In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

Old subthreads
SM1957
.
.
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:01 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5581

Post by SM1957 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:52 am

I see Bedfordshire Police are getting more diversity in their ranks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england- ... s-40975669

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5582

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:06 am

Excellent defense of free speech, with a warning of the alarming erosion of support for it:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ech-215508

windy
.
.
Posts: 2130
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:41 am
Location: Tom of Finland-land
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5583

Post by windy » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:54 am

Sulman wrote: I do not understand the mentality of these people. In darker moments I think they deserved to be conquered and enslaved.
Maybe he should worry more about the type of foreign racist that runs around stabbing people:
Finland's National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) confirmed on Saturday that the previous day's knife attack in Turku is being investigated as murder and attempted murder with a terrorist intent.

The main suspect is an 18-year-old Moroccan man. He remains hospitalised in critical condition after being shot in the hip by police.

Police have also released more information about the victims. The two were killed were Finnish citizens. The eight injured include one Swede, one Briton and one Italian citizen. One of the wounded is under age 18.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5584

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:57 am

TransParent Express sees nazis everywhere:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/transparen ... alt-right/

Seems the chicken little gene runs in the family.

Billie from Ockham
.
.
Posts: 5470
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:40 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5585

Post by Billie from Ockham » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:57 am

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Excellent defense of free speech, with a warning of the alarming erosion of support for it:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ech-215508
"Excellent"? I do not agree.
{snip} The general legal standard now is that if a public college opens itself up to outside speakers, it cannot engage in viewpoint discrimination. Most cases of prior restraint censorship will fail in court under this standard. But in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy in Charlottesville, judges may look differently at these facts.

And that should trouble us: If a court decides in favor of the prior restraints, it could set a precedent that would do considerable harm to the free speech rights of speakers, students and faculty far beyond Spencer.

But what happens in a court of law is one thing. What happens in the court of public opinion is perhaps more important. {snip}
When people say that the "court of public opinion" is "perhaps more important" than a "court of law," they are a problem.

That middle paragraph is the real story. We're looking at threats to the First Amendment that might be worse than the erosion that we've seen of the Fourth (which is continuing under Trump and Sessions with the resurgence of civil forfeiture). The third paragraph above is a distraction from what actually matters. It's an example of social media demanding that we take it seriously.

dogen
.
.
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5586

Post by dogen » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:23 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:Just heading out to Salem, OR, for the you-know-what.

See y'all later...
Witch trial?
There trial.

http://cs5.pikabu.ru/images/big_size_co ... 539562.jpg

CommanderTuvok
.
.
Posts: 3734
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5587

Post by CommanderTuvok » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:26 am

Kirbmarc wrote:
Steersman wrote: Rather inconsistent with the charge of "anti-semitic", unless one somehow wants to make a conspiracy theory of some kind of a false-flag operation. Like I say, "does not compute".
The Huffington Post likely didn't intend it to be anti-semitic. They're morons, though.
What's that phrase beloved of PZ Myers....something about "intent", and "magic".

:lol:

Barbie's Boyfriend
.
.
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:29 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5588

Post by Barbie's Boyfriend » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:30 am

Lsuoma wrote:Just heading out to Salem, OR, for the you-know-what.

See y'all later...
Legal Weed ??? :obscene-smokingjoint: :obscene-smokingpimp: :obscene-smokingred: :obscene-smokingsombrero: :obscene-smokingweed:

SM1957
.
.
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:01 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5589

Post by SM1957 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:59 am

Let's have statues for the brave Black Loyalists who fought against the slavers http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/122051

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5590

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:30 am

Barbie's Boyfriend wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:Just heading out to Salem, OR, for the you-know-what.

See y'all later...
Legal Weed ??? :obscene-smokingjoint: :obscene-smokingpimp: :obscene-smokingred: :obscene-smokingsombrero: :obscene-smokingweed:
More likely something moon related I think...


Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5591

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:51 am

Sulman wrote: I do not understand the mentality of these people. In darker moments I think they deserved to be conquered and enslaved.
If you look at the replies, the guy seems obsessed with asking people how many nights they've spent in Turku. I don't really understand why.

