Steersman wrote:
So what that the most recent Muslim depredations have been in Europe? Though I might remind you of Orlando. And 9/11. And we should be precluded from learning from the mistakes of our allies? You think what's happening in Calais, and Nice and Cologne won't or simply can't happen here? Particularly if the percentage of Muslims in the population in the US & Canada increase to that found in Europe. I note that
Germany has about 2% Muslims while the
US has about 1%, and
France has some 5% to 10% Muslims. Never hear of the adage about an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure?
We have this little thing called an "ocean" that makes it much harder for Muslims to immigrate here
en masse from places like Iraq and Syria. That lets us vet immigrants and refugees from that area carefully, and we do vet them carefully. We don't need your "ounce" of fascism or Donald Trump and his pants-shitting-terror-screeds.
9/11 and the Orlando incident were two incidents in the last 15 years. Both of the organizations who were tied to those people were heavily targeted with US ordinance. That's a better form of prevention than the magical thinking of voting for a blubbering man-child and willing him to make the Muslims go away.
steersman wrote:Old_ones wrote:Even if we were facing an immigration crisis, Trump's ideas are juvenile and unworkable. We can't just say "Muslims fuck off" and restrict all traffic of them. That would be unconstitutional, and it would be a terrible idea for diplomatic reasons. Trump wouldn't be able to implement his ideas even if he were elected, but thankfully it looks like he'll never have the chance to try.
Horse feathers. Never hear of the
population transfer between Greece and Turkey in 1923 that saw some 500,000 Muslims moved from the former to the latter? Know that the principal author of that wound up getting the Nobel Peace prize for his efforts? Know that the US, apparently,
deported some 2 to 3 million Mexicans between 1930 & 1954? Hardly what anyone with any knowledge of geopolitics would call "juvenile and unworkable" ideas; they might be unconstitutional, although I think that is decidedly moot. As I've quoted elsewhere (Islam and Islamism thread probably at least), the right to immigrate is not an absolute - countries
do have a right to control their borders - and Islam arguably qualifies as a "totalitarian" political ideology which, by the US Immigration and Nationality Act (section 313), precludes naturalization of those subscribing thereto.
Back in 1930 it was legal to run a lunch counter for white patrons only, and women had been allowed to vote for about 10 years. Your examples are from ancient history and neither the law or the societies you are talking about work that way anymore. This paragraph reminds me of the defense that Herman Goering offered at Nuremberg that the US had intentionally genocided the Native Americans, and that people who were aghast at the Holocaust were hypocrites who only cared because Germany did it.
While we are talking absolutes, a precedent is not an absolute defense of a policy. Just ask... Herman Goering.
Steersman wrote:
You think that Churchill and Ibn Warraq, and many others, were given to "attacks of the vapours" when it came to Islam?
You think I give a fuck about your arguments from authority?
Warraq, above, seems to be saying that criticism of Islam is important. That's fine. But you frequently cite him like you did above as a support for your desire to ban Islam, and I doubt he'd even agree with you. If he so much as joked about that off the cuff, you would strip his joke out of context and try to pass it off as a serious quote, because you are intellectually dishonest. You never read the things you cite, so why should I take book recommendations from you, or trust your representations of other people's work?
Finally... Winston Churchill?! :roll:
Yes, if in doubt, mine brainyquote.com. Brilliant Steersman... but I have a checkmate.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" -Albert Einstein
Clearly I win, because you know, Einstein. And clearly religion is a good thing because that quote says so.
:lol:
