The Refuge of the Toads

Old subthreads
Za-zen
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Posts: 2683
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:39 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64021

Post by Za-zen »

Service Dog wrote:Im not following Pizzagate, except for the shadows it casts on the slymepit wall.

But I've heard that artist Marina Abramovic is the link between ritual cum-drinking parties & the Democratic Party.

So, I'll note this : Abramovic is a mentor to Emma 'Mattress Girl' Sulkowicz... who was Democrat politician Kate Gillenbrand's guest to Obama's State of the Union.

And I attended a dinner inside a gold-domed defunct bank (!!!) where Abramovic was an honored guest & as-was mattress girl's thesis advisor-- the head of Columbia U.'s art dept. The waiters were a retinue of twink boymen, literally bare-assed, literally a color guard waving cryptic numbered red&white flags, and literally serving stalks of brussels sprouts protruding from their crotch-mounted flag holsters-- like erections-- from which the guests were given snippers to cut-off the brussels-balls & place them in literal strawberry-picking baskets. There was also a ritual involving dozens of 'choked' rubber chickens lynched from a scaffold with paprika shakers stuck up their asses... which the guests beat with sticks to rain the red dust onto a carefully-arranged grid of deviled eggs. There was a food-fight-like smashing of soup bowls into a yucky altar/pit. And the guests ended the night by smashing their dining tables with hammers, to reveal giftbag party favors occluded inside. The event was a 'fund-raiser' which was a decadent expendature & flaunting of wastefulness, by the liberal-elite 'haves'. I mentioned the event at the time... in a post to the pit: viewtopic.php?p=236903#p236903

Sorry that last paragraph sounds so looney. I assure you it's a factual description. The event was looney.
Dog you have a flair for descriptive writing. It is a talent, it's not the first piece i have read of yours that confirms that to me.

The whole political circus is one big trough, it's why you have to laugh at MPs/congressmen demanding cuts to citizens benefits whilst expanding their own. Most people don't grasp the irony, nor recognise the reality.

I come from a shitty hole known as N.ireland, i was offered a seat for Sinn fein many moons ago, even though i wasn't a party member. It was about as junior a seat you could get, being a councilman, but paid a retainer of £10K a year, plus expenses (and it's the expenses where the real goodies are) Not sure what the requirement of the position was other than turn up to the odd meeting, talk about bin collection (the height of council power at the time) and go on junkets to promote tourism to the area.

It was a cert seat too, no campaigning required, people wouldn't even look at the name on the ballot, they'd tick where their party colour was. Since then the reward for these seats has gotten a shitload better, and they've added the whole stormont (the assembly which is a glorified city council) trough for all the party bigwigs. The shit that is on offer to the pigs up there is unreal.

I turned it down, not least because i wasn't a sinn feiner. I could have ruled the world.

[youtube][/youtube]

pro-boxing-fan
Pit Art Master
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64022

Post by pro-boxing-fan »

I nominate this for Pit Tweet of the day. We have such a thing right?

feathers
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Posts: 6113
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:12 am

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64023

Post by feathers »

deLurch wrote:I didn't have a clue who he was.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/andrew-sachs ... 56280.html
You know nothing.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64024

Post by MarcusAu »

pro-boxing-fan wrote:I nominate this for Pit Tweet of the day. We have such a thing right?
I had heard that they were once supplying to the US Army - and the soldiers used to refer to it as:

'Kay One Double-You One' Boot Polish - the one with the short-assed duck on the cover.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64025

Post by MarcusAu »

Also known as a 'Wallaby-Bird'

Really?
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64026

Post by Really? »

Brive1987 wrote:Carrier legal alert.

PZ has a post up.

http://archive.is/LAC6i
Could you please mirror the PDF on another site somewhere, both to deprive PZ of hits and to preserve it for the record?

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64027

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Not everybody is drinking the BLM KoolAid.
http://m.seattlepi.com/local/crime/arti ... o-11887801

AndrewV69
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64028

Post by AndrewV69 »

Clarence wrote: Please stop with the bullshit about Saville. Not only were there two actual police investigations (which both cleared him) but Saville himself personally faced off against those allegations more than once. The Sun Newspaper allegedly didn't publish allegations against Savile for FEAR HE WOULD SUE. You know, use the actual court system to clear his name.

So where is your actual evidence the guy did anything to kids in hospitals. Or raped anyone? All you have are a bunch of people (most of whom are anonymous) making allegations from 30 to 50 years ago that the guy can't refute because he's dead. And the devil, apparently. Have to add that.
I made a couple of feeble attempts to point out to people that the Jimmy Saville nonsense was bullshyte myself. I believe I even linked to Anna Racoon a couple of times.

Welp,

Anna is dying and her website is going to go bye bye so her exhausting documentation (the links are going to 404 on the archive sites) is going with her too.
"On January 30 2017, the blog is primed to self combust. This platform is not like ‘Blogger’ or similar platforms, that float around in the internet long after they have been abandoned. I pay to have it hosted in Utah. Don’t pay – it doesn’t exist!"
*shrug*

People going to believe what they are going to believe. No matter what evidence you throw in their way. Ferguson, Martin/Zimmerman (brung a bag of skittles to a gunfight), etc. etc. and and let us ignore legit cases like Eric Garner (cause we crack down on tobbacco taxes evasion) and focus on bogus shyte like the justifiable shooting of strong-arm robbing, jaywalking in the middle of the street Michael Brown.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64029

Post by VickyCaramel »

Clarence wrote: Please stop with the bullshit about Saville. Not only were there two actual police investigations (which both cleared him) but Saville himself personally faced off against those allegations more than once. The Sun Newspaper allegedly didn't publish allegations against Savile for FEAR HE WOULD SUE. You know, use the actual court system to clear his name.

So where is your actual evidence the guy did anything to kids in hospitals. Or raped anyone? All you have are a bunch of people (most of whom are anonymous) making allegations from 30 to 50 years ago that the guy can't refute because he's dead. And the devil, apparently. Have to add that.
Thats a completely mischaracterised the situation.

There have been investigations by about 30 Police forces and health authorities, public enquiries, inquests, reviews and government reports, which have concluded, among other things, that the police and CPS had major failings in not properly investigating and prosecuting him.

I do not reach my conclusions based on what I read in the tabloids, but on the official report and the BBC's review:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giving_Vi ... f_findings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Janet_Smith_Review

FYI, "insufficient evidence to proceed" is not the same as being cleared, especially as the police were negligent in collecting evidence.

So where is my actual evidence? That is a stupid question as Saville is dead, the case will never go to trial and the evidence has not been made public. This is why the Home Secretary commissioned a report. The CPS has reviewed the evidence and has decided they had enough to go to trial in the 1970s, again in the 2000s, and that is BEFORE operation Yewtree.

If there has been another enquiry in British history on this scale, i can't think of it. There were investigations by the BBC, NSPCC, over a dozen health authorities and as far as I can tell, 28 police forces (with one investigation still ongoing) and they all concluded he was a fucking nonce. Short of digging him up and catching him red handed, I don't know what you expect?

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64030

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

I haven't really followed pizzagate, but what I did see looked pretty flimsy. Is there any actual evidence, or just a lot of politically motivated speculation?

Clarence
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64031

Post by Clarence »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Clarence wrote: Please stop with the bullshit about Saville. Not only were there two actual police investigations (which both cleared him) but Saville himself personally faced off against those allegations more than once. The Sun Newspaper allegedly didn't publish allegations against Savile for FEAR HE WOULD SUE. You know, use the actual court system to clear his name.

So where is your actual evidence the guy did anything to kids in hospitals. Or raped anyone? All you have are a bunch of people (most of whom are anonymous) making allegations from 30 to 50 years ago that the guy can't refute because he's dead. And the devil, apparently. Have to add that.
Thats a completely mischaracterised the situation.

There have been investigations by about 30 Police forces and health authorities, public enquiries, inquests, reviews and government reports, which have concluded, among other things, that the police and CPS had major failings in not properly investigating and prosecuting him.

I do not reach my conclusions based on what I read in the tabloids, but on the official report and the BBC's review:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giving_Vi ... f_findings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dame_Janet_Smith_Review

FYI, "insufficient evidence to proceed" is not the same as being cleared, especially as the police were negligent in collecting evidence.

So where is my actual evidence? That is a stupid question as Saville is dead, the case will never go to trial and the evidence has not been made public. This is why the Home Secretary commissioned a report. The CPS has reviewed the evidence and has decided they had enough to go to trial in the 1970s, again in the 2000s, and that is BEFORE operation Yewtree.

If there has been another enquiry in British history on this scale, i can't think of it. There were investigations by the BBC, NSPCC, over a dozen health authorities and as far as I can tell, 28 police forces (with one investigation still ongoing) and they all concluded he was a fucking nonce. Short of digging him up and catching him red handed, I don't know what you expect?
The evidence has not been made public, yet you believe it anyway?
And you call yourself a skeptic?

I'll tell you what I expect:
A. I expect that anyone found to have been 'negligent' in collecting evidence to be prosecuted and sent to jail.
Of course you will remember that testimony is considered 'evidence'. And it is the only type of evidence there has been in this case.
B. Considering the importance of this alleged 'dereliction of duty' when it came to Saville, I expect ALL EVIDENCE to be OPEN
C. Considering that many of the alleged victims have either been paid by the State or by settlement from Saville's estate (which was mostly to go to charity, I suspect it has mostly gone to liars instead) I expect the names of the people making these accusations to be OPEN and PUBLIC. It's the only way to cross- check stories. Anna Racoon (whose real name is known, but escapes me at the moment) claims some of the things alleged to have happened at Duncroft could not have happened as alleged as she was there at the time.
That's at the minimum.

Not to mention some of the 'reports' contradict other reports on certain details, and the fact that so much of this 'investigation' seems to be done under political pressure and by groups and people who have conflicts of interest or hew to radical feminist orthodoxy and you bet your ass I'm not convinced.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64032

Post by MarcusAu »

I'm sure this will be of interest to some here.

96 - Not Out!

[youtube][/youtube]

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64033

Post by VickyCaramel »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:I haven't really followed pizzagate, but what I did see looked pretty flimsy. Is there any actual evidence, or just a lot of politically motivated speculation?
It can all be considered evidence, but it's just circumstantial.

A bunch of creepy people sending message in code, swapping creepy jokes, collecting creepy paintings. I think we can firmly establish as fact that they are as creepy as fuck, and I think there is enough evidence in the coded messages to warrant a police making some enquiries... there would be in the UK anyway. I fact I would expect the British police to make enquiries into the McCann connection if they haven't already.

Dave
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64034

Post by Dave »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Tribble wrote:
Service Dog wrote:Im not following Pizzagate, except for the shadows it casts on the slymepit wall.

But I've heard that artist Marina Abramovic is the link between ritual cum-drinking parties & the Democratic Party.

So, I'll note this : Abramovic is a mentor to Emma 'Mattress Girl' Sulkowicz... who was Democrat politician Kate Gillenbrand's guest to Obama's State of the Union.

And I attended a dinner inside a gold-domed defunct bank (!!!) where Abramovic was an honored guest & as-was mattress girl's thesis advisor-- the head of Columbia U.'s art dept. The waiters were a retinue of twink boymen, literally bare-assed, literally a color guard waving cryptic numbered red&white flags, and literally serving stalks of brussels sprouts protruding from their crotch-mounted flag holsters-- like erections-- from which the guests were given snippers to cut-off the brussels-balls & place them in literal strawberry-picking baskets. There was also a ritual involving dozens of 'choked' rubber chickens lynched from a scaffold with paprika shakers stuck up their asses... which the guests beat with sticks to rain the red dust onto a carefully-arranged grid of deviled eggs. There was a food-fight-like smashing of soup bowls into a yucky altar/pit. And the guests ended the night by smashing their dining tables with hammers, to reveal giftbag party favors occluded inside. The event was a 'fund-raiser' which was a decadent expendature & flaunting of wastefulness, by the liberal-elite 'haves'. I mentioned the event at the time... in a post to the pit: viewtopic.php?p=236903#p236903

Sorry that last paragraph sounds so looney. I assure you it's a factual description. The event was looney.
Performance Art. It's as stupid today as it was back in the 60's when got life. Or new life. Depending on how you cut it.

But anyone who believes the pedophile cult aspects of pizzagate, and I'm not going to mince words, is too stupid for words. It's just another delusional, moral-sex-panic. Just like the horde of phony satanic ritual-sex-abuse scandals of the 1980s that made the lives of so many innocent people living hells.

For example, not only did you have the McMartin Daycare case (completely false) but over 100 pre-schools were caught up in the hysteria. Thousands across the US. People's lives, businesses and careers were ruined over something that didn't exist. Some even went to jail because the juries were so stupid that they couldn't believe prosecutors would lie and make up facts. Or that 'expert witnesses' would lead children on to make horrible, but false, accusations and punish those who didn't comply.

And it's not even new. These moral panics have been with us for thousands of years. Ritual cannibalism. Witchcraft. Child murder cults. Incest cults. Sex cults. On and on and on and on and on.

Learn some fucking history you gullible fucks.

Also, the BBC, recently, did a decent write-up of it. How the bullshit spread. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-38156985 How it igores facts. And how it is, basically, a 4Chan troll that has gone stupidly viral.
Saying, "It's just mass hysteria" is not skepticism. And linking us to an article where the BBC is declaring the story fake based on the word of the accused is not exactly convincing.

I really hope this story comes to nothing, but for every case of mass hysteria you can point to, I can point to three real child sex rings in the media, entertainment, sport or politics where powerful people were doing the most outrageous things, practically in the open because they were powerful and assumed they would get away with it.
Ill say two things about Pizzagate: (A) I have been to Comet Ping Pong. I have even came in through the back door. :lol: I have played ping pong there. The bartender is a decent guy, they have a good selection of beer with some good locals, and the pizza is not bad, even for a NY pizza snob. I dont have ServiceDog's flare for dramatic language, which is fortunate because it would be lost in describing Comet Ping Pong, its a rather unremarkable place. As far as I can tell, it has no basement. Im sure thats what they want me to think. (B) I have looked at some of the posts about pizzagate and they all seem to be based on a bunch of connections so tenuous that even Glenn Beck's blackboard would be ashamed of them. While simply dismissing anything as "just mass hysteria" isnt skepticism, looking at the claims, recognizing them as having no basis in fact, and therefore concluding that it is just mass hysteria, is.

Clarence
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64035

Post by Clarence »

AndrewV69 wrote:
Clarence wrote: Please stop with the bullshit about Saville. Not only were there two actual police investigations (which both cleared him) but Saville himself personally faced off against those allegations more than once. The Sun Newspaper allegedly didn't publish allegations against Savile for FEAR HE WOULD SUE. You know, use the actual court system to clear his name.

So where is your actual evidence the guy did anything to kids in hospitals. Or raped anyone? All you have are a bunch of people (most of whom are anonymous) making allegations from 30 to 50 years ago that the guy can't refute because he's dead. And the devil, apparently. Have to add that.
I made a couple of feeble attempts to point out to people that the Jimmy Saville nonsense was bullshyte myself. I believe I even linked to Anna Racoon a couple of times.

Welp,

Anna is dying and her website is going to go bye bye so her exhausting documentation (the links are going to 404 on the archive sites) is going with her too.
"On January 30 2017, the blog is primed to self combust. This platform is not like ‘Blogger’ or similar platforms, that float around in the internet long after they have been abandoned. I pay to have it hosted in Utah. Don’t pay – it doesn’t exist!"
*shrug*

People going to believe what they are going to believe. No matter what evidence you throw in their way. Ferguson, Martin/Zimmerman (brung a bag of skittles to a gunfight), etc. etc. and and let us ignore legit cases like Eric Garner (cause we crack down on tobbacco taxes evasion) and focus on bogus shyte like the justifiable shooting of strong-arm robbing, jaywalking in the middle of the street Michael Brown.
Yeah, I mostly agree.And I've noticed your links to Anna before. Even commented a few times. But most have their minds made up, at least on Saville. What if they are wrong? Well, if it was just Saville's memory and family (who get the blowback from his now devlish reputation)...well, he's dead. So it's sad, but not that important. No, what is important is the not just the sexual abuse hysteria in general but the shit-ass, shoddy, politicized and faux 'investigations' this is normalizing. I don't particularly care if Vicky or the rest of them believe it or not, but there is a reason all this stuff came out after his death and it isn't a good reason. It's because in the current climate in Great Britain , the one man who would question these stories, who would demand a name be attached to an accusation is dead. And now men who are LIVING have to worry because of the spector these liars have raised from his remains.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64036

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Clarence wrote:What if they are wrong?
Wow, what an incredibly insightful question! I'll bet no-one here has thought of this, which is why many of us are still atheists, inter alia. But now that you have raised this new and important issue, any of us with any sense will immediately adopt at least one religion, as the alternative is to risk the eternal fires of hell.

My soul thanks you.

Guest_bf4a5b12

Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64037

Post by Guest_bf4a5b12 »

In a week of strange coincidences, today I heard what has to be the best (or possibly worst) Jimmy Saville joke ever.

CaughtUpLockedOut

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64038

Post by VickyCaramel »

Clarence wrote: The evidence has not been made public, yet you believe it anyway?
And you call yourself a skeptic?
Yes, because it has been subject to a large scale investigation and enquiry. The people who did this did it on our behalf so that this evidence doesn't need to be made public, so that it doesn't end as wank fodder for kiddie fiddlers on the internet.

Are the people who conducted the enquiries sceptics? Yes, professionals.
Do they know what they are doing? Yes.
Do I trust them? Yes.
Do I have any reason not to? Not really.
Clarence wrote: I'll tell you what I expect:
A. I expect that anyone found to have been 'negligent' in collecting evidence to be prosecuted and sent to jail.
Of course you will remember that testimony is considered 'evidence'. And it is the only type of evidence there has been in this case.
B. Considering the importance of this alleged 'dereliction of duty' when it came to Saville, I expect ALL EVIDENCE to be OPEN
Regardless of what you expect, that is not how we do things here.
Clarence wrote: C. Considering that many of the alleged victims have either been paid by the State or by settlement from Saville's estate (which was mostly to go to charity, I suspect it has mostly gone to liars instead) I expect the names of the people making these accusations to be OPEN and PUBLIC. It's the only way to cross- check stories. Anna Racoon (whose real name is known, but escapes me at the moment) claims some of the things alleged to have happened at Duncroft could not have happened as alleged as she was there at the time.
That's at the minimum.

Not to mention some of the 'reports' contradict other reports on certain details, and the fact that so much of this 'investigation' seems to be done under political pressure and by groups and people who have conflicts of interest or hew to radical feminist orthodoxy and you bet your ass I'm not convinced.
What Anna Racoon read in the tabloid press, (Who had a field day over this, no doubt about that) and what was in the actual reports could be very different. Probably is.

I have no doubt that every loon, fantasist, attention seeker and gold digger in the country came out of the woodwork over this. But I have no idea why you think that they could fool CID but not fool you? AFTER weeding out all the crazies, the CPS still have over 200 separate credible incidents with over 400 witnesses.

...So even if it is possible that British detectives are so incompetent that 99% of the claims against him are false, then he still raped or molested two kids. Which is two kids too many, and still makes him a pervert.

jet_lagg
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64039

Post by jet_lagg »

VickyCaramel wrote: Saying, "It's just mass hysteria" is not skepticism. And linking us to an article where the BBC is declaring the story fake based on the word of the accused is not exactly convincing.

I really hope this story comes to nothing, but for every case of mass hysteria you can point to, I can point to three real child sex rings in the media, entertainment, sport or politics where powerful people were doing the most outrageous things, practically in the open because they were powerful and assumed they would get away with it.

Today's front pages:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38179882
http://news.sky.com/story/chelsea-paid- ... n-10679771
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... ve-broken/

And then you have cases like Jimmy Saville, where he abused children for 50 years, it was an open secret, nobody took it seriously. And Rotherham where gangs abused thousands of children for decades, everybody knew, nobody did anything.

Under UK child pornography laws, at least two of these actors could be facing jail over some of those paintings... thats how bad they are. It is a little too early to be writing this off as a moral panic.
People that want everyone to calm the fuck down about Pizzagate are not "writing this off" as a moral panic though, we're saying that for all the world it looks like a moral panic and for the love of humanity please don't accuse someone of running a kiddie sex ring until you can prove they're running a kiddie sex ring. By all means do your own digging, but don't go shouting from the rooftops until you've actually found something concrete. This is a heinous, heinous thing to tar someone with, so we had better be damn sure there's some truth to it before we help propagate the rumor.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64040

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Instead of claiming to be a skeptic (which is a widely misunderstood term, anyway), why not take the few seconds that are required to say that you try to have beliefs that take both the baseline likelihood and the current evidence into account, while ignoring whether you'd prefer the claim to be true?

