the wrong kaffir. :drool:

Excuse me? It is Abdulla not Abdul. One means Slave Of God. The other means Slave. Oh and BTW I was not rebuking Jan Steen if that is what you mean. :naughty:

[Steersman]

Apropos of nothing much in particular:

And:

Vérité
@vahrheit_tnb
FR-EN-DE-0/1 « Un peuple qui élit des corrompus, des renégats, des imposteurs, des voleurs et des traîtres n’est pas victime, il est complice ». George Orwell.

[Tigzy]

@Steers - there were some fine lulz to be had with that hashtag. Did you engage humour module and join in?

[MarcusAu]

One request - can we get the spell-checker to approve - islam, christian, jew, muslim etc in lower case?

NO GODS, NO MASTERS, no caps (if at all possible).


Also, I think there may be something to conflating muslim with a race.

When thinking of muslims, I tend to think of middle-easterners (not Indians or Indonesians). So, I'm going to try using middle-easterner more often - if only to stress that that is area that is currently the source of most of the conflict - and to be inclusive of Arabs, Persians, and even those that are just culturally muslim.
I do this in person when talking to muslims to - I ask which football team they would support if Algeria was playing Lebanon, or who makes the best food.


I can see a couple of problems with the large migrations and subsequent islamification of Europe.
-The the social security costs (For example, I've heard the cost of fixing immigrants teeth in Germany quoted as over a billion euro)
-With changing demographics, I'm not sure how much continued support there will be for enlightenment values - such as freedom of speech (cf Blasphemy laws).

[Steersman]

@Steers - there were some fine lulz to be had with that hashtag. Did you engage humour module and join in?

Indeed. Seen a few in passing which I've thought quite amusing but I think I need an upgrade of the creativity module to join in. :-)

[comhcinc]

One request - can we get the spell-checker to approve - islam, christian, jew, muslim etc in lower case?

NO GODS, NO MASTERS, no caps (if at all possible).

Done. You right click on the word and choose "add to dictionary".

See.

http://i.imgur.com/gLQS71T.jpg

[deLurch]

TJ(Amazing Atheist)just broke a million subscribers. I'm looking forward to the Patheos bloggers rolling out their fainting couches.

I am personally not really wild about TJ's style of videos. Not that I think he is doing or saying anything wrong. He does tend to say much that I agree with, so walking into my own personal echo chamber does nothing for me.

My best guess as to why he has reached the popularity that he does have, is similar to the breitbart situation. He is saying things most people don't. And the people sick of what is pushed out by conventional PC wisdom are drawn to him.

In any case, I am glad he exists and is doing what he is doing even if I don't watch but the rare odd video someone points out as worthwhile.

[Tigzy]

@Steers - there were some fine lulz to be had with that hashtag. Did you engage humour module and join in?

Indeed. Seen a few in passing which I've thought quite amusing but I think I need an upgrade of the creativity module to join in. :-)

I did loads. This one of mine got pretty popular:

Has to be said, the bleaters were a hoot. Many were truly dumb, though none quite as dumb as this one:

All in all, such jolly ribbing of the religion of peace meant a good time was had by all. Mostly.

[Brive1987]

I never realised NASA wrote a 400 page report explaining how and why Columbia's crew died when their shuttle came apart at 145k feet.

The tl/dr is: depressurisation with helmet visors up, getting smacked about in the tumble, being ejected into space and then hitting the ground.

So now you know.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/298870main_SP-2008-565.pdf

They have a collection of n> level absurd acronyms including the CE (catastrophic event).

They did the same thing for Challenger. Quite horrific to think that the crew was probably alive all the way down.

The (temporary) survival of the Challenger crew is a tragically interesting problem. The jury is still out

The facts, such as they are include:

Mike Smith was aware of an issue with his final RT being "Uh oh".
The crew compartment remained intact and was found with all the bodies inside.
The flight crew had manually switched on 3 of their 4 personal oxygen packs.
The oxygen packs for the 3 mid deck crew were not found.

