The Refuge of the Toads

[Really?]

Not a woman:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/as ... er-169.jpg

Woman:

http://hencam.com/static/uploads/2015/0 ... -shell.jpg

[Steersman]

A teenager transitions into adulthood, a woman doesn't transition into anything majorly new at menopause. She simply stops being fertile.

Spoken like a true man. ;-) But some "women" would seem to have a different view:

The Bitch Is Back
Are menopausal women mad, bad, and dangerous? Yes—but they’re really just returning to normal.

In any case, fertility is the defining attribute for the definition of "woman" - which is the question on the floor.

I get the Steers perspective, I could understand a definition of "non functional female". But a car without an engine is still a car. Becky's zoom box didn't morph into a meaningless pile of parts just because it lost a major part of its utility. (Take that as you will !!)

If you think an car without an engine is still a car then I'd hate to see you try to buy one. Maybe "engineless-car", a compound word, might make sense but "engine" is really one of the sine qua nons for "car".

And when you are dealing with people, the inflexible use of utilitarian terms is especially unhelpful. You simply can't call someone a "functionally broken woman".

So Steers, no one else is so bound by the definition of car woman that they need to change it to accommodate the nuance of change in 'utility'. No one sees menopause as a definitional problem to solve.

Normally, I would agree with you about "unhelpful" and "definitional problem". But desperate times - Bruce Jenner and Dave Muscato and their ilk laying claim to the term - require desperate measures, so to speak. Like going back to first principles.

[Really?]

Not a woman:

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e3501b9 ... 974250.JPG

Woman:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 494a43.jpg

[Steersman]

Not a woman:

[.img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/as ... er-169.jpg[/img]

Woman:

[.img]http://hencam.com/static/uploads/2015/0 ... -shell.jpg[/img]

:lol: Though I think "female" is the better term in the latter case - transwoman, at a stretch, in the former - as "woman" is defined as "female human".

[Really?]

Not a woman:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Cross.jpg

Woman:

http://www.guias.midia.guiya.com.br/pub ... x_bbox.jpg

Muscato:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CeHf ... /photo.jpg

(No, seriously. That's the image she uses on some of her social media stuff.)

[welch]

Normally, I would agree with you about "unhelpful" and "definitional problem". But desperate times - Bruce Jenner and Dave Muscato and their ilk laying claim to the term - require desperate measures, so to speak. Like going back to first principles.

:doh:

[MacGruberKnows]

The arguments about toilets is finally fading out. But only because Steersman has become the new hot topic of the week.

This place has officially hit the shitter.

[Brive1987]

A teenager transitions into adulthood, a woman doesn't transition into anything majorly new at menopause. She simply stops being fertile.

Says the guy who didn't marry a woman when she was 25 and stay with her until she was 55+.

ps. you're wrong

pps. very wrong

I married when she was 27 (I was 23) and she is now PM.

Despite natural changes, she is still the woman I wed. I think we have different concepts in mind.

[Steersman]

Getting this in before the FT bans me to the outer darkness - "with extreme prejudice", thanks rayshul. And Phil. And screwtape. And anyone else who I might have missed who expressed similar opinions.

Though, in passing, not sure that anathematizing people quoting me reflects all that well on the supposed claim to fame of the Pit - i.e., free speech and all that.

I believe the real issue Steers is in persisting in your arguments way past the time you should have dropped them as unpersuasive. At least that is what I do at any rate.

It just seems to annoy people if you persist in your arguments when the people you are talking to see them as invalid and for reasons that have been laid out for you.

Kind of annoys fundamentalists - of most stripes - when you challenge their dogma too. Don't see that as much of a reason to cease and desist. In addition, they too have their "reasons" that I doubt you would give much credence to.

You are not helping your cause when you continue to argue.

Maybe. But I think there's a principle at stake here that's worth risking some political capital on, not to mention the fact that its denial has some far-reaching if not problematic consequences. As Matt Cavanaugh recently noted:

But Steers is right in one aspect: if Muscato is a woman, [then] the term 'woman' can mean anything -- thus, nothing.