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64041

Post by VickyCaramel »

MarcusAu wrote:I'm sure this will be of interest to some here.

96 - Not Out!

[youtube][/youtube]
I don't buy the story about the pump. Not for a moment.

He says there were three jeeps in the patrol.
Each Jeep would have been equipped with two spare tyres, at least one bottle jack, a full puncture repair kit, and probably at least two pumps. They had everything they needed for punctures plus spares in spades because punctures were common and the tyres were often deflated and reflated for different ground - I don't know for sure, but I doubt they pumped the tyres up one at a time.

Why the hell would you go borrow a pump from the Germans when you have three jeeps full of equipment?

I think it more likely that they wanted to go plant the Lewes bombs on the AA guns, and used the pump as a ruse.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64042

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Snopes, the pro Clinton liberal biased website is working hard to cover up pizzagate. The truth is out there. :shock:
http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64043

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Billie from Ockham wrote:Instead of claiming to be a skeptic (which is a widely misunderstood term, anyway), why not take the few seconds that are required to say that you try to have beliefs that take both the baseline likelihood and the current evidence into account, while ignoring whether you'd prefer the claim to be true?
Where's the fun in that? Being a skeptic means that you look critically at every claim, even dismissing some out of hand if they disagree with your biases. If a claim fits your preconceived notions and biases, it must be true because you're a skeptic.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64044

Post by VickyCaramel »

jet_lagg wrote:
VickyCaramel wrote: Saying, "It's just mass hysteria" is not skepticism. And linking us to an article where the BBC is declaring the story fake based on the word of the accused is not exactly convincing.

I really hope this story comes to nothing, but for every case of mass hysteria you can point to, I can point to three real child sex rings in the media, entertainment, sport or politics where powerful people were doing the most outrageous things, practically in the open because they were powerful and assumed they would get away with it.

Today's front pages:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38179882
http://news.sky.com/story/chelsea-paid- ... n-10679771
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... ve-broken/

And then you have cases like Jimmy Saville, where he abused children for 50 years, it was an open secret, nobody took it seriously. And Rotherham where gangs abused thousands of children for decades, everybody knew, nobody did anything.

Under UK child pornography laws, at least two of these actors could be facing jail over some of those paintings... thats how bad they are. It is a little too early to be writing this off as a moral panic.
People that want everyone to calm the fuck down about Pizzagate are not "writing this off" as a moral panic though, we're saying that for all the world it looks like a moral panic and for the love of humanity please don't accuse someone of running a kiddie sex ring until you can prove they're running a kiddie sex ring. By all means do your own digging, but don't go shouting from the rooftops until you've actually found something concrete. This is a heinous, heinous thing to tar someone with, so we had better be damn sure there's some truth to it before we help propagate the rumor.
I have seen people try and weed out fact from hoax... very few sadly.
I have seen people say it's obvious bullshit. I have seen people "debunk" each piece of evidence in isolation without even waiting to see the bigger picture. I have also seen people say it is a child sex ring involving Obama and the Queen, and I have seen people say this is just what we expected to see in the end times. It is a mess at the moment.

I'm sitting back and waiting. I certainly haven't claimed anything... although, under UK law which is insanely restrictive yet vague about depictions of children and sexual violence, there would be definite grounds to make enquires. Also, if you have seen the photo-fit pictures of the "persons of interest" in the McCann case, the British police would be remiss if they didn't follow up. Even so, as far as I am concerned, I would mark this as "Something to keep one eye on" and nothing more.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64045

Post by Billie from Ockham »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:Instead of claiming to be a skeptic (which is a widely misunderstood term, anyway), why not take the few seconds that are required to say that you try to have beliefs that take both the baseline likelihood and the current evidence into account, while ignoring whether you'd prefer the claim to be true?
Where's the fun in that? Being a skeptic means that you look critically at every claim, even dismissing some out of hand if they disagree with your biases. If a claim fits your preconceived notions and biases, it must be true because you're a skeptic.
The main difference between what I suggested and standard skepticism is the default position. Skepticism sets the default as "not believe" (regardless of the a priori likelihood of the claim), while objective Bayesianism has no particular default.

In my opinion, the idea that one should have non-belief be the default is about as useful and logical as attaching a sharp and flat blade to a handle in order to scrape hair off your skin.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64046

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Guest_bf4a5b12 wrote:In a week of strange coincidences, today I heard what has to be the best (or possibly worst) Jimmy Saville joke ever.

CaughtUpLockedOut
Tease. Lay it on us.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64047

Post by Shatterface »

Skepticism is about subjecting claims to suitable enquiry not dismissing them outright.

In the case of climate change, evolution, etc. we follow the science.

Where the law is concerned, as skeptics we demand that claims of rape, child abuse, etc. be investigated by the police: we don't dismiss them out of hand, and we don't ignore the investigations because they don't match up with a worldview in which rapists and pedos simply don't exist.