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5592

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:32 am

There a recent Reason podcast - giving a legal perspective as to why Google may have found it necessary to fire that Damone guy.

https://soundcloud.com/reasonmag/hostil ... memo-drama

Basically - if anyone had complained about feeling unsafe due to his comments - then they may have been able to make a case that they were being forced to work in an 'Hostile' environment (which has a legal definition). Once precedent has been set in the courts - it becomes cheaper (and less hassle) to simply cover any potentially disruptive behaviour in the Code of Conduct. And speaking the truth or having good intentions would not be a valid defense for violating the CoC.

So peoples feelings do matter after all - if you are the right sort of person.

Which is not to say that Google's management culture bears no responsibility - they could be in a feedback loop with the workplace laws. With enough ambiguity so that neither side has to take responsibility.

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5593

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 am

Fuck my editing skills.

Still sticking with Damone though.

Guest_936d3dec

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5594

Post by Guest_936d3dec » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:57 am

Yeah, Walter Olson, Jonathan Rauch and Eugene Volokh were all over this about 20 years ago.

www2.law.ucla edu/volokh/harass/breadth.htm

usatoday com/story/opinion/2017/08/09/googles-attack-dissenting-speech-normal-walter-olson-column/549536001/

Regardless, reason itself, has been wishy washy on Damore. They've mostly wanted to point out how important it is that Google and all employers can fire anyone for any reason whatsoever.

I suspect they felt this way about broads, coloreds, spics, crips, joos.

That's also how they've handled Google's using the DNS transfer system to actively go out and cripple Daily Stormer. It's important to let Google and companies flout these things.

If Google's decision is dumb, the market will correct it.

Buh-bye Google!

feathers
.
.
Posts: 6113
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:12 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5595

Post by feathers » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:29 am

MarcusAu wrote:Fuck my editing skills.

Still sticking with Damone though.
Damone is halfway to yoghurt.

http://s.thestreet.com/files/tsc/v2008/ ... 01e7e6.png

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5596

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:44 am

Guest_936d3dec wrote:Yeah, Walter Olson, Jonathan Rauch and Eugene Volokh were all over this about 20 years ago.

www2.law.ucla edu/volokh/harass/breadth.htm

usatoday com/story/opinion/2017/08/09/googles-attack-dissenting-speech-normal-walter-olson-column/549536001/

Regardless, reason itself, has been wishy washy on Damore. They've mostly wanted to point out how important it is that Google and all employers can fire anyone for any reason whatsoever.

I suspect they felt this way about broads, coloreds, spics, crips, joos.

That's also how they've handled Google's using the DNS transfer system to actively go out and cripple Daily Stormer. It's important to let Google and companies flout these things.

If Google's decision is dumb, the market will correct it.

Buh-bye Google!

Cheers - thanks for doing the grunt work.

The USA Today article covers much the same details as the podcast.

Links below - in now clickable form:

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/harass/breadth.htm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 549536001/

ThreeFlangedJavis
.
.
Posts: 1332
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:13 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5597

Post by ThreeFlangedJavis » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:56 am

deLurch wrote:
Bhurzum wrote: :clap:
I will say this. Had I been duped into attending that rally, and had I assumed it was a free speech rally, given the number of Nazi flags and other identititarian symbols I have seen on the videos, (that I have only learned about recently) I would have noped the fuck out of there.

I think the bulk of the free speech rallies we have seen were primarily attended by free speech advocates.

But the Charlottesville event surprised me in terms of actually being on of the rare events that was dominated by white identitaries, irrespective of what flag or symbol they fly under.
The event itself may have been primarily a white identitarian thing. That is not really relevant from the point of view of the self-styled patriots who claim to pitch up at events where Antifa are expected to "protest" in order to defend the constitutional right of EVERYONE to free speech. EVERYONE includes Nazis and anarcho-communists, so there wouldn't be much point in them fucking off at first sight of a Nazi or Commie. The media are being very dishonest and I see a lot of people buying into it. They have the Antifa vs Nazi narrative going, whereas I think the truth is more along the lines of Antifa/BLM/Black Bloc vs a few Nazis and anyone else who may not have given Trump sufficiently dirty looks. Antifa needs to be opposed regardless of who they are protesting.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5598

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:00 am

In addition to that as has already been pointed out Antifa types are going to call you a Nazi whether you identify as one or not, so what's the incentive to kick out the bonafide neonazis who show up?