"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson

In fact at that point you are hurting it. A couple of things you may find edifying: ....
Just saying. Ya'know?

Yea, I know - thanks for the info. And for trying to correct the errors of my ways. :-) But while I certainly agree with your sources that exactly how we think is somewhat convoluted and problematic - part of the reason for my Sudoku graph - one might reasonably ask who they're most applicable to here.

[Steersman]

I've had enough of seeing you fuckers quote Steerzo's endless BS, so I plan to Wonderize him later today. I'll post an announcement when I've done so.

Good. Now's the time to do it. ....

Get in your box, Steersman: ...

Chuck you, Farley.

[Steersman]

A teenager transitions into adulthood, a woman doesn't transition into anything majorly new at menopause. She simply stops being fertile.

Says the guy who didn't marry a woman when she was 25 and stay with her until she was 55+.

ps. you're wrong

pps. very wrong

I married when she was 27 (I was 23) and she is now PM.

Despite natural changes, she is still the woman I wed. I think we have different concepts in mind.

Yea. And yours seems to be little better than a collection of stereotypes - a "collective identity" - that a rather large number of "real" women - i.e., those who can actually produce ova - won't meet. You're going to deny their right to the label, the mantle?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

The Delbruck that helped popularise the infamous "heavy hoplite" canard? :mrgreen:

I'm not familiar with that term -- I've only read Delbrück in German.

No big deal, I have just read some stuff on Delbruck being the boogie man who popularised the concept that hoplites wore 70 pounds of kit. And therefore had to fight in a mass driven scrum. Modern thought is 20-30 pounds and far more individual flexibility. Who the hell knows.

Just wanted to see if I could ruffle your Teutonic sensibilities. ;)

Delbruck had a thing with numbers though. He argued for far smaller Persian armies in Alexandrian campaigns as well as smaller armies in medieval times.

I'll have to check on Marathon, but IIRC, Delbrück at times used the Prussian field kit weight as a yardstick to estimate what practially could or couldn't be done. I know he used the Prussian army order of march (assumed much more compact than a straggling ancient army) to show that an army of one million, whose head was just reaching Marathon, would still have its tail in Susa.

Beyond the armor/stamina issue, for Marathon, Delbrück relied on field surveys to locate the supposed burial mound, and thus calculate the distance to the logical jumping-off point of the greek phalanx.

[Michael J]

If Steersman goes, how will I keep my scrolling finger in shape.

Orphan Black must read the pit. In the finale of season 3 Helena was double wielding a knife and a screwdriver.

[Really?]

Not women:

http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/592x888/s_v ... sta_b_.jpg

http://i1.wp.com/radaronline.com/wp-con ... our-05.jpg

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-stati ... 983-13.jpg

[Guestus Aurelius]

[youtube]chIa2McOtgI[/youtube]

[Really?]

[youtube]chIa2McOtgI[/youtube]

How ironic you would use that clip. That little boy grew up to be this woman who is also a real estate agent.

http://bhhsadv.com/pageimages/1/Blog-License2.jpg

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Not women:


http://i1.wp.com/radaronline.com/wp-con ... our-05.jpg

Female reptile?

[jet_lagg]

Is Jenna Talackova a "real woman"?
[.img]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1119614/image ... cebook.jpg[/img]

Real enough to win beauty pageants, clearly. Real enough to arouse men. If you're looking for someone to bear your children on the other hand, no.

She looks like a real woman. But, hate to break to you, appearances aren't actualities. Hence the necessity for objective, quantifiable, criteria.

<snip>

Way to miss the fucking point. Again you pretend we live in a world where people ought to demand extensive medical examinations before they can rationally call someone a he or a she.

Forgive me Facist Tit. You were right. I should not have engaged. Don't banish Steers. I promise to not quote him anymore.

[d4m10n]

The arguments about toilets is finally fading out. But only because Steersman has become the new hot topic of the week.

Probably worth asking whether post-menopausal women should have a separate toilet, apart from the real women.

[comhcinc]

[youtube]chIa2McOtgI[/youtube]

How ironic you would use that clip. That little boy grew up to be this woman who is also a real estate agent.

http://bhhsadv.com/pageimages/1/Blog-License2.jpg

No.