The difference between the Savile case and Satanic Abuse is that the case has been investigated; when the police looked into SA claims they were debunked.

There's no fucking pint in demanding that allegations be investigated if we reject their findings out of hand.

Also, of the only thing some people ever posts about is that there's no such thing as kiddie fiddlers maybe they should develop a few other interests.

pro-boxing-fan
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64048

Post by pro-boxing-fan »

How i see PizzaGate so far: people running with the least charitable speculation when trying to tie 2 random facts together. Inevitably leading over time to people running with the least charitable speculation when trying to tie 2 previous random least charitable speculations.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64049

Post by pro-boxing-fan »

pro-boxing-fan wrote:How i see PizzaGate so far: people running with the least charitable speculation when trying to tie 2 random facts together. Inevitably leading over time to people running with the least charitable speculation when trying to tie 2 previous random least charitable speculations.
Im sorry but thing like this is not reasonable evidences of a pedophile ring.

https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://dc ... gross1.png

https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://dc ... .jpg?w=840

https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://dc ... mage31.png

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64050

Post by AndrewV69 »

free thoughtpolice wrote:Snopes, the pro Clinton liberal biased website is working hard to cover up pizzagate. The truth is out there. :shock:
http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/
Yep yep. Snopes is pro Dem. so of course...

However,

We have been here before. All the conspiracy nuts appear to have grabbed hold of this and are going full throttle.

My experience with this is that the conspiracy loons will grab any fact, any kernel of truth and spin it out and up in all kinds of directions with stuff pulled out of their arse so fast you will get dizzy.

Then the media gets into the act, and this bunch is notorious for getting their "facts" wrong, making up shyte out of whole cloth, mixing up cause and effect, wet streets cause rain, and so on and so on ...

Between the two groups you are going to get caught up in a whirlwind of confusing garbage that makes no sense, partial sense, not to mention complete nonsense and trying to sift through the whole mess is going to take so much time that the heat death of the universe is likely to happen before you can sort it out.

So unless you were there at the "beginning" good luck on figuring out what is going on.

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64051

Post by MarcusAu »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
The main difference between what I suggested and standard skepticism is the default position. Skepticism sets the default as "not believe" (regardless of the a priori likelihood of the claim), while objective Bayesianism has no particular default.

In my opinion, the idea that one should have non-belief be the default is about as useful and logical as attaching a sharp and flat blade to a handle in order to scrape hair off your skin.
So the issue is fluid for you.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64052

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:Instead of claiming to be a skeptic (which is a widely misunderstood term, anyway), why not take the few seconds that are required to say that you try to have beliefs that take both the baseline likelihood and the current evidence into account, while ignoring whether you'd prefer the claim to be true?
Where's the fun in that? Being a skeptic means that you look critically at every claim, even dismissing some out of hand if they disagree with your biases. If a claim fits your preconceived notions and biases, it must be true because you're a skeptic.
The main difference between what I suggested and standard skepticism is the default position. Skepticism sets the default as "not believe" (regardless of the a priori likelihood of the claim), while objective Bayesianism has no particular default.

In my opinion, the idea that one should have non-belief be the default is about as useful and logical as attaching a sharp and flat blade to a handle in order to scrape hair off your skin.
That sharp & flat blade can be pretty handy, so I'm told. Don't believe in shaving anymore, depletes the humours and leaves me phlematic.

Anyway, to clarify, my earlier comment was my lame attempt at humor.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64053

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Did you know that Comet Pizza has a refrigerated room out of view of the public?
What possible reason would restaurant have something like that for? :twisted:

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64054

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

free thoughtpolice wrote:Did you know that Comet Pizza has a refrigerated room out of view of the public?
What possible reason would restaurant have something like that for? :twisted:
I heard they served preserved animal tissue as well. To children.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64055

Post by free thoughtpolice »

You do know that pizza is a code word for child sex don't you? You can just ignore evidence like that if you want, just don't call yourself a skeptic. :snooty:

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64056

Post by Dave »

free thoughtpolice wrote:Did you know that Comet Pizza has a refrigerated room out of view of the public?
What possible reason would restaurant have something like that for? :twisted:
Even more suspicious, they have one in view of the public too!!!

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64057

Post by free thoughtpolice »

I. Just. Can't. Even.
[youtube][/youtube]

Finger licking? :scared-shocked: Tell me that Clinton didn't have this on her computer.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64058

Post by jet_lagg »

I don't know if this makes me depressed my life to date has been so lackluster, or motivated to start social climbing.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64059

Post by VickyCaramel »

free thoughtpolice wrote:You do know that pizza is a code word for child sex don't you? You can just ignore evidence like that if you want, just don't call yourself a skeptic. :snooty:
I know that chicken is code for teen boys in gay slang, not always but usually underage. I know that the emails don't make any sense unless they are using code/slang. And I know they contain the word "chicken". And I know these emails are sent between multiple people.

Therefore you have a reasonable suspicion that you have a group of men who have an interest in teen boys.