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5599

Post by deLurch » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:31 am

Sunder wrote:In addition to that as has already been pointed out Antifa types are going to call you a Nazi whether you identify as one or not, so what's the incentive to kick out the bonafide neonazis who show up?
Because when the public sees nazi flags, they will start to believe Antifa's claims about who they are attacking.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5600

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:36 am

Hemant's commenters are once again trying out the argument that tearing down Confederate statues is about PUNISHING TRAITORS. How any self-styled liberal can swallow let alone regurgitate such tripe is beyond me.

Maybe there's an explanation though. Though many on the left have been supportive of such modern "traitors" as Snowden and Manning for ratting out the US govt.'s spying on its citizenry, they did so at a time when a liberal was President. And they've clearly turned on the likes of Julian Assange for ratting on bad Dem behavior which they think has enabled Trump. But with Trump leading the govt. now they're also not prepared to pledge full allegiance either.

Basically the modern left does not have the first clue how they should feel with regard to loyalty or patriotism. Things were so much simpler back in the Bush days.

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5601

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:50 am

I keep thinking of England's Civil War.

It was the Royalists vs the Parlimentarians (or the Cavaliers vs the Roundheads, if you prefer). And there may be monuments up to both if one cares to look.

But I'm not sure who were the good guys and who were the traitors.

I suppose if you look at it from the perspective of those who were not the ruling class it did not make that much difference either way.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5602

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:02 pm

More thoughts: It could just be an insincere attempt to rebuff the concerns of others that, after the Confederate statues are done with, other more popular figures like Washington and Jefferson will be the next targets.

Antifa types have every reason to deny this. That's a PR battle they could potentially lose unless they go at it very gradually. Now's not the time.

But it puts them in a very strange spot, where they're essentially saying "it's not the fact that these men fought for the right to own people as property that bothers us, it's that they resisted the US government. That's why they have to go." Excuse me, what?


Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5604

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:22 pm

Matt's rubbing some egg in Hemant's face over his saying the founding fathers didn't give a damn about slavery.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5605

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:36 pm

Sunder wrote:Hemant's commenters are once again trying out the argument that tearing down Confederate statues is about PUNISHING TRAITORS. How any self-styled liberal can swallow let alone regurgitate such tripe is beyond me.

Maybe there's an explanation though. Though many on the left have been supportive of such modern "traitors" as Snowden and Manning for ratting out the US govt.'s spying on its citizenry, they did so at a time when a liberal was President. And they've clearly turned on the likes of Julian Assange for ratting on bad Dem behavior which they think has enabled Trump. But with Trump leading the govt. now they're also not prepared to pledge full allegiance either.

Basically the modern left does not have the first clue how they should feel with regard to loyalty or patriotism. Things were so much simpler back in the Bush days.
Hemant's such a lazy-ass blogger and lazy-ass thinker. He's a willfully ignorant brat who shoots off his ignorant gob.

I wish John Houseman was still around, to chew out Mr. Mehta's ass a la THE PAPER CHASE. In lieu, I chewed him out for claiming the Founding Fathers "didn't give a damn" about slavery:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... 3476798398

shoutinghorse
.
.
Posts: 2649
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:01 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5606

Post by shoutinghorse » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:38 pm

MarcusAu wrote:I keep thinking of England's Civil War.

It was the Royalists vs the Parlimentarians (or the Cavaliers vs the Roundheads, if you prefer). And there may be monuments up to both if one cares to look.

But I'm not sure who were the good guys and who were the traitors.

I suppose if you look at it from the perspective of those who were not the ruling class it did not make that much difference either way.