[HunnyBunny]

Since FT posted about wonderising Steers because everyone was quoting him, we have had 2 pages of people quoting Steers. I think the pleas for Steers to stay are a lie, everyone secretly wants him gone so they can detox and take the pledge.

[d4m10n]

On a lighter note: It's the one year anniversary of the invention of the blog blogpost booty call.



[youtube]D_b6uKMVeEY[/youtube]

[HunnyBunny]

The nameless members of the Milwaukee Pride Parade Board of Directors stripped legendary rights activist Miriam Ben-Shalom of her honored spot as Grand Marshall of the June 12, 2016 “Heroes of Pride” event after men monitoring her Facebook page noticed women had made posts there that were critical of the idea of heterosexual “male lesbian

Never question the trans.
Someone should start a list of those people who have been othered by the trans. I notice Randi Lee Harper has recently joined the ranks. Fuck it I might even start a list myself.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/201 ... ll-honors/

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

For those of you that don't want steerler to go away I would suggest getting off of his merry go round because from the way I read it you are doing exact what is annoying our great and wonderful leader.

And I don't blame him one bit.

Shatterface I am looking at you man.

I agree that fisking is probably not the best approach. In fact it rarely is, as woods morph into trees.

But good growth management can help new trees grow, instead of being strangled during "childhood" by rapid-growth weeds.

Did I understand your metaphor correctly?

[Brive1987]

I'm not sure. Any more.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Dudebro, I feel you. I have the cunt on ignore, but I see his name flash past so often that I feel like I am on a Steersman fansite and it confuses me.

[Aneris]

This is getting entirely silly. There are no essences or quasi-essences, but there are laws of nature that produce patterns. They are consistent, and as such we ended up with brains who can detect such patterns, see them as things and recognize recurring properties. Because of this, we have an intuition how people with certain chromosomes look like without ever checking out their chromosomes. Nobody cares how they actually are, whether there is secretly a Z or pretzel-shaped one in there (for the sake of the argument). Likewise with genitaila, or ova. We go by intuitions, informed by appearances and other clues we can detect (voice etc). Since they have been consistent enough, we have developed the intuition of essences, of true forms that seem to underly categories. But these essences are more like the invisible wires of association and analogy making that make one pair of duck-feet seem like another, and always on on beaked creatures, and thus essential to ducks.

Now humans can disguise themselves and in case of transitioning even alter some biological conditions, so they are precisely no longer following the natural patterns produced by nature. What now? The obvious answer is: we still go by appearance and intuitions drilled into us, at least since childhood. If something walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, …

Should we see something “off” we don't throw everything away. We simply modify one or more properties, which is no problem at all. If this happens to be common enough, our graded category grows a little and will absorb these cases, too. We happily accept the concept of stepmothers and stepfathers, yet they aren't fathers or mothers at all, going by steers-style definitions. And yet they are just like fathers and mothers and if they adopt a child at a young age, and never reveal it, nobody but them may ever know that they aren't “truly” mothers or fathers.

We can also see a duck that can't quack, a dog without a wagging tail or a woman with a beard. The latter will prompt us to flip it around, because beards are prototypical for men, i.e. a strong property that are central to the graded categorization among men. There can be women with one arm, or with short hair, or any number of things, but we will get insecure when distinguishing (prototypical) properties are missing or “wrong”. What now? As always, if this becomes a thing, we will gradually expand the category. First, refer to it with sorta-modifiers and quotationmarks (stepmothers are sort-of-mothers; her “mother” gave her a gift) that indicate something is not exactly like the core members of the category, and over time, if common enough, will perhaps fully see the new additions as part of that category. This is unlikely with beards on wonen, for obvious reasons and it cannot happen with a billion Muscatos, either: we just have the effect as with the euphemism treadmill: some new word would then signify women as they are produced by the laws of nature (i.e. biology).