However.

The crew compartment separated at 45k feet and continued up to 60k before descending - ie a min was spent above 40k.

Failure to turn on the fourth pack bodes ill for extended consciousness

The fact the packs were turned on at all suggests a depressurisation event.

The packs were not under pressure (being for sea level emergency egress through smoke) - so no oxygen would have been available at high altitude.

So who knows. I find it unlikely the CC exited and fell without any structural compromise but I guess it's possible.

I did read in one source that electrical switches under spring load were found in a "non nominal" configuration suggesting the pilot was trying to regain power. But this bit of info does not form part of the standard narrative.

Neither does Christa McAuliffe final exclamation "what does this button do?"

[dogen]

Shocking news from Germany.

I doubt anyone here could have predicted this :whistle:

So Aneris was full of shit!

[Steersman]

I'm thinking about maybe going to the beach this afternoon with a colander on my head and sit not too far from a dressed woman wearing the hijab. If the police wants to remove her, I shall intervene and explain that the colander is a symbol of my religion, so they'll have to remove me as well. Then, I'll explain to them how ridiculous they will look when the local newspaper title "police removes man from beach for wearing colander on his head".

:think:

With your luck you'll get little spots of sunburn all over your forehead.

And he might feel drained.

:) On both accounts.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

But the burqua is a tool of oppression against women. it needs to be declared as such, and banned if possible. We must neither accept nor tolerate Islamic mores that clash with our Western ones. Moslems who embrace the former should be ostracized, called-out, told in no uncertain terms that their 9th century bullshit won't fly.

Et tu, Brute?

Com'on. Pass new laws (if they are needed) to prevent people from ordering adult women to wear or not wear certain clothes, but don't waste your time banning specific pieces of clothing because of their history or associations. The latter is just silly, not to mention a violation of the Establishment Clause when the item in question gets its association from a religion.

France doesn't have the Establishment Clause. It does have a law against ostentatious religious displays in attire. France should fully exploit that law to make life very uncomfortable for those 7th century goat-fuckers, so they will leave for some goat-fucker friendly nation.

And I'm tired of the 'otherwise those po widdle moslem women won't get to enjoy the beach/swimming pool' argument. They had their clits chopped off, for Isa's sake -- swimming is the least of their worries.

[Steersman]

@Steers - there were some fine lulz to be had with that hashtag. Did you engage humour module and join in?

Indeed. Seen a few in passing which I've thought quite amusing but I think I need an upgrade of the creativity module to join in. :-)

I did loads. This one of mine got pretty popular:

[.tweet][/tweet]

Has to be said, the bleaters were a hoot. Many were truly dumb, though none quite as dumb as this one:

[.tweet][/tweet]

All in all, such jolly ribbing of the religion of peace meant a good time was had by all. Mostly.

:-) Andrew in particular might like "The Fasting And The Furious" ;-)

[comhcinc]

TJ(Amazing Atheist)just broke a million subscribers. I'm looking forward to the Patheos bloggers rolling out their fainting couches.

I am personally not really wild about TJ's style of videos. Not that I think he is doing or saying anything wrong. He does tend to say much that I agree with, so walking into my own personal echo chamber does nothing for me.

My best guess as to why he has reached the popularity that he does have, is similar to the breitbart situation. He is saying things most people don't. And the people sick of what is pushed out by conventional PC wisdom are drawn to him.

In any case, I am glad he exists and is doing what he is doing even if I don't watch but the rare odd video someone points out as worthwhile.

I don't think we are not his market. I imagine his market is white male teenagers. And yeah I agree I am glad he is doing what he is going.

Personally I find him and Armored Skeptic to be really cringey but to each their own.

[MarcusAu]

In the spirit of enlightenment I think that all governments should stay out of legislating was their citizens can wear.

However, for those looking to cover up may I suggest the following stylistic choices for consideration:

http://www.jeanulrickdesert.com/sites/d ... k=d9EnjhMc

[Matt Cavanaugh]

http://i.imgur.com/AbladJF.jpg

The Irrelevant Atheist.

[Gumby]

They did the same thing for Challenger. Quite horrific to think that the crew was probably alive all the way down.

The (temporary) survival of the Challenger crew is a tragically interesting problem. The jury is still out

The facts, such as they are include:

Mike Smith was aware of an issue with his final RT being "Uh oh".
The crew compartment remained intact and was found with all the bodies inside.
The flight crew had manually switched on 3 of their 4 personal oxygen packs.
The oxygen packs for the 3 mid deck crew were not found.

However.

The crew compartment separated at 45k feet and continued up to 60k before descending - ie a min was spent above 40k.

Failure to turn on the fourth pack bodes ill for extended consciousness

The fact the packs were turned on at all suggests a depressurisation event.

The packs were not under pressure (being for sea level emergency egress through smoke) - so no oxygen would have been available at high altitude.

So who knows. I find it unlikely the CC exited and fell without any structural compromise but I guess it's possible.

I did read in one source that electrical switches under spring load were found in a "non nominal" configuration suggesting the pilot was trying to regain power. But this bit of info does not form part of the standard narrative.

Neither does Christa McAuliffe final exclamation "what does this button do?"

:naughty:

:o

:snooty:



OK, have to admit it - :lol:

[deLurch]

Shocking news from Germany.

I doubt anyone here could have predicted this :whistle:

So Aneris was full of shit!

I didn't necessarily think Aneris was full of shit. But I did suspect that he might have been in a bit of a German media bubble. The kind of media bubble that we are all subject to, including in the US.

However at bare minimum Aneris was subject to the discussions we have here on the 'pit if he did not consume media from other countries.

The sad fact is, Fox News and many lower tier 'disreputable' news organizations do in fact report information that other main stream media does not. The problem with Fox News is that they have such a heavy bias, it is difficult to discern the solid reporting from the spin & hype reporting.

If you think about it, it has to be extremely time consuming to have to read multiple varied publications to even attempt to try and understand what the truth story is.

[MarcusAu]

re Fox: I don't watch Hannity or O'Rielly - but I do find the Red Eye and (to a lesser extent) Greg Guttfield shows to be entertaining - in small doses at least.

Clips and even full shows are available on youtube - just seach 'Red Eye fox'

I expect that the USAians of a more liberal stripe here may take a somewhat dim view of this point of view though.

[Brive1987]

Shocking news from Germany.

I doubt anyone here could have predicted this :whistle:

So Aneris was full of shit!

I didn't necessarily think Aneris was full of shit. But I did suspect that he might have been in a bit of a German media bubble. The kind of media bubble that we are all subject to, including in the US.

However at bare minimum Aneris was subject to the discussions we have here on the 'pit if he did not consume media from other countries.

The sad fact is, Fox News and many lower tier 'disreputable' news organizations do in fact report information that other main stream media does not. The problem with Fox News is that they have such a heavy bias, it is difficult to discern the solid reporting from the spin & hype reporting.

If you think about it, it has to be extremely time consuming to have to read multiple varied publications to even attempt to try and understand what the truth story is.

That's all very gender specific.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

interpretations of the Quran have also played a role.

Pure literalism is a myth, a fig leaf that hides the works of many different interpreters. It's a myth made especially popular by the Muslim revivalism of these last twenty-thirty years, and it's part of the idea of Muslim "purity" and "superiority" contrasted with the "degeneracy" of Christianity.

To conclude that the koran and hadith do not extol the murder of infidel men, the rape of infidel women, child rape, the murder of homosexuals,fornicators and apostates, subjection and brutalization and mutilation of women, etc., one must not merely interpret certain passages in those books, one must completely ignore vast swaths of those books that expressly state just all that.

[Steersman]

Shocking news from Germany.

[.tweet][/tweet]

I doubt anyone here could have predicted this :whistle:

So Aneris was full of shit!