When Charles II was restored to the throne the first thing he did was have Oliver Cromwells body exhumed, hung and beheaded and his head put on a spike.

Not that he held any grudges of course.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5607

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:40 pm

Service Dog wrote:Lol. "Heil Hitler"

http://i.imgur.com/uWZb4Ki.jpg
Change "bikes" to "kikes" and that'd be perfect.

Lsuoma
Fascist Tit
Posts: 10618
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:58 pm
Location: Punggye-ri
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5608

Post by Lsuoma » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:44 pm


ConcentratedH2O, OM
.
.
Posts: 6446
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:51 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5609

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Change "bikes" to "kikes" and that'd be perfect.
Hey, hey, HEY!!!

Can you keep your anti-semitism to yourself, please? This is the Pit, not HuffPo.

MacGruberKnows
.
.
Posts: 1768
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:27 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5610

Post by MacGruberKnows » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:47 pm

Service Dog wrote:Lol. "Heil Hitler"

http://i.imgur.com/uWZb4Ki.jpg
88 seconds on a bike lane. Fucking bike nazi's.

Mr. X, Indeed
.
.
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:52 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5611

Post by Mr. X, Indeed » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:57 pm

Service Dog wrote:Lol. "Heil Hitler"

http://i.imgur.com/uWZb4Ki.jpg
I'm hoping that's at 14th.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5612

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:00 pm

Jerry's doing the determinism thing again. Here's a comment exchange:
We’d lock up hurricanes if we could but not for punishment. One chooses criminal behaviour like one choses cancer.
I respectfully disagree. A few years back a neighbor of mine went to prison for running a Ponzi scheme. It didn’t start out that way; originally it was a mortgage-backed investment fund. But when the mortgage market crashed and the fund went into the red, he made a conscious decision to keep taking new investments and run a shell game with them to make the fund look profitable on paper. If the word “choice” means anything at all, he chose to become a criminal in a way that nobody would choose to become a cancer victim.
I can kind of appreciate the unique perspective Jerry's determinism gives him on issues like Charlottesville, but it clearly doesn't gel with most peoples' sense of justice at all. "Oh they can't help themselves" comes across as both condescending and deliberately minimizing culpability, and I don't really see a way to sell it as otherwise.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5613

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:04 pm

Also I can't help but be see shades of Hensley in the "just like cancer" argument. My kleptopmania is just like your terminal disease in the same way that my getting rumprustled on twitter is just the same as your PTSD from being shot at by insurgents.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5614

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:11 pm

More nazi-tolerating discussion:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2 ... tolerance/

Because that's all we're gonna talk about, non-stop, until trump says something even stupider.

And he will.

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3058
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5615

Post by Hunt » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:13 pm

Sunder wrote:More thoughts: It could just be an insincere attempt to rebuff the concerns of others that, after the Confederate statues are done with, other more popular figures like Washington and Jefferson will be the next targets.

Antifa types have every reason to deny this. That's a PR battle they could potentially lose unless they go at it very gradually. Now's not the time.

But it puts them in a very strange spot, where they're essentially saying "it's not the fact that these men fought for the right to own people as property that bothers us, it's that they resisted the US government. That's why they have to go." Excuse me, what?
Yes, that's an extremely lame argument, ie the distinction between "nation building" and "nation destroying" is like an argument put together with duct tape. They argue that the moral panic won't spread to statues to Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington, etc. is "slippery slope" and won't happen. Wrong. Does anyone seriously think, noting how crazy the left has become, that this can't possibly end with the destruction of the Jefferson Memorial, etc.? If so, they're just not paying attention, or realize the mechanics of moral panics.

For the record, I'm pro- getting rid of the Confederate statues that were erected in the early 20th century as an obvious FU to southern blacks. To me, those are historically illegitimate. What as is erected with an FU attitude (!) may be removed with an FU attitude. However, the "where does it end" question is still valid. I think it has to be done on a case-by-case basis.