Generally categories can also be inconsistent, where e.g. some people once saw telephones as furniture and others didn't. Sometimes even the same person would answer one time they were furniture, and another time answered they weren't. Nobody actually goes by definitions, but by habits. People usually don't have to think too much about this. I know, I wrote much of this before somewhere, but anyways.

[Brive1987]

While my world twirls, I also take back the nice things I said about my wife. That is until we recover enough to start talking civil again today. Meh. Women. Maybe we should redefine them into oblivion.

[fuzzy]

http://media3.giphy.com/media/iJxHzcuNcCJXi/200w.gif

[Brive1987]

I would never have picked Aneris as a beard-a-phobe.

http://i.imgur.com/DMEPNIu.jpg

[katamari Damassi]

I would never have picked Aneris as a beard-a-phobe.

http://i.imgur.com/DMEPNIu.jpg

Khal Drogo has really let himself go.

[Brive1987]

Catch Richard's eye popping talk at "The Space"

The Space is also hosting a range of other similarly grounded events.

http://i.imgur.com/0KMcR5I.jpg

[Steersman]

This is getting entirely silly. There are no essences or quasi-essences, but there are laws of nature that produce patterns. ....

Not quite sure who all of that was for but I kind of think you're looking at it from the wrong end of the telescope, are using the wrong metric, or insist on putting the cart before the horse. Consider the view of taxonomy:

Taxonomy (from Ancient Greek: τάξις taxis, "arrangement", and -νομία -nomia, "method"[1]) is the science of defining groups of biological organisms on the basis of shared characteristics and giving names to those groups. ....

The characteristics come first and determines the definitions - in this case, those who produce ova and those who don't; a binary classification - which then becomes "essential" to the definition. Kind of surpised to see you trying to characterize my argument as one of gender essentialism:

When looking at essentialism, which has a long and illustrious history within the development of Western philosophy, in terms of feminist theory and gender studies it is a term which refers here to the attribution of a fixed essence to women.

It may look that way but only because you, apparently, want to lump every last behavioural and physiological attribute that might correlate in the slightest degree with anyone on the planet who "produces ova" under the rubric of "woman" - a "collective identity. That is, putting the cart before the horse. You can do that but it leads to no end of contradictions, not to mention causing a myriad of social problems, making it difficult if not impossible to steer the cart, and is hardly little better than post-modernism.

My argument, and apparently that of most dictionairies that emphasize the single biological criterion as primary, is that a particular and singular physiological attribute merely defines the class. Kind of like paying membership dues to become, for example, a Rotarian: pay the dues - an essential element ("Rotarian essentialism", the horror!) - and you can call yourself one; don't and you can't.

Generally categories can also be inconsistent, where e.g. some people once saw telephones as furniture and others didn't. Sometimes even the same person would answer one time they were furniture, and another time answered they weren't. Nobody actually goes by definitions, but by habits. People usually don't have to think too much about this. I know, I wrote much of this before somewhere, but anyways.

Not quite sure about your "general categories can also be inconsistent" but I kind of think that is related to the problems in taxonomy where multiple factors, all existing over a spectrum, are used to define several classes that all essentially shade one into the other. Which is, I think, not at all the case of the primary dictionary definition for woman where a single criterion is used to define a binary class: those who produce ova and those who don't. But in the case of multiple factors one can still use something like principal components analysis - something I'd recommend you take a close look at, although I find it a tricky or confusing concept - to decide which factor has the largest population correlated with it.

[Guest_df4fcc85]

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Makes me think of someone...


http://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/fe ... g?t=6B4C26

[MacGruberKnows]

I believe Sargon of Akkhad has a petition to abolish gender studies. With that in mind while watching the UMass Republicans 'Triggering' video I had this to say:

Gender/queer/race studies is about pushing out an agenda. If there was a 'conservative' studies all about pushing out an agenda the sjw's would be outraged. Yes, that conservative agenda stuff does exist at places like Oral Roberts and other private Universities, but not at public Universities as is right. Gender/queer/race studies should be defunded by all levels of government. It is hate mongering. The Einstein of sociology is Marx. Enough said. If the regressive left wants those hate studies, let the regressive left set up their own universities and pay for the hate mongering themselves.