I rather doubt that, even then, although she definitely seems rather sensitive to accusations of bias in German media. Without much justification as I tried to argue in linking to and quoting a relevant article over at Quillette:

Tutors and Examiners of the Mind: German media and the migrant crisis
written by Phillip Mark McGough
...

The problems here were abbreviated recently and efficiently in remarks made by Wolfgang Herles, a grandee of German broadcasting and former head of the Bonn division of ZDF (Zweites Deutsches Fernsehen, effectively the German state broadcaster). In a story which itself, ironically, went little-reported in the wider European media, Dr Herles commented that publicly-funded broadcasters in Germany, including ZDF, routinely took orders from the Federal government in line with an ideologized vision of multicultural harmony and a pan-European, pro-immigration agenda. He said:

We have the problem that we are too close to the government. The topics we cover are determined by the government. But many of the topics the government wants to stop us from reporting are more important than the topics they want us to cover. We must, we are told, report in such a way that serves Europe and the common good. Today we are not allowed to say anything negative about the refugees. This is government-led journalism, and this leads to a situation in which the public loses their trust in us. This is scandalous.

Consider those remarks and let them percolate a while. These aren’t the warnings of a dissident Russian journalist bravely running the risk of death by radioactivity while speaking out from London exile (in which case we’d shrug our shoulders and ask: “What does he expect? It’s the Kremlin”) — these are the warnings of the former chief of the state broadcaster in Europe’s largest and (theoretically) most progressive democracy.

But a related article in the Australian press detailing the same sort of problem, a rather studious if misguided if not suicidal effort to ignore the writing on the wall:

Bad news for democracy when frank discussion is shut down

CHRIS KENNY
Associate Editor (National Affairs)Sydney
@chriskkenny

The great divide in Australia is not the mountain range stretching along our eastern seaboard but the boundary between those prepared to say what they think and those who deign to keep debate within confined parameters.

The country is divided between the political/media class who set and abide by the rules of political correctness, and the mainstream and mavericks who dare to talk outside this artificial range of acceptability.

Climate change, Islamic extremism and immigration are the issues most affected, although discussions on gay marriage, gender and indigenous affairs are similarly constrained. Ask Bill Leak.

Incredibly, in this information age, it is not only certain opinions that are frowned on but unpalatable facts as well. ....

[Old_ones]

http://i.imgur.com/AbladJF.jpg

The Irrelevant Atheist.

It can hardly be counted a classic, but the title is one of it's worst features. I can't believe he called it "the happy atheist" - first of all why would he let the publisher name it after him, and second why would he use a purile adjective like "happy" that doesn't even describe him. He couldn't have come up with a dumber title if he called it "Mr. Grumpy Pants". If I were him, I would have pushed for "pharyngula's greatest hits": that at least tells you what you are getting.

[MarcusAu]

[

It can hardly be counted a classic, but the title is one of it's worst features.
...

Except for everything else.

[comhcinc]

I swear, PZ knows when people are down and courageously steps up and sticks his foot in his mouth in epic fashion.

It would take me a month to get over the embarrassment of that tweet.

[Ape+lust]

TJ(Amazing Atheist)just broke a million subscribers. I'm looking forward to the Patheos bloggers rolling out their fainting couches.

I never saw much entertaining or useful from the Amazing Atheist, so I ignored him.

But one day I watched Dick Coughlan having a tears-n-snot meltdown because he was angry with TJ.

And I thought: Oh. THAT'S what he's good for. Pretty damned useful.

Now that he's giving Regressives the shits, I'm even more appreciative. I still don't watch him, but I like him.

[Brive1987]

:naughty:

:o

:snooty:



OK, have to admit it - :lol:

Let me atone with an injection of nerd.