Not enough to draw any conclusions, but given the subject matter, enough to warrant further investigation.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64060

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/uva-put ... es-matter/
That is disturbing. As is this-
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/black-l ... -attacker/
Apparently expressing your views on social media should get you fired or suspended. And both "sides" are doing it with relish. The days of simply disagreeing with people seem to be over.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64061

Post by Tribble »

free thoughtpolice wrote:Did you know that Comet Pizza has a refrigerated room out of view of the public?
What possible reason would restaurant have something like that for? :twisted:
Yeah, it's called a proofing room. You put proofing cabinets in it. Like this one: Metro C515-PFC-4 C5 1 Series Non-Insulated Proofing Cabinet - Clear Door

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/images/ ... 895647.jpg
Thanks to its dual control system, this Metro C515-PFC-4 C5 1 Series proofing cabinet allows you to easily adjust both temperature and humidity levels independently, to create the perfect environment for proofing breads and other products at your commercial bakery.
You do that because you need that to control the yeast growth in the dough. Too hot, it rises too fast or even gets killed. Too cold and it doesn't rise fast enough or even goes dormant.

But conspiracy morons and those dumb enough to believe them will undoubtedly discard the obvious reason for a pizza parlor (or any bakery) to have an air conditioned room in order to continue to wank to their bullshit. Even though they have as much proof it's for kiddie sex as the 9/11 truthers have the the US Government was behind 9/11 and they're the ones that caused the Twin Towers to fall.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64062

Post by rayshul »

The "evidence" of some photos (as pro boxing lover posted above) are completely ridiculous. The coded emails though are credible as fuck and the art genuinely creeps me out.

I think there's definitely something going on there but what it is I'm not sure. Also, fuck me, why do these politicians all have links to actual jailed pedophiles? I mean why is that a thing?

There are shitloads of autists on the case though so I'm sure there'll be some more real mad shit happening soon enough.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64063

Post by Tribble »

Now, for something I found funny (instead of moronic pizza-sex-thing):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyRpzHxUoAEn08f.jpg

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64064

Post by MarcusAu »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:https://heatst.com/culture-wars/uva-put ... es-matter/
That is disturbing. As is this-
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/black-l ... -attacker/
Apparently expressing your views on social media should get you fired or suspended. And both "sides" are doing it with relish. The days of simply disagreeing with people seem to be over.
No they're not.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64065

Post by Tribble »

rayshul wrote:The "evidence" of some photos (as pro boxing lover posted above) are completely ridiculous. The coded emails though are credible as fuck and the art genuinely creeps me out.

I think there's definitely something going on there but what it is I'm not sure. Also, fuck me, why do these politicians all have links to actual jailed pedophiles? I mean why is that a thing?

There are shitloads of autists on the case though so I'm sure there'll be some more real mad shit happening soon enough.
No they're not. You're just being gullible.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64066

Post by free thoughtpolice »

VickyCaramel wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:You do know that pizza is a code word for child sex don't you? You can just ignore evidence like that if you want, just don't call yourself a skeptic. :snooty:
I know that chicken is code for teen boys in gay slang, not always but usually underage. I know that the emails don't make any sense unless they are using code/slang. And I know they contain the word "chicken". And I know these emails are sent between multiple people.

Therefore you have a reasonable suspicion that you have a group of men who have an interest in teen boys.

Not enough to draw any conclusions, but given the subject matter, enough to warrant further investigation.
Any particular emails that you can quote?

fuzzy
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64067

Post by fuzzy »

Can anyone here honestly say they've seen chicken used as a pizza topping?

Wake up, sheeple!

MarcusAu
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64068

Post by MarcusAu »

Rayshul,

You were given a recommended reading list last week - your book review is now due.

(Or failing that some counter-suggestions).

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64069

Post by feathers »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:That sharp & flat blade can be pretty handy, so I'm told. Don't believe in shaving anymore, depletes the humours and leaves me phlematic.
Then I suggest the next time you hold the sharp & flat blade almost parallel to the skin rather then under an angle of 30° or more.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64070

Post by VickyCaramel »

Tribble wrote: But conspiracy morons and those dumb enough to believe them will undoubtedly discard the obvious reason for a pizza parlor (or any bakery) to have an air conditioned room in order to continue to wank to their bullshit. Even though they have as much proof it's for kiddie sex as the 9/11 truthers have the the US Government was behind 9/11 and they're the ones that caused the Twin Towers to fall.
The reason the conspiracy nuts are dumb enough to believe that it might be some kind of murder room, might be because Planet Pizza tagged it as with #Killroom and #Murder.

To most of us it is just evidence that Jimmy Comet is a creepy fucker. I certainly wouldn't hire him as a babysitter.

feathers
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64071

Post by feathers »

Tribble wrote:You do that because you need that to control the yeast growth in the dough. Too hot, it rises too fast or even gets killed. Too cold and it doesn't rise fast enough or even goes dormant.
Aha! Code speak! "yeast growth in the dough" = getting an erection from young flesh. "Too cold and it doesn't rise fast enough" - say no more, wink wink.

VickyCaramel
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64072

Post by VickyCaramel »

Tribble wrote:Now, for something I found funny (instead of moronic pizza-sex-thing):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyRpzHxUoAEn08f.jpg
I think it should be added that Hitler was never convicted of anything, and it isn't fair to smear his memory when he isn't here to face his accusers.
You also need to bare in mind the political climate in which he was accused.