Do you think I could sell T-Shirts silk-screened with "The Einstein of Sociology is Marx" and make a profit? Or would they be fake T-Shsirts? Or am I making a Mykeru out of myself?

I'll flounce off now.

[MacGruberKnows]

Makes me think of someone...


http://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/fe ... g?t=6B4C26

When I think of that someone I think of Pavlov's dog.

But Pavlov's Robot works for me even better.

[feathers]

I think I have to throw in with some of the other folks, steers may put up walls of text, but it isn't too hard to scroll by if I don't wish to read it. Gulaging just seems to be very UN-pit-like to me.

Just my 2 cents. You're the boss.

I think it was mostly about people quoting Steers at length. But maybe TFT can elaborate, if he hasn't ninjaed me yet.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

So, production of ova is not the definition you're using for "woman". I see.

___

Also: ovarian transplantation & uterine transplantation have each been performed, see for example here, here, and here. It turns out they've only been performed in people considered to be biologically female (by gyn surgery researchers whose criteria for "female" have been more inclusive than Steers uses), in part because the purpose has been to allow pregnancy. Is there a biological reason that ovarian &/or uterine transplants, appropriately HLA-matched & with appropriate pharmacologic immune suppression, could not some day be performed in people considered, going into the surgery, biologically male or intersex?

Probably :nin: 'd

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... poster.jpg

[feathers]

I'm very triggered by this whole "hips" thing. Remember I only have one left...

Cheer up mate, I also only have one left hip.





</deliberate misinterpretation>

[MacGruberKnows]

Makes me think of someone...


http://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/fe ... g?t=6B4C26

When I think of that someone I think of Pavlov's dog.

But Pavlov's Robot works for me even better.

OK, had some genius insight just now. You remember Schrodinger's Cat? Well, I give you Steersman's Woman. A woman is only fertile 5 or (6?) days in a month. For about 3 weeks out of about a month a woman is not fertile. Is the human bio-unit a women or not a women? We cannot tell until the human bio-unit becomes or does not become fertile again. What is that human bio-unit until the next fertility cycle establishes itself or does not? The implications are obvious. Among a list of other things all 'female' drivers licences should be rescinded in those 3 weeks of indeterminancy and reinstated upon proof ( a used feminine 'protection device' comes to mind) of fertility being re-established.

What say you Pavlov's Robot?

Anyone with idea's for "The Einstein of Sociology is Mars" or "Pavlov's Robot" or "Schrodinger's Women" on a T-Shirt let me know. I will cut you a really good royalty deal. Even you Mykeru.

[Brive1987]

I'll take 15%. Ta.

[MacGruberKnows]

Catch Richard's eye popping talk at "The Space"

The Space is also hosting a range of other similarly grounded events.

http://i.imgur.com/0KMcR5I.jpg

My brother had a child with a woman who spent a $250,000 inheritance on 'spiritual enlightenment' in a couple of years. Anyway, she had a 'Reiki' 'master' at her place for a week. He had incredibly intense sex with his girlfriend or maybe a client one morning. He was in BC, Canada, and she was 2000 miles away in Ontario, Canada. No phone lines or internet involved. She had given 10's of thousands of dollars to this idiot. Could never figure out why 'spriritualism' is so top-heavy with materialism. You can become spiritually enlightened if you give me enough money. Can't quite fit that on a t-shirt, but I'll make it work.

[jimhabegger]

... doesn't deserve to banned or relegated to his "safe space". Neither did JimHabegger.

I disagree. Regardless of a person's motives or intentions, or even whether it's his fault or not, if the discussion is being flooded by arguments with him or discussions about him, I don't see it as a threat to freedom of speech, to Wonderize him. I see it as a threat to freedom of speech to continue to let his words monopolize the discussion. Wonderizing a person does not interfere at all with him saying what he wants to say, or with anyone who wants to, reading what he says and responding to it.

The only reason I didn't Wonderize myself sooner than I did was because I honestly thought that I should leave that up to the owner.