Kirbmarc
.
.
Posts: 10577
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5616

Post by Kirbmarc » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:17 pm

Sunder wrote:More thoughts: It could just be an insincere attempt to rebuff the concerns of others that, after the Confederate statues are done with, other more popular figures like Washington and Jefferson will be the next targets.

Antifa types have every reason to deny this. That's a PR battle they could potentially lose unless they go at it very gradually. Now's not the time.

But it puts them in a very strange spot, where they're essentially saying "it's not the fact that these men fought for the right to own people as property that bothers us, it's that they resisted the US government. That's why they have to go." Excuse me, what?
There's been talks among Buzzfeed writers and the far-left in the US about targeting monuments of other "racist white supremacists" like Washington or Jefferson. There's even been suggestions of targeting Mount Rushmore.

Personally, as someone who's not American, I have no emotional involvement in American monuments. But I can think of some analogical examples.

Ataturk wasn't perfect. He was authoritarian, and while it's doubtful he was the main instigator of the Armenian genocide, or even one of the instigators, he surely did nothing to stop it, and might have supported it, albeit indirectly. Yet his ideals of secularism are what made the man important in the history of Turkey, and removing statues of the guy doesn't improve Turkey, if anything it gives the theocrats one less cultural obstacle for their Kulturkampf.

I think that the same thing is true for US monuments, at least for those of the Founding Fathers or of other historically significant presidents. Monuments are valued for the principles they symbolize rather than just for the person which lends their face to the statues.

There was another Buzzfeed article which was about removing statues of Gandhi because of some racist things the guy wrote in his youth. I don't know whether the article was a joke or not, but it shows how far the slippery slope can go.

So I can understand why those who want to remove the Confederacy general statues are trying to use one of those principles (patriotism) to justify and limit their action. Because if the only people who deserve monuments are those without any flaws whatsoever according to today's standards you'll soon find yourself without any monuments.

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5617

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:19 pm

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Change "bikes" to "kikes" and that'd be perfect.
Hey, hey, HEY!!!

Can you keep your anti-semitism to yourself, please? This is the Pit, not HuffPo.
Goodbye shrooms!
Goodbye shrooms!
Goodbye shrooms!

Matt Cavanaugh
.
.
Posts: 12371
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:38 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5618

Post by Matt Cavanaugh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:21 pm

shoutinghorse wrote: When Charles II was restored to the throne the first thing he did was have Oliver Cromwells body exhumed, hung and beheaded and his head put on a spike.
Which is pretty much the process for making lutefisk.

Hunt
.
.
Posts: 3058
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5619

Post by Hunt » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:27 pm

Kirbmarc wrote:
So I can understand why those who want to remove the Confederacy general statues are trying to use one of those principles (patriotism) to justify and limit their action. Because if the only people who deserve monuments are those without any flaws whatsoever according to today's standards you'll soon find yourself without any monuments.
The decision to destroy monuments has to be tempered by the realization that moral panics can go that far. The nation builder/nation destroyer, patriot/traitor argument WILL fail, since it's nothing more than a strawman.

Bhurzum
Brassy, uncouth, henpecked meathead
Posts: 3960
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:08 am
Location: Lurking in a dumpster
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5620

Post by Bhurzum » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:45 pm

New SyeTen...


katamari Damassi
.
.
Posts: 5379
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:32 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5621

Post by katamari Damassi » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:47 pm

Hunt wrote:
Kirbmarc wrote:
So I can understand why those who want to remove the Confederacy general statues are trying to use one of those principles (patriotism) to justify and limit their action. Because if the only people who deserve monuments are those without any flaws whatsoever according to today's standards you'll soon find yourself without any monuments.
The decision to destroy monuments has to be tempered by the realization that moral panics can go that far. The nation builder/nation destroyer, patriot/traitor argument WILL fail, since it's nothing more than a strawman.
When we join the Caliphate, the statues will have to come down anyway. This is just giving us a head start.

rayshul
.
.
Posts: 4871
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:00 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5622

Post by rayshul » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:50 pm

I'm on gab now. Anyone else on gab?