:hankey:

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64073

Post by jet_lagg »

Chicken is also slang for coward. It's also a game you play to discover which party is the bigger one. Shortened to chick, it's slang for girl. If tenuous connections are allowed, then even with even a little imagination you can build from any starting point to the conclusion you want. You stack up enough random coincidence (and those are easy to find anywhere) to call it smoke. Then say, while there's no proof of fire, surely this warrants an investigation. Then you get to say that Comet Pizza (CP? 4Chan slang for Child Porn?!?!), while not proven child molesters, are being investigated for running a child rape ring, and hey I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying...

It's a terrible game.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64074

Post by Billie from Ockham »

MarcusAu wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:
The main difference between what I suggested and standard skepticism is the default position. Skepticism sets the default as "not believe" (regardless of the a priori likelihood of the claim), while objective Bayesianism has no particular default.

In my opinion, the idea that one should have non-belief be the default is about as useful and logical as attaching a sharp and flat blade to a handle in order to scrape hair off your skin.
So the issue is fluid for you.
Well, I'll go so far as to say that if someone's fluid gets on me, I wouldn't object very strongly.

Billie from Ockham
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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64075

Post by Billie from Ockham »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Anyway, to clarify, my earlier comment was my lame attempt at humor.
As was mine. Recall my nym.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64076

Post by rayshul »

MarcusAu wrote:Rayshul,

You were given a recommended reading list last week - your book review is now due.

(Or failing that some counter-suggestions).
I just finished Going Postal. It was average but I did get to the end. I'm writing at the moment so no further bookreadery until my mojo there wears off. My next read will be one of Rebecca's books.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64077

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote:You do know that pizza is a code word for child sex don't you? You can just ignore evidence like that if you want, just don't call yourself a skeptic. :snooty:
I know that chicken is code for teen boys in gay slang, not always but usually underage. I know that the emails don't make any sense unless they are using code/slang. And I know they contain the word "chicken". And I know these emails are sent between multiple people.

Therefore you have a reasonable suspicion that you have a group of men who have an interest in teen boys.

Not enough to draw any conclusions, but given the subject matter, enough to warrant further investigation.
The part in bold isn't exactly true. People don't know that the emails don't make any sense unless they are using code/slang. People suppose this because some of them (not all of them) are weirdly phrased, but supposing isn't knowing. The case seems weak so far.

There are some really stupid speculations (like the idea that the logo of Comet Ping Pong, which are quite clearly two ping-pong paddles, is a "pedophile symbol"). James Alefantis' name has been suggested to be an anagram of "J'aime les enfants", but it's not (there's an "n" missing) and we don't know whether it was this person's name since when he was born (which would make the "anagram" theory very unlikely) or whether he changed his name later in life.

Some of the photos which were said to belong to Alefantis' instagram were instead taken from other websites.

[tweet][/tweet]

(Note that the user who found out about the Infowars lie about the picture, Marla Craig, is a proud Trump supporter).

Others are indeed his, but I don't think I've seen anyone alleging he posted illegal or suggestive material. Laws on those kind of images are pretty strict.

I'm not saying that I'm completely sure that this is just a moral panic, but evidence seems far too flimsy to build a decent case. Many have already sent threats over to the parties involved, which I find rather disgusting and far too similar to how the SJWs have acted after, for example, Michael Shermer was accused of rape. I despise vigilantism and especially internet vigilantism, and on these flimsy bases I think it's even more reprehensible.

Anyway I'd like to apply some of the things I've studied to see if there's anything to it. If someone has a link to a decent depository of all the emails in question (they seem hard to find between crazy conspiracy sites and the articles where they say it's all fake but don't provide any useful links) I can attempt some kind of linguistic analysis. I've had an exam on forensic linguistics which included things like a study of word substitution ciphers.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64078

Post by feathers »

jet_lagg wrote:Chicken is also slang for coward. It's also a game you play to discover which party is the bigger one. Shortened to chick, it's slang for girl.
Believe it or not, I've been told it's also a bird in the pheasant family whose white flesh is considered a delicacy in some cultures.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64079

Post by free thoughtpolice »

[youtube][/youtube]

There's your evidence folks.

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Re: The Refuge of the Toads

#64080

Post by Kirbmarc »

VickyCaramel wrote:
Tribble wrote: But conspiracy morons and those dumb enough to believe them will undoubtedly discard the obvious reason for a pizza parlor (or any bakery) to have an air conditioned room in order to continue to wank to their bullshit. Even though they have as much proof it's for kiddie sex as the 9/11 truthers have the the US Government was behind 9/11 and they're the ones that caused the Twin Towers to fall.
The reason the conspiracy nuts are dumb enough to believe that it might be some kind of murder room, might be because Planet Pizza tagged it as with #Killroom and #Murder.

To most of us it is just evidence that Jimmy Comet is a creepy fucker. I certainly wouldn't hire him as a babysitter.
There are other possible, less creepy, interpretations. From what I've seen it's not the Comet Ping Pong Pizza which has labeled the room with #Killroom and #Murder, but some people who commented on their facebook page. Since they serve pizza with meat toppings and they might store meat in the conditioned room it's possible, for example, that the people who commented with #Killroom and #Murder are vegan/vegetarian activists/keyboard warriors.

Locked