[blitzem]

I believe Sargon of Akkhad has a petition to abolish gender studies. With that in mind while watching the UMass Republicans 'Triggering' video I had this to say:

Gender/queer/race studies is about pushing out an agenda. If there was a 'conservative' studies all about pushing out an agenda the sjw's would be outraged. Yes, that conservative agenda stuff does exist at places like Oral Roberts and other private Universities, but not at public Universities as is right. Gender/queer/race studies should be defunded by all levels of government. It is hate mongering. The Einstein of sociology is Marx. Enough said. If the regressive left wants those hate studies, let the regressive left set up their own universities and pay for the hate mongering themselves.

Do you think I could sell T-Shirts silk-screened with "The Einstein of Sociology is Marx" and make a profit? Or would they be fake T-Shsirts? Or am I making a Mykeru out of myself?

I'll flounce off now.

Charge $75 US per shirt and confuse the crap out of them.

[piginthecity]

Catch Richard's eye popping talk at "The Space"

I definitely think Carrier is missing a trick by failing to combine his two enthusiasms for fun and profit.

How about a range of gimp masks adorned with the phrase "Jesus didn't exist and neither do I" ?

[piginthecity]

Is anybody here keeping up with the latest anti-Semitism row in the UK? Popcorn time as Ken Livingston, who, when he was Mayor of London, had a nasty habit of inviting the most horrid anti-Semitic, homophobic Islamist hate preachers over for tea and a cosy chat, has now stomped around various TV and radio studios trying to defend a comment he made saying Hitler was a Zionist, or something.

We all noticed the SJWs and regressive left have a bit of a problem with anti-Semitism, and their pandering to Islamism, but it seems, in the UK at least, the chickens are coming home to roost in "anti-Zionist" Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party. You might also want to research Labour's director of communications, essentially their spin doctor - Seamus Milne. With him at the helm, everybody knew this happen.

The Commander knew it would, of course. Naturally, Ken's views and actions will be defended by the likes of various shady types such as CJ Werleman, the fraud who became a pro-Islamist shill on the back of PZ's "new atheists are evil white scum" rhetoric.

I guess we here would recognise that the authoritarian left's "anti-Semitism" is not exactly like the Nazi version, but has more to do with "punching up" on behalf of the pro-islamist Galloway/Shah/Livingstone faction.

It's a good thing that the disinfectant of sunlight is being shone on this, although it is interesting that what Livingstone said about Hitler and Zionism, while demonstrably wrong, isn't really outside the bounds of what should be allowed to be discussed, and it's him who is being no-platformed.

I would say it's a case of the anti-SJW faction adopting the methods of the SJW's in order to defeat them. In the short term this might work for the labour party, but it can only do damage if there's a prolonged competition for victimhood status between the pro-Muslim and pro-Jewish elements.

[piginthecity]

I've just thought of another idea - a spanking paddle with the words on: "Jesus isn't going to save your bottom - because he DIDN'T EXIST !"

[piginthecity]

Or another spanking paddle with: "This is probably going to hurt - According to Bayes' Theorem !"

[NoGodsEver]

The arguments about toilets is finally fading out. But only because Steersman has become the new hot topic of the week.

This place has officially hit the shitter.

Yep. The only thing more boring than Steersman is people talking about Steersman.

[Steersman]

Makes me think of someone...
[.img]http://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/fe ... g?t=6B4C26[/img]

When I think of that someone I think of Pavlov's dog.
But Pavlov's Robot works for me even better.

OK, had some genius insight just now. You remember Schrodinger's Cat? Well, I give you Steersman's Woman. A woman is only fertile 5 or (6?) days in a month. For about 3 weeks out of about a month a woman is not fertile. Is the human bio-unit a women or not a women? ....What say you Pavlov's Robot?

:) Except that the definition "produces ova" doesn't specify within what interval they need to be produced - once a month would seem to be sufficient to meet that requirement. And "can" would seem to cover those women who are on birth control pills.

But of maybe some related interest, I note that men seem to have an easier row to hoe (natch) in that department - "male: produces sperm" - as well:

Testes produce 200 to 300 million spermatozoa daily. However, only about half or 100 million of these become viable sperm.

[Steersman]

Makes me think of someone...