Bhurzum
Brassy, uncouth, henpecked meathead
Posts: 3960
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:08 am
Location: Lurking in a dumpster
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5623

Post by Bhurzum » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:08 pm

rayshul wrote:I'm on gab now. Anyone else on gab?
Is "gab" code for something...saucy?

;)

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5624

Post by deLurch » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:11 pm

Hunt wrote:Yes, that's an extremely lame argument, ie the distinction between "nation building" and "nation destroying" is like an argument put together with duct tape. They argue that the moral panic won't spread to statues to Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington, etc. is "slippery slope" and won't happen. Wrong. Does anyone seriously think, noting how crazy the left has become, that this can't possibly end with the destruction of the Jefferson Memorial, etc.? If so, they're just not paying attention, or realize the mechanics of moral panics.

For the record, I'm pro- getting rid of the Confederate statues that were erected in the early 20th century as an obvious FU to southern blacks. To me, those are historically illegitimate. What as is erected with an FU attitude (!) may be removed with an FU attitude. However, the "where does it end" question is still valid. I think it has to be done on a case-by-case basis.
Case and point. John C. Breckinridge was both a US Vice President & a confederate general. It is now being taken down and moved to a veterans memorial area.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lexington- ... monuments/

However I do have to say, moving the monuments does not appear to be a decent middle ground. But I suspect that will not be sufficient in the long run.

Sunder
.
.
Posts: 3857
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:12 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5625

Post by Sunder » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:16 pm

The main issue is that moral crusaders can't simply give up the crusade. Move the monuments, they'll start attacking wherever they are now, even if it's not a public space. Destroy all those, they'll go after something else. It's less a slippery slope and more a runaway train.

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5626

Post by deLurch » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:19 pm

Murdoch Murdoch is back. Laying the pipes of humor.


Guest_936d3dec

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5627

Post by Guest_936d3dec » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:24 pm

Not all monuments matter.

There are quite a few civil war monuments apparently placed in 1910s - 60s as a finger to civil rights. I can't say I have a huge issue with having those removed.

On the other hand, I do understand the calls to move monuments out of parks and to various museums, but that solution just seems to delay the day those museums are told (or on their own) get rid of the monuments, so that doesn't seem entirely workable either.

However, I'm not ready to defend all monuments as being equivalent to the Jefferson Memorial or the Buddhas of Bamiyan.

In Seattle, the mayor, who may be a child abuser, wants to get rid of a privately owned (for sale) statue of Lenin that I think most people first feel represents wtf, then ironic laughter as well as a memorial to the Confederacy in a private cemetery .

I think he wants to do that to deflect from the constant calls for him to resign.
thestranger com/slog/2017/08/15/25350580/seattle-human-rights-commission-calls-on-mayor-ed-murray-to-resign

Who knows, could be Murray is being butt fucked by the system.

AndrewV69
.
.
Posts: 7957
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:52 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5628

Post by AndrewV69 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:30 pm

rayshul wrote:I'm on gab now. Anyone else on gab?
I am. What is your id?

Keating
.
.
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:18 pm
Location: South of anteater guy
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5629

Post by Keating » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:38 pm

MarcusAu wrote:I keep thinking of England's Civil War.
There's a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Westminster Palace.

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5630

Post by deLurch » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:43 pm

It appears that Scented Nectar is on Gab and has acrewed a bit of a following for the size of the platform.

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5631

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:44 pm

AndrewV69 wrote:
rayshul wrote:I'm on gab now. Anyone else on gab?
I am. What is your id?
Id? Be careful with that...


SM1957
.
.
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:01 am
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5632

Post by SM1957 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:46 pm

As an outsider looking at America, there is only one question to be asked.

Are you all out of your minds?

MarcusAu
.
.
Posts: 7069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:49 am
Location: Llareggub
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5633

Post by MarcusAu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:48 pm

Keating wrote:
MarcusAu wrote:I keep thinking of England's Civil War.
There's a statue of Oliver Cromwell outside Westminster Palace.
And there's a bust of Charles I across the road on Westminster Abbey keeping an eye on him

http://westminster-abbey.org/__data/ass ... yright.jpg

deLurch
.
.
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:11 am

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5634

Post by deLurch » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:53 pm

SM1957 wrote:As an outsider looking at America, there is only one question to be asked.
Are you all out of your minds?
It appears that way to me too.