Air (like we breathe at sea level) is 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen, and we're at 15psi here. So in engineering/medical terms, the partial pressure of oxygen, "PPO2", is 3psi (20% of 15psi). If you were in a room with 3psi total but it was all oxygen, the partial pressure would still be 3psi of O2.
You need around 2psi PPO2 to stay awake. So that's 10psi total of normal air (20% of 10psi= 2psi), but by the time you get to high airliner height, you need 100% of pure oxygen just to get that 2psi, because it's only 2psi around you (100% of 2psi).

The pre-Challenger crews didn't have pressure suits, so if the cabin depressurized (there are arguments both ways whether it did) they would have been immediately exposed to the ambient pressure at 50,000ft, which was only 1.7psi. So even if they had been breathing pure oxygen, it could have only bought a handful of seconds before unconsciousness (and they're still traveling upwards). Turning on the escape air packs would have made sure they had clean air, but would have done nothing to add to their time of consciousness.

That changed after Challenger - all crew members wore the orange suits with pure oxygen supplies. Two major changes - first the capability of keeping the crew at a higher pressure than the environment (you only need 2psi, but that's about as much as you can put in a spacesuit before you can't move/walk/reach) and the ability to keep them in a pure oxygen environment. Not only did that buy time to address a problem, but it gave bailout opportunities.

Interestingly, the shuttle system most vulnerable to loss of cabin pressure (after the orange suit era) wasn't the crew, it was the computers. The shuttle electronics were almost all air-cooled, and a loss of cabin pressure would make them overheat and fail in less than an hour.

[Brive1987]

Btw that was a quote - not a sudden explosion of knowledge on my part.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Let me atone with an injection of nerd.

Air (like we breathe at sea level) is 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen,

You need to nerd better. :geek: That is an approximation, which should anyway be 21/78.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Let me atone with an injection of nerd.

Air (like we breathe at sea level) is 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen,

You need to nerd better. :geek: That is an approximation, which should anyway be 21/78.

Ninja'd by the ninjee. Is that a first?

[Brive1987]

I don't do maths.

[MarcusAu]

Nice to to Korbo dropping in.

Com - how is work going?

Brive - I take it that you don't have an essay to work on, because, it would be pretty difficult to get from WWI to 1986 (unless you are talking the Biggles movie into account).

[Matt Cavanaugh]

When Shrimpy Alex McGabriel writes his first book, I bet the first sentence will be "It was a dark and stormy night."

Second sentence: "My father, though he did not know it at the time, and did not care, had just impregnated my mother with me."
Third sentence: "He left the four quid on the dresser top and left, never to be seen again."
Fourth sentence: The caustic douche, hastily splashed with one hand between the cellulite- and varicose veins of her thighs, was the first of of my mother's many attempts to murder me.

[CommanderTuvok]

9/11, London 7/7/2005, Madrid 2004, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Nice, etc., etc.

No, this is not a tiny problem. And it could become much worse if the islamist terrorists get their hands on poison gas or nuclear weapons. Religious maniacs like that are capable of anything.

Correct. As someone stated, you need to look at intent. Intent matters.

Further, if you look at the number of deaths of people killed in the UK from racist attacks, the number is extremely small on an annual basis. Yet, nobody says we should not take racist violence seriously......

[comhcinc]

Com - how is work going?

I am getting over some type of summer death flu. Today is the first day I have been out of bed in a couple of days. I have just been reading the pit not feeling like typing the last couple of day.

I feel for Brive. I would point out that our favorite German is a woman.

I want chicken wings.

[Michael J]

TJ(Amazing Atheist)just broke a million subscribers. I'm looking forward to the Patheos bloggers rolling out their fainting couches.

I'm waiting for Myers to have a stroke. Also, Thunderf00t is up to 628K and is now around the 2,900ish most popular person no YouTube. That income sites aren't too sure how much he makes (really wide range of estimates), but he could be making as much from YouTube as Myers does working for UMM. Possibly even more as the top estimate is 100K/year with full monetization (which he doesn't do).

From what I have heard returns on YouTube are pretty low so he wouldn't be making that much, most of the top earners make more of a living from merchandise and appearances than YouTube. Still it would be a nice addition to his normal income