[.img]http://files.explosm.net/comics/Kris/fe ... g?t=6B4C26[/img]

:) Though I wonder what it is that makes you think I have no feelings, no emotions ...

I am a Steersman. Hath
not a Steersman eyes? hath not a Steersman hands, organs,
dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with
the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as
a Landlubber is? If you prick us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison
us, do we not die? ....

[With apologies to Will - whoever he/they might have been ....]

[HunnyBunny]

... doesn't deserve to banned or relegated to his "safe space". Neither did JimHabegger.

I disagree. Regardless of a person's motives or intentions, or even whether it's his fault or not, if the discussion is being flooded by arguments with him or discussions about him, I don't see it as a threat to freedom of speech, to Wonderize him. I see it as a threat to freedom of speech to continue to let his words monopolize the discussion. Wonderizing a person does not interfere at all with him saying what he wants to say, or with anyone who wants to, reading what he says and responding to it.

The only reason I didn't Wonderize myself sooner than I did was because I honestly thought that I should leave that up to the owner.

hey Jimhabegger. You live in China, do you find the mainland Chinese more than just a bit odd? Rude? I live in Hong Kong, and although I find the local Cantonese frustrating, any encounter with mainland China is totally exasperating, on a 'did you really just do that? REALLY?' level. I cannot imagine living in China proper. Fuck cultural relativity.

I have just spent the day at a local theme park, incredibly popular with mainlanders. Never again. Excuse me I need more gin.

[didymos]

Found a good twitter account to follow:

Also, stop talking to and about Steersman, you idiots.

[Brive1987]

Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh my god. :o

Alex has a new post up. His first for the Orbit.

He is comparing the white bread male speaker lineup at an Orange County Con to the horrors of his old UK church. As always, the only lense thru which Alex can peer is one that points straight back at him.

The advert is unfortunate. But shit. It warmed the cockles to see such an unapologetic, un-PC missive.

http://i.imgur.com/GlqBBtA.jpg

I find it amusing that someone seeking her break thru moment by self identifying as "Scibabe" gets triggered by PR duly noting her selling point.

http://i.imgur.com/3QtvIRq.jpg

Now why the hell would they do that?

http://i.imgur.com/Hp168Kn.jpg


I betcha they don't even have a harassment policy. Let me hit pause for a moment.

.........................

Ah. They do, but it's one of those short sensible ones that says 'don't be a dick, and if we decide you are we'll boot you'

They may not have any female identifying speakers - but they do feature two "brains, body, both" candidates having a Comfort-discomforting banana fight on their homepage.

http://i.imgur.com/85P3gLg.jpg

[Brive1987]

Oops. I guess scibabe (by definition) identifies non male.

[jimhabegger]

Lsuoma, I've posted some thoughts in my closet about Wonderizing.

[jimhabegger]

hey Jimhabegger. You live in China, do you find the mainland Chinese more than just a bit odd? ... any encounter with mainland China is totally exasperating, on a 'did you really just do that? REALLY?' level.

That happens to me many times a day, most days, in fact every day that I go outside of my home. In many ways though, people here are sweet, kind, peaceful and cute.

[Sunder]

The nameless members of the Milwaukee Pride Parade Board of Directors stripped legendary rights activist Miriam Ben-Shalom of her honored spot as Grand Marshall of the June 12, 2016 “Heroes of Pride” event after men monitoring her Facebook page noticed women had made posts there that were critical of the idea of heterosexual “male lesbian

Never question the trans.
Someone should start a list of those people who have been othered by the trans. I notice Randi Lee Harper has recently joined the ranks. Fuck it I might even start a list myself.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/201 ... ll-honors/

I have a hard time being sympathetic to the TERFs either as they just fall back on blaming men categorically.

Feminism just sucks on all sides. They really deserve all the misery they bring to each others' lives.

[Sunder]

http://i.imgur.com/3QtvIRq.jpg

Literally the first person on the lineup is Mr. Deity, which is also not his actual name.

I see we have another "Skepchick" type selling themselves in a lowbrow manner and getting pissed over their own choice to do so.