It might be fairly accurate to state that we are in the midst of a moral panic being fed by those with political ambitions.

Keating
.
.
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:18 pm
Location: South of anteater guy
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5635

Post by Keating » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:54 pm


MacGruberKnows
.
.
Posts: 1768
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:27 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5636

Post by MacGruberKnows » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:59 pm

Keating wrote:
Nazi sympathizer/enabler. I demand that you remove that post. Or at least put it in a museum.

Guest_936d3dec

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5637

Post by Guest_936d3dec » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:59 pm

Maybe an alternative is to place other statues close by the "offending statue but statue that has a real historical reason for existing" to help tell a more complete story.

So for instance when the Vietnam Memorial Wall was created, there was controversy that it looked like a tombstone, wasn't a statue, made it seem we lost (narrator: we did lose), etc., but the result was the Three Soldiers added nearby, and made to look as if they were coming out of a jungle and looking at the wall, and the result of the two combined is an even more powerful memorial (imho).
wikipedia org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers
Of the memorial, the architect has suggested,

'I see the wall as a kind of ocean, a sea of sacrifice that is overwhelming and nearly incomprehensible in the sweep of names. I place these figures upon the shore of that sea, gazing upon it, standing vigil before it, reflecting the human face of it, the human heart.

The portrayal of the figures is consistent with history. They wear the uniform and carry the equipment of war; they are young. The contrast between the innocence of their youth and the weapons of war underscores the poignancy of their sacrifice. There is about them the physical contact and sense of unity that bespeaks the bonds of love and sacrifice that is the nature of men at war. And yet they are each alone. Their strength and their vulnerability are both evident. Their true heroism lies in these bonds of loyalty in the face of their awareness and their vulnerability.'[4]

The statue and the Wall appear to interact with each other, with the soldiers looking on in solemn tribute at the names of their fallen comrades. Noted sculptor Jay Hall Carpenter, Hart's assistant on the project, explains the sculpture was positioned especially for that effect: "We carried a full-size mockup of the soldiers around the memorial site trying many locations until we hit upon the perfect spot. It was here that the sculpture appeared to be looking over a sea of the fallen
Soon after a memorial commemorating the service and losses of nurses in Vietnam was put up nearby.

wikipedia org/wiki/Vietnam_Women%27s_Memorial

And the dog handlers wanted their memorial to the service dogs

wikipedia org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Dogs%27s_Memorial

Just last year a statue to the me so horny me love you long time girls was put up on the mall.

wikipedia org/wiki/Vietnam_Me_So_Horny_Me_Love_You_Long_Time_Girls%27s_Memorial

Today I am left to understand it was Transgender Americans that played the decisive roles in the Battle of Huế and that they will be petitioning for a statue soon.

Guest_936d3dec

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5638

Post by Guest_936d3dec » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Not that anyone cares, but the Vietnam Memorial Wall, the three soldiers and the nurses memorial are all fantastically great(, if you ask me).

free thoughtpolice
.
.
Posts: 10313
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:27 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5639

Post by free thoughtpolice » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:10 pm

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Keating wrote:
Nazi sympathizer/enabler. I demand that you remove that post. Or at least put it in a museum.
Racist song written by Robbie Robertson, a Canadian Mohawk first nations person.
True fact: the primary slaveholders in early and pre-Canada were members of our aboriginal community, so maybe that may have figured into Robertson's apparent sympathy for the Confederate losers. :ugeek:

Service Dog
.
.
Posts: 4543
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:52 pm
Contact:

Re: In 2017 Idiocracy is a Documentary

#5640

Post by Service Dog » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:00 pm

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Service Dog wrote:Lol. "Heil Hitler"

http://i.imgur.com/uWZb4Ki.jpg

88 seconds on a bike lane. Fucking bike nazi's.
Bicycle safety is important. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.

